The Mariners and Diamondbacks completed one of the largest trades of the young offseason last night, as Seattle sent right-hander Taijuan Walker and infielder Ketel Marte to Arizona in exchange for shortstop Jean Segura, outfielder Mitch Haniger and lefty reliever Zac Curtis in a trade that should have a longstanding impact on each organization. The lack of available starting pitching, both in free agency and in trades, has been well documented and played a role in the deal for both teams, as Arizona GM Mike Hazen and Seattle GM Jerry Dipoto explained to reporters in a pair of Wednesday night conference calls (links via Nick Piecoro of the Arizona Republic and Ryan Divish of the Seattle Times).
“When we looked at the pitching that’s out on the market, we felt like this was an opportunity we had to take right now,” said Hazen of the trade. “Obviously, Jean is a great fit for them and was for us, but in order for us to get a starting pitcher the caliber of Taijuan, we felt like this was the opportunity we had to take given the market. It takes a lot of starting pitching to get through the season.”
Indeed, the D-backs will add Walker to a rotation mix that features Zack Greinke, Shelby Miller, Patrick Corbin, Robbie Ray, Rubby De La Rosa, Braden Shipley and Archie Bradley. The magnitude of this trade and Walker’s solid results to this point in his career — 4.18 ERA, 8.1 K/9, 2.5 BB/9, 41.5 percent ground-ball rate in 357 innings — should effectively guarantee him a spot in new manager Torey Lovullo’s rotation. Piecoro projects Walker to be joined by Greinke, Miller, Corbin and Ray on that front, and the remaining three righties could serve as either bullpen pieces, depth options in the minors or trade fodder thanks to the increased depth brought by Walker’s acquisition. Parting with Walker was painful for the Mariners, Dipoto admitted.
“It’s always hard when you give up talent like Taijuan,” said Dipoto. “You have to give to get and in this case we feel like we are getting a little bit more of a known commodity and we understand that Taijuan takes with him the upside to achieve something greater than we’ve seen. I know that’s real. At some point, Tai is going to put it all together and he will find himself as a pitcher.’
Walker, though, was only one part of the equation for the Snakes, and Hazen sounded excited about the opportunity to add a high-upside middle infielder like Marte. The switch-hitting 24-year-old already has parts of two MLB seasons under his belt, and though his sophomore campaign didn’t live up to a tremendous rookie season that came at the age of 21 (.283/.351/.402, two homers, eight steals in 247 plate appearances), Marte still carries plenty of upside and could be a long-term piece at shortstop or at second base.
“We think there’s definitely some upside in the bat and the defensive ability, and the speed and the athleticism,” said Hazen of Marte. And, as Piecoro notes, the trade could free up some at-bats for Brandon Drury (at second base), which Hazen acknowledged was a contributing factor in the decision. Drury hit .282/.329/.458 in his rookie season last year, showing great promise at the plate, but the presence of Segura at second base and Jake Lamb at third base pushed the natural infielder to left field. Drury struggled in left (-7 in both DRS and UZR), but he’ll have an opportunity to compete for regular time at second base next year.
Both GMs noted that Segura comes with significant appeal, and Dipoto offered confidence that his new shortstop’s 2016 breakout wasn’t a flash in the pan. “Segura was one of the premiere offensive players in the Majors last season,” said the second-year Mariners GM. “His combination of average, power and speed is extremely difficult to find, especially at a position like shortstop and at the top of our lineup. We believe pairing him with Robinson Canó gives us tremendous offensive potential in the middle of our infield.”
The Mariners, though, acquired a pair of pieces that could contribute to the team as soon as the 2017 season as well in Haniger and Curtis. Their proximity to the Majors also played a role in making this trade, according to Dipoto, who spoke quite highly of Haniger in particular. “We see Haniger as a high-ceiling prospect who projects to join our outfield as soon as next season, while Zac Curtis’ track record in the minors gives us great confidence in his future as a big league pitcher,” Dipoto explained.
