SATURDAY: Contrary to Drellich’s report, the Giants have not talked about reacquiring Sandoval, according to Chris Haft of MLB.com. General manager Bobby Evans expects Nunez to serve as the team’s primary third baseman next year and is focusing his efforts on finding a closer, writes Haft. While club executives aren’t allowed to publicly discuss acquiring players who are under contract elsewhere, Evans did address the Sandoval situation, telling Haft, “I’m not aware of any consideration of a reunion, but we’ll never forget all that he meant to the Giants organization.”
FRIDAY: The Giants have had internal discussions about trying to strike a deal for Red Sox third baseman Pablo Sandoval, according to Evan Drellich of the Boston Herald. It is not known whether the two organizations have talked about the former San Francisco star.
Sandoval, 30, is two years into what has been a disastrous free agent contract with the Red Sox. Entering the 2014-15 offseason, he was widely regarded as a high-quality option at the hot corner, with youth on his side and a resume full of strong contributions with the bat and the glove. The Giants pursued a reunion, but Sandoval ultimately took five years and $95MM to head east.
The productivity came to an end as soon as he reached Boston, however. Sandoval posted a decidedly mediocre .245/.292/.366 batting line in his first season with his new organization, and drew abysmal reviews for his fielding at the hot corner. He lost his starting job in camp heading into 2016, and ultimately underwent season-ending shoulder surgery.
Beyond Sandoval’s age and track record, there’s not much to commend him at this point. He has notably struggled with his weight before, but it has been a greater problem than ever with the Red Sox, and it’s hard to know what to make of the latest reports that he is in better shape. And now, Sandoval has the shoulder issue to work back from, too.
Still, the Giants have drawn good work from Sandoval in the past. While his contract is very clearly under water, he’s hardly owed a monumental sum. Including the buyout on a 2020 option, Sandoval is set to earn $58MM over the next three seasons. While there’s no chance that San Francisco will take that on in full, it’s not impossible to imagine the sides coming to a meeting of the minds.
[RELATED: Red Sox and Giants Depth Charts]
The Giants do have Eduardo Nunez and Conor Gillaspie on hand to cover third, neither is clearly an everyday option there, and both could be put to use elsewhere. Interestingly, though, the Red Sox probably have the greater need at the position. Travis Shaw and Brock Holt are under team control, and Yoan Moncada could be the long-term solution, but it’s an area in flux at present with Sandoval still a question mark.
They can pay his contract and have Crick
please for the love of jesus christ himself, no.
Lol
No no have him go for it!
You know I wasn’t sad to see him go to BOS, even though he had his hand in all the 3 rings.
Maybe he is like a Good-Luck-Charm. Plus SF does need a power bat off the bench.
In the event required to play 3B or 1B he could do that.
If BOS eat into the contract a little or helpfully a lot, and they take basically nobodies, I am not against the idea of Panda returning. He won’t be my starting 3B; at the moment that’s Nunez.
I am just saying having Panda if healthy and on the cheap is seemingly a good idea.
It can be the difference between a divisional championship or a wild card playoff game. I would rather have the security of a divisional championship.
PLEASE , for the love OF GOD, YES
Best case scenario for everybody, I remember one Boston find him there were a lot of Giants fans upset….sometimes cult hero status doesn’t translate from city to city
Damn auto correct
lol
GIANTS, DON’T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT. Nunez is so much better than panda. Plus pablo is much too expensive.
Depends on how much of his contract the Red Sox would have to cover. If the Giants can get him at 8 or 9M a year, isn’t it worth a flyer? They like Sandoval and always seemed to get the best out of him.
$9M a year for a guy whose OPS+ was 75 in his last full season, and who plays horrid defense? You’d basically be paying for nostaglia, and that doesn’t win games. Sandoval is finished, and unless he’s absolutely free—meaning BoSox cut him and SF can sign him to a minimum deal and not give anyone up—there’s no reason to go anywhere near him.
So you’re saying that one year, when he was overweight and out of shape, carries more weight than his 6 full seasons in SF when he averaged an OPS+ of 124? The difference between his time in Boston and SF was that the Giants were smart enough to have him on a weight regime. I’m not sold the idea, but a Sandoval on a weight regime would be a bargain at $9m a year.
I can think of plenty of problems, and doubt the Giants could get the Sox to cover half his salary, but a still young Sandoval, his weight under control, at a reasonable salary isn’t one of them.
lol The weight regime lasted half a season before he put back on the weight. He’s always out of shape for the most part.
“So you’re saying that one year, when he was overweight and out of shape, carries more weight than his 6 full seasons in SF when he averaged an OPS+ of 124?”
Wow, talk about selective memory there. Sandoval had two seasons above 124OPS+ (’09, ’11), and in his other 5 full seasons (w/SF & Bos) his OPS+ is barely above league average (around 106). Yes, he was a fan favorite in SF, did some special things in October, but Sandoval is finished, and as I said earlier the only way ANY team should consider him is at absolute zero cost (prospects & money).
“Wow, talk about selective memory there.”
Seriously? Try not to manipulate stats to make them say what you want. And if you know the history you wold know Sandoval was a very productive hitter from 2011 until 2014. when he was on a weight regimen. The history you’re apparently ignoring is that 2010, the year he was benched for being overweight was also the catalyst that drove the Giants to take control. The difference between the Giants focus on,and the Sox lack of concern for the weight dictates that his Red Sox stats should not be combined with his SF stats. It’s like home/road stats for the Rockies in that he performs much better when on a weight regimen
2014 was his worst year of that productive 4 year span and he put up an OPS+ of 111 that year. Over those 4 years, on the weight regimen, he averaged a 125 OPS+ Maybe you think thats barely above league average, but just about every GM in baseball would disagree.
“The weight regime lasted half a season before he put back on the weight. He’s always out of shape for the most part.”
