The Cardinals are known to be looking for a significant bat to insert into the middle of their lineup this offseason, but FanRag’s Jon Heyman writes that they’re also exploring various means of landing a top-notch starter as well. President of baseball operations John Mozeliak met with agents Joel Wolfe and Adam Katz of the Wasserman agency last night, per Heyman. Wasserman represents slugger Giancarlo Stanton (another reported Cardinals target), but Yu Darvish is the agency’s top free agent this winter, and Heyman reports that the meeting between the two sides was about pitching.
It’s not clear how much of a focus Darvish was in their meeting, of course. Wasserman has a large portfolio of clients, and the Cardinals also plan to use the GM Meetings to discuss bullpen upgrades, writes Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post Dispatch. Wasserman represents both Brandon Morrow and Addison Reed, for instance (as can be seen in MLBTR’s Agency Database), both of whom stand out as on-paper targets for the Cardinals.
Heyman writes that St. Louis could well emerge as a serious player for either Darvish or fellow righty Jake Arrieta, but the team’s front office prefers to explore the trade market before aggressively diving into the free-agent waters. Of course, there won’t exactly be an abundance of top-level arms available on the market. There aren’t many (if any) available trade candidates that could pitch at the front of a contender’s rotation. Chris Archer is an oft-speculated candidate, but there’s never been any real indication that the Rays are open to moving him and Heyman suggests Tampa Bay has no interest in doing so at this time. (With four years at a total of $33.75MM remaining on his deal, that’s hardly a surprise.)
With the Cardinals looking to make a splash both on the offensive side of the spectrum and potentially in the rotation, there are any number of routes the team can pursue. If the lack of available arms causes the club to circle back to free-agent rotation options, Mozeliak and his staff could look to use a sizable crop of young outfielders and young-but-inexperienced starters to then acquire a bat (e.g. Stanton, Jose Abreu) on the trade market. Magneuris Sierra, Harrison Bader, Randal Grichuk and Stephen Piscotty all figure to have varying levels of appeal to other teams, as would young righties Alex Reyes, Jack Flaherty and Luke Weaver (though Weaver’s strong 2017 performance may take him off the table).
Alternatively, St. Louis could utilize that stockpile of young talent to pry a less obvious rotation piece away from another club and devote some of its available resources to a free agent such as J.D. Martinez or Eric Hosmer.
The Cardinals, it seems, are largely focused on making a significant addition or two, but it’s common for clubs to use this time of year to explore many different paths as they look to construct a contending roster. The Cardinals’ $1 billion television contract is about to start, which could make it easier for the team to stomach the addition of a large contract (via free agency or trade), and the aforementioned group of young talents only represents a portion of the names they could utilize to pique the interest of other clubs. Given the myriad decisions with which they’re faced, the Cards figure to be one of the most influential teams in determining the overall landscape of the 2017-18 offseason for all 30 MLB clubs.
Cardinals MUST accomplish something at the GM meetings. They have a lot of work to do to bolster the team, and fans will be acrimonious if they come away empty.
Agreed. They need to jump ahead and get these big deals done while nobody is jumping into them.
There isn’t usually a lot that happens at the GM meetings as opposed to the winter meetings.
Facts
in my opinion the Cardinals most often get it right, but letting Matt Holiday walk and then trading Matt Adams without replacing the pop that either of them brought was a mistake….
I do think that the Cards will be able to acquire either Abreu, JD Martinez or Giancarlo Stanton this offseason.
You are very much right about holiday and Adams and they have Adams up for next to nothing. I think they are capable
Of acquiring them if they wanted to but are they really worth it? They need pitching both in the rotation and in the bullpen. And a power source in the line up. But is this year the year to go after a bat?
I think Stanton is a great talent but he would handcuff us for a long time. Does he even want to play here? I say spread the music net around…. Bat, Bullpen, and a 3rd baseman couldn’t hurt. Go Cards!!
Sorry…. Lol, spread the money around.
