There appear to be different viewpoints in the Yankees front office about how to approach the deadline, Jon Heyman of todaysknuckleball.com writes. GM Brian Cashman may actually be more inclined to sell some assets than is the ownership and upper-level management, per the report.
After a long look at that situation, Heyman goes on to provide some other notes from around the game:
- Some within the Yankees think there’s a very good chance that Aroldis Chapman will be around for the long-term, whether that comes about via extension or a re-signing over the winter. Meanwhile, a team official says the price on Andrew Miller is so high that the odds he’ll be dealt are miniscule.
- The Pirates could sell off a few short-term pieces if the club isn’t in contention come late July, but a broader sale isn’t expected. Heyman suggests Francisco Liriano, Mark Melancon, David Freese, and perhaps Tony Watson as plausible trade chips. You could probably also throw names like Matt Joyce, Sean Rodriguez, and Juan Nicasio into the mix as well.
- Julio Teheran may be pitching his way out of a trade for the Braves, says Heyman. Rival executives suggest that they see a trade as unlikely, and also gave some endorsement of his value. Heyman cites three who believe Teheran is a better trade piece than Sonny Gray of the Athletics at this stage.
- There’s plenty of demand on the starting pitching market, which is perhaps one reason to think that some arms could end up being pried loose. Heyman lists the Orioles, Red Sox, Dodgers, Tigers, Rangers, Blue Jays, Astros, Mariners, and Yankees as looking for rotation pieces.
- The Marlins are also reputed to be looking for starting pitching, with Drew Pomeranz on the wish list. But a Miami source tells Heyman that the team finds it “hard to trust Pomeranz” given his relatively thin track record.
- The Padres “at least took a look” at Jose Reyes before he signed with the Mets, per Heyman. It isn’t clear what sort of opportunity San Diego was interested in offering, but it’s not surprising to hear that the organization is looking for low-cost ways to seek value.
Replace Watson with Feliz. I really doubt the Pirates will trade Watson this year given how many pieces they are set to lose.
Does Brinson from the Rangers get Vizcaino straight up ?
Jesus Christ please
That’s too much for Vizcaino. Brinson has 30/30 potential (or so they say), and giving him up for a good reliever/closer would most likely be an overpay.
Agreed, even as a Braves fan that is high hopes. But Rodney is off the table and Doolittle is hurt, market just got thinner.
I don’t about Brinson… Maybe if TEX gets really excited, but still probably not.
I’d do Viz and D. Peterson for Brinson. That’d probably work or maybe one of our pitching prospects.
Oh lord! Some people are going to see that “Heyman cites three rival execs believe Teheran is a better trade piece than Sonny Gray” and go crazy. They are about to start the FIP and xFIP argument again and bring up his peripherals. How could anyone say a #4 starter in Teheran is a better trade piece than Sonny Gray? Just because rival execs of a MLB team says that, does not mean it’s true lol. I see the numbers and just do not understand it. I can’t believe they would say something like that! Let the fun begin! Lol
The peripherals for both are similar but Gray gives up fewer homers, he does play in a pitchers paradise though. Gray’s value is at its lowest in his career Teheran’s value is at its highest not sure why you are spazzing out. I don’t see any thing saying the execs think those circumstances will stay long term.
I hardly call that spazzing out. I was being sarcastic. Teheran and his peripherals argument happens almost everyday
Teheran has given up 2 more homers in 28 more innings than Gray. Gray also pitches in pitchers paradise like you said.
I was responding to Niekro. I guess he deleted himself or his comment got deleted
I see but yeah you will get some people in here saying it is not possible for Teheran to be valued more than Gray even though Gray is in the worst stretch of his career and Teheran might be in the best stretch.
It was moderated have no idea why I thought maybe a word was triggering it but didn’t notice any thing in it that would. It just vanished.
The article has to do with the A’s are not trading Gray. Beane has said many times he has no need to trade him. Those same 3 GMs probably tried to low ball Beane and he hung up on them. Gray is needed by the A’s with the great staff of young starters they need a anchor like Gray.
Yea I know right. You are absolutely correct good sir. Teheran’s value has skyrocketed and Gray’s has dropped, but some people will talk and try to make you think that it’s the other way around
It does that to me all the time. Really makes me mad, especially if I write something pretty long. I’ll have no idea what word I used for it to get moderated. Frustrating!
Gray also pitches in the AL and a much tougher division.
Teheran is good, but not as good as he is being right now. Gray is good, hes better than he is right now.
Teheran will get a strong package, but if you expect Moncada, you’re going to be very disappointed unless Dombrowski goes full Dave Stewart.
I’ll suggest Devers, Swihart and Sam Travis.
