The Pirates have outrighted right-hander Drew Hutchison from the 40-man roster, as John Dreker of Pirates Prospects first reported. Hutchison has already cleared waivers.
Hutchison earned $2.3MM this year and would be eligible for arbitration for two more campaigns. But he never made it up to the majors in 2017 and clearly was destined for a non-tender. Hutchison is now slated to qualify as a minor-league free agent at the end of the year, as Dreker notes.
Though it was largely inevitable — in substance, if not in timing or process — the move isn’t likely to be terribly well-received by Pirates fans. Many of the Pittsburgh faithful have already been incensed by the team’s decision to allow reliever Juan Nicasio to depart via outright waivers, a move that ultimately saw him end up closing games for the division-rival Cardinals as they seek to make a postseason run.
Hutchison has been a target of some ire ever since he was acquired in a controversial deal at last year’s trade deadline. That late-breaking swap sent two prospects — Harold Ramirez and Reese McGuire — to the Blue Jays along with the expensive contract of Francisco Liriano. While the Bucs insisted they had real interest in adding Hutchison, there was clearly a financial motivation at play as well.
It doesn’t help, of course, that Hutchison has not contributed since arriving in Pittsburgh. Once a highly regarded young starter, he faltered in Toronto evidently hasn’t shown enough since finding his way to an organization oft lauded for its pitching turnarounds. Hutchison appeared briefly in the majors last year but hasn’t appeared for the Pirates in 2017, despite occupying a 40-man spot and earning his arb salary all year long. He does own a 3.56 ERA with 7.0 K/9 and 3.2 BB/9 through 159 1/3 Triple-A frames, but clearly the Bucs were not confident that he’d carry that into the majors.
Man, that trade was the DEFINITION of an L for Pittsburgh.
Not when your dumping Liriano’s salary. Neither prospect are going to amount to much if anything. It may be an L for Pittsburgh but not a W for Toronto.
Ummm no. Pittsburgh has nothing to show for the trade so definitely a W for Toronto. Besides, I fail to see how Toronto doesn’t get the W if Pittsburgh gets an L.
Yea nothing except having the money to resign Nova. Something that would not have happened if they had Liriano on the roster. If Ramirez and McGwire don’t turn into anything nothing was gained by the Jays and the Pirates got a much better pitcher with that money in Nova.
Nova isn’t much better
They also used it to resign Freese so yeah I’d call it a wash at worst.
Nova is significantly better lol
Not really. Niova has been a league average pitcher this year and pittsburgh had to give him years. Liriano, while slightly below average, was only on a one year deal
Liriano threw two months of 2.92 ERA ball with the Jays and then won the wild card game. This year he faltered but was turned into teoscar Hernandez. You can’t define it as anything other than a win for Toronto. It might’ve been more of a lateral move for Pittsburgh, simply because the prospects had value at the time and they turned it into nothing.
For a small market club that has to watch its pennies, they needed to clear space for Nova whom they preferred. Why then can’t aa trade be considered a win-win?
Those Pittsburgh prospects may still turn out to be something, especially McGuire. He has a chance to play in the Majors for a while. He needs more minor league development. Ramirez will be a fringe major leaguer if he makes it. If Searage could have turned around Hutch, the pirates would have looked like stars. Liriano is good every other year, look at his war over his career, up and down with regularity. Next year he’ll be great. This trade was a big win for the Jays longterm, and for a few months the Jays got a fairly good pitcher.
The bigger picture look at it is that Shaprio/Atkins don’t appear to know how to win, they only know how to build a farm system. At the time the Jays needed Gillick type moves not building the farm system moves.
Maguire’s ceiling in the majors is Jeff Mathis. Ramirez ceiling is Moonlight Graham.
I don’t agree with that. Mcguires bat isn’t that bad, and even if it was, his defense will make him a quality backup anyways.
And Toronto got Hernandez for Liriano this year who is almost major league ready. How is it not a W for Toronto when Pittsburgh ends up with nothing?