We’ll wish for it anyway!!! Mozeliak always makes a lot of noise. Maybe this year he won’t mess it up.
I would rather take a losing 2018 with Weaver, Reyes and Flaherty taking up 3 spots in the rotation with Martinez and Wainright, than I’d like to see them waste money on either Darvish, Arietta or any of the possible tradeable pitchers that are signed for too much money.
Get a bat. Get a big bat. Maybe get two! Play the kids.
I agree Dave. Cards have enough pitching. Literally have 5 guys for the 5th spot ready now. Weaver, Flaherty, Gant, Gomber, Reyes with 5 more in AA and on the come. Save the $$ on any of those FA starters and get the bat and get multiple late inning relievers.
Yeah, I don’t want to touch the young starters. Get Stanton or Martinez, Spend money/OFers on bullpen arms. As many as you can. I actually think it would be a good idea to sign RA Dickey or someone comparable to a one year deal as an innings-eater for the 5th spot.
Best for STL to trade Piscotty/Grichuk and a Rule 5 eligible player they’re not likely to keep for a SP this week. Big bat market will take a while to develop.
What team is really that interested in a very disappointing Grichuk/Piscotty?…..The Dodgers Chris Taylor was acquired via the scrap heap and could run circles around either Grichuk or Piscotty…
I have no idea why the Cards felt that Piscotty had earned a long term guranteed contract….
Piscotty’s long term guaranteed contract was buying out the arbitration years he was likely going to make anyway. Until 2017, including his previous years minor league performances, the contract he signed should be considered as a great value to the cards.
Keep in mind he had a tough family situation come up this year. There is no reason to think he will not bounce back next year.
This plug is all for nothing if Stanton is acquired.
@guinnesspelican……I hope that you are right about Piscotty because I hate seeing C.Martinez throw 7-8 innings with 1-2 runs allowed and always get a “no descision”……with a big bat and an elite late inning reliever I think the Cards could be as good as anyone in the National league next year except maybe the Dodgers….
P.S….I like the Cards getting JD Martinez over Stanton, so they do not have to raid their farm for their “big bat”, but I think Martinez’s market will be PRETTY HOT since he has no draft pick attached and doesnt require traded prospects…
I think the Cards need 2 big bats and there isn’t a bigger one in the game than Stanton’s.
I think Martinez is solid, and you are probably correct about his market, but (rumored to be) 200 mil and 6-7 years solid? That might be a bit risky. I would rather overpay for Stanton.
@guinnesspelican……If the Cardinals get the big bat they need…. they are GOING TO OVERPAY SOMEONE, that much is a virtual fact…….
But why “overpay” in BOTH prospects AND CASH?……if you acquire Stanton your team assumes nearly 300 million in debt AND gives up quality prospects but with JD Martinez you ONLY overpay with CASH…..and this will leave money in the till for the late inning reliever the Cards need…
I don’t think we are far off on our debate. I think the prospects and cash are worth getting the better player both offensively and defensively. It’s hard to make a case strictly on war but there is no close comparison in that category. There is also the 3 year age difference in the two.
Cardinals have the money to get Stanton or Martinez, another decent bat and a closer. Do they do it? History tells me no.
If the signings help us back into the postseason then I don’t care who they sign. Weaver has his spot locked up, and one of he other young guy’s will take over next season when Waino’s contract expires.
Hope the Cards don’t pull a Toronto move like last year with Kendry Morales
@chino31……I watch a lot of West Coast MLB and seeing Kendrys Morales clog the basepaths for the Seattle Mariners a couple of years ago was not a pretty sight……if Kendrys manages to get on first base you literally need a home run to score him he is so slow…
I have to agree as well. Darvish and Arrieta have both displayed a concerning level of inconsistency over the past 2 years that would make me think long and hard before even making a lowball offer to either of them. Milwaukee seems poised to land one of them, and that’s fine if they wanna overpay. I just don’t see Darvish or Arrieta delivering anywhere near the value one would expect for the money and years they’re likely to get.
