3:06pm: The Indians announced that Gomes has been placed on the disabled list with a separated A/C joint and will miss the next four to eight weeks due to the injury. Perez has been activated in his place.
7:58am: Indians catcher Yan Gomes suffered a separated right shoulder in yesterday afternoon’s game against the Twins when he tumbled following a close play at first base and will be placed on the disabled list, writes Paul Hoynes of the Cleveland Plain Dealer. The injury could bring Gomes’ 2016 season to an end, he adds. Fellow backstop Roberto Perez is set to be reinstated from his own stint on the disabled list in Gomes’ place. Perez has been out since the first week of May after undergoing surgery to repair a fractured thumb.
According to Hoynes, the immediate response from the club was that even with the loss of its starting catcher for what could be the rest of the year, Cleveland doesn’t plan to pursue a more established catcher like Jonathan Lucroy via the trade market. The team’s belief is that Perez can hold down the fort as the primary catcher for the remainder of the season, with Chris Gimenez continuing to serve as the top backup option.
Of course, it’d be a surprise to see Cleveland brass plainly state that the plan was to pursue an upgrade on the trade market, and despite whatever the team wishes to publicly state, catcher is and has been an unequivocal weakness for the team all season long. Hoynes reported on Saturday that Cleveland valued Gomes’ defensive contributions to the point where it wouldn’t look for an upgrade in spite of his offensive woes, but the 28-year-old (29 tomorrow) has batted a woeful .165/.198/.313 at the plate this season. Gimenez’s .188/.231/.271 line isn’t any better, and Perez was hitless through 15 plate appearances prior to his injury (though he did have six walks).
All told, Cleveland catchers have been far and away the least productive collection of backstops in all of Major League Baseball this season, hitting a combined .169/.216/.299. That production more closely resembles the league-average pitcher (.134/.163/.171) than it does the league-average catcher (.240/.308/.384). The 27-year-old Perez offers some hope, to be sure, having posted very solid OBP and slugging marks in spite of a low average in 2015 when he batted .228/.348/.402 in 226 plate appearances. He hit well in 24 plate appearances on his rehab assignment as well, though the bulk of that work came at Rookie ball, and a sample of 24 PAs is hardly indicative of things to come anyhow. Moreover, Perez is returning from a thumb operation, and it’s not uncommon for players to struggle at the plate in the early stages of their returns from thumb, hand or wrist surgery.
The Indians may indeed wish to see how Perez handles his first few games back from the disabled list before pursuing any outside help, but it’s hard to imagine that the front office won’t be at least gauging the price on potentially available backstops. Even in the event that they don’t wish to pay a prohibitive price for a top-tier option such as Lucroy, the market features a number of rentals that are currently performing well (e.g. Nick Hundley, Kurt Suzuki) and several other options that won’t come at such a premium cost, as I wrote last week when examining the 2016 trade market for catchers.
The braves have a.j peirzynski and we will trade him for an autographed major league movie. Cheap cost and makes room for braves catching prospects in the system
Yes but the Indians want a catcher who can hit his weight and prefer one who catch. If like AJ he can’t hit he needs to be a stellar defender so that rule AJ out again.
Did you really take that post seriously?!?! It was a joke. Read that first sentence again.
Hate it when sarcasm is wasted.
Your reading comprehension grade is 20/80.
It’s the acquisition cost, the Brewers want an arm and a leg for Lucroy. The Indians have to be frugal and hold on to their prospects if they are to continue to be a challenging team. Gomes will return and Lucroy will be an expensive FA in 2 years.
But even if they lost Lucroy they would more than likely get a comp pick back. It makes way too much sense for the Indians to go out and get Lucroy, even if it costs a lot. They have cost controlled pitching for a few years now and they should go all out these next few years to try and win a championship. With Brantley coming back and getting Lucroy they would be tough out in the playoffs
It wouldn’t cost a lot to get Luccroy. It would cost you the Indians long-term future success. A comp pick would replace only the scantest fraction of the talent you would have to part with.
