2:15pm: The Twins issued the following statement:
“Today the Minnesota Twins were made aware of allegations involving Miguel Sano at an offsite appearance during the 2015 season. The Twins, along with Major League Baseball, take these allegations very seriously. Until more information is gathered, the Twins will have no further comment.”
A short while later, Sano issued the following statement:
“I unequivocally deny the allegation made against me today — it never happened. I have the utmost respect for women, especially those working in professional sports, and I deeply sympathize with anyone who has experienced sexual harassment. There is no place for it in our society.”
12:53pm: Photographer Betsy Bissen has accused Twins third baseman Miguel Sano of assault, in a post on social media this morning. Bissen, a photographer who has covered Twins games and events, describes an incident in 2015 with Sano at an autograph signing. Bissen says Sano recognized her from Twins games she worked as a photographer. In her account, she describes how Sano flirted without reciprocation during the signing, and later “grabbed my wrist and made me go” with him, his agent, and her employer to an Apple Store. Bissen further describes the incident as follows:
“We spend around a half hour inside that store before it was time for him and his agent to leave. Their car was pulled around to a back hallway door. As we got outside, the athlete decided he needed to use the restroom. I asked my boss where it was and pointed to the door we just walked thru. Apparently I was too close, and the athlete took that as a signal that I wanted him to grab me and try to take me back thru that door.
I pulled back as he held onto my wrist. It hurt, how badly he was grasping at my wrist, but he wouldn’t let go. I wasn’t going to give up my fight though. He then leaned down and tried to kiss me, more than once. Every time he did, I said no and kept pulling back. I was in a squatted position with my wrist throbbing. I screamed, no one came to help me. He finally gave up after a solid ten mins of fighting to pull me thru that door. I don’t even want to think of what he may have done, had he got me thru that door. No, he didn’t rape me, but he sure did assault me. When I said no, it should have been the end of it. He should have respected that and stopped. Instead, he hurt me and kept going.
The next day, my body was sore all over from having to fight off this athlete that thought he was entitled to take advantage of me against my will.”
MLB and the players’ union agreed to a domestic violence, sexual assault, and child abuse policy in August 2015. It seems likely that MLB will investigate this incident, which could result in a suspension for Sano. It appears the Twins may just be learning about this incident. This year’s #metoo movement seems to have compelled Bissen to share her story publicly. I asked Bissen in a Twitter message whether she would cooperate with MLB if they contact her, and she replied, “If they do, I will cooperate. I honestly don’t want anything from this other than to feel free from what happened to me.”
wow
What is the reason again this is just now coming to light? Did she reports this when it happened over 2 years ago? If not, WHY? Also , why didn’t she scream or yell for help in the Apple Store ? I guess I’m just confused .
” I screamed, no one came to help me.”
Would have been nice if you’d bothered to read the story before posting your ignorant statement.
Also note that if you’ve followed the story anywhere but here, lots of people who know her believe her.
I did read the story ! That’s why I’m confused
I didn’t say if I believed or didn’t believe her. I believe in facts
If you believe anything else, than you are the ignorant one!
#metoo – It’s gonna explode.. The high paid escorts will become even more wealthy.
It does not matter. You can be confused and wonder all you want but It nothing you’re asking matters.
Be confused all you want but nothing you’re asking matters. What you’re doing is victim blaming and that never looks good on a person.
Where does it say I don’t believe her story? It doesn’t ! I’m not taking either side, because I don’t jump to conclusions
and pass judgements on someone , Especially without ALL the facts! Not my job OR yours! Don’t know who you think you are, but get off your high
and mighty horse ! It’s a long fall !
Jimimc, how do you figure brucewayne is victim blaming? He is asking a question to try and understand. Also, who says she is a victim? If Sano is being wrongfully accuses then he is the victim isn’t he? But you are automatically assuming cuz she is a women and says she was assaulted then it’s true? You are a moron
Unless she weighs about 350 can’t imagine Sano would have trouble getting her into the bathroom if it went down like she described. Why’d she wait 2+ yrs. If something did happen IMO it was an encounter less traumatic than what she said. If it happened exactly as she stated give him a one-way ticket back to the dominican,revoke his Visa. #boycottsocialmedia
Well this sucks
I know this is a traumatic event and all but is it just me or is there a whole lot of specific details in that would be tough to remember 2 years later? and some of this just seems a little off, I could be wrong but this just smells to high heaven to me, even the way she tells this as if shes like a superhero fighting crime or something.
Exactly, it reads like fiction. I can’t say whether I believe it or not at the moment, but it doesn’t read like facts.
it sounds rather credible to me and I find it rather hard to believe she would invent a story that also involves his agent and her boss who were with them and should be able to corroborate some or all details unless they’re also worried about protecting themselves after being complicit in the incident if indeed that’s the case.
For sure either she or Sano is not telling the truth.
If Sano has history of this sort of behavior, or Bissen told people in her life at the time it happened, it will come out during the investigation.
Have to also wonder if this could become criminal matter if statute of limitations hasn’t expired.
I would hate for innocent person to be falsely accused, but also an assault victim not to get deserved justice or allow a predator off scott free.
“For sure either she or Sano is not telling the truth.”
I think you’re on to something.
It has already come out that she told others at the time.
Narrowing down the field.
I believe you or me could be right!
Agreed. Wrist throbbing? Solid ten minutes? All the while, there are others right there watching?
Something like that you don’t forget. Certain things may be exaggerated (may not have literally been 10 minutes)– but right now I see no reason to doubt her assault claims. Time will tell.
Yeah, what reason would she have to create this story?
Yeah, what possible reason could she have? She posted this on Twitter. Just the victim points alone are worth it to some people.
How miserable do you have to be for your default assumption to be that women make this stuff up to score ‘victim points’?
Jesus. How depressing.
Or maybe it’s a commentary on how many rape accusations turn out to be false.
Which would be a fraction of those that turn out to be true and an even smaller fraction of those that go unreported.
You’ve been on a roll, Tom.
It’s on the order of 2 percent, tom.
You literally just made that up. If not, cite your source. The vast majority of alleged rapes are not prosecuted because of a lack of evidence. THAT does not mean they all didn’t happen, but the point is it is impossible to gather only 2% are hoaxes. In fact, many of them are hoaxes, and that is a huge problem.
To name a few high profile rape hoaxes: duke lacrosse, rolling stone, Lena Dunham, UC Santa cruz’s Triplett hoax, Desiree Nall sexual assault awareness week hoax, Princeton 1991, the Wyoming self directed rape threat hoax, Hofstra. These were all high profile hoaxes later disproved or recanted. It’s awful, most of all for the victims of the hoax and the real victims of rape.
You literally need to stop making definitive statements, Tom. Take a look here: www(.)washingtonpost(.)com/news/fact-checker/wp/2014/12/09/the-truth-about-a-viral-graphic-on-rape-statistics/?utm_term=.80c237f87982 I’m sure you’ll dismiss this, but a simple search will cough up the same statistics elsewhere.
For every false report, there’s an estimated 49 that are accurate (which is 2%), and only an estimated 35% (on the high) of sexual assaults are believed to be reported, for all the reasons detailed by both men and women right here in this comment section.
Think about that for a second, Tom. If only 1/3rd of sexual assaults are reported, what do you think the statistics of false reports would be if ALL assaults were reported? I’ll give you a hint: it would be far less than 2%. But feel free to champion your cause and dismiss the likeliness that a sexual assault may have been the intent here.
You should talk to a Social Worker, or someone (else) who’s worked with survivors of sexual violence, as well as a lawyer, to set you straight with your ill-informed opinions.
I love how you take a flawed study, declare it as an absolute authority on this subject, then tell others they need to seek aid in fixing their ill-informed opinions. You are pure gold.
It happens! How naive do you have to be to think just cuz someone says something happened to them, it’s true
Chester, feel free to pick any study you find yourself from a search and get back to me.
How naïve are you to not understand what’s going on here? The argument isn’t whether or not he’s guilty, it’s about the accusation being sexual assault.
Holy smokes. If this is true he should be banned from the MLB and jailed.
Sexual assault is such a massive spectrum now a days. Wait to hear what it is before you make judgments like that
that is why he said “if true”. please read better
You should learn to comprehend better. Very small things can be considered sexual assault these days because everything is blown out of proportion. So he may be guilty but might not necessarily be something to be jailed for
So IF what she is saying is true he shouldn’t be jailed? I didn’t realize that holding someone and trying to kiss her without permission wasn’t a criminal act. Again if her statement is true it sounds as if she was even forced to go to the Apple Store. Not saying it’s true because we don’t have the facts yet but if it is that’s called a crime.
All i said was hear all the facts. What she is saying is not fact (yet).
Then I said from the beginning if what she said is true he should be arrested. I’m confused as to what you are arguing here.
If the allegations are true, this is still not sexual assault as a matter of law.
Not a fact, yet? It’s either a fact or it isn’t, time doesn’t change whether her statement was true (factual) or false (not-factual).
Being “proven” does not equal being factual. You could rob someone. It would be a fact that you robbed them. Just because the police can’t charge you for the crime because they lack evidence doesn’t mean that you didn’t, factually, rob someone.
@sngehlo1
No one is arguing against what you just said. The case is not a KNOWN fact yet. No one is disputing the definition of the term fact. You’re arguing semantics against nobody here. Don’t get caught up on technicalities if you can comprehend the common sense meaning of a person’s comment.
If she was forced into the Apple store, why didn’t she scream for help in the crowded store or try to run away? Not trying to trivialize her ordeal, I’m just curious why she stayed if she was so uncomfortable from the get go and brought into a public place against her will. Something doesn’t add up, but if her accounts are true he should be held accountable for his actions.
Here is a rundown of what is considered sexual assault in Minnesota and the penalties.
stopvaw.org/united_states_minnesota_sexual_assault
statelaws.findlaw.com/minnesota-law/minnesota-rape-and-sexual-assault-laws.html
Groping and trying to kiss without consent is a 5th degree offense and a “gross misdemeanor” with up to a year in jail.
Keeping her there by force, even for just 10 minutes, qualifies as false imprisonment in Minnesota.
There is a good chance that if what she says is the facts of the case then this is a jailable offense in Minnesota.
Right now the allegation is not substantiated. But Sano, and other high-profile celebrities like him, strain their credibility and our credulity when issuing denials in language that is clearly not their own. His statement was likely written by his agent; we only know what the agent wants us to think Sano thinks, but we are left entirely in the dark about what Sano himself thinks or feels.
Maybe so, but that certainly is a description of assault, battery, false imprisonment and harassment. An inventive prosecutor could likely tack on a few more.
Wait, is trying to kiss without consent is a crime? Well we better jail all men who have had a date they thought went well, but misread the situation.
I’m no expert, but trying to kiss a woman repeatedly while she’s saying no the entire time seems like it could be a crime.
That’s why high profile people have agents. To handle things like this for them. To me the story seems a little dramatic. But she says there are witnesses so they should be able to confirm or deny said details.
Way to divert to common sense, Tim!
Yeah, she says three other people were there with them, and also outside that door. And all this allegedly happened for ten solid minutes, and her in pain, and squatting down, all while they watched? Something is off.
It may not sexual assault (though kissing and ass-grabbing certainly could constitute such) but it definitely is assault, even battery if he inflicted injury on her.
