It still seems like a fairly remote possibility that the White Sox will end up trading southpaw Chris Sale; indeed, rival executives who have spoken with the Chicago front office get the impression that the odds of a deal remain low, according to WEEI.com’s Rob Bradford. That doesn’t mean that clubs aren’t trying to see what it’d take to reach a deal, though, and ESPN.com’s Jim Bowden provides an entertaining effort at identifying what kinds of trade packages could be negotiated with some major contenders.
Here’s more from the game’s central divisions:
- The Cardinals seem to be considering how to rebuild fallen closer Trevor Rosenthal, with Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch providing an update after the righty was placed on the DL yesterday. Rosenthal told the team of shoulder discomfort, which suggests there may have been at least some injury considerations underlying his struggles. Meanwhile, the organization is weighing whether to utilize Rosenthal as a starter during his rehab stint. Whether that would put him in line to return to that role, or just permit him to work on his approach in a different manner, remains to be seen, but we’ve heard in the past that Rosenthal would like to return to the rotation.
- Among the players being “evaluated” by the Indians is Twins utilityman Eduardo Nunez, per Buster Olney of ESPN.com (via Twitter). The 29-year-old has mostly played on the left side of the infield this year, but he also has experience at second and the corner outfield. Nunez has turned his career around over the last two years in Minnesota, as he owns a .293/.326/.440 batting line with 16 home runs and 34 steals over his last 590 plate appearances. Presumably, the interest in Nunez relates primarily to the ongoing struggles of third baseman Juan Uribe, who is hitting just .209/.262/.336 on the year.
- It’s not yet clear how serious a candidate acting Twins GM Rob Antony is for the full-time job, but he might be back with the organization in 2017 regardless, MLB.com’s Rhett Bollinger tweets. Team president Dave St. Peter noted that Antony is under contract for the coming season, and seemingly suggested that the club would like to keep him around even if he doesn’t get the permanent gig to replace Terry Ryan. Minnesota’s upper management has also made clear that skipper Paul Molitor will be retained.
I hope the Cardinals actually do some business that will help at the deadline. Pressing needs are bullpen and first base. Sale would be a great addition. Two years ago we could have traded Tavares and Mozaliek chose not to. I hope he doesn’t make this type of decision again.
Moss and Carpenter will be back soon, first base isn’t anywhere near the problem.
Moss hits 245 range maybe good at home runs once in a while but we need consistent production from first base. Carpenter is great but we need him at 2nd. We need a hitter who can be a number 3 or 4 hitter.
Moss is hitting .256 with power and plays three different positions. The offense hasn’t been an issue. CF could use an upgrade but the biggest need is in the bullpen.
Tavares was going to be a star. I wouldn’t have traded him either. Don’t make trades just to say you made a trade.
I am not saying make a trade just so you can say you did. I am however, saying we should spend the time to upgrade our roster. We the fans have put everything we could into this great organization and they are just fielding a competitive not a championship team.
Time isnt the issue… Its a sellers market and Mo wont overpay in prospects in a season such as this.. Now more then ever restraint and discipline is needed for Cards.. With looming Hackgate judgement and the core getting older and less productive, it would be silly to overpay for a marginally better chance at reaching postseason.. IDC what the Cubs do or dont do… If Cards play up to their ability things will be fine… As we know anything can happen in postseason play.. The media’s darlings rarely prove worthy by World Series time anyway..
IMO Carlos Ruiz would be a nice position player target to back up Yadi for stretch run… And bullpen arms that are controllable beyond 2016 are a must..
Last but not least fire MM ASAP..
That’s not going to happen cause we have Pena. Makes no sense at all
ETA on Pena for 2016? According to MLB.com its TBD… So why grind Yadi down more? Ruiz is a FA after 2016 so why does it make no sense?
Well, can’t say that, cause look what happened to Tevaras
It’s really messed up that you would suggest they should have traded a top prospect on the expectation that he was going to tragically die.
I’m sorry that you’re favorite baseball was inconvenienced. Forget his family and friends and Tavares himself. The real victim was you. My condolences.
Spot on. I was struggling to contain my disgust at that comment. Highly inappropriate and you’ve hit the nail on the head Astos_fan
Thank you. What a terrible comment. Please don’t think that dude is representing most Cardinals fans. He’s just “that guy” apparently.
I don’t believe he was meaning it the way you guys took it. I think he meant Mozaliek values prospects over established talent. If you remember the rumor was Taveras for price. Not saying anything bad about Oscar because he was a talented young man but at the time we could have gotten one of the games great left-handed starters.
