DEC. 2: Talks between the Nationals and Pirates have continued into the morning, tweets Stephen J. Nesbitt of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. The Pirates have been breaking down video footage of Nationals prospects this morning, he adds. The Nats remained “in the lead” for McCutchen as of late last night, per MLB Network’s Jon Morosi (on Twitter), though Morosi notes that the Rangers have been in contact with the Pirates about McCutchen as well.
DEC. 1: The Nationals and Pirates have “ramped up” their negotiations on a possible deal involving star center fielder Andrew McCutchen, Jayson Stark of ESPN.com reports. There are indications that the Nats would like to wrap up an agreement today; it seems the club may well non-tender shortstop Danny Espinosa if it adds McCutchen.
The connection between McCutchen and Espinosa involves Trea Turner, who could play either center or short. If Washington adds a new option in the outfield, Turner would surely move to his accustomed shortstop position, and the Nats would apparently not be interested in retaining Espinosa at a projected $5.3MM salary. (He could, of course, be traded.)
We’ve heard some chatter about possible pieces involved between these clubs, which reportedly explored a deal over the summer but couldn’t quite reach an agreement. The Bucs are said to be eyeing top outfield prospect Victor Robles, but it remains unclear whether the Nationals have any willingness to part with him. Stark notes that young, MLB-level pitchers such as Joe Ross and Reynaldo Lopez would hold appeal to Pittsburgh as well, and both (along with several other possibilities) certainly could be in play.
The Nationals would presumably utilize McCutchen in center, where he has long played in Pittsburgh. There were newfound questions about his ability to stick there after metrics panned his work in 2016, though perhaps Washington would only need to commit to him in center for a single season. Still, McCutchen isn’t quite as appealing an asset in a corner position, particularly given the risk that he doesn’t bounce back after a .256/.336/.430 year at the plate.
McCutchen also isn’t particularly cheap. With $14MM coming to him next season and a $14.5MM option for 2018, he’s hardly expensive. And that’s a pittance if he can return to his former superstar form. Having just turned 30, McCutchen represents a reasonable risk for a high-spending contender like the Nationals, though just how much willingness the team has to part with major young assets to take that chance remains to be seen.
Espinosa, Robles, and Fedde would probably get it done
Lol
It surely would.
I find it hard to believe the nationals would part with Robles though and even Giolito. I could see the Joe Ross idea mentioned in the article being very realistic too.
I agree. No Giolito or Robles, but Ross is definitely a possibility.
I bet it takes Giolito AND Robles to do it. Not one or the other, both. McCutchen is a true superstar. Had one down year now everyone thinks they can lowball the Pirates and steal him for a package that is quantity, not quality. Two potential superstars for one proven superstar. Fair trade. Nats get a new leader. Pirates gets two MAYBE future stars. Plus some filler maybe thrown in from each side.
Trading both would be a huge mistake. I know neither are proven but you are basically getting AM at market rate for 1-2 years. Giolito was rated best prospect just months ago and Robles has dramatically risen in ranks this past season. AM’s defense already sounds like a liability and if his bat continues the downward trend, this will hurt even more. I am skeptical about his acquisition.
Hard to believe they would give two of the best prospects in their system, and in all of baseball, for a guy who is clearly on the downside of his career. He has been in a decline for two years now, doubtful he will be the one guy who turns it around at his age
Whoa way below market rate. 14 mil a year is about half what cespedes is getting and he’s hardly twice the player Cutch is.
Two years? I’ll give you last year, but he had a .889 OPS in 2015 and finished 5th in MVP voting. Where’s the decline there?
I think Robles and either Ross or Lopez, maybe a lower grade ML as 3rd player. Pirates looking at videos of prospects today, would seem to indicate a lower level ML. Might Watson be included?
Well he did have a .952 OPS and finish 3rd in MVP voting in 2014, so that is by definition decline year over year.
Way 2 much Fede and Espinoza would do it
I highly doubt that.
Not a chance. The Pirates wouldn’t just give him away for that.
I think Robles is included or the Pirates don’t do it
We’ll see. I’d be very surprised. Rizzo is a good trade-maker and Robles is imo way too much. They don’t need a CF THAT badly.
Mccutchen is owed 30M is on the wrong side of 30 posted 0.7 WAR and -16.5 dWAR which was the climax of what has been a 3 year trend… Espy posted 1.7 WAR just to provide prospective, we are not talking MVP Cutch hitting 27 with 3+ years of control here smh
McCutchen would be just fine. Not like Turner has good metrics in center (-3 fangraphs). So it really comes down to taking a slight hit in defense by getting McCutchen and moving Turner to his natural position and trading Espinosa OR rely on Espinosa to stay healthy and continue to put up good defensive WAR. Espinosa is not a better hitter than McCutchen; not even last year with the miserable year McCutchen had
I have to agree here as if Robles is not in the deal then the Pirates don’t do it.we don’t really need a SS but we can use another quality outfielder and we need a good SP
Trade would be for the future so…
Espinosa is not a better hitter than much of anyone. I’ve been shocked that the Nats have played him every day for this long.
Trust me, he’ll be better than what you mentioned.
