Here’s the latest from around the AL East…
- After Edwin Encarnacion didn’t immediately accept the Blue Jays’ initial four-year, $80MM offer, Toronto quickly pivoted to sign Kendrys Morales. With Encarnacion still unsigned as we move into late December, Sportsnet’s Shi Davidi opines that the Jays could have re-signed the slugger at around that price had they been a bit more patient. By contrast, as Davidi notes, the Dodgers were able to re-sign Kenley Jansen, Justin Turner and Rich Hill after expressing their interest in the players but giving them time to test the market before circling back with an offer. “Given how much common ground there was [between Encarnacion and the Jays], it’s an awful, awful way to part with a franchise icon,” Davidi writes. The door isn’t yet totally closed on an Encarnacion return to Toronto, though with Morales and Steve Pearce both joining Justin Smoak in the first base/DH mix, it seems like the Blue Jays have already moved on.
- The Red Sox have positioned themselves for a three-year window as World Series contenders, Jason Mastrodonato of the Boston Herald writes, with a potential for a longer-term run of contention if current top prospects develop or if the Sox decide to lock up current young stars like Mookie Betts, Jackie Bradley or Xander Bogaerts to extensions.
- As part of a reader mailbag, Mike Axisa of the River Ave Blues blog posits that Masahiro Tanaka, Dellin Betances and/or Tyler Clippard are logical deadline trade chips for the Yankees if New York is only on the fringes of the postseason race (as in 2016) or out of it altogether. Tanaka (if he exercises his opt-out) and Clippard will both be free agents next winter, and Axisa feels the Yankees should probably be listening to offers for Betances right now, given the current high demand for elite relief pitching. Tanaka’s opt-out looms as one of the major subplots of the Yankees’ season, and while Tanaka could arguably be shopped now if the team doesn’t feel he’ll stay beyond 2017, Axisa doesn’t think it makes sense for the Yankees to trade their best pitcher after spending big to re-sign Aroldis Chapman. It’s not out of the question that the Yankees trade Tanaka for prospects at the deadline and then look to re-sign him, as they did with Chapman this past year.
Tanaka should play for Yankees till when he leaves MLB or retire
Why? He’s not like a New York legend or anything. Doesn’t really make sense at all.
Agreed he’s not the be all end all of pitchers it’s not like he’s Nolan Ryan or something
Completely disagree Sean114. Aside from that troll, they should truly be opportunistic in any of their remaining veterans. Compete for ’17, but if you get blown away by an offer, take it. They should be looking to continually add to the core of prospects they’ve already assembled with more young, impact players.
He’s an Ace and that would leave them with no Aces. Again people are so dumb on this App
I’m not so sure I’d classify Tanaka as an ace. Sure, he’s the Yankees’ #1 starter, but an ace would be someone I’d define as a guy I could count on for 200+ innings (he’s yet to reach that plateau, though he was quite close last year) with a sub-3.00 ERA and a 9+ K/9. Tanaka isn’t that guy.
He’s an Ace. You’re a prime example of people who leave stupid comments on this App
He is a good pitcher but reality is that he is not an ace. Meztler, kershaw, Price are aces to give you an example. To trade him at this moment is not smart but to get a better deal for a true ace you have to give up on him. The Yankees shoulded sing Price first when they had the chance and then sing Sele but Cashman is not that smart and that is why we are in this average team situation.
Who the heck is Meztler? And you really want to have Price on that contract? That thing could be a serious albatross very shortly, and may have prevented them from throwing money at the monster free agents coming up. And Sale was a trade, not a signing, and I doubt the Yankees had the bullets to get him, considering Washington couldn’t even land him with a much stronger offer than anything the Yankees likely could’ve put together.
I agree, since his arm is a ticking timebomb.
Whose isn’t? (Besides Bartolo lol)
Big Sexy is immortal
Big Sexy is a national treasure.
A writer opined that Big Sexy, at 43, is the only (former) free agent that you can depend on for 200 innings, and I can’t disagree = )
Why would you trade the best starter on the team right now? Almost every game that tanaka pitched, was expected as a W and resulted for a W.
White Sox did it. They can deal him for prospects and then look to re-sign him next off-season.
How long before Tanaka blows out his elbow?