It could even qualify as a form of kidnapping or imprisonment if the allegations are true that he forced her (or intimidated/threatened her) to go with him to another location, against her wishes.
I couldn’t disagree with you more..
In any legal situation like this it’s SOP for someone’s attorney to prepare a carefully worded statement.
To take the position that it somehow affects someone’s credibility is, at best, grossly unfaiir.
Yes it absolutely is
Clearly there’s a pretty huge difference being going for a kiss and getting turned down vs. trying forcibly to kiss a protesting, screaming woman. I feel sorry for your dates if you can’t tell the difference.
Such a “wide spectrum”? But guess what it’s still considered SEXUAL ASSAULT no matter where in your wide spectrum it may fall.
Its not my wide spectrum its called the law. You should get familiar with it
Log off.
It is a spectrum. A butt-grab and forced penetration rape are both sexual assault and both wrong, but there is absolutely a massive spectrum.
So should you. Go read the links I posted above.
It’s just extremely sad that you come to the defense of the player because of the wide spectrum of the law. If anyone should be reading anything it’s you and about the long term effects of ANY KIND of sexual assault
Sano did deny the allegations. And no lets no pretend the worst possible scenario is the same as the most subtle. People like you are the reason matt damon is getting flack
It’s not Sexual Assault!
Not all assaults are sexual assaults. Nor is all sexually inappropriate behaviour a sexual assault. Yet, the current narrative that is taking over is that any sort of misconduct or inappropriate behaviour is being construed as both sexual and an assault. That’s where the “wide spectrum” comes in.
ummm…ya, I’m fairly certain that it does indeed matter a whole lot which end of the spectrum that this, or any other alleged crime that supposedly took place. Would you feel the same way if it was you who was the one who was accused of such an act. The spectrum is that the entire thing is a complete fabrication all the way to him doing serious time in a federal institution, so ya, it seems as if it matters a little bit as to where that spectrum falls. Doesn’t seem like an insignificant part of the conversation.
Wow…you mention we should wait for the facts and there are more thumbs down than up.,,as if waiting for facts is somehow bad? Welcome to the new US, where due process is no longer required by the masses.
It’s the new old Wild Wild West!
Let’s all agree on one thing. If you’re a super star athlete and you’re getting turned down and feel you need to be in the position where you’re trying to force women into bed with you, you’re doing it wrong.
It’s not. There’s a clear-cut definition of what is considered sexual assault and what is not. Attempting to force kisses fits the profile. The author wasn’t wrong. Sano is being accused. A court will determine if he’s guilty.
I doubt either of those 2 things happen.
That’s why I said if this is true. Sexual assault is a crime. Any normal person like you or I IF we did that we would be locked up and lose our jobs. Why shouldn’t he?
Likely yes, but you’ve seen how many things people in sports have gotten away with over the years.
I have and it’s unfortunate. If there’s no real consequence what’s to stop this from happening? I’m not accusing Sano either I’m just stating in general.
Shouldn’t be too hard to prove. His agent isn’t going to admit anything, but the woman’s employer seems to be in a position to confirm or deny the worst of it.
Miguel is a good guy. He dindu nuffin’
You think an unwanted kiss warrants jail?
It wasn’t “just a kiss.” He grabbed her wrist while repeatedly attempting to kiss her (and do much worse had he successfully dragged her into the bathroom). I know this is just an allegation at this point, but ignoring a woman’s rejection is such a beta male move.
But it’s also not sexual assault.
I read that rumors were floating around yesterday about sano being floated in trade talks
Now we know why if true
She said the Twins didn’t know about it.
She said that the Twins didn’t know about the incident until she tweeted about it today. twitter.com/BitzyBetsy/status/946420338631491584
Check your sources on these rumours.
Hmm the fad is coming to baseball too.
Exactly. These incidents are far two common. Many of them could be true but it’s odd how all these people waited so long to say what happened. It doesn’t add up.
Hypothetically if something happened to you you would be jumping to tell everyone?
My initial thought too but then thought for a minute. She worked Twins games. Sano is one of the stars of the team. Guessing she feared would lose the Twins gig if she spoke out thereby losing income.
Wow. Doubtful. In my mind if it was as serious and painful as she states she would have gone forward immediately. Job or no job. I don’t understand the reason to wait years.
If a MAN groped you, tried to kiss you multiple times, and held you without your consent, would you immediately report it?
I doubt it. A manly man like you would be far too embarrassed to say that some guy did that to you.
Most women have been sexually assaulted multiple times in their lives and have NEVER reported it.
Social ostracizing, embarrassment, fear of reprisal, loss of income, and many other reasons why, but the fact is most are never reported.
“Most women have been sexually assaulted multiple times in their lives”
Where are your facts? That’s a ridiculous assumption.
“Facts” are difficult to come by as most women do not come forward when sexually assaulted.. Every single woman I know has been assaulted multiple times and I know many women from all classes and backgrounds. If you ask any woman in your life if they have been assaulted or worse you may gain some insight. “Studies” claim that it is at least 20% of women that have been through sexual assault but that number is very very conservative.
This is exactly why so many don’t come out when it happens. I’m sure there are folks that make up stories like this, but it causes actual victims to be afraid to report similar incidents. Despite what many may say, no company/organization, etc., wants to deal with something like this when it comes up. They’d much rather pretend that it never happened, which causes further unreported incidents/abuse.
It takes courage to speak up.
Um, it’s definitely not a fad. Women have been getting sexually assaulted throughout history and it’s just now becoming okay to talk about it and finally put an end to it. This is a real issue and should be taken seriously, it is not a fad
Agree that it is now ok to talk about it but way to soon to tell if this will even put a dent into the problem let alone end it. People that do it think they are way to powerful to be called on it so they do what they do. They think it is someone who is dumb gets caught but they are way to smart to get caught.
I absolutely agree with you but the point I was making is calling this a fad to speak out about sexual assault and abuse gives it a sense of “once this outrage is over, back to sexually assaulting people without repercussions”. This is not a fad, it should be the new norm to not sexually abuse people. That’s all I’m saying.
Actually it’s just not women who get sexually assaulted ! It also happens to men as well! That NEVER gets reported!
“That never gets reported.”
O’Really? hollywoodreporter.com/news/kevin-sorbo-alleges-des…
Ok! Hardly ever gets reported ! Is that better for you ?
By the way, the word Hollywood should tell you all you need to know!
“ . . . the word Hollywood should tell you all you need to know.”
What should the word “Hollywood” be telling me here? Looks like something that (allegedly) happened between a clothing designer and a model. Actually took place in Italy but could easily have happened in NY. Not sure what point you’re trying to make here?
Ok hero! You found ONE example ! Good for you! Do you want a cookie? The point I was trying to make originally was it also happens to men
and HARDLY EVER gets reported. Except in the Hollywood Reporter. Is that better for you? Can you sleep better at night now?
happened in 2015, only coming out now. hmmmm..
Hmmmm what?
As she clearly stated in her statement, she felt that if she said anything she would lose her opportunities in Major League Baseball and Minnesota; largely because of people like you.
right, or possibly it didn’t really rise to the level of something that needed to be reported, but given the current climate, the lady saw an opportunity to cash in. It’s certainly plausible, Everyone is innocent until proven guilty.
Not anymore. Nowadays, it’s actually the opposite.
unfortunately that seems to be the case, but it shouldn’t be that way. The rush to judgment torch and pitchfork crowd disgusts me, regardless of the issue.
Cash in how?
She said she doesn’t want anything from this so let’s see if she’s consistent with that.
lawsuit/settlement
Innocent til proven guilty but by your own words you’re also assuming that due to ‘the current climate’ that ‘the lady saw an opportunity to cash in’. We dont know what her motivations are to accuse Sano of sexual assault.
“Cash in” is a poor usage of words to describe the motivations of an alleged sexual assault victim because it presumes the accuser is lying
Is this a real question…? Cash in how…lol
A multi millionaire who plays in a multi billion dollar industry “assaulted” her. How would someone get rich by this?? Lol she said she wasnt flirting lol omg
Right which is why I said it’s possible not saying either is right or wrong right now.
By that same notion sexual assault victim is a poor word because it presumes she isn’t lying, none of know the truth right now. I just said it’s possible.
Or maybe she doesn’t want him to do it to someone else and knows that saying something now can help prevent that
Maybe but you have to ask what took her two years?
Thinking she wouldn’t be believed, losing work opportunities for its the twins….now with all these things coming out she could feel a lot more comfortable.
This came in response to the “me too” movement and she literally stated she doesn’t want anything from this (financially). Keep in mind, she didn’t file charges or a civil suit, so there’s little reason to doubt her intent.
“People like you?” You mean people who want all the facts before they condemn someone for life with a horrible judgement? Assume much?
Who cares about your opinion? You were born in a year that isn’t 2017, so you don’t matter anymore.
“You were born in a year that isn’t 2017, so you don’t matter anymore.”
So you are 0-11 months old?
he might be a very smart baby, learning how to read and write English at such a young age and being able to use a computer so young
And most importantly, he likes baseball 🙂
Buddy, I’m saying that the fact the alleged incident with Sano happened in 2015 and wasn’t told till now doesn’t invalidate it. I was using sarcasm to tell OP that since his birth wasn’t in 2017 (i.e. after 2015), his opinions must be invalid.
U know, in the same way he’s saying the allegations not being recent as of 2017 invalidates the accusation
I’m confused as to what you are implying
It’s called the storm
If it happens to a dude… a fist fight breaks out, right? When it happens to some women the pattern seems to be that it takes time to build the courage to come forward. That’s just the way it seems to be. You’re talking about overwhelmingly humiliating experience so… embarrassment is probably the culprit here.
But that’s not to say you may be right as well.
That would be unfortunate loss for the start of the 2018 season for the twins
It’s not always about baseball. If true, this woman suffered more than the Twins
It is very unfortunate and sad that this happened to her. I just don’t try to put my opinion on situations like this. I’ll just wait and see what happens. All I’m saying is twins lost a big piece going into the 2018 season
“…that this happened to her”..???
Rushing to judgement, aren’t we?
She’s saying it did. I don’t really see the motivation to lie.
Super sinker groped me! I feel raped. #metoo.
Am I lying? What would my motivation be to lie? I don’t have any reason to lie so it must be true.
I’m not saying Sano did or didn’t do it. What I’m willing to say is it sounds like a greatly exaggerate story at the least. She has plenty of motivation to fabricate and exaggerate a story. You’re completely obtuse if you can’t see that.
That we are not aware of a motivation to lie, neither proves there is one or isn’t one. We do not know what happened, and may never know.
And you could say the same for Sano. He denied it, so he must be right also. Why would he jeopardize his career and multi million dollar income by forcing himself on a woman. Maybe he was being flirtatious but backed off once she showed no interest. And maybe the dude is guilty as hell. I just encourage anyone to keep an open mind.
Why would Ray Rice knock out his fiancée? Just because a person is a millionaire with a high profile job, doesn’t mean he is incapable of doing bad things. Bad people have all kinds of jobs and net worth.
Just trade him now.
Yankees would prob take him. They took Chapman.
from a purely logistical standpoint it doesn’t sound like a domestic, sexual or child assault happened. it reads as just pure assault so I wonder how this would fall into the policy.
Trying to kiss her would be sexual assault. Again if it’s true.
It seems to fit the description of sexual assault, a somewhat vague term. I know that Betsy agrees with that.