People are forgetting that the pirates publicly came out and said that they take some of the blame for cutch’ s defense by the way they positioned him last year, he never really was that great on defense but I don’t think last year was an accurate representation of his defensive abilities
Also not sure what you mean by hitting 27, are you talking about age or homers. Because he hit 24 last year in a terrible year for him so not really worth bringing up his homerun totals
McCutchen plays really shallow for a center fielder. Deter Fowler’s defensive numbers improved greatly when The Cubs moved him back. Yes, more singles but less doubles and triples. I don’t know if McCutchen has the athleticism to make it work like Fowler did – Cutch has stopped stealing bases completely, so there’s some possibility he doesn’t have the wheels anymore. But that might be a simple fix to his bad defensive metrics.
Rizzo was ripped off by the Pirates before. Let’s see if it happens again. I bet it does.
I highly, highly doubt this deal gets done without at least one of Ross, Giolito, Lopez, or Robles.
I don’t even see the Pirates doing it if it’s just Lopez and Fedde involved, to be honest, unless there are some other intriguing pieces included (such as Wilmer Difo, Austin Voth, Carter Kieboom, Koda Glover, AJ Cole, Michael Taylor, Dane Dunning, etc.)
My prediction: Joe Ross, Wilmer Difo, Austin Voth, and Michael Taylor
With Turner at short and Cutch in center, Difo and Taylor aren’t really needed anymore, and Robles should be ready in a few years. The Nats have plenty of pitching depth, so losing Voth isn’t a major problem. The Pirates need a better shortstop than Mercer, and Meadows could still use some seasoning in the minors, so Taylor could man center until he’s ready.
And Ross as a headliner makes the most sense to me for a few reasons:
1) He should be valuable enough that the Nats don’t have to give up too much talent with him. Plus,
2) Washington doesn’t need him that badly – Scherzer, Roark, and Strasburg are an excellent top three, Gonzalez slots in fourth, and it would still leave the Nats several options in Lopez, Giolito, Cole, and Fedde – all of whom are supremely talented.. If worse comes to worse, the Nats have the farm to acquire a cheap back-end starter.
3) Pittsburgh, on the other hand, could really use Ross. There’s a lot of uncertainty in the rotation. The only one who was consistently good last season was Taillon. Assuming Cole and Kuhl also have spots, it still leaves two openings without much to fill them – Glasnow, Brault, Locke, and Hutchinson. Glasnow is a top prospect, but still unproven, and he struggled last season. Brault doesn’t have great stuff and was not good in the rotation last season. Locke and Hutchinson aren’t the type of starters you want on a contending team – both posted 5.00+ ERA’s for Pittsburgh last season. I think it’s very risky to count on getting just one solid starter from those four next season, let alone two.
Could be completely wrong, but that’s just my two cents.
Yea thats a good trade especially since Austin Voth is very highly regarded. I just feel that the Nationals may have to give in to the Pirates demands a bit because of the amount of suitors he could have.
I would say the Jays(could be losing both Encarnarcion, and Bautista),Rangers(who have a bit of an undesirable OF now),Giants(they might want to add another OF and were also right in the middle of the Cespedes talks before the Mets re-signed him), Nationals(you guys since you can move Turner anywhere),Astros(the wild card in all of this), and maybe the Yankees(haven’t been readily mentioned but they have the prospects to make the move). So it should be interesting.
But not to keep repeating, your trade idea is awesome and it could be enough.
Well Locke was sent out for assignment so it’s a good bet that he is history and as far as Hutchinson I don’t even know why they acquired him in the first place
Locke’s already gone. Without one of the Nats top three or four guys, the Bucs can probably get a better deal elsewhere. Rizzo is counting on the Bucs being just a bit anxious.
locke was dfa a coupla days ago. we also have nick kingham returning from tj. i think he should be available for the start of the season, less super 2 constraints.
Well stated, connorreed. I agree.
I definitely agree with that. I think Michael Taylor will be involved in the trade. He only pinched hit/ran for the Nats and played outfield when there was injury present. I don’t know if the Pirates would necessarily need Taylor but the Nationals wouldn’t need him if they get McCutchen.
Or the Bucs just walk. They don’t HAVE TO trade. He will surely rebound, and if not in contention trade in July.
lol yeah Frede and Espinosa would definitely do it…if the Nats throw in Bryce Harper lol. You’re insane.
Maybe Lopez fedde Espinosa, nats or any other team are going to have to overpay for cutch considering most teams would be happy to have a cf with his last yeas production and he’s a strong candidate to bounce back, he did the last month of 2016
eh no? Why would the pirates take Espinosa who is going to be non-tendered and also a side grade at best?
Feddi and Robles don’t look bad but don’t fit any of the pirates needs.for MLB NOW pitching
I would expect one of the MLB Starters pitchers, one of the Catching prospects and/or Antuna as part of a deal.
Many believe that Robles could be the best prospect in baseball a year or two from today. Every team has a need for that type of ceiling .
While adding Robles would be great, the pirates already have a nice outfield with marte polanco and meadows coming. Adding fedde and Lopez would give them a rotation of cole tallion glasnow Lopez fedde in a year or 2. If they all live up to their potential it’s very healthy mets like rotation, just a thought
That could be true, but the pirates have one of the top prospects in the outfield already (meadows) a couple young utility guys that can play corner well enough and a couple other OF prospects that could be everyday players.. On top of that they have Marte and Polanco locked up for quite a few years,
I would love to have Robles but assuming the pirates want to contend this year they need MLB NOW pitching. Something the Nats have and could fairly easily part with…. On top of all that, you don’t want someone like Robles blocked.
