Major League Baseball has set the order of the competitive balance component of the 2017 draft, per MLB.com’s Jonathan Mayo. That establishes a new overall draft order, though remaining outcomes on players who declined qualifying offers will serve to modify the final slate.
As Mayo explains, there are some notable changes to the system under the new collective bargaining agreement. Unlike the old lottery system, there’s now a procedure in place to sort among the teams that are eligible to participate — i.e., those that are in the bottom ten league-wide in terms of revenue and/or market size. The new formula “takes revenue and winning percentage into account,” per Mayo.
In another twist, once the teams are ordered and sorted between Round A (after the first round) and Round B (after the second), that grouping will flip-flop from year to year. In other words, the teams that choose in Round A in 2017 will get to participate in Round B in 2018, and vice versa. That process will continue throughout the duration of the recently agreed-upon CBA, which runs through the year 2021. For the coming draft, six teams will participate in the higher portion.
The order reported by Mayo is somewhat tentative in nature, as Competitive Balance draft picks can be traded once the season starts (but only traded once). Furthermore, teams signing qualifying offer free agents could slightly alter the exact positioning of these picks in the 2017 draft. Here’s the current order, per Mayo’s report:
Competitive Balance Round A
- Tampa Bay Rays (No. 31 overall)
- Cincinnati Reds (32)
- Oakland Athletics (33)
- Milwaukee Brewers (34)
- Minnesota Twins (35)
- Miami Marlins (36)
Competitive Balance Round B
- Arizona Diamondbacks (No. 67 overall)
- San Diego Padres (68)
- Colorado Rockies (69)
- Cleveland Indians (70)
- Kansas City Royals (71)
- Pittsburgh Pirates (72)
- Baltimore Orioles (73)
- St. Louis Cardinals (74)
St Louis shouldn’t get one, IMO
good to know. thanks.
He’s saying they shouldn’t get one because of the Astros hacking incident. Which I agree, their penalty should be larger.
is he though? Also, larger than what? It hasn’t been announced. You can’t really say it should be larger when you don’t know what it will be.
Larger than a 2nd round competitive balance pick.
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They have a small market. Arkansas to New Mexico (minus Texas) with a large swath into central Indiana and Illinois. Why would that _not_ be considered small?
Give the hacking nonsense a rest. You all sound like a bunch of whiners. They’ll get their punishment and they will still be the St. Louis Cardinals at the end of the day.
I know, what a tragedy…
So your assertion is that the Cardinals can absorb whatever penalty is handed to them because they are a well run, quality organization. I agree. But then that begs the question, why did they feel the need to cheat and hack into another club’s database?
I guess you could ask the ONE GUY who did it,but he got fired eons ago.
The court: Did you find any Cardinals information in the computer?
The defendant: I did, your honor
The court: Who did you tell?
The defendant: Colleagues
The court: At the Cardinals?
The defendant: Yeah
Just bc they have die hard followers and sell a ton of tickets bc people go to games does not mean they are in a large market…st Louis is by no means a large metropolitan city…it’s actually quite small in comparison
huh?
Basically he’s saying you don’t know what a team’s “market” is.
30 owners agreed to this. The Cardinals didn’t get it by accident. They are in one of the 10 smallest markets no matter how much they win.
so is san francisco, it is only roughly 7×7 miles.(49 sqmi for those that can’t do math), St louis is roughly 66 sq mi – SF has a higher population but a more densely packed population of cities around it.
The market argument makes no sense because teams like miami and oakland are considered large market teams because of population density. If you really wanted to figure out ‘market’ that way you would have to take the team and the next nearest team distance and divide the population in 2 –
I guess what you’re saying is that very few people want to live there. . .I really don’t mean that, just channeling my inner Don Rickles.
St. Louis was the 21st largest market in 2013. I’d assume that hasn’t changed much since then. The city itself, however, is relatively small. About half the size of Boston.
The Cards are 7th in overall team value,
8th in total revenue,
2nd in total attendance (2cnd last 4 years) haven’t been lower than 8th in 19 years
They’ve won the central 9 of the last 17 years – been in the playoffs 12 of last 17 – 2 World Series Rings – One sub .500 season in the last 17 years.
Better help em out.
It’s a black and white formula. They barely fit into that criteria.
