The Mariners asked the Pirates about center fielder Andrew McCutchen earlier this offseason, MLB Network’s Jon Morosi reports (Twitter link), though talks between the two sides “did not advance.” Pirates general manager Neal Huntington said after the GM Meetings that he had been receiving calls from multiple teams about McCutchen’s services, and given Seattle’s rather unsettled outfield situation, it isn’t surprising that the Mariners checked in on the former NL MVP. A couple of weeks ago, Ken Rosenthal reported that the Nationals discussed a McCutchen deal with Pittsburgh over the summer.
On most days, the Mariners will use three left-handed hitters (Seth Smith, Leonys Martin and Ben Gamel) as their starting outfield, with right-handed bats Danny Valencia, Guillermo Heredia or regular DH Nelson Cruz spelling Smith against left-handed pitching. Mariners GM Jerry Dipoto has said that the club intends for Gamel to play every day, though given Gamel’s lack of experience, one would think the M’s would also want some right-handed protection for Gamel against tough southpaws. Then again, with Valencia also likely to see time at first base spelling Dan Vogelbach against lefty pitching, there may not be enough right-handed outfield bats to go around.
Adding another right-handed hitter (like McCutchen) would go a lot way towards stabilizing the many moving parts of this platoon situation. McCutchen would have immediately become the everyday option in left or right field, as given how the former Gold Glover’s defense has heavily declined over the last three years, it would’ve made little sense for him to displace Martin in center.
The big question facing the M’s or any other team interested in McCutchen, of course, is whether his rough 2016 season was the start of a decline or just an aberration. McCutchen hit just .256/.336/.430 over 675 PA for the Bucs last season, easily the worst numbers of his eight-year career. Between his poor hitting, fielding and even a below-average baserunning totals, McCutchen posted just 0.7 fWAR last year, a stunning dropoff for a player who amassed 33.3 fWAR over the previous five seasons.
McCutchen is owed $14MM in 2017 and the Pirates have a $14.5MM club option on the outfielder for 2018 (with a $1MM buyout). McCutchen’s contract has long been seen as one of baseball’s great bargains, though if the Pirates no longer know what kind of production their longtime star will deliver from now on, the deal may now be considered too risky for a small-market team like Pittsburgh. With top prospect Austin Meadows waiting in the wings, one has to wonder if we’ve seen the last of McCutchen in Bucs black-and-gold, as teams with more financial breathing room can afford to see if McCutchen can return to form.
Name any 4 prospects in the M’s system not named Kyle Lewis or Drew Jackson and pull the trigger
I dont really think drew jackson is a very highly valued prospect, maybe you meant Alex Jackson? And anyways Tyler O’Neil is above Alex Jackson.
You’d need Lewis, O’Neil, and possibly Walker to get him. The Pirates wouldn’t sell low because of a down year. He’d still cost a stupid haul
The Mariners wouldn’t trade Walker, a cost controlled and young (albeit inconsistent and semi-injury prone) starting pitcher for an old, not as valuable, outfielder who could reasonably be expected to regress. I could see asking for Lewis and O’Neil (wouldn’t want it though), but Walker would definitely be off limits. If the Pirates asked for Walker, that’s when Dipoto would hang up.
Exactly. That’s why the talks didn’t go far. The teams don’t match up. The Pirates need a SP that they can plug right into the rotation. They are not rebuilding. They should not be looking for prospects.
I think we can expect to see a lot “team X asked about McCutchen” stories in the weeks to come. The team willing to give up a SP in the hopes that Cutch rebounds will get him.
Hmm. A star OF who has this far had one bad year vs. a young, controllable, often injured pitcher who has not yet had a good year. It’s just as easy to say Walker is over rated as it is to say McCutchen has regressed. As I am a fan of neither of these two teams, I would say both players are equally risky.
I hate to barge in on your ignorance but Andrew McCutchen just turned 30 and had one bad year. McCutchen played much more like himself after the All Star break. When McCutchen is at his best he is the best hitter in the National league, when Tajuan Walker is at his best he is a number 4 pitcher. My point is Walker for McCutchen would be a steal and also would never happen because nobody is that stupid.
i wouldn’t say the man is old,he just turned 30 and had a bad season,nothing more.