‘Trying’to kiss someone is not sexual assault. He would have to have succeeded and forcibly kissed her against her will for that to count. Yanking her by the wrist and/or refusing to let go is def assault though, not much gray area there (if true)
If I shoot a gun in an attempt to kill you, the charge of attempted murder vs actual murder doesn’t change the fact that the intent was to kill you. Sexual predation should be charged on the intent of the predator, not on the victims ability to fight back and prevent further assault.
“Trying’to kiss someone is not sexual assault. ”
It is when you’re doing it forcefully. Twisting her wrists, forcefully trying to kiss while trying to take her into another room… what are you missing here bro?
Maybe that’s just Tuesday night at the stadium in LA, idk.
And there goes his trade value. Good chance the Twins could just cut him after this.
Great….
Then again after that broad at espn got caught lying I have to have that smidge of doubt in my mind at least. Can’t automatically assume one way or the other
“Broad”?…Is leaded gas still .11 cents per gallon in your world and a woman dam sure knows her place?
She was a lousy gold digger who tried to use a false sexual harassment claim for her monetary gain
She deserves no symphony. Thankfully he kept those text messages and exposed her
I believe that all women deserve a symphony. But then, I’m a romantic.
Ehh, what she did is a slap in the face to women who have gone through sexual assault
Broad? If you aren’t Frank Sinatra, you can’t get away with broad. It’s not 1958 anymore.
My fantasy baseball team name is Sinatra
Nancy?
no just Sinatra. Two years ago it was Sinatra 100 in honor of the anniversary of Franks 100th birthday. Now its back to just Sinatra. have you ever heard of a cooler name for a fantasy baseball team?
“Broad”? What a stupid comment to make. We’re at a point in time where everything should be looked into, regardless if they’re fabricating it or not. If true, he should be punished
She got caught using a false sexual harassment claim for monetary gain. As such she deserves so sympathy
Good thing he kept the texts and exposed her
If he did it than he’s a piece of garbage for it. I’m saying that you can’t assume every case to be true unless there are facts present
The point of using the term “broad” during any kind of assault allegation against a female is in bad taste. I agree that everything is “innocent until proven guilty”, but just because an example of one person saying it turned out to be false, doesn’t mean every woman is a lying POS trying to get money.
Truth.
You’ve gotta prove it.
People who refer to women (or anyone for that matter) disparagingly like this are contributing to the problem.
You are defending her actions ? No wonder women get away with everything in this feminist fueled society. She got caught period and almost ruined that mans career. Me calling her a broad in a singular matter doesn’t mean I think of women that way
Regardless of what she did, the use of an outdated sexist term to describe a human being perpetuates the notion that it’s still okay to refer to women in that way.
if the shoe fits, put that mf on
delete your account. youre white knighting a liar.
These guys defending that woman from espn are the types of guys who woul apologize to their girlfriend/wife if she cheated on them
In case all of you were wondering, this is a baseball website.
Way to entirely miss the point. Nobody is defending her actions. Pointing out that calling someone a sexist term is counterproductive and adding to the problem is not an endorsement or defense in any way
He’s deflecting. That case has absolutely nothing to do with this. Completely ridiculous.
“Regardless of what she did, the use of an outdated sexist term to describe a human being perpetuates the notion that it’s still okay to refer to women in that way.”
alt2tab – I’m new here. Is this forum really this touchy feely SJW White Knighty or are you the anomaly here?
My point was that you can’t just assume sano is guilty. The case from that ESPN employee is an example why
If it happened at an Apple Store like she said they should have cameras right? Plus there were other people there who should be able to say what they saw? Seems like a legit answer should come of this
Exactly. If she remembers the date it happened this can be solved quick
Yeah but it was 2015. Not so sure that surveillance cameras can go back that long.
They sure can go back that far
She said she was fighting him for 10 minutes. That’s an awful long time for someone not to notice. in a crowded social place.
Read her story. Part of it occurred outside a back door of the store, which means it was likely in an alley.
Again, 10 minutes is an awful long time. I don’t care if it’s the front, back, side, or roof of the store. In 10 minutes, someone saw and heard something.
She screamed and no one helped her? NO ONE? I find that hard to believe even in 2015. Not saying it didnt happen, just hard to believe. And if she went with those other people, they should be able to confirm. Truth should come out, and it sux that this type of thing happens at all (though I cannot help but think the elevated status we give athletes–and movie stars–only emboldens them)
No retailer keeps surveillance that far back unless they have cause.
If this happened in an Apple store, there is video evidence somewhere
from 2 years +?? not so sure the video would still exist from the security cameras. Would not be cameras at the door to the restroom. Way to many legal issues for a camera at that area.
Do you strip down before you enter a restroom?
People would sue the establishment if there were cameras pointed at the entrance to a restroom as the potential to record someone in some stage of undress when the door is opened and reflections in mirrors. Why do you think threats are always made on restroom walls?? No video to see who may have done it.. Not rocket science here .
Most store have cameras aimed down the hall towards the bathrooms or at least aiming as you walk towards the bathrooms. Also, it would be a miracle to have video from two years ago. I know more about retail video surveillance than 100% of the other people here.
No one heard anything in the Apple store? I’ve never heard of a Apple store that was that empty that no one heard a scream or the words no. But if this does come out to be true then someone heard something at the store and got paid money to keep quiet
I may not have described this as clearly as I would have liked, but it did not happen in the Apple Store. Best to just read her account.
Best not to report falsely. How about delete the article due to your inability at reporting.
Just saying.
Calm down. His ability to report is the reason this site exists and is respected.
Seriously? I want what you’re smoking.
@Phil It’s not like a bunch of other reporters don’t report news that ends up turning false or parts in it that end up being false.
(You dont have to read the stories on this site, ya know)
Funny how this story is now on even the most mainstream of media reports or is it all “fake news”? I think you owe Tim an apology Mr. Internet Tough Guy.
And a social warrior such as yourself can’t handle what I smoke.
He has reported nothing falsely. Read her account and buy some reading comprehension. Then apologize.
I did, it was called a college education. A place were I met a bunch of smug, unhappy know-it-all’s like you think you’re better than everyone else. You must be a Yankees fan too I bet.
The author clearly decided to call this sexual assault. He added it to it to get views and shock value. Nothing more. In her words, she did not call it sexual assault. Now, saying something like “Sano accused of assault” would be more accurate. Besides, with an accusation like this (no matter how true it may or may not be) can have serious implications for for both parties.
The sexual assault moniker gets thrown around a lot lately without thinking of the severity of the accusation.
You should ask for your money back then because you failed the reading comprehension test here.
1. “You must be a Yankees fan too I bet.”
You lose. Nats fan here.
2. “The author clearly decided to call this sexual assault.”
Because the facts as alleged by the complainant amount to a sexual assault. Doesn’t matter whether she used the words “sexual assault”, what she described was a sexual assault. Has anyone suggested he was trying to steal her purse?
3. “He added it to get views and shock value.”
No, he added it because it accurately summed up the accusation.
4. “The sexual assault moniker gets thrown around a lot lately without thinking of the severity of the accusation.”
Did you read her statement? She thought quite long and hard about this before coming forward. She knows the seriousness of the accusation and believes it appropriate. And, unlike several of y’all, I find her story credible.
5. “ . . . with an accusation like this . . . Can have serious implications for both parties.”
Well, shouldn’t it? If this lady made this story up she should have to deal with the fallout from lying. And if Sano really is a slimeball who assaults women he should be separated from ML baseball in addition to any criminal penalties. Problem?
Dunning-Kruger effect on full display.
why are you here? hes accused of sexual assualt. thats what Minnesota law equates this too. if its true or not he is accused of it. which is what the article states.
How do you know what she was thinking as you state in point 4? “She thought quite long and hard before coming forward.” Aren’t you making a lot of assumptions ? Maybe you should wait for ALL the facts to come out before condemning a man with a lifetimes worth of damning judgement ! Myself , I’m not taking either side, that’s not my job to judge. I believe in facts and that’s it!
Before you try
and say you have shown both sides, you state “I find her story credible.” It sure sounds like you have already found Sano guilty to me!
Wait….. so YOU are condemning this guy for SeXual assault (not assault), without any intimite knowledge of the events that actually took place….. WOW!!!!! Way to take some journalistic liberty with a guy’s career. I’m not saying Assaulting her is any better, but attaching “sexual” to it, is a whole level that wasn’t even represented by the accuser?
I’m pretty sure that is libel
Just a layman but attempting to kiss a woman and attempting to drag her into a restroom while doing so seems to me like it would fall under sexual assault.
I don’t disagree, but last time I checked, you need to be proven guilty, and presumed innocent until concrete proof can be determined….. until that point, accusing this individual of sexual assault, especially in the current social climate, is malicious and Libelious
So you don’t disagree that the alleged conduct is sexual assault. The victim herself agrees with the author that she considers this to be a sexual assault. And it is being reported that Sano is accused of this, not that he is guilty of it.
You don’t need to first be proven guilty to have an article written about you saying you are accused of that same thing.
That is not libel.
I didn’t accuse anyone of anything. I wrote that Miguel Sano has been accused of sexual assault by Betsy Bissen. This is a fact.
So all of the details have to be dug up and a verdict has to be decided before any accusations are made? Sounds backwards to me, duder.
Looks like some folks need a primer on “innocent until proven guilty.” That is the legal standard for criminal trials. We do not send people accused of crimes to prison until and unless they are convicted of a crime. It does not apply to who to vote for, who to hire, who to punish for team and league rules violations and the like. Manfred and the Twins can apply whatever standard the CBO allows.
“ . . . accusing this individual of sexual assault, especially in the current social climate, is malicious and Libelous.” (Sic)
Cool. Let him sue her for libel. I’d rather have her countersuit.
I asked Betsy if she’d call it sexual assault, and she said yes.
According to the Department of Justice, “Sexual assault is any type of sexual contact or behavior that occurs without the explicit consent of the recipient.”
I believe that unwanted kissing is considered a form of sexual assault, to say nothing of trying to forcibly make her go somewhere as well.
You should be careful. He has not been accused of sexual assault. He had been accused of assault, egregious as that is. The DOJ does not have the power to determine the definition of sexual assault. That is a statutory matter, and the accusations do not come close to sexual assault. Unwanted kissing is not sexual assault in any jurisdiction in this country. It would not carry jail time. Unwanted grabbing of the buttocks or chest – as despicable as that is – is also not sexual assault. He has been accused of assault.
Just because kissing is an activity with sexual implications does not make it sexual assault.
I would also note that, although the DOJ does not decide the definition of sexual assault, it does list the definition you have. Importantly, for this conversation, it also lists examples of sexual assault, all of which are far more egregious that the allegations here. They include rape, attempted rape, forced sodomy, incest, and things on that level.
The alleged grabbing of the reporter’s wrist actually has Sano in more trouble than the kissing because it caused physical injury, and could make it a felony.
The headline is very inflammatory, perhaps with good reason, but it is not accurate. You might consider just spelling out the allegation “accused of unwanted kissing” or “accuses of assault.” But it factually incorrect that he has been accused of sexual assault, regardless of how the victim characterizes it.
AMEN!
Some in the media would have you believe that an inappropriate look from someone could be misconstrued so far as to call it sexual assault. That is how broad the spectrum has gotten in this movement.
