7:33pm: Dipoto told MLB.com’s Greg Johns at the GM Meetings that this morning’s reports were “clearly over-dramatized,” adding that the Mariners are “just too talented” to completely tear down the roster. That said, Dipoto also conceded that the Mariners are “open-minded to different ways we can get better” and expressed a desire to “re-imagine” the team’s roster while “gather[ing] as much talent as we can.”
Generally speaking, it seems as though the Mariners will be open-minded to moving shorter-term assets — Paxton and Zunino both have only two years of control remaining — while also trying to gather some controllable talent in order to supplement the pieces of the roster that remain into 2019 and beyond. The GM also suggested that the Mariners won’t rule out a reunion with Nelson Cruz, whom he called a “super human being” and a “wildly productive” player. But the team also has other needs, specifically in center field, Dipoto noted.
The column is rife with quotes from Dipoto on the offseason direction and the agile approach the Mariners will take toward offseason roster maneuverings and is worth a look for Mariners fans and those hoping that various Mariners players become available in trades.
10:48am: Facing a difficult path to improving their roster sufficiently to compete in the AL West, the Mariners are said to be weighing at least a partial sell-off of veteran assets. Jeff Passan of Yahoo Sports tweets that the organization is “considering a full-fledged teardown,” while Ryan Divish of the Seattle Times characterizes the situation as one in which the club will pursue the somewhat less dramatic path of “culling the roster of a few players who could actually bring back some younger talent to the organization” while also maintaining a competitive assortment of MLB players.
Whatever the precise course, it’ll be a fine line to walk, and one that’ll require deft handling from Seattle GM Jerry Dipoto. It’s worth noting that both reports emphasize the variability remaining in the situation. The M’s won’t simply be auctioning players off, it seems. Rather, the club is going to be demanding value. And as Divish notes, there’s also a strong countervailing wind to the concept of a rebuild. The goal, as Dipoto has himself stated recently, is to make a legitimate challenge for a World Series as swiftly as possible. Accordingly, it’s at least possible that the organization will prioritize near-to-the-majors talent over far-away, high-upside prospects.
Regardless, it’s an interesting shift in the market just as it gets underway. No doubt, the allure of the trade market is factoring into the thinking for the Mariners’ front office. That seems to be an element of the Indians’ decision to consider offers on some key veteran pitchers. The market side of the reasoning here isn’t altogether different, though it’s quite a different competitive picture for the Cleveland organization, which still has a very clear path to the postseason. With few top-end starters and relievers available for the highest bidder, there certainly could be some opportunities to achieve value.
All indications of late had been that the Mariners would consider to push to contend. There’s real talent on the roster, to be sure, and the club did just win 89 games even after a late-2018 tailspin. Certainly, the organization’s slate of contract commitments represents that of a contending team, with large and lengthy commitments to several players. Those same factors, though, also can easily be interpreted as supporting a different approach. The 2018 club arguably outperformed its true talent level and still finished 14 games out of first place in the AL West. And a crowded payroll situation makes it hard to imagine ready solutions to some of the team’s ongoing areas of need.
So, what players could be on the move? The premium assets will certainly draw the most attention, though they’ll also be the hardest to pry loose. James Paxton, Edwin Diaz, Mitch Haniger, Jean Segura, and Marco Gonzales all come with ample excess value in their control rights. Surely, it would require the right deal to part with any of these players. Of them, Paxton seems the likeliest to move, if only because the others are all controlled for at least four move seasons while he has just two left to go. Indeed, Divish indicates it’s quite likely the power lefty will be shipped out. Diaz is a fascinating potential piece on the market, as he’d easily be the most valuable relief asset available. The 24-year-old just turned in an outstanding season and his trade value was boosted by the fact that he barely missed out on Super Two qualification, which would have greatly increased his overall arbitration earning power. Haniger is likely the team’s most valuable piece, though he might also be the hardest to part with. Moving Segura’s contract might offer a means of both dropping salary and adding younger talent in one fell swoop. There’s really not much reason for the Mariners to consider dealing Gonzales, who is amply affordable and controllable (and also just agreed to an unusual new contract).
Several other players will also surely be of keen interest on the market. Veteran reliever Alex Colome is not as good, or as cheap and controllable, as Diaz, but he’d be quite an interesting alternative to the open market options for clubs needing late-inning relief talent. Several other bullpen assets could hold appeal as well. Backstop Mike Zunino has his limitations as a player, but he’s a talented defender with huge power. It would be rather challenging for the club to move its most expensive veterans, though perhaps contract-swapping arrangements of some kind can be imagined. Plenty of rivals would like to have Robinson Cano, Kyle Seager, Dee Gordon, and Mike Leake on their rosters, after all, despite their suboptimal recent track records, though certainly the remaining financial obligations would need to be sorted out somehow.
The possibilities, truly, are endless, and will depend in no small part upon precisely what Dipoto and co. are looking to accomplish. It could well be a matter of seeing what’s possible on the market, rather than setting out specifically to prioritize the addition of new talent, say, as opposed to shaving payroll. Given Dipoto’s history of dealmaking, it wouldn’t be surprising to see quite a few moves to re-shape the roster in the coming months.
cjp2929
Celebrate!
iverbure
Why would you celebrate? The Indians, d-backs and imo Rockies will be trying to do the same thing. It’s a buyers market again. Just like last offseason when expensive vets were going for .60 on the dollar. It’s a bad time to rebuild or sell right now
lowtalker1
Depends on your team
Rebuilding teams will get a boost
Knowthemarket
Take a look at the wider market. Pitching is desired by just about every competing team. Trades are a better option for teams like the Braves of have smaller budgets but deep farms.
Besides that, the Mariners have very little flexibility in their budget. This probably the move they needed to make last year.
Zack35
Trader Jerry is getting bored
mikeyank55
Too bad Robbie…no playoff potential in a career now marred by steroids. M’s fans have seen the best that you were. Going forward for the balance of the contract they will watch your continued decline e offensively and spotty d as you learn to play 1B and DH.
You will have a long wait for the HOF.
zwaves
Dipoto also conceded that the Mariners are “open-minded to different ways we can get better” and expressed a desire to “re-imagine” the team’s roster while “gather[ing] as much talent as we can.”
