We asked you yesterday to grade the Yu Darvish swap, and today we’ll do the same thing with the other major deadline-day trade: the deal that sent righty Sonny Gray from the Athletics to the Yankees.
Unlike Darvish, the Yanks’ newest hurler can be controlled for an additional two seasons via arbitration. That contract status better lined up with New York’s needs looking forward while also allowing the team to make a significant near-term addition, installing a pitcher who has thrown quite well in 2017. Indeed, by measure of FIP and xFIP, Gray has actually been a bit better than his 3.43 ERA would suggest. While long-term durability questions continue to be aired, the 27-year-old has looked strong since opening the year on the DL.
On the A’s side of the deal, too, health is more a question than is talent. Indeed, two of the three youngsters in the swap — outfielder Dustin Fowler and righty James Kaprielian — are both in the midst of rehabbing very significant injuries. While Jorge Mateo is likely viewed as the headlining piece by Oakland, the club is clearly hoping the other two players will not only return to full health, but will quickly regain their previous trajectory.
So, how do you grade this deal from the perspective of the Yankees? Was it worth giving up this much talent or does Gray stand too great a chance of returning to his injury-riddled, ineffective 2016 form? (Link for app users.)
And how do you feel the A’s did in taking this package instead of others … or rather than holding onto Gray until the fall? (Link for app users.)
A’s took on a lot of risk but if Fowler and Kap are healthy, it’s a great trade for them. Yankees traded from depth while still holding onto main pieces. Potential to be a great trade for both teams.
Fowler will be a starting OF for the A’s out of camp. Great pickup. Mateo was the #19 prospect in baseball in 2016 and he is tearing up AA right now. He will be up at some point next season. Whether that is as a shortstop or a CF is yet to be seen, but he will be in the majors next season. Two major league starters for the next 3-4 years for two years a good #3 starter. That is a good trade all by itself in my opinion.
Kaprelian is icing on the cake if he comes back strong from TJ.
As a Yankees fan I agree with alot of what you are saying. People don’t see the #1 or #2 prospect so they assume it’s a bad trade. Those three guys have some of the highest upside of prospects in the game. Even if one of those guys reaches their ceilings is a decent trade for the A’s.
Mateo could be a 20/40 guy with good defense at CF or SS. Fowler could be a 5 tool .300/25hrs/25-30sb guy. Kap could be a #1-#2 starter.
Obviously there are some red flags with these guys but the upside here is potentially franchise altering.
Gray is a soild #2 though, controlable, and he has ace potential as we have seen his first three seasons and how he has pitched latley this season.
Kaprielian is not going to be a #1 or 2 starter,trust me.More like a #3 or 4. Fowler should be a decent starting outfielder and Mateo could well be an impact player if they can find a position for him. The A’s already have a shortstop they are very high on.
Won’t be able to analyze this deal correctly for another 3-4 years. The A’s took a gamble taking two broken pieces but if Kap and Fowler make strong recoveries then Mr Beane looks like a genius. But I’m not sure he’ll be around to see it come to fruition.
You think BB’s job is in jeopardy?
Why not David Forst?
This is pretty much true of any trade, but it’s possible to assess the decisionmaking process on varying risks and benefits.
A’s took the best offer given to them. There was no way they were holding gray for the offseason with how valuable he has become this month. A for getting 3 high potential guys. A for the yanks getting their missing piece without giving up their 2 top guys in their mind – Torres, Frazier
Injury risks all over the place on this trade. I doubt we’ll know who “won” this trade for quite some time.
This is the rare trade I really like for both sides.
Pitching is hard to find and the Yankees got a guy who can help them now and into the future when it’s unclear how many quality SP’s will actually be available in the near term. A bird in the hand, etc.
Meanwhile, the A’s got 3 guys with the chance to be impact players. Yes, there is injury risk, but every single human has that. I actually prefer pitchers who have already had their TJ over guys who haven’t had theirs YET.
Five years from now, we could easily be talking about how much more the A’s got for Gray than the White Sox got for Quintana.