Again, I am not saying she’s lying and I am not stating that Sano is guilty either. It’s just the way that certain media members want to immediately jump out and classify it as something that it may not be, just to get views on their articles and shock value.
It’s a problem. There is a man lash coming. Unwanted advances are now perceived by many as sexual misconduct. Ask to buy a girl a drink in a bar and she says no? That’s now an unwanted advance and therefore sexual misconduct.
All the while, actual sexual assault and rape victims are sitting here having to listen to this nonsense.
I wish I could upvote this more.
All Tim did was report exactly what the woman’s accusations were. He did not inject his own opinions into the story and accusing him of purposefully attempting to profit off this woman’s pain is disgusting. Simply because the story seemingly has triggered some of your own biases on assault/sexual assault does not make it an inaccurate news story.
But she clearly said in her statement she said “no” and Sano continued to try and she resisted to little avail, She says it should have stopped at the “no”, but it didnt, and that’s why shes coming forward.
Consent was clearly not given , and yet the behaviour continued. To use your bar analogy if you bought a girl a drink and told her to drink it and she said no thank you, but you physically forced her to drink it anyways, that would be assault because she clearly did not give consent
Are you blind!?!
He even stated that HE decided to call it sexual assault and that SHE did not do so.
Therefore it is inaccurate because she didn’t claim the SA card. That was the authors addition on it.
Yes! Us men have had such a tough time these past few years! We’re the true victims. Definitely not the countless women who have been assaulted, harassed, and silenced for decades.
I believe in the original unedited article, Tim said he asked Ms. Bissen if she would characterize the incident as sexual assault, to which she responded yes.
Edit: reading through the comments, Tim distinctly said he asked Ms. Bissen whether she thought she was sexually assaulted and that she said yes. Everything Tim reported in this story is factually accurate and unbiased. He did not decide to call it sexual assault, he reported what the victim is accusing Sano of. Whether what Sano did or did not do qualifies as sexual assault v. assault is irrelevant if you’re reporting simply on what the accusation is.
Specifically who in the media would have you believe that an inappropriate look could be sexual assault?
Source please.
I’m not giving you my opinion, I’m explaining the law. The allegations do not rise to sexual assault, nor come close. Whether she said yes or no is irrelevant to whether this constitutes sexual assault. He is accused of assault, but not sexual assault. Big difference.
Tom, do you know how intent affects the legal definition of the crime he was accused of? I don’t. I’m just curious.
Given that he was allegedly trying to drag her into the bathroom, does that constitute attempted rape? It seems like it would be very difficult to prove a non-nefarious reason for dragging someone into the bathroom against their will. If not attempted rape, would it fall into the category of attempted kidnapping?
Who the heck are you to make a statement like that? It would be wise to quit pretending to be a lawyer and wait to see what charges–if any–are brought about him.
Tim just got schooled.
How is any person of either sex supposed to know an advance is unwanted unless he or she asks?
Generally speaking, if they repeatedly say “no” or you have to force them to do something in any way, they’re probably not into you.
As of right now, it’s all she said
and he said! It’s not what you tend to know as fact, but what you can prove in court!
You have a poor understanding of libel.
Nothing better than an MLB Trade Rumors comments section lawyer
I’ve found the people that continually defend scum bags are typically scum bags themselves. Uh oh, here comes a libel lawsuit against me!
Who is defending scumbags? And who is the scumbag being defended?
Playing telephone here appears to have created some confusion in the story. Sad story if true, but the person that wrote this maybe should have just added a link to the “victims” story.
If you think I mischaracterized her account, let me know where.
My comment was more based on the comments in the thread. Your audience seems confused on a couple parts. For example did this happen in an Apple Store or not? When he grabbed her wrist and shouted for help was Sanos agent preset? Why would you classify this as sexual assault vs assault?
Sir, I was somewhat confused with some parts of the story myself. Not to disparage you in any way, just wanted to let you know I was confused with some parts
I predict another year without Sano. Time to start exploring the 3B markets. At least Escobar can hold his own there.
Sexual assault is real; no sane person denies it. That said, there’s a lot of doubt about her telling of the events….at least 3 witnesses on the way to the store…., doubtless others in the store…..and nobody said anything???? Any other women in the restroom???? Two years ago??????
The court of public opinion is NOT the court of criminality; the standards are certainly different…..but her account strains a certain amount of belief…..
No doubt, it seems, “flirting” went on….but there’s a lot of landscape between that and legitimate sexual assault……
Sexual assault sucks. Period. End of story.
But to your point, since the horrific Harry Weinstein ordeal, what is deemed sexual assault has changed drastically. It has moved from unwanted sexual acts, grabbing body parts, exposing oneself, etc… to what many people used to consider flirting.
Kissing someone on the check, holding their hand, etc… was not considered sexual assault by the general public. I’m not saying that is what Sano did. Nor am I defending him. Rather just stating my opinion that sexual assault’s definition seems to have drastically changed. I’ve heard some people even state that complimenting a person can be considered sexual assault. This new awareness is needed, but it is a new world we live in. It’s why we are hearing so many reports of assault that happened years ago.
Wow. Just wow.
No one would call holding someone’s hand or kissing someone on the cheek sexual assault still. I think it’s sad how dismissive people are being with this kind of conduct and as long as they follow it up with “I’m not saying that’s what happened” or “if true” then they can say whatever the hell they want.
Sexual assault is like porn. There might not be a clear cut agreed upon definition but you know it when you see it (or experience it). This last part isn’t specifically geared towards you, but the reactions from what I’m assuming are mostly men in this comments section are exactly why people haven’t felt comfortable with coming forward with this kind of information. Some of the people in this thread should be ashamed of themselves and their reactions. Imagine if this was your daughter, your mother, your sister…just truly abhorrent comments and behavior.
I can’t believe you’re fine with assuming total truth on the side of the accuser and let a potentially innocent man get burned at the stake. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty period.
Yah that’s not what he/she was saying. Also, presumption of innocence does not equate to outright denial of Ms. Bissen’s claims as many of the poster’s here seem want to do. Due process is important, but it oversteps its bounds when we’re willing to believe the accused over the accuser. That has been a significant issue in the American judicial system, especially in regards to sexual assault, for decades and is the reason why so many women have been forced into silence.
People shouldn’t confuse being in favor of sexual assault with being in favor of due process. Trying your case on the news because you can’t try it in court bothers me on a certain level no matter what the offense is or who the involved parties are.
IF he’s guilty of it let him face the consequences of the law. Some of you seem really worried about the poor Twins. It’s not like they are ever going to compete with the big money teams. Wondering though why this woman waited over two years to come out with it? She was afraid of losing her “pro sports” gig and she was willing to keep quiet so she could still cover the twins…where’s the priorities here??
This isn’t the NFL where one team has been in every conference championship since my 3rd Grader was born. Baseball actually has parity and any team can legitimately win in a span of 8 years.
But back on topic…
He’s done.
He was already on the trading block. I knew he was going down this road when he hired Jay-Z as his agent and moved to New York City, showing his priorities with the people he’s hanging out with as well as his horrible work ethic and weight gain.
Hopefully they can package him and get Chris Archer or Gerrit Cole and move on from this saga.
Goodbye Sano Era!
Chris Archer or Gerrit Cole??? For Sano and who??
I don’t have a dog in this fight, as I’m not a Twins fan, That said I don’t see why MLB needs to get involved in this at all, if he broke the law, let the police investigate and bring charges, if not, then move on and maybe think less of him as a person, but I don’t see why the MLB needs to be involved.
if you commit sexual assault and your job finds out, i think they would fire you. how is Sano’s case any more complicated then that?
I guess it depends where you work at, but I would certainly argue they shouldn’t. The only question for an employer should be does this person help my business enough to justify their pay. If there’s not enough evidence to convict someone of a crime, then why should they lose their job? shouldn’t innocent until proven guilty mean something?
Baseball is an entertainment business. Sexual assault would hurt ticket sales and if true, Sano should be fired.
They have a policy that includes sexual assault; I’d be very surprised if they don’t get involved in this.
This would not fall under their sexual assault policy. Maybe domestic violence, but if not, I’m pretty sure they investigate all alleged criminal activity. Would be surprised with no action especially in this climate.
Read the law in Minnesota. This would be considered both sexual assault and false imprisonment. Both jailable offenses.
“Maybe domestic violence . . .”
Do you understand what the “domestic” part of “domestic violence” means? Here the victim and perpetrator are not married, do no reside together and have no prior relationship of any substance. So, no, it won’t be considered DV.
False.
That is not correct. In many jurisdictions, domestic violence encompasses non marital relationships and even non romantic relationships. It depends on the facts and jurisdiction. That’s why MAYBE is the key word.
“ . . . domestic violence encompasses non marital relationships and even non romantic relationships.”
You’re still missing the essence of “domestic”, Counselor. And what sort of “relationship” has been alleged here other than criminal and victim?
“That’s why MAYBE is the key word.”
No, the key word is “domestic” and it doesn’t even come close to applying here. This was a sexual assault, nothing more or less. It’s misleading to raise the issue of DV herein as it is irrelevant.
False. They knew each other beforehand. Not strangers. Again, I’m not giving my opinion.
These allegations do not rise to the level of sexual assault in Minnesota, nor in any other jurisdiction in the United States of America.
Tom smith,
You are not only wrong, you are loud wrong. Cool, you’ll be wearing this if he’s charged with sexual assault. And, nice attempt at moving the goalposts. You were and are wrong about it possibly being a DV incident so you switch to arguing that it’s not a sexual assault. And you are wrong there too. You managed to cram a lotta wrong into a little space. Nice work!
“False. They knew each other beforehand. Not strangers.”
They don’t have to be strangers. They just have to not be involved with each other in some personal manner, which is clearly the case here. Suggesting that it could be DV because they previously had incidental, work related contact is silly. Two guys who know each other from work run into each other at a bar after work and get into a fight. Is that DV? Come on, you aren’t even sounding like a bad lawyer here.
Something else to keep in mind, Counselor. Doesn’t matter where you practice or how long you’ve been practicing. You are not competent to comment on the sexual assault laws in every jurisdiction and pretending to do so is unethical. If you are actually offering these legal opinions without the benefit of a legal education you are beyond unethical you’re a complete fraud. Cheers.
Perfectly stated, majorflaw.
You are dead wrong pall. Sexual assault won’t even Ben considered if referred to the DA. the elements of sexual assault are VERY clear. He may very well be charged with a host of crimes, but it’s just not sexual assault. Stay in your neighborhood.
You should go ahead and cite the state abbreviation codes and section numbers for these laws you seem to know so much about.
You should start by reading Minnesota’s penal code 609.340 et seq. Then check the notes of decision on what constitutes sexual assault. Then check out how they defining “sexual contact” and how LITERALLY every definition involves the phrase “intimate parts” of which the wrist and lips are not.
This is not a close call. No respectable lawyer, nay…first year law student, would disagree with this.
Nice try, genius. If you actually read it, you would understand that intent is in play here and it specifically refers to intimate contact. And with that out of the way, you can start looking at individual cases of sexually motivated assaults. Think forced kissing doesn’t come up?
Me as well
I think before we get out the pitchforks, we should probably hear his side of the story. I’m not accusing her of lying, but I am also not saying she’s telling the truth either. It just really bothers me with the new “guilty because of accusation” society we have been increasingly becoming lately.
