7:22am: The Nationals regard Robles as an integral long-term piece and are unwilling to trade him for McCutchen, writes Chelsea Janes of the Washington Post. A deal could still happen in spite of that, Janes notes. Further, contrary to an earlier report, the Nats never planned to non-tender Espinosa.
12:02am: The Nationals have been linked to a pair of potential blockbuster deals with the White Sox for ace lefty Chris Sale and the Pirates for former NL MVP Andrew McCutchen, though apparently in the Nats’ view, the possible trades aren’t an either/or proposition. Washington think they have enough prospect depth to manage both trades, according to USA Today’s Bob Nightengale (Twitter link), and are trying to work out deals with Chicago and Pittsburgh.
While the Nationals have been no strangers to big moves over the years, landing Sale and McCutchen would be quite a coup for GM Mike Rizzo. Doing so without trading Trea Turner (who the Nats have already balked at including in a Sale deal) would be more impressive, though Washington has several other strong young talents both in the minors and on the big league roster.
Lucas Giolito, Victor Robles, Reynaldo Lopez and Erick Fedde are each ranked within MLB.com’s top 100 prospects in all of baseball, while less-heralded but still notable youngsters like Dane Dunning, Carter Kieboom or Austin Voth would also draw trade interest. There’s also A.J. Cole, a former top 100 prospect who hasn’t shown much in limited big league action, or perhaps hard-throwing reliever Trevor Gott. Looking to the big league roster, McCutchen’s acquisition would push Turner back to shortstop and make Danny Espinosa expendable, while the Nats could also deal from the back end of the rotation and try to move Gio Gonzalez or a younger arm in Joe Ross.
There’s no shortage of interesting names in the Nationals organization to speculate about as trade chips, though it would seemingly take several of them to land both Sale and McCutchen. (In fact, it’ll take several just to pry Sale out of Chicago given how the White Sox have a huge asking price on their ace.) McCutchen’s price is lower due to his rough 2016 season, though the Pirates still want premium young talent in return.
Even if one or both of these trades don’t work out, anything seems on the table for the Nats at this point, given how they’ve also been linked to free agents like Dexter Fowler, Ian Desmond, Carlos Gomez and Mark Melancon. Signing a free agent might be preferable than dealing away multiple young players, though at a greater financial cost than one guaranteed year for McCutchen and Sale’s team-friendly contract.
At least one of Giolito/Turner would have to be a goner. Quite possibly both.
Trading Turner would just be stupid. Giolito can go
There is ZERO chance they trade both. In fact, as a Nats fan for the team’s entire existence, I’d be shocked if they trade Turner for anyone other than Trout. They love him that much.
They’d move him for guys like Seager/Bryant/Machado.
I think he is just talking guys that even have a slight chance of being available. There is no way a trade happens with any of those guys for so many different reasons. And yes, I agree with him. In terms of players that could realistically be available, Trout is the only one he would be traded for. Turner is extremely valuable to them because he can play SS and CF.
It will sound stupid, but no on Machado. Only 1 year of control left, and he’ll be leaving town for mega bucks.
Maybe Bryant/Machado of those three. Seager and Turner are relatively equal in value so unless the Dodgers liked Turner more than Seager, doubt either team would do that.
Seager does have that whole ROTY thing under his belt already though. I agree Turner is valuable, but Seager is worth more.
Yes, thx goplen. I was inferring guys that have been discussed in the media as available. None of those other three have been even mentioned in reports, realistically. As I was saying about Turner: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/nationals-journal/wp/2016/12/05/nationals-pursuing-chris-sale-andrew-mccutchen/?utm_term=.87d737c22755
I don’t think it’s a smart approach. Getting McCutchen would be a solid move for them, in my view. But going all out for Sale would be sending top tier talent out to address an area that they’re already strong in for years to come.
I would hold off on Cutch and move in on Sale.
I don’t think we’ve seen the best from
sale yet, but we’ve seen the best from Cutch already.
Sale is reasonable at what 12-13mil next 3 years?
Pitching always wins.
Keep Turner who I think has proven he can be an everyday MLB player and play at a high level and try and move 2 of your unproven arms. Giolito and Voth and a low level 3rd prospect. Sale would be worth it – imagine him paired up with Scherzer/Strasburg/Ross/ and Gio or Roark
And those 3 in the playoffs.