Interpretation: “I’m going to be trading my ass off to get this team better.”
Backup Catcher to the Backup Catcher
Tear it down; rebuild with prospects and check us out in 2021. Mariners have no other logical choice or they run the risk of becoming the newest version of the almost-good-enough-to-make-the-playoffs Angels…
weaselpuppy
Hey we won 90 games! ABANDON SHIP!
btw, Season Ticket Holders, get those deposits in!
jdgoat
Do you really want them to continue to be stuck in perpetual mediocrity though? The Astros are still the team to beat. The A’s look like they’ll be back again. The Angels still have a core that should be able to compete if they can somehow keep their pitchers healthy. I can see a way that the Mariners can compete, but there’s at least a decent chance that they’ll be in the exact same situation next year, which is on the outside looking in.
hiflew
Winning 89 games is mediocrity?
mdbaseball05
It is when you’re trying to compete in a division with the Astros and A’s, along with teams like the Yankees for the Wild Card. And, the Mariners aren’t getting better next year. Cano is declining, Felix is well past declining, and Cruz is gone now. Unless they are planning to spend a bunch in free agency, the time to sell was a couple of years ago.
jbigz12
The A’s don’t have a rotation. I’d be just as worried about the angels jumping a spot up. If the mariners are financially constrained there’s nothing you can do but rebuild though
mikeyank55
Hey flew….awful lot of money for Robbie’s decline. How many more years is he signed for?
The euphoria of his signing has faded. Gone are the fertile Cano years. They’ve been replaced with the sobering reality that Jay Z took your team’s management and now the new owners are stuck.
ayrbhoy
They won 89g w a 4 man rotation cuz Felix did squat!
usafcop
I agree with jbigz12….the A’s had a ton of things to their way this past season to win 90 plus games without an even decent rotation….I don’t see them winning more than 83-85 games next year….some guys past their prime (Cahill….Anderson and Jackson) had decent to good years….I highly doubt anyone on their level pitches that way in 2019….they have Manaea and that’s it….the Ms can easily catch them in 2019 with the right moves….but I don’t see them getting past the Astros…..and a healthy Angels team
#Fantasygeekland
It was 89, with a negative run differential indicating they were incredibly lucky just to reach .500… also they aren’t catching Houston so it puts them against TOR, TB, LAA, OAK, MIN for a 2nd WC spot to play against either NYY or BOS just to get to the alds… I don’t see any issues with building for the future at this point.
thelastonetodie
Min and tor aren’t competing for a wild card spot
#Fantasygeekland
No reason to say they can’t compete for a WC spot, sure they weren’t great last year, but they have the pieces in place to at least be in the convo. You can’t just say they won’t compete
its_happening
Toronto is not competing for a WC spot. Minnesota, if they were to spend wisely, could.
jbigz12
Minnesota is in sad shape too. They have a few nice players and tons of holes. They have no bullpen now. They have berrios and a couple of young arms but that team is far from a playoff team.
TBJ12
If Minnesota can compete Toronto sure can. Jays could have plenty of cash to spend if they decide to do so and should get help from a few of their top propects in 2019.
jbigz12
Agreed. Minn best shot at the playoffs is through their weak division but even at that the Indians are head and shoulders better. Minn is in rough shape in a lot of areas. Buxton and sano both regressed significantly. Kepler is an okay OF but he isn’t special by any means. You don’t have a good option at first or second. You have to hope sano can rebound to have a passable option at 3rd and they have no bullpen to speak of. It doesn’t look great.
mikeyank55
Hey nerd-where r they without Cruz?
hoof hearted
yep,
never give up, never surrender
iverbure
Never give up never surrender is a great sratgery if you want to try and miss the playoffs 20 consecutive seasons worked well for the Bluejays from 94 to 2015
muskie73
Seattle fans are disappointed that the Mariners have fallen short of the postseason every year since 2001.
But the Mariners don’t represent the worst franchise.
Each year the American League sends five teams to the postseason. Over the past three seasons Seattle has the fifth-best cumulative regular-season record in the league. The M’s may just be stuck in mediocrity.
braves25
I wonder what a package for Paxton would consist of? He could be a viable option for whoever doesn’t get Corbin or Kuechel!
Old User Name
His injury history will impact what teams are willing to give for him.
Knowthemarket
He pitched the most innings of his career this year at 160 and has never even come close to that before and he struggled in pitching those last two months of July and August. I don’t like the idea of giving up much for him, all though it might be kind of worth a laugh if they Braves offered the Mariners Gohora.
deweybelongsinthehall
Depends on their expectations. Paxton has only two years of control and has an injury history that will reduce the otherwise expected return.
MetsYankeesRedSox
Why can’t the Mets do this?
Good luck Mariners.
Danny B.
Because the Mets are 2-3 pieces away from contending.
Phil253
Same can be said for Seattle, but we have no farm system.
pojack
Mets system not great either
didi gregorious nose
Mets system is not bad either. Its Not great, but not bad, most of the talent has graduated recently but theres still some talent there.
camdenyards46
Mariners are closer to contention than the Mets.
didi gregorious nose
Negative mets are in a very winnable division you have the stos and the as to contend with plus trout and company wont suck forever
Dock_Elvis
I wouldn’t call the Mets division easily winnable…they’re looking up at Atlanta and a Philadelphia team that will likely improve even more over the winter.
jbigz12
The mariners are not any closer than the Mets. They have no help in the system coming up and no one in the system they can use a trade chip anymore. They’re financially pretty much maxed out as well. They were 89 win team with a ton of luck last year. If the Mets rotation is healthy and they add the right pieces they could be in the playoffs. Sadly, I don’t think the same is true for Seattle. They really need 2 SP’s to have a complete rotation because outside of Leake, Gonzales and Paxton there’s no one on their roster who should be starting for a playoff caliber team. Somehow they can’t find a starting caliber 1B. Arguably the easiest slot on the team to fill
drgme
That’s what I was about to say! I don’t know what “Juan” is talking about but as I knew it – both The Phils and The Braves beat that ass last season and WILL get better this coming season.
didi gregorious nose
If the mets make the right moves they can certainly compete with Atlanta, nats,and the phils. My point is this the mets have a better chance of winning the nl east thrn the Mariners winning the al west
costanza
Maybe 2-3 above average hitters and 2-3 decent bullpen pieces
User 4245925809
You left out a 1, as in front of the 2-3 and should have said “Mets are 12-13 pieces away from contenting”
Danny B.