I don’t think you need to use the word ignorance. I think the value lies somewhere in between. Cutch is good, but he is definitely regressing. Yes, he had one bad year, but it’s not like his one bad season was his age 26 season and he bounced back. It was his age 30 season, which is past his prime. That tends to signal a downward trend. That’s why his defense has trended downward too. I think he is definitely worth a couple in the list of Lewis, O’Neill, and Peterson along with Gohara and some other pitchers. But, I don’t think he is worth the likes of Walker or Paxton. When Walker is at his best, he can be an ace. Yes, he hasn’t consistently shown it, but I’d take my chances at him getting there over Cutch coming back to form. Walker is heading towards his prime, Cutch has already left his. I’m not saying Cutch isn’t good, just saying it’s not worth it at that point. And a lot of other teams are going to think the same. That’s why you’re not going to get someone like Giolito from the Nats either. At that request, a lot of teams will look elsewhere at this point.
That’s an overpay and the M’s would promptly hang up the phone if the Pirates wanted those 3. I can see Walker being the main piece and if he is you’re not getting O’Neil and Lewis on top of that now that’s just ridiculous.
Maybe Walker as the centerpiece works but I doubt the M’s wanna give up a key piece of their rotation for a 2 yr rental.
no one ever called a guy with a two year contract a rental,goof.
Everyone seems to think these GMs do a lot of hanging up on each other. That would be hilarious if it were true.
This is different. I called him a rental because I don’t think Seattle is resigning him after trading for him. If last season was a fluke and he does start posting MVP-like numbers again then he’s looking at a pretty big payday and the M’s will I’m 99.9% certain let him walk.
When I hear the term rental I’m thinking one year or less. 2/~30 is a bargain for Mccutchen and the fact that there aren’t more than two years isn’t a deterrent IMO. Assuming they don’t change this part of the CBA they’ll still have qualifying offer leverage over his free agency which is arguably preferable to having long term guaranteed money on him at this point.
Ok Eric Filia OF Donnie Walton IF Nick Thurman C Danny Garcia P. There those are 4 prospects from our short season A team. If you think you are getting 4 prospects that is what you are getting. There is no easy you are getting 4 guys from the top 30. The guy is coming off a questionable year is controllable for 2 years at the most and is old. Isn’t happening.
Wait, you don’t really believe Andrew McCutchen isn’t worth anyone’s top prospects, do you?
He really isn’t. If you trade for Cutch you’ve got him for two years. That’s it. And it plays out one of two ways.
A:) He returns to form and after year 2 he’s a free agent looking at a $150-200M payday. You pay up or he’s gone.
OR
B:) he continues to regress and you just sold the farm for a guy that ranges from replacement level to below replacement level.
Scenario A isn’t so bad if you win the WS but Scenario B is the kind that cripples franchises for years.
He isn’t worth anyone’s top 4 prospects. You might get 1 at this point but there are way too many question marks on him. I would have loved Seattle to get him last year and given up some of our top guys for him but not now. This could be a one year aberration or a huge downturn. Maybe you can call it the Chone Figgins effect but when someone has a season like that it scares me that it will snowball. Plus the 2 years of control is low you would want more for a large haul of top level prospects.
As for Walker he has shown enough that he will be a pretty good pitcher now he has to show he can stay healthy. He is young enough that you don’t sell low or give up on him.
Okay, let me rephrase this, since “top prospects” took over the conversation, instead of the phrase I was trying to get at.
Whereslou is suggesting McCutchen wouldn’t even be had at the price of a single player in the organization’s top 30 guys? Not one?
Teams give up players in their organizational top 30 for border-line DFA candidates. Surely one of the games best center fielders on a down year will get more, don’t you think?