Just as an overall explanation for my POV:
:Looking at the trade now:
Pittsburgh acquires: Drew Hutchison (0 ML-IP in 2017) and salary relief
Toronto Acquires: Harold Ramirez, Reese McGuire and Teoscar Hernandez
Speaking in theoretical terms, if Pittsburgh didn’t make that trade, they’d be in a better place than they are now under the assumption that they would have traded Liriano at the deadline.
-Harold Ramirez is 23 next year and while he wasn’t great with the bat so far in 2017, keep in mind he’s still young and at the very least looks like a solid 4th OF with the ceiling of a starter (not an all-star, but a league average starter who can hit for high average, and put forth solid albeit unspectacular numbers in the power and speed department.
-Reese McGuire has put up an ,859 OPS and was a consensus Top 100 prospect as recently as pre-2016- there’s a legitimate chance for a legitimate future for him.
– Teoscar’s ceiling is sky high- Great on base numbers, great power/speed combo- success in the majors- quite frankly shocked he was traded for Liriano, and left unprotected and passed over in the 2015 Rule V (I know he was blocked but still, he’s a stud). Still 24 years old as well.
In essence, Pittsburgh traded that for Hutchison who has posted a 3,56 ERA in AAA for the cost of 2.3 million.
In response to the Nova argument, Nova cost significantly less, $7.667 m in 2017 compared to $13+m for Liriano, so if we’re taking that into account, the Daniel Hudson contract was afforded by that trade as well,
By this logic one year later
From the perspective of the Pirates:
Acquire: Daniel Hudson (-0,1 WAR BR), Ivan Nova (1.2 WAR BR) and Drew Hutchison (-0,1 WAR at the end of 2016 and spent all of 2017 in AAA) in exchange for Teoscar Hernandez, Reese McGuire and Harold Ramirez
*****It should also be noted that Hernandez has been worth 0,2 WAR in his brief time with the Jays according to BR******
So, Pirates fans- when you look at the deal like this, do you still take it?
Personally, judging it for myself, I wouldn’t. Yes, Ivan Nova has been a solid MR starter, but McGuire and Hernandez represent possible, maybe even likely, every day players, and Ramirez seems like a very 2nd division starter/platoon guy.
So there’s the logic behind the comment, if your opinion differs, that’s all good, but I just feel more comfortable when I show where my head was at upon making the comment,
Well done.
If Houston doesn’t miss out on Britton and bizarrely overpay for Liriano (also cleared out Aoki) the math might not look quite as good for Toronto.
Liriano and his 1.2 inning outings that wrecked the bullpen were as responsible for Toronto’s failure in 2017 as anyone.
The Pirates would make that deal again. Most scouts (check Longenhagen’s ranking at FG) see little from McGuire or Ramirez at this point. Likely backup and likely “No MLB” ratings, respectively.
The team that regrets a Liriano transaction the most right now is probably Houston. He’s a $13 million LOOGY at this point.
Agreed, good analysis all around except that many say McGurie and Ramirez look like they are going no where. As a former MLB Bird Dog scout, I like McGuire a lot, I think he has a chance to play in the Majors, not a great player but a piece. Ramirez will likely be a 4A, triple AAA player with some call-ups to the big leagues.
At the time the Jays were looking to upgrade their overall minor league system and this was the best they could get without giving up anything they really liked[Hutchinson]. Longterm this deal was great for the Jays.
Give it up with the scout thing Jimmie Boy, nobody believes that line anymore!
Liriano was a key part of the Jays’ 2016 run. He was then traded for well-regarded prospect Teoscar Hernandez, who looks like he’ll be a regular next year. Seems like a clear win for Toronto.
Pirates are back to being a non-event. Missed their tiny window by never going all in and wasting time trying “turn pitchers around” instead of signing guys who are actually good.
Win for Toronto except that Toronto basically bought the Pirates going no where prospects for taking Liriano’s contract. Then the Jays taded Liriano and bought Nori Aoki’s contract and probably paid a good amount of Liriano’s contract to acquire Hernandez from the Astros. So the Jays bought twice, to get the 2 pirates going no where prospects and then bought Hernandez. who looks like a keeper, a near ready for the majors player.
It is too bad for Hutch. When he first came up for the Jays he could be lights out, a dominating starter, but then he lost it and never got it back. Wonder what happened? I enjoyed watching him pitch when he was on, early in his Blue Jays career.