Tavares was going to be a star. I’d have never traded him either.
trading doesn’t mean success
Who knew Tavares was going to die? He could have been a very good player The Cards need some serious bullpen help
Cardinals do not have the prospects to come close to a Chris Sale trade
Twin will their whole team
Andrew Miller trade Rangers get Miller Yankees get Tate brinson Gallo
The Rangers won’t do that.
I hate agreeing with a Yankees fan, but I appreciate a Yankees fan who is realistic. Jon Daniels would pee himself laughing at an offer for those 3 guys for Miller.
IMHO, Miller is highly over valued. He sucked for 7 years, and has likely hit the pinnacle of a 4-year run where he’s used to get 2-3 outs per game and has figured out how to do that. No 60-inning, 2-3 WAR a year reliever is worth all that!
No way in this universe will this happen. Miller isn’t worth 2 top prospects. No reliever is 1 is likely. With another lower prospect added
All things being equal u think the Miller talk is just BS…they got a diecent haul for a rental, expect them hang onto Miller
The Sox would be foolish to trade Sale now. With the crop (or lack thereof) of free agent pitcher’s this winter they’d have a much bigger audience to market him to, instead of now where only 2 or 3 teams realistically could pull it off. If they trade him now it’ll be due to 1 of 2 reasons; 1) the team really can’t stand him and wants him off the team immediately, 2) someone overpays. Otherwise they’d be smarter to hold on to him.
WIth the fact there are ZERO Ace’s truly on the market, now would be a prime time to get the best deal for Sale.. Teams aspiring to win a WS would figure out a way to part with the prospects needed to get Sale..
Agreed, Teufel.
Sox are unlikely to get someone to overpay in the off season as much as several win-now teams might do so this week. I think TEX and CHW could expand their thinking and make the trade of the decade:
To TEX:
CHRIS SALE (SP)
Todd Frazier (3B/1B – would play 1B for TEX)
Zack Duke (LRP)
Justin Morneau (DH/1B)
TO CHW:
JURICKSON PROFAR (SS/2B)
JOEY GALLO (3B)
DILLON TATE (SP)
Brett Martin (SP)
Jonathan Hernandez (SP)
Eric Jenkins (OF)
Mitch Moreland
A front-line of Sale-Hamels relieves some pressure on Darvish, who could be more gently managed until the post season. Frazier would bring more production than Moreland for this year and next – giving time for TEX to see if 1B prospect Ronald Guzman can make it to Arlington by 2018). Duke could give a lift TEX’s terrible bullpen this year and next. Morneau is veteran rental who could surprise at DH for the stretch run in possibly his last chance to win a ring.
CHW get Profar and the #7 and #31 prospects in MLB with Gallo and Tate. Their infield of Abreu-Profar-Anderson-Gallo would be incredible from 2018-2023 (Abreu could be a FA in 2019, but with the low salaries of the rest of their young IF, they could extend him or replace him with another FA or their 9th highest rated prospect – Corey Zangari). Profar and Gallo are future All-Stars. Tate is likely to develop into at least a mid-rotation staple while Martin and Jenkins have upsides that at a minimum give CHW insurance that they’ll get at least one (probably 2) rotation pieces out of the 3 SP prospects. Jenkins is a speedy OF who could develop into a leadoff hitter. Moreland just holds down 1B until FA this offseason. This injection of young, controllable talent would get CHW un-mired from perennial mediocrity into a team with an exciting future that’s not too far off. CHW has only one prospect ranked in MLB’s top 100 (SP Carson Fulmer, ranked #33), which means they have no future without spending a lot of money or making a blockbuster trade. THAT’S WHY THEY’RE CONSIDERING MOVING SALE NOW!
TEX wins now and for the next 3-5 years. CHW wins big in breakthrough fashion as early as 2018 and lasting for 5 years. Some will say TEX would be giving up too much in this deal – but if this is what it takes, there’s never been a better time to trade in the farm chips to become dominant now!
I would absolutely decline that offer from Texas
Tate has not overwhelmed at high A this season and is far from a sure thing as was once thought. I worry about his thin frame moving forward.
Gallo is a legitimate top 20 prospect
Profar has been replacement level so far at the mlb level and has not proven much yet. Due to service time Profar would be a free agent in 2020 which is less than ideal in terms of being cost controlled
The rest of those prospects are meh
This would be a terrible deal for Chicago
Profar is a future All-Star. It’s only 47 games, sure, but he’s played very well since returning from injury. He’s playing like the sure-thing prospect (consensus #1 prospect) the entire world thought he was before his injury, and he’s doing it without a steady, everyday role. He’s bounced from every spot in the infield to DH, and he’s maintained a mindset and maturity that’s enabled him to produce through all of it. He’s above replacement level now, and he’s essentially a rookie. That puts his value ahead of prospects who haven’t even made it to the Show yet. He and Gallo will anchor the left side of someone’s infield for years to come. Decent point about him reaching FA in 2020, but there’s 3 years of very high end potential there.