John, you’re smoking crack. The Mets are FAR better than the Mariners.
Knowthemarket
Take a look at the wiser market. Pitching is desired by just about every competing team. Trades are a better option for teams like the Braves of have smaller budgets but deep farms.
Besides that, the Mariners have very little flexibility in their budget. This probably the move they needed to make last year.
lou gary scyrkels
true,, if their pitching holds up,, and don’t have a lot of injuries,, Mets are for real
metseventually 2
Thaaaaaaaaat’s not true
hoof hearted
but its not false, either
mikeyank55
Hey Danny—the Mets are one owner away from rebuilding.
Even with their used car former agent that overpromises the Wilpon’s are limited by their intellect and commitment.
Knowthemarket
You think at the end of the 2019 season Wagenen will be like; “I was just joshn’ ya Wilpon. Here’s your terrible team back.”
Danny B.
Brodie Van Wagenen should be going all in and working out trade scenarios that involve the Mets acquiring both Haniger & Segura. The Mets should build a package around Matz, Rosario, Alonso & other Top Prospects.
Danny B.
The Mets should also go after Diaz, HARD.
Danny B.
Diaz & Segura would be the best fit. Haniger should be a secondary plan.
MetsYankeesRedSox
That’s 4 posts in a row.
Take a breath!
Danny B.
That’s because I accidentally left Diaz off my original post.
Phil253
He’s excitable.
iverbure
And unrealistic
didi gregorious nose
Throw conforto in since hes from the pacific northwest. Matz, rosario, Alonzo, conforto to Seattle for haniger, diaz, and segura sounds fair.
mdbaseball05
The Mariners can probably get more trading each separately. All of those Mariners have more than 3 years of control left.
Danny B.
I’d rather have Conforto over Haniger. Let’s make it Matz, Rosario & Alonso for just Diaz & Segura. That too sounds fair.
didi gregorious nose
I like conforto but hes a lefty haniger would bring more balance to the line up.
Keep in mind
Mcneil
Bruce
Conforto
Nimmo
Are all lefty but am not giving conforto away
steelerbravenation
Why do we need Seguera ?????
I would say make a run at Zunino maybe a package with a reliever
hoof hearted
zunino would make mets staff even better
didi gregorious nose
Pass too streaky too many ks…
jdgoat
They’ll get a haul for the trio of Diaz, Haniger, and Paxton. Plus a lot for Segura. If they do sell off, their farm system would more than likely rival the White Sox, Rays, Padres etc.
#Fantasygeekland
I’d be really surprised if they ended up trading haniger or even Diaz with their club control, even though I think they should strongly consider it.
hoof hearted
a sell off, would be a sell out to the fans ; with the roster they have.
halos101
They would not have the depth of any of those farm systems even if they sell those 3. You’re underestimating just how hard it is to have that good of a farm system
jbigz12
Even with a massive sell off like that they wouldn’t have a top farm. It’s literally barren right now. They are #30 by a wide margin. That kind of sell off would stock it pretty well but I think it’d only be a fringe top 10 farm. Kyle Lewis is the only prospect down there right now
Stevil
Really, you think the Cubs, Red Sox, Royals, Giants, Diamondbacks, or even the Mets, have considerably better farms? Have you studied Julio Rodriguez? Did you know that Braden Bishop is a top=5 defensive center fielder whose bat came to life last season, or that Evan White is thee best defensive first baseman and made adjustments that resulted in a second half line of .320/.400/.512? Did you know that Seattle’s 2018 draft class collectively put up some of the best results in short-season ball? Kyle Lewis isn’t the only prospect the Mariners have.
Their farm is thin, no question. But barren? That’s too strong.
You also seem to be drastically undervaluing some of the likely available players, such as Paxton. He just threw 160 innings with 208 K’s and is still one of the top left-handed power arms in the game with two more years of control.
If they completely tore it down, yes, they probably would have a top farm. You’re forgetting that teams with the current top farms would be some of the teams trading top prospects to acquire current Mariners. They probably won’t do that, though. More likely that they’ll hold on to Diaz, Haniger, and Gonzales, and see what they can do with the rest. Paxton, Colome, Leake, Gordon, etc., aren’t going to give them a top farm, but would the returns be enough to have a solid team contending in 2021 or 2022? I think that is very much a possibility. By then they may have Lewis, Bishop, White, Mills, Gerber, and Warren contributing. Maybe even Gilbert and Raleigh.
The Mariners are going to be a fairly young team in short-order. They lack starting pitching and infield prospects in the upper-minors, but there’s no reason to think they couldn’t address those needs by moving some of the above mentioned names.
jbigz12
They lack everything. The few prospects they had they’ve dealt away for players. That’s nothing but a fact. All those prospects you listed every other team in baseball has guys like that. Better and more of them. You don’t like the reality of it but there’s no one down there. Kyle Lewis is the only guy who is anywhere close to being an impactful player. No I don’t think they’d be near the top after those trades. The marlins were equally as barren before their deals and they aren’t even close to a top farm. I suspect Seattle will do much better in their trades but it’s not enough to put them up there with the top farms in baseball. No depth, and maybe one impact player in the whole system. . And Paxton? Call me when he’s healthy. He’s never been healthy for a ful year. He’s a tremendous talent but you’re not going to get a haul for 2 years of a guy who has never tossed more than 160 innings. And that was his record for innings by a whole lot. You’ll get a couple nice prospects but there’s no way you can rebuild this system without dealing the likes of Haniger and Diaz.
jbigz12
And honestly Kyle Lewis as an impact player is not even close to a certainty. He hasn’t been performing at all. This is an empty system. Julio Rodriguez is in rookie ball. You might have a prospect there but he’s 17. We’ll take a wait and see approach with that. When your plucking guys out of rookie ball to talk up you know it’s just not there.
joedirte4life
If this is true the Braves could sure use a replacement for Markakis and Mitch Haniger would do that.
mj-2
Honestly Braves could kill two birds with one stone
Paxton and Haniger go the Braves then just sign Grandal and Kimbrel and be done with it
Braveslifer
I was just about to type the same thing!
camdenyards46
What would the return look like? Pache/Wright/Soroka/Contreras or something? It would have to be a lot:
mj-2
It would be a lot and I’d be ok with it being a lot
Those four you wrote and I’d add in Allard as well
Then maybe some smaller pieces to complement those five
I could stomach that if that’s what it cost truthfully
If they needed even more I might reconsider
braves25
Would it have to be a lot? Paxton is really good, but he also has injury history!