I wouldn’t trade my perennial all-star, MVP and Silver slugger after one down year for things I don’t need unless i already had another trade on the burner… which is definitely possible.
Espinosa is not part of deal he will be non tendered Ross Robles and maybe a 3rd low level prospect as well if not Ross lopez
heck if that is all it takes the cards should just give them Garcia weaver and Adams and heck we will throw in peralta and the 10 million he is owed just to be nice
I’ve wondered why the cards haven’t been mentioned as partners in trade maybe pirates don’t want mccutheon in their division
I would say you are correct in thinking that
you DO NOT trade the face of the franchise….period!!!!!! it sucks being a Pirates fan
Smart teams do it all the time. And less smart teams don’t.
Exactly. The Phillies didn’t. They tried to keep the 2008 magic going. Horrible idea. They’re garbage now with a garbage farm system that was cleaned out trading for pieces trying to win it again.
i understand, but he is easily replaceable and you can get something now for him as his skills start to erode.
Try being an A’s fan and then tell me how bad being a Pirates fan sucks lol
jmr34: you have a real valid point. 🙂
Go througjt 20 consecutive losing seasons. Then you can have an arguement.
LOL at least it is fun for those who like playing GM 🙂
It’s understandable not wanting to see the face of the franchise leave, but you’ve got a lot of incredible talent that at some point need be thrust into a the limelight like Reece McGuire, Alen Hanson, Gerrit Cole, Austin Meadows (!!!), Josh Bell, and eventually Ka’bryan Hayes & Tyler Glasnow. Cutch isn’t going to get any better and if you can add to the pile of prospects, you’ll increase your chances of finding the new face(s) of the franchise that can build on what Cutch helped start and actually win in the playoffs.
There’s a right time and a bad time to get rid of the face of your franchise. This is the right time as he has hit 30 and not knowing If he comes back to form or not. Either way it is a year or two before you start shopping him and if you wait to late or wait for failure again then you get nothing for him, get something while you still can for him
I wish Reese McGuire was still here. He was given away to Toronto in the Liriano trade.
Reese is gone, Hanson will probably be gone too before spring.
Pirates made that mistake in the early 90s, they’re not going to make it again.
McCutchen is no Barry Bonds.
True dat
No. He’s not. He’s not piece of garbage to the fans. He’s respected by his teammates. He’s got way more class and integrity. So no, he’s not Barry Bonds.
And he’s not as good.
Do you want a good player or a good team? Sucks as fans but it’s the nature of good baseball business.
thank you he has made them so much money and he is still in his prime. if you don’t want to pay him in two years let him walk but you don’t trade him
If my man Cutch isn’t ready to move to RF or LF, make it happen—-if he doesn’t want to be a team player….it is what it is
If that is the reason, I would agree. If he’s whining about moving to RF, then I would have to agree he is not thinking about what is best for the team. If…
McCutchen is going to cost what a 2-3 cheap years of a star is going to cost
Would love to see Joe Ross with Pittsburgh
Interesting…
Ross has to be apart of the package coming back to Pittsburgh.
Giolito not being named in the package is interesting
Need to save some trade chips for Sale.
It would be great to get sale but it is not the Pirates style, they don’t like to go after top tier players and pay them,they rather get rid of top players and hope secondary ones pan out, Pirates are one cheap organization
Actually, I was referring to the Nats will need trade chips if they were to pursue Sale.
Agreed. They would likely need at least Giolito and Robles to headline that one with some other pieces on top of that. I feel like that’s their better route anyways. They can just as easily leave Turner in CF for another year.
They’re cheap because they have to be lol. They don’t have the money like the Yankees, so they can’t just buy whoever they want. All these Pittsburgh fans that are saying the bucs will never win a World Series because they don’t spend don’t know anything about baseball. It takes luck for a small market team to make it to the big game, look at the royals; they won it, and then they crashed. Now they are considering moving their core because they can’t afford them. That’s what small market teams do. They build a contender, move them, and then build another contender. They can’t keep paying guys into their 30’s because they can’t afford to be stuck in a lost contract. The Liriano trade is a perfect example of this; he burned and they had to move two quality prospects to get the money off the books. The Pirates will contend for the World Series; however, they won’t buy people to do this.
The Kansas City Royals had a payroll of $137,606,125 in 2016 they have around the same market size of the Pirates yet sports nearly a 40 million dollar payroll higher then the .Pirates. Yes the Pirates don’t have the kind of money as teams like the Dodgers but they have more money that they could spend then what they let on.
the Pirates also haven’t “needed” to spend big. Most of their starting team is in house team friendly or rookie contracts.
This year. as of my last info:
Bell, Harrison, Mercer, Kang, Cervelli, Marte, Cutch, Polanco with a rotation of Cole, Kuhl, Taillon, Glasnow, Brault, Kingham with Watson, Bastardo, Nicasio,Hughes,Rivero and Schugel(sp?) in the pen
Clearly there are some weak spots but where are you going to spend 40 million to give the team a championship?
No one’s been named. Robles was just whom the Bucs were asking for last year when they talked. No reason to suspect the Nats would even consider it.