Assuming that Arrieta and Darvish both command deals in the 6/120 million range, I like Yu Darvish’s chances to deliver contract value more than I like Jake Arrieta’s, despite how poorly Yu pitched this last postseason…..
Stanton and Donaldson.
The Cardinals will almost certainly need to give away one or more of those young pitchers you mention in order to acquire Stanton or other help on offense. That’s why it’s still a good idea to look into Darvish/Arrieta types, or maybe into resigning Lynn if he has any interest in coming back.
Why dont they inquire about David Price?
Huge contract and arm issues that forced him to the DL. He also has an opt out in his contract making it near impossible to not only know what to expect out of him but also how to value him in terms of what you trade away.
Red Sox would probably be open to trading Price, but I can’t see any team assuming the full value of his remaining contract. BOS is probably planning to spend the winter praying Price can bounce back to at least 75% of what he was 4 or 5 years ago.
@solaris601…..Praying is Boston’s only real hope since no team is dumb enough to trade for a highly paid pitcher with a very suspect arm that could literally fall off at any minute, UNLESS you included at least 60% of his contract value IN CASH……………
The Red Sox probably won’t give up on him yet.
Even though they should…
Never should have gone just for the cheddar…
@Pudge…..once you offer someone a guaranteed 100+ million dollar contract, you really cannot “give up” on them, since you still have to pay them the full amount owed…..By that measure, David Price will be given 4-5 YEARS to prove that he is worth the money he is making because that is roughly the amount of time and money left on his deal…
Why wouldn’t they trade for Price? He could’ve been a Cardinal this past offseason but he left them at the altar to sign with Boston for $30 million more. No thank you
Would*
I hope they don’t go after Arrieta. I don’t think he’ll ever be as good as he was with the Cubs.
Arrieta pitched in Wrigley. A terrible ballpark to pitch in. I think he would dominate in STL. But I’d rather hold up the money and acquire a 1 year rental to allow one of our young guy’s to take over next season.
Yeah, same here.
Arietta’s career ERA at Busch Stadium is 4.21 and his WHIP is 1.46.
that’s really pretty meaningless if you consider he faced pretty good cardinal lineups over his career at Busch. (last year being the exception).. we have zero idea how he’d fare against the rest of the league there. he’s never faced anyone else there to have any reference.
Fair enough.
Wrigley is not a terrible place to pitch in at all
Wrigley being a hitters park is an outdated idea. It’s been more of a pitchers park recently. Wind doesn’t blow out at the rate it once did.
I think the Friendly Confines is more of a neutral park now because the newer parks have tended to favor the hitter, That and the night games which they did not have prior to ’88.
@Pudge…If I am St Louis no way would I overpay for Jake Arrieta’s inevitable coming decline of his age 32+ pitching seasons…….I would attain a big bat and then try to resign Lance Lynn.
Yeah but wouldn’t it be fun to stick it to the cub fans?
Stop touching yourself when you say that.
That implies it would be sticking it to the Cubs if they signed him.
I’m not a psychic, but something tells me that this did have something to do with Stanton. With the GM meetings going on this week, I could see them trying to swing a trade this week. If they are interested in a pitcher I hope it’s Arrieta they sign. I’m not a Darvish guy.
@Pudge….resigning Lance Lynn makes much more sense to me than overpaying for the age 32+ seasons of Scott Boras client Jake Arrieta….And Yu Darvish is probably not as good as Carlos Martinez or Michael Wacha so why sign him?
Donaldson Donaldson, and a Closer!
“it was about pitching” was a smokescreen. You know the meeting was about Stanton
It WASN’T about Stanton? Ok lol. Anyways, this surprises me a bit, considering they’re looking for a big bat, but for them to also look for a top-tier pitcher? Looks like Mo is gettin down to business (hopefully)
MO is pretty smart……I just hope the big bat comes soon!…..A part of me still thinks Piscotty will have a better year next year, wherever that is I don’t know, If he is still in STL I wouldn’t hate that idea…..