Neither should KC, Pittsburgh or Baltimore. IMO
KC should since they essentially play second fiddle to St. Louis. Same could be said about Pittsburgh (with the Phillies) and Baltimore essentially shares a market with the Nats (although have the benefit of being in the area longer). What also comes into play is revenue. I’m sure those three teams don’t make nearly as much revenue from sponsors, TV deals, etc., as some other “bigger market” teams.
Just because they’re in the same state doesn’t mean squat, Pittsburgh shares nothing with Philly.
Pittsburgh is closer to Cleveland than anywhere. May I recommend a map?
Yes! Finally that draft pick my Cardinals deserve for being in a small market. It’s about time MLB starts helping us out.
since they don’t have a thumbs up button anymore, Thumps Up! Thanks MLB.
Is your name stl_cards16 because you were born in the year 2016??
The cards got a comp. balance A pick in 2015…..
Nah. I’m well aware. Just beating the “boo hoo how do the Cardinals get a pick”
I have to admit, I really thought I’d get a better response out of a few. Quire disappointed.
**side note. Did a bunch of really old people just join or something? I’ve had a few comments about the “16” in my username over the past ~month after going 10+ years with the same username and no one bringing it up.
Pretty confident that was sarcasm
Cards have gotten a round 1 or 2 every year since the mlb inacted the rule
This is not true. But hey, it’s your story!
Cant find the history of picks, but did find that they have had one the last four years
Odd to see the 2015 World Champs on there, but whatever…
I want to hear the argument of why they shouldn’t get one. Winning a World Series with cheap talent doesn’t have anything to do with size
If they picked these teams strictly by attendance, no one would complain – and would be more variation in teams getting them in there, as teams get better/worse, their attendance goes up/down (in theory).
But attendance has nothing to do with a team’s market…..
That’s not a great theory. Example: 2016 Cleveland Indians
more money is made on TV than in the stands for most teams.
Its should go by a teams income and not market. The cards draw well in a large stadium. no one goes to rays game, even when they have a competitive team.
Go Cubbies
Ha. So your assertion is that teams should be rewarded for failing to capture the interest of their customers.
Brilliant.
It is by income. Namely, the sources of income.
Yes, the Cardinals get a ton of money from attendance. But until 2018, when their new TV deal kicks in, they get scraps from tv revenue, which fuels teams like the Dodgers, Yankees, Red Sox, and the Chicago teams.
The whole point of the pick is to help teams who do not have available to them all of the resources of big market teams. While the Cardinals draw well, but that’s pretty much the only source of revenue. They currently pull less TV revenue than the Twins, Padres, and Indians. That’s the result of being in one of the smallest television markets in baseball–even if they get great ratings, it doesn’t matter to the television companies shelling out the money.
Go read this 2012 article from Fangraphs to get an idea of the revenue gap between MLB teams:: fangraphs.com/blogs/dodgers-send-shock-waves-throu…
And Fangraphs ran another story this past spring on estimated television revenue for teams in 2016: fangraphs.com/blogs/estimated-tv-revenues-for-all-…
you people make this same crap arguement St. Louis shouldn’t get a comp round pick but NEVER do anything about it. could be their tv market. deal with it or stfu.
Yet, they still overall pull in well above average revenue seeing as their payrolls are consistently in the upper middle class of MLB teams.
in fairness what are they supposed to do letter writing campaign? suicide bomb mlb headquarters? something in between?
Well… we really don’t get to decide… so yeah
It’s not always the team’s fault for not “capturing the interest of their customers”. The Rays, a few years ago, were a really good team yet their attendance continued to remain low. Are we going to punish them because their fans don’t attend games?
Yes, I know there’s a difference between small market and small revenue, but presumably payroll is a rough approximation
Here’s the 2016 payroll for the teams in need of competitive balance picks (rounded)
Tampa $67M
Reds: $90M
Oakland: $87M
Brewers $64M
Minn: $105M
Miami: $74M
Arizona $98M
San Diego: $99M
Colorado $113M
Cleveland $96M
KC $131M
Pitt: $100M
Balt: $148M
St. L $145M
clearly, some of these teams need assistance (and let’s not pay attention to Loria) but, for example, St. Louis has a team valuation of 7th highest in all MLB in Forbes’ rating.. The Royals showed operating income of $39M, with that budget, the Cardinals $60M in operating income. Shouldn’t we be focussing competitive balance picks on teams a lot closer to the edge?
