9:30pm: The league’s formal announcement of the system indicates that only players under contract with the FCB are eligible for the posting system. Others are eligible to sign with MLB teams under the same system as other international amateurs. Cuban professionals will be made eligible to MLB clubs each offseason and are free to sign with any MLB team willing to pay a release fee on said player.
A professional player’s release fee will be determined based on the same scale as in the NPB and KBO posting systems. That is to say that, on top of the bonus paid to the player, a Major League team will pay a release fee equal to 20 percent of the first $25MM of a bonus, 17.5 percent of the next $25MM and 15 percent for anything beyond that point. Notably, today’s announcement indicates that Cuban players who’ve been released into the posting system “will be scouted and signed in Cuba by MLB clubs.”
The agreement runs through Oct. 31, 2021, unless there is an agreement of an extension of the system prior to that point. Full details of the arrangement can be seen in the league’s announcement.
3:23pm: MLB and the FCB have indeed reached an agreement, as Romero reported last night and as Passan now details in a new column. An announcement could come as soon as today. While the agreement is significant, the newly agreed-upon system could be dashed if the current presidential administration opts to scale back on regulations installed under the previous administration that loosened restrictions on business interactions with Cuba.
As Castillo tweets, however, the new system doesn’t require immediate government approval before going into place, as MLB already has a license in place. That does not preclude future legislation from throwing a wrench into the system.
The specifics of the new system aren’t yet fully clear, though Passan does detail some of the financial elements of the arrangement. Major League teams signing a Cuban player would pay the FCB a release fee on top of the money promised to that player — a 25 percent tax on amateur players (i.e. players under 25 and/or with fewer than six years of experience) and a 15 to 20 percent fee for professional players (i.e. players 25 or older and with more than six years of pro experience). The exact release fee on a professional player is determined based on a sliding scale — the specifics of which are not yet publicly available but will presumably come to light when the league makes a formal announcement.
Interestingly, Castillo suggests (via Twitter) that players who qualify as professionals (25 years of age, six-plus years of pro experience) will all be “released” by default, allowing them to pursue opportunities with MLB clubs. Presumably, those who do not wish to leave Cuba in pursuit of a big league deal will be able to continue playing on the island.
The new system leaves Cuba with an overwhelming amount of control over its native talent. Players who defect will indeed be subject to the punishment of an additional waiting period, per Passan. Professionals who defect would need to wait until the start of the next free-agent period (i.e. the week after the conclusion of the World Series). Amateur players who defect will be forced to sit out an entire signing period. As Passan spells out, that’d mean a player who defects after July 2 next year would sit out not only for the 2019-20 signing period but also the 2020-21 signing period before becoming eligible to sign in the 2021-22 period. Obviously, then, those regulations were put forth in an effort to severely punish those who wish to defect from the island and circumvent the newly created system.
11:50am: It seems there could soon be a new arrangement to allow Cuban ballplayers to move to MLB organizations, though the timeline for a formal agreement remains unclear. Francys Romero of CiberCuba.com reported (Spanish language link) on the prospective deal, which Jorge Castillo of the Los Angeles Times says was presented to teams at the Winter Meetings, though Jeff Passan of Yahoo Sports (via Twitter) emphasizes that a deal is not yet completed.
Details are not fully clear, but generally it seems the concept under contemplation is a kind of posting system not unlike those already in operation with professional leagues in Japan and Korea. In this case, the Cuban Baseball Federation (FCB) would evidently recoup the fees paid by MLB teams for the right to acquire talent from the island nation.
The approach would seemingly do away with the current process, in which Cuban players who wish to play with affiliated organization have been forced to defect from their homeland and establish residency elsewhere. Needless to say, it’s far from an ideal system (if that’s even a fair term), and one that has resulted in some highly problematic trafficking situations.
Under the proposal, the reporting of Romero and Castillo suggests, MLB teams would pay a release fee of a varying amount, tied to the value of the bonus. Fees for minor-league signings would be set at 25%, while MLB deals would require 15% or 20% payouts. While the bonuses themselves would presumably continue to count against teams’ international bonus pools, the fees would not.
The new system would seem to open the door to a more open and accessible transfer system. Of course, there are still some concerns and also some hurdles. It seems the Cuban organization would control the pipeline to no small extent. Per Castillo, there’d be no provision to allow for scouting in Cuba. More importantly, any players who defect would not only face a penalty “waiting period” but would still be subject to the fee requirements.