While neither Haniger nor Curtis has been regarded as a premium prospect, Haniger laid waste to the admittedly hitter-friendly Pacific Coast League last year, batting .341/.428/.670 with 20 homers in just 312 Triple-A plate appearances. With Nori Aoki departing via waivers while Franklin Gutierrez hits the open market and Stefen Romero heads to Japan, the Mariners have some outfield at-bats up for grabs. The right-handed-hitting Haniger could complement lefty swingers Ben Gamel and Seth Smith quite nicely in the corners, and his Triple-A success lends some hope to his ability to be a starter.
As for the lost rotation depth, Dipoto expressed confidence that the organization has enough remaining talent to survive a full season, but he also acknowledged that he’ll pursue additional help. “We are going to look at the free agent market,” he said. “We are certainly not opposed at potential for trades. We still feel like in the big picture that we are 10-11 deep with guys that we feel secure in starting a Major League game. We are comfortable with that group, but we’d like to augment it.”
While the trade market offers a limitless number of avenues for upgrade, free agency brings a lesser supply. Rich Hill, Jason Hammel and Ivan Nova are the top three starters on this year’s free-agent market, though Seattle’s pitcher-friendly environment could certainly be an appealing setting for one of the numerous rebound candidates that are available. Names like Brett Anderson and Derek Holland are both available, as are former Angels C.J. Wilson and Jered Weaver, each of whom pitched for Dipoto’s teams in Anaheim.
Interesting. Diamondbacks’ approach reminds me somewhat of the Dodgers in terms of stocking up on starting pitching, albeit different circumstances (Shelby Miller, Corbin even). This team really underperformed last year. I look for them to at least go .500 next year with a now healthy team.
Adding walker to greinke miller and corbin gives the dbacks a solid 4 in the rotation, with a healthy offense, they can push for a wildcard.
You didn’t even mention Robbie Ray who is probably their second best starter behind greinke
Agreed. Robbie Ray is a strikeout machine.
As much as I want to agree with that being a solid 4, Miller was historically awful last season and Corbin has really struggled since TJ. Robbie Ray stepped up, though. If they can all even, at minimum, come close to 4.00 ERAs that would make a world of a difference. The fact that they even won 69 games with a team ERA of 5.09 (worst in the majors) is a testament to their offense.
If their pitching can bounce back and put era’s under 4 and with a healthy offense, they can contend for a wildcard spot
They just lost 5 wins from last years’ team with moving segura and missed a wc by over 15 last year. Even with health, i imagine their projections are still not favorable for making a wc run
Well, they were also without Pollock, which gives that WAR back. Theoretically, if each pitcher improves even minimally as well you’re getting a win per pitcher which brings them to 75ish wins. This team is too talented to be as bad as they were last year. I’m not ready to declare them wild card threats, but I don’t think 81-81 is out of the question. They would be wise to add another arm to the bullpen, too.
Except they didn’t lose 5 wins by moving Segura. Segura will be replaced by Owings or Drury. Either one will give 2 wins, Owings possibly 3. Then they picked up Walker, who even if he only proved 1 win, becomes a 2-win upgrade on anyone else in the rotation from 2016 not named Greinke. That’s 5-wins. At worst, Walker is a bust and the team saves $4.5 million in 2017, a year they are expected (right now) to finish under .500. Best-case, Walker figures it out and the Diamondbacks get all of Segura’s 2016 production and then some out of Walker alone in 2017.
Walker hasn’t had a 1 WAR season yet and he is moving from an extreme pitchers park to an extreme hitters park. What makes you think he is going to do better now? Neither Owings nor Drury have had even a 2 WAR season, what makes you think they will suddenly leap up to a 3? Drury was -.03 WAR over 134 games in 2016 and Owings was 0.6 WAR over 119 games in 2016 after a -1.4 WAR in 2015. If they all double their WAR, that is about a 1.2 WAR from all 3 of them.
If you consider Walker solid. I don’t. He had a 4.22 ERA/4.99 FIP. Ranks him among the bottom third in the league. He was just as bad in 2015. He was hurt both seasons and had ankle surgery on Oct 17th this year. He is going from one of the best pitchers parks in baseball to one of the worst. His k/9 should go up a tick because of seeing pitchers at least 2 at bats every game, but everything else should get worse. Maybe they move him to the pen where not having a decent secondary pitch will not be exposed so much. The Dbacks do need a setup man and closer.