Well read the account that Tim provided the link to in the article. Based on her account, it appears that her boss from the store that she volunteered at and the players agent were present and if she struggled for 10 minutes screaming and yelling no, the agent and boss have some splaining to do.
Miguel Sano is a gigantic man. It wouldn’t take him 10 minutes to drag Joe Mauer into a bathroom much less a teeny, tiny, lady. So, there’s at least one hole in her story.
This
I thought of that too, but he could have pulled her and when she fought back he stopped and argued and then did it again. I highly doubt he was struggling to pull her for 10 straight minutes
“He finally gave up after a solid ten mins of fighting to pull me thru that door.”
I’m sure she will be interviewed by the police and a more explicit, detail by detail account of the story will be given. This is not a courtroom confession on her behalf, it is an attempt at navigating hurt.
That 10 minutes most likely included attempts at verbal persuasion on Sano’s behalf, intermixed with physical accosting as he became more frustrated by rejection. It could have also just felt like 10 minutes due to the traumatic nature of the event. This durational element really isn’t a hole in her story, especially since we don’t know the exact timeline anyway.
It’s possible it didn’t in fact last for ten minutes, but felt like ten minutes to her. That would be a common phenomenon in stressful situations.
I have a hard time believing that a celebrity could grab a woman by her wrist with people all around them and this happened. I mean hes there with his agent and employee and the agent didnt at some point say “hey dude you are on the verge of making hundreds of millions od ollars in the next 15-20 years , maybe you shouldnt be grabbing on her like”??? Now if she had said we were in a quite spot or by themselves with no real good way to hide from any other people maybe you can get into the he said she said stuff but there sure does seem to be way too many ways to prove this to be nothing but a crappy attempt to extort Sano and/or throw his reputation into the toilet. If it is true, Sano is a terrible person and deserves all the bad things in the world to happen to him but if its a lie ,please nail this lady to the wall with any and every punishment allowed under the law. This smells of a opportunistic ploy to make money given the way the last 3-4 months have gone with the sexual assault stuff.
I was thinking this as well.
Bringing up the agent makes me skeptical
I’m calling BS on this story, too many holes. Now, if it is determined and proven that Sano did this, he deserves jailed and banned from baseball in my opinion. However, let me play Devil’s Advocate for a moment. What if this lady had feelings that were more than professional toward Sano? What if he did not return her feelings? What if he used her for a good time, then ended it? Who’s to say that she could not have made up this story to be vindictive? Coming out as a victim of sexual assault is en vogue at the moment. My heart breaks for those that it truly has happened to. The ones making fraudulent claims need jailed. Let’s not rush to judgement just yet.
I live just outside Albany, NY and these three black college students who attended SUNY Albany accused a bunch of white people for being racist towards them on a public bus a couple years ago.
Whole thing was later proven to be a giant sham, and the three girls basically got a slap on the wrist (other than being expelled from school). No jail time for making up a huge story and wasting a whole bunch of time and taxpayer money.
And? WTF does that have to do with the accusation against Sano? Because three girls (assume they were under 18, else you would use another word to describe them) in Albany made up a story it is likely that this professional photographer associated with a ML team made up her story about Sano? Where is there any nexus, any connection between the two incidents?
Youre calling BS on the story but youre also saying to not rush on judgement.
None of us know all the facts!! How about just let MLB investigate before trying to tear down the victim?
what if dogs had human hands and could play volleyball really well?
To the writers, if she didn’t use the term “sexual” and was not violated sexually, then why use it? Seems it just makes the article more incendiary.
She didn’t call it just “assault” either. She just provided a story of what happened. I needed a term to describe the alleged incident and consider “sexual assault” to be the best choice here.
Tim Dierkes you did a hatchet job on the story. Total whiff.
Tim, by the laws of the state in which this incident occurred it is both sexual assault and false imprisonment, You got it right.
The way she described it, a sexual assault happened
Maybe so, but with an accusation of this nature, let the reader make their own opinion by reading the quoted text.
Implying something that it may not be “especially without the source’s blessing” is just asking for it and trying to add fuel to the fire for views of the article and “wow” factor.
utilizing the info that the woman provided one can conclude that this was sexual assault. the implication of sexual assault is in the details. she was held by her wrists and he attempted to kiss her continually even though he was denied.
This. Is. Sexual. Assault.
One must call it by its name. The fact that he hasn’t been convicted doesn’t mean that what the woman described doesn’t qualify as sexual assault.
This is false. Kissing is not sexual assault, as a matter of both fact and law. This is assault and arguably molestation. Sano’s biggest legal problem would be the physical injury caused by the wrist grabbing. That could cause potential charges (which aren’t coming by the way) to rise to the level of felony. Kissing would not, even if unwanted.
Tom, you are wrong. Go read Minnesota law. I posted the links above. If true, this is BOTH sexual assault and false imprisonment.
“Kissing is not sexual assault, as a matter of both fact and law.”
Citation please, Counselor? Your statement itself is nonsense. Either kissing is considered a sexual assault in a given jurisdiction or it isn’t, either way it’s a simple matter of law. What do you even mean by saying that kissing is not a sexual assault as a matter of fact? Like to see your reaction if Harvey Weinstein tried it on you.
It’s not the kissing part, it’s the alleged Forcing himself part on her that’s making it sexual assault !
You are incorrect. Kissing is NOT sexual assault in Minnesota. Or in any other jurisdiction in the United States. The links you sent (which by the way are themselves not entirely accurate) do not even agree with you.
False imprisonment, yes. Assault, yes. Battery, yes. Sexual assault? Absolutely not.
And by the way, if she goes around saying that he sexually assaulted her, she could have a defamation lawsuit on her hands.
Tom, your foot has been in your mouth throughout this thread. You’re clearly not a lawyer, so you should quit making definitive statements. Using a little common sense wouldn’t hurt, either.
I challenge you to identify one false statement I’ve made. You say I have no idea what I’m talking about, so this should be easy for you.
By the way, after I demonstrated how these allegations do not rise to sexual assault, Tim changed the headline.
The burden of proof is on you, Tom, not the other way around. You’re the one making definitive statements without citing the laws. You have yet to reference a state abbreviation number and section number, the name of a law, or even an interpreted legal definition from a direct quote. If you had actually done this, you would know that sexual contact, coercion, and intent are all in play here.
If this goes to court, he may not be charged with sexual assault. It may simply be impossible to prove, or a plea deal may lessen the charge. But the point is that you’re dismissing the possibility as fact.
Regarding Tim changing the headline, that didn’t change his opinion. He was likely trying to cool the tone here down a notch, so don’t be so quick to pat yourself on the back. If you searched for other articles on this issue, you’ll find many reputable sources have indeed used the term “sexual assault” to describe what happened.
One more thing…..
A keyword being missed here is “intent”. You’ll find the word “intimate” correlated with that in plenty of places.
I’m curious how many of the above “skeptics” are women. I’m guessing none. Gentlemen, the reason these events are not immediately brought to light is that the victims fear repercussions, loss of wages, societal stigma, and their predators. The reason a strong man has to actually fight to get a woman where he wants her is because women fight hard to keep from being raped. And the reason you get to sit there and be smug and skeptical is because you’re a dude. Please…act like a man and show some empathy.
Thank you, MLBTR, for posting this. Here’s praying that this is a movement of actual change.
Both sides deserve the benefit of the doubt until there are confirmed facts
So you’d be cool if your team assumed Sano’s innocence and traded 3 tip prospects for him today?
Assuming his guilt would be the fault of the Twins.
I’m pretty sure she even said the only reason she came forward now was because the Twins already pulled her companies credentials. It’s sad that that’s what it took for her to feel safe and sharing her story
so you just assume hes guilty for what reason? She said it happened? So you assume a woman does not have the ability to lie? Because that is the only real way to digest your comment and I , and ill be willing to guess many many others, find that disgusting and EXTREMELY dangerous. Screw innocent until proven guilty i guess, at least in your mind.
If this happened in a public area how could nobody notice it ? Not to mention he has a huge size advantage as someone said above. He could carry her over his shoulder like Tarzan and just carry her away easily
We need concrete facts not speculation. Both sides deserve to tell their story
Also, 10 minutes isn’t a short amount of time. Nobody saw him dragging this woman (or at least trying) for 10 minutes straight?
I must be reading it wrong. If I’m not wouldn’t Apple have some liability. Also it was her employer. I remain a sceptic but agree it needs to be heavily looked into
Apple was not her employer. She is a photographer.
I know she isn’t employed by Apple but if it was in their store. I wonder which Apple store? Mall of America has some bathrooms down some hallways but still should’ve been able to hear screaming
Ridgedale mall in Minnetonka.
This is real interesting….. Yankees do have an opening at 3rd and love diving into the morally discounted bargain bin.
If her account is the truth then I hope he is punished appropriately.
But how is a 6’4″, 260 lb man not able to pull a moderately sized woman (twitter.com/BitzyBetsy/status/904022919914942465) into a bathroom for 10 minutes? Not trying very hard I guess?
It’s also battery.
Something doesn’t make sense. If she screamed, in a busy mall, nobody looked, or did anything? Also, nobody saw her being dragged through a mall, and didn’t see it, or say anything, for 10 minutes? I find that hard to believe. Just what I think.
Also, HER employer, and HIS agent were their, and neither said “Hey maybe you shouldn’t do that”?
I don’t think it happened in a busy mall. I think you’re jumping to conclusions.
I think a whole lot of people on here are jumping to a whole lot of conclusions!
He has too much of a future to risk it in this woman. He can hit baseballs over 450 feet and yet struggled to drag a woman half his size around
Now if this is indeed true with proof then he needs to get the hammer to set an example. High profile people have gotten away with almost everything since the dawn of time and in that regard change is indeed needed
He’s not bigger than Mike Tyson, neither in size nor popularity. Are you saying Tyson couldn’t have possibly raped anyone because he had too much going for him?
Glad to see Donald Trump is posting in the MLB Trade Rumors comments now in between twitter rants. Let me guess, you agree there was violence on BOTH sides in Charlottesville earlier this year?
Leave it from someone from Philadelphia to drag Trump into this. He’s got nothing to do with this incident. As much as I HATE the guy, give it rest, Hillary lost and all of us who didn’t vote for Trump have 3 more years to deal with it.
If you think for 1 second that Charlottesville didn’t have violence on both sides you are not only 100% wrong but naive and need to start selling what you’re smoking.
Also, as a Phillies Phan, you are high off your duff if you think they will compete in 2018. I’m guessing you also believe that the Orioles will trade Machado to the Phils for Franco and Joseph. After that, I’m sure you think he will sign a long term extension for league minimum as well?
I bet you also think that Santa never got snowballs thrown at him at an Eagles game either right? Thanks man, I needed a good laugh.
There was violence on both sides. If you deny that, you’re moronic. The police said that there was 100 percent violence on both sides. They arrested several protestors armed with bats and ice picks. You’re denying official police reports now?
I’m sure there was violence on both sides, but does that make them equivalent? There was violence on both sides of both world wars, but that doesn’t mean each side was equally culpable, does it? If one side is advocating for racism and bigotry, they’re kinda in the wrong, don’t you think?