Tate is still a legitimate top 40 MLB prospect,
If it tipped the scales, TEX should add Luis Ortiz to the package. That would give CHW 3 of TEX’s top 4 prospects plus Profar and two high-ceiling prospects who are further away from the majors. Talk about instantly restocking your mediocre organization!
TEX, meanwhile, goes far into the postseason this year and next, and still has pieces to add for a continued run into 2018 and beyond.
It’s a massive proposal, and as such, there is huge risk on both sides. But there’s also enormous opportunity. The timing is perfect for such a massive deal and the rewards outweigh the risks to create the rare win-win deal.
Can you guys please stop linking to ESPN Insider articles?
Please continue linking to them because I can’t read them as I don’t have a subscription and otherwise wouldn’t hear anything reported there
The sticker price on Sale is madness, but then, so is his value. To provide a little perspective, when the Pirates called Tampa about Archer, the asking price for him was Glasnow and Meadows. Two top 20 prospects for a good, middle of the rotation guy.
Archer is more than and middle of the rotation guy. The kid has grown up pitching in a division with 4 bandbox stadiums that typically house above avg offenses..
Archer is having a down year, no reason to think he wont rebound.
This scenario is entirely about preparing for the next 2-5 years as opposed to this season’s outcome and will certainly ravage the farm but for Sale it might be worth it.
I would love to see a Glasnow led package with many other useful pieces in order to keep Meadows and Bell out of the deal for Sale. Something like Glasnow-Reese McGuire-Mitch Keller-Harold Ramirez-Cole Tucker-Tito Polo. Then go work restocking the farm with a Melancon trade this deadline and a Cutch trade next deadline when Meadows has had more or less a full season at AAA.
Asking price for Sale is the top 5 prospects of a great farm system. Meadows bell taillon Glasgow McGuire. That’s been reported in many media outlets. It’s am exorbitant overpay, but that’s what it’ll take, or close to it.
Would be foolish at this point for the acquiring team.
Zero chance the White Sox accept “Something like Glasnow-Reese McGuire-Mitch Keller-Harold Ramirez-Cole Tucker-Tito Polo” for Chris Sale
Not saying he is Wainwright but he had success early in his career making change from Starter to pen back to starter. Rosenthal has the stuff but his control will more then likely hold him back from being a good rotation piece
Rosie isnt a starter at this point…. If the use him as a starter its to get him going again… Im amazed it takes this kinda stuff for them to take a step back and rethink Rosie…
IMO Rosie will be dominate again, just needs his confidence back and health.
5 reasons White Sox do not trade Sale
1. Sale
2. Quintana
3. Shields
4. Rodon
5. Fulmer
That is a good rotation and while the farm is thin they do have 27 million coming off of the books this season in just two players named Danks and LaRoche. I know Shields dollars need to be added into the equation and once you do I guess without adding to payroll numbers the Sox are operating on this year that is 16 million they can use to get a centerfielder and a catcher. Plus the bullpen is not healthy and there is a little tiny bit of depth there in the minors for bullpen arms. I think they may trade Robertson in order for some more flexibility for next year and upgrade the bottom of the order and who knows maybe Collins and Burdi can contribute a little next year. I think the Sox end up being quiet next week.
Adam LaRoches’ money came off the books when he retired in spring training. The White Sox have already allocated a good portion of those funds to acquire James Shields, Miguel Gonzalez and Justin Morneau, along with eating the contracts of released veterans like Mat Latos and Jimmy Rollins.
If the White Sox were to actually trade Chris Sale, which is highly doubtful, why deal him to another A.L. team? I have to believe they would prefer trading him to the N.L. with the Dodger and Cub trade proposals looking better than the one to Washington.
I like the proposed ESPN insider trade link with the Dodgers that includes a young and controllable potential MVP talent in troubled Yasiel Puig who is more than available and could give the White Sox a needed corner OF bat along with plus defense to pair with fellow Cuban slugger Jose Abreu. The White Sox slugging 1B just might be rejuvenated with a fellow countryman in the clubhouse, like he was in his historic rookie season of 2014 with Alexei Ramirez and Dayan Viciedo on board as supporting friends and teammates.