I do like the idea of adding Haniger and Paxton though! Paxton has definitely shown ace type stuff when healthy! Haniger could add 25+ hrs behind Freeman!
mj-2
It doesn’t have to be a lot and I’d be more than happy to give them less lol
But I’d be ok giving them a lot if that is what it took too
Even if we dealt the five I said above along with some smaller pieces the Braves would still have plenty of depth options available for the rotation
Pache would be expendable with the length of control Acuna and Haniger give
And it’d leave money to sign Grandal long term making Contreras more expendable as well
So the Braves really wouldn’t lose a whole lot when you consider the deal would either directly make those traded obsolete or indirectly in the case of Contreras where the deal would leave lots of money to sign a catcher of Grandals capacity via free agency
That’s my thought process anyway
Only person I’d be hesitant to part with in a deal with the Mariners would be Riley because right now he’s our best answer for third long term
jbigz12
No reasonable GM would expect anymore than 50 starts the next two years out of Paxton. Anything you get over that would just be gravy. I don’t think he’d command a serious haul. He’s very good when he’s healthy so he wouldn’t be very cheap but I think you’d look at that deal and think it was a crazy amount to give
Knowthemarket
Nice to see some Braves fans with common since. Not like other fans offering spare parts to get another teams best players.
In my mind, if you break it down, Haniger gets the greater draw, so Wright and Pache. and maybe a wild card. Paxton though, is going to cost you more than he should, I feel, so I just might think the Braves should pass on him unless the Mariners do the unexpected and take Allard and call it a day. Assuming they don’t then Allard plus a top 15 guy like Wentz for Diaz. You might need to get a little richer for Diaz though. He’s young, has a lot of years of control and was the AL’s best closer.
I get the idea of using Contreras and even like it but you would need to have a deal in place with the likes of Grandel before you make the trade.
You could potentially trade out Wright with Soroka but I would hope the Braves keep one of their top two young pitchers.
Burgeezy
Haniger would be a good fit for Cleveland, but I’m not sure we have enough to bring him.
#Fantasygeekland
He’d be a good fit just about anywhere… and they definitely have enough to bring him, they probably just don’t want to get rid of Triston Mckenzie, etc.
hoof hearted
sell off,retooling or what ever you want to call it; is a sell out to the M’s fans. with the roster as is, afew adjustments like; a LF that can drive in runs and a utility guy that can at least hit his weight. Gordon is not the right fit. Need 2017-18 version of Cruz, in 2019. Healys got to do better with 2b’s and walks. Seagar needs a rebound. 1 more year of felix’s contract, so get a front end SP and back load the contract alittle.
-take Heyward in a salary dump+montomery and a prospect for=not much and Gordon (its a salary dump)
baseballhobo
Nelson Cruz is gone. King Felix is no longer good. Cano is getting old. A sell-off sounds like a good idea.
bighiggy
How about tyler O’Neill, Luke weaver, edmundo Sosa,alex reyes,john brebbia,jake woodford and adolis garcia for paxton and colome and diaz. Its alot of moving parts but the Mariners would get alot of cheap talent and the cards would get 3 things they definately need.
mitchladd
Cards hang up on that. Hard.No way you get that much.
bighiggy
I see your point, but at this time none of those guys that would go to seattle have legit proved themselves. None of those prospects(minus probably reyes) would hurt us. The 3 players coming back have showed what kind of players they are and I believe would give us an edge now, and with diaz the future. I love me some cardinals, but we have a tendency to over value our prospects and hang on to them alittle too long.
mitchladd
You’re giving up about 30 years worth of control for 5. That’s nuts for a team that has lots of pitching but needs bats.
davidcoonce74
Man, teams will be lining up for Diaz. His season was incredible and he comes with 5 more years of team control….
Steve Adams
Four more,but the asking price would be extraordinarily high regardless, yes.
eileenyankees9
Wow, this off season will be some heck of a fire sale in baseball, which is really exciting.
It will be a long off season
waiting to see who goes where and for what.
Cashman, better do something about his rotation already, no excuses,
and stop resigning pitchers
that cannot pitch into the 5th inning, field a bunt, or run to first on a ball on an assist!!
That is not the way Hal to get into the WS to and get you pissed off all over again
You can surely afford now an awesome rotation and a real ace you can depend on.
stansfield123
Cano would be a nice consolation prize for a team that needs someone to piss off the “he’s not running hard” blowhards in the comment sections of Internet forums…but doesn’t have $400M to spend right now.
madmanTX
That’s what throwing so much cash at a guy like Cano gets you. Teams don’t learn from other teams’ mistakes.
mikeyank55
The grass is greener…in Colorado lol
mmarinersfan
Oh my God, get Dee Gordon off of this team. Paxton is definitely getting traded and should get a good haul there.
They definitely could try to and trade Diaz, and Haniger but they should Extend haniger, and probably entertain offers for Diaz, maybe trade him at the deadline or this time next year though.
Colome should be traded now, Cano is staying, Segura might be gone, Dee Gordon is all but gone, they might hold onto Juan and trade him come July and see if he can bounce back (and he should with those peripherals). Someone would take Mike Leake. Hold onto Marco, Ben Gamel, Heredia, Vogelbach, those types of guys.
One heck of an offseason coming up.
Burgeezy
Who is Juan?
mmarinersfan
Nicasio, sorry
pojack
Not a great market to trade Diaz in a lot of free agent bullpen out there.
martevious
If we could get someone to take Cano, that would be a coup!! It would free up a LOT of money.
It wouldn’t be smart to get rid of Diaz. A relief talent like that doesn’t come along very often.