How does Baltimore get a pick here? Is there such a thing as a small market on the East Coast?
Baltimore also gets 40% of Nats TV revenue for letting them in that market
If you honestly think the Cardinals are a small market team you have no idea what you’re talking about. They ranked 2nd in attendance this year and 2nd in tv viewership after being 1st last year. They just signed a huge tv deal that is one billion dollars over a 15 year span. I think they’re doing just fine. They’re just not a fan of spending money when they can develop it through the system
the diamondbacks have a 1.5 billion dollar tv deal, no one is complaining about them being on the list
The DBacks have nowhere near the national following that the Cardinals have. I do agree that the Cardinals aren’t the only team on this list that shouldn’t receive a pick though. However, the Cards do rake in a lot more money than most large market teams. They are typically in the top 5 in attendance, revenue, & won of the most valuable MLB franchises, so it’s hard to keep saying they’re a small market club
They also doled out 7/120 to Holliday, which is not a thing the A’s have ever done, they gave 6/66 to Chavez, that’s their only big deal, and the Rays have only given out one big contract to Longo. The Cardinals do not operate like a small market team, but its just that literally everyone there is a Cardinals fan, because there’s nothing else to do in that boring-ass city.
I think it’s absurd that AZ and SD pick before CLV and KC. But they have front-offices with issues, so they choose earlier.
I wasn’t consulted.
Yah but just by being in the 5th largest city they Arizona is likely to have or will get a bigger TV deal than the cards did.
Having a small market can lead to large revenue if you DRAW the fans. Stop whining because a winning team gets a comp pick! Winning and revenue do not determine the comp picks.
Surely, there’s no objective formula that MLB uses or anything, right?…
So if they are winning & bringing in as more revenue why do they need a competitive balance pick. It’s to help out small struggling teams that can’t keep their stars once they reach FA, not high revenue teams to get extra picks
@ cgvillo12==Its TELEVISION market. Yes, they are one of the smallest tv markets in baseball, and the revenue they get from television is among the bottom 10 in the league. The new contract, which kicks in for 2018, should help change that, but it’s $1 billion spread over 15 years.,
According to Nielsen, the company that actually knows the size of television markets because they track it themselves, the Cardinals have the 21st largest tv market in baseball–behind the Diamondbacks and Indians.
If only 1 million people went to yankee games would that make them a small market?
@JustAnotherFan I disagree. There’s also the Blues, the Arch, the Muny (largest outdoor theater in the country), the Science Center (with free admission), the Zoo (also free admission), Six Flags, and so on. Although, yes, we do love our Cardinals.
Cards do really well with what they have, they still have a small market, they just do very well with it, don’t see why the other small markets should get rewarded for not running their teams as well.
Exactly
The Cardinals have a very large national following & big TV deal. They are really in essence a large market team. They receive extra picks every year & can resign stars or top FA if they chose to. They have a good scouting dept, but have a lot more advantages than other “small market” clubs.
You are incorrect on your statement. St. Louis has the extra investment then other low market teams don’t have. St. Louis is capable of signing some top free agents like the Braves can do. Also, St. Louis has investments through TV deals both nationally and locally. Besides, over the last 20+ years, St. Louis has been in the post season. They have a higher success rate with more media attention than (let’s say) Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh will not have a good TV deal until after 2018. This lowering their investment and having to work with what they have. St. Louis on the other hand, can sign a few Free Agents like a Holliday or Beltran because of their TV deals and being in the national spot light. Braves are a small market team and have decreased their spending since losing a few TV deals. Since the 90s, Braves haven’t been as successful. Again, until Cardinals fall out of the “limelight”, they will collect revenue from TV deals and any other cash “ATMs”. If Cleveland or Pittsburgh continue to have success, their revenue increases. That is WHY there is a collective bargaining agreement
The National TV Contract is split evenly between all 30 teams. So a national following doesn’t help anything. They can play on Sunday Night Baseball every week and get the same amount for it as a team that didn’t play on it once.