Just imagine the Brewers setting the price at Zimmer, Frazier and another high risk prospect or two. You may think I am overestimating but the Brewers know almost every team is in need of a good starting catcher, let alone someone as top shelf as Luccroy. They will get a treasure of talent for him.
No way on earth they give up Zimmer, Frazier and another for a catcher, no way they even give up one of them in a trade for anyone unless the return fills a hole long term.
No way they give up both Zimmer and Frazier for Lucroy but either one of them plus a couple of lower prospects would definitely be more than fair. Indians need to go all in this year. Lucroy is that one player that could take them deep into October.
Seems like hitting the DL has been the only thing he’s hit all year.
that’s funny, jorge. pot… meet kettle.
-yan gomes
LOL! Pots and kettles not withstanding, that WAS pretty funny.
He made an offering to Jobu to help get him out of his slump. Now Jobu has the last word.
(I’m not making that up. The Indians really did that.)
Yep. Sacrificed a (rotisserie) chicken in Minnesota on Saturday.
“Is very bad to drink Jobu’s rum. Is VERY bad.”
I don’t think think the Indians will trade for Lucroy, but how about Derek Norris? It seems like the Padres want him gone so they can call up Hedges and coupled with the fact that he is not hitting much this season, he would be quite cheap. If he could return to last year’s performance, he would be a very good upgrade.
Or go cheaper yet and trade for Kurt Suzuki. He’s been hot and after this year he’ll be gone. Its a trade within the division, which you usually want to avoid; but the Twins are so far out of it and Suzuki isn’t likely to have much of a market value that even paying a little extra for it being within the division is going to be cheaper than even Norris.
Suzuki has made a home in the Twin Cities, and has young kids in local schools. Given that, and the Twins dearth of catching options (John Murphy has been a bust), it wouldn’t be surprising to see the two sides look towards another 2-yr extension.
I don’t get all the love for Derrick Norris. He only hit .250/.305/.404 last year with 14 HR, that’s barely above league average for a catcher. Even his “big season” in Oakland 2 years ago was only .270/.361/.403 with 10 HR. This year he’s hitting .211/.271/.396. If Cleveland had to give up much of anything to get him it would be an overpay. I would think a guy like Hundley, Soto (if his knee is ok), or Kurt Suzuki would come at a fraction of the price and be just as likely to be productive.
That arm tho!!!
.250 and 14 Hrs for a catcher.. I’ll take that any day!
Norris is essentially a more expensive version of Roberto Perez. Not worth giving up prospects to get him.
Derek Norris for McKenzie and Hillman.
Are you high? No way in hell bro
So 1 and another low level prospect.
Norris is a consistent bat and led the league in runners thrown out last year.
Milw. Probably asking more for Lucroy.
Padres need to make room for Hedges.
League average catcher- .240/.308/.384
Norris career line- .242/.316/.396
Barely above league average and well below that this year. Sure he led the league in runners thrown out last year, but that’s partially because teams ran against him more often than any other catcher not named Cervelli. He only threw out 34% and also lead the NL in passed balls. Teams know SD wants to move him, there is no way they get 2 advanced 50+ arms for him and doubtful they even get 1 and a throw in with the way he’s been hitting this season.
He started slow but has been just fine the last month.
He will end up at his norm with 15-18 hr’s and is a gamer.
There is more to him than his “league average” bat.
He’s also controlled thru 2017 at good value.
It’s either that or overpay for Lucroy.
Those 50 arms are #7-8 on Indians prospect list and still in A ball.
Not gonna get a controllable near A.S. Catcher for much less.
It doesn’t matter where they are at in the Indians farm system what matters is they are 50+arms, and he’s no where near an all-star catcher.
AJ Preller is on line 2.,
The Indians don’the have too many windows of opportunity. Their pitching is healthy, which (probably) will not be the case forever. They have a balanced good line-up….rest of the division is flailing a bit.
Pretty good time to make a shot at Lucroy for a two year attack….give up deGrom-lite, Zimmer, and a body and make it happen
I agree that now is the time for the Indians to go all out. These next 2-3 might be their best opportunity to win it all.