Seager will continue to underperform; Segura and Paxton will continue to be hurt all the time. If they can get value for them, they would be well worth trading.
hoof hearted
several mention trading diaz; dont care what talent or how many players they would get in return; they would never get a player as good as diaz is-period! So why would they want to trade him? Prospect are not a ‘for sure thing”.
davidcoonce74
It does seem weird considering the control, but I suppose if the offer was just too good…..but still, hard to find pitchers that have three times as many strikeouts as hits allowed.
martevious
Amen! You trade veterans for young talent. Why would we want to trade the young talent we have like Haniger, Diaz, and Gonzales-those are the kind of guys we need to build around.
hoof hearted
yes, yes, yes. finally someone understands this teams has to keep these young talented players! and NOT trade them off for some ‘maybe’ / ‘might make it’.
braves25
Maybe they package Diaz with Cano to get out from that contract…Similar to what the BRaves did with Kimbrel and Upton Jr.
Aaron Sapoznik
I just don’t see a major selloff or teardown with the Mariners, at least for this offseason. With Nelson Cruz and Denard Span hitting free agency only Robinson Cano is substantially on the wrong side of 30 among their core position players. Cano is still a highly productive player who missed half of the 2018 season to a PED suspension on a Mariners team that still managed 89 wins last year.
Aside from their own formidable talent, the Mariners might also view 2019 as a good opportunity for success in the AL West since the Astros are facing some potentially major rotation issues with two starters hitting free agency and a third facing the possibility of elbow surgery this offseason. The A’s are also good but they are still a team that can never sustain long term success with their financial constraints in Oakland.
I believe that Seattle will give it one more shot in 2019 with a solid core of position players who are all in their prime years aside from Cano and with a pitching staff headed by an elite starter in James Paxton and closer in Edwin Diaz. The soonest they should consider a selloff would be this summer’s trade deadline and only if they are a non-contender.
stansfield123
Well, if they’re selling, they should be selling their most valuable assets, irrespective of how many years of control they have. Just because you plan to contend in 2-3 years, doesn’t mean you should keep guys with four years of time left. You sell them now, and retool when it’s time to contend.
Diaz, Paxton, Hanniger and Segura would bring back an entire farm system worth of prospects..
Rumncoke
Its about time
mitchladd
I would love to the the Cards buy low on Seager. Plays 3rd and has lefty power.
baseballpun
Weaver for Seager and platoon him with Gyroko? Maybe add more to get Colome back too?
I don’t know. Seager was bad last year. Is there any indication he can bounce back?
mitchladd
He can usually give you 260/25/85 with plus defense and that was in Seattle’s big park. He would be a good fit from that stand point. To be honest though, I checked and he’s a couple years older than I thought he was.
ayrbhoy
It’s hard to predict which Kyle Seager will show up going forward- he played w a fractured toe for at least 2/3 of last season. That injury affected his swing but, over the last couple seasons defensive shifts have drastically affected Kyle’s success in BA and total amount of hits. I’m hopeful that Seager gets back to that 260/25/85 you mention. At least his defense didn’t leave him last yr. James Paxton should’ve thrown a 1 hitter in Toronto- the play Seager made on Kevin Pillars hard ground ball for the 3rd out in the 7th inn was absolutely ridiculous. That throw!
BrandonBrave91
Braves trade 3B Austin Riley, p touki tussaint, p kolby allard, p kyle Wright, OF drew waters for p James Paxton, c mike Zunino, 3b kyle seager.
southi
I’d rather Atlanta just try to acquire Haniger and Paxton maybe.
To be honest this is probably the right move for the Mariners. DON’T do a total teardown, but we’ll off a few very valuable chips and cash them in on major league ready (or nearly ready) talent. As it currently stands the Mariners don’t have the flexibility (prospect talent or financially) to compete with others in the AL West so they need to get creative. Maybe learn a thing or two from how Tampa operates, but just with a bigger budget.
It will be interesting to see how the trade market operates with seemingly several teams reworking their rosters in some major form.
BrandonBrave91
That’s a fair thought. I was thinking Zunino would be good power off the bench and can spell flowers when needed. Also thinking worst case scenario, Seager could be great power off bench as well. Best case scenario, Seager rebounds and takes over 3rd and Camargo would give braves great versatility off of bench. This move would strengthen Atlantas bench while adding a TOR starter. All without breaking the bank. Also as food for thought, maybe Atlanta could trade Teheran and prospect for a solid reliever to a team willing to take on Tehran’s salary. That’ll help offset the cost financially of acquiringPaxton, Seager, and Zunino while leaving enough payroll to help improve the outfield and possibly add another frontline starter. Maybe sign Craig kimbrel as well… just my 2 cents worth.,
MarinerMiner
Why do people always seem to think the Mariners are a small market? They don’t have flexibility financially? Maybe so with current contracts and ownership hard line on payroll size. Their TV revenue is estimated at the fifth highest in MLB and their market size is the 13th largest out of 67 sports cities in the nation. Just because the owners have a hard line on payroll does not mean they don’t have the means financially.
southi
Never once did I insinuate that Seattle was a small market. When I was referring to learning a thing or two from Tampa I was specifically speaking about trading established players for younger players who are cheaper and have more control OR who they think have unlocked/untapped value. I even specifically mentioned they have a larger budget. Whether you want to accept the fact or not, but EVERY team has a budget. Some budgets are just substantially larger than others. They still need to allocate financial resources correctly to be successful within their own budget constraints.
muskie73
Four years of elite closer Edwin Diaz and two or three years of second baseman Dee Gordon at $28 million or $41 million to the Los Angeles Dodgers for two years of center fielder Joc Pederson with a projected 2019 salary of $4.3 million, one year of potential designated hitter Matt Kemp at about $18 million and five bargain years of demoted started Kenta Maeda for a combined $15 million (plus incentive bonuses, perks and $1 million assignment bonus).
Just a thought. 😉
adshadbolt
No if them mariners are gonna tear down they want prospects
muskie73
No tear-down intended.
Kenta Maeda, who may represent more surplus value than Edwin Diaz, would slot into the rotation.
Joc Pederson would fill a need in the outfield.
Matt Kemp would provide a one-year replacement for Nelson Cruz.