My guess is Fedde-Ross-third prospect who’s a position player and certainly nowhere near Robles’ value. Even that’s a big of an overpay but the Nats are close and gotta go for it.
Ross, Fedde and an A ball position player with upside but also a few big holes in his game sounds about right to me
buccos: Throw in Michael Taylor going to Pittsburgh and Elias Diaz heading to D.C. and your deal is the best I’ve seen.
Pirates don’t need Taylor and the Pirates don’t want to part with their only catching prospect..
I really like Joe Ross.
Anyone know how many years of control he has left?
Joe Ross is two years away from even being arbitration-eligible.
1. The Pirates will never win the World Series under the current ownership and management.
2. The Pirates will never be anywhere near the Penguins and the Steelers.
3. The Pirates will always be a team of losers in the City of Champions.
The bridge year has passed. It was a bridge into the oblivion. 5, 10, 20 more losing seasons in a row, here we go!
you think they have a better chance of winning by keeping McCutcheon?
they have done a pretty good job of staying competitive without the resources of some clubs.
if the Phils had traded away their faces of the franchise earlier, the current rebuild would be alot further along.
lol city of champions. That’s comical.
How is it comical? Pittsburgh is the original city of champions from the 70s. They had the title looooong before Boston did.
The Pirates were a joke for 20 years and the Penguins were going to relocate before they got Crosby. The Steelers are one of the most overrated franchises in American sports. Many NFL teams have more championships than Pittsburgh.
“Many NFL teams have more championships than Pittsburgh.”
If you consider 3 teams (Packers-14; Bears-9; Giants-8) many, then you are right, I suppose. No idea where you get “:The Steelers are one of the most overrated franchises in American sports”, though.
name 1 team that has more Super Bowl wins then the Steelers?
Well, until the Patriots cheated their way to 4 titles, the Red Sox rode the HGH train to a few World Series wins and the Bruins met the softest team this side of the Women’s Bronze game…..
The steelers have 6 championships and the penguins have 4 Stanley cups with a lot of those coming in recent memory. Calling Pittsburgh a city of champions isn’t too far fetched
Didn’t the Pirates, Steelers, and Pitt Football and win in the same year? Multiple cities have won two championships in one year. Have any done three? Yes I know college football isn’t professional, but no sane person would ever argue winning the national championship wasn’t a huge accomplish on par with a professional championship.
Settle down. They’re trading their 3rd best outfielder. They will be a better team next year without him.
It’s more likely than not that you are right, but to be fair, they get peanuts from their local TV deal compared to most teams. I think the deal ends in 2018. So, if they are still cheap ******s in 2019, then we’ll know for sure.
The Pens would be no different than the Pirates if their sport didn’t have a salary cap.
maybe you should have ran for president
Good grief. Get over yourself. The Pirates are a smart organization.
This is the smart move. They are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Overpay him on the other side of 30 or let him go for nothing and risk that he pulls a Carlos Gonzalez (yes, I realize they are different players, but I thought CarGo was long gone after his spell of injuries and lackluster performance).
Normally this would be a ‘pay him for what he HAS done and HAS been to the organization, but last year kind of changed all of that. Not just the performance either.
It’s a shame, but the Pirates basically had a 2 year window they didn’t utilize and now probably won’t be relevant for another 5 years or so.
I’m not totally against trading Cutch, but the rumors of his demise have to stop. He raked in the second half, and one bad half season doesn’t take away a whole career. His contract is a steal and he’s a much better value than any fa or Jay Bruce.
They better get Joe Ross + in the deal.
The team is still relevant without Cutch. The pitching staff has a ton of potential (especially if they add Ross. With Marte, Polanco, and Bell, that’s a good start to a quality offense.
well said
If the Pirates were to get Joe Ross and Victor Robles, that would be a good return for them.
But, then, they should take that money and offer up some low end prospect to the Mets for Jay Bruce. They need power, they need lefty bats and they need someone who can play 1st base and OF. Sounds like Jay Bruce.
Now that’s a deal I could live with.. I wonder if adding Tony Watson would net them Lopez or Fedde????
Pirates won’t trade Watson, the bullpen is already a question mark and he is one of they few who can be entrusted with the closer role. All the talk about trading him is all speculation.
if they got something decent back i can certainly see Watson getting traded, but they’d need to make other moves to add to the pen first.
Pirates don’t have a legit closer on the roster and appear to be hoping watson will be good enough until they find a better option.
Watson + a lotto pick prospect…I’d drive Bruce to the airport. 😀
I think Bruce will end up in the AL bc he is a few steps away from being a statue in RF. He can bomb it and when he gets hot he crushes his slash line. I’m just not a fan of him for the NYM (crowded outfield and they already have too many low avg and streaky hitters).
Very interesting pirates are pretty much saying they’re planning on going into rebuild, wouldn’t be surprised if Marte or Polanco start getting in to trade talks to
That’s not what this is saying at all.
Thank you, someone who understands that the pirates are still dangerous.
Are u kidding this has nothing to deal with rebuilding has to do with getting sonething in return before its to late small market teams that are competitive have to get what they A from stars when there is no chance of resigning
What would be a fair trade from The Blue Jays for Andrew McCutchen.
Forget about Stroman, there has to come more from the Pirates besides Andrew McCutchen.(My opinion)
i would trade Stroman for Cutch. His ceiling is a mid rotation starter, we have to many holes that we should deal from our MLB strengths, since our farm system sucks.