Perhaps until as long as Adam Wainwright (pitched 9 years with a partial tear) or Ervin Santana (been pitching with a partial tear since 2009) yet I don’t know of anyone who called/call their elbows “ticking timebombs”
That encarnacion stuff is 20/20 hindsight. If Toronto waits and he goes somewhere else anyway after 2 months they are in a very bad position. They did the right thing moving on. If he wants to stay he missed the bus.
I’m not sure signing Morales that quick in a market flooded with 1b/dh options was a great idea, but I have to agree. Tor couldn’t just sit around and wait for EE to decide what he was going to do.
They made him a very competitive offer and he chose to pass, they moved on. I’m not at all seeing this as some bad way to part with an icon. It’s similar to the Pujols/Cards situation.
Totally agree. The Jays made a very fair offer to EE. His agent gave him poor advice and therefore he turned it down. Rather than being left empty handed the Jays went a different route. EE turned down what will likely be his largest offer of this offseason. I don’t see how the Jays are to blame for that. Rather I put more of the blame on his agent.
The Jays really misplayed the 1B/DH market, how did Morales manage to get 3 years and everyone else is struggling to find a job. Morales should of got no more than 1 year
Just because they’re unsigned doesn’t mean they won’t get 3 years or more when all is said and done. The Morales/Pearce signings were fine and about right. The Jays aren’t much worse off than they would have been in signing one of EE or JB.
shouldn’t you wait until they sign before you state that?
Happens all the time where we think a player has no market and remains unsigned, and then someone steps up suddenly and gives them a big deal. Was just reported that EE was discussing lengthy deals with more than one club, despite everyone wondering who will even sign him now. It will happen.
What did you think the agent would say about his client? ” Hey, looks like no one is interested. He might have to settle for a spring training invite”? Unlike Crush Davis, the Jays moved quickly along. They signed a similar player to a reasonable contract. Watch Baltimore stumble along with Trumbo if you want to see how the other side of the coin plays out. Baltimore will end up bidding against themselves, again.
Mmm… well I can certainly see why Toronto would sign a similar player and a potential raker for less than what EE would cost, but EE’s stats are pretty scary for opposing pitchers compared to Morales.
I’m not particularly in the know, but is there anything stopping the Jays from signing EE late and then trading Morales a month or so from now?
The Jays never misplayed the market. Morales got 3 years because he didn’t cost $20 million per. His salary is actually at fair market value. If I’m not mistaken other competing teams were offering 2 years. The Jays offered 3 which was why Morales signed. But at $11 million per year I don’t mind the third year considering the rising prices in salaries.
And from his stats, he seems fairly solid. I don’t see a history of injuries. So signing him through to 36 sounds better than having to sign EE through to 39 or 40.
I can easily see the Yankees trading Tanaka at the trade deadline if they’re not at real shot of going to the post season. If he is pitching well then he will probably opt of his contract so the Yankees should get some good prospects for him
I strongly disagree with Davidi’s take on Encarnacion. No one, and I repeat NO ONE saw EE’s market taking a nosedive the way it has. In fact, I’d say nearly everyone, including Davidi himself, stated the Jays low-balled Edwin with their 4/80 offer and that EE was “guaranteed” to get either 5 years or $100 plus million. The Jays were in the right to move on quickly and not risk missing out on other options. The off-season is all about getting your work done quickly and efficiently and they did that with Morales. When the Jays signed Morales, Edwin’s market was viewed as being flush with the Jays, Sox, Yanks and Astros all supposedly “bidding” on him and that’s without factoring in other suitors like Texas, Colorado and St. Louis waiting in the wings.
With all of that said, their is a slim chance the Jays could fit Edwin into the lineup but it’d take a good amount of creativity, ingenuity and a good amount of strategy by Gibbons. You’d have to play Edwin in 145 games(115 at 1st, 30 at DH), Morales would have to play 130 games(100 at DH, 30 at 1st) and the remaining 32 games at DH would have to be split among JD, Tulo, Martin and anyone else in need of days off. They’d have to jettison Smoak off the roster either by trade, release or DFA. They’d also need to acquire a very strong and versatile bench(Pearce is a great start) and go with a 7 man bullpen while finding strong and durable corner OF players. It’d also completely end the Bautista era which I believe most Jays fans are already on board with. As well, the Jays would have to take full advantage of the new 10 day DL and not continue playing guys like JD through nagging injuries.