Obviously, there’ll also need to be some governmental machinations before any deal can be finalized. It seems reasonable to presume that the commissioner’s office has been operating in conjunction with the relevant federal authorities, but broader political forces could presumably still influence the outcome. After all, there’s still ample uncertainty in the broader United States-Cuba relationship.
But why punish defectors with the extra waiting time?
Because it gives the Cuban leagues more control over who leaves and who stays in return for MLB getting greater access to the talent pool overall
Yes, that’s a cold an amoral answer, but it’s all about business.
It’s also to avoid players leaving for the specific purpose of evading fees I’d imagine. If the waiting period is like 5 or 6 years it would give them tons of control, but if it’s just 2 years or less it would be clearly just to avoid having players defect to evade additional fees.
Pretty much, yeah. If a player can just move away and Dodge the whole system, it’s a pretty pointless system.
Maybe growing up under communist/socialist type government alone and having shortages of everything was/is enough to make some players want to escape the island of doom rather than avoiding fees.
I realize there are some who thing socialism is a great utopian idea and would form a perfect society, but it never works, nor has it ever worked out well and Cuba, Venezuela are 2 perfect examples.
Actually Cuba and Venezuela are perfect examples of why ‘cult of personality’ government is moronic. The problem was more the authoritarian nature of the leaders than the ideology they claimed.
A lesson sadly lost on a large majority of American voters these days…
Hillbot on Aisle 2.
You’re joking Right? Socialism and communism are forms of imperialism. This notion that it can somehow exist in a non authoritarian environment is absurd. People have to be forced into communism and socialism. It places the community above the individual, removes freedom and choice, and eliminates progress/development. Cuban players aren’t “avoiding fees” or escaping a leader. They are fleeing the communist system, which punishes the successful and rewards the incompetent. You should just delete the internet, as your bird brained self has no business spreading ideas.
No the lesson isn’t loss, it’s the ideology of socialism and communism that never will ever work because you will always have an elite upper class making decisions for the entire population which breeds control and corruption. Always! Sorry but that isn’t freedom and it isn’t lost on any American. But you know you are free to move to Venezuela?
tRuE sOcIaLiSm HaS nEvEr BeEn TrIeD bEfOrE
Doesn’t our elite upper class make all the decisions now?
You are mistaking cronyism with capitalism.
Venezuela says hello.
This sounds a lot like what we have here… “An elite upper class making decisions for the entire population”. You just described our republic not socialism or communism
It’s not “about” business as much as it is “about government”. The Cuban players are being denied their Freedom of Association or having it compromised because the Cuban government doesn’t allow for such a concept.. If a Cuban player was already under contract with a Cuban-based team, of course that team should have rights until the contracts expiration, but to deny a pre-contractual player his freedom to choose is nothing less than oppressive.
MLB does the same thing to every college and high school player here, you know. Like, literally, the exact same thing, and nobody’s on a soap box…
Someone’s on a soap box.
If you think MLB does the exact same thing as Cuba, you need to tear up whatever degree you think you earned and start over.
I’m sure it was a degree in the liberal arts
Lmao wow I’m not sure which institutions are brainwashing this kid Petrie but it’s scary that many kids nowadays think the same way.
Oh let’s not go down the road of who’s brainwashing and who’s getting brainwashed. Even though I can’t say I agree with anything Petrie said
Best post have seen on this topic. Danny B. Difficult to discuss socialist and faults of it to a true socialist and believer in that type of system when PROVEN it does not work.
Yet socialist healthcare systems work in EVERY European country, Australia, Japan and Canada. Why is it the US and it’s private insurance based system (capitalism) is the only one in the Western World where it’s populace is split on it?
Some aspects of socialism clearly work and the only people denying this are the people who’ve never tried it.
Right so the parents of babies where the government won’t let them try treatments sure love their social denial of healthcare.
would florida cuban community be o.k. with this?
Why not? The most vocal of that community supported a capitalistic dictator who was replaced by a communist one. This deal is about money. If they can figure out a way to profit from it, no problemo!
FYI. In 1958 there were Presidential Elections in Cuba. Batista had already announced that he will leave immediately as soon as the new elected President, Rivero Aguero took over. I was there.