Actually, you’re incorrect. The Cardinals do not have a national television deal. They have a local television deal that pays them roughly $35 million a year. That;s one of the smallest contracts in the league, and it’s a contract based on their size. The Pirates get only $3 million less than the Cardinals from television revenue.
Their new contract, which goes into affect in 2018, is roughly the same size as the one that the Arizona Diamondbacks signed this year. That’s because market size determines the size of teams’ television contracts, not the success of the team, nor the size of live attendance. And that’s why the Cardinals qualify for the pick, because the pick is designed for teams like them-those who do not have the *sources* of revenue that the large market teams do, not who is making the most money.
Yet the TV contracts are only a piece of overall revenue. Judging by their payrolls, the Cardinals manage above-average revenues overall.
So the Twins will pick 1st, 35th and 37ths. Not bad. That should help bring in some talent to their overrated MiLB system. Just Draft Hunter Greene. He will make any system look 10% better.
rays will pick 4;,33 and 40 ..amiright?
This is such a flawed system. The Cardinals are a top 5 revenue team, yet they receive a competitive balance pick, plus are in the group of teams that receive the largest IFA bonus. The White Sox are in a large market but have very little support bc of the Cubs. Im really surprised the Cardinals weren’t given an exemption to be grouped with large market teams in new CBA since everyone was so concerned about even playing fields
Bill Dewitt is one of the most powerful MLB owners, that’s not happening. But as I mentioned earlier, the Cardinals do really well with what they have, the White Sox have the ability to earn much more especially with a TV contract but they don’t. That’s not something that should be rewarded.
Neither is the way the Cardinals play the system. Those picks should only be given to actual small market clubs that are unable financially to compete with the large market clubs. The White Sox have always been 2nd fiddle to the Cubs, & they will never be the big draw in Chicago. They could move, but couldn’t the same be said about the Cardinals or any other small market team.
I don’t know what the status of the White Sox TV deal is, and while I’m sure it won’t be as big of the cubs, it’s likely to be bigger than the cardinals 1 billion dollar deal just because of the size of the market. Look at the Angels, they got like what 3 billion for their TV contract 5 years ago, Angels are nowhere near as popular as the Cardinals, but just because of the size of the city they get a much bigger TV deal. That’s why it’s fair.
“The way the Cardinals play the system”. Wow, now it’s a conspiracy, and the other 29 teams are all brainwashed by some master scheme.
Yah, you have no idea what you’re talking about if you think the White Sox have the ability to “earn much more.” Chicago has always been, and will always be, a Cubs town. The White Sox should absolutely be considered a small market team despite the fact that they’re technically in a really big market.
Your anti=White Sox rhetoric is, once again, patently false.
Just keep in mind that it’s better to be silent and let people ~think~ you’re an idiot than it is to speak out and leave no doubt.
What’s anti-White Sox about that comment?
The White Sox arent much different than the Indians or Reds. The Cubs have always had more financially well off of the fan base, while the White Sox have a large lower income/working class fan base. The White Sox don’t receive a lot of media attention bc the Cubs have a larger fan base. There isn’t much the CWS can do to increase revenue besides the tv deal. Attendance is an issue bc the stadium is in a high crime area, but it’s a fairly new stadium so it’s not like they can move. Definitely more deserving of a comp pick than STL
White sox drew 2.96 million fans as recently as 2006. So your theory of no fans come because of “high-crime area” is invalid. White sox have been, and will always be, a team that draws when a good, competitive team is on the field. Ironically, there is more violent crime around Wrigley Field than there is around Sox park. When a tourist visits Chicago, Wrigley Field is the #3 tourist attraction behind Navy Pier and Willis(Sears) Tower. It’s easy to have a really high operating budget when you have 500,000-1,000,000 extra fans showing up just to experience Wrigley
2006 was 10 years ago. They won a WS in 2005, so I’d imagine they would draw a little higher. The Cubs were still drawn if over 3 million during the rebuild. So the terrible Cubs team that ended up with the 2nd overall pick drew more than a CWS team that had won the WS the previous year. That kind of proves my point. They are typically in the 21-26 range. They’ve attempted to put together playoff teams, but attendance remains low even when the team. Their tickets are below the natl avg. The South Side of Chicago is the most dangerous place in the country. I agree that if they had more success they’d have higher attendance, which should be another reason to give them a comp pick.