Yes, and you’re going to need a lot more than just Giolito, Voth, and a low level third prospect for Chris Sale.
I agree they need a lot more, but they have it without giving up Turner easily in my mind. They have 4 of the top 100 prospects, 2 of which are in the top 10 in baseball in Giolito (#3), Robles (#10), Lopez (#37), and Fedde (#75). From there you have guys like Ross, Cole, Voth, Taylor, Kieboom, Difo, and more. They have plenty to get Sale, and could probably land Cutch and Sale without giving up Turner.
But thats not what white sox are looking for. They are looking for MLB ready position players such as Turner, Bregman, Benintendi etc to headline the trade. Robles is too far off. Without Turner nationals aren’t getting Sale. Its simple.
Get the Braves involved as a third team, they will kick in prospects for Rendon.
Giolito Voth and a lower prospect is not nearly enough to land sale.
If you’re not giving up Turner then you’re giving up Giolito Fredde Lopez Voth Kieboom and someone else. Its going to take a lot to land sale as he’s under team control at an absurdly team friendly rate.
Personally, I don’t see how Robles isn’t involved in a Sale. deal.
I don’t see Houston giving up Bregman, nor Washington giving up Turner. However, I do see Houston giving up Tucker and a slew of depth, just like I see Washington giving up Robles and a slew of depth.
The problem with “prospects” is that so very little separates the #5 and #25 prospects. So many factors go into it. Then you see guys like Rowdy Tellez who are without a ranking, but Vogelbach is.
If they can get a handful of high quality, high upside prospects, regardless of ranking, they need to jump on it. The prospect ranking means very little in terms of predicting MLB success. If you don’t agree, go look at the top 20 prospect lists from 2006-2011, and think about how many of those (top 20, blue chip) prospects aren’t even a factor on a major league roster, or a shell of the player they could have been.
I didnt involve Robles personally cause of his age and ETA. Giolito Voth Fredde Lopez are all MLB or near mlb ready. Robles needs time. Idk the sox plans but im assuming theyd like to hold off a rebuild. I added kieboom cause I know the sox wont just take pitching for sale. And if theyre parting with giolito fredde and lopez i dont see the nationals doing giolito robles fredde lopez for sale. Rarely do teams trade all 4 top prospects in a deal. If the sox are getting robles the sox will have to send something along with sale to net giolito voth robles lopez and fredde.
More realistically itll be
Nationals get Sale and a fringe prospect or 2
Sox get Giolito Lopez Fredde Kieboom Voth and someone like Neuse or Bautista and Banks.
If by Giolito Voth and. 3rd lower level you mean Giolito, Robles, Lopez, Keiboom, and Voth, then the negotiations can start.
I think the Nats can pull it off. Mike Rizzo won’t have a job in two years if they don’t win, so he doesn’t care about trading these prospects.
Ross and Robles (and maybe a lesser, wild card prospect like Taylor Hearn was in the Melancon deal) for McCutchen seems fair.
That still leaves 5 or 6 good prospects including Giolito to deal to the White Sox for Sale.
haha i agree completely. The window for this team is within the Bryce Harper (aka over-exaggerated player of the decade) era.
They need to go for it now before that clock is reset. This is a team that needs to focus on the next two years and forget about the future. That means Chris Sale, Andrew McCutchen and any other they can acquire.
But let’s hope Douche Harper can play fair with whoever they acquire. His ego and mental state are just so fragile. Poor guy, I wish I could feel sympathy for such an unlikable guy. Actually I don’t. He fits on the Mt Rushmore of D-Bag athletes.
You sound like a very salty NL east rival fan, your just coming across as bitter
He is a douche though.
I’m sure you know him personally.
He may be a tool at times but he’s no Milton Bradley
Harper for Sale straight up.
Harpers not a douche though
I’ll be honest, I’m a Mets fan. I love watching Harper play, he’s an amazing athlete and a phenomenal baseball player, but he is most definitely a douche. We’ve had our fair share of douche’s in NY, it happens
I’m guessing you’re a fan of someone in the NL East outside of the Nats? Would love to hear why you think he is a douche. I’m sure you know him personally. From what I see, he plays extremely hard, wants to win and is a competitor. He won a MVP and is still very young.
