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Brewers Have Interest In Justin Verlander

By Steve Adams | July 20, 2017 at 1:48pm CDT

The Brewers have interest in Tigers right-hander Justin Verlander, reports Anthony Fenech of the Detroit Free Press (Twitter links). Milwaukee has been linked on multiple occasions to rotation pieces that it can control beyond the 2017 season, though there’s yet to be much of a serious connection to the longtime Detroit ace. Notably, Fenech adds that the Cubs are still monitoring Verlander and further reports that while the Astros have interest, their involvement in talks “has been minimal.”

Milwaukee is currently trailing the division-rival Pirates in today’s game and has seen its lead on the NL Central dwindle to 1.5 games with both the Cubs and Pirates on winning streaks. The Brewers have had a top-heavy rotation for much of the season, and that only became a truer statement when Chase Anderson, their second-best starter in 2017, landed on the disabled list with an oblique strain that is likely to sideline him into the month of August.

The obstacles standing in the way of a Verlander trade (to any club) are notable. Verlander is owed about $67MM through the end of the 2019 season and has a full no-trade clause that allows him to veto any trade scenario with which the Tigers approach him. He’s also in the midst of one of his worst big league seasons, although he’s been sharper over his past three outings, which may at least present scouts with some confidence that he’s rounding into form.

Whether that’s enough of a sample to convince any team — let alone a fairly low-payroll club like the Brewers — to take on a significant chunk of his remaining contract remains to be seen. The Tigers are reportedly willing to include “some” cash in a trade to help enhance the return they’d get, but they’d likely have to pay down a major chunk of the contract in order to both find a taker and receive meaningful prospects in return. The Brewers have a fairly clean slate when it comes to their long-term payroll outlook, with only Ryan Braun and Eric Thames on guaranteed contracts beyond the current season, but they do have quite a few important players up for arbitration raises this winter (including Jimmy Nelson, Chase Anderson, Jonathan Villar, Hernan Perez and Carlos Torres).

While it’s certainly possible that there’s some gamesmanship at play here — it’d behoove the Tigers to play up the interest of two closely competing division rivals, after all — the Brewers have been linked to controllable rotation help frequently enough that it’d almost be a surprise if they didn’t check in on the Verlander market and gauge the asking price. As for the Cubs, they’ve already acquired Jose Quintana from the White Sox, but there have been indications since that time that they’re still on the lookout for pitching help, and for a team with considerable payroll capacity and questions in their long-term rotation, the notion of acquiring Verlander and having some of his $28MM salary in 2018-19 offset undoubtedly holds appeal.

The Astros were said, as of this morning, to still be in the market for Verlander, though there have also been reports that talks between Houston and Oakland regarding Sonny Gray have begun to intensify. The Brewers and Astros have both also been linked to Tigers lefty Justin Wilson, meanwhile, as each team looks to upgrade its bullpen.

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Detroit Tigers Houston Astros Milwaukee Brewers Justin Verlander

Pitching Market Rumors: Ramos, Wilson, Lynn, Reed
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MLBTR Chat Transcript: 7/20/17
View Comments (121)
Post a Comment

121 Comments

  1. bleacherbum

    8 years ago

    Knee jerk move because they are struggling and the Cubs are gaining ground? Don’t think taking on Verlander’s contract makes sense for a club that is still technically rebuilding.

    2
    Reply
    • MILWBrewersFan

      8 years ago

      The only way it makes sense is if the Tigers eat 20MM of his remaining 67MM. Most clubs don’t have the room to take on 40+MM in salary like the Brewers. Also taking on that money would allow the Brewers to give up lesser talent from the farm

      Reply
    • heathz917

      8 years ago

      He’d be a good guy to help mentor their young and incoming pitchers, he can easily help with that rebuild process.

      Reply
  2. todda1

    8 years ago

    I think Verlander is not a Tiger after July 31st.

    1
    Reply
    • halos101

      8 years ago

      It seems tough to move him at this point. Probably going to have to wait until offseason

      Reply
      • ElGayoLoco

        8 years ago

        I can see him as a yankee

        Reply
  3. STLShadows

    8 years ago

    I don’t think the Brewers will stay in first very long, if they lose today they will be 2-5 to start the second half and with the Pirates, Cardinals, and Cubs all within less than 5 games. So is getting rid of some future talent for Verlander worth it?