Both sides are wrong. The white supremacists are idiots, and so are the leftist Antifa thugs. One side advocates for an all white nation, and the other beats and attacks people demonstrating peacefully (no matter how vile their ideas are). Plus Antifa will call anyone a bigot and racist to excuse their assaults on people such as Ben Shapiro or milo yiannapolous. White supremacists are in the wrong, and so are the people who attack people using racism as an excuse.
I think that’s a dangerous road to go down, throwing anti-racism protesters and racists in the same bucket. I can see how that feeds your narrative, though.
Maybe there were a few bad actors on the anti-racism side, but what they are protesting against (racism and bigotry) is 100% correct.
Maybe there were only a small number of bad actors on the white supremacist side, but what they are demonstrating for (a racist ideology) is 100% wrong.
You don’t equate the two. It’s incredibly disingenuous.
“One side advocates for an all white nation, and the other beats and attacks people demonstrating peacefully”
Are you describing the same side here? It’s a bit confusing. Because the white supremacists advocate for an all white nation. They also beat and attack people demonstrating peacefully, like the white supremacist who drove his car into a crowd of people killing one person and wounding a lot more.
The way you put it makes it sound like you don’t think the white supremacists are attacking anyone.
I’m not just talking about Charlottesville. What about SF? Where they attacked a prayer rally? Or Berkeley, where they attacked Milo? Do you support them attacking people like Milo or Ben Shapiro? And no, since a lot of them are communists, their ideology is Not right. Shutting down one groups right to speech because you don’t like it is much More dangerous than a white ethnostate that will never happen. and what Is my narrative? That free speech needs to Ben defended? And the police said at Charlottesville, Berkeley, SF, And Boston that the leftist protestor said were the ones who started the violence.
Jesus, you’re in Russia, aren’t you? I’ve been arguing with a Russian troll like an idiot. Ugh.
Lots of typos and grammatical errors indicating English isn’t your first language.
Check.
Making stuff up to ratchet up tensions and encourage political divide?
Check.
Example:
“What about SF? Where they attacked a prayer rally?”
The prayer rally in question never happened. It was cancelled. In part because one of the organizers (Kyle Chapman, 41) was jailed after video evidence emerged of him beating a counter-protester over the head with a club.
I’m not russian tf? I’m from California. The typos are because my phone is an iPhone 4. You’re crazy. Russian trolls is the best you could come up with? You’re loony. “Everyone I disagree with is a Russian bot.” Maybe you should learn that not everyone agrees with your high and mighty ideas. Idiot. Oh btw the prayer rally was cancelled because Antifa said they would attack it with violence. Kyle chapman hit that protestor over the head because he and two others were attacking a trump supporter. Why don’t you just admit and say you’re against free speech? Because that’s what you’re talking like.
LOL! idk man why was she “too close” to the action? Something not adding up here.
How do you investigate something over 2 years old?
I know. You would have to go off of witness, if you can find who witnessed it, or security camera footage, but I don’t know how long they keep security camera footage data. It’s possible by now, they may have lost/deleted the footage from the date she said this occurred. I highly doubt there is any scars from physical assault, if Sano just grabbed her by the wrist.
by trying
How do you “try” with so little to work with? This happened 2 years ago. Not last week. All they would have to work with is what witnesses say, if there was any, or if any remember if they saw it, or security camera footage, but since that was 2 years ago, it’s likely there isn’t any available.
Its simple
If he did it banned for life, civil suit for trauma and damages, and he should do time.
If she is lying loses her job immediately, banned from working anything sports related ever again, forced to pay for damages, and issues a public apology.
Personally, her story is fishy.
“I asked my boss where it was and pointed to the door we just walked thru. Apparently I was too close, and the athlete took that as a signal that I wanted him to grab me and try to take me back thru that door
So your boss didnt see any of this or hear any of this? 10 minutes and he just what went for coffee?
She said the two witnesses who saw, had something to lose if they say something about it. The agent is going to protect his client, even if he saw it happen. Same thing happened with Weinstein. People protected him even though he was doing it for years and they knew about it.
The guy who does the auto signings is still going to want to have Sano and others sign at his place.
They have something to lose, which is why victims and witnesses choose not to speak up.
THIS^^^^
What about the people in the store? What about the fact that sano is a giant yet it supposedly took him ten minutes to drag her into a bathroom? Let’s wait until some evidence is shown before we start to crucify sano.
From the sounds of it, it didn’t happen in the store, but I could be wrong.
Yes. That would make it not believable. That would have been reported immediately.
Dani has changed agents since this happened. If I was this agent, I would’ve been bitter about him leaving after I got him his giant signing bonus, his movie deal and got him to the majors only to be tossed aside for Jay-z. I wouldn’t be bitter enough to lie. I would never be that bitter. I would be bitter enough to tell the truth though. I think what his former agent says will be the most telling to this whole story.
I agree with your sentiments here, but I think it is a double standard to not send her to prison if she is lying.
1 0 M I N U T E S
Has she been to the police? It’s one thing to jump on social media about it, but it’s clearly something that should be investigated by the proper authorities.
10 minutes is a LONG time to be in a struggle.
wait a minute, Sano grabbed her wrist and “forced” her to go to an Apple store with his agent and her employer? So she couldn’t do anything not to go?
Need my yanks to scoop him up for the low
Im just gonna say, I lost all respect for Sano after he started a brawl against the Tigers and punched Matt Boyd just last season. Now, as for these allegations, well Im trying my best to withhold judgement until MLB investigates. I doubt his career will be done even if its found to be true, but ugh reading the allegations made my stomach turn.
Now, in this case, I just wonder if anything was caught on film, maybe theyll be able to find footage to backup the claims.
Is it just me or do these things always seem to come out in December?
As others have said, the “solid 10 minutes” thing is dampening the credibility of her story, BUT, it’s quite possible she just wasn’t using her words carefully and was just saying how it felt. 10 minutes is an absolute eternity
Sometimes I wish someone comes up with a method to stun all our d except only when we are in bed with our loved ones who are consenting.
It is depressing just to read this nonsense on a daily basis, can’t imagine having to actually suffer this treatment on a daily basis.
I’d bet they have security cameras at Apple Stores. This should be an easy claim to validate or not.
But this is 2 years ago. Who knows if they even still have the security camera footage from then.
Convenient.
With all due respect why does everyone report the allegations in Twitter, why not go to the police first if a crime was committed?
Because we live in a society where people witch hunt and assume without concrete evidence (ie. religion)
Because currently the court system favours the accused because the victim/accuser has to provide overwhelming evidence to prove the accused is guilty, and not the other way around
Not to mention presumption that victims that blame are predominately usually lying
She also mentioned she said if she came forward at the time, she was afraid her job would be lost.
I mean there should be a considerable amount of evidence to convict someone no?
Right, if we’re talking about giving someone a criminal offense
But we’re not in the court of law, its the public eye, trying to curb unwanted behaviour towards individuals we should be treating as equals, not as objects we do as we please
Usually when it comes to these stories, the accused very rarely give their side of their story and the accuser gives a very detailed account. Its hard to believe the accused when so little evidence is given.
Already you see comments bemoaning we cant even go up to a girl and kiss her without her consent, and her account is very clear in stating consent was not given and it continued. Thsi kind of response is the exact reason why someone would not come forward at the time of the incident 2 years ago because the climate would nearly be as kind to her.
There could be many reasons why she didnt go the police, many of which would include she probably didnt think she would be believed, and maybe she didnt want to charge Sano of assault, and perhaps because she would have this cloud over her she would be let go.of her job
So you would just believe any woman saying anything? Even if an innocent man burns in the court of public opinion? You’re messed up in the head if you believe that.
I didn’t say nor assume he was guilty, but I can’t assume he’s innocent either
Sano gave a statement and it didn’t really give anything besides him outright stating it never happened
Problem is, how do prove who is right or wrong in this situation if they were both alone,
This is false. The court system does not favor any party. It favors justice. Overwhelming evidence is also not the standard, especially outside of court, where this will likely be dealt with.
It favors Justice ? Yea ok! It’s not what you know as a fact, but what you can prove in a court of law ! That’s the only thing that matters in court
and a lot of the time it has nothing to do with Justice !
That’s the whole point of the courts. The burden of proof is on the accuser not the accused. A man accused won’t have to lift a finger unless the accuser has some evidence.
Then don’t you see how its so difficult for a victim to prove they’ve been wronged, especially to the public in the past even now? If there are no witnesses, just victim accounts, how are they supposed to prove beyond a reasonable doubt they’ve been assaulted if they’ve just got their word. That’s why so many victims don’t forward, because the burden is on them to prove and our automatic assumption is PROVE IT. And as a result, a potential victim gets ostracized for not having enough evidence except for their word. Hence their silence, they are afraid they don’t get taken seriously
The alternative is to put the innocent in jail. Pure evil.
If she would have reported it in 2015, Trevor Plouffe would have knocked Sano’s lights out! Maybe the Twins can bring back Plouffe to replace Sano when we get rid of him. Maybe part of a platoon with some lefty.
twitter.com/trevorplouffe/status/94642278620500787…
Horrible what happened to her if proven true. Twins offense is going to be really bad without their best hitter.
Her account of the story makes absolutely no sense. I am interested to hear a refined statement and other statements from people mentioned in it.
The other thing that bothers me about her account is the drama of it. Why call him “the athlete” until the end, like it’s some sort of form allegation, and then pop a name at the end like an M Night Shyamalan tale
She said she believed people would stop reading it once they knew who it was. So if she said it at the beginning, they wouldn’t read what he did. This doesn’t apply to all people, of course, but I’m sure that would be the case for some.
That seems like flimsy reasoning, at best. Once it’s released every headline is gonna say his name in the headline
Right, but just because the media does it that way doesn’t mean she had to do it that way as well.
Right. But not doing it that way just makes the story read as dramatic… and coming across as wanting drama from your account isn’t going to lend itself to credibility.
At best, she was incredibly naive to think her story would get published with not having the name revealed until the end. At worst… she picked an athlete to accuse.
Like I said earlier I tend to pretty much always lean towards believing the accusers – but not 100% of the time. There are a few things in her story that are concerning enough to cast doubt in what she’s alleging
Can’t say I know why she did it the way she did. And I won’t choose to assume one way or another about it. It’s her story to tell and she can tell it in whatever way she needs to.
note: that does not mean she’s allowed to make stuff up. That’s not what I mean by “tell it whatever way she needs to.” Just in case someone tries to make that assumption with my statement.
I’m not saying he’s guilty or innocent. But I do not like the idea that someone can come forth with such serious allegations 2 years after the fact. One of the problems in society today. I would think if the situation was as severe as she states… she would have gone through the legal process immediately. Wow
To anyone questioning her story based on the lack of witnesses, how many parking lot arguments have you witnessed in your life? How many of those did you just walk past because it’s “none of your business?” If she wasn’t screaming bloody murder, which she almost certainly wasn’t for the same reasons why she didn’t say anything about it until now, people can and will ignore it. It sounds like very little of the incident happened in public and more so in places off to the side / out of the way, so if there were any witnesses, they were likely alone or in small numbers. Rather than always question the accuser for not saying anything, take a minute and think about the overwhelming number of witnesses that didn’t say anything. They weren’t close friends, family, etc, they were strangers. If they didn’t say anything as it was happening, they’re sure not going to say anything after the fact with only a vague recollection to go on.
If you see something, say something. It’s never someone else’s job. If you keep walking, you’re the reason why so many victims stay quiet.