Cut off about South Side crime. Most people leave immediately following the game bc it’s a dangerous area, so their isn’t much development around the stadium. Wrigley has Wrigleyville for tourists to go visit & stay after the game. They can’t give away tickets to CWS games bc it’s much easier & safer to watch on TV, if you even are a fan. They need to either renovate the area surrounding the stadium & beef up security, or move
Cards get 33 mil in TV revenue, White Sox 55 Mil, Cubs get 65 mil. Cards revenue increase kicks in, in 2018, Sox Cubs new deal will start in 2019. So again White Sox just by being in a major city get an advantage over a team like St Louis. St Louis does better with it’s market than other teams do, they still have a disadvantage.
You’re right – the White Sox do get a slight advantage in ONE area (for now). But that’s only one area of business. Despite that, the Cards still generate significantly more fanfare and revenue than the White Sox will ever have the opportunity for (unless they move). Even when/after they won the first World Series in the city after nearly 100 years, the Cubs still brought in significantly more money, and that’s when their team was absolute garbage. That’s just the way it is. Can the Sox do better than they are currently doing revenue-wise? Absolutely. But no matter what they do, it’s still going to be capped. At best, they should be considered with the lower-tier of mid-market teams.
An article from Forbes following the 2014 season ranked the Cubs as the 5th most valuable team with a team value of $1.8 bil and revenue of $302 mil. The Cardinals were ranked 6th at $1.4 bil with revenue of $294 mil. The White Sox were ranked 16th at $975 mil with revenue of $227 mil. It also said that the White Sox had baseball’s third lowest average local television rating the previous year at 1.15… So yes, they do get more money from their TV deal because they’re in a big city, but that’s only a piece of the puzzle. They’re at a disadvantage basically everywhere else because they share a city with the Cubs.
By the way the comp picks are currently awarded, yes, I suppose it does make sense that the Cards receive a draft pack. But that doesn’t mean the system isn’t significantly flawed. If it’s about trying to be “fair,” then there’s no reason the Cards should be getting an extra draft pick.
Most of these are small market teams – including St Louis
These are not: Miami, Tampa, San Diego, Oakland and definitely NOT Baltimore when they are receiving 40% of the Nationals TV revenue for allowing them into that market
Rewarding teams that have not developed and maintained a market where he potential exists is a problem for all of MLB. If Miami in particular cannot support a large market team they ahould not have one
Fun fact: the St. Louis DMA ranks 5 spots ahead of Baltimore and 7 ahead of San Diego in size. And that’s before you even include the 9 other DMAs that are local broadcast partner markets for the Cards.
Fun fact: Nielsen tabs St. Louis as the 9th smallest television market in baseball. That’s what counts, because that what drives television contracts.
I’m not sure why being a Cardinals fan and reading comprehension seem to have such a strong inverse correlation. (Cardinals fans… go find the smart person in town to explain that sentence to you. )
The guy made a statement that the Cardinals are small market and several other teams are not. I pointed out that two of the teams he listed as large markets are, in fact, smaller markets than St. Louis.
This isn’t based on markets. It’s based on revenues. San Diego and Miami for example are big market teams, but they’re small revenue teams. Just because you have a big market doesn’t mean you have large amounts of income. A Pirates fan wanted their owner to push payroll higher, but it nakes no sense for that owner to operate at a loss every year because that obviously doesn’t make financial sense.
actually it’s based on both, 10 smallest market size and 10 smallest revenues get them a spot in the competitive balance lottery.
It’s based on revenue, not market. We know San Diego and Miami have big markets, but that doesn’t mean they have big revenues to back that up.
That is a fascinating insight. It’s a shame it’s based on multiple layers of incorrect information.
The competitive balance picks go to teams in the bottom 10 for revenue and/or market size. Just like it says in the article above.
Also, San Diego is not a large media market. It’s #28 in the country. Only three MLB teams play in smaller markets. What’s more, it’s one of only two MLB teams that has no other top 150 DMA in its primary media market.
But other than that, you’re spot on!
Miami can support a team. Loria chooses not to field one.
+1000
If the pick doesn’t sign do they get an additional pick next year?