    1
    Reply
    • tim815

      8 years ago

      Their top four or five relievers are getting far overused. Knebel on track for over 73 innings. Papelbon never went over 70, which he hit once. After a few years of going over 60.

      Reply
      • rayrayner

        8 years ago

        as Goose Gossage: Today’s relievers are babies.

        Reply
  4. ahtigers

    8 years ago

    Not sure what I’d ask for from Milwaukee or Houston

    Reply
    • heathz917

      8 years ago

      I’d want Luis Ortiz for sure if we were willing to eat some cash for a top prospect, guy is going to be a stud. Only 22 years old.

      1
      Reply
      • ThePriceWasRight

        8 years ago

        sure they would part with Lewis Brinson.

        Reply
        • sss847

          8 years ago

          i don’t think mke would do it, but it doesn’t hurt to ask

          Reply
        • heathz917

          8 years ago

          Yeah I think that’s who Avila should shoot for. Tigers need a CF and Brinson can cover all that ground in Comerica Park.

          Reply
        • mikeyst13

          8 years ago

          Not a chance. Brinson is going to be starting in CF in Milwaukee sooner than later. Not going to trade pieces that will help them this year and next year for Verlander. If they make this move they are looking to make a run over the next 2 seasons Brinson is a huge part of that plan.

          5
          Reply
        • TraderRyan9

          8 years ago

          They won’t trade brinson. Ortiz, dimlan, and something else

          Reply
        • RegretfulTigersFan7

          8 years ago

          Ray, Ortiz, Philips for JV and Tigers eat 15 to 20 million of the contract?

          Reply
        • ahtigers

          8 years ago

          I’d take that in a heartbeat

          Reply
      • southi

        8 years ago

        Ortiz is a great pitching prospect for sure. Last night he and Soroka locked into a major duel of minor league talent. Ortiz could be a good basis for a return for Verlander.

        Reply
    • Andrew Farrug

      8 years ago

      Forrest Whitley or Derek Fisher from Houston and maybe Isan Diaz from Milwaukee?

      Reply
      • TraderRyan9

        8 years ago

        Wilson and verlander might be a package deal for houston

        Reply
        • RegretfulTigersFan7

          8 years ago

          Would love to get Tucker or Fisher!

          Reply
  5. MakeATLGreatAgain

    8 years ago

    I don’t see JV accepting a trade to Milwaukee.

    3
    Reply
    • ahtigers

      8 years ago

      Same

      Reply
  6. justinept

    8 years ago

    As a Cubs fan, I don’t want Verlander. If the Cubs keep playing like this and find their way into October, they’ll deploy a rotation of Lester, Quintana, Arrieta, Hendricks. Since no team uses a 5th starter in the playoffs, Verlander would either be left out of the rotation or he’d bump Hendricks. Is that really worth the prospect/cash investment?

    sure, the Cubs still need to find another starter for 2018 since they’ll be losing Arrieta and Lackey, but the Cubs could sign Yu Darvish for the money they’d be paying Verlander, and they’d only lose a single draft pick as opposed to multiple prospects.

    1
    Reply
    • thegreatcerealfamine

      8 years ago

      Look at Lesters and Hendricks performances compared to last year. Let’s see how they do against the Central.

      4
      Reply
      • justinept

        8 years ago

        Look at Lester and Hendricks performances? Can’t the same be said of Verlander? I’d rather take my chances with the two guys already on the roster than take a $70 million roll of the dice that sacrifices multiple prospects.

        2
        Reply
    • tim815

      8 years ago

      All depends on how the trade is worded.

      Reply
    • hawaiiphil

      8 years ago

      good points about 4 man playoff RO, when the cubs lose Arrieta & Lackey that $ will go to Dervish and I agree about the 1 draft pick loss vs the mulitple current prospects. Verlander would do great for the CUBS though.

      Reply
    • Dkaner

      8 years ago

      You don’t know a thing about JV or what he brings to the table. He’s a warrior and has playoff wins under his belt. Sonny Gray and Jose Quintana have zero wins and no experience. Things change when the bright lights are on. Some smart team is going to trade for him and he will come up big for him. He’s an HOF guy!

      1
      Reply
  7. Sign all the Cubans

    8 years ago

    Queue all the Verlander fanboys who expect the Brewers to empty their system for this guy because “he shoulda won the 2016 Cy Young.”