Thinking one of Zimmer/Frazier, one of their young pitching prospects (Sheffield/McKenzie/Clevenger), and a throw in is pretty much exactly what Milwaukee would be asking for. Fairly steep, but I think they could afford to part with that much if they were serious about making a run without really mortgaging the future.
This sounds about right. I think Zimmer is the better prospect than Frazier though if I remember correctly so if they would offer Frazier the Brewers might want another decent secondary piece. But overall sounds pretty close to what a fair deal would be.
Brian McCann for a single A guy. Don’t care who. Cmon Cashman, start the rebuild!
McCann makes to much the Indians don’t have the payroll
You do realize that teams can still pay a lot of salary for players that they trade right?
Yes I do and even if the yanks pay half of his salary the Indians still have to pay close to 9 mil a year which is a lot for them. And why on earth would the yanks pay half of his salary he has enough value to where they should have to eat maybe 1/3 to 1/4 of his salary which leaves the Indians paying close to 13 mil a year which I don’t think they can do. That’s why I said he’s to expensive.
But I do like the idea of McCann for the Indians because he catches until Gomes Is back an then they play him at 1st,DH and catch a little going forward because Gomes is much better defensively. And let Santana or Napoli walk in free agency in the offseason. That gives them a first base and DH combo for a while.
Ik the Indians need relief help too, so how about this trade
Milwaukee
-C Lucroy
-RP Jeffress
Cleveland
-OF Zimmer
-P Mckenzie
-C Mejia
-PTBNL(throw in)
Indians would have to add more for Jeffress
Norris and Buchter would cost less both in prospects and payroll.
Buchter is on a 1 year $520k contract, Jeffress is on 1 year $519k. Lucroy has about half a mill more than Norris left on this year and then goes to $5.25 mill next year while Norris hits arbitration. The difference in payroll is inconsequential.
Lucroy is a much better catcher than Norris….so yes Lucroy would cost more prospects
Jeffress has been really good and is signed to like 2019 I think for cheap. Indians would have to add another significant piece I think
Yeah I could see that, I think that Mejia is going to race up the prospect boards after this season though. The only real catching prospect the brewers have is Nottingham and i doubt he’ll stay as a catcher long term. So the idea of getting a legit candidate to replace Lucroy would have to be appealing to the brewers, and I don’t think you get both Zimmer and Mejia with just Lucroy.
Jeffress has been good, but his advanced metrics are no where near as favorable as the numbers are, suggesting that he’s been a little lucky. He is controllable til 2019 but only signed through this year and then he is set for arbitration and so are Smith and Thornberg. All 3 are about to get hefty raises so Milwaukee could be open to moving one and Jeffress would be the obvious choice. Mejia would be interesting to Stearns. Just the kind of young, high upside player at a premium position that he loves.
tribe would rather have will smith than jeffress. they have no one throwing from the left side in their entire pitching staff.
-lucroy
-smith
for
-zimmer
-mckenzie
-roberto perez
-plutko/morimando
So you upped the return by including Smith over Jeffress, who is the better pitcher and a lefty to boot, while decreasing the return by swapping out Mejia for Perez? Milwaukee doesn’t want a below average catcher about to turn 28, they want young prospects.
jeffress is slightly more valuable than smith because he has been healthy all year and has been putting up equally solid numbers to smith over 3.5 months rather than 1.5 months. check your facts again on perez. over a full year he would have been a +3.4war catcher last year. he is a glove first catcher, equal defensively to gomes, with a cannon of an arm to control the run game. he had an ops+ of 101 last year with 7 hr’s and an obp of .348.
perez is solid enough that they probably feel comfortable not making a deal for lucroy and can expect him to be as good as gomes both with the glove and offensively. look up the facts before making assumptions, he is more valuable than mejia.
Just the fact that he’s a lefty ups Smith’s value and if you look at his numbers over the last 2 years they are far superior to Jeffress. He’s passed the injury now and that is not going to affect his value.