Depending on the return of assets back to the Pirates, this might effect any potential rumored trade between the White Sox and Nationals involving Chris Sale.
If Washington deals Robles, consider Sale out of the question for the Nationals. Robles would have to be the second piece of a deal
I’d normally say I agree with that, but I bet they already know what it would take to get Sale at this point. If they were able to work out a deal on that front not involving him, then he could be added. But I agree, I think they would be better off dealing for Sale than Cutch. They don’t need a CF. It’d be awesome if they could get both.
Hope the Pirates get a haul or they’ll be blasted if McCutchen comes back strong in D.C. next season
Not sure about what the last paragraph is trying to say. First it’s states that Cutch isn’t particularly cheap, but then lists his salaries and describes them as hardly expensive, especially if he bounces back to superstar form.
Given current salaries and what they will escalate to in the next couple years, it’s a joke to think that 14 million a year is expensive for an above average/superstar player. If Cutch was on the open market, what kind of contract would he land?
I am no expert, but on the open market I would guess 4/80
hes a better player than Cespedes. Start with that contract and go up something like 5 years/115. remember, he’ll play ALL of 2017 as a 30 year old.
You think he is currently better than Ces? He seems to be trending down. I am not disagreeing with you though.
At the current time…there is no way Cutch is better than Ces. As a CF Cutch had worst def rating than Ces…that takes effort because Ces was on a bad leg and really didn’t want to be in CF last year. As for batting…Ces wins there hands down. Cutch’s value is strongly tied to being in CF, which I’m not sure is realistic going forward (or in the hypothetical of what kind of contract he could command). If he bounces back this year, then this could be a different conversation, but his downward trending numbers over the past two years is concerning.
All of that said..I hope PIT gets a haul for him and he bounces back because he seems like a genuinely good guy who has done a lot for the city of PIT. He deserves a shot at a championship…I just hope it isn’t with WAS.
Yeah, I noticed the writer contradicted themselves with those two sentences at the end of the article as well. He/she should’ve proof read the article before posting it, but they’re all in too much of a hurry to outdo their competitors. Journalism isn’t what it used to be, and with the dumbing down of America in play for years now, it gets worse all the time.
These are my favorite articles because you see what people think the one team will give up and another fan saying the previous fan is an idiot for thinking that will happen, and some times it does. Can’t wait to see what is actually given up. I look for the Nats to overpay. They are probably tired of never living up to the hype in the post season.
If any more than on star prospect is involved this is an absolute bust for the Nats. Cutch is still 15M, has only 2 years left, and three years removed from 27. He had no surgery or known reason for being utterly horrid last season, so maybe bounce back is there but the angle for is an enigma. Cutch has 5 WAR upside, for two years, at 15M per, Ross was 3.3 last year and has six years of control for maybe close to a total of 15M. This is crazy, Rizzo is sick of getting to the dance and watching the girl leave with someone else resulting is silly thoughts.
not true! He had a lingering thumb issue for most of the year. And a minor knee issue coming out of spring training
The Nats have plenty of pitching, but are lacking offense. Clutch is signed for his age 30 and 31 seasons (still part of a player’s prime). It comes down to making the team better now, not 6 years into the future. The Nats don’t want to wait for a player to develop, they want an established producer. Keeping all the pitching will not get them to the dance.
actually, there are quite a few reports of nagging injuries to cutch.. nothing major but every time he’d start to come out of the slump something new would crop up. Might just be as simple as his balance was off after he cut the dreds (sarcasm of course.. well i hope lol) they let him play through most of it because like i said nothing major and really don’t know if it effected his play that much.
Regardless he had a league average year at the plate, a rough time in the field (some of it explained away by changes they made to their positioning that improved some later when they scrapped that idea). At the plate a bounce back is expected and if on the off chance he doesn’t.. it isn’t too expensive for an average market team.
His value is indeed down, but still should fetch a kings ransom.
Trade Cutch for Ross and Robles.
Trade Connor Joe (or some other mediocre prospect) to the Mets for Jay Bruce to play 1st.
DFA Jaso.
Trade Locke for a minor league reliever.
Sign a veteran pitcher who could start or would work out of the pen.
Keep Harrison.
That’s about as good as it gets for the Pirates this offseaon most likely.
They already DFA Locke so I doubt they get anything for him. The Reds tried Bruce at 1st he was unbearably bad. Like Pedro Alvarez bad. Besides that the Mets will get a better prospect than Connor Joe for him.
I don’t think they need a 1b, a platoon of Josh Bell and Freese doesn’t sound that bad, sprinkle in some Jaso and it wouldn’t be a glaring hole. Plus, bells bat makes up for his defense, and his d is bound to improve.
Seems like they are going to need Freese to play a lot of 3B this year.
lol, if nats get mccutchen for pennies on the dollar, mets can kiss their “dynasty” goodbye
Whoever said a dynasty? This time last year you could breathe if you were a Mets fan, but they lost in the WS, and are even more reliant on Cespedes, but now haven’t seen Conforto mature any more, while having major persisting issues with almost everyone in their staff — while the guy they traded away to get Cespedes wins the AL RoY (Fulmer).
As an honest Mets fan. I think it will take one of Robles or Giolito. The Pirates will not want Espinosa because he still is owed a good deal of money in his final contract year.