I agree. Personally thought he was going to be a stud.
The big mistake here is the Neil Huntington never actually had Hutching son up in the majors even as a reliever to attempt to gain value for him having him stay in the minors and then releasing him is a clear waste of a potential trade chip near Huntington has proven to be a poor general manager over the last two years not taking advantage of our opportunityin Pittsburgh to complete dying poor players and wasting what little talent he has the list goes on Keon Broxton just another example
“Though it was largely inevitable — in substance, if not in timing or process — the move isn’t likely to be terribly well-received by Pirates fans.”
I can’t think of a single move in the last ten years that the “fans” have actually liked. Not one.
AJ Burnett and Russel Martin? That was Huntingdon dumpster diving in the Yankees trash, they said.
They are mad when they get guys like Happ and then mad when they let them go.
Scores of rentals that contributed to playoff (and 98 win) teams like Byrd, Morneau, Ramirez, Soria, etc. are ignored.
Still my favorite, trading Melancon for Rivero was “proof (PROOF) that they don’t want to win.”
The return in the Liriano trade was getting rid of Liriano and not letting him continue to single handedly lose games and wreck the bullpen while being paid more than any other player on the team. It’s fine.
I think all Pirate fans would agree that trading away your fan card would be agreeable. Pirates fans are anything but elitist, know it all snobs. You are our red headed stepchild.
You are right. They are uninformed, know nothing lemming parrots and IC swilling, pitchfork wielding ignoramuses, mostly. You and the rest of Madden’s minions badmouthed every single move on the way to 98 wins.
Every one of them.
If I’m “elitist” for actually gathering info and context before forming my opinion, so be it.
Don’t let Madden get to you. He has chosen to play the “heel.” He himself has said several times that you “don’t listen to my show to find out about sports.” He’s a contrarian. In May, “Yo, Cutch suuuucks.” Now, he thinks that they should extend him.
He knows a lot about hockey and soccer. Baseball? Not so much.
Damn the dreaded double post!
No, I understand what Madden is doing. He’s a Stern clone doing shock sports talk AND, more importantly, he works for Clear Channel while the Fan is CBS, so he and his company have a vested interest in trashing the Pirates at every step.
The sad part is, you are right, he’s actually a very good hockey analyst, but the shock jock wannabe in him still needs a whipping boy and he realizes the Russian speaking Malkin won’t be a very frequent guest for him so he trashes Malkin for years on end (“Geno Nation” etc.) and, thus, ruins his credibility as a hockey analyst.
Listen, if people want to hate Nutting, NH, Hurdle or even the Parrot, more power to them, but I’d at least like them to have some facts when they do it. I’ve just never seen sports media operate as they do with the Pirates here. It’s so odd.
FWJBT, could not agree more. The 20 years of losing made the Pgh media quite lazy in their baseball analysis. Even the formerly credible John Perroto, who Madden has on weekly, is so blinded by the failed personal/business deal he had with Nutting that he can no longer be taken seriously.
Hmmm. I don’t live in Pittsburgh so I personally have never listened to Maddon. I also could offer you some informed opinions but that’s not what I take issue with your snivel. I hate that you lump all Pirate fans into the same uninformed category. It’s no different in any other city.
Just stop bashing the fans. Spend some time near Baltimore if you want to find some ignorant fans.
Pirate fans have plenty of reasons to be irrational these days. If the Nicasio debacle doesn’t qualify for that in your mind, you are a lost cause.
To make comments like “all Pirates fans thought all these trades were bad” is complete bs. Every fan base has bad apples.
Truthfully, I’m not sure how someone can consider themselves a fan of a team and hate all fans of that team. I guess that is what makes me believe you are not actually a fan.
The big picture here is simple: the economics of MLB is difficult to digest as a pirate fan. I give people a pass on opinions when it is obvious they are frustrated about money.
Lighten up on Pirate fans. It’s not easy.
As a Pirate fan I loved getting Burnett, Martin, Freese, Nicasio, Melancon, Rivero, Hanrahan, Liriano, Kang. I also loved the McLouth trade. Not to even mention the extensions of McCutchen and Marte. I liked all these moves when they were made and I still think they were all good moves today.