If you’re a Braves fan and that isn’t even the slightest bit appealing, your standards are too high. If you’re not a Braves fan and that seems like way too much, you’re undervaluing Teheran.
Not a braves fan… that doesn’t seem like enough given the market (or lack thereof).
It was only a bad month (may) he was bad, but yeah.. I think Gray.. Even now would have more trade value than Teheran. AL proven, velocity, pitch repertoire, still 3 full seasons of team control, Vandy U.. The guy just screams number 1…
Is Swihart done as a catcher? He holds value as an OF but not nearly as much. Teheran still has immense value to the Braves because he is only 25. I think Benintendi and Swihart would be the best starting point, unless some surprise team puts pitchers on the market Teheran is going to have a high premium. Seems to be more buyers than sellers at this point.
Do you know if that Phillies pitcher that lost his eye is going to continue pitching?
One thing about it we will never know because Coppy will laugh at that proposal as I would
Just left comment regarding Gray and u are perfectly correct IMO. Think Dombrowski is monitoring Gray all the way to see what Beane is looking for, without having to sacrifice any of the top 3.. Excepting maybe Devers unless he has to and possibly Swihart as you mentioned. Issue? swihart is hurt and won’t be back until maybe end of the month.
Also think will cost more than another middle prospect, such as out for the season Travis, but some MLB kid they have and a decent one.. Maybe Shaw and if Boston won’t part with him? It would cost one of the fireballing pitchers.. Kopech/Espinoza.
Gray won’t come cheap.
Is ERA+ League adjusted as well as park adjusted? Because Teheran has a higher ERA+ this season than any season Gray has ever had, and only 8 points separate them for career.
So if it does take league into factor Teheran is still doing better than Gray or very close to him.
I didn’t take it that way. Seems to me that they were comparing which one was a better trade piece at this moment. It says those 3 execs say that Teheran has more trade value at this moment (which he does) whether Beane wants to trade Gray or not. It also doesn’t say anything about Gray not being available. So you saying that that article has more to do with the A’s not trading Gray is not true. It states that they have shown no willingness to move Gray. It also states that he hasn’t been at his best and they wouldn’t get what they want. It’s not because Beane wouldn’t want to move him. Its most likely because with Gray’s value being the lowest it has ever been, Beane wouldn’t recieve what he wanted. It also states that some rivals believe he will consider it.
Haha Johnsilver you said Gray has more value than Teheran right now. Then you think you can get Gray and Teheran without giving up any of your top 3 prospects. You are delusional. I can’t take anything you say seriously right now. You just say stuff to say it
Taking into account you probably never pay attention to ANY MiLB games, nor watch games any other teams play.. Except the braves…
Devers is currently BA’s #18 prospect and MLB’s #17
My statement of “one of the top 3” was because IMO, Benentendi, Moncada and Espinoza are better and are also currently top 35 in BA’s rankings.
Including a MLB player in Shaw, or another TOP kid in Kopech/ Espinoza, Swihart (who can still catch if someone wants btw), along with Devers and possibly another low level piece is a fair price for *GRAY* only.
OH Brixton so now it isn’t his FIP and xFIP. Now its league and divisions. At least you came up with something new. I give you that. Their isn’t anything abt that division that is any different from others. He was beating up on the Astros, Mariners and Rangers 3 years ago. Last year he beat up the Rangers for the first half, Angels, Mariners and Astros at home (Astros sucked on the road last year). Im not sure what Astros record was against the A’s in Oakland was last year (may be wrong abt Houston despite how horrible they were on the road). This year he would have been beating up the Astros at the beginning, Angels and Mariners now. He did what he had to do. Which good pitchers do, but don’t give me that division stuff.
Yall said the same abt Cole Hamels pitching in the AL. That the AL is a tougher league. He wouldn’t do good in the AL because his numbers against the AL weren’t good (and need I remind you that Hamels was older than Teheran is now). Look at him now! Ballin in Texas. Good pitchers make adjustments and pitch good where ever they go. Boston probably wishes they had him right about now.
Also nobody on this thread said anything abt Moncada, especially not me. That’s you bringing that up because that’s all you can say. Yall want to say Braves fans always bring these prospects up, but you did this time. We we’re talking about Gray! I won’t be disappointed about anything. I’m fine with the Braves trading him or keeping him. I know if they do trade him they will get way more than that weak package you suggested.