I’m not sure who are you are referring to when you say “play fair” either. Papelbon? That choke was all on him and ridiculous.
For what it’s worth the first people to talk about Harper being a douche were scouts before he was even drafted.
I’m sure he was a very confident kid being on the cover of SI when he was 16 and the number overall draft. I just think to call him a douche is a little much. He plays hard and isn’t out there starting fights. When I think douchery, I think of guys like Papelbon or even more so Yordana Ventura and Odor now. Guys that pick fights just to do it, even if it’s their own teammate.
In competition, there is going to be trash talk, and Harper definitely does that. But the douches are the ones that take it to the next level, and I don’t think Harper is that at all. He’s not out there punching guys or taking cheap shots. Just my opinion.
I’m a Met fan, and don’t mind Harper. He plays the game the right way and seems respectful, towards the game, it’s history and the other players.
There’s been a lot heaped on him from a young age, I think he’s actually handled it pretty well.
As far as that trade goes, Sale is going to get back a crazy haul, they are not getting him with the likes of Giolito and some mid range prospects. (especially with Giolito showing growing pains) There are too many teams willing to push all in, it will take everything they have in the farm. And the top of the farm, not the middle.
Even then it might not be enough because there are other teams with more high end young talent that will join the mix.
Halos would move Trout and Pujols for Harper, Giolito, Robles and Joe Ross.
Why in the world would the Nationals do that? Pujols doesn’t fit with Zimmerman, not to mention his contract. And then Harper, Giolito and Robles plus Ross for Trout? Harper is an MVP type himself. Trout is worth more, but it’s not worth Harper plus two top 10 prospects and Ross.
Zero chance they have enough to get both without Turner. What would be the point of trading Sale if Giolito is the headliner. The Sox have had plenty of success developing pitching recently. They are targeting position players.
The nationals do not have a position player that is MLB ready without Turner. Robles is way too far off the headline a Sale trade in my opinion. That is why I think there is no way the Sox will trade with the Nationals.
People act like the Sox have to trade Sale now, they don’t. They will wait and get what they want. Some of the offers I have seen fans offer up are hilarious.
In the last couple seasons there have been no high end pitchers that have brought back an underwelming package of players. And these are for pitchers not nearly as valuable as Sale.
Prospects are just that until prover otherwise. I bet several of these “untouchables” that teams will not give up will bust.
As a Pirates fan, I fully believe the Nats could get McCutchen for barely anything at all. I’m sure the Pirates’ management will even include top level prospects to GO to Washington with McCutchen.
I think the White Sox would like to trade Sale – don’t have to but would love to.
Seems like he’s not the clubhouse presence they want.
They’re looking to get back into the swing of things 2-3 years from now.
If they can load up from a Sale move before he cuts up another jersey or tears his TJ- that’ll be a huge win for them
You can’t get Sale without Robles unless you’re giving up Turner. Giolito and Robles have to be involved if Turner isn’t in the deal.
“Ross and Robles (and maybe a lesser, wild card prospect like Taylor Hearn was in the Melancon deal) for McCutchen seems fair.”
Pirates fan here. I’d do that quick, but I doubt the Nats would..
I’d also look at a deal where Gio Gonzalez and his contract come back to Pittsburgh.
Unless the Nats trade their whole farm system and Turner, they are not getting both. Let the unrealistic Winter Meeting rumors begin!!!
In my opinion, they have the chips to get both done without including Turner. I’m not sure why they’d be willing to give up way too much to get Sale though, they already have a rotation fronted by Scherzer and Strasburg. Dealing for McCutchen (or failing to do that, signing Desmond) and resigning Melancon would be the best move for them.
They’d do it because they’d win the world series with that trio. Sale is cheap money wise on top of that. And theres no way a deal for Sale alone won’t include Turner, no Turner no Sale simple.
The Nats won’t do that. Guaranteed. They need line lineup help more than they need SP, and Rizzo (and everyone here in DC) knows this. Giolito
They do not have the pieces to get both without Turner. No way.
How’d that work out for them in playoffs
I would hold. I like all the prospects the Nats have. That is your future. Harpers prime will be when he is 27-30 years old. The Scherzer deal is forcing the clock. Murphy would need to produce same numbers.