Meh, handwaving the risk by saying every human has injuries is disingenuous in this case. You’re talking about a pitcher who required surgery and a guy who relies on speed to play cf that sustained one of the worst knee injuries an athlete can. Yeah, lots of pitchers do require TJ, but “getting it out of the way” doesn’t stop you from needing another. And that knee injury is scary.
I don’t dislike this return for the A’s at all. But I don’t think you can just say “all humans have injury risk”. There is a spectrum of injury risk and these guys are higher up there than normal.
You are completely disregarding the injury history of Gray.
03/30/2017 Strained Right Shoulder
03/09/2017 Strained Lat
08/07/2016 Strained Right Forearm
08/06/2016 Sore Right Extensor Muscle
05/21/2016 Strained Right Trapezius
04/04/2016 Food Poisoning
Just keep Sonny away from the Chipotles in NY and he’ll be fine.
on what planet is food poisoning an injury
Lol food poisoning. That’s great.
BTW that “food poisoning” start was really just a bad hangover. I have inside sources at a golf course in the East Bay that can confirm this.
If you can’t list your sources publicly, then they can probably be discredited easily.
Just letting you know that no one believes you
Though Gray won’t be the dominant, shut down starter Yankees fans may expect him to be, Gray should provide great value for the Yankees. Considering they traded two top 100 prospects when their value was at their lowest (injured), that wasn’t much below face value.
Typical trade for the A’s; though they received three pieces that will provide value and an occasional All-Star appearance, they didn’t get a major prospect like Torres or Frazier. Their organization prefers quantity over quality and this is the one criticism I have of this small market club.
Yankees: A-
A’s: B
As a small market club it’s often more important to go for quantity over quality
I agree with PLyons succinct profile of the trade. The A’s took quantity. There is no core player to build around.
Rating the trade as on “F” (for either team) … just plain stupid.
Just like your comment… very insightful…
Agreed. Dumb comment
If you’re eating this trade as an “F” for both teams (or even either of these teams to be honest), then you simply have no clue.
Too soon to tell… Yanks are contending… A’s are looking at future towards building a new stadium so spending is focus on that area and not necessarily on players… It is what it is…
The A’ s always seem to mess everything up, so D.
I don’t like this deal for Oakland at all–you have two guys who’ve had serious injuries, and if Mateo can’t stay at short, he’s a good-but-not-great regular. If Quintana gets the Sox a top-10 prospect, that isn’t enough for Gray.
Extra year of control, more consistent on the mound, more reliable to take the ball every 5 days.
I haven’t heard anyone make an issue as to whether Mateo can stay at SS. The Yanks moved him around to different positions because Didi and Castro were performing so well and then we acquired Torres too.
Kaprelian almost made the big club out of spring training…if hes healthy he should pitch by the end of next year and be no worse than a 3 in the A’s rotation.. Fowler is the big risk because nobody knows how bad the knee is….Mateo should be a September call up.. dont see him as an A’s type player…will probably be moved before next season.
The A’s said that they anticipate that Fowler will start participating in “baseball activities” at their spring training facility in October and in interviews since the trade Fowler has said he expects to be 100% by spring training. He is a very good player and barring setbacks, he should be a starting OF for the A’s coming out of camp.
You don’t actually believe that do you?
While I am much older, I tore my quad tendon (the top of the kneecap instead of the bottom of the kneecap), and I can tell you I highly doubt he will be ready October. You would get suspended 80 games if you believe that story
This guy that thinks that way is usually all over the map anyway.
I admire Cash for reading the market and not bidding against himself. While all 3 are very good prospects I wonder if the A;s misjudged and expected more/better bids. It seems like the Yanks were in the drivers seat for a while.
If Kap and Fowler rehab properly then I think A’s fans will be happy.
Going into 2017 off-season the Yanks will likely have Tanaka/Gray/Severino/Montgomery. They can bring back Sabathia on a 1 year deal as a fall back and look at Darvish in free agency. That should give Adams and Sheffield time to hone their skills at AAA.
A’s picked up potentially 3 top 100 prospects for Gray. Even though Fowler and Kaprelian are injured theyre definitely top 100 talents when healthy.