Perez’s value is not higher than Mejia’s to the Brewers. Again they do not want a guy that is about to be 28 years-old and is arb eligible in 2 years, they want young high upside guys. And yes, he has a cannon, and he’s a pretty good defensive catcher, but he still was only a .237 carrer hitter in the minors and despite his good OBP in a small sample size last year he hasn’t really shown that he can hit enough to be an every day catcher.
perez has had a high obp all throughout the minors too. if you want to go back to his minors to talk about his .237 average, and then point to his obp last year as being a small sample size, it is completely unfair to leave out how good of an obp he has had his whole minors career. that is just cherry picking stats.
we are talking about a guy who is a great defensive catcher, hits for some power, walks a lot, but probably wont hit for average much. only reason he wasn’t an everyday catcher was because gomes was so good too, up until this year. and he is controllable for 5-6 years. that makes him more valuable than a prospect who very well may not do anything at the major league level..
what you are hoping mejia to be is basically what perez is right now.
but if you are a brewers fan and want mejia over perez, i will gladly let you take him instead and keep perez.
The Brewers aren’t going to be any where near contention until 2019. So if you were a GM in 2016 looking to contend in 2019 would you rather have a 27 year-old catcher with an average to below average bat and a good arm or a 20 year-old catcher with an above-average bat(hitting .345 in minors) and a good arm. Not to mention Mejia is a switch hitter too. That is an easy decision.
prospects are still just prospects. mejia may end up doing nothing. what is the highest level mejia has performed in? single a? there is still a high chance that the guy doesn’t pan out at all. even though, i hope not as a tribe fan.
perez has been about a league average to below average hitter the last 2 season with an ops+ of 89 and 101. that makes him an above average hitter at the catcher position, no question about it. there is value in having an established catcher on the team before your window of contention when you have young starting pitching that needs to be brought along. but, i am not completely familiar with what the brewers have for young pitching.
again, i offer perez, knowing that he is more valuable than mejia. but if you brewers fans want mejia instead, by all means take him instead.
Thank you augold. The Brewers have Martin Maldonado who is a defensive first catcher, they have Manny Pina and Josmil Pinto tearing the cover off the ball at AAA, They are looking at 3-4 years out which makes Perez over 30 and in a decline by the time they even consider being half way decent again. They would much rather run with any of those 3 guys than to bring in a guy like Perez.
Yes, he had a .366 OBP in the minors. His slash was .237/.366/.347, his MLB slash line is .235/.340/.379 so it’s obvious that he has a great eye and can get on base because of it, but it’s hard to keep that OBP up with a slash line like that because MLB pitchers are going to eventually challenge you to hit the ball. He also has to show that those 7 HR he hit last year weren’t a fluke after hitting only 22 his whole MiLB career. Catcher has started coming back to a more offensive position.
i’m not even sure the tribe needs lucroy. perez provides an equal level of defense as gomes, and it will be hard for him to be as bad as gomes was offensively. there already is a comfort level with our pitching staff with him too. even before the injury, we were considering replacing gomes with perez anyways.
i’d want to do a deal for smith though. maybe something like rob kaminsky and morimando/plutko
Statistically you guys have arguably the worst catching in the league. You would go from the worst to one of the best. Not only would he be one of your best bats, he would make your pitching even better, which is scary. No other reliever or player available would improve your team the way Lucroy would. This seems like such a no brainer to me. I would be demanding this trade if I was an Indians fan
I wouldn’t really say they need Lucroy, you’re right in the fact that I don’t think Perez makes them any worse than they were with Gomes it’s just a matter of if they think the upgrade Lucroy puts them over the top.
As for Smith, I would much rather see the Brewers deal one of the righties, but Smith should have the higher demand and thus higher return. I don’t see them doing anything with him until the Yanks move one of their late inning guys and teams start to try to counter. I don’t think that would be a bad offer, just depends on what kind of bidding war could ensue.
offensively, no doubt he makes us way better. he is a good game caller and does a pretty good job at controlling the run game. but perez is still better on that end and already has a comfort level with the pitchers. if perez comes anywhere close to the numbers he put up last year (might be a tough ask considering he is coming back from a thumb injury), the cost for lucroy would not be worth it for us. again, i’m not fully convinced either way yet. not until i see perez play a few games, which tonight might be his first.
i think some on my side might say that the offer of kaminsky and morimando/plutko would be an overpay from us. we are talking about 2 double a starting pitchers (i think morimando was just promoted to triple a, and he pitched for the mlb club the day after our epic 19 inning game vs the jays) who are both mlb ready in a year or less. but i think there is no point in being stingy with 2nd to 3rd tier prospects when we are in the position we are now. not when lhp for the bullpen is our biggest hole.