Take that weak suggestion of a package some where else. Keep the A baller. Swihart isn’t even a catcher and when he did catch last year he was about as negative as you can get. If we wanted him we would had just kept Bethancourt. Also he is hurt just like Sam Travis. Keep them second-tier Prospecsts in yalls system. Why would the Braves let Boston rip them off when Boston is the team in need of high quality starting pitching? Anyone that thinks that package you’ve suggested is too much doesn’t know what value is. Then to say Braves fans standards are too high if the suggested package isn’t appealing, makes me think that you don’t know what value is or either you’re hoping that Boston can get a high quality starting pitching without giving up one of your top 3, then you are just as crazy as your boy johnsilver (which thinks Boston can get Gray without giving up one of the top 3). If you don’t think Teheran pulls Benitendi at least, then you don’t know value and you just act like you do
Oh so now you know me? Another dumb thing said. Actually I pay attention to the MiLB games and prospects all the time. I also watch more than the Braves play. I watch enough to know that Boston rotation is trash juice. I watch enough to know David Price got rocked again yesterday by Tampa. Before that he got shelled by Texas. I watch enough to know ERod got shelled 2 days ago and got sent back to the minors. I know RP has been decent. I watch enough to know Texas shelled Boston’s pitching that whole series and Boston should have been swept if it wasn’t for Mookie Betts. I watch plenty of baseball. Matter of fact, I’m watching Cliff Floyd talk abt the team that’s beating the Red Sox in that division, Baltimore.
I am quite aware of where Devers ranks on prospect ranking. Doesn’t mean he’ll be there by the end of the year with his struggles in A ball. That .233 average and those struggles doesn’t look good in their eyes (he has plenty of time to turn it around). A bunch of players could jump him in prospect rankings by the end of the year. Point is that he could drop!
Your saying Boston can get Gray without one of the top 3 being involved? Not 1? Man you are greedy. I’m here to tell you that Boston is not getting ANY top flight, young, cheap, controllable pitcher without involving at least 1 of their top 3. Haha I cant believe that you actually believe that could happen. You are delusional my friend if you actually think that’s a possibility. Boston can’t have their cake and eat it to. They aren’t in the drivers seat in any deal. If they want a top flight pitcher this year then they will have to give up one of those top 3. Point blank period. Nobody is going to give you their best pitcher for nothing less than one of those top 3, especially in a sellers market.
It will cost Boston AT LEAST 1 of the top 3 for just *GRAY* since Beane doesn’t have to trade Gray this year. Think about it.
Also Gray does not have more value than Teheran right now my delusional friend. Rival Execs don’t say Teheran has more trade value RIGHT NOW for no reason. Proof is in the pudding.
Benintendi and swihart only the starting point lol , just contact the dbacks and see if they get what’s left of their farm
I’m definitely no Teheren fan but why would the Braves except they? Seihart has lost his value as a catcher and Sam Travis is not a big prospect. Devers though is a great starting point and no way if I’m the silly sawx would I deal Moncada or Beneditti.
This isn’t even about Teheran this time. He says that the Sox could get Gray without giving up 1 of their top 3 prospects. Which is unbelievable. I’m saying there is no way the Sox could get Gray without 1 of their top 3 prospects. I actually don’t think they get Gray unless 1 of the top 2 are involved. The same goes for Teheran. The pitching market is so thin right now and quality starting pitching is in such high demand. But the little argument is about Gray this time. Devers is a good prospect with a lot of upside, but he is struggling this year and his value is down (I know he has plenty if time to figure it out) and you aren’t about to get a top flight, young, cheap, controllable starting pitcher with Devers being the center piece and Boston isn’t sending anyone from their MLB team because their offense is so good. A deal for just Gray would have to center around 1 of the top 2, but he seems to think they could get Gray without giving up 1 of their top 3, which is just crazy to me.
Standards are too high…? If ATL is trying to contend in the next couple of years, I don’t think that package would remotely interest ATL. Almost as many questions about Devers, who is still young (19), as there is about Swihart sticking at catcher long-term. Devers would be a great project, but I don’t think the package gives us what Teheran would give us over his contract. So, if you’re not upgrading – what are you doing? The market is far thinner with so many more buyers to accept this type of an offer. If you’re not receiving an Austin Meadows (PIT) or Andrew Benintendi (BOS) – hold onto Teheran, which is why Coppy keeps saying that chances are slim to none that he’s going anywhere.
Not a Braves fan… That trade is a joke and don’t think coppy wants devers. He’d prefer Beni.
Oh and Teheran>Gray by a lot.
@Brixton I’m beginning to think you’re nothing more than a smart troll. You keep changing your argument for why Teheran wouldn’t be worth but someone who is ever bit as similar is.
Come on man, just say you don’t like him and that’s why you wont do it. That’s more than enough justification.
Stop looking at the peripherals and you will see the actual results. Teheran has consistently outpitched his estimaters. They are a guide, not a rule.
