Some items on the always-busy relief pitching market…
- The Nationals explored acquiring Andrew Miller at last July’s trade deadline, though balked at the idea of moving Lucas Giolito and other prospects for the ace reliever, ESPN’s Tim Kurkjian recently noted (as cited by ESPN.com’s Buster Olney in his latest subscriber-only column). Trading for Miller would’ve solved Washington’s search for a long-term closer, and the Nats ended up moving Giolito anyway at the Winter Meetings to obtain Adam Eaton “in a market saturated with outfield options.” This decision presents an interesting what-if for Nats fans, though the answer could simply come down to the fact that the Nationals no longer valued Giolito as highly. “Their view of Giolito obviously changed completely. Whatever it was, they were working to move him,” an evaluator tells Olney.
- Speaking of Miller, this offseason’s skyrocketing relief prices have made the Indians lefty a bargain for the team, Zack Meisel of the Cleveland Plain Dealer writes. Miller is owed $9MM in each of the next two seasons, a fraction of what he would earn if he was on the open market this winter.
- Brad Ziegler and Neftali Feliz have been mentioned as potential Marlins backup plans if they can’t sign Kenley Jansen, and MLB.com’s Joe Frisaro also adds Fernando Salas and Junichi Tazawa to the team’s list of possible candidates. Overall, the Fish would be looking to add relievers with closing experience, though A.J. Ramos would likely remain Miami’s closer.
indians won the 2016 trade deadline getting miller. most club friendly RP contract
Great pickup for them
Adam Eaton has far more value than any reliever in baseball
Furthermore I think Nationals were smart to be low end on Giolito. His statistical profile is not that of an elite ace level prospect. And from what I have seen, while the Curve flashes 70 he also at times gets on top of it too much and it has a less effective slurve action.
Yes… but no. Eaton is great and will have more value in a vacuum. But There are more Adam Eaton’s around the league than there are Andrew Millers. Supply and demand makes Miller more valuable.
It seems the relief pitching market is what was saturated with Chapman, Melancon, Jansen, Ziegler, Feliz, etc… If you needed a CF, it was basically Desmond, Fowler or Gomez, with only Fowler showing any consistency. Eaton was a solid way to go, considering the alternatives.
He’d better, considering what they gave up to get him.
Tell that to Chapman.
Chapman and his contract aren’t that valuable when comparing him to elite outfielders on cheap contracts. You could make an argument for the chapman with 5 years of control through cheap arbitration, but not 90 million chapman
Said no one ever
Disagree. There are a handful of shut down relievers. Miller is one of them. Eaton is good, but like the article said, it is a saturated market…
Not in CF, unless you want to put Trumbo, Bautista, or Revere there. What Revere gives you in speed he more than gives up in offense,
Eaton is not very good at all, ESPECIALLY in CF. His WAR went up because how good he was defensively in RF last year. He was a nightmare defensively in CF prompting his move to RF even though the Sox did not have a ML CF option to replace him. BUT, I believe the Nats have a RFer. Unless Giollito is hurt, Rizzo got real desperate with this trade. Rizzo has completely wet himself this offseason. They still need a closer.
To say Eaton isn’t good at all is totally ridiculous. Also, in 2014, he was really good in CF. Then, even in his down year in 2015, where he was admittedly terrible defensively in CF, he still put up close to 4 WAR. The entirety of his value wasn’t b/c of how he was defensively in RF last year. Obviously, it had a lot to do with how valuable he was, but it’s not like he has no bat or baserunning ability. I think he shpuld be fine in CF next year. If anything, when Werth gets hurt, he can move over to a corner for one of their young guys for a couple of months. Stop acting like Adam Eaton is garbage. It makes no sense
No, not garbage. Still relatively young on a nice team friendly contract. HOWEVER, his value is clearly as a RFer, his bat, base running is fine, not elite, but I’ll concede with good. Again, the package Rizzo sent over him is ELITE. That is why many, including those that actually get paid for their opinion, blasted Rizzo for being desperate.