Harper won’t be on the team during his 27-30 prime years. There is no way in hell he stays in Washington after the 2018 season.
I didn’t know you were a psychic, Lerner has some deep pockets. It’s possible
teds old (91) and rich , so hes gonna be dead in a few years. he wants a championship bad.
To get both every one of those prospects are gone. And Joe Ross. And all of that still might not be enough
Rays need to get Turner back.
I don’t remember all the specifics but if I remember right the Nats sent Souza to Rays, and the Padres sent Turner to Nats. Can’t remember who went from Tampa to SD…
Wasn’t Joe Ross in the deal, too?
Yes, technically, the deal was Joe Ross and a PTBNL (Trea Turner) went to Washington.
Turner was never in the Rays org. He was a Padres draftee.
I think Washington need to make this happen. I agree with the post that says Rizzo will be fired if he doesn’t win (or at least make it to the Series) in the next two years. As for Harper, he will be gone after the 2018 season. No way in hell he resigns with Washington. Might as well win now why they have a chance.
(I’m a die hard Cubs fan so good luck getting passed us 🙂
sale seems too much of a risk. sure he has talent, but he’s already Bart simpsoned his rep. Nats should get. Cutch. he’s a class act, and he’s great for the community.And if last year was his “bad year” , hopefully it’s out of his system. The numbers that could be put up by a 1 2 punch of Cutch and Harper would rival Rizzo/Bryant.
Rizzo is one of the top GM’s in the game. Not sure why ever year it seems like his job is in jeopardy. He should be so lucky to be fired by that organization. Rizzo would have another GM job in no time
Listening to comments from both Cubs GM Jed Hoyer and White Sox GM Rick Hahn recently when the issue of an inter-city trade came up, it seems as if a trade between the city rivals is unlikely despite a favorable match up in talent…the White Sox surplus pitching and the Cubs abundance of young quality hitters. It also seems as if the Cubs are more reluctant than the White Sox when it comes to any deal between the clubs.
If that’s the case, a trade involving Chris Sale to the Washington Nationals could serve two purposes. Improve the White Sox chances to be more competitive in the future while hurting the Cubs chances for the next three seasons by sending another ace pitcher to a chief N.L. rival that already has Max Scherzer under contract through 2021 and Stephen Strasburg through 2023. Tanner Roarke is also under team control through 2019 as an arb-eligible which would make Gio Gonzalez a pretty formidable #5 pitcher assuming that both Joe Ross and #1 prospect Lucas Giolito are part of the return package for Sale.
Perhaps the Cubs should think twice about their reluctance to deal with the White Sox, especially regarding Sale. The White Sox actually match up better on paper with the Cubs than virtually any other club with the possible exception of the Boston Red Sox. Both teams have what the White Sox covet…an abundance of MLB ready position players who can hit. The Red Sox advantage is a deeper farm system, The Cubs plus is that they are in the National League. Apparently the city rivalry and a fear of PR backlash is more important than actually improving each teams fortunes. If the White Sox do indeed trade Sale to the Nationals, it could be a move that both teams regret, especially the Cubs.
Didn’t White Sox come out and say they wouldn’t trade to Cubs? Hoyer came out and said Cubs would . Sox backtracked and said they would trade now with Cubs? Cubs would love to have sale. Cheap contract for several years for a top 5 pitcher. It makes sense why two teams from same city or rivals have harder time trading but if it benefits both teams you do it. Baez happ Jimenez cease for sale? Cubs need young pitcher with arrieta and lackey possibly gone after next year .
Rather keep the prospects, and get Otani in 2018. The 4 you mentioned will be cost controlled assets for years, which would help to pay for Otani.
That would be an offer the Sox should consider and one I hope the Cubs would not offer
Agreed but that’s my point, why wouldn’t Sox consider that type offer instead of coming out saying nothing would they consider from Cubs?
The matter of intra-city trades was a big story in Chicago this past week on the eve of the winter meetings. The following link explains the possibility: http://m.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article/209958862/cubs-white-sox-gms-address-trade-report/
From what I’ve learned about Chicago over the years, there’s hardcore fans on the north side and the south side that will follow their respective teams to the gates of hell, and then there’s the whoever-is-winning-right-now fans that are obviously big on the Cubs at the moment. There’s a lot of money in being better than the other Chicago team.