Smoke should be released, I don’t think a defensive replacement at 1B should earn a roster spot.
+ upton to the list of paper work too
Jays actually really need Upton. He’s far and away the best base runner on the team(that changes if Pompey makes it) and he’s also one of the few Jays hitters who crushes lefty pitching. Jays are paying him next to nothing and he fits a few key team needs.
Nobody needs Upton, he was so bad for the jays last year so many miscues on defence and a lost bat
Maybe he was adjusting though. As evidenced by his start in San Diego, he is not totally lost yet.
no it’s not. He was terrible in ATL too, he’s been bad for how long now?
He was getting embarrassed at the plate in TOR, gibbons has no confidence in the guy.
if they saw something they really, really liked in morales, then ok, i guess. I don’t see it, and the market had a lot of people to do his job, but you’re spot on with the “no one saw EE’s market bottoming out like this”
Morales balances the lineup as a switch hitter which is/was a need. He’s also not as pull happy as EE or Jose. One of the Jays biggest problems last year and even in 2015 was that they became far too predictable and easy to pitch to because all of their core batters shared similar weaknesses and generally tried hitting the long ball every AB.
Morales has a lower bb rate, a similar k rate, the lowest wRC+, He’s just pretty much worse than both of them. And they gave him 3 years?
fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&…
Years are less important than, you know, salary. They got Morales for $11m a year. That’s barely more than 1 win-equivalent. Dirt cheap and likely half of what EE will end up earning. They basically got Morales plus Pearce for less than EE, and balanced out their lineup in the process. Smart deal. EE is 34, out of shape, and should be a full time DH.
he’s 34, out of shape, and still much better than morales? Ok , cool. Logic escapes you, we know. I guess you are expecting the really good steve pearce.
years are just as important. it’s commiting a % of future payroll to a declining asset.
@chesteraarthur the 3rd guaranteed year brought the AAV down to $11 million which is pretty decent. Most believe Morales was going to get 2/$26-$32 this off-season.
I won’t argue that Morales is the superior hitter because he’s not. But he comes in cheaper and isn’t that far of a drop off from Edwin. It’s exactly what Shapiro and Atkins did last off-season when they allowed Price to walk and used his money to add Happ and Estrada. Jays more than covered the lost production just as they have done with Morales and Pearce in place of Edwin. And just like Happ and Estrada, the potential is there for Morales and Pearce to combine and surpass Edwin’s production at a likely lesser cost. All while maintaining roster flexibility and a slightly more balanced lineup.
The 3rd year was tied to signing Lourdes Gurriel, they share the same agency and apparently garaunteeing the 3 Rd year allowed them to sign Gurriel.
I agree with you. Although as an armchair gm I would attempt to leave the dh spot as a crutch for players that are injured or suddenly need to only hit and not play the field. I never understand why AL teams feel the need to fill a dh spot in the lineup.
Couldn’t have said it better
Tanaka has a FULL no trade clause. He would have to agree to everything, he has a huge contract, and he has a partially torn UCL which will go someday. How is that an easy trade? I can see the Yanks selling again though….delin b and didi G would net huge returns and further build the Yanks farm.
Dellin, would. Dd, would not.
As a Red Sox fan, if they are going to lock up Mookie and/or Xander, they need to do it sooner than later. If Bradley can stay consistent with his bat, then definitely lock him up long term.
As a cubs fan, I think the boston parallel is really interesting. What are their young guys looking at? Mookie has pretty much established himself as a solid MLB player, its just whether he wants to bet on his power or sign an extension now. Xander reminds me a little of Russell… It’ll be interesting to see what some of these teams (astros too) manage to get done with their young talent.
Mookie is much more than a solid MLB player. He’s a top 10 player in the game. And Xander is a much better player than Russell.
Agreed, “solid” players don’t put up MVP caliber seasons. And as far as Xander goes, he still has a lot of work to do as far as being consistent. He really fell off the table last year and by the playoffs he was completely lost. If we are not calling him the best shortstop in baseball by this time next year I’ll be disappointed, we thought he was going to take that leap this year.