None of this answers my question (which I admit was poorly asked):
Whereslou is suggesting that the most the Pirates would get is four low-level lottery tickets. He even suggests there is no way they get anyone from the top 30 organizational prospects, which may be the most absurd suggestion I’ve heard lately.
I don’t think there is any chance Cutch is moved and at least one top 30 prospect doesn’t go to Pittsburgh. That’s top 30 by the team’s standards, not all of baseball. I think, down year considered, McCutchen should bring back a couple of top 30 relief/utility/lottery ticket types plus a better, top 10 type of prospect.
That’s my point.
The assertion that he wouldn’t even draw a marginal prospect from an okay farm system is beyond asinine.
Pirates need MLB starting pitching and a Closer both with some control beyond 2017 before prospects if they want to seriously compete this season. any package that doesn’t include one or both of those then there really isn’t much to talk about.
Trading Cutch would be a big mistake. At this point in time, Meadows is NOT waiting in the wings and has proven nothing at AAA ball, let alone be cast in concrete for Cutch’s replacement.
Meadows can’t even stay healthy for a full season.
That’s the dirty little secret no one talks about. I don’t think he’s played a full season yet.
he was actually really good in triple a, just unlucky, his k rate didnt get crazy, maintained a solid walk rate and showed his power. he certainly is waiting in the wings. not to mention he is already an upgrade defensively over cutch.
The Pirates need to build around the Star player not trade him and wait another 10 years to be good again
Marte is just as good, if not better at this point.
They need to trade their third best outfielder to bolster their rotation. It’s not going to be 10 years before they’re good again.
Be honest. You said the same thing 8 years ago about Jason Bay, didn’t you?
Meadows hit .214 in AAA last season. I don’t think he is anywhere near ready to take over for McCutchen.
He had a .757 OPS in his first go around at AAA. Not gonna say he should be the Pirates opening day LFer or anything, but hes going to be just fine
In 126 PA’s. Small sample size. I’ve had the opportunity to see him multiple times in person and the kid is a stud. Clearly separates himself
I think Bell ends up in the OF for 2017 if Cutch is traded, at least until Meadows is ready. Heck, Osuna may eventually take over at first and Bell may revert back to the OF full time. Unlikely but I am not sure they can afford to play Bell at first with his D.
Cutch for King Felix straight up
Pittsburgh can’t afford Felix
Yes they can. They just choose to be cheap.
if the M’s take Mercer, Watson and Harrison along with Cutch and include some prospects like Lewis and Peterson, then the Bucs can afford Felix
pirates can afford his salary if they off load Cutch. with out many issues.. Felix would ‘only’ cost the pirates ~13 more the next two which is a steal for someone like felix. after which they would trade Felix with two years of control left and bring in a nice haul.
sure it won’t happen, not because of money though.
That’s a terrible deal. Felix is way more valuable than Cutch is. Even if you go off the theory that it was just one bad year for Cutch, you can easily spin that in the same way for Felix.
Not really. Hernandez is in clear decline by all sorts of measures including a drastic decrease in velocity from his heyday. There’s no chance the velo is ever coming back with more age. There is however a chance McCutchen could bounce back to the player he’s been before this past season
I think it’s foolish to say Felix isn’t likely to bounce back, still relatively young, had a similar year to Verlanders 2015 year and Verlander bounced back and arguably should have won the Cy Young this year, he’s a smart pitcher and will find a way to work with the velocity he has, his best pitch is his change up and curve anyways so just needs to make more separation in those velocities from his fastball
Even with his struggles, Felix was worth 1.6 WAR (according to bbref, if I read it correctly), while Cutch was worth .7 WAR (according to the info above). As a Mariners fan I am slightly worried that Felix could start regressing, but again, if someone is going to pull the argument that Cutch had one bad year and can be expected to bounceback (which I’m not opposed to, and in fact, hope he does) than why would it be unreasonable to expect Felix to do the same? Yes velocity declines with age, but it’s not like his best pitch is his fastball, it his changeup and curve and his ability to locate those and create movement with them.
How quickly the mighty have fallen. See you in another 20 years, Pitt.