There actually is no more or less money in Chicago for being better then the other team. Team attendance has nothing to do with how the other team is doing and everything to do with how the home team is doing.
Well all reports are that its the White Sox who will not deal with the Cubs. The only “source” that has it the other way is you.
Also you state a secondary reason for the White Sox to trade Sale to the Nationals is to stick it to the Cubs? Get real. The White Sox are not trading Sale to the Nationals or anyone to try to help them beat the Cubs. They only make a Sale trade to improve their team.
Where do you come up with this crap?
Read the link I already posted on this thread and see for yourself: http://m.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article/209958862/cubs-white-sox-gms-address-trade-report/
Btw-Btw-Here are some notable trades that were actually consummated between the Cubs and White Sox:
Dec. 11, 1973: IF Ron Santo is traded to the White Sox for P Ken Frailing, P Steve Stone, C Steve Swisher and a player to be named (P Jim Kremmel).
March 28, 1981: P Ken Kravec is acquired from the White Sox for P Dennis Lamp.
Jan. 26, 1983: P Steve Trout and P Warren Brusstar are acquired from the White Sox for IF Scott Fletcher, P Randy Martz, IF Pat Tabler, and P Dick Tidrow.
March 30, 1992: OF Sammy Sosa and P Ken Patterson are acquired from the White Sox for OF George Bell.
July 29, 1998: P Matt Karchner is acquired from the White Sox for P Jon Garland.
Nov. 16, 2006: P Neal Cotts is acquired from the White Sox for P David Aardsma and P Carlos Vasquez.
All except the first one resulted in players being exchanged who actually helped influence playoff clubs in Chicago.
It’s best to avoid any and all comments made by that username. Everything he/she writes is conspiratorial, hyperbolic or just plain irrational.
Why not Justin Verlander and JD Martinez then?
1. It would be a single deal.
2. Tigers may be willing to pay $10MM/year of JVs salary if the can get Giolito and 2 other major league ready players…less if the Nats pay JVs salary.
Would probably have to clear it with Max…as he did not like being #2 to Justin in Detroit.
I thought Detroit weren’t looking for a salary dump type deal for Justin? Aside from that I think they would both kill in the NL
JD will play what position for Nationals? Whatever it is, I hope it does not require BH in center.
I think they should not trade for Cutch….and give up prospects. I think you just bring back Desi!!! He can play CF, Turner back to SS, and then Desi can also be the back up SS.
Trade a great future for a head case and a declining outfielder. Smart!!
If I were Mike Rizzo I’m saying to myself that there’s a good chance Harper doesn’t stay with nats in two years and neither does Murphy. So time is now to win. In order to get McCutchen and Sale they are going to have to give up their top two prospects but I believe they don’t have to give up trea turner. They can give up Victor Robles who the pirates covet and Joe Ross who I feel in 2 years has proven he’s going to be a solid big league pitcher for McCutchen it also does help that Joe Ross has a career 3.26 era against the Nl central. And McCutchen is coming off the worst year of his career and is 30 now so I feel this is a solid enough package. For sale it’s going to take a lot more than that… I feel they have to give up goiloto, severino, Roark , and Zimmerman. This fits both teams needs. Whitesox get back a solid starter to plug into the rotation, get nats #1 prospect and a future ace, get a catching prospect that showed a lil bit that he will be a solid major league catcher which whitesox drastically need a catcher, zimmerman can DH or play 1st which can give them a still competitive lineup and rotation so they’re not rebuilding but are setup for the future. Nationals can go get Brandon moss to play 1st base then which I feel is a way more solid option than Ryan Zimmerman at this point. Plus they are only projected to have 2 lefties in the lineup right now so they need a lil bit more balance. Plus they still have solid prospects both positionally and pitching. Aka fedde, voth, lopez, stevenson, reetz, etc and they keep trea turner to build around during rebuild when Harper leaves in 2 years.
So for 2 years of Cutch they give up a Top prospect and A good young Pitcher ……… For 3 years of Sale sox have to take Zimmerman contract a good young pitcher and 2 prospects ………… Wow Don’t know how this Rick Hahn hasn’t done this already
Why would the White Sox want a 32 year old Zimmerman as part of a Sale package? That makes zero sense
If the nationals pull of both of these trades and do not win the world series, harper is gone and will be with the yankees.