It’s hard not to like what the Yankees did yesterday. They received 2.5 cheap years of a good, young SP for 3 prospects, none of which were their top prospects at their respective positions and all 3 coming with fairly large question marks (2 injury, 1 attitude).
That being said, I also like Oakland’s return. I like the potential that all 3 prospects have and think they could all be MLB contributors if they’re able to overcome their injuries and poor attitude.
I predicted two 55 FV and a 45 FV return for Gray and he received a 55 and two 50 grade prospects, so it was a reasonably expected return, regardless of what A’s fans were claiming beforehand.
Sorry for the re-post, but this comment was more appropriate here.
Can you point me to an article reguarding the “attitude” problem? I’m not doubting you, just haven’t seen anything reguarding that
Last season Mateo was suspended for alleged attitude issues. It caused him to miss the all star game. We never really were told what happened
He complained to mgmt that he needed to be moved up to AA
What a jerk
I give it a A for the Yankees and a D for the A’s. Considering what the sox got for Q and the farm system of the teams interested in Gray (Yankees, Braves, Astros), was this really the best offer they had? Two prospects with major injuries! Very disappointing return.
And let’s not forget they sent over $1.5 million in international bonus money. That equates to up to $3 million in savings for the Yankees if they are in bonus penalties. ($1.5 million spent on the prospect and 100% luxury tax savings).
Regardless of the rating, the best that Q got back was an A ball prospect that may struggle as he moves up the ladder. The farther from the show, the higher the risk. In spite of the injuries, I prefer the return for Gray. I feel Oakland wouldn’t have made the trade if they weren’t confident of the healthy return of these prospects. They have seen the Medicals, and performed the physicals.
I love my Yankees but I have a feeling we are going to regret this grey trade. The guys decent at best and is constantly injured. He may be another Karl paveono. I never heard of them guys we gave up so no great loss there I’m just worried about the money.
You are a fool how is Gray always hurt? He was hurt 1 year and in 2014 and 2015 he won 14 games both years and was a all star in 2015. Also who is Karl Paveono? It’s Carl Pavano and you call yourself a Yankee fan? Plus the fact you never heard of the prospects the Yankees traded tells me you aren’t really a Yankee fan you mean to tell me you never heard of Jorge Mateo who was in the Yankee system for awhile now. You have no clue what you are talking about and have zero insight on anything, how would you think the Yanks would regret this trade when you have never heard of the 3 prospects? Another thing his name is Sonny Gray not Grey please if you are going to be clueless don’t bother commenting cuz it makes you look stupid and ridiculous just stop please.
I wouldn’t usually engage in this type of nonsense but your incessant nonsensical ramblings struck a nerve with me. First of all wise guy the Yankees need to be concerned with how much money they are committing to the future. I guess you think you are next in line to replace cashman maybe you should retake some economics classes at your local community college or maybe high school if your more comfortable there.
Getting back to the point at hand I don’t really care that the Yankees gave up Fowler. I do think he’s a valuable player but he’s probably not as good as he was considering he’s been released by a few clubs this year alone. Looks like a salary dump by Oakland in my eyes if that’s the best player they got in return. The other guys in the trade r pretty bad too but you never know they could turn out ok. Not that hard to figure out really bud.
When has Fowler ever been released?
I thought it was Michael bourn I made a mistake
Priggs lol this guy has absolutely no clue what he’s talking about just by saying Fowler was released proves my point. Michael Bourn LOL yeah sure I can’t stop laughing.
There can never be another “Karl paveono”. There never was one in the first place.
You do realize that Fowler played a game and got injured vs the Chisox. What kind of fan are you?
I don’t watch every inning of every game
He’s not a real Yankee fan whether you watch or dont watch every inning you would know Fowler got hurt don’t try to make excuses for your incompetence as I suggested earlier you should just stop talking now because the more you talk the more it proves my point that you aren’t a true fan.
I think the Yankees did nice in the trade and the A’s still seem kind of caught in between, Mateo has been at AA, Kap is a college pitcher who is coming back from TJS and Fowler is already been in the majors, the A’s are not going to be competing any time soon and should have focused on getting more assets further away from the majors to coincide with a new stadium.