FYI-There were presidential elections in a lot of countries, like Iraq under Saddam Hussein and Egypt under Hosni Mubarak. My current favorite has Kim Jong Un as the leader of North Korea, officially known as the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea.
If the political climate in 1958 Cuba was so hunky-dory then why the Castro takeover? My fear is that the same can happen in other “truer” democratic republics, including the USA with the election of additional narcissist presidential candidates down the road. Rome didn’t fall in a day, how long before the same happens to us?
And how old were you when you were there may I ask ?
Batista was installed by the US. Cuba was a safe haven for years only for those who had the power. The Cuban people were subjects to Spain and then at the peril of America. This isn’t a perfect solution but progress takes time. These athletes are the elite as well as their doctors.
I am Cuban too and Americans have a very distorted idea of what true Cuban history and way of life is.
I don’t agree with this deal because although it will help young players get signed without having to escape the country, for the government this will be a means of making more money off the slaved residents.
mlb should not be making deals with communists regimes
This is some BS. MLB is going to pay a dictatorial government for their baseball players! Do not do this deal.
Uhhhh….Sudan, Thailand, Libya, Pakistan are all run the same, and the US deals with them every single day.
The United States does not allow organizations to purchase individuals from any of the countries you listed. As communists are all slaves, allowing one to leave Cuba in exchange for money is the exact same thing as buying slaves. These people have zero choice.
MLB isn’t “purchasing people”
I’m pretty sure the Cuban players who are posted will want to come and play in the US. This way they won’t have to defect, be smuggled in, and risk their lives to come to the US.
It is astonishing and terrifying how many liberals today want socialism (a less radical form of communism) and hate capitalism. These players go from making cents to making millions because of capitalism.
I know I’ll probably get flack for this, but I’m sorry for the non-baseball commit. I just wanted to briefly state my fear of this growing support of socialism and communism in the United States.
You’re absolutely correct. Liberals today (especially the young ones) have no idea of the dangers of socialism, not to mention communism.
Don’t be afraid of socialism, it has it’s pros and cons, but so does capitalism.
Be afraid of people exploiting irrational fear of either system to convince you there’s some shadowy enemy out there you need to be so afraid of that it’s okay to take away your rights to keep you safe
That tends to be the point where both systems go completely off the rails.
People in Venezuela are eating dogs to survive.
Every where socialism has been fully implemented has gone to crap in horrifying ways.
You don’t see people fleeing capitslism to relocate in socalism.
But, yeH…irrational fears
venezuela’s ruling class is every bit capitalist. it’s not socialism that have brought such plight to the people of that country. it is greed.
People eat dogs in China and it’s been common for thousands of years lol. Pretty sure you wont tell me how bad things are there when their faux communist country has so much of the US debt.
People in China don’t eat pets. People in Venezuela are eating their pets because there is no food.
Viz, I hope you don’t think anyone was swayed by those obvious lies. For the past 100+ years communists and socialists have said the exact same thing. It isn’t any more true today than it was back then. Wake up and smell the authoritarinism.
People eat pets all the time lol. What an absurd thing to say, how do you think horse meat became a thing? There are people who eat pigs that they adopt too. In South Korea a capitalist country eating dogs and cats is very common.
what’s really saddening and frightening are all the downvotes to the opposition to socialism on this site. Scary stuff, these young ones are indoctrinated with in universities nowadays.
John answered, “Anyone who has two shirts should share with the one who has none, and anyone who has food should do the same.”
that is the essence of democratic socialism.
I do love that most people who are heavily religious are the one’s who reject socialism the most despite it’s teachings being heavily socialist.
It’s not like Jesus asked to be paid after healing someone did he?
so by that logic then do you strive to obey all of Jesus’ commandments or do you pick and choose which benefit your argument?
his main message is love and compassion. you must know that jesus hated ultra conservative, ‘do everything by the old book.’ crowd.
But where in these religious teachings does it tell you to give your property and earnings to someone richer than you so they can then give it to the poor?
What you mentioned was helping someone in need, which a great many don’t mind doing.
It’s when someone who already has great wealth demands you give up some of yours so they can spread it around that the problem starts.
Look up what “eminent domain” is and see that Republicans and Democrats have been using this strategy to get private pipelines built or even the oh so important wall.