Alex Colome, who in 2017 led the American League in saves, would take over the closer’s role in Seattle.
vtadave
Not a great thought. Why would the Mariners trade for the likes of these guys?
antsmith7
Nah but we’ll take Verdugo!
#Fantasygeekland
They won’t take three guys the Dodgers don’t really have starting spots for in exchange for Diaz. I just don’t see that happening. If LAD wants Diaz, they are going to need to give up something that hurts, not just three guys they don’t really have starting roles for.
muskie73
It’s the concept of selling high and buying low.
Steamer projects Edwin Diaz with a 2019 WAR of 1.3 in 65 appearances:
fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=14710&posi…
Steamer projects Kenta Maeda with a 2019 WAR of 1.6 in 23 starts:
fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=18498&posi…
Given the five years remaining on Maeda’s contract at only $15 million (plus incentives, perks and $1 million assignment bonus), one could argue that Maeda represents more surplus value than Diaz, who is likely to earn more than that in his final four years of team control.
Stevil
That might be the single most ridiculous proposal I’ve ever seen here. Seriously, the top closer in baseball would command a haul starting with Verdugo and Ruiz, maybe White as well.
muskie73
Fans tend to overvalue closers.
I welcome numbers to support any opinion.
Stevil
A half season of Chapman netted NY Torres and Miller netted them Frazier and Sheffield. Not all prospects work out, but Kimbrel netted San Diego a good haul at the time, as did Giles for the Phillies.
You would have a better argument suggesting teams overvalue closers.
I’ll add that teams don’t care about Steamer and reliever WAR projections. They have their own numbers–not that anyone would need much to recognize that Maeda isn’t comparable to Diaz.
Blue_Painted_Dreams_LA
I would like to start this by saying I am a Dodgers fan. This is a very bad trade proposal in every sense of the word. The Dodgers basically have no interest in Gordon. Let’s start there, because this thought needs to die. He has had one very above average year as a hitter since the trade, which was right before he was popped for PED, coincidence I know. He’s basically been a very good base runner and defender, but offensively people are in love with what the idea of what the guy could be instead of what he really is. If you’d like numbers he has a career obp of .322. He slashed .268/.288 last year, power isn’t his game so we won’t worry about it bc it makes it worse. His WRC+ have looked 116,75,94,77. OPS+ 116,77,97, 79. And he is owed what 13 M? In this market…… and well he was given away last offseason.
So in essence you basically proposed a salary dump in Kemp(who the Dodgers basically sat towards the end of last year for a platoon role), a platoon role player who is no longer a cf, and a backend starter (whose kickers are pretty expensive for what he is) for an elite rp with 4 years of control. In no world does that make sense. If they are going to trade Diaz they are trading him for a reason. It’s not going to be collecting players that are one dimensional & expensive/soon to be expensive players to barely keep them afloat. The market is a sellers market for elite RPs with substantial control. You can overvalue closers sure, but at the same time, you can overvalue your own players which is on display here.
muskie73
Indeed, Kenta Maeda’s contract calls for up to $10 million a year in incentives for games started and innings pitched.
legacy.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/nl…
The incentives totaled $8.75 million in 2016, $4.75 in 2017 and $3 million in 2018. With a slot in a starting rotation, Maeda would be likely to earn upwards of $8 million to $10 million a year.
muskie73
Would the trade proposal be more realistic if the Mariners replaced Edwin Diaz with reliever Alex Colome, who has two years of team control with a projected 2019 salary of $7.3 million?. With the Rays in 2017 Colome led the American League in saves.
mdbaseball05
No, it wouldn’t be more realistic. If the Mariners are trading Diaz, it’s going to be for players with more control for cheap. Pederson only has two years left, and they are going to want young arms. I don’t really think the Dodgers are a good fit.
I personally think I would rather see them match up with the Cubs. Something like Diaz and Segura for Happ and Schwarber. Other pieces would likely be involved. but they’re going to look for young guys that are controlled for several years.
Blue_Painted_Dreams_LA
The trade proposal fails in general with the inclusion of Gordon, and to a lesser extent Kemp. The Dodgers would have interest in Diaz, as would any contending team, but the meat of that trade would include controllable impact talent, not expensive role players. Beyond that, I’m not sure the Dodgers would have major interest in Colome. And even then for a team that already has an extended payroll taking on the types of players suggested defeats the purpose.
Syndergaarden Cop
do us all a favor, keep your thoughts to yourself next time
nsmith12641
Dipoto really just wants an excuse so he can do his thing and make a ton of trades and transactions.
em650r
Dee Gordon to the Dodgers
They need some speed and a leadoff bat
vtadave
Is he really the solution at leadoff? A .288 OBP?
muskie73
Over the three previous seasons Dee Gordon had an on-base percentage of .340.
Blue_Painted_Dreams_LA
He has? .305/.341/.288 I don’t think that averages to .340 ♂️. That’s not close to accurate. Oh and let’s not include 15 for obvious reasons.
muskie73
In a response to a post that noted Dee Gordon’s ,288 on-base percentage THIS YEAR, I wrote that Gordon has an OBP of .340 in the the three PREVIOUS seasons, which would entail 2015, 2016 and 2017.
In 1,694 plate appearances 2015-17, Gordon posted an on-base percentage of .340.
Assign whatever weight to Gordon’s 588 plate appearances this year.
Blue_Painted_Dreams_LA
I think it’s beyond safe to say that 15 has a major asterisk around it.
hiflew
The ridiculous idea of moving him to the OF probably led him to a bad offensive year. Not to mention moving to Safeco didn’t do him any favors either.
hoof hearted
foot problems in the 2nd half
damon389
Gordon was pretty terrible last year. I can see why the M’s would want to get rid of him.