That’s not only incorrect, it’s totally false. The Giants put Sandoval on a weight regimen following his benching in 2010 when he was too overweight to contribute. That weight regimen lasted the 4 years he remained a Giant. His weight fluctuated somewhat over that time abut he was still a very productive hitter averaging a 125 OPS+. Overall his weight did not detract from his play and there was even talk of a possible gold glove in 2011 since his defense was excellent.that year. He had 14 DRS, and a 19.3 UZR/150,
Boston was not stupid in giving Sandoval 5/95. Other teams wanted him as well. Where the Sox were stupid was investing that much money, in a contract that long, without protecting themselves from tendencies that weren’t a secret to anyone.
If the Giants can get away paying him no more than 5 million/year….otherwise it’s a waste of time.
“Nunez is so much better than Panda.”
Things you thought you would never hear.
Nunez isn’t very good bro. At all.
He didn’t say Nunez was any good.
Nunez isn’t bad though, and he’s way better than Panda.
Nunez stole 40 bases and had a .288 average on the year. That’s respectable.
Nunez had his career year in 2016, presently even if Panda on board. He is SFs starting 3B. He may not get 40 SBs, I think he can manage 30 SBs and be driven in my the heart of the order 80/90 times
Pando need to go back to SF but two. Of that 3 years must be paid by Red Sox they can have a minor league pitcher from A league
Please take him. Will take your worst triple A player for him
Or single A.
I can’t even see him as a depth piece at this point. What is Evans smoking?
Funny part of the article was comparing that lazy bum Sandoval to both John lackey and Porcello.. Sandoval has always been lazy, where lackey was one of the fiercest competitors in the game. pitched the entire 2011 season with a torn UCL and in severe pain, yet didn’t complain, nor let anyone know until the season was over.
Porcello is nearly as tough. Nobody dares speak to him between innings, or day of his starts. Sandoval? HA! He’s probably eating between innings. no self control.
Fits the whole San Francisco area profile to a “T”.
Masshole
Why do you equate having a weight problem with being “lazy”?
If Sandoval was white would you have used that word? Nope. It’s never the white guys who are lazy, huh?
Name literal instances where Sandoval was lazy, or GTFO with this racist post.
You were the one to make it about race, and yet he’s racist?
I’ll stop making it about race when I start seeing white players called lazy. Deal?
You can’t spin something into race just because he’s insulting a black man. If Pablo was white, we’d all feel the same about him. Thankfully, there is only one Pablo. Two would crush the planet.
Just another fan u said u had a deal if I prove one white player called lazy Kevin youklis by Bobby valentine ask Dustin pedroia media was all over that one. So maybe you can now take your blinders off and discuss baseball players like the rest of us and realize he is lazy. Lazy in the kitchen which gets in the way of what he could actually be always has.
dear lord, that’s your benchmark for racism?
That benchmark will change when it is suddenly inconvenient to him. That’s the thing about guys like him, they are invisible and moving goal posts. But they’ll be the first to call you names because you don’t understand their mysterious standards.
The benchmark will change when non-white players start getting treated fairly by the media, by not using these absurdly disrespectful “lazy” tags thrown on nearly-always non-white players.
You all can either quit calling players who have been pro athletes their entire careers “lazy”; or start calling out white players more for it. Option 1 is best.
It also is just so stupid to call someone who has worked their entire life and beat out thousands of competitors for a job “lazy”.
@JAF, Youkilis and Billy Butler. Learn how to read bud.
your words are stupid
Bryce Harper was benched in 2014 for not hustling and it was all over the media …
I’ve never heard one person refer to Billy Butler as lazy. His numbers suck but everyone loves “country breakfast”
Billy Butler
It was even reported on this very site
Go find a hate group to join. All I see you doing is calling people losers and now YOUR the one bringing race into this. And yeah if a white guy is as gifted as Sandoval and is just ruining his body and wasting talent yes He would be called lazy. You don’t need to be calling anyone you disagree with a loser or racist.
JAF isn’t the problem here, not at all
Calling him a racist when the poster made zero mentions of the respective individuals’ race is exactly why we have such problems in our country.
So yes, JAF is very much PART of the problem.
What I got out of his post was that he was making a homophobic reference to the San Francisco area by saying Pablo fit that area to a “T”. Unless he was calling San Fran area lazy although I don’t get the reference to that.
There was a homophobic reference made?
I don’t like johnsilver’s post in the slightest, but you can’t take your inference and pin it on him. It’s not his fault you are searching for things to call homophobic or racist (in JAF’s case).
*YOU’RE
So what would “fits the whole San Francisco are profile to a T” mean?
Is he saying the whole area likes to eat? I’m guessing not. It’s a terrible post(at best) or an offensive post by a frequent terrible poster.
I was NOT being racist, another poster brought that nonsense up.
i just listed 2 examples of players who had poor seasons, then came back strong. Sandoval was declining over several seasons, came to camp really out of shape, very fat, even busted his belt the 1st spring with Boston during workouts (fact) and mad no effort to lose any weight until after July of 2016.
I call that lazy by any book. Double that right after signing such a large contract. A lazy and fat contract sitter.
You also added, “Fits the whole San Francisco area profile to a “T”.. That’s not racist, but pretty clearly you have an agenda beyond baseball. You would have to, because the Giants have won three of the last seven World Series. Johnsilver–you are a smart guy who knows his baseball. Why not stick to it?
Busting your belt has nothing to do about being lazy, you really do need to stop putting your foot in your mouth.
And yes, the “non-white guy getting called lazy but white guys never getting called lazy” is ABSOLUTELY a horrifically-tolerated racist comment in baseball media. Especially when you can point out exactly zero point where Sandoval was being lazy.
And for all those going after me, unbelievable. Grow up. I’m not the one making these comments.
Nope, you are more of the problem than I am. Really weird how its always the non-white players coming under ridiculous scrutiny for things like “laziness” or “lacking hustle”, isn’t it?
I won’t even touch that horrible “Fits the whole San Francisco area profile to a “T”. comment either. You need to quit using this angle. If you don’t like Sandoval then show video of him not hustling up the line or something. Saying “Because he’s fat” does NOT mean he’s lazy.
You want an answer to your “lazy” problem?
Billy Butler is lazy, happy?