I dont think socialism is what you think it means. Rich people who make a million dollars arent going to starve making 500k after being taxed half of it. Or more realistically a Bill Gates isnt going to starve paying 500M a year when he makes 1 billion a year.
Wow you missed the point, follow along. Wherever you have socialism you find greed and elitism! You can never have a small elite class controlling the population because you will always have corruption. Yes capitalism isn’t perfect and you have greed as well which is the reality of human beings but you have choices which you will never have in a socialist state. You may think capitalism is full of greed with the have’s and have nots but you have choices and opportunities to try and become a have. In a socialist state you are always the have not. You may think you have the ability to make decisions but you can never become a have no matter how genius, athletic, innovative you are.
People in China are being torchered based on religious beliefs, forced to work in sweat shops, many are living under the poverty line even though they are forced to work in factories. China is another fine example of a lack of freedom.
Yes and have the free will to do so. Through donations and church collections not through the government. Big huge difference there.
Yes and China is a capitalist country with an authoritarian government in charge. They also have a massive GDP and control tons of the US debt.
There can be capitalist dictators aswell as socialist ones.
Don’t we have greed and elitism now, even without socialism?
That is too funny.. China is as much of a capitalist country now, or anytime since mao as has been Russia since the 1917 revolution and that argument u just gave is what I’d expect from a socialist.. 100% hot air and nonsense.
Socialism is the opposite of factories owned by corporations just to tell you. Corporation owning things is kinda the opposite of the people owning the means of production.
There are not pros only misery and you losing your freedom. I was there until 1962. The government controls everything and you can not criticize it. I wish all those idiots who believe in Socialism and Communism will move to Cuba and not be allowed to return
Exactly. Just ask Cubans who defected how it was in Cuba.
Cuba is a mockery of socialism. Look to the NHS in the UK and similar programs in Scandinavia to see socialist health care that is saving lives and keeping sick people out of perpetual debt.
Critics of socialized health care pointing to Cuba and Venezuela is like critics of democracy pointing to Russia. Dictatorship makes a mockery of any political system it pretends to be
ask poor people of cuba who did not even have means to defect.
It’s the dictators bringing the misery. And there have been many capitalist dictators in history
Most of Europe is moderately socialist and doing fine. Extremism is the problem for these countries like Cuba. blanketly blaming socialism is just being naive
Socialist programs like social security, Medicare and medicaid. We all fear extremes except of capitalism. Capitalism kills business and we say that is how the markets dictated so. We never study our extremes because they are ours. We have Mccarthyism run amok all over again. Bernie and his brown socialists are coming to take over! Yikes! Go Yanks!
I truly feel for you my friend..
My USN ship was involved in the mariel boatlift back in 1980. We hauled aboard hundreds of grateful Cubans from the Gulf and brought many to the states, not all, some were transferred to the USS saipen, but many came here and they were happy to be GONE from Cuba.
I later on from that period worked with a fellow who came over from the boatlift and we became great friends. he told me horror stories of life under communist cuba during his early- teen years.
Thinking socialism is anything but a control mechanism is beyond incredibly naive.
Give me one example of a democratic state having a dictator destroy people’s lives and take away their freedom? One example?
While “destroy people’s lives and take away their freedom” are subjective things.you can look to Putin in Russia and the recently deposed Mugabe of Zimbabwe as examples of dictators doing terrible things in countries that pretend to espouse democracy. There are many more out there and in history. A dictator uses fake versions of systems like democracy and socialism as a front for their near total control over the country.
Never seen anyone floating on a raft in the middle of the ocean trying to escape the horrors of capitalism.
Medical bankruptcy isnt a thing in Europe, Canada, Japan and Australia. Those socialist medicare for all systems take care of that as nobody plans to get cancer.
Cuba is not communist, it’s a dictatorship. And before it was the Castro family dictatorship, it was a capitalist dictatorship, so spare us the poor political analysis.
I’m well aware it was a capitalist dictatorship and same with China before the communist took over and same with Vietnam before the communist took over, but Cuba became and still is communist. Korea is a free state and Taiwan is a free state. That is because they are not communist. Name one communist state that is free. I do not have a degree in political science. I’m working towards becoming a historian.