Mo has stated he wants to acquire a big bat FIRST before they go after a set up man, closer, or any starting pitching..Surely they would need to know Stantons answer Tuesday morning at the latest, because Mo wants to get this stuff DONE NOW, so the rosters are set. First
Mo wants to try trading for some young aces, if that doesn’t seem plausible they could go after Arrietta/Davis. I could see the Cards cashing in all chips/receipts/whatever you wanna call it and just go for it now..So many prospects they could lose from the rule 5 draft..Many prospects in the top 100, but not vaulted as high as others that’s why they have a good farm system..Fan base doesn’t want to wait anymore, they want to compete now and titles bring $$$ and value to a franchise as well…
Agreed, if he is serious about Stanton, he has to be the #1 priority. All else comes 2nd. You can’t set up your other pieces then decide to get Stanton. You can’t take the chance of hand-cuffing the payroll before the Stanton situation is sorted out.
It’s not all up to No when a trade takes place. All the teams in a trade have say. The team holding the talent has final say when they will trade him. I don’t see anything getting done this week. Or at least no big trades. Maybe a couple small ones.
Huge Cardinals fan, all I can say is, about damn time!!!
I know! It’s been like 2 whole years since they’ve been to the postseason.
That wasn’t my reference but sure think whatever you want bud
Amen!!!!
I sure Hope the Rangers can get a lot done in the GM meetings this time.
Don’t want darvish or Jake. Need the bat first.
I am confident the Cardinals will get their bat, but if it comes via trade they will need to replace the young pitchers they give up to get that help. Front office needs to be planning several steps ahead here, not just going all in on one guy without considering the long-term plan.
Should look into trading grichuk for Samardzija
I fully expect the Cardinals to sign Alex Cobb.
I really don’t get why exactly we traded Leake and yet continue to pay much of his salary. He’s not a good pitcher, true, but he’s not a bad pitcher, either, almost literally average. Which is what we will probably be picking up this offseason.
The best starter they could get is keeping Lance Lynn
There are some things to be considered about Lance Lynn. 1. His fastball velocity has been declining over the last 3 seasons, and that could be rough for a guy who throws fastballs 78% of the time. 2. His HR rate was the 18th worst in MLB. 3. His K rate is down, and BB rate is up. 4. Although his ERA appears to have been good, his FIP was 4.82, the 6th worst in MLB. Before 2017, the highest it had been was 3.49. This measures his ERA absent his fielders. The stats show that he pitched lucky last year. More balls than in the past were hit at fielders. 5. His predicted ERA for 2018 is 4.69 according to Baseball Prospectus.
@gregN213..well stated analysis……I still personally would prefer resigning Lynn to perhaps 3/48 million over breaking the bank to sign a 32+ yr old Jake Arrieta and then not being able to afford the big bat that the Cards desperately need…….
Sabermetrics makes for interesting baseball conversation, but it assumes that the speed of the ball is a constant, which it is NOT in MLB so I do not use sabermetrics OVER the eye test of seeing Lance Lynn pitch well his entire Cardinals career, save the yr he missed due to Tommy John…..
I never thought of it being a matter of sabermetrics OR the eye test. It’s a safe guess that all teams use both, although the weight that each team gives differs slightly. From what I’ve read, the Astros may be the team that it tilted most heavily toward sabermetrics. There aren’t many people who can see every pitch that every pitcher throws. So the stats, especially the enhanced ones they have now, give you the ability to “see” every pitch in mindboggling detail. This allows a team to compare its pitchers to others they may want to acquire as replacements.
I do agree, ….and thanks for not being a sabermetrics snob who thinks that people who have watched MLB for 40+ yrs know nothing unless they know every new advanced sabermetrics statistic, algorithim or metric……..
This is truly a make or brake for The Cards at these winter meetings. No more mediocrity, time to pull the trigger for a few deals.
These aren’t the winter meetings. These are the GM meetings.