I think the gap between Russell and Bogaerts is smaller than you think. The only real difference offensively is that Russell hits for a low average, but he’s also still only 22. They both have real power. Russell is the far superior shortstop defensively. Once he brings the average up, he probably moves ahead of Bogaerts.
Let’s not jump to any happy conclusions until you see what happens to these MVP boy wonders in a lineup without Papi. If it’s like dominos, then Trader Dave will begin dumping them by the ASG and bringing in overpaid, over-the-hill players.
Hey look, another ignorant homer comment from a Yankee fan!
Big Papi on the Mitchell report. No HOF for steroid guys
Best shortstop in baseball? You do realize that Seager, Lindor, and Correa are in the bigs, right? It’s those 3 and then everybody else.
What a silly comment Mookie has “pretty much established himself as a solid major leaguer” yeah that is an understatement just like Kris Bryant has pretty much established himself as a solid major leaguer cmon man let’s be real. Mookie is a superstar as well rounded an offensive and defensive player and base runner as there is in the league except Mike Trout.
Yes, and Chris Sale has pretty much established himself as a solid pitcher.
They can’t do it soon. If they did it now it would put them over the luxury cap. They need to wait for other big contracts to expire. It will cost them more in the future but that is the price you pay when you have that many big paychecks on the team.
It looks to me that Toronto only wanted EE back if they could get him at their price and length of contract, or reasonably close to it. They didn’t want him using them as a stalking horse. The Morales deal was immediately panned as an overpay, but if you think about it, maybe they thought they would get 80% of EE’s production for 1/3 of his total cost, then sign other useful players with the extra money. This is a team ownership that isn’t outright cheap, but doesn’t spend more than it thinks it needs to. Every year there are always a few players whose markets are slow to develop. Some of them get their money, others end up on the short end.
Umm … actually the near unanimous reaction to the Jays 4/80 offer was it was a huge UNDERpay that rightfully ticked EE off.
Ha. Yeah, I’d be ticked if someone offered me 80 million dollars.
I don’t know which bothers me more, the ridiculousness of contracts, or the regular day guy that goes along with the idea that athletes “deserve” millions and millions of dollars.
I understand how you could feel that way about contracts, but sports are a huge market. The teams garner a lot of revenue, which in turn is put into the payroll, then given to players who the teams think deserve it based on the player’s performance. They are given salary based on the value they produce or are expected to produce for the team.
I think it’s regular day people that don’t understand that these people are being paid for being at the top of their profession, in a market that makes enough money to pay them that much….you know, people who don’t understand simple capitalistic economics
Who “deserves” the money more? The team’s owners?
While you were talking down to me, you changed the subject. I understand that these guys can make that, because that’s what the market has become.
What I do not understand is how someone that does actual work all year long can then support the idea of someone making that much money playing a game. The idea that someone is “ticked” at “only 80 mil” is absolutely insane.
That was in response to Chester.
When tickets cost so much that going to watch a game is financially stupid, there is a problem. My thought is why do regular joes continue to idolize people that make so much money they can’t even go watch them play. I just don’t get it. I’ve always loved baseball. I usually go to one Ranger game a year now and when it’s over and I think about what I spent I feel foolish. Then people’s only argument to the money is, “well do the owners deserve it?”
I’m saying it’s all out of hand. It’s crazy.
Modified, when you talk about people “supporting” what players make or thinking they “deserve” it, you’re looking at it in a very black and white, how much sweat did they expend to earn that money way. No one’s gonna say anyone “deserves” to make $20 million/year, but it’s not about what anyone deserves in that sense, it’s about what value they have to someone else. In a game that rakes in billions of dollars a year, the best players in the world have a lot of value to the owners of those teams and their value can be roughly computed, which is why people have expectations of what they are likely to make. It’s not like some guy is sitting at home saying “Edwin should get $100 million or the world is so unfair and I’m gonna cry for him”, they’re just saying “Edwin should get $100 million because that’s his likely value in baseball terms”.
Ticket prices have nothing to do with player salaries though. It’s supply and demand. The other three major sports leagues – all with salary caps – have much higher ticket prices than MLB. MLB teams make most of their money through TV and MLBAM deals. Ticket prices don’t correlate with anything except what people are willing to pay, just like every other commodity.