I think it will be Robles+Lopez+PTBL
Unless Rizzo dances through magic like he did before. He would add that RH bat the Nationals would be seeking since Ramos tore his acl and now is a FA.
Lineup: Turner,Werth,Harper,Mc Cutchen,Murphy,Rendon,Espinosa,Lobaton(assuming they don’t sign Ramos and even so won’t be back till midseason),P
Thats a dominant lineup. After seeing the Mets sign Cespedes and with Ramos FA that does put a bit of pressure on the Nationals and Mike Rizzo to make a trade also Ted Learner the owner of the Nats is 91 and wants a championship.
Im hoping that in the absolute horrible deal that NH made with washington earlier regarding Melancon that they agreed to let the pirates get the upper hand on this trade. Probably not true in the slightest but its noce to dream.
5 years of Rivero for two months of Melancon?
The Pirates would make that deal again 100 out 100 times.
If they can find a similar deal for Watson, they should do it.
I don’t see Rizzo giving up Robles due to the fact that Werth is gone after this season, Harper and Cutch would be possibly be gone the following year. I also don’t see him trading away Lopez or Giolito for Cutch. I could see Fedde and Voth, or Ross and Voth. Maybe AJ Cole gets tossed in a package.
If the Pirates were to get two of Robles, Turner, Ross, or Fedde; I would not be too disappointed. Farm system is already loaded, why not pepper it up even more. There is also a counter argument that they don’t need any more prospects. Guess we’ll see what Meadows is all about unless they have another plan. Rotation needs to improve though, would like to see Watson brought back too. Thoughts?
Possibly Giolito too, not sure if Nats want to rid him or Robles though… oh the possibilities.
Watson showed at the end of last season that he was not strong enough to endure the closer’s role.He blew too many late leads and saves,he needs to get stronger or in a mental state to remain a closer.If they are going to keep him i believe rivero become the closer
Lol at all the Espinosa talk. Even if he was included his value is really limited
career .226 hitter does not get it done for most clubs lol
Their has to be something that the Bucs know about McCutchen that other teams are unaware of ! It that or its a Start of a Decline some guys are washed up in their thirties , I tend to think that the case with This guy !
why can’t it just be that they simply CAN NOT afford him?!?!? they’re rotation has NOT worked out the way they had planned with the exception of Taillon and maybe Cole if he can stay healthy.
Trading Cutch or any other superstar with limited time left on a contract for high level prospects is how any low spending baseball team stays competitive for the long run. Take their shots in 3-4 year window.
I’m surprised they haven’t traded him for a bag of used baseballs yet… just like they did for Melancon
Go look at Rivero’s numbers with the Pirates last year. I think they did fine in that trade.
But look at what other closers got traded for, like Chapman and Miller, the Pirates basically got nothing compared to these other teams…
I thought they got a very good return for 2 months of Melancon. Rivero is going to be dominant LH setup guy or future closer. And Taylor Hearn could be a dominant LH starter down the road.
Someone make a goldschmidt trade proposal.
Goldschmidt to the Yanks for George Steinbrenner’s gravestone.
Godly for a Pirmani’s sandwich and some pirogies.
Goldy for a lifetime supply of cheesesteaks and the phanatics mom.
It comes down to how serious teams are about acquiring McCutchen and what is being offered. We do not know if a bidding war is going on or not. If more than one team really wants him, the price will go up. As for the Pirates side, I am sticking to what I thought early last season. Cutch will be traded and it is a matter of when and not if. The Pirates will move him as soon as they get an offer that they deem that they can’t pass up. This is not a deal that is like the Aramis Ramirez deal to Chicago when it was well known that they Pirates had to dump his salary. Cutch does not have to be moved now due to money They will get more in return now than they will next July or next offseason. The only reason they are liooking to move Cutch is that they will not get into a FA bidding war after 2018. They will move him to get a return as opposed to losing him to a team for a ton of money that would make no sense to pay a guy entering into his age 32 season. If his game was built on a big power bat and not speed, he might be worth more to the Bucs. He would not be worth the risk based on the player he is. Just like JA Happ and Russel Martin, some team will overpay for Cutch in FA. Glad it is not going to be the Pirates.
I’m a Pirates fan and I don’t want to see Cutch go he lead us to the playoffs for the first time in 20 years. Yes he had an off year but players like Andrew McCutchen rise up from an off year and go back to being what he is a super star. If the Pirates don’t get offered a kings ransom for him, then it’s not worth it because McCutchen is a kings ransom, and will prove people wrong because that’s what the dude does.
OMG, why are the Nats considering gutting their farm system for McClutchen? Don’t let a hard on get in the way of logic. The Nats can get a center fielder through bringing back Desmond or getting Fowler without giving up valuable pieces of their future. I would rather have Difo at short than giving up what they would to get Cutch. For that matter, get encaricion for first, moveZimmerman to left field, Harper to center and Worth back to right field.
That outfield would be average at best defensive a liability
Zimmerman was moved to first because of arm injuries that’s not even a possibility.
I thought it was more the Chuck Knoblach disease that did in Zim at third?
Fowler would cost cash wise and also cost a prospect in the way of a draft pick.
Desmond would probably cost about the same, probably have similar batting stats and play a bit better in the OF. If that is a realistic option for the Nats you are probably right. I’m guessing it is just as likely that the Pirates resign Melancon though..