    4
    Reply
    • thegreatcerealfamine

      8 years ago

      I used Que to start a sentence one time and people freaked. I got learn how to spell,I think you meant cue..no that’s what I meant and Sign All the Cubans you used it right. Now that’s out of the way..they may just want Kate in their city.

      2
      Reply
      • TraderRyan9

        8 years ago

        Watched verlanders starts all year. Still throws 100 and has good off speed stuff. Don’t understand why he was getting hit as much as he was early in the season. He’s been really good lately.

        One thing is he isn’t using his change at all this season and he used to use it a lot more, according to fangraphs. Don’t know why.

        He is still really goof and the brewers should feel comfortable taking him.on if deteoit would cover about 25-30 mill of the deal.

        Saying that, brewers would have to give up something like hader, diplan, ray

        Or ortiz, diplan, ray

        Tigers won’t give him up for nothing as hes still good and franchise guy for years. Won’t be giving away for peanuts like they did jd mart

        Reply
        • pdubs2907

          8 years ago

          Brewers aren’t giving up Hader or Brinson for him. Maybe Ray.

          Reply
        • justinept

          8 years ago

          Haven’t watched enough Verlander, but there’s a difference veteeen easy velocity and labored velocity. Most guys can throw 3-4 mph faster than they do. But they’ll stay at 92-93 because it has more movement. It’s possible that Verlander’s 100 mph fastball went from being easy velocity to being labored and that he’s being hurt by it because it’s being thrown on a flat plane.

          Reply
        • stymeedone

          8 years ago

          He does not look labored.

          Reply
        • donniebaseball

          8 years ago

          Most pitchers do not throw slower because “it gives them more movement.” That’s just not true.

          Reply
        • justinept

          8 years ago

          If they need to overthrow to reach their top velocity – which most pitchers do – then yes, they throw slower.

          Reply
      • srechter

        8 years ago

        “I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.”

        2
        Reply
        • TraderRyan9

          8 years ago

          Like I care what a moron like you thinks…hahaha

          Reply
    • GareBear

      8 years ago

      To be fair, if you trade for Verlander you also get Kate Upton which would make the haul much more worth it haha.

      1
      Reply
      • padreforlife

        8 years ago

        She’s overrated

        2
        Reply
        • Michael Birks

          8 years ago

          Dude, have you seen the cat daddy video? That alone is worth a future first round pick

          1
          Reply
      • chesteraarthur

        8 years ago

        This stopped being funny/clever a while ago…

        1
        Reply
        • everlastingdave

          8 years ago

          Dunno if “Hey guys I Iike girls high five” was ever clever, but agreed.

          1
          Reply
    • bobbleheadguru

      8 years ago

      Other than “East Coast Uniform” and fewer “Wins”… name ONE category where Porcello was better than Verlander.

      I know its only Detroit and East Coasters don’t really care about “flyover country”, but is it fair that TWO Tampa Writers left his name off the ballot last year? COMPLETELY OFF. That is why he lost.

      3
      Reply
      • TraderRyan9

        8 years ago

        Rick is overpaid

        Reply
      • justinept

        8 years ago

        It’s irrelevant though. Even if he had won last year, he’d still have the same value this year. GMs are looking st performance, contract, and cost of acquisition. None of them care about an awarded voted on by writers.

        Reply
    • stymeedone

      8 years ago

      You mean bobble head guru

      Reply
  8. the.sophisticant

    8 years ago

    verlander aint no jabroni ….he still legit !

    2
    Reply
  9. skip 2

    8 years ago

    Hahaha

    Reply
  10. pdubs2907

    8 years ago

    This wouldn’t make much sense for the Crew. I’m not buying it. Probably just the Tigers trying to create the image that there’s a market for him.

    Reply
  11. TraderRyan9

    8 years ago

    Diplan
    Ortiz or Hader
    And an OF prospect

    For jv

    Reply
    • davbee

      8 years ago

      Dream on, you’ll get salary relief and fringe prospects, just like you got for Martinez.

      2
      Reply
      • bobbleheadguru

        8 years ago

        Then there will be NO DEAL. Tigers are not an Organ Donor to other teams.