Harper may be gone even if they do pull off both of those trades and win the WS.
Just Another Fan
LMAO at all these stupid teams really saying “We want this elite player, but we aren’t going to give up our best prospects for them” – that’s not how this game works.
Unless Sale is bringing in Turner, Benintendi, Swanson or Bregman, then it’s absolutely not worth it for Chicago and they should keep him.
So he can play for a terrible team then leave in free agency? They should take a mixture of great prospects if they can get it
They can get the same mediocre prospect packages people are suggesting in his walk year. Maybe even mid season walk year.
I agree. Sale is not getting traded unless the White Sox get exactly what they want in return. There is no reason to lower the price tag as they can just keep him and always move him at the deadline to a contender.
Sale would require a minimum of Giolito and Robles, plus a lot more
Realistically they should hold out for a bigger offer though. The key is that the White Sox are willing to trade Sale, not that they have to.
True, but how long do they want to wait to start the rebuild? If they keep him, should they still move everyone else, or should they try to add around him? They do need to decide what they are doing. I have to think he is the key piece in what direction they take.
The Nats could do it any team could completely drain their farm system and make this move. It’s unrealistic but if The Nats trade 10 prospects for these 2 guys it’ll be insane but they would be able to accomplish this.
They have a very solid team – load up on another ace try to move Giolito with 2 more top 10 prospects
As a Braves fan, I hope the Nats do not get Sale. Not because I want the Braves to get him, but because I do not want a team with that type of rotation in our division. Man, that would be tough.
Without Robles, it should now cost Ross AND Lopez plus two other legit prospects for Cutch..
Random question about the Nats….are they still the Expos?
Meaning….when the Atlanta Thrashers moved to Winnipeg to become the Jets, the franchise legacy moved with them. So, a guy who never played in Winnipeg is the leading scorer of that franchise. Conversely, the original Winnipeg Jets moved to Phoenix in 1996, so Bobby Hull’s career numbers are now with the Phoenix Coyotes, not the new Jets. It’s a mess.
OTOH, when the Cleveland Browns moved to Baltimore to become the Ravens, the NFL left the team’s history behind and the Ravens behaved as a new franchise. So, Bernie Kosar’s career numbers are not with the Raven’s franchise.
Would Bryce Harper have to pass Larry Walker and Vlad Guerrero on the franchise’s hit and HR lists or did the Nationals start clean?
Cutch was a good hitter, albeit not great. He was awful defensively. He isnt worth 4 top prospects
Any team that acquires Cutch is projecting him to rebound or else they are not trading for him at any price.
Andrew Miller netted 4 top prospects. Ken Giles netted 5. A guy two years removed from MVP voting should net a similar package even with the risk.
Any team that pays for what is PROJECTED, rather than what they have done, will be in last place. They will pay on the “what have you done lately” basis. If Cutch repeats last year, they will have over paid. If he wins the MVP again, they got a bargain. Which do you think is more likely to happen?
I disagree. Giles is young and both he and Miller were both were traded after dominating years. Cutch is being traded after his worst year ever at age 30 and showing signs of decline. Not the same at all.
Exactly. And consider what he would cost on the open market. Holliday signed for 13 million, Beltran for 16 million. Cutch is better than both of those players, although the reasoning differs for both so if you are looking for a specific trait–raw power–you have a case for one of them over Cutch, if you need a DH.
Please explain to me how a good NOT a great hitter is an annual Top 3-5 MVP candidate for the years 2012-2015??? You’re delusional. He was the best player in the NL for at least 2 maybe 3 of those 4 years with the only other 3 in the conversation were Votto, Goldschmidt and Kershaw.
And he wasnt even close last year. He was arguably the third best outfielder on his team
he also left ST with a a bit of a knee problem and spent most of last year with a thumb injury. The post that indicated that those teams willing to trade for Cutch are banking on him returning to his 2015 form or more. There is no team willing to trade for a 2016 Andrew McCutchen who is in decline? So why should the Pirates settle for less value?
btw, the third best outfielder comment has more to do with Polanco and Marté than anything else. They are both blossoming superstars,
Because he MAY BE in decline. If he repeats last year, what will his value be then?