Fairly high price, although I’m not sure I’d consider it too much of an overpay based on what other relievers have fetched in return as of late. Milwaukee needs young pitching and while all 3 of those guys seem to max out as 4/5 starters or bull pen arms it would still make for an interesting deal.
As a Brewer fan I’m just hoping Smith ends up being that one guy that always seems to get ridiculously overpaid for. If Chapman/Miller go to a contender other teams may get a little bit of an itchy trigger finger.
Wait those three guys for Lucroy? You mean for a reliever right?
yes, 2 of them for will smith
for every huge over pay, there have been some serious underpays too. just the latter gets almost no attention making fans think relievers should get a ton in return. look at how little the yankees gave up for chapman or how little san diego had to give up for pomeranz.
when we look at the massive cost paid for relievers, we for the most part see them turning out to be disasters. ken giles hasn’t been very good, and velasquez by himself is making the deal look like a steal. kimbrel wasn’t exactly dominant, been better than giles though, and now he needs surgery. you would think gm’s would learn eventually. anyone who actually pays for what the yankees are asking for chapman or miller is going to regret it.
On your side and agree 100%. Cardinal fans freaked out when Kaminsky was traded and Morimando pitched well against a tough Toronto lineup. Losing one would be meh, but losing both would hurt. As you said though it fills our biggest need, even with Gomes hurt.
Well they paid little for Chapman because he was facing possible charges for beating a woman. Thats the only reason. When he gets traded at the deadline it will be for a lot. Also the Royals winning the WS based on having an elite BP made teams I think value bullpen guys more. It’s a copy cat league.
Also with costs of pitching and free agency always going up teams aren’t willing to just dump cost controlled good young relievers. So guys like Smith Jeffress and Tyler who are signed for 3 plus years each there is no real benefit of the Brewers to trade them for some organizational types minor leaguers. Or in the trades laid out here some future back of the rotation type starters. Also Miller has been dominant since the Yankees signed him, Chapman as well since they traded for him. Giles has what 5 more years of control to get things right? Still really good investments.
I would not take that deal if I was the Brewers. I would probably ask for Bradley and a lower level guy for Smith.
Mckenzie isn’t getting traded and Cleveland isn’t bringing in a catcher. Roberto Perez has been activated from the DL and he will be the primary cather going forward. The strength of the team is pitching, they aren’t going to empty the farm system for a catcher who won’t be familiar with their pitchers. Lucroy isn’t even in the American League, so he won’t be familiar with the hitters and how to pitch to them either.
If there is a trade between Milwaukee and Cleveland the target will be Will Smith. Adam Plutko, 25 yo AAA pitcher with an ERA under 2, High A pitcher Thomas Pannone, and maybe AAA lefty reliever Zack Crockett thrown in.
Nah. Brewers can hold out for much better than a projected 5th starter in Plutko. Smith is a great left handed reliever who’s signed until 2020 and a lot of teams are looking for that so that will only drive up the price. And if it doesn’t Brewers hold onto him.
maybe #10 indians prospect Juan Hillman or Rob Kaminsky instead of Plutko, but I think Plutko would atleast be a 4 starter in the NL.
Nah. You most likely will be giving up a top 100 prospect or a young guy with high upside
Juan Hillman is a young guy with high upside, that’s why I suggested him. He is a 19 yo lefty in low A with a .89 ERA and .96 WHIP in 30 IP. Maybe it would take him and Kaminsky, but that would be a pretty big price
Hillman is still projected to be a back end starter. Zero reason to trade an elite lefty reliever signed for peanuts until 2020 for that. Brewers have plenty of back end starters for years to come
They should sign lucroy now mainly because who knows if they will be able or want to resign Napoli. He can play catcher the remainder of the year and next year dh/1b/c.