        2
        Reply
        • baumer16

          8 years ago

          It’s always funny to listen to people talk on here like they’re the actual GM and have any idea of what the team is really looking for, “then there will be NO deal,” ahahah. If the Brewers were looking to do a deal like that why wouldn’t they just add a little more and go get Sonny Gray since he’s way cheaper and been way better this year?

          1
          Reply
        • TraderRyan9

          8 years ago

          And verlander was the Cy young winner last year while sonny gray was a piece of dog crap

          Reply
        • bobbleheadguru

          8 years ago

          According to DavBee, they will only get JD Martinez return… So you are saying that Sonny Gray is worth slightly more than than 3 prospects, none in the Top 100? YES or NO?

          1
          Reply
        • baumer16

          8 years ago

          Even Heyman came out and said a week or so ago Tigers can’t expect to get any top of the line guys for Verlander. Granted he’s not the best person to ask but he had Verlander going to the Cubs and them not giving up even one of their top 5 prospects. So Detroit would more than likely have to pay a huge chunk of that contract off to get a high value prospect.

          Reply
        • Stat_head

          8 years ago

          Gray has not been ‘way better’ this year. JV’s stats are distorted by some really hideous outings against Cleveland and an overall uneven year. Unlike Sonny Gray’s 2 post season appearances (both against JV with a loss & ND), JV has 98 post season IP and has been in 2 WS. Rookie squads with no post season experience generally don’t fare well. JV can easily be the veteran leader for a young staff in the post season.

          Reply
        • bobbleheadguru

          8 years ago

          And you said…. Sonny Gray is worth slightly more.

          Reply
        • TraderRyan9

          8 years ago

          Verlander won’t accept tra de to brewers, don’t worry

          Reply
        • chesteraarthur

          8 years ago

          brewers are trying to win in 2017, not 2016.

          Reply
        • Dale's Dead Bug

          8 years ago

          LOL no he was not.

          Reply
        • davbee

          8 years ago

          That’s not what the Diamondbacks say–the Tigers gift wrapped Martinez to them for couch cushion change.

          2
          Reply
      • TraderRyan9

        8 years ago

        Nope. Martinez was a rental. TIgers fans would not accept anything else. The deal woNT be dine unless at least 2 of those guys are involved.

        Tigers better off keeping verlander as he is still a top.pitcher.

        Brewers can dreat on as well if they doNT wanna make a fair deal.

        Reply
        • davbee

          8 years ago

          And the Tigers can keep overpaying an under performing Verlander. There are much better pitching options for the Brewers to go after.

          Reply
      • Stat_head

        8 years ago

        Martinez was gone at the end of the season. No way for the Tigers to extend or re-sign him with Upton’s contract. JV is already baked into their projections going forward. Tigers committed salary also decreases to $138MM next year so they will be under the cap even with arbitration, etc. A JV and/or Wilson trade will be focused on getting high quality prospects to replace Kinsler (2B), JD (RF), and additional pitching. They are willing to pay to get quality prospects.

        Reply
    • bleacherbum

      8 years ago

      Lol okay bro. Go back to playing MLB the show and try fleecing the computer GM’s in franchise mode with that terrible trade proposition.

      3
      Reply
    • pdubs2907

      8 years ago

      DEFINITELY not Hader. Maybe Diplan

      Reply
      • TraderRyan9

        8 years ago

        Have to be ortiz, diplan, and an OF prospect. Otherwise a deal ain’t happening. I know this 100.percent

        Reply
        • Crewfan620

          8 years ago

          lol

          1
          Reply
        • gormanthomasrules

          8 years ago

          Fine with me. Enjoy watching him turn into Matt Cain. Were I Phelps, I offer you Monte Harrison and take on the full contract and nothing more..

          2
          Reply
        • TraderRyan9

          8 years ago

          Ha. Verlander won’t ever matt POS cain. He’s too competitive and prideful to turn to a POS like that guy. I’ll be happy watching verlander finish his career in detroit. And brewers can have fun trying to make.playoffs with a garbage rotation

          Reply
        • Crewfan620

          8 years ago

          Because the Detroit rotation is awesome this year? I don’t understand your thought process that Justin Verlander is the only good pitcher the Brewers could trade for. Not saying you wouldn’t get significant prospect talent, but probably not as good as you think unless you eat the whole contract. If you don’t believe me, just go look at other historical trades for pitchers with huge amounts of money owed on their contracts.