They’re down on Giolito, who has already had TJ surgery and lost his command and velocity in his stint in the big leagues, Lopez is still raw and could end up a reliever, b/c of the effort in his delivery, and durability concerns due to his size (I’ve heard him actually compared to Jansen), and Dunning hasn’t pitched in A ball, and has backend SP potential. He gave up a lot, but you have to give up a lot to get a really good player on a cheap deal for 5 seasons, like Eaton. Eaton says he put a lot on himself after he signed his contract, and admitted he took some strange routes to the ball in 2015, and also had an injury. I don’t know if he is 2014 Eaton in CF, but I don’t think he is 2015 Eaton in CF either.
You’re acting as if giolito is still the top pitching prospect. He’s not
No, no, no… not even sort of. Defensively he’s a nightmare in CF(which I believe is where the Nats will play him) The Sox had to move him to RF because of how badly he struggled in CF in 2015. They were so desperate, they signed Austin Jackson play CF. Rizzo wet himself at the deadline for not getting Miller or Chapman, especially since he ended up flipping his deal breaker (Giolitto) for an average ball player that, BTW, has more personality issues than Papelbon. The dude is a head case.
Funny how everything you said about the guy is opposite of what ive heard.
Nats fans will forget about those prospects they gave up in one week with Eaton in a nationals uniform.
Actually, while he didn’t get Chapman or Miller, he did get this guy, Melancon.
…unless your team is bound for the playoffs and lacks a shutdown bullpen and/or solid SP behind their ace.
Nats should have acquired Miller or Sale. You balk at all of these and the. Trade your top prospects for ADAM EATON??? This is the worst trade I’ve ever seen. I bet Rick Hahn had to contain himself from saying hell yeah I’ll give EATON for Giolito! So Rizzo could finish his sentence, and give him the rest of their future!
Nats supposedly offered Giolito, Lopez, and Robles for Sale and still didnt get him lol. They cant just force the White Sox to trade Chris Sale to them after they already traded him to the Red Sox. Adam Eaton at 5 years at that money is a really good asset. The Nationals also still have Voth, Cole, and Fedde in the upper minors, as well as their obviously really good current rotation. They also still didnt totally deplete their farm system, and have the money and resources to continue to build there.
And all this talk about Rizzo is pretty unfair. I cant think of one other instance where people thought he overpaid or lost a trade, or he ended up getting hurt by guys he traded away. He wins his deals almost all the time. I dont think he went out and tried to win a trade. He is trying to build his team to be as good as it can be this year,especially considering they’re going to lose Bryce Harper in 2 years. He did that, and he’ll have flexibility moving forward b/c of the cheapness of Eaton’s contract, and the value he gives them. If Giolito and/or Lopez end up figuring it out, ya thats a definite win for the White Sox, and the Nationals will likely regret it, but if the Nationals win, it doesnt matter
Rizzo is trying to win a WS before he loses Harper. Sometimes you have to lose a battle to win the war. And we won’t know if he even lost the battle for awhile. Look, everyone thought the Cubs gave up too much for a couple of months of Chapman. But since they won it all, nobody cares anymore. Let’s see how it plays out.
Andrew Miller deal was a bargain far before we saw what Chapman and Melancon got
Absolutely!
Sign Ziegler, Feliz, Nova/Hammel, and Mark Reynolds (I obviously want Napoli, but thats not happening if it didnt happen last year), and call it an offseason. If the FO is contemplating the loss of the draft pick, and allocating their funds to multiple areas, its b/c they know that makes the most sense. It sounds as though Loria wants Jansen, and by saying that its up to his baseball people, he is trying to not directly do what he did with Bell and Buck, but at the same time, thats exactly what it is. Front office has the “final say,” but if its not what Loria wanted, meaning Jansen, someone will likely get fired. Which means that Loria wants to once again, go half way and then complain when it doesnt work out.
Do the right thing. Let Jansen stay with the Dodgers or sign with the Nationals, and go get the multiple areas of help this team needs, and position yourself with at least a little depth heading into ST, and then you can look at other possibilities during the season
I agree Jansen is the complete Marlins move to make which is exactly why they shouldn’t make it. Save that money to build the team elsewhere rather than spend it on a guy who throws 70ish innings for you and doesn’t make you a better team overall outside of a late-game situation.
You already said this on the Marlins website.
Fair lol…but the waiting is getting to me, and the longer it goes, the more worried I am they sign Jansen
Same I am a Marlins fan to and I keep checking to see which way it is going to go. If it were me I would sign Travis wood bring in a righty bat to platoon with bour and get 2 or three relievers with closing experience.