Aren’t we feeling frisky after the Cubs first World Series championship in 108 years? Just need 4 more and than you’ll equal the Pirates output of the last 108 years. See you in another 108 years, Chi.
Cutch is holding an imaginary cigarette.
lol that’s a good one
I don’t know exactly what the trade would be but think the trade for Cutch would start with Paxton and either Lewis or O’Neil
I think Paxton alone gets it done but doubt he’s going to be on the table as he’s DiPoto’s best starter. Same for O’Neill, he’ll be off limits.
i’d pass on Paxton too, mainly due to health issues
The Pirates are not going to take low A or AA prospects for Cutch.
McCutchen and Watson for Gohara, Unsworth, Peterson, and Altavilla.
I’d take that deal in a heartbeat
If I was the Mariners
That wouldn’t be anywhere near enough for both
Well, what’s it look like to you? Watson couldn’t add too much value coming off of a bad season and owed ~$6 mil right? Let’s say he’s worth Peterson or Unsworth on his own at most, yeah?.. That’s three pretty good prospects for Mccutchen. Seems fairly balanced to me, Pirates won’t get that much if he takes another dump in the spring.
What are the Pirates thinking…? Why trade cutch, makes little sense to me. They wanna be the same team from 5 years ago???
Hardly the same team from five years ago. Five years ago Cutch was our best player and our starting roster included guys like Garrett Jones, Jose Tabata, Ronny Cedeno, Lyle Overbay, and Mike McHenry. Our rotation was fronted by Charlie Morton and James McDonald. Today, Cutch is probably the third best OF on the team behind Marte and Polanco. Yes, he may bounce back offensively, but he will have to have a huge bounceback to offset the terrible defensive numbers.
Gohara, DJ Peterson, Drew Jackson, and Joe Rizzo for McCutchen and Travis MacGregor. As much as Pirate fans would love to see O’Neil or Lewis is a deal for McCutchen you’d get Lewis or O’Neil and a bunch of lower tier players due to how much control a team would have over McCutchen. Something like Lewis or O’Neil, a guy in the 10-20 range, and a guy outside the top 20.
If the Mariners got back Watson instead of MacGregor I’d be good with that deal, I just don’t think the Pirates would be.
Bucs will likely get 3 pe
Why are you even considering McCutchen, tons of question marks and you would need to give up top-tier prospects to get him. Get Jon Jay on a short-term deal for at most 10 million a year and get a solid lead off hitter with good defense
I don’t see where the Mariners have the pieces.
I think the Nationals could be a fit if they lose Melancon.
Cutch and Tony Watson for one of either Gio Gonzalez or Tanner Roark and one of Lucas Giolito or Joe Ross…how’s that for a starting point?
So we’ve got some folks who suggest McCutchen would command a major league starter and elite prospect
AND some who suggest he’s not worth a single prospect in the organizational top 30.
While I tend to think his value is closer to the first, it’s interesting to see the polar range of views.
yeah, with his ‘bounce back’ second half.. still wasn’t on par with what we’d expect from Cutch.. still suggests his troubles where clearing up…. hopefully….
I was hoping the Pirates would deal for Roark last offseason when his place in the Nat’s rotation was shaky. Now I think he is pretty much untouchable unless we are trading Marte or Polanco as opposed to Cutch.
McCutchen would sure stabilize the Cardinals outfield with all of his speed. Plus he’d be a welcome sight in a regular batting order. That is if Mathaney actually knows what a routine batting order is supposed to look like!!!!!!
Nightmare scenario would be trading Cutch within the division and having him return to form and keep us from getting back to the playoffs. I don’t think there is any way he goes to the Cards.
Cutch is close to a salary dump, you don’t see teams flooding the Bucs with great offers. Pirate fans need to buy some tickets so you can keep a few of your players.
The Pirates will be treading water until their local TV expires. They signed it before the DVR revolution caused TV networks to pay through the nose for live sports.
They are getting peanuts compared to most teams.
I think it’s up in two years or so.