In addition to Puig, acquiring one of the top young pitching prospects in 19-year old Julio Urias who has already made his MLB debut, would still allow the White Sox to retain one of the better young rotations in baseball despite the loss of Sale. Teaming the talent and long term control of Urias and Carlos Rodon, along with fellow All-Star southpaw Jose Quintana would set up the White Sox rotation for even more years than just retaining Sale. The addition of another top 25 prospect in right-handed pitcher Jose De Leon might potentially give the White Sox the best young rotation in all of MLB, especially if their own #1 prospect, Carson Fulmer, can develop into an ace like he was at Vanderbilt, an NCAA factory of quality starting pitchers that also produced David Price and Sonny Gray. If the Dodgers were reluctant to part with a second top young pitching prospect, the White Sox might just settle for CF prospect Joc Pederson instead to secure Sale.
For selfish reason as a diehard Chicago baseball fan, I would prefer Sale be dealt to the Cubs if moved. A potential haul that might include LF/DH/C Kyle Schwarber, 2B Ian Happ and starting pitcher Kyle Hendricks would be a great starting point for a Sale trade. The White Sox would probably ask for CF Albert Almora to finalize the deal but might settle for either young OF Eloy Jimenez or switch-hitting 3B Jeimer Candelario instead. The Cubs view Almora as their future CF but might be inclined to offer Dexter Fowler a long term FA contract following this season since he has proved invaluable as a lead-off hitter the past two seasons, something the team may lack if Fowler departs.
There has always been the potential of ideal trade match-ups with the Cubs and White Sox. The Cubs have demonstrated an ability to draft and develop hitters while the White Sox have excelled with pitching in recent years. This trade proposal for Sale could prove to be a boon for both sides of town, in the short and long term.
As a White Sox fan since the early 1960’s, I’d be good with either the Dodger or Cub trade proposals. As a Cub and Chicago fan, I would prefer that Sale remain in the city and pitch on the North Side if dealt.
I was with you until Joc. I’m not a fan of either team, but from an outsider’s perspective…there is no way LAD makes that trade. Urias is most likely required. Puig is an interesting option because he has bounced back some, but is attitude is still a big issue. I’d roll the dice with Puig, BUT….I’d want at least 1 more guy…probably a lottery ticket type guy. A or AA with a high ceiling. I think that’d be a pretty fair deal for Sale, though I’m not sure CWS would take less than a complete overpay. If they are in love with Puig and/or Urias…then maybe it could happen.
I’m not an ESPN insider so I couldn’t read that article but I thoroughly enjoyed your take on it. I’m not rooting for it to happen as I don’t want Sale to go to the Cubs, but if he does I will then start immediately hoping the Cubs decide not to pay Arrieta in the offseason because of Sale and that miraculously the White Sox land Arrieta in addition to the haul of prospects from the Sale trade. That would be great for the whole city.
Trade Sale for Hendricks? Are you sure you are a Sox fan?! Trade a Ferrari for a Toyota eh? Yeah.. OK, even only as a piece the Sox would have to get Hendricks AND their best 1 or 2 pitching prospects, AND their best two positional players as well in the Org. In any case, the Cubs will never get Sale via a trade with the White Sox. The Sox are not going to sit there and watch Sale dominate the NL for x amount of years while prospects the Sox got do not pan out (or vice versa, Sale does average, but the guys the Sox get help them win another title). I doubt it will ever happen. Quintana will go to the Cubs before Sale does (and Quintana should not go anywhere either). The Sox will not trade Sale, why? Well for starters you do not trade a known ace for prospects, period. At least you do not do this until his contract is due to expire and they really see no hope for the org to win at that time. Second, the Sox asking price will be too high for any team to take. The Sox solution is simple for me: Fire Robin and with worthless managing style of constant enablement and poor decisions. Then remove KW for, among other reasons, refusing to admit his mistake in hiring said Ventura in the first place. Finally, remove Buddy Bell (dir of player development that has not developed one guy since he came here in that role) and retool the org as much as the roster. The Sox can flip this around fairly quickly and have tried in the past few seasons (this team on paper is far better than their performance on the field), but I think Hahn has been hamstrung by Robin mismanaging this club and locker room. If another manager was in place I doubt Sale would have been cutting anything up.
This wasn’t my trade proposal, it was Jim Bowden’s from ESPN. I tweaked the final piece to include Albert Almora rather than Eloy Jiminez or Jeimer Candelaria. Hendricks was only a portion of the proposal, primarily because he is a decent and controllable starting pitcher in an organization that lacks a surplus of MLB ready pitching depth. So what’s with the Ferrari for a Toyota analogy?