Wait another white player being called lazy????? This can’t be possible because now a days laziness is determined on race not personality acording to some people.
It’s just Locker Room Talk. Isn’t that allowed now?
You’re the one calling someone racist when their comment had ZERO to do with Pablo Sandoval’s race. None. Zilch. Nada.
Yet, here you are, calling him a racist.
His comment was dumb. But yours are equally deserving of criticism, perhaps more.
Again, being overweight does NOT EQUAL being lazy.
Show instances or stop being…lazy…with your adjectives.
Good call on Billy Butler. I knew there were some, but had a brain cramp.
To alot of people it takes work to diet correctly work Pablo has been afraid of his whole career. I call being afraid of work lazy. In a previous article his former dietitian stated he needs someone to follow him around everywhere and make all his meals like a child or else he will do this show up having eaten everything and it shows with pictures like the ones previouly shown on the cover of every newspaper in Boston.
Yup, and that’s what I’m talking about when I say “institutionalized racism” – the Boston baseball media is notorious for it (They got the fanbase to turn on NOMAR of all people!). Who even knows who that “former dietician” is and maybe why he’d slander him – no one knows the truth.
But again, in the original post, it was never said implicitly “He’s lazy because he can’t stick to a diet”. It just said lazy, and I took that to mean on field performance, because THATS WHAT WE SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT.
If eating too much, being overweight, and showing up to play in far less than optimal playing shape is lazy then… David Wells, Babe Ruth, Bob Wickman Jon Broxton,Billy Butler, John Kruk,Rod Beck. No correlation between race and obesity in the MLB unless you go out of your way to make there be one. Wish this never got brought up. Stunted a good baseball conversation.
He was lazy when he came into spring training overweight, even by his standards. He was lazy when he did it with the Giants. Multiple times.
Thank you gmanfanatic.
say whaaaat? hahah
Whoa buddy. I’m white, and I think Lackey is either lazy or selfish. He sat on the bench an entire season getting $15M, but threatened to retire rather than play for $500,000. And why praise panda for getting paid $20M to diet, most people diet for free.
Exactly.
Hmm, it looks to me that he just called a white player lazy, I thought you said white guys never get called lazy. And now that someone called a white player lazy are you going to stop making things about race like you said?
But Lackey did pitch for that 500k. Nor did he conplain about it publicly and had a career year.
He told the red sox he wouldn’t that was part of the reason they traded him
@JustAnotherFan
Fact check by Hillary Clinton’s ‘fact checker’.
Can you name anywhere in the post where he talked about anyone being superior because of their race? Then you have proceeded to call him a “racist”. Goodness me, some people need a comprehension lesson in actually understanding what the word racist actually means. You need to ”GTFO” and go and take some English lessons. How you made this about racism says everything about the state of the world and political correctness, where people use words not knowing their actual meaning.
Ummm???
“Can you name anywhere in the post where he talked about anyone being superior because of their race?”
Sure?
“Sandoval has always been lazy, where lackey was one of the fiercest competitors in the game.”
Just take this L, Sid. I’m in the right here for calling this out, and everyone on this site should be doing this same on this outright BS.
I still see absolutely no mention of race. I see two distinct individuals being compared. In your world, is this not allowed unless both individuals are of the same race? This is a Baseball site. Both are Baseball players. I doubt anyone but you was looking deeper.
How about the fact that he backs up John Lackey who is a well-documented POS, worthless excuse for a human. While doing that he bad mouths Sandoval, who by all accounts is a great person, just overweight.
You can declare something racism because someone believes one specific black man is more lazy than one specific white man. He may be wrong, and that’s fine to argue about, but it’s not racist.
*can’t
Ohhh lord.. let it go bro.. or should i not have said bro? My bad?
I don’t get it.
Sandoval is lazy. He went to Boston because the Giants wanted him to be under a certain weight. That is called being lazy. Stop being a puss.
Wow that last part of that was so clever. Or not
And saying porcello is tough because people don’t talk to him might be one of the dumbest things I’ve ever read. You fit the whole Boston dbag persona to a “T”
Everything I’ve read suggests he works hard but has trouble controlling his eating.
Also, it’s easier to discuss things when we don’t use labels. (This applies to everyone and everything.)
Ummm, race aside: did you just say the San Francisco area profile is no self control? What’s your problem johnsilver?
Ok we really don’t need to get into this as there are arguments for both sides.
Ugh, what does this “whole San Francisco are” dog-whistling mean? It sounds like gross homophobia. When did the MLBTR comments section get so out-of-hand?
Lol this is what happens when the three worst posters on this site (silver, JAF, jfisnasty) collide.
Lol care to ellaborate
With a name like that I know you’re just a troll
I respect JFisnasty
Disagree on that one. Silver tends to rant about things that don’t really bother me, and JAF seems to find things for Oakland that I don’t really see, but there are people that bother me quite a bit more here than either of them. I tend to find JF’s commentary pretty on-point personally
I’m much more bothered by the homer fans (every organization has them) that insist on recurring trade posts that only favor their team, despite other people repeatedly telling them that their proposals are ridiculously one-sided
JF is self important, JAF is a pretentious a hole, and silver is mildly autistic. Does that pretty much cover it?
Eh, I don’t know anyone on here personally, so I don’t form opinions on their personalities. I go based on the validity of their baseball opinions, and there are worse people on here for sure
By “homer fans that insist on recurring trade posts that only favor their team” I assume you mean all the crazy Braves/Red Sox fans? Lol. A lot of the Braves/Red Sox commentors here are actually intellectual and reasonable, but then there are some that definitely just tried a trade in a video game and it worked and they assume it’s applicable to real life.
I do too, and I don’t care that those people think I’m a bad poster, at all. If Jeff or the other mods think I’m out of line, they will let me know. Otherwise I’m going keep calling them like I see them, and I HATE racism in baseball media and homerism in fandom, so….deal with it? No one is forcing anyone to reply to anyone, everyone is free to 100% ignore what I post.
It’s hard for me to respect someone that non stop calls anyone he disagrees with either a racist or a loser.