#Fantasygeekland
they’re not giving up on him after one bad season. They’d move him because he has trade value and they want some prospects in return.
hoof hearted
he was bad in the 2nd half; foot problems. but I dont think he fit well with the m’s roster. and at $12M, ouch.
antsmith7
Finally! This should have happened three years ago! Trade Diaz, Segura and Paxton. And as much as I love Haniger, he is our most valuable asset. Trade him too!
ni300ne
The Mariners have never fully committed to a rebuild this century. They got lucky last year and cannot compete against the Boston’s, New York’s and Houston’s on the mlb world and would be wise to build a team who can compete when their windows begin to close in a couple years. Even if they get lucky and win the second wild card in2019 there is no way a rotation of Paxton, Felix and Leake are pitching them to a World Series. They should look at Milwaukee as the model to follow and not the Chicago’s and Houston model.
cxcx
They kind of are following Milwaukee’s model already: bunch of nobody pitchers (actually Seattle’s rotation might actually be more talented with Paxton) and a bunch of good position players.
damon389
I wonder if Mike Zunino could be an interesting trade candidate for Oakland. Yes, I know they’re in the same division but the A’s and M’s traded Pagan for Healy so there’s certainly precedent. I wouldn’t give up much, but Zunino could be an interesting “bridge” until Murphy’s fully ready. Luc’s lack of power is frustrating. and he’s a FA
xabial
It takes courage, to admit you’re not good enough and retool.
damon389
I suppose. I believe they’re simply facing reality. Diaz’s fantastic season made them better than they appeared. A negative run differential and one of the worst MiLB systems makes this a fairly simple decision. What will take courage is if they trade someone like Haniger, Segura and/or Paxton to load up the farm system. Then we’ll know if they’re really serious…
Weighed
Could have the potential for most trades in off season history. Go get em Jerry.
Dodgers would have to come knocking. They need a WS ring after 0-2.
M’s only chance this offseason would have been to go for bounce back players like Harvey and Gray. But with no farm, they had little hope. No need to sign Felix or Nelson again. Vogelbach must be DH.
thecoffinnail
The Dodgers are starting to look like the Buffalo Bills of the early 90s. I believe they went to the Super Bowl 4 years in a row and didn’t win one. They did have an amazing comeback against Houston in the playoffs one of those years. That was by far the most exciting 4th quarter of any football game I have ever seen.
cxcx
Lol
southi
Given this is supposed to be a retool and not a total rebuild, I wonder what would be fair price for Paxton and Haniger. I’m assuming they mainly desire plug and play replacements who are cheap, controllable with some upside talent thrown in.
Perhaps Teheran, Newcomb, Allard, Pache and Riley in exchange for Paxton and Haniger. All of those headed to Seattle could help the Mariners potentially in 2019.
mj-2
I’d doubt they’d want Teheran and I’d rather not give them Riley
southi
Teheran eats innings and can help them in 2019 be competitive. I’d hate dealing Riley too, but to get Paxton and Haniger you will have to give quality players that you’d rather not give up.
No team wants junk for cheap controllable stars.
#Fantasygeekland
If they wanted to be competitive in ’19, they wouldn’t trade Haniger and Paxton
#Fantasygeekland
If you want Paxton and Haniger, you can’t just say you don’t want to give up a prospect like Riley lmao. You’ll need to give up a LOT of talent in addition to him.
zoinksscoob91 2
Jon Heyman now reporting that everyone EXCEPT Haniger, Gonzales, and Diaz are available. Keeping Diaz if they’re rebuilding doesn’t make sense, especially since he’d be one of the (if not THE) best trade chips they have. I can understand holding onto Haniger, though. He’s the kind of guy you build around. Gonzales… not sold on him completely, but he’s cheap and controllable. But good luck finding homes for Cano, Seager, and Felix with their bloated contracts (and in the case of Cano and Felix, complete no-trade protection, which further complicates things.)
Dipoto sold ownership a bill of goods 3 years ago, and got rewarded with a new contract this summer. Now they’re advocating a tear-down at the same time the team is asking for substantial increases in season ticket prices (especially for the long-term ticket holders), with the deadline for deposits coming up next week. Not exactly a smart move…
mj-2
If Haniger isn’t available then forget it I’m out
Not interested in just Paxton to the Braves
#Fantasygeekland
I find it funny how they are willing to trade anyone, except 3 players, and…. Marco Gonzales is one of them… Not exactly the caliber of player you think of when you talk about untouchable players.
muskie73
This year Seattle lefthander Marco Gonzales, a former first-rounder who comes with five years of team control, ranked 23rd among all starters in fWAR, just ahead of Clayton Kershaw and Zack Greinke:
fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=sta&…
#Fantasygeekland
Pretty big durability concerns, I just don’t think he should be untouchable. Not saying he isn’t valuable
Ronk325
The Yankees should be going hard for Paxton. If they can trade for him and sign Corbin the rotation should be set for next year
kpalmer122
For those hoping to get rid of Cano’s contract, remember that he has a full no-trade clause. I could see him waiving it for the right situation but I feel it warrants a mention in the article tbh.
drewm
The Mariners gambled and made a lot of bad personnel choices. Good luck unloading it.
muskie73
Robinson Cano, Kyle Seager, Jean Segura and Nelson Cruz have all exceeded their Seattle long-term contracts to date, according to the WAR value conversions:
fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=3269&posit…
fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=9785&posit…
fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=5933&posit…
fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=2434&posit…
sufferforsnakes
I would never want this guy for my team’s GM. He’s a minors system destroyer.
algionfriddo
What top minor league player has Dipoto given away as Mariner GM? Tyler O’Neill brought them Marco Gonzales. M’s were desperate for starting pitching. Marco is no frontline ace but O’Neill is not exactly a blue chipper with 57 K’s in only 142 PA. Dipoto came to a Mariner minor league system that had little to begin with. Chris Taylor went to the Dodgers at the age of 26 and did not show well when given a chance by the M’s. 26 is not a prospect. Dipoto has had little on the farm to mispend.
#Fantasygeekland
Enyel de Los santos, Freddy peralta, Gohara, neidert, Pablo Lopez, need I go on? I don’t see how listing two players Dipoto has traded disproves anything
juicemane
The sell off should start with Dipoto…and you guys say AJ is a scam artist lol…a 5 year rebuild to start that may or may not work, considering who has been evaluating talent for you guys so far. And you haven’t made the playoffs in over 20 years
mdbaseball05
I wouldn’t mind trying to get Happ and Schwarber from the Cubs. Maybe Segura +. I also agree that the Braves are a good fit for Paxton and Haniger.