          1
          Reply
        • TraderRyan9

          8 years ago

          Then propose something….but im betting I’d rather have verlander.

          They aren’t itching to get rid of him

          Reply
        • jdgoat

          8 years ago

          Wait even if the Brewers rotation was garbage, how does Verlander make it any less garbage?

          2
          Reply
        • TraderRyan9

          8 years ago

          It’s been better of late and believe it or not detroit is gonna make a run for the central

          Even if they make trades

          Reply
        • Crewfan620

          8 years ago

          And that’s exactly why almost every report on this site says that he probably wont get traded. Interest is just interest. Doesn’t mean they even got to exchanging names. If I were GM, I’m not sure what I would feel comfortable giving up for him. All you can hope for is that Detroit makes a decision that’s not middle of the road. If you trade him, eat the money to get good prospects. Otherwise keep him and try to put together a team to make a run over the next 2 years before his contract is up

          1
          Reply
        • gormanthomasrules

          8 years ago

          I did. Monte Harrison, plus we take on the entire contract. I can’t see you doing a hell of a lot better than that. Maybe we throw in Wily Peralta if you need a starter back.

          2
          Reply
        • gormanthomasrules

          8 years ago

          After the Cubs just emptied out their system, Harrison would probably be a top-5 guy for them at this point. This is certainly a better offer than whatever the Cubs can put forth.

          1
          Reply
        • TraderRyan9

          8 years ago

          Lay off the vodka

          Reply
        • stymeedone

          8 years ago

          With Verlander being the face of the franchise, They can’t afford to trade him without getting a reasonable return. They would lose the butts in the seats, and they can’t afford to not sell tickets.

          Reply
        • jbeerj

          8 years ago

          The Monte Harrison offer is a little insulting. So is expecting 3 of our top 10 prospects. I say Corey Ray, Jorge Lopez and Michael Reed (that’s our #2, 13 & 28) for JV and Wilson, with MIL taking on the full salary.

          Reply
        • JKB 2

          8 years ago

          The Cubs did not empty out their system. Get real.

          Reply
  12. bobbleheadguru

    8 years ago

    JV should not be judged by his age.
    He should be what coaches show kids in terms of a near perfect delivery.
    Few moving parts, elbow is up as he steps forward. He does not have an “inverted w” (look like a scarecrow).
    No reason he cannot pitch until age 40.

    Tigers should simply agree to pitch in $20MM and get the best possible offer with 5 minutes left to the trade deadline. If no acceptable offer… wait until 2 minutes left… still no great deal? HOLD HIM and wait to the offseason.

    Reply
    • El Duderino

      8 years ago

      Just to be clear since you’ve already posted this comment before, do you plan on copy and pasting this in every Verlander rumor?

      1
      Reply
  13. Logan7122

    8 years ago

    The Brewers are not going to win the World Series or even make it close to it. So I see no need to trade there stellar farm system.

    4
    Reply
    • jdgoat

      8 years ago

      All you have to do is get into the postseason in baseball. The best team hardly ever wins. Saying that, I don’t think Verlander is going to tip their scales too drastically so giving up a lot of resources for him is kind of foolish

      Reply
  14. TraderRyan9

    8 years ago

    Too many people value prospects too much.

    Example: lucas giolito top prospect in all if baseball can’t even make it outta AAA ball. It’s hard to be a MLB player.

    2
    Reply
    • bobbleheadguru

      8 years ago

      Which is why I have some respect for Al Avila in getting guys he knows, even if they are lower rated.

      Reply
    • chesteraarthur

      8 years ago

      Is this a serious attempt at an argument? Lucas Giolotio has been bad, but just look at all the young talent in MLB right now that was very recently a “prospect”. I can cherry pick too. Correa, Bryant, Seager, Bellinger, Mookie, etc., etc. “Some prospects don’t work out, so you’re overvaluing them” is a stupid argument and shows your complete lack of baseball acumen.

      Their risks are incorporated into their valuation by teams that are buying/selling them.

      Reply
      • TraderRyan9

        8 years ago

        For every top prospect that makes it I can name 10 that dont. Not a dumb argument at all. Most don become what people think

        1
        Reply
        • pdxbrewcrew

          8 years ago

          Top pitching prospects make it about 50% of the time. Top position prospects make it about 80% of the time. Of course, it depends on what you define as “make it.”