Fowler never got an at bat,so the Majors comment is misleading.
what does that have to do with his timeline? he wasnt in the majors who was that in the OF who got injured his clone?
Reaching and staying are two different animals.
The Yankees had the players to get Yu as well as Gray.
Man…. when I thought the Cubs made the early move to land Quintana I thought it was great. I always prefer my team to make the first moves to set the market price……… boy did that backfire though this time around. Compared to what the Dodgers gave up for Darvish and what the Yankees gave up for a more comparable pitcher to Quintana in Gray….. the Cubs look like idiots for what they gave up to get Quintana from the Sox. Hell. Looking at what was given up for Gray and Darvish, the Cubs could’ve had BOTH of those guys for what they gave up for Quintana – easily. Hell, for what was given up for these two guys the Cubs still had the prospects to land one of them on top of already having Quintana. So bummed they didn’t make a move for one of these guys and instead went after a friggin reliever (despite having a top 5 bullpen in MLB) and a backup catcher?!?! Really. What the Cubs gave up for Wilson and Avila, could’ve easily been used and would’ve been enough to land Gray or Darvish. Friggin Isaac Paredes has comparable stats and production as some of these guys that headlined the deal for Gray and Darvish…… and Paredes wasn’t even a highly touted, top 30 Cubs prospect. It’s insane to me how some players get over valued and others are ignored.
Oh well……. I still don’t think the Yankees are that great, and the Dodgers are the Dodgers….. or should I say the Dodgers are the Washington Capitals of MLB…… they choke and fold faster than a world record origami champion with bronchitis.
Wow you Cub fans just wanted everyone huh? Wasn’t going to happen the Cubs definitely gave up a lot and overpaid for Quintana oh well that’s your problem funny how all you Cub fans were so happy to get Quintana now you complain because of what other teams gave up for pitchers who are similar unbelievable. I would much rather have Gray over Quintana anyway at least Gray has pitched in the playoffs before and was successful Quintana on the other hand has not.
Cashman would’ve given up the equivalent of what the Cubs gave up for Q. Q has more team control and is a lefty that is preferable playing at Yankee Stadium.
1 for 108 and giving Bartman a ring makes some Cubs fans try to come across like MLB royalty.
The Yankees had what the A’s wanted. The Cubs did not. Its not that difficult of a concept. Front offices don’t just look at the top 100 and pick based on that, they have their own criteria. And the A’s are frequent pickers of players that get underrated.
It all depends on Fowler recovery from injury. If fowler recovers to play CF for the A’s with good defense and solid numbers its going to be a fair trade. For the A’s to win they need Kap to come back from TJS and be a solid 2 or 3 starter. Mateo who knows what he does plays SS or OF. Yanks win a world series while Gray is on the team putting up solid numbers they win no matter how well the other players perform. The ultimate goal is a world series. NY just improved their chances by a large margin.
Win-win. Yankees win now, A’s hope to win later. A’s weren’t going to win anything with Gray short term, nor likely be able to resign him. Yankees pieces weren’t needed in NY and may help A’s win later.
Pre trade A’s fans..what do you mean Gray is oft injured and it’s Frazier or Torres to start or nothing for a TOR pitcher. Post Trade A’s fans..these two injured players we got have so much potential and Gray is an injury waiting to happen and is not an ace. Grade for this trade Yankees B+
A’s B and that’s grading on the curve.
Yeah I know agreed it’s pathetic isn’t it they are so hypocritical, although I have seen comments on other pages and some here that A’s fans don’t like the trade and want Beane to be fired lol its ridiculous.
Yea they were freaking on Monday about Fowler and Kap being injured,but like the character up top I’ve seen where some have said Fowler and Mateo will be in their OF opening day. I gave the trade a B+ because I hated to see Kap traded but the other two were blocked anyway.
Same can be said for Yank fans. We don’t want Gray he is injury prone. After trade its a great trade. Beane took a bigger risk than Cashman because a starter coming back from TJS is a 50/50 chance he will pitch well enough again. So its either trust your GM or hate your GM. Gray’s injuries were way over blown by most fans. I doubt NY will have any remorse on this trade. Flower needs to be the CF that Beane thinks he is for it to work out for the A’s.