It does look like McCutchen could continue to regress. His strikeouts have gone up three straight years, while his batting average has dropped for three straight years.
His K rate and walk rate are fine though. Even last year. And he hit 292 with an OBP of 401 and OPS of 889 two years ago. Not exactly reason for alarm. His second half points to rebound. Does need move to a corner OF
With starting pitching at such a premium right now, McCutchen would not be worth a number 1 or 2 starter, for sure. Maybe a number 3, and a mid-range prospect, which could be a top 30.
Cutch is 30 with one year and an option year left. This is great for team looking at him as it is both low risk and high reward at same time affordable. In the last 2 months Cutch was at his career numbers and hit 284 in 2nd half. There seem to be a lot of teams interested in him and for these reasons the Bucs will get good return. The Bucs will insist on Walker or Paxton. I don’t see a deal unless a third team is involved without Paxton or Walker.
Maybe Walker but not Paxton, and they have Karns as well who might be worth as much as Walker at this point since he’s pre-arb and has a minor league option.
M’s don’t have much room to deal from MLB ready controllable SP. Some decent pitching prospects in the system though.
I don’t know a lot about Karns to be honest. I know the Bucs like Walker and have talked about him in the past. I think,
Walker, O’Neil, Petersen, Altavilla, Gohara for Cutch, Kuhl and Watson? That is a huge deal though. A lot of parts.
Seattle won’t trade O’Neil.
Way too many pieces for any team to give up. Ludicrous.
I think Walker is far more valuable than both Karns and Paxton.
He’s 24 next season. Paxton is 28 and Karns is 29.
And he’s without a doubt a far better pitcher than Karns, and most would say better than Paxton, too.. Sure, not the most consistent, but neither are the other two. Walker’s end line is better than the other two, and he’s show much brighter flashes of dominance (like his three hit, eleven strikeout complete game shutout against the Angels this season). Walker’s also a much higher pedigree pitcher (it was just a few years ago that he was a three-time top 20 prospect), and it’s very easy to see him improving. And on top of that, Walker is more reliable than Paxton, health-wise. He’s coming off 25 and 29 start seasons, while Paxton has had injuries derail every season of his career so far.
And as far as the contracts go, all three have four years of team control left. All four are arbitration years for Paxton and Walker while Karns has one year pre-arb.
Many many fans want to believe that McCutchen is regressing. Every fan around MLB would love to have McCutchen in their outfield. This guy is far from past his prime. Guys like Beltran or Nelson Cruz have worse numbers then McCutchen and still get pretty sizeable offers. They even sign onto bigger contracts after they where out their “prime”. Fans want to sell him low in hopes of losing nothing of value and gaining one of the best OFers in the game. This guy is MVP, gold glove, and experience in postseason play that would help any team. I believe McCutchens numbers dropped was because he was told to play shallow in the outfield. He was getting burned because of the logic Hurdle had of playing the outfield shorter. I think last year was a HUGE mistake for McCutchen career and disappointed in Huntington for “wasting” talent that McCutchen has.
McCutchen is can be one of the elite players in the game. He may even raise eye brows as MVP again. Shifting McCutchen to Left field, isn’t a bad idea. I think that will improve his overall value going forward in his career. He can definitely run and cover some ground defensively. His bat will come back when he starts believing in his coaches again. I am telling you, Hurdle and Huntington blew it this year with McCutchen. Any likely hood of him signing on to finish his career in the ‘Burgh (as we had hoped), has gone from 30% to 0% due to their poor decisions regarding McCutchen. If any trade is made, any team he goes too, will improve with professionally while adding a elite player with 5-10 years left. That is a long term contract on today’s era……. just say!
Thinking of a deal where the Braves send Nick Markakis, Jim Johnson and Touki Toussaint to the Pirates for Andrew McCutchen, David Freese and Elias Diaz.
I’m thinking that never takes place. Pittsburgh gives up a former MVP and perennial all-star, plus other useful pieces for a middle reliever, a 2 WAR OF and a decent pitching prospect? They wouldn’t even save much money if any on the deal.