You may be getting too invested in the numbers. Walker was excellent at times and battled injury, and bouts of seeming lack of concentration at times, and some questionable pitch selection IMO.
While this deal is certainly surprising, I think the best pickup the Dbacks will get all winter is a healthy AJ Pollock. The instant he went down, it just seemed like Arizona was deflated. I think that they’re a different team with them. I also don’t think Greinke will be quite so bad in his second year in AZ. I look for them to definitely contend next season, at least for a wild card spot.
I like the move for both teams, they both acquired something that they needed. Hopeful that Walker can put it together for us in 2017
A’s can now ask a bundle for Gray…
I think the last I read is that they were selling low on gray. I think the cubs and A’s are a perfect fit for that trade. But I don’t see the cubs making anymore moves for pitching until they find out what they are doing with Arrieta.
I think they’ve made it pretty clear what they are doing with Jake. Offering him an extension they feel comfortable with and moving on if he doesn’t take it.
A’s are not selling low on Gray and if the Cubs want Gray they better be ready to surrender Happ and Jimenez. GM Pitt won’t make another Josh Donaldson-esque mistake
Miss him as the Angels GM. He is no puppet and Scioscia did not like that…. Unlike Eppler.
Was it all Dipoto’s fault for the bad contracts, or do we put all of that on Artie?
Seeing as Dipoto never wanted to sign Hamilton at all and had to be talked into Pujols by Moreno, I’d say blame Moreno.
Personally, I put Hamilton and Pujols contracts on Arte. Only the owner could approve the deal Pujols received, and it was clear Arte ramrodded the Hamilton signing.
A GM could write a deal like Wilson’s, for example, but no GM has the financial authority to write a deal like Pujols’. That would need to be signed off at multiple levels, and it is known Arte had personal meetings with Pujols during the courtship phase. Likewise, he met with Hamilton before that deal went forward, and my guess is the Angels overpaid both $$$ and length to close the negotiations. Doubtful Hamilton would have received the AAV or 5 guaranteed years from any other club.
Hamilton was not needed , all they needed was pitching and a bullpen. But Artie decided to spend on hamilton. Also could of brought back hunter
It was Moreno’s decision to go after Hamilton and to let Greinke walk. Dipoto had been charging hard to bring Greinke back to the Angels until Moreno spent so liberally on Hamilton instead, leaving Dipoto with nothing left with which to sign Greinke.
That was Moreno. He wanted “superstar” players so he could sell billboards and season tickets.
Artie overrode DiPoto on both Pujols and Hamilton. Now the whole team is paying the price. Hopefully, in Seattle DiPoto has autonomy on signings.
Sorry but Dipoto was not a very good GM for the Angels. He shoved his one dimensional station to station philosophy down everyone’s throat instead of working WITH Scioscia and his staff. He tried too hard to be Billy Beane 2.0 when the Angels should be an action team constantly moving runners with a focus on run prevention. He refused to spend money on speed on the bases and arms in the bullpen. That’s why the Angels stopped running and why they bullpen was so bad. And you don’t go over your coaching staff’s head. The players even sided with Scioscia during that whole debacle. And Dipoto quit on his team during a pennant race. Now he’s stuck in Seattle of all places. The Mariners can have him.
Mariners are in a farrrr better position than the Angels right now
Wait the angels were in a pennant race that year? Really? The angels haven’t been in a pennant race since 2009! Maybe Dipoto was on to something with his analytics stuff and the idiots in Anaheim were too smug to see it because he’s turned Seattle into one of the best teams in the AL while the angels have become one of the worst teams in the AL.
I’m an A’s fan but I’ll admit I’m slightly jelly of that Mariners infield. It has to be one of the best in baseball now that they’ve got Segura.
Seager – 5.5 WAR, Segura – 5.0 WAR, Cano – 6.0 WAR, Valencia – 1.1 WAR. If Valencia plays most of his time at 1B, instead of extended time at 3B and the OF, that WAR will go up. I can’t think of another team in the AL has that good of an infield.
Segura is moving from a great hitters park to a great pitching one. I’m guessing he’s more like a 2-3 win player in 2017. Remember, he was one of the worst players in baseball in 14-15.