Why is this still part of the draft, normally 35-40 picks separate the 1st to that teams second round pick. We criticize tanking and prospect hugging but when a club needs to rebuild they’re getting picks after teams that have all been to the playoffs over the last 6 years excluding the marlins(03) and padres (06) and Rockies (09) and two of the teams have been to the last 3 World Series, which one of them one. The Rockies also just bought Desmond, are looking at trumbo and EE and did at Melanceon, and now want a top of the rotation guy, the marlins just bid high on Jansen and Chapman, and the cardinals added Fowler, the Indians are looking to add one of Trumbo or EE and so are the O’s, also the DBacks signed Grienke last offseason to a big contract, don’t tell me that all of these teams need extra picks because they’re small market when they’re capable of big market moves
I find this small market debate rather amusing. Fans of “Big Market” teams find it easy to say that ball small market teams shouldn’t be in the league. Fans of “small market” teams hope that they keep a team intact to win a WS before having to trade their top players for the future of that organization. Either way, the system is not perfect, but it gets the job done.
MLB revenue has increased dramatically after the last “strike”. This type of revenue hasn’t been seen since before the 1992-93 strike. That was when the revenue was at the all time high for MLB. That was a era that baseball was on every channel included CBS, ABC, TBS, FOX, etc. I remember as a kid watching baseball throughout the week. Teams like Blue Jays, Expos, A’s, and Pirates (whom I grew to love by my family), had me interested in baseball. MLB network does take that away some now. But once ABC, CBS, or FOX start feeling comfortable making a deal with MLB for a few games a week, it will make the revenue higher for all teams. We need big market teams like we need a small market team. You will always want the underdog (low market) to beat the top dog. That is what makes baseball so great
The competitive balance picks are flat out bullshit. Shouldn’t have them
I disagree. Only if a “salary cap” was invented in baseball, would I agree that CBA wasn’t worth it.
The Blue Jays ownership acts and spends like a small market team. Shouldn’t they get a pick too?
In regard to Blue Jays, we just should not have corporate owned teams. Corporations have obligations to make money for their shareholders, owners should be egotistical billionaires who are willing at times to sacrifice their money for a chance for glory.
Genuine question – Does any non-Cardinal fan think its fair that they get a competitive balance pick?
I know, it doesn’t make a difference what anybody thinks and it won’t change anything, but I’m honestly curious. Literally every single time I’ve seen this brought up, it seems like the argument ends up being Cardinal fans vs. non-Cardinal fans.
So are there any non-Cardinal fans that think the MLB SHOULD be giving them this pick? And on the contrary, are there any Cardinal fans that think they SHOULDN’T be receiving this pick (obviously you all will happily take it, as any team would, but do you think its “fair”)?
I’m staying out of the discussion but I think it’s a good question.
This non-Cardinal fan does not think so.
I am a cards fan, and my feeling is two-fold. On one hand, not receiving a #74 pick in the draft will likely have minimal impact on a franchise anyway…so why all the fuss?
Also, many business minded baseball minds agreed that this system is fair (enough) and nothing a foolish, uninformed fan says on this site will change that. Just look at how many commenters are “correcting” each other on the formula used for these picks. The common denominator is nobody really appears to know. Sometimes, you just have to trust the experts to know what they’re doing…or just refuse to accept the truth, as many fans here have chosen.
There are a lot of ways to define market size but MLB uses the greater metro area population as the standard metric across all clubs since most attendance and viewership comes from the “local” market. The greater metro area is larger than just the city. By this definition St. Louis is a small market club, however, they overindex in attendance and they overeach in viewership and therefore over perform in revenue.
You could penalize them for outperforming their potential but that seems more unfair if your goal is to allow smaller population based markets an advantage to compete against markets that have larger potential for fan attendance and viewership based on their larger population base.
Personally I like the idea of a cap and have teams compete on a more even playing field.
Where are the Braves comp pick? Lol they’ve had one like every year since 2014
Does this take into account the Canadian Dollar for the Jays? If so the Jays management is really screwing fans. And if not the MLB is really screwing the Jays.
The real question for Baltimore is what player will Duquette package with the competitive balance pick in a salary dump?
2017 – (Jimenez or Gallardo or Miley) + Pick = Salary Dump?
2016 – Matusz + Pick = Salary Dump
2015 – Webb + Pick = Salary Dump