Because teams are trying to buy low. Obviously the team acquiring Cutch is hoping he returns to 2015 form. But that doesn’t mean they’re going to be willing to give up all of their top prospects for Cutch. 2 good/top prospects plus a third prospect should be enough. Expecting 4 legit prospects is putting an extremely high price tag on Cutch. The league is a “what-have-you-done-for-me lately” type of league, because of that, teams are paying for Cutch based on his value being somewhere between his 2015 and 2016.
Yes they carry the Expos franchise records.
I sure wish the Cardinals would spend the prospects and the money to be in on both Sale and McCutchen. I truly believe that would cure all of their problems!!!
The Cardinals could get Cutch. I doubt they have the goods to get Sale. Unless they trade the pitchers you want to pair him with.
This makes sense for the Nats. They really want to win now. I think they were the most likely to get Sale because they would make everyone but Trea Turner available. I think if Sale is moved it is to the Nats.
So if Washington is unwilling to move Robles, Turner, Gilioto, Lopez, or Ross, how to they expect to get McCutchen or Sale?
They deemed Turner untouchable and said they don’t want to trade Robles for Cutch. They never said the others were off limits, and I’m sure they would trade Giolito and maybe even Robles for Sale. They definitely have enough to get both if they really wanted, which it seems like they do.
No they don’t. Because the Pirates won’t and shouldn’t trade a healthy perennial MVP candidate with a potential for a 5-6 WAR season in that Nationals lineup for a package not consisting of at least Robles AND Lopez and probably another SP prospect like Fedde or Voth.
He is no longer a perennial MVP candidate and never will be again
Not going to happen from the Nats end. Rizzo NEVER overpays. You want to believe Cutch’s 2016 season didn’t exist, but it did. Your offer may be where the Pirates started, but if that’s their BAFO, Rizzo would’ve walked long ago.
In the long-term best interets of the franchise, the Nationals should look to deal Harper. He’s two years away from leaving anyway, and they haven’t won anything with him. Think of the package they could get for him.
Greg Byrd or Aaron Judge
C.C. Sabathia (they’re looking for pitching, but don’t necessarily need an ace; Sabathia on a one year deal could provide depth and innings for a team that wants to win it all)
This leaves the Nationals with two long-term players, and pitching/outfield depth for a run at the title in 2017.
(I’m aware I’ll get a ton of backlash for suggesting trading Harper, and while he may become an all-time great it’s not going to happen in D.C. They can either make a long-term investment by dealing him, or hope they win it all in 2017/18 and then watch him sign with the Yankees anyway.)
Why would the Yankees trade for Harper right now when he is set to hit free agenecy in two years anyways? The Yankees are rebuilding now.
Yeah, no way that happens. And that is not nearly a good enough return for Harper. Why would the Nats try to contend this year after trading Harper? They are much better off trading prospects this year and if all else fails, sell off at the deadline next year where they would have guys like Scherzer, Strasburg, Harper, Sale if they do get him, and others. It makes zero sense for them to trade him now while they are trying to contend. And if they do, it’s going to take a lot more than unloading Sanchez, Judge or Byrd, and a couple of terrible contracts for guys that are aging in Gardner and Sabathia. Harper is their biggest power threat, a very good outfielder, and MVP candidate.
The Nationals are trying to win a World Series in the next 2 years. Why would they move Harper?
They aren’t playing for the long term. They are playing for the short term. Its what you do when you are close.
I think one of Ross or Roark and Glover and another top 10 org or two top 30 prospects for Cutch could get it done. If possible a catching prospect that’s a few years out yet. Maybe the Pirates sending one of their fringe prospects back or maybe John Jaso if they need a first basemen? Fills two big needs for the pirates.on the MLB team and gets a player or two back for the farm.
Welp time to start working with the dodgers and other teams. Nats dont want to give up robles who the pirates made the center peice of their deals it seemed. Time to move on and find another team who fits our needs.
Start talks with the Rangers again and see if they include Gallo. Have him play first and maybe move back to third if Kang doesn’t shape up the off the field issues.
There’s absolutely no way the Nats get both these guys without trading Turner, Giolito and Robles
I think they can do it without trading Turner no way without Giolito and Robles plus a lot more.