The big piece coming back to the White Sox is clearly Kyle Schwarber, a sorely needed left-handed power bat that can also hit for high BA and OBP numbers. 23-year old hitters with the potential to hit 40+ HR hitters and accumulate a 1.ooo OPS don’t fall off of trees.
Ian Happ is another advanced college bat the Cubs have drafted in recent years, just like Kris Bryant and Schwarber before him. Like the other two, Hahn has hit at every minor league level and is on the fast track to MLB. He is currently dominating AA pitching less than a year removed from being drafted, just like Bryant and Schwarber did. He will likely makes his MLB debut sometime next season, in time to replace Brett Lawrie at 2B, who becomes a FA following the 2017 season.
Albert Almora would immediately become the core White Sox CF. If the Cubs balked, Jeimer Candelaria would likely be the heir apparent to Todd Frazier at 3B, another impending White Sox FA following the 2017 season.
In Bowden’s opinion, and mine also, three young MLB ready positional core pieces and one good pre-arb starting pitcher is a fair return for a 27-year old ace pitcher with 3+ years of team control and a team friendly deal.
Schwarber I think is fools gold right now. There is such a small sampling of his performance I would not give up Sale or Quintana for a guy (or even this guy in a package) who is destined to be a DH and seems to look more like Matt Stairs than any other player right now.
I guarantee you if the Cubs were trying to trade Arrieta they would be demanding far more for far less controllable time.
Sale is an Ace who is under control for 3 more seasons at an insanely low cost; he is a selling point for tickets (for an org that needs that by the way), and a face of the franchise (scissor incident aside). You would only trade Sale for proven or semi proven young players in the org and top pitching prospects to replace him. Also saying this guy or that guy hits well in the minors is pointless, I have heard of plenty of prospects that ‘killed’ the ball in the minors’ only to come up to the main club and look hopeless. I just do not see anyone out there, Harper, or Trout included, that matches what Sale is worth right now (and that is also with the understanding Sale could blow out his arm at any point). Now again in two years if clown Kenny still has this team as a mess with Robin still mismanaging this club? Yeah I see him going for a haul, but now is far too soon to be taking a leap of faith on prospects in an org unless you are getting a lot of 1st round talent (pitchers AND hitters) for him and I just fail to see any team doing that..
To fans of other teams wishing to trade for Chris Sale:
Are you people on crack. No one is interested in giving you one of the top 3-5 starting pitchers in the game for your table scraps. You’re not getting Quintana, Eaton, Frazier or Melky either (for the same reason). You want an Ace, be prepared to pay for one with big leaguers and your TOP blue chip prospects. This applies particularly to Boston (you guys are ridiculous) and Rangers fans. That is all.
I could not have said it better myself. The White Sox DO NOT have to trade Sale. Boston and Texas on the other hand are desperate for pitching.
It blows me away some of the trade ideas from Red Sox and Ranger Fans. You are getting one of the best pitchers in baseball. You are not getting a player like that for your left overs.
And prospects are no sure thing. Look at Byron Buxton.
I agree that i wouldn’t trade Sale unless I received a good oferf but you’re delusional if you think he’s one of the 3-5 best starting pitchers in baseball. He’s maybe in the top ten but that’s still debatable, I don’t even know if he’s one of the top three pitchers in his own division, I would take Kluber and Salazar as the best two and then maybe Sale. Besides wins this year, he may not even be having the best season on his own team, Quintana has just as good of numbers as Sale. So again while yes he’s a good pitcher and I wouldn’t trade him without getting a good return don’t expect teams to offer up prospects like they’re getting Kershaw or something.
Salazar has a career FIP of 3.45, while Sale has a career FIP of 3.05…nearly a half run different. Salazar also walks far more batter than Sale. Sale has a superior career WHIP of 1.06 vs Salazar at 1.20
Kluber and Sale are are on similar levels, but Kluber is also three years older than Sale
Would sox give up sale to cards for Wacha, Garcia, Adams and top 3 prospects not named Reyes? Cards would be tough with sale, waino, Martinez, Reyes and leake as rotation. Who else has that good starting four?
No, your 2 mid-to-backend rotation starters, mediocre first baseman, and mediocre prospects (most of which are pitching prospects) will not get Sale. They want young position players and/or top level young talent. Reyes is the only name in that list (and he wasn’t even on your list) that’d have any real value for the Sox. Even with him included, they could more than likely find multiple more enticing offers elsewhere.