To all of the Teheran haters and doubters, please continue to eat crow!!
Ohh, he’s just a guy with poor advanced statistics…Ohh, but he’ll never be better than a staff’s number 4 at best…Ohh, but he’s due to regress, because he’s soo lucky!!
Ohh, but…yeah but nothing…Teheran is proving all the doubters wrong, and is finally starting to showcase his talents to the rest of ML baseball not just Braves’ fans…
We, as Braves fans, saw his pitchinv repotoire, knew his strengths and weaknesses, and could tell early on this year he was going to finally have a true bust out, ace-like performance!!
Teheran is a smart pitcher, wise beyond his years, and he is truly just now figuring out just how good he can actually become!! By this time next year, I can’t wait for other team’s fans to come out and admit they would love to have Teheran on their staff as one of their top go-to guys!! Instead of this #4 or #5 at best nonsense!!
You show em JT!! Keep up the solid work, we all knew what you were truly capable of!!
As a Cubs and Indians fan, I can rather objectively say I’d love Teheran as a 2nd or 3rd SP. I just would also argue that if he’s your ace you better hope you have a good lineup.
That’s nothing against him. And a good 2/3 has significant value. But let’s pump the brakes on writing his HoF speech…
But the market is so thin with so many buyers, Teheran may be a #2 or #3 – something I’d argue against – unless you’re talking about LAD or MIA – but the market is so thin that you can get a return on him worthy of an ace. That’s the point. Shelby Miller was an obvious overpay, and the consensus was he was not an ace, but could be a great #2/3 in the right rotation, but ARZ paid for an ace to get him. That’s what we’re looking at doing. If teams like BOS don’t want to pay that, then they can try and make due with righting David Price and his 4.80 ERA and depend on Steven Wright or try and acquire the fringe starters (not unlike Bud Norris).
Teheran good at throwing baseball
Teheran a better trade piece than Gray? Don’t tell the Boston Fans! They’re hoping to get both Teheran & Viz for a couple of Single A prospects who might be 30 yrs old and had TJ! Sheesh
That what I was about to say . Preach it . And I have stats show he better at this stage that not only backs that up but shows he is beater in his 4th compleat season then the likes of f Hernandez , cueto, even bumgardner and others. And even better then hall of gamer at the same stage like Mathewson , Palmer, Carlton, and Seaver , Ryan and also other hall of famers like Pedro Martinez
Please enlighten us with your stats…
Lmao. It never fails!
Might be why the Sox have not won more championships is they value their prospects too much
Only another month of Teheran chatter and then we get a few months off before it starts back up in the offseason. Yay.
Haha been saying the same thing and I am a Braves fan.
Teheran is going nowhere
The Cubs and Indians both have strong rotations, so understandably, he would not be their “ace”. Put him on KC, or Baltimore, it’s a whole different story. No one is saying he is a sure fire HOF player. He is, however, probably the best starting pitcher on the market. He’s also not a rental. He will be priced accordingly.
Going out on a limb here and saying 75% of the comments here are from people without kids. JFC, go do something besides watch and comment on baseball.
I agree. Teheran will stay with the Braves. The truth is that the Braves do not have a SP that can take over Teheran’s place…so he goes nowhere. The focus for the Braves should be to find a contender that is willing to trade for both Vizcaino and Markakis. My suggestion is this…..
1. Red Sox get: Vizcaino and Markakis
Braves get: Swihart and Rafael Devers
2. Chicago Cubs get: Vizcaino, Markakis and Tyler Flowers
Braves get: Wilson Contreras and Jorge Soler
3. Giants get: Vizcaino and Markakis
Braves get: Matt Duffey and Jalen Miller
As much as I’d like to see that 2nd pipe dream to come true there is absolutely no way that the Cubs would do that. Contreras is going NO WHERE I assure you.
In fact I’d think that none of those proposed trades get done..
Lmao at the cu s trading contreras and solar for viz flowers and markakis the red sox deal is more realistic
I find it funny that 3 out of 30 execs said that they think Teheran has more value than Gray right now and the vast majority of commenters on here forget that 27 other execs were laughing uncontrollably at that notion…smh.
Teheran has a 99% chance of staying put! If he isn’t viewed as a low 1/high 2 pitcher in terms of trade value then he won’t bring a return that will benefit the Braves quickly, therefore he has more value to ATL in their rotation than in a trade..ATL will have to be blown away to trade him.
As for vizciano, return will prob. Be 2 pitchers 1 top ten and another top 30.
Markakis has good value, he won’t be a salary dump nor will he bring back a top prospect but he may fetch a good cheap defensive utility type or be packaged to enhance the return with another player!