@staypuft yeah.
I just don’t understand why stating an opinion on Sandoval is racist. If Sandoval was white we’d all have the same opinion. I don’t get the area profile remark, but pulling the racist card for remarks about Sandoval is ridiculous.
Exactly, why does everything now a days have to be assumed as the worst.
Well, I did add the caveat that every organization has them, which I truly believe. Some of the Braves fans have been the most vocal recently, but I think it comes with the territory when a team is succeeding (or, in the Braves’ case, the rebuild appears to be working). I come from a family of Cubs fans, and find quite a few (although certainly not all) of the Cubs fans on these boards to be annoying homers as well
Manny Ramirez never hustled either….is that racist? You people are ridiculous
Throwing in the “You people…” was a nice touch. LOL
“You People” in this chat room….don’t pull me into your racist crap, it has no business on a baseball site
I’ll be sure to use “fellow posters” in the future
“Connorsoxfan11 hours ago
I just don’t understand why stating an opinion on Sandoval is racist. If Sandoval was white we’d all have the same opinion. I don’t get the area profile remark, but pulling the racist card for remarks about Sandoval is ridiculous.”
How “ridiculous” is it to understand that every time you hear a baseball player being called lazy they are rarely, if ever, white?
It’s not an opinion, its racism. That’s why people get SO hurt over it, because its institutionalized racism, racism from the baseball media that goes back decades that people never want to re-evaluate within themselves. It doesn’t occur to the person offhandedly slapping that “lazy” tag on almost-strictly non-white players, because they’ve seen it before so they think its ok. When it isn’t.
Look, call Sandoval underperforming, say he has issues with his weight, but lazy? Unless you are prepared to back that up with instances of him not running out a grounder and getting pulled from the game (aka one of the only real times a player could be called lazy), then its institutionalized racism that NEEDS to be called out and taken down. Notice how we always hear about Mookie Betts athleticism and never his hustle? Betts hustles more than any player I’ve ever seen. But then we always hear about Pedroia’s hustle and never his athleticism? Pedroia is a marvelous athlete and literally won an MVP, yet he gets comped with “grinders” and “dirty uniform” types instead of HOFers like he should. That’s racism in baseball media and its been tolerated too long.
“If he was white we’d say the same thing” – that’s a strawman and asinine comment, he isn’t, and that’s not what we are talking about here. It’s like Trump supporters still bringing up Hillary things when she didn’t even win the election – who cares about anything she does, we are talking about what he’s doing now. Please stay on point.
In Boston they call everyone lazy lackey becket or jd drew they call everyone lazy black white Spanish doesn’t matter everyone who’s not playing with broken bones isn’t hustling hard enough nothing to do with racism.
“Look, call Sandoval underperforming, say he has issues with his weight, but lazy? Unless you are prepared to back that up with instances of him not running out a grounder and getting pulled from the game (aka one of the only real times a player could be called lazy), then its institutionalized racism that NEEDS to be called out and taken down.”
You had me with the first half of this statement, then completely lost me with the second.
Calling Pablo Sandoval “lazy” without any evidence is uncalled for. It’s unfair and might I even say, it’s a lazy argument.
But to call this racism in any sense is a massive, I repeat MASSIVE stretch. And for someone who just called out others for using a fallacious argument, this one is ten times worse a fallacy. There is zero suggestion that he called Sandoval lazy because of his race (or that he wouldn’t use it if Sandoval were a different race), that is not only categorically false, it’s grossly unfair.
But to call this racism is beyond trolling, it’s a desperate and feeble attempt to make someone look bad and bully people into submission.
And let me add a small caveat/lecture: the reason we get no where regarding race discussions in this country is because of people like you, who prey online discussion boards waiting to strike with your nonsense. It only embitters people to the topic of race and when actually racism occurs, we note that you cried wolf too many times.
I think 99% of the people here would agree that there was no display of racism whatsoever in that post, albeit a bad one. None.
Great post
@JAF how is “If he was white we’d say the same things” an asinine comment??? You can disagree with the things some people would say, but I hate that comment because it is the most succinct possible way to prove you wrong. If Pablo Sandoval was white, people still would have called him lazy. Which debunks what you say about it being a racist remark. You can’t take a black man and a white man being compared, and deem it racism because the person comparing said the white person was better in that one category. If I said that Ted Williams hit better than David Ortiz, am I a racist? No. I’m accurate.
And if you knew anything about anything you would know that everyone in Boston raves about the hustle of Betts and Bradley. They rave about Papi, even though he had to walk down the first baseline for awhile. Baseball is not running rampant with racism.
Looks like both urself, Sandoval.. few others need to define a ‘safe space” and retreat to it for awhile and turn off all outside contact for awhile if that sensitive..
This is ridiculous and has been on this topic for nearly an entire day the amount of self perceived racism many have implied.
That’s one of the stupidest things I’ve ever read on here @jaf, do you even know what racism is because I’m starting to think your still in middle school.
“Fits the whole San Francisco area profile to a “T”.”
Right. Which team was smart enough to have Sandoval on a weight regime? You’re right if you said SF. Conversely, which team was stupid enough to throw 5 years and $95m to a guy with weight issues without covering themselves the way the Giants did? If you said the Red Sox, and admitted they made the dumbest FA signing in the last 5 years, then once again you would be 100% correct. Good Job admitting your team’s GM had taffy for brains on that signing.
If remember correctly.. SF offered Sandoval the exact same dollars as did Cherrington when he was Boston’s GM. he wanted out at the time.
maybe the memories of the strict dietary regimen?? Who knows.. Then, Those strict diets were not after he was set to be making close to 17m per year either.
“maybe the memories of the strict dietary regimen?? Who knows.. ”
Maybe? There is no doubt about that. Sandoval himself stated in an interview that had he re-signed with SF he would be on a weight regimen for the next five years. It didn’t say it specifically but he clearly found that distasteful. He also went on to say that he appreciated Boston’s approach in that they never mentioned weight, nor was there a weight clause in his contract.
“Those strict diets were not after he was set to be making close to 17m per year either.”