I don’t care what the players make. If I could get it up there at 98 MPH, or crank out 40 HRs, I’d want to be paid a lot of money as well. MLB is an entertainment business. People come to see a performance. The less adept the performers, the less people will want to see them.
Ticket prices have absolutely no correlation with salaries. It’s simply supply and demand.
I doubt EE was “ticked” by the Jays offer, and regardless of what the market first thought of it, in hindsight it looks like it was a very fair offer that may end up being the best one he’ll get. So if him and the market thought the offer was so bad, it’s only because they all overestimated his market, not any fault of the Jays.
We won’t know whether the initial offer was a huge underpay until we see what he actually signs for. EE is entitled to play out his strategy to the end. He’s going to be rich, regardless.
They want the picks, there are too many core players that entered free agency this year and will over the next two years. They’re forward looking and realize this is our last shot at contention and don’t want a long drawn out rebuild. They’ve made under the radar signings will collect the picks and do an ATL Braves tear down at the end of next year. Donaldson and Tulo will be dealt next offseason or perhaps at the trade deadline if the jays are out of contention.
Jays could still re-sign Edwin.
All they need to do is get rid of Smoak, platoon Edwin/Morales between 1B/DH and use Pearce as a bench piece on a IF type of role and to hit vs LHP for Morales !
Remember a few years ago that Morales was “Kendrysed”? He had turned down the qualifying offer and they overestimated his value and he lost the season. I think that’s why he signed on quickly.
Anyone know if Pearce is capable of handing a full time corner OF role?
Not really.
How many millions do the Yankees have to kick in todo a Tanaka trade? 30M? 40M? If I am trading a top prospect for him, I want insurance in case that tear in his elbow turns into a full tear. Trading your top prospect for a pitcher who has an elbow that can go, BUT also if it goes, you are on the hook to pay him 67M over 3 years. Of which, you’ll only get 1 maybe 2 years of. It would have to be a minimum of $30M to cover that risk. If he pitches fine and opts, no money exchanges hands.
I think Tanaka is really not tradable at this point with his health questions and his contract.
Everyone is tradable at the right price. The problem with Tanaka for the Yankees is that the price they might get, given the variables, would not nearly be worth keeping him. If Tanaka has a terrific year, he will be tradable at the deadline–or he might opt out, which would relieve the Yankees from the last four years of his contract.
EE and Morales thoughts. Morales was a top prospect until that celebration at home plate derailed his career. It took a couple of years but he has been very productive except for a so so 2014. 25 HR 90 RBI and 260 BA is likely for next three years. Three years at 33 million is a bit risky but I like him better than Napoli and Trumbo wants 60 mill guaranteed. I think the Jays figured EE would decline 4 and 80 so to look good to the fans they made the offer to EE. I have been very impressed with the way Shapiro carefully spends his money.
I disagree. I believe they view next year as the last year of our window of contention, and therefore value the draft picks more to add talent to our farm. I’m expecting a full tear down to occur within the next 12 months.
Making offers to EE and Fowler says otherwise. I’m not ruling out the possibility it could happen, but I doubt their mindset coming into this offseason was that their window was almost closed and that they should have an eye on rebuilding.
If Tanaka opts out, it’s time to move on. There will be FA options out there in the next couple of years, and we have some pitching in the minors that will be up in 2018. By 2019 you’ll have Harvey, Kershaw, and Sale on the market.
Upton + Smoak + Morales = 20 Mil. 2 of those guys shouldn’t be getting much more the league min
Smoak has no business being on a major league roster. He is utter garbage. You give him 500AB’s you get 190-210avg 20hr and 250k’s. He’s the type of player you have in AA because your team doesn’t have any young 1B around to fill the hole.
The BJ’s have really messed up this offseason. They are at the very, very best, a distant 3rd place team. Rox are going to walk away with the division and I think Baltimore, while weaker, hasn’t gotten worse like Toronto has. I could see the Yanks pulling past Toronto in 2017.
It all hinges on the Jays’ starting pitching. If they get the same performance from their rotation I think they’re still the 2nd best team in the division. If there’s a lot of regression from Happ and/or Estrada, then 3rd or even 4th is a possibility. Personally, I don’t see the Yankees as much of a threat though and I would be surprised if the Jays finished behind them.