Overall though, if you’re going to sell, sell off all of the assets. Paxton, Haniger, Diaz, Segura, and maybe even Seager and Zunino. Cano and Felix are going to be very tough to unload, but Cano has some value. We’d have to pay the vast majority of his salary though. Either way, get prospects now and add to it when you’re close to contending again.
augold5
Paxton and Zunino could be interesting trade candidates for the Brewers, would fill two of our biggest holes.
julyn82001
King Felix will be back healthy to anchor the Ms rotation like he always does…
hoof hearted
I put a lost tooth under my pillow for the tooth fairy.
MarinerMiner
If a sell off happens I hope by the trade deadline they might be able to move both Felix and Seager to some contender for something, if they both can put together decent seasons. Would be nice to see both guys get a shot at the playoffs as a long suffering Mariner fan.
hoof hearted
more like; trade them to a bottom dweller+ a prospect+ Sea eats most(80-90%) of their salary. No contender is gonna waste a roster spot on Felix and seager.
MarinerMiner
You don’t know how baseball works do you.
hoof hearted
Please share with us: what contender in the last 5 years added a SP with 5++ era, or a .220 power hitting 3B?? both making $25M+.
NO contender would take them-period!
If they did, the GM should be fired.
its_happening
Mariners can deal one of them for Chris Davis.
bradenbaseball18
Hey, FYI Seager only makes 19.5 mil this next year and that’s the peak of his contract
muskie73
Felix Hernandez is the only Mariner with contract calling for a current or future annual salary of $25 million or more (and he’s under contract for only one more season).
its_happening
Go after a top pitcher, trade with Toronto for Smoak and Pillar. Smoak replaces Cruz and Pillar keeps Dee Gordon at 2B. Pillar would replace Span.
They also need to hope Oakland takes a step back. The A’s starting pitching never crumbled and got huge production with certain hitters. If it doesn’t work, hit reset in July. Seattle needs to give this team at least the first few months to make a run.
hoof hearted
M’s should be adding, not selling.
Hou’s 2019 rotation: verlander, Cole, and maybe McCullers(unless he needs surgery).
Keuchel and Morton are FA’s.
Do you really think that the A’s can overachieve again in 2019?
Burgeezy
Except the Ms overachieved last season. They had a negative run differential
#Fantasygeekland
They also have arguably the top pitching prospect in baseball in Forrest Whitley who is in AAA, peacock, mchugh, josh James- top 100 prospect, framber Valdez and that’s assuming they don’t resign or sign any starting pitchers. They’re in arguably as good shape as anyone when it comes to starting pitching
hoof hearted
they are deep in SP talent
mikeyank55
Hey Floyd-they can get creative to shed cano’s contract however there are NO fools to take a player in decline that is a steroid user.
muskie73
Steamer projects Robinson Cano with a 2019 WAR of 3.1, which will again provide a value that exceeds his $24 million annual salary.
Guest617
felix shud’ve been traded years ago for a kings ransom.. no pun intended
hoof hearted
maybe Jeff Passan can enlighten us as to Who in the M’s organization said “considering a full fledge teardown”.
-writers exaggerating? mostlikly to get the fans all riled up; like me.
justin-turner overdrive
oh my god, then dipoto doubles down! lol – the mariners have NO chance at contending and no farm – any idiot knows to sell at that point
throwinched10
A farm system doesn’t win championships. A farm builds a winner if the players are traded for proven talent or they themselves become the proven talent but to rely on the latter is insane! How many prospects fail to pan out? Tons!
Joeypower
In others words pick and choose everyone!!
throwinched10
They don’t need a full rebuild, just tweaking as Dipoto has said…or re-imagining as he calls it.
I do however believe that they should consider tradibg Diaz. I could see the Braves lining up in a trade for Diaz. A starting pitcher like Newcomb and a good hitting prospect like Riley could be a good avenue to either go with or start at.
Diaz would bring back at least one solis SP and then you look at someone to play CF like Pollock or move Haniger to CF and go after Adam Jones.
Colome is the new closer and the bullpen is still solid. Felix becomes a middle reliever.
Syndergaarden Cop
you want newcomb and riley, for a closer? thanks for the laugh
throwinched10
Newcomb isn’t an ace and Riley is a prospect. He hasn’t proven anything where it matters. he has potential and that’s it.
Diaz is a proven closer who is also cheap and controllable.
That’s exactly what I would ask for and of not I’d be happy to keep Diaz.
restingmitchface
Mariners should tear it down. As others have mentioned, they were fortunate in 2018. And even having that good fortune, they were just semi-contenders for the most part.
Given the strength of the Astros and A’s, I’d prioritize high-ceiling guys in the lower minors if possible. Everyone is available.
RunDMC
How does one re-imagine a roster? Is he using 2019 budget to thaw out Walt Disney in lieu of the GM Meetings?
Knowthemarket
Oh come on. We all just spent the last several hours divying up the Mariners roster! What an Indian giver!!!
Syndergaarden Cop
3.76 ERA for Paxton. Not exactly an ace.
Vizionaire
in this new live ball era that may not be that bad.
Knowthemarket
A 3.23 FIP implies he was better than his ERA.
Billy 3
I’ve been advocating a Braves trade for
Mitch Haniger for several months now.A Braves OF of LF Acuna, CF Inciarte, RF Haniger is in reality 3 CF and could be the best defensive OF in baseball. Also very affordable and controllable. Not to mention 30 HR power from the corners, 60 steals, 300 avg’s. What would it take to get Haniger, Colome & Zunino ?
Knowthemarket
I can’t imagine Colome or Zunino would cost to much but Haniger would probably be two top 100 prospects and a while card.
Vizionaire
dip the trade king is going to make trades just to make trades!
angelsfan4life
He doesn’t know how to trade for prospects. He only knows how to trade them.
BlueJayFan1515
Is it somewhat possible that the Mariners sign Pollock for 4 years 60 mil or something and bring back Cruz, while copying the Athletics bargain shopping from last year to round out a rotation spot or two?
johnnynoze
Translation: “My moves last year should have been good enough to get us to the playoffs. A statistical anomaly (the A’s) beat us to the punch. We’re going to do whatever it takes to it make the same mistake this year.” I believe in Dipoto’s data first approach but I think he has to make concessions in the people he has to surround himself with due to insufficiencies in the market.
yamsi1912
To think they just extended trader Jerry. Guy guts farm systems for a living.