Well exactly, but they should have been. That was a huge error of omission by the Sox. No one can know for sure, but when a productive hitter moves to a more hitter friendly park but hits for 50 less points in OPS+ than he averaged over the previous 4 years, plus the physical evidence of his appearance in a Sox uni, you have to put some stock into the efficacy of forcing Sandoval to keep his weight under control.
Don’t generalize people geographically. So far in this discussion I’ve witnessed exaggeration, manipulation of stats, reverse racism (victim card), and prejudice including, but not limited to, generalization of people geographically.
Bottom line is, Sandoval had good moments in SF but those days are over. Nunez is consistent and can run (which the Giants lack),Panda has only bench value and isn’t worth much. The Giants could do better for less hassle.
Sandoval for Matt Cain and Trey Ball.
Giants get Sandoval at 3/30M and Trey Ball
Red Sox get 30M salary relief and a wild card reliever
So in this scenario, the Red Sox would be receiving Matt Cain and a minor league pitcher that they already have in Trey Ball, correct? Genius.
That is what I typed, isn’t it. Um, How about Cain for Sandoval and Cain, rather. lol my bad, I didn’t catch that.
Don’t do it again.
This makes no sense what-so-ever for the Red Sox, especially considering Ball just posted his best season as a professional and is still only 22.
Red Sox don’t need salary relief and Cain isn’t a “wild card reliever” he’s a broken down shell of his former self.
Ball didn’t really improve, his BB:K ratio is still nearly even, he just got luckier this season. HIs future likely lies as an outfield prospect.
His K% increased, his walk% decreased, he posted his best homerun rate, his FIP started to even out, and he managed all this with a high BABIP. He was a very raw pitcher when drafted and he’s trending in the right direction and still very young. You don’t sacrifice 4 years of development and move the guy back to a position player after not swinging the bat in three year.
It makes no sense for the Red Sox to trade their number 15 or something like that prospect for 30M and a chance that Matt Cain can be somewhat useful?
I’m pretty sure Joe Blanton was a broken down shell of his former self too, and he provided great results in a different role. Not gonna say it’s likely, but it does happen.
There is nothing that suggest Cain can be useful. You don’t trade a young pitcher for a garbage pitcher whose peripherals are awful and can’t stay healthy.
Huge difference between Blanton and Cain. Blanton’s peripherals were still promising and he stayed relatively healthy save for 2013. Cain has lost his fastball, seen velocity drop across the board, and dealt with elbow and hamstring problems for the last three years. Cain best days are long behind him, in any capacity.
Matt Cain will earn $20 million next year. That’s not exactly salary relief from anyone’s point of view, except that that’s the final year of his contract, save for a team option that will never get picked up.
You’ve got to be kidding me! Don’t tell me the Sox get bailed out again.
Keep in mind, it’s Dombrowski you’re talking about. He’ll probably get talked into giving away some stud just so they can get rid of Pablo.
Well, I mean, if Boston wants to get rid of Panda to the point of parting with Benintendi, I certainly won’t have any complaints.
Haha, me neither.
Dombrowski isn’t an idiot… He’s not going to throw in any of the B’s (Betts, Bradley jr, Bogaerts or Benintendi.
This is not going to happen anyways, Pablo has to build his trade value back up and with Papi riding off into the sunset we have a spot for Pablo even if it is DH. We won’t need him but if he can return to form then we can get someone worth while without throwing in someone who could and may well wind up being a regular all star.
Ohhh… and dont even think about asking for Groome, he wasn’t mentioned but it fits the Giants m.o. in regards to pitchers
Yeah, when he salary dumped in Detroit, all he got for Fielder was Ian Kinsler. What an idiot.
That wasn’t a salary dump, they sent money to Texas match salaries.
How have the Red Sox been “Bailed Out”? They had to part with Adrian Gonzalez to make the Dodgers take those salaries and received Loneys contract, organizational depth prospects, a guy who was struggling to recover from Tommy John Surgery and Webster, who was a young flier prospect in return.
Nooo
Did Magic Johnson purchase the Giants?
Lol, good question.
The Giants would be better served using Nunez & Gillaspie at third and then spending their money on bigger areas of need like a closer & a left fielder
I agree. The Giants have bigger needs than constructing a Panda deal. Focus on the bullpen and LF.
Remember when the angels traded for Vernon Wells. Red Sox GM should call up the angels owner to talk Panda. You could probably get the angels to eat the whole salary and throw in a couple young players too haha.
I cannot believe Giants would be that stupid. They were incredibly fortunate that the guy took less money from Boston two years ago and they saved themselves millions of dollars.
If the Red Sox take on a majority of his contract, or send a better player back with Sandoval’s massive contract (to take a play out of the Dodgers playbook), it’s not a bad deal. Giants seem to know how to get the most out of Pablo.
Then again, until I see it confirmed by one of the Giants beat writers, I would pretty much call it pure speculation and maybe even wishful thinking from Drellich.
Confused as to why Nunez can’t be an everyday option at 3rd. Crawford is obviously at SS. Panik had an off 2016 but he can still be put at 2nd. With Gillaspie backing up, Nunez should absolutely be the everyday 3B.
I don’t get the hate for Nunez either. He’s a perfectly serviceable 3B who brings speed to the lineup the Giants don’t have otherwise. A fine bridge to when Arroyo will be ready to replace him. Besides, I thought Panda burned his bridges here on the way out… I’ll always be a Giants fan, but if he returns I won’t be going out to the ballpark.
Because Nunez and Gillaspie provide little offensively and even less defensively. Both had pretty big outlier seasons last year, you can’t expect that kind of production again. You have to bring in competition.
A eating problem is NOT a being lazy problem and labels don’t answer the question of whether this would be good for S.F , Bos. or Sandoval.
Hahaha, yeah don’t dare call a 30yo elete professional athlete “lazy” when his weight balloons to the point he can barely play the game anymore… he’s just big-boned or something I guess :-/
If the Giants are interested in trading for 3B help, why wouldn’t they pursue Frazier. Seems like a more logical fit. Better offensive and defensive player already, which could possibly even improve with a return to the NL.