Yes, but her employer, and his agent were in the store with them. Also, her boss was there right before he grabbed her arm: “As we got outside, the athlete decided he needed to use the restroom. I asked my boss where it was and pointed to the door we just walked thru. Apparently I was too close, and the athlete took that as a signal that I wanted him to grab me and try to take me back thru that door.” After she started screaming for help, her boss could not have been that far away, to at least go and check to see why she was screaming.
To me, it seems her boss heard and did nothing. Why? Sano has been to his store multiple times for auto sessions, he doesn’t want to lose that business and possibly the business of other athletes who also sign there.
Pretty easy for him to look the other way. Not right, but not really surprising.
Funny, I got my butt kicked by both parties trying to break up a man and woman fighting in a parking lot….She by far got the best licks in
Is this stealth advertising for Apple and their latest iphone?
Seriously. Who just goes to the apple store to hangout. I only go there to scream at somebody until they fix my phone for free.
I hate when people spell through as thru. Pulling someone through a door is not the same as a drive-thru.
Agreed.
And I hate when people use Sox in their username without identifying Red or White.
Was this the same day the Red Sox brought the Apple watches ?
If it wasn’t, it was most likely the same store.
if true, he should be banned for life.
Seriously? EVEN if this is true you think a grab on the wrist means ban him from baseball? C’mon now
Umm did you read the account? If true it sounds much more like a pronged sexual assault and attempted rape then a grab on the wrist. If this is true which I have no reason to disabelive this woman, then Sano should be placed on the permanently ineligible to play list for life.
You and others like you are the reason for problems in society today. “I have no reason to (sic) disabelive this woman”. Really? Explain why.
Do you think it’s ok to accuse people without any facts and then that gets posted in the media where the accused is judged by the court of public opinion. Again, you and others like you are the big problem in society today. In today’s society accusations are being treated as facts, they’re not. However, as they say, once the mud is thrown it sticks.
Your “you are the problem” is so tired and played out. I’d say the far bigger problem is conservatives who cannot empathize or identify with victims until it happens to them or someone they know directly.
This woman told friends at the time of the reported assault by Sano, as did the accusers of Roy Moore, as did the accusers of then real estate guy Donald Trump. Short of documented video evidence, this is about as solid proof as you can get that something did indeed happen and was memorable and affecting enough for someone to confide in friends about it.
I’d say the bigger problem is violent rapist. Based on the facts and statistics it’s pretty uncommon for someone to want to be the pretend victim of sexual assualt. Sano is probably guilty.
Doesn’t anybody believe in “hush money” anymore?
And she was so traumatized it took 2 1/2 years to come forward…
On twitter.
If she had come forward right away how do you think things would have gone? Mostly likely a lot of Twins fans would say she’ll looking for a quick paycheck, she probably would have taken a hit in her career as the Twins wouldn’t want her around them and she probably wouldn’t have gotten good references. Then there’s the whole emotional trauma.
I have a friend who was assaulted 30 years ago and she’s still not completely over it.
….on Twitter no less. Apparently we’re living in an age when every tweet is an ironclad statement of fact that shouldn’t be questioned.
Yes, so traumatized, and humiliated, and fearful, that she tells about it on Twitter.
It has been well established why many victims of crimes– particularly ones committed by powerful people– stay quiet for a long time. More women feel comfortable coming forward now because there is safety in numbers: they are more likely to be heard and taken seriously in this climate than ever before.
I have known women who were victims of assault, and completely understood their reasons for wanting to stay quiet at the time, and completely understood why they chose to come forward when they did.
Your response and mentality, and those of other commenters here, are exactly why a lot of women never speak up. They fear reprisal from those who don’t believe them, or suspect an ulterior motive. They fear they will not be believed, and instead be marked and disgraced, adding insult to injury (literally).
We should withhold judgement of both parties until there is an investigation.
I don’t know why I’m even shocked that the majority here are making gross comments. Why don’t people come out right away? It’s traumatic. It’s embarrassing. It’s scary. It can cost you a lot of things. You will be doubted. The list is endless as to why people don’t come out right away when assaulted. Shame on ALL of you that decide victim blaming is an appropriate response to assault allegations. False reports happen, sure but none of the majority of people WANT to be in the spotlight for BS like this and if you actually believe that to be the case, you have problems yourself.
Consider this my applause.
Isn’t all of that true 2 1/2 yrs later?
How on Earth does a comment, stating obvious biological differences get moderated out? I simply said, if a 6’4” 260 pound man tried to drag anybody anywhere it wouldn’t take 10 minutes? Fact. Sanó could drag Mauer around target field in that time.
Because you dared question the narrative
Because you’re desperate for reasons to discredit the woman. We don’t know exactly what happened just yet, so hard to say either way.
At least MLB will investigate the matter before passing judgement and punishment. If Sano was an actor or host of a news program, he’d be fired already.
I am simply confused how this occured while both Sano’s agent(his lawyer) and the alleged victims employer were present. I would sue my employer before Sano because they seem to have facilitated this. One has to imagine any competent lawyer and media executive would have never allowed their employees to be put in this situation.
Agreed but also speaks to it not happening the way she describes it.
The agent’s job is to protect his players, reporting what he saw could lead to other players not wanting to sign with him. The employer possibly feared losing future business with the Twins or was asked by the woman to say nothing as she wasn’t able to say anything at the time.
You’re naive, then. This sort of thing happens ALL the time. Agents, employers, and employees of famous, wealthy, and powerful men cover up for them all the time, even when they witness the act (and do nothing).
There’s a lot to question here, a lot to be skeptical of, but this is perhaps the least surprising part of it.
2 years later come on this is a joke of it was that serious she should have spoken up immediately
I am also skeptical of this story. A) It probably felt like 10 mins and could have been more like two. B) Why wait a single hour, day, month, year…2 years to say anything? C) How in world would there be anyway to prove her wrist was a bit sore 2 years after the fact?
This idea that if a victim doesn’t come forward right away they’re making it all up just rings so hollow. If that’s your default assumption it says a lot about you.
I’m very happy for you. You clearly have lived a charmed life where nothing traumatic happened in your past that you feared talking about for any possible reason.
I find it suspect she took so long to come forward
I find it even more suspect that MLBTR deleted my earlier Posts about her Blog back in 2008. Then, she deletes her Blog. Nice Job, Tim Dierks…
thats interesting
Exactly, her deleting the blog is suspicious, and mlbtr has been deleting most comments we questioning the story or saying how he deserves due process
Right, it’s not like receiving a ton of hate-fueled messages would be unsettling in a situation like this.
And what was her blog about?
Her taking creeper pictures of baseball players butts. Imagine if a male did that to female athletes………….
I guess the obvious question is why wait 2 1/2 yrs?
I do think we should hold off on any judgement till we know more. Its not unheard of for some women to make stuff like this up or embellish for gain. Not saying that happened here, but it has to be a consideration
That said, its very possibly true given the nature of some athletes who feel they can get away with anything, and the fact her employer seemed uninterested in intervening suggests her coming forward at the time might have risked her job. Maybe her employer has changed so she is free to pursue this.
I guess Manfred will be all over this.
I don’t know what’s worse: this girl’s story or the bunch of buffoons on this thread that think it’s legitimate. So this girl was assaulted and she waits almost two to three years to tell? Why not report him to the cops the same day? lol.
Ladies and gentlemen, a witness has come forward! He is here to exonerate Mr. Sano with his eyewitness testimony.
Speak, BronxBomber7! What did you see happen between Mr. Sano and the plaintiff that day?
Stand in a woman’s shoes someday, just for one day, my friend.
I have a close friend who is sexually assaulted by a priest more than once in 1982, he didn’t tell anyone until he was 33, if you ask him that question he would punch you in the face
(if you asked him why he didn’t report it)….He never reported it
If only she’d snapped some pictures of the act.
need a statue of limitations on these cases. 3 day maximum. 12 hour maximum on cases where body fluids are involved.
There’s already statutes of limitations in criminal cases. There aren’t statutes of limitations on news stories.
not all cases
Name the exceptions
Rape, for one. Many states have no statute of limitations for rape.
Ok. I’m tired of all these statements implying it can’t be true because she waited. So let’s try looking at a case study.
Terry Crews was assaulted more than a year ago and he only recently said what happened publicly. He himself said he didn’t entirely know what to do after the incident because he “feared retaliation.” For those of you who don’t know who Crews is, he is an extremely large muscle bound former football player who looks like any punch he throws could land you in a coma. So if a guy like him could be assaulted and he felt compelled to wait don’t you think others would as well.
They might. They might not. It’s strength of character, not physical strength that matters. Waiting or not waiting does not establish truthfulness. Unfortunately, waiting makes it harder to prove, or disprove. For the person pointing, there will always be the feeling that people doubt them because it was harder to provide proof when they came forward, and why did they wait. For the person being pointed at, they will never be able to fully disprove what they are accused of, even if it never occurred. If it did occur, waiting allows the opportunity for others to be victimized. Waiting casts doubts both ways.
Alot of people also fail to grasp this paaage of time that has passed doesnt prove he was right either
By saying Sano statement is innocent, that means the accuser is wrong
The right stance is say you will wait to pass judgement until further evidence is presented to make am ore educated stance. Right now the accuser has give a very detailed account of the events, and Sano has denied the event has even happened. I will not assume either party is correct at the moment and trust the MLB will conduct a fair and swift investigation.
He should run for the Senate or President… then it’s OK.
That was funny.
Bottom line here…the matter of due process. It is up to legal authorities and the courts to determine if a crime has been committed. If this accusation has been made to the police, it is up to them to investigate and determine if there is enough evidence to warrant an arrest. That is when the matter becomes public record. It is inappropriate for a person’s employer to make such potentially damaging public statements at this point.
tell ezekial elliott that
Sano means no
I do not believe a word she says.
It’s too soon to judge one way or the other, but I can see how YOU would say that.
What was the reason for changing the article title to remove “Sexual”?
I decided to change it because I’m not an expert on the legal definitions of sexual assault, and it was pointed out to me that Minnesota may use different terminology. I should have erred on the side of caution from the start. When I wrote the original headline, it was not an attempt to exploit the situation for clicks. I felt that was the best term to describe what happened. I’ve since taken in a lot of opinions here on whether that was indeed an accurate term, and I agree that it’s better to be more careful not to overstep the bounds of Bissen’s account.
Thanks for the explanation, Tim. This is why MLBTR is a site I will always frequent.
Her account iis clearly sexual assault. I thought this was a news site? Show some balls dierkes!
Because he was not accused of sexual assault. He was accused of assault and battery, false imprisonment, and being a flat out creep. But not sexual assault.
Thanks PA!
Did you not see Tim’s comment where he stated that he asked her if she felt it was a sexual assault and she said “yes”?
Do yourself a favor and check out Jeff Passan’s article on this, then consult an actual lawyer who can school you on what constitutes sexual assault. And try to keep in mind that these are accusations, not charges.
Will be interesting what MLB does here, because its a classic he said/she said.
But beyond this case, the best advice would be to never flirt with anyone anymore. It could be considered sexual harassment. Next time you single baseball nerds go on a date and try to get a kiss at the end of the night, just don’t do it.
I think a full investigation is warranted, including but not limited to:
-tracking both parties whereabouts that evening
-interviewing all parties involved, and their associates.