Pirates could also spare Jaso for your 1st base issues.. just ask 😉
Please gods of baseball…
Please let this happen…
and please let the gNats overpay to do it.
I hate to burst your bubble, but looking back at Rizzo’s track record, he doesn’t lose a lot of trades. And from what I have seen, it’s actually the Pirates that are calling these teams trying to work something out. That doesn’t generally spell overpay. Especially when you consider the other teams that they are reaching out to like the Mariners and Rangers. the Nationals are their best match prospect-wise, and they can do it without giving up Giolito or Robles. Otherwise, they leave Turner in CF and get a SS elsewhere. If it gets to that point, they will simply say “hey, for that we could start a package with Giolito and Robles to get Sale”, which helps them a lot more.
We shall see…
I hope it happens, and I hope they give ’em Robles plus
Really, I just want something to go through so we know once and for all what it takes. Just a lot of speculation right now, and there is only one way to find out for sure.
How do you know its the priates that are calling other teams? Know somebody in the front office, or work for them?
No, it was reported somewhere. I can try to find the link. It basically said that they were calling the Mariners and some others that they saw as fits for him.
I have a feeling the pirates called the called seattle just to show the rest of the league that they were serious about trading cutch.
The Rangers still have a solid system and the Mariners have prospects to give. If Pitt gets more teams involved it can drive up the asking price.
Rizzo worries me (as a Mets’ fan) because as you mentioned…he rarely loses a trade. I’m hopeful that the Nats have to overpay if they in fact get him, but I’m not sure Rizzo would allow that to happen. I’m hoping there is a bidding war for Cutch and he goes anywhere but WAS.
I think this deal happens today, Espinosa, Feede, and Baez. Rizzo will save some big cards for a Sale trade..
The pirates would laugj in your face and hang up the phone. Fedde isnt good enough alone to get you Cutch, espinosa is a contract dump and is horrible, and baez isnt even enough to get you a foot long at subway.
What is this nonsense about the Nats going after Sale? Was this ever reported? I didn’t think pitching was a priority for them especially at the expense of completely decimating their farm system (which is what it would take).
It has been reported in a few different places that the Nationals checked in with the White Sox about Sale. To me, it actually makes a lot of sense. I feel that as they are now, they are the one team that can compete with the Cubs.
Getting Sale does a couple of things. It gives them the best 1-2-3-4 rotation in the league in Scherzer, Sale, Strasburg, and Roark. It gives them two very durable aces in Sale and Scherzer, making Strasburg the best #3 in the game, and eliminating some of the pressure on him. It also fits in with their window for contention. Harper is a free agent after 2018, so they need to go all out now. If it fails, they have a ton of pieces they can sell off to restock the farm that was lost from these trades. They could later trade Scherzer, Sale, Harper, and others if they wanted to rebuild again before and instantly restock their farm system. The question is what they would do to fill holes at C and CL, but they have financial resources and an owner that wants to win.
Keep in mind, they were after Cespedes too, which means they were at least likely willing to pay $25 per year for him. That alone would nearly cover the cost of Cutch and Sale financially.
I hate the nats #H84LIFE
Why do you hate the Nats? Is it purely because you root for a rival of theirs?
I’m genuinely asking. They are one of my favorite teams, but they are also fun to watch. Harper, Strasburg, homegrown talent like Zimmerman, Scherzer. Papelbon is different. No one likes him. I’m still upset they traded for him and kicked out Storen. He deserved better.
I can never root for the Nats because I’m a diehard Mets fan…but I think Rizzo is solid and their players play hard; papeldouche excluded. I fly in for a handful of NYM v. WAS games every year and their fans have always been decent. “The Bullpen” pre-game is fun, their stadium is pretty nice, and I don’t worry about getting jumped just because I’m wearing an opposing team’s jersey.
Ha that’s awesome. I love the answer. Rivalries are fun. I started to love them when Zimmerman came up, and then more so once they got their young core including Strasburg and Harper. Strasburg’s debut was amazing. I love watching the younger generation now. I can’t root for the Mets either, but as a fan of baseball and the fact that I loved pitching back in the day, I can’t help but drool over that rotation. I love watching Thor pitch, and the others like Matz and Harvey are awesome too. I really want Wheeler to come back and be successful too. Baseball is just awesome, and the influx of incredible young talent the last few years makes it better.. And only more will join.
It also secretly, yet not so secretly, makes me happy that gone are the days when you could just spend the most money and try to win championships, like the Yankees and even more so the Dodgers recently. I love seeing teams like the Cubs, Mets, Astros (even though I am a diehard Mariners fan as well), the Rays, and a few others win. They due it with smart long term planning and skill rather than sheer amounts of money. Even the Dodgers and Yankees realize that now. I have to say, I love Corey Seager, Urias, and Peterson too. Just a fun time to be a baseball fan.
Joe Ross? Did Jeff mention Joe Ross? As a Pirate fan, that would be pretty darn exciting. I’d rather hold onto Cutch until at least the All-Star Break/Trade Deadline, but if they’re going to trade him, and can get someone like Ross, then perhaps I can get over it quicker. Skeptical, though, if that could actually happen… Lopez seems much likelier.
In the article above, it says Stark mentioned Ross and Lopez so who knows?