Scioscia is the king of two singles and a 3 run homer philosophy. His teams are always near the bottom in sacrifice hits. From 2009-2015 his teams never ranked higher than 16th (2012) and averaged 20th in MLB in sacs. In terms of extra bases taken by baserunners, they rank 15-24th for those years. They have always been a station to station team. Can’t blame that on DiPoto.
DiPoto did draft Trout, right? Nuff said. Lol.
I hate this trade. I understand that Walker has been consistently inconsistent or hurt, but I can’t stop shaking the feeling that they undersold on him. I also don’t understand Dipoto’s insistence on an upgrade at the SS position when Marte was suitable enough. I guess only time will tell, but I see this trade similar to the Erik Bedard-Adam Jones trade way back…trade one of our best young guys (who turns out to be good) for a guy who isn’t anything special.
It’s almost a surety that Segura will be three times the player that Marte is in 2017. This move is about the Mariners getting better today, and having to pay the price for doing so by giving up on some of the potential future. Depending on how some talent develops, the Mariners have a window of 2, maybe 3 years in which to make the big push. If they haven’t made it by then, they will be deep into the realm of having to consider blowing things up.
Marte or Walker may become something in the future, but if it is more than 2 years away, and the Seattle does not find the talent to reach the playoffs by then, they might very well be headed out anyway. This is absolutely a “win-now” move.
Walker is the poster boy for unrequited potential. 65 starts over 4 seasons with a 4.18 ERA and 4.30 FIP. Injuries in 2014, 2015, and 2016 including surgery on Oct 17th of this year. He is moving from one of the best pitchers parks in MLB to one of the best hitters parks. Because he doesn’t have a plus secondary pitch, Walker may be destined for the bullpen if he struggles again this year.
Marte was a negative WAR on both defense and offense in 2016. He did nothing well and in the 2nd half completely collapsed. He is young, so he could rebound, but he has no power so he will never contribute as much as Segura who can both play plus defense and hit for average and power. It’s the difference between a 2-3 WAR ceiling for Marte IF, and that is a big IF, Marte can rebound versus a 5 WAR potential for Segura.
5 WAR is a special player. Top 10 for infielders in the AL or NL. On the Dbacks, not even Goldschmidt was that good last season. Even if Segura regresses to the 3.5 WAR he put up in 2013 (prior to his sons illness and death in 2014), he is an All Star caliber player.
Marte just doesnt have that potential. Walker has All Star ceiling, but most don’t see that happening, especially since he is moving to the hitters paradise called Chase Field.
Segura also is a much worse shortstop than he is a second baseman. That plus moving to a much worse park for hitting should knock him down a bit in terms of WAR.
The Bedard-Jones trade was horrible not because of a one-for-one, but because it depleted the farm system of numerous prospects. Bedard had been an all-star, but as with many pitchers injuries curtailed his M’s career (and his psychological problems…not willing to throw more than 100 pitches).
Last year, when the Diamondbacks and Brewers traded IF Jean Segura for IF Aaron Hill and SP Chase Anderson, I thought the Brewers had the better of the deal. In retrospect, the Diamondbacks overwhelmingly got the best of the trade.
This is absolutely a “wait and see” type trade. The Mariners seem to be “in the hunt” and need to upgrade SS. I hope it works out for both teams
Last years Brewers/Dbacks trade is a “wait and see” deal as well. You left out that Milwaukee acquired 20 year old shortstop Isan Diaz who is a top 60 prospect in all baseball.
Diaz is listed at #96 on MLB. but yeah he may be a productive 2B in 3 years.
As a Braves fan, I’m glad this presumably frees up time for Drury at 2B. He had an impressive ’16 and hope he builds on that. ARZ needs to get something from that J-Up deal to ATL.
Dbacks seem like they got slot of SP now I wonder if another deal is in the works.
Greinke, Ray, Walker, Miller, Corbin or Archie Bradley. I would imagine Braden Shipley and Banda. start in AAA and get calls up. Corbin may go to the pen because he looked great there(along with Godley). Not tons of depth but the team looks solid…on paper.
What did Drury do that was impressive? That negative WAR certainly wasn’t. His defense was atrocious. His BABIP will regress and with it his batting average, OBP, and OPS, so his projections for 2017 are to be a zero WAR player. In other words, about as valuable as any AAA level player.