Cuba is not communist. There has never been an actual communist country in history, except maybe primitive native societies. Because, as you should know, communism does not have a central leader. There is no “president” or prime minister in a pure communist society – decisions are made by consensus and committee.
If you are working towards being a historian, that’s wonderful, but you should probably read Das Kapital or The Communist Manifesto because you aren’t aware that communism hasn’t ever existed.
And all those folks complaining about socialism; we have tons of socialist institutions in this country. The highway system. The public school system. The police department. The fire department. Your local hospital. The US military – these are all socialist institutions.
When Castro said a thousand plus times that he was a Communist he was lying. Ignorance is not a Virtue!!!
current president of s. korea is quite progressive. and he brought in more freedom than any of his predecessors.
I’ve heard that argument. It wasn’t true communism because the definition of communism does not comply with how communist states handled their countries. Yet, communism was the idea.
davidcoonce74: Yes. The closest form of pure communism I am aware of was the kibbutz in Israel. That was a finite agricultural community and hardly a country but it did seem to work well for those involved when they were more popular.
Additionally, there has never been a true democratic country either. The most common democracies have been democratic republics.
True democracy in its purest form, a country theoretically being ruled directly by the people might actually mimic true communism in its. With technology being what is today and what it might advance to in the future, this could happen if the people are willing and push hard enough for it. If people actually had an opportunity to vote on everything instead of mostly just politicians then we might be less apathetic as a society as well.
Technically, Communism is a form of Dictatorship. It’s basically a socialist state-run economy headed by a dictator without any personal freedoms.
It may not be the original intent of Communism, but the theory itself is inherently flawed to where it always becomes a Dictatorship whenever people attempt to put it into practice.
As for Republics, while it’s true that they’re not a pure form of democracy, they’re the best you can do in countries with millions of people. Even with modern technology, it’s simply not feasible to have every voting age citizen vote on every single issue.
That by the way is the simple definition of a pure Direct Democracy. It has nothing to do with economic policies like capitalism and socialism.
No! Communism specifically has no central leader. Seriously, look at Das Kapital or TCM for even a moment.
Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are socialistic in nature.
You’re engaging in hair-splitting. Communism is simply another word for Revolutionary Socialism and Communism is the end goal, NOT the process. All Socialists agree on the end result but disagree on the method to reach that goal. Democratic Socialists believe in a gradual movement via the ballot box while Revolutionary Socialists believe in a constant, violent state of revolution, where as Mao said, power grows “out of the barrel of a gun”. BTW, some of the examples you provided as “socialism” is pure nonsense; they are examples of Classical Liberalism, where the only legitimate function of government is the protection of it’s citizens, both foreign and domestic, hence the Military and Public Safety, but the remainder all have Private Sector options. If they were “socialist”, the government would retain a monopoly on each and every one.
It’s not enough to point out the obvious, that Cuba was a “dictatorship” , both before and after the Castros, but the philosophical foundation of the Cuban dictatorship was indeed Revolutionary Socialism, with Communism as the ultimate goal.
It (democracy) does indeed have something to do with “economic policies”, as expansion of the democratic process ALWAYS leads to an economic policy that redistributes resources from one group to another, justified by nothing more than majority rule. Two foxes and one chicken voting on the dinner menu is not what the Founders had in mind…. hence, the Constitution.
North Korea says it’s a Democratic Republic. We shouldnt take what people say literally when we can look at the policies they implement.
The government has a monopoly over the police force, the military, public highways, the fire department, hospitals (although private hospitals do exist), public schools…..that’s all socialism. We all pay for the entities that benefit society as a whole. If you don’t think that’s true see how long your private military or police department lasts.
China hasn’t been communist in 40 years since Nixon went over and they opened their factories to US businesses for cheap labor. Communist by definition doesn’t allow a single factory owner owning the means of production. China going from a communist dictatorship to a capitalist one hasn’t stopped it from abusing it’s citizens and repressing free speech.
This communist and socialist scare was drummed up by corporate elites who were pissed off that they weren’t allowed to get cheap labor from these countries or access to their markets. IE: Vietnam/China and now Cuba are all getting US corporations investing in their countries with hotel chains and food chains despite being former enemies and a “communist” regime. Cuba was notorious for US business interests and Casinos under the mafia before the Castro revolution.
Funny how that seems to happen a lot isn’t it? Why don’