They will. This panda thing would go nowhere.
They lack the prospects to go after someone as productive as Frazier
Todd Frazier had a terrible year I can’t see him getting that huge of an asking price. I know he hit 40 bombs but low obp and batting average high strikeouts if trumbo 2015 was worth a backup catcher who was later released he’s probably only worth slightly more @ this point unless I’m missing something.
For a depleted farm system like San Francisco’s, it would be too much. Bickford, Beede, or Fox would probably have to be in that deal. Frazier is head and shoulders better than Trumbo in almost every category, especially in defense and base running. Even with Frazier having a down year he was still worth a 3.4WAR more than double what Trumbo managed in 2015.
Like I said that was defense related. Not having a position destroys your war when you have a low obp high strikeout rate. Personally I believe he’s more of an add on piece to an abreu or sale deal to get a team to give up that one piece they otherwise wouldn’t.
Bickford was included in the Will Smith deal and Fox was included in the Matt Moore deal. They have less trade chips than you think.
You beat me to it about Bickford and Fox, but they still have some decent prospects. Other than Arroyo they’re all pitchers. But the Giants were forced to lose Joe Biagini to the Jays in the Rule 5 draft because they couldn’t protect all of their pitching prospects on the 40 man last year.
Completely forgot about those trades. My bad.
Sorry, positional defense doesn’t play that heavily into WAR that it would half it. I mean, Brock Holt played almost every position on the diamond in 2015 at roughly replacement level, and still managed to out WAR Trumbo this year, by a wide margin. Ben Zoberist, the guy who literally plays anywhere they let him at league average defense (and recently worse than) has never posted a WAR as low as Trumbos this year.
His value is enough where he can be traded on his own and net a decent return near to what the sox gave up for him. Heck, with his contract now controlled by arbitration that might not even be something you can say about Abreau.
Trumbos defense hurts his value if defense doesn’t hurt war why does the 2015 David Ortiz with a slash line of 273 360 553 and a 913 ops all told puts a war total of 3.2 for war while 2016 Frazier had a slash line of 225 302 464 with a 767 ops his war of 3.4. His value is in his position. Trumbo lacks a true position which hurts his value. If Frazier gets a decent haul it has more to do with the other options at the defensive position Frazier plays than his bat.
I didn’t say defense doesn’t affect WAR, I said it doesn’t effect it as heavily as you are making it out to, and brining David Ortiz’s defense into this makes no sense as it has no barring on his WAR numbers as a DH.
Trumbo has a position where he has logged substantial innings, RF, he’s just bad at it. Even with him having a “break out” year he’s still only slightly above average player to deploy.
Todd Frazier is one of the better 3B in the league even following a down year, Trumbo is not one of the better OF’s in the league. Saying they would cost the same in a trade is like saying Chris Young is worth the same as Evan Longoria because they have nearly identical slash lines.
I brought up David Ortiz s stat line to show how much better you have to hit when you don’t have a position which dh is probably just as bad as playing terrible in the 96 games he played in the outfield if not worse depending on how bad he was. Again any value Frazier has is the fact that he’s a third baseman. And really better third baseman in the league i like ops it gives a good look @ everything and according to ops he’s 15 th depending on if you would qualify Valencia and just ahead of Eduardo Nunez and yunel Escobar.
Again I said slightly more because he has a position never said the same. The yunel Escobar trade for instance I had as slightly more than the trumbo trade fwiw a middle reliever and 29 year old minor leaguer.
Trumbo is a Rightfielder, he has a postion. Just because he’s a poor defender doesn’t mean he doesn’t play a position. He logged roughly the same DH/On-Field splits as Mike Napoli yet no one calls him a man with no position. They call him a Firstbaseman.
DH is a position though, part of the WAR calculation is based on the position you qualify at so saying Ortiz WAR was only 3.2 because he has no position and is poor defensively makes no sense, defense plays nothing into his WAR. It’s not like Todd Frazier is a wizard with the glove either, he slightly above league average.
Grading how good of an overall player someone is based on OPS is terribly ineffective. It factors nothing in like Nunez or Valencia’s high BABIPs, Nunez’s very low walk rate, or how ungodly bad Valencia is with a glove at 3B.
Yunel Escobar compiled a whopping 1.6 war, worse than Trumbos. Grading a trade on what the Angels gave up to acquire someone isn’t the best place to start anyways.
Saying Frazier only garners value because he’s a third baseman is just an ignorant statement. If a team needs a 3B their not going to go after Trumbo because “their the same player”. Is Lucroy only good because he’s a catcher?
Actually that’s what makes alot of guys have more value is just the position they play and lack good hitters @ the position. Lucroy wouldn’t have as much value if he was a first baseman or dh. It’s also how war is calculated the position they play and when you play a position negatively it also detracts your overall war. If you play slightly above league average defense Frazier vs below average like trumbo it’s the difference in probably 2 war. Before even calculating offense trumbo is already in the negatives while Frazier is positive one we’ll say. And then yes war calculates the position in which they play trumbo played 59 games as a dh Frazier played third base. As far as not being the same you’re kind of right kind of wrong they change year to year based on what’s available. But Escobar as much as you might think differently has more value last year then then Frazier this year he had an option and they weren’t that much different in terms of offensive numbers outside of home runs. Ops isn’t a perfect stat just as batting average or something like that, there really isn’t a perfect stat but as we’re discussing with war there is no perfect stat it’s all a personal preference. To me ops is good for multiple years babip has a way of showing the year to year anomalies that take place but if a guy has a constant ops it’s generally a good indicator in how they hit.
Drellich’s article seemed borne out of wishful thinking than it was based out of “good chance”.
I’m sure the Giants, much like every team, leave no stone unturned for their needs. They are looking at 3B options, certainly they’d at least consider Pablo, even if for just to see what it would cost. I bet they’ve “considered” every 3B option in the game.
Drellich is probably seeking stories and needs to write, so this is what came up.