I wonder what kind of deal could get done if the Pirates include Watson? Surely the Nats would be interested.
Espinosa will not even be involved in the deal. He has zero valu!
Giolito for Cutch? Straight up?
How about adam jones and zach britton for turner and giolito, now you may all take turns pooping on my dreams
Why don’t the cardinals snatch mccutchen? They have s good farm system and could give up a few players for him.
Probably becuase whatever the nats offer the cards would have to offer more becuase they are in the division.
The Pirates would be a better team with Joe Ross as the #3 starter and Polanco, Marte, Bell in the OF than with whatever bargain basement free agent starter they would sign and Marte, McCutchen, Polanco in the OF.
Pirates would definitely use Robles as trade bait. Mccutchen’s heir apparent is going to start next year in AAA (Austin Meadows), and the Pirates will require a LH SP in their rotation (Steven Brault is the only decent candidate). Whatever this comes to, that’s no doubt their end goal.
Yes! I told everybody on MLB Fans that Cutch would go to the Nats. Anyway, I’m thinking, Lopez, Voth, and Robles.
Makes total sense right? Because surely it’s the outfield they need help in.
$5 says Danny Espinosa is playing for either the Dodgers or Angels in 2017. What do you guys think?
Was just thinking Espinoza, a SoCal boy, might fit with the Dodgers as utility infielder..
Just do Cutch for Turner 2 others.
The whole point of the Nats getting McCuthen is so Turner can play SS. No way Turner is in any deal for him.
If this deal happens, it’ll be interesting to see what the Pirates get. They should get a great haul in return
What you said cardfan2011 is why the Pirates are pursing a trade with McCutchen right now. No way will they over pay for him after the 2018 season to retain him. I have loved watching him play but $20mil + for a 32 year old OF is a lot of risk for a team like the Pirates. I have been saying for years that the Pirates need to operate like the Cards. You develop young players and have them ready to move in to take the spot of an aging veteran and trade the aging veteran for a decent haul to keep the minor league system full and to fill in gaps. at the major league level you do not over pay for aging stars. That is how the Cards have done business for several years and the Pirates are just getting to the point with their minor league system to be able to do business that way. Pirates fans are not used to this business model They are used to the old school method of trading away all of the youth in hopes you can get a few older players to compete right now and the heck with the future. That business model produced 20 years of losing. Hope the Pirates stay the course and become another Cardinal like team for years to come.
Never picking follow up comments again. I thought it was going to be comments to my post but no, its comments to the entire post. I’ve had 90 notifications in the last 10 hours…
amen to that.
HOLY HELL, SAME HERE. WHAT A NIGHTMARE.
By far….the worst unintended consequence of MLBTR changing commenting systems. I made that mistake with the Ces re-signing thread…my e-mail got 100+ msgs in a few hours. Sorry for contributing half a dozen posts to the problem….
If the Rangers do it, they better not overpay and still get money back to offset that contract.
some mixture of Robles. giolito. soto. Voth. Lopez Or Pedro Avila…the Pirates are going to ask for tons.
Not a huge Angels, or White Sox fan, but at his price this guy is a perfect fit.
It has to be frustrating to be a Pirates fan. They are on a path to break the the Cubs record of not winning the World Series. Seriously, will current ownership do what it takes to get over the jump? Like the Royals did a couple years back?
There are 30 teams in MLB, so the average team will win once every 30 years. The Pirates last won 37 years ago, so a little below average, but they have an institutional disadvantage due to being in a small market. They made the playoffs three years in a row and got unlucky and lost a coin-flip twice in a row. You should be thrilled with how Pirates management has created a team of excellent young cheap talent. Maybe next time they are in the playoffs they will get lucky for a change and win it all.
Twenty years of losing was frustrating, but I’m feeling pretty good as a Pirates fan right now in comparison. Not too worried about matching the Cubs streak, seeing as it’s 70 friggin years away. Very very slim chance I’m still alive then. Slimmer chance my brain is still functional enough to comprehend anything more complicated than the need to have my diaper changed.
Yeah, I’m a Mariners and Nationals fan. Those are the only two teams in baseball that have never even appeared in the World Series. Maybe one day, and hopefully the Nationals can do it this year.
Ross and Robles for Cutch.
Then get Jay Bruce for peanuts.
The Cards seem like a perfect fit for the Bucs in a deal for AM. They have pitching depth, even after the Garcia trade, and depth with young talent… but most of all the Cards need a CF and middle of the order hitter and leadership wouldn’t hurt.
Pirates will not trade Cutch to the Cards.
The Mark Madden’s of the world would never let them hear the end of it if Cutch rebounded, even if the return was excellent.
I dont think the Cards have the prospects to get Cutch.
I guess the Pirates dealing McCutchen makes sense. They need to steal the Nats future to get it done. Sad to see him in a different uni though, especially an ugly red one.
Buster Olney speculating that Dodgers may have interest in Cutch. Dodger FO loves to play in threeway deals. Their prospects and surplus SP may well be a factor in helping Pirates, Nats/Marlins/Angels/White Sox find a way to get a deal done. Dodgers’ need for closer, 2B, RH bat all play.
“McCutchen also isn’t particularly cheap. With $14MM coming to him next season and a $14.5MM option for 2018, he’s hardly expensive.”
So he’s not cheap and hardly expensive???
Come on to SD Espinosa.