I’d have rather used the $3 million they wasted on Locke for one of the injured guys lol. Not a fan of Wood, but I’ll definitely take him over Locke
Nether am I but we need a younger pitcher who we can put in the rotation who has some upside, wood fits that.
We need someone that can pitch anywhere in the 3-5 spots in the rotaion. Theoretically, Wood could be a 5, but I’d rather have something more definitive than we already have, and Wood is barely more definitive than we already have, considering he hasn’t been a SP in a couple of years
There is only one Andrew Miller!
i bet there are actually quite a few andrew millers
Quick, check the white pages!
Ross and Baez are grateful
Statcast is what changed their opinion of Giolito.
The average MLB starter has an average of 2,230 or so revolutions per minute on their fastball. Giolito’s average was 2,030.
He threw 278 fastballs in the majors. 265 of them drew contact. Only 13 swings and misses on a supposedly elite fastball? They knew they had to move him before others caught on.
This is why I was glad the Pirates didn’t take the Nats offer of Giolito and Dunning (a future 5th starter at most) for Cutch even though I think they should trade him.
I could be wrong on this (and I don’t feel like looking it up), but his fastball also looked very straight in the games I watched him pitch.
I watched him pitch a handle of times and wasn’t impressed. WAS def dumped him at the right time.
Great move by CLE at the deadline, no question! Rizzo and the Nats wet themselves at the deadline and compounded it by severely overpaying for Eaton and setting themselves again at the Winter Meetings. Eaton is a terrible CFer, he was originally acquired by the Sox to be their CFer, he ended up getting moved to RF even though the Sox had no ML option to replace him in CF because of how badly he struggled. Don’t the Nats already have that Bryce dude in RF? Haha, meanwhile Rizzo whiffed on Sale and still doesn’t have a closer. Mets fans are smiling.
Looking at Miller and Robertson’s contracts of just two years ago, compared to Melancon and Chapman tells you just how much the market has moved for this asset. Both those, plus whatever Jansen signs for, will be a tremendous overpay. But if that’s what the market bears…
I think every GM in baseball is calling the Nats and trying to make a deal, any deal. Rizzo wet himself at the deadline by NOT getting Miller and then wet himself at the winter meeting by trading the guy he wouldn’t trade for Miller for a slightly above average RFer to play CF where he struggled mightily. Now he’s desperately looking for a closer.
Bryzzo2016 you keep writing that the nats wet themselves seems like you are wetting yourself with your hater posts.
Right, Rizzo — he of the uniquely impeccable trade history — is now prime for having his pockets picked. The Eaton deal may or may not work out, but it’s a roughly even value/risk swap and is understandable given the needs/market/etc.
Re passing on Miller, they still added Melancon, which worked out swimmingly. And then they used those assets for Eaton, who is a much more valuable piece than Miller. Again, you could argue for alternative approaches, but the idea that this is some obviously flawed deal in conception is just kinda silly IMO.
Should of just devolped Giolito as a closer, solve a lot of issues at once. Seems weird to see an org do a 180 based on what? A small ML sample?
You guys crack me up, Giolito, up until last week, was the #3 prospect in the top 100, He gets traded and now he sucks. I’ll take the hundreds of professional scout opinions who had him 3 over the keyboard GMs. If any other pitcher had 21 innings pitched in his first major league season and struggled, it would be a learning curve. This guy gets hit first time up and he stinks, Comical….
that stuff is coming from the Nationals though. He lost his command, and his velocity had a big dip, and he already has an injury history. Other scouts also are down on him in comparison to not that long ago. Not saying that he sucks. Just saying his stock isnt what it was.
As I think they are trying to justify that trade. The dude had TJ surgery when…4-5 years ago…. kids are having elective TJ surgery these days to make their arms stronger. I don’t know if this kid will be the next big thing, but I just find it funny everyone was so high on him, but now there are major concerns.
Well, they are putting out info to explain their reasoning in making the trade, not coming up with reasons to justify a decision that they believe to be a bad one. It’s a debatable swap, but obviously one they wanted to make.
Re the value dip, it’s not concern over TJ, specifically. It’s that his future ace tag may no longer hold — for reasons formerlyz notes — and that they chose to cash in on his value now, via trade, to address a need rather than being the org to continue rolling the dice on him.