Please please please make this happen Red Sox brass. Eat 75% of the contract and call it a day. Sandoval is a bum.
I hope the Giants take him back and he sucks even worse and they’re stuck with his contract and the Red Sox get to laugh about it.
If the Red Sox get the Giants to take Sandoval, it’ll be with one of two likely scenarios:
1. The Red Sox pay a majority of Pablo’s contract
OR
2. The Giants pay all of his salary and the Red Sox package Sandoval with a significantly better player.
And you’re probably also hoping the Red Sox fairy godmother shows up and sprinkles the team with magic powder, and everyone on the team has career years. Sounds to me like you’re having a hard time dealing with the fact that your team made the blunder; it’s your team sunk with the under-performing, over-paid player, and you’re hoping beyond hope that some team will alleviate that burden for free. Don’t bet on it working out as you hope.
Although it was brought up by a Boston fan after a Boston media outlet reported it there’s probably some truth to it being a discussion probably goes to show San Francisco isn’t happy with their third base options either. Personally I wouldn’t give him away unless its a huge salary relief and in the end i don’t think dd will either nor will another team want to take that risk.End of the day he comes to camp with the red sox. Sadly
Thanks for the more realistic POV from a Sox fan. I completely agree. I don’t doubt they they discussed it, but all sorts of deals are discussed that never come to fruition. I don’t think the Giants aren’t happy with Nunez backed up by Gillaspie, but they may see an in-shape Sandoval as an upgrade.
I also don’t see it happening without Boston picking up some of the salary, but also not without SF getting Sandoval to sign off on accepting a weight regimen. A lot would need to happen for this deal. But he’s supposedly in good shape now, so if he remains in Boston he might surprise you..
You don’t get how this trade would go down, do you ?
For the love of God, keep him in Boston – New England Restaurant Association.
Haha… a lot of blame to go around on Panda, but most of its on him. No self pride, and how do you possible pick up a pay check in that kind of condition. Maybe some conditions for employment should have been in this contract .. standard wise
If this is real, I’ll be expecting Cafardo to show up this weekend with some nonsense about how Pablo looks better than he has in years, and how the Red Sox FO wouldn’t think of parting with him unless they were overwhelmed.
Cafardo is an idiot.
Cafardo is an idiot, but Sandoval is actually in the best shape of his playing career right now.
I don’t think it’s worth it to dump him yet, as there is some hope he can give something as a DH. Let’s see how the first bit of spring training goes first.
I’d give him every opportunity to play the field. Between Shaw/Ramirez/Pablo/Holt you could have a rotation between 1B, 3B, and DH.
It’ll be interesting to see how he plays when he’s as in shape as he is now. You see some guys struggle with mechanics after altering their body like that.
Giants should agree to pay more than $3-4 M in his deal.
Yay! Can’t believe the Giants would think of this but would be stoked to see him go. I just remember every fan laughing when the Sox signed him.
Frisco should focus on JD Martinez. Learned from Miggy how to drive it out of the park to right. He’ll hit 50 homers for the Giants. But, they’ll need to give up one of the few good prospects they have.
only one?
How many RH hitters have you seen clear the wall in right at AT&T Park? Pretty short list. Only guys who could do that would be prime McGwire or Piazza. Even most LH hitters adopt an opposite field approach — Crawford and Belt hit a lot of balls out the opposite way.
JD could be a good fit for the Giants, but his power numbers will definitely decline at AT&T.
Didn’t Panda say some bad things about SF when he left?
Yes.
Yes. He burned his bridges convincingly enough.
I cannot believe any NL club would give up anything for Sandoval and/or be stuck with any significant portion of his salary. I am NOT a Sandoval fan and was glad to see him leave SF but I also believe that ne could be of value to an American League club that can put him at DH because despite him being able to trim down from time to time, he puts the weight back on.
On top of that, there’s a chemistry issue with SF, Sandoval left the team on bad terms, didn’t respond to ex teammates calls or texts and slammed the organization as he was leaving.
Sandoval also said that he didn’t sign with SF because he knew he would be on a weight regime so who is to say he’s going to adhere to any regime? He could flat out refuse and SF would have no choice but to release him and eat whatever they were on the hook for.
Hey, that’s okay. You should read these Angel post. Angel fan wants every FA or traded player back. It’s rather comical.
Sandoval goes nowhere unless he’s free or a legit prospect is attached. Not like Benintendi but like Ockimey or Basabe or Brian Johnson.
He has negative value at this point on both sides of the ball and while a change in scenery could certainly help him, a GM would have to be stupid to give up anything of even marginal value for him.
NO, do I need to say more?
At least this would put an end to the Sandoval to San Diego rumors
We’ll gladly take Pablo and his contract for Andrew Benintendi please and thank you.
Whatever his skin color or sexual orientation, Panda has negative trade value.
My own thought is that he’s headed to Detroit as part of an offset for Verlander and/or Miggy.
And BTW, Benentindi isn’t going anywhere.
Detroit has stated they are trying to get younger and faster. Panda is neither. With Castellanos already at 3B, there is no fit.
JD Martinez going to hit 50 at AT&T? Unless he’s suddenly juicing there is no way. Att is pretty pitchers friendly. Dimensions, wind, etc.
He definitely doesn’t hit 50, but would provide a serious upgrade to the giants outfield
Makes way more sense than Sandoval
Gardner seems to be the fit for the Giants in the outfield, he’s a solid veteran who plays hard and can lead off.
JD Mart>>>> Morse
Morse >>>> JD for Game 5 of the 2014 NLCS and Game 7 of the 2014 World Series alone. Legend forever.
4 months and 5 days too early for this post. You blew your chance at a Syd Finch type story.
My favorite Mets pitcher!
San Diego lol
Padre fans too busy hoping Bud Black fails and celebrating $ they think saved by trading Shields, Kemp etc, little do they know they are still on hook for 80 mil
Padre’s #1 problem is no one will ever trust them after they kept two sets of medical records and flat out lied to the Marlins and Red Sox.