Another note, Huntington got a lot of credit for the Pirates run of success, however, most of that was done by Hurdle and Searage (and Benedict, when he was there). Huntington is not, nor has he ever really been a good GM at least trade-wise.
Following the Melancon acquisition I see three clear “W”s in terms of player trades (trades which both teams acquire players, excluding waiver claims or cas deals.
– Getting Rivero for Melancon
– Getting Nova for Tarpley and Polo
– Getting S-Rod for Buddy Borden
Other than that, every trade was either a wash for a failure.
And this is exactly what guys like forwhomjoshbelltolls do not understand completely. NH was just a lucky passenger. He keeps his job just because he is a great corporative worker, who never ask questions and agrees with everything his boss says.
– An awful rebuilding.
– Jose Bautista trade.
– Hiring John goddamn Russell. Put all those guys from 2011-17 into his leadership and you got a team with 90+ losses every single year.
– Bad drafts. How many stars have we raised? Cole, Bell, Taillon maybe? That’s it?
– Passiveness at the trade deadline…. Remember his iconic “The best move was no move at all”? It happened in 2014.
– Desmantling the club, who just won 98 games. Throwing out a white flag in November, proclaiming “Bridge year” (to abyss?) in February, announcing “financial flexibility” plans on August 2, 2016 in the middle of wild card run.
He is a failure, but it’s never his fault. Suddenly it’s a fault of players or coaches or fans or even MLB itself. It’s always payroll, a small market, whatever. The best thing NH did in his 10 years in Pittsburgh – excuses. And boy he did them well since days one.
For those, who are still consider NH as a good GM, I have just two words – Cleveland Indians. Keep dreaming about bright future that possibly will never come. Keep believing into young core full of yet unproven potential and shown mediocrity. Of course, I would be happy to be wrong, but most certantly I’m not wrong. His tactical genius will ruin these young careers, like he did it before.
“An awful rebuilding”- NH took over a team that had virtually ZERO assets at the MLB or minor league level and built a top ranked farm system and made the MLB playoffs in 5 years. You misspelled AMAZING.
“– Jose Bautista trade.” The one thing I’ve given yinzers credit for over the years is (for the most part) not rewriting history on Jose Bautista. NO ONE cared when he left town, they were happy to drive him to the airport. No, they were accused of giving him too many chances and “being in love with their prospect.”
“– Hiring John goddamn Russell.” Russell was awful and that’s why he was hired. They were tanking for Strasburg and Harper, but the Nats tanked better.
– “Bad drafts.” This has become the en vogue way to trash NH in town lately. Twisting the draft record out of context. Pedro was a mental midget and Taillon has had a ton of injuries/cancer or the record would look very different. The only two questionable high picks NH made in his time here were Tony Sanchez (who did not pan out) and Cole Tucker (who seemed like a reach but is now a top 100 prospect).
“Passiveness at the trade deadline”- like when he didn’t trade Starling Marte’s career for two months of Hunter Pence like everyone in town wanted? Or when he didn’t trade a package involving Taillon for two months of David Price like everyone in town wanted?
(Notice that he picks 2014, and not 2013 or 2015 when they added 3-5 players each to those teams at the deadlines. So even when NH does what they claim to want, they just ignore it and pretend he didn’t.)
“– Desmantling the club” Let’s see….who did they “desmantle”? AJ retired. Pedro SUCKED. They traded Neil Walker because they had Harrison at 2nd and Kang at 3rd and Neil was in his walk year.
“For those, who are still consider NH as a good GM, I have just two words – Cleveland Indians.”
So, anything less than building (literally) the best small market team EVER (in baseball history) assembled means he’s not “good”?