If they want Montero, they can have him!
Roberto Perez is a big league catcher. I dont see them reaching for anything.
Mejia would be a nice piece but Brewers gave up Khris Davis to get their catcher of the future Jacob Nottingham just last February. A bigger offensive priority is corner OF or 1B.
Brewers would be willing to deal Lucroy and Smith (I don’t see them dealing Jeffress) but they’ll need two top arms (including McKenzie) and one big bat (Bradley, Zimmer or Frazier)
many scouts have major concerns about nottingham sticking at catcher. if lucroy is dealt, they basically have nobody at catcher at the big league level or in the minors except for nottingham.
Brewers have a solid defensive catcher in Maldonado and another option in Pina who’s in AAA. Although those aren’t catchers you want when your contending, they will suffice as catchers in the mean time.
Josmil Pinto is also raking in AAA. They have options. Maybe not excellent ones, but definitely guys that can fill the spot in the short term.
I don’t see Nottingham sticking at C though, I think he will be a 1B in the long run.
I think the Rockies should try and move Nick Hundley to Cleveland. They have a fairly competent trio that in some form could replace him and he would give Cleveland a sturdy big league catcher for the rest of the season. Maybe something like Rob Kaminsky + a low level lottery guy for Hundley would work well.
Cleveland isn’t giving up one of their good pitching prospects for a backup quality catcher who is hitting .250. No thank you.
Boone Logan is the Rockies player Cleveland should be trading for.
Fine stick with Roberto Perez then. Good luck to you.
Roberto Perez is a better option than Nick Hundley. Sticking with Perez is what I am hoping Cleveland does.
Brewers can always Draft a Catchet or sign a Intetnational one. Rangers will get him.
I miss Chris/cjs, he would have a trade that helped the Indians right now.
Also Napoli and Santana have been a Catcher before.
Both TEX and CLE match up well with deep systems and a need for Catching.
Texas gets the edge for their desire to win and deeper pockets.
But when you dig deeper, CLE seems to be a much better fit for what MKE is looking for: <20 year old top prospects. Cleveland's Top 10 is littered with young guys like Bradley-Aiken-McKenzie-Sheffield-Mejia. Texas's dudes tend to be a bit older (Profar, Tate, Gallo, Brinson) at the top.
My god, if Craig Kimbrel, an expensive closer nets that kind of return to San Diego…what's Lucroy worth? 2x Top 100 PLUS 3 Organisational Top 20s?
The Indians are in a position to win the World Series currently. With an Elite Pitching Staff Average Hitting Production that Could upgrade the most with trading for Lucroy who’d be the best Bat statistically on the Indians compared the Worst Catchers batting statistics residing there currently. I think they could acquire Lucroy w/o giving up the Bats of Zimmer or Frazier. Bobby Bradley would fill a large need at 1b for Milwaukee’s future. Mackenzie adds a Top of Rotation potential under 20 that Stearns has been pegging in trades. Then put in two lotto types that you like.
This would be an extremely bad return for Lucroy. Indians would be getting one of the best catchers in the league and would arguably not be giving up a single top 100 prospect. Remember closers are getting 2 top 100 prospects plus, and you want the Brewers to take a deal where they are getting maybe 1 (Bradley)? If the Indians refused to give up Zimmer or Frazier I doubt Milwaukee would want any part of a deal with them but if they still were willing to negotiate the package would have to be something like Bradley, Aiken, Mackenzie, and another lottery ticket type prospect. But the rumors say the Brewers want a lot for Lucroy so I would doubt without including one of those premier outfielders that a deal would come close to getting done
As a Brewer fan I was hoping for a package of Bradley, McKenzie, Clevinger and Mejia. Keeps the crew on path with their young core, but also adds an arm that can help soon. That’s a high asking price, but still leaves the Indians with Frazier and Zimmer. If you’re packaging Smith and Luc we better get the farm…