If you ever watch Discovery you would know that Pandas have to constantly eat all day to get enough nutrition. The problem is, this Panda has moved on to more tastier food. He is definitely not eating his bamboo shoots anymore……
Guys. This thread is giving me a headache. Cant we all get along? If you dont like a player thats fine. No need to insult one another. Plus. How many games have YOU played at 3rd for the Giants? How many world series rings do you have? Pretty sure panda has 3.
Sandoval literally carried that team when they swept Detroit. And Sandoval hit 3 home runs in game 2. 2 off Verlander.
And how many times do players sign fat contracts (pun intended) and regress a little. Pablo is a competitor and will be just fine.
And if not? OH WELL. BLAME YOUR GM NOT THE PLAYER. Its not like it wasnt well documented that he has nutrition problems.
Grow up guys. Jesus.
And he would have been MVP of the 2014 World Series if not for Bumgarner.
He did take the entire 2010 postseason off, however. I only remember one key hit against the Phillies, otherwise he sat on the bench.
You’re right about some things; insults are stupid, and Sandoval was awesome as the MVP of the 2102 WS, but he hit only 2 HRs off Verlander, the 3rd one was off Alburquerque.
Note to the Giants: Do it! With holiday regards from a Red Sox fan…
And in this great baseball gift exchange, Pablo Sandoval will be wrapped with a very nice prospect or an entirely free contract going back to San Francisco.
Thanks Boston!
If the Giants get him, would Nunez play left? Or would they continue to peruse Cespedes or someone else
Drellich & Cafardo spent last year predicting Hanley & Porcello would be dumped with the Sox eating $$$$. The Sox will not give away a top prospect to get someone to take Panda. They will give him one more year to get right. In 2015 he went 2 for 40 from the right side before giving up switch hitting; most likely his left shoulder was already injured. After Hanley & Porcello’s 2016 comebacks it is not unreasonable to hope Panda can do the same. Good teams do not sell low on veterans. The main reason DD is hoping Panda has a good 2017 so that he can trade him is the wealth of talent in the system . If Dubon becomes the SS Boegy can move to 3B or Moncada, Devers and Chaivez could be in the 3B/1B/DH mix.
we want the Panda bear back……
from Joe, give us Pablo please
Personally, IMO, I think BOS should wait and see at this point unless you get a half way decent deal. 3B/DH is pretty open, and his value can’t dip any lower. If SF thinks they have the right environment for him today then they will think the same a month into the season. His contract isn’t looking as bad as it did at the end of the 1st year or the start of the 2nd. But sure, take him.
Sounds like Drellich was doing a little stirring of the pot. On whose behalf, and on whose behest remains to be seen. But I kind of doubt a member of the Giant FO would open up to a Boston writer so as to drive up the price..
Is there just a thing about San Francisco and Boston teams and misrepresented trade rumors? First it was Klay Thompson to the Celtics, now this? Let all analysts take this as a lesson to not publish something until they’ve had some confirmation from an internal source.
Sounds like a potential trade that could be polled by mlbtraderumors, maybe two polls, one for Giants fans, one for Red Sox fans as the results might be more interesting than a single poll.
“I’m a professional and I know what I have to do,” said Sandoval, listed as 5-11 and 255. “I know where I’ve failed and how I’ve grown up. If I had signed (with the Giants), I knew I would be under a (weight) regimen for five years, and I’m not going to be happy someplace where I’m under that kind of regimen, where I can’t be myself.”
…yeah, uhm, this update is hardly a surprise. I mean, why would the Giants ever want the guy back when he whined and cried and played childish phone games because SanFran did things to keep him in playing shape – he specifically didn’t sign with them because he doesn’t want to be put on a program which keeps him in playing shape!
Like he says, he is a professional and knows what he needs to do – he just doesn’t want to do it, and he now doesn’t need to in order to collect his huge paycheck anyway so…
LOL at anyone who thought it would happen.
SF front office has gotta be laughing their arses off over this story. Foolish to even give my comment to waste my time.
Writer Todd’s middle name is Wee
95 million was an overpay for him regardless of all of the things that have been said in this thread, regardless of the color of his skin, the size of his waist line or the seriousness of his shoulder injury
I agree Michael Macaulay-Birks, it was a bad contract from start to ?
And, oh my gosh the Yankees aren’t tied to this one…..the sky is falling!
Just another example of an overpay for in this case not even average performance..
Let’s not let the team responsible for this one off the hook again!
Don’t believe anything Drelich reports he is so full of crap.
If the Giants are smart they stay as far away from Sandoval as possible. A bad contract along with bad weight issues. If he can come back then the Red Sox will be able to use him. If not then they will be feeding home for a few more years.
If the Giants are serious about contending in the odd year, Pablo is NOT the answer. He’s a has been.. Constantly dealing with weight issues and now the shoulder. Why would you want to get involved in any part of a 95 million dollar contract and add another headache to the team. The Giants priorities should be middle relievers a strong closer and a player that can hit 30 home runs. The Giants bats are flat. Don’t rely on Posey to do it all.
LEAVE THE PANDA RIGHT IN BEAN TOWN!!!!
I’ve confirmed how this story came out… Drellich has a buddy who knows a stripper who lives in SF. That strippers hairdresser’s has a friend of a friend whose uncle works at AT&T as a groundskeeper. The groundskeepers dog overheard someone in the front office mention the food budget was going to be increased and assumed that it meant Pablo was coming back.
I’ve conducted a very exhaustive investigation and concluded that the groundskeepers dog is hard of hearing and that Drellich’s sources are clearly just making crap up….
Haha
Makes total sense. Hungry dog said “rrr-rrr” and people heard that as “Panda”
Nice investigative work–maybe there’s a place for you at MLBTR?
DEVELOPING: Giants would trade Lincecum and Bumgarner, PTBNL for Panda, Benintendi, Moncada, cash.
Oh boy. Go ahead bring the hate.
I realize that
1. It’s not developing, it’s a suggestion
2. Lincecum is a FA. I meant Samardzja.
My apologies. Very sorry for the mistake.
“Oh please, please, please let the giants trade for the panda!!”, said the dodgers fan.