K. Seems fair and logical.
I think you neglected a few:
– Happ for Adrian Sampson
– Tarpley & Brault for Travis Snider
– Chris Stewart for Kyle Haynes
– Jeanmar Gomez for Quincy Latimore
– Melancon, Pimentel, Ivan Dejesus & Jerry Sands for Hanrahan and Brock Holt
– Vin Mazzaro for Luis Rico
– A.J. Burnett for Exicardo Cayones & Diego Moreno
– Derrek Lee for Aaron Baker
– Josh Harrison, Kevin Hart & Jose Ascanio for Gorzelanny & Grabow
– Hanrahan & Milledge for Sean Burnett & Nyjer Morgan
– Charlie Morton, Jeff Locke & Gorkys Hernandez for McLouth
Not saying he’s anything special as a GM by any means and you can absolutely argue he should have gotten more in several of these deals, but these all turned into wins at varying levels of impact for the Pirates. I don’t think he’s nearly the problem that the Pittsburgh media wants to portray him as.
Good move. I can’t wait to read about when they put McCutchen and Cole on waivers.
For the Pirates it’s all about the $$, they have no desire to win championships!!!
The Steelers n Penguins goals are Super Bowls n Stanley Cups !!!!
That is the difference in the organizations !!!
at least we had that moment when the bucs were at .500 and playing well. The sunshine is gone. the clouds have arrived. Other than ’88, they’ve had 6 winning seasons since 89.
on the other hand, who knew jung ho is an drunk driving sex addict? who knew marte would be on roids? who knew cervelli and polonco would be the glass brothers?
Cole underperformed. that’s a fact.
we’ve been through this so many times. and when people say ” ahhh you yinzers blah blah blah’
damn right we get pissed. when you watch the Steelers and pens WIN or have winning seasons, you want the bucs to share the glory.
we were told last year was a “bridge season” well 2017 is on the other side right, and where the hell are they?
mudville
lets see, alot of people speak about the liriano deal allowing hudson , freeze and nova being signed due to freed money and really thats not true given other freed up money and if you believe the reported budget estimates for the team at the time.
the exception is nova, if the kept liriano the team probably wouldnt have aquired him
To “forwhomjoshbelltolls”, aka Bob Nuthing, and the rest of the hired hands who continue to print the company line on the owner’s propaganda web sight loosely referred to as “Trade Rumors” (all expenses paid by team owners across the league with exclusive rights to edit/delete fan comments that are too close to the truth… I say, to all you butt sniffers who drank too much koolaid…
who cares about the misdirecting, irrelevant, garbage you keep tying to spin?
Have you looked at the standings lately?
The Reds are 1 game away from sweeping us.
We’ve a real good chance of winning sole possession of last place in the worst division in the NL.
Cold hard facts.
The rest of your garbage analyses is useful as garden fertilizer at best.
Vini, vidi, vomit…
We came, we saw, you make us pewk!!!
Speaking of sweeps, IMHO, we need a clean sweep of Pirate ownership and management. Bob, you’re possibly the most disliked, distrusted, and disingenuous man in the Pirate Nation. Pirate fans abound nationwide as does modern technology, satellite broadcasting, and a multitude of sports networks so there’s no such thing as a small market any longer… just greedy owners who value their own miserly profits above giving the players and fans a fighting chance at a championship. The Pirates have been World Series Champions before you took ownership and they won it when it really was a true small franchise in a small market. So take some friendly advice – sell the team to someone worthy of the Pirates and their fans.
Final word…
True, Basball is a business, but it’s MUCH more than that.
It’s a sport – implying competition… giving ones very best to win honorably.
It’s a passion – the outpouring of one’s heart and soul into every aspect of the game… and that should be in a double measure for any and all owners.
It’s a family – the 1979 Pirates had it right… players and fans nationwide giving their all for one another. This fan bleeds Pirate blood… and I’m bleeding a lot this year.
It’s more than just a business, Bob.
We’re now just 3 games ahead of last place Cincinatti who just won 2 in a row from us and may finish the sweep today. In mid August we had a 9.5 game lead over the Reds.
We’ve lost 9 of our last 10 games.
We’re 14.5 games out of first place in the weakest division in the NL this year and have a high probability of finishing in last place in that same division.
Consider the height from which we’ve fallen, Bob…
Consider the destruction you’ve implemented to a team that’s played in 17 NLCS and won 9 of them…
a team that’s won 5 World Series Championships.
Sell the Pirates, Bob.
Sell to someone an honorable owner who wants to win, not just increase his personal coffers at the expense of the team, the players, and the fans.