-requesting any contemporary records and accounts of both parties
Things that could be learned– are there records that might confirm or contradict her account? Texts or emails or messages from the accuser to friends at the time making the accusation privately? Does Sano have any texts or phone records that might contradict her claims of his movements that night? Does anyone at the Apple Store recollect seeing them together, and if so, did any unusual behavior occur?
While it’s possible it could wind up being a simple he said/she said, there may be ways to back up or disprove her accusations.
I’d love to see a Venn diagram with the intersection between disbelievers of Roy Moore’s accusers and disbelievers of Miguel Sano’s accuser. It’s probably close to two perfectly overlaid circles.
I had a friend who felt the same way about allegations made years later. In his eyes, if a woman made an accusation so long after the fact, it was hogwash. “She should have said something at the time. Typical gold-digger,” he’d say.
Then one day his girlfriend got sexually harassed by her boss. He asked me what he thought they should do. I said “tell Human Resources, either directly, or through an anonymous channel.”
He said his girlfriend feared being fired because the boss was powerful. She decided to be quiet about it, not say anything, because she needed her job. She discretely found a way to be transferred to another department.
A few months went by and apparently another woman at the same office confided in her that this same man had harassed HER, and that several other women had been harassed in the past, over the course of years, and not said anything for the same reason my friend’s girl didn’t speak up.
Together and separately, 5 women made accusations, because with greater numbers, they felt comfortable that they’d be heard and believed, rather than laughed at, fired, or labeled liars.
My friend feels very differently about women making late accusations these days.
I am not saying this isn’t completely legit because it probably is. But women make false accusations too, look up the Rodney Andersen(OU football RB) situation that just happened. He was almost charged with sexual assault before the ladies friend proved that she was lying to come up. It happens. It all happens. The truth needs to be proven one way or another.
Great point! I am familiar with the Rodney Anderson story too. Perfect example of why it’s a good reason to not hang someone before all the information is out. I agree with you as well that Sano could be guilty, but I have a few questions about the story that I would prefer to have answered first.
If you know how low the percentage is of false accusations relative to real ones … it’s something on the order of 2 percent. Not saying it doesn’t happen, and there should always be a certain amount of skepticism with any accusation no matter the seriousness. But for anyone to be dismissive of the 98 percent of legitimate complainants because there’s a 1 in 50 shot that this is false is inappropriate, IMO.
you’re telling me there’s a chance…?
Yes, false accusations happen, but for every false accusation there are dozens of unreported true accusations. In a court of law, it’s definitely innocent until proven guilty, but in most cases I’m inclined to believe the accusers, because the overwhelming majority of accusations prove to be true.
Remember a few weeks ago, Louis CK’s fans all defended him, claimed the allegations weren’t true, and attacked his accusers as “opportunists.”
Then CK admitted and confessed to it, and said “it’s all true.”
What is also true is that celebrities, from comedians to politicians to athletes– have a fanbase that is wide and vocal and will defend their idol no matter the charge, no matter the evidence, and ruthlessly attack anyone who stands against them.
Which is precisely why these often women choose to stay silent for so long.
And Louis CK publicly denied it not just once, but at least twice. One many months before he finally admitted it.
False allegations have no impact on what I said. Many people– men and women– make false allegations of all sorts all the time..
But in cases of sexual harassment, rape, or against wealthy and/or powerful people, the fact that someone stays quiet should not be seen as an assumption of falsehood.
Any claim of a criminal nature should be *investigated* on the assumption that it is true (which is different from a legal prosecution where they are innocent until proved guilty).
That’s called having a predetermined outcome. That got us duke lacrosse. A real investigation follows the facts and only the facts, and does not speculate upon a conclusion until the fact she can support a conclusion.
Love this comment. Regardless of whether anyone thinks women SHOULD wait to report sexual assault or harassment, it’s a well-documented fact that it happens all the time for numerous reasons. I’m not saying this woman is telling the truth–I have no idea–but to say her account isn’t credible because she waited too long to report it is just stupid. That’s the least surprising part of her story.
An investigator would listen to a story like that and deduce that something happened. Not necessarily as she recalls, but something. Victim testimony tends to be way bigger than reality, especially with the perception of time. Pulling on her wrist for ten seconds probably feels like a solid ten minutes. The song Wild Horses is ten minutes long but I sincerely doubt this incident was that long. That doesn’t mean it’s fabricated, just that the details victims honestly try to recall tend to be awfully exaggerated and unreliable.
The song wild horses isn’t ten minutes long, that’s my low quality iPhone app editing
Shame on his agent, if he did hear screaming and did nothing about it.
In fairness to Sano, it should be fully investigated. But if the claims are legitimate, then action should be taken. It’s disturbing so many comments here start with tearing down the woman. i have a daughter, and if she came home with that I’d be pretty darn angry. There’s a big difference between flirting and wrenching, dragging, and twisting, and my guess is that most of us know that difference. We ought to act like it.
Would you have done something about it or let it slide? Because I believe she told her family. Just a question
No offense taken. Obviously, it depends on the age of the daughter in question. Children need to be looked after by adults. Assuming she was an adult, we would talk about it and in the end, I’d support her wishes.
And whose decision would it be to report that? She would be the one to file charges, and if she wasn’t ready to do that, why would a family member or friend dishonor her wish by coming out with it publicly?
“He finally gave up after a solid ten mins of trying to pull me through that door.”
Total exaggeration at best, if not a complete lie.
Sexual assualt is now the hot topic; too many band wagon jumpers for me to take any claim seriously until it is proven… where thete is smoke thete is usualky fire; so let the investigation unearth the truth
Where there is smoke there is usually fire? Just like duke lacrosse? Just like rolling stone fraternity scandal? Careful…
all sano did is talk to a lady for 10 minutes and now they want to put him in jail….thanks harvey and all you libs……i asked a lady at work if she wanted a cup of coffee cause i was getting one…just being polite… and she told me to stop hitting on her…of should would say i was harrassing her true story the world gone nutts
Poor you. This isn’t totally made up.
a lady was eating a hot dog at the game last night…i asked her was it tasty…she told me to get lost freak and dumped her beer on my head..,,,,,im not talking to woman anymore cause i might get thrown in jail….one time i said skunk and the lady thought i said scank,,,she slapped my face,,,,and my tooth fell out onto the floor and i went to plck it up…she then kicked cause she thought i was looking up her dress….true story……
Hope they can put your tooth back in
Comment, comment, comment.
Comment! Comment!
anger managememt.. anger management….lighten up dude …having a little fun to lighten things up its the holiday season….as for a comment sano is innocent….
I don’t know what happened. I wasn’t there. But I know enough about how this stuff works. She says he was overpowering her and kissing her or what not for 10 straight minutes. He says nothing happened. The truth is almost certainly somewhere in between. Unfortunately after about ten minutes (let alone two years) eyewitness testimony beyond a couple most basic facts is mostly garbage. If you’ve ever had a rapidly evolving unexpected situation come up that was on camera, you’ll see how bad you are at recounting what you’d swear up and down happened. Time gets terribly distorted and it’s almost impossible to remember more than a couple of details.
And rape culture keeps rearing its ugly head. If this is true, it is one more example of men using their power to dominate and control women.
This has what to do with rape?
Tom the troll.
Then tell me what it has to do with rape?
Oh, I don’t know, it’s not like rape and forced intimate contact are correlated.
Again, not the standard. It’s black or wire her. Did he touch her intimate parts? She does not claim he did. That he did not touch her intimate parts is an undisputed fact unless she changes her story. He has been accused of assault and battery.
Do you understand what intent is, Tom?
Trying to force kisses on someone could be considered a forced intimate act. And then there’s that little part about trying to drag her into the bathroom.
Rape culture doesn’t have to include actual rape. It’s the fact that so many men expect to not be told no or completely ignore the word no. There is so much entitlement amount men (I am a man). They think women exist for their pleasure. Why do we have to tell girls to cover up, even something as basic as their shoulders? I saw an article about that sometime this year. A school shamed a girl because her shoulders were showing and it made the boys think things. Seriously?
I know lots of women who love forearms, but they don’t have to be told to control themselves. And the boys sure aren’t told to cover them up because the girls might think things.
Entitlement among men*
What a shameful display of generalizing an entire group of people.
Take it as you will. I didn’t say all men abuse women, but what we teach young girls says something about society. You cannot ignore that or try to sweep it under the rug.
We don’t teach those same things to boys (cover up, don’t walk alone at night). It shows that many men are incapable of controlling themselves.
I think that stories like these on this site should have the commons locked
Comments****
Why do all of these accusers not come out until years later?
Why do you lack empathy? Being able to put yourself in someone else’s shoes is a major component of being rational and understanding other people’s motivations.
“…him to grab me and try to take me back thru that door.” Seems a bit rapey.
QUITE the leap you are making. Seems a bit “murdery” too.
Stop trolling, Tom.
You just don’t have response. This is not my opinion, it’s just a matter of law. What sano is accused of is terrible, and criminal. But it fis not sexual assault. There is no ambiguity here.
I do have a response. And when I have responded to your posts on this article asking thoughtful questions, you have ignored them and moved on to trolling someone else.
Go find a bridge to hide under.
Tom is all air and no substance. It will be fun to see his reaction if MLB determines discipline is warranted, regardless of whether or not charges are brought against him.
Jeff Passan posted an excellent article on this incident, citing the opinions of current and former teammates, one of which referred to Sano as a “ticking timebomb” regarding his aggression towards woman.
That of course doesn’t make him guilty, and I’m sure Tom will attempt to spin this in a way that makes Sano look like the victim, but if his teammates are throwing him under the bus, it certainly doesn’t bode well for him.
That is not the legal definition of sexual assault.
He will very likely be disciplined, but not for sexual assault. He’s been accused of assault and battery, and sexual harassment, the latter of which is not a crime. If everything she says is true, I hope he does time for the crime of assault and battery.
Use your head, Tom. The alleged assault was him trying to kiss her and drag her into a bathroom. Have you even read her entire story?!
Both are women’s worst fears. And men raping/murdering women is way more common than the other way around (the other way around is just as terrible). As a man, I’ve never been afraid to walk alone at night. Every woman I know is, whether something has happened to them or not.
Any man pulling a woman against her will isn’t just doing it so he can have a nice quiet chat with her. Her first thought is he’s going to rape and/or murder me. Thankfully nothing further happened. As a man, if someone did that to me, I might think murder…but it probably wouldn’t be my first thought. Women are scared because they have very valid reasons to be.
Sano doesn’t have the stamina to struggle with anyone for ten minutes.
If she was afraid that nobody would believe her, why didn’t the girl try to get the video footage if this was inside the apple store? Kind of fishy that she was inside an apple store and none of the employees or customers tried to help her. Either she’s exaggerating or something else is up. Either way, if this did happen, hope she gets justice. In this current climate, I’m sure she will.
she didn’t want to be in apple store, but it’s not like she considered it an active kidnapping.
it wasn’t until he we trying to force her into bathroom that it was a problem, I’d guess. and by then prolly a little difficult to fight off a huge athlete AND get your phone out to record it
you can read more about it here:
google.com/amp/heavy.com/news/2017/12/betsy-bissen…
I just find the ladies story to have a response from one player (Trevor Plouffe) to be interesting…Sano deservingly took Plouffe’s position two seasons ago.