Drury did well. He was a Thirdbaseman playing Second, Left Field all year. Much of time in Left. He’d never played there before and wasn’t very good, but did improve. Much of the negative WAR is from playing positions he had no good reason to play other than that it gave him a chance to play. He started off hitting, then went very cold and warmed up the rest of the season. He adapted to big league pitching and looked very solid by the end of his first year playing roughly half the time.
Putting Drury in at 2nd is a wonderful idea and he’ll surely hit more HR and possibly get more hit and for certain draw more walks than Segura. Best case he has about the same WAR as Segura.
It wasn’t totally looked at as an upgrade at the SS position so much as an upgrade at the lead off spot in the lineup. They had to pick a position that would be able to upgrade the lead off spot in the batting order so by Marte and hello Seguera.
As a Brave fan this trade impacts me in absolutely no way at all but I think it was a real good trade in the sense it helps both teams now and not so much immidiately for 1 team and down the road for the other.
I like Jerry… Kind of resembles A’s Billy Beane when making those incredible trades – bold or not – that made the A’s competitive. Unfortunately, nowadays under current A’s brass Billy is just a minority owner and well he no longer has the kind of muscle – or authority – to pull those kind of trades anymore…
Uh, moving up from GM to VPBO and part-owner isn’t a reduction in authority
Sorry he is a minority owner not part owner there is a difference…
Being a “minority” owner means you own a share of less than half the team…making you a part owner. Don’t look at the word minority as a negative, it’s simply there to imply a certain percentage.
I have to agree with JD396, getting a promotion and owning part of the club wouldn’t lessen your authority, it would give you more.
Funny that Dipoto was the guy that traded Segura from the Angels for Zack Greinke and now he’s acquired him for one of their rivals…
What I think most people is over looking the M’s know their winning window will be short. King Felix, starting pitching, and Cano are getting old. Time for them to go for it. Lots of older players on their team so make the most of their opportunity.
It also helps that the A’s are in a rebuild and the angels are disappointingly bad every year. I think the M’s are shooting for the wild card. With Felix they can and should be able to beat anybody in a wild card game. And their combination of power-offense/power-bullpen should make them tough to beat in a 5-7 game series.
All the angels need is some pitching, another arm for the bullpen and I think they are ready to go, plus another bat.
Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
AZ finally has a real gm thank god
That’s how i felt when the Cubs signed Theo. Enjoy! Hopefully playing in Arizona half the year and Coors every now and then doesn’t mess with Walkers head. I’ve heard hes still very immature and not as dedicated to his craft as management had hoped.
Change of scenery could be what he needs. Oh, and his gf is very hot! Lol.
At least Shelby Miller had had a good year before the Dbacks traded for him. Walker has never had even a decent season in his 4 partial years in the majors and he has been hurt in 3 of the 4. Shoulder and knee in 2014, shoulder and hip in 2015, and neck, foot, and ankle injuries including ankle surgery on Oct 17th in 2016. Those are just the injuries that caused him to miss games or be placed on the DL. Are the Diamondbacks just snakebit in their trades for pitchers?
I love big trades like this. When both sides are unhappy, you know it’s a fair deal.
As a fan of the GM game, I like Dipoto. He seems to have a clear view of how he wants to construct his roster. Too many GMs just want to get “good players” or buy stats. Not Dipoto.
As a somewhat disinterested AL East fan, I’ve got to admire Dipoto. He keeps making these “under the radar” type deals, and usually gets the best of them. When he got there, the Ms were a dumpster fire; he’s pretty much turned it around, without much fanfare.
That lineup looks strong,and, ya I was waiting for Walker to “get it” too; just never happened in one of the most pitcher friendly parks; going to one of the most hitter friendly ones may not portend well.
The mariners .might as well fire sale. No one will take canos contract
They’re not looking to trade Cano. And why would they fire sale? They’re trying to get a winning team now, not years down the road. They haven’t been to the playoffs since 2001.
Let me see, you can trade for a starting pitcher that has front end potential and you do not need to give up the number 1 overall pick in last years draft, a gold glove OF, and a potential starting pitcher. Who knew.