Why does Fowler need to be the CF that Beane thinks he is for it to work out for the A’s?
Will it not work out for them if Mateo turns into an all star CF’er? What about if Kap comes back and turns into a legit ace? What if those 2 become big league regulars that put up 3+ WAR seasons on a consistent basis? Any one of those outcomes would “work out for the A’s” and be more beneficial than having Gray over the next 2.5 years. And those don’t even factor in Fowler at all…
Arc you are wrong I said as soon as the trade was done that I hope it works for both teams and hopefully the A’s luck turns around and be competitive again and that Beane eventually gets his championship he has been longing for. I can’t speak for other Yankee fans but that’s not me I wouldn’t have bashed Gray if we had not gotten him, I never understood how people labeled him injury prone when he was only hurt for 1 year and had 14 wins in 2014 and 2015 and a all star in 2015.
It’s human nature to rationalize with emotions after the fact. It would have been a similar story if the Yankees gave up Torres. 20% of fans are going to do this no matter the team they like.
Yankeeman, don’t be a hypocrite. You were one of the people saying Gray was “injury prone” in other posts and topics. You were also downplaying how much he’d cost in prospects because he was “injury prone.” Now that the Yankees got him you’re out sporting his jersey. You’re a reason people don’t like the Yankees.
Cereal at least has always had a realistic view of Gray, his ability, and what he’d cost.
Thanks your dudeness. Where’s justanotherfan and billysballz..examples in an A’s fan who wanted the moon and a Yankee fan that hated giving up any top ten prospect.
Anyone can judge a trade after you see how each player plays with their new team. Judging the trade without hindsight is the only fair way to do it. I give the Yankees an A- for giving up the riskiest prospects to get Gray instead of Torres/Frazier or even Sheffield/Adams. I give the A’s a B because I think their centerpiece (Mateo) was a little light, but their secondary pieces were strong – they have a solid ceiling if they recover. I would have expected a slightly better centerpiece and three worse prospects than Fowler and Kap combined.
Good trade for both teams, but very strong performance by Cashman to keep his top guys. A+ to Cashman and C to Beane.
Is Fowler earning service time right now because he was injured while on the Major League Roster? I’m not sure how that works when a player gets injured, it always seems that they continue to accrue service time while they are injured. Anyone know the specifics
As an A’s fan, would love if he only has 1 day of service time when he starts next year
Yes, since his injury happened while he was on the major league 25-man roster, he is accruing service time as a major league player while on the disabled list (he is currently on the 60-man DL, but it doesn’t matter, he still gets the service time no matter which DL he was placed on).
Last year Greg Bird gained a whole year of service time while being on the DL. Teams are not allowed to option or assign injured players off their 25-man roster and then place them on the minor league DL. So in Bird’s case, he could not be optioned, so he was on the major league DL all year (started the year on the 15-day DL and then later moved to the 60-day DL).
A’s Billy Beane is a tremendous VP but he is also a minority owner… Whether Beane has absolute control over A’s on field matters remains to be seen. Billy reports to billionaire Gap’s owner John Fisher. They say Fisher is more focus on the new stadium than anything else at this point…So A’s fan need to keep being patient… I think the future looks better than the present is…
I guess A’s fans forgot when Billy traded Ben Zobrist to the Royals for Sean Manaea who is now Oakland’s best pitcher that’s a great trade for the A’s some people are just clueless I bet half of A’s fans dont even remember getting Manaea from the Royals in that trade.
I like it for the A’s a bit more than I do for the Yankees.
It was the right move for NYY to make, at this time, however Gray really worries me. First of all, he’s listed at 5’10”. Yes, small stature doesn’t make him risky alone (Pedro Martinez), but the fact that all of his injuries (except the food poisoning) were to his right side, or his throwing arm. I just am worried that he won’t hold up very long, like 1-2 years down the line.
Fowler, Kap and Mateo is a very good deal for the A’s. All of which are rather close to the majors and fit well in the A’s plan and timeline.
I rated it A for Oakland, B for New York- either way, though, it was a necessary deal.
Let’s see if Gray is a stud or blows it playing in pinstripes.
Food poisoning is an injury?