          Reply
    • Priggs89

      8 years ago

      Giolito is 23 years old… Still has a LOT of time left.

      Reply
  15. Luckybrew

    8 years ago

    The Brewers will not give Brinson or Hader for a 34 year old player. They are not ready to seriously compete with L.A. or Washington there is no one player that gets them there so don’t give up the future for a prayer to make the playoffs.

    Reply
    • Logan7122

      8 years ago

      I agree with you. I think they should hang on to there prospects. And get more by trading Braun.

      Reply
  16. fisher40

    8 years ago

    It’s the Brewers playing mind games with the Cubs. No way do the Brewers take on verlanders salary.

    Reply
    • Mikel Grady

      8 years ago

      Since Theo has the greatest baseball mind it won’t work.

      Reply
  17. halos101

    8 years ago

    can’t imagine this happening. Brewers probably don’t want to give up top prospects and that’s the only way the tigers are going to eat a bunch of cash to move him. Brewers also probably don’t have financial resources to take on his salary for less of a haul. Tough to make this work

    Reply
    • mikeyst13

      8 years ago

      The Brewers have plenty of resources to take on his salary if they wanted to. Their total team payroll is only 85 mil and 12.5 comes off the books next year with Garza. The vast majority of their team is still pre-arbitration and making rookie pay scale.

      Reply
      • halos101

        8 years ago

        The could afford him, but i meant that since they are such a low payroll team i don’t think it would be smart to spend on a 34 year old verlander

        Reply
      • pdxbrewcrew

        8 years ago

        The Brewers payroll for this season is only $63 million. The Brewers have plenty of room for all of Verlander’s salary.

        Reply
  18. kgreene3

    8 years ago

    Not going to happen.

    Reply
  19. Phattey

    8 years ago

    Please don’t do this to me Brewers can we just actually tank and get some decent draft picks I don’t want to be stuck being wild card contenders every year

    Reply
    • Crewfan620

      8 years ago

      They already have some solid big league talent and a top 5 minor league system. We might not be as stacked as the White Sox but we have more than enough talent already in the minors to turn into impact (and a few who have superstar potential) type players. No need to tank at this point of the rebuild, we are more on the upswing.

      Reply
  20. Andrew Farrug

    8 years ago

    I think that the only reason the Cubs would be “monitoring” the situation is to if necessary take one out of cashmans playbook and execute a coup to keep JV away from their rivals…Ian Happ would make a nice centerpiece.

    Reply
  21. Bullet

    8 years ago

    Hard to picture Kate Upton in Milwaukee.

    There’s no way he’d approve this trade anyways

    Reply
    • firstbleed

      8 years ago

      Because Detroit is glamours?

      Reply
  22. Logjammer D"Baggagecling

    8 years ago

    Their farm is worse than the cubs even after they traded Eloy Jimenez and Glayber Torres. It would have to be at least 2 players from their 25 man roster plus 3 prospects. If they have anyone good.

    Reply
    • kgreene3

      8 years ago

      Ha, this made me laugh at you.

      1
      Reply
      • Logjammer D"Baggagecling

        8 years ago

        It’s the truth so. It’s okay. I’ll allow it.

        Reply
        • kgreene3

          8 years ago

          Troll.

          1
          Reply
        • Logjammer D"Baggagecling

          8 years ago

          What did I say that makes me a troll. Don’t assume anything it make you look like ass A$$.

          Reply
        • jdgoat

          8 years ago

          The fact that you think a farm that includes Ortiz, brinson, hader, Phillips, plus a lot more is worse than the Cubs makes you a troll

          1
          Reply
        • pdxbrewcrew

          8 years ago

          Don’t post blatantly stupid comments and you won’t be called a troll.

          1
          Reply
    • ahtigers

      8 years ago

      You’re completely wrong f you’re talking about milwaukee that’s a top 5 system in baseball

      Reply
  23. dudeness88

    8 years ago

    The Brewers have interest in Verlander.. but does Verlander have interest in the Brewers?

    Reply
    • Logjammer D"Baggagecling

      8 years ago

      Doubt it they are doing what everyone expected falling flat. Going there wouldn’t benefit verlander at all.

      Reply
      • davbee

        8 years ago

        Because Detroit is doing so much better.

        Reply
  24. ray_derek

    8 years ago

    Why?

    Reply

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