Nationals have to do the cutch deal, look what the cubs and mets are paying Hayward a cespedes, and cutch is much better hitter than Hayward and better fielder than cespedes and he’s half the price
While that might be true for their respective careers, Cespedes had a better year than McCutchen offensive and defensively in 2016. And saying that someone is a better hitter than Heyward isn’t saying much, especially when McCutchen’s defense doesn’t hold a candle to Heyward’s, nor his baserunning and OBP.
Yes, McCutchen has been solid, but who knew his floor could be so low and it presumably not be affected by an injury?
Reminds me of John Hurt’s character in Contact: “Why buy one when you can get two at twice the price?”
Would certainly be impressive if they could get McCutchen and Sale without giving up Turner and/or Robles. IF they accomplished that, I’d have undersold the depth of their farm system that I know is quite deep.
I don’t think that’s possible. For Sale alone, they may have to move Robles and Turner. If WS are requesting position player prospects in return, Nationals don’t have too many of those. These two are their best.
Rizzo’s ammo has always been contention every year so reports of him trying to trade for both Sale and McCutchen seem unlikely. Those trades will decimate Nationals farm system.
Sale seems like a luxury. We have Max, Stras, Ross, and Roark already in place. Getting Sale does not add as many wins as a solid position player would. I think we should not be aiming for him. I would rather trade for Eaton who will not come cheap either but fills our need of an OF and a lefty bat. Basically you will have Turner, Eaton, Harper, Murphy, Werth, RZ, Rendon, Norris. That’s not a bad lineup.
If AM requires 4 top prospects in return, I prefer Nationals moving on. I don’t think he is worth all that much. You will basically be getting him for one year if he tanks again. Like I said earlier, Eaton seems more reasonable choice.
Eaton would cost a very considerable amount in a trade. He is cost controlled for the next 5 seasons at a cheap rate.
The Sox would be asking for a package similar to Sale in order to move him
I think the Nats could definitely get these done without giving up Turner. My guess is they won’t give up Robles for Cutch because the Sox have most likely demanded him included in a package for Sale.
For Sale: Giolito, Robles, Fedde, + another Top 20 Nats prospect along with 1-2 low to mid level prospects.
For Cutch: Ross (Or Lopez), Voth, Banks + 1-2 low to mid level prospects
That would be a pretty good haul for the Nats and they’d still have either Lopez or Ross and Turner and as a Sox fan I’d be ok with that for Sale (Way better than anything the Braves have to offer).
I disagree I think Sox are looking more for position players who can hit. We have never had trouble developing pitching and are looking for better more MLB ready position players to get back for Sale. I think other teams Astros especially are going to give that up for Sale, Red sox should but they for some reason don’t seem interested much.
You’re right. They’re looking for talented position players they can build around in exchange for Sale and Quintana.
chisox18 ” We have never had trouble developing pitching”
The White Sox in the last 10 years have ranked 17th overall in team ERA and only once have they cracked the top 10. That’s not a team that knows how to develop pitching.
The White Sox also play in a hitter friendly park.
They drafted Chris Sale in 2010 and quickly developed him as a MLB reliever on their active roster before moving him into the rotation in 2012.
They also acquired Jose Quintana from the Yankees and developed him into one of the premier starting pitchers in MLB.
Carlos Rodon was their #1 pick in 2014 and is another collegiate selection (like Sale) who is being fast-tracked by the White Sox. The same might be said for #1 college picks Carson Fulmer (2015) and Zack Burdi (2016)
The White Sox have also drafted and/or developed other pitchers who have helped their own staff, were traded for key players or both. Hector Santiago was an effective swing-man before being dealt for Adam Eaton, Addison Reed was a closer on the South Side before being traded for Mat Davidson (yikes!) while Daniel Hudson also pitched briefly in Chicago before being moved. Boone Logan another.
Another notable pitcher was Gio Gonzalez who the club drafted , traded, re-acquired and then traded again. The White Sox have also had some degree of success with other bullpen pitchers that include former closer Sergio Santos and current relievers Nate Jones and Jake Petricka.
Former key relievers who were traded for and then blossomed with the White Sox include Bobby Jenks, Matt Thornton and Neal Cotts.
Thank you and Spencer Adams looks good coming through the system and I think Alec Hansen is going to be a stud.
Alec Hansen was a beast after getting drafted. He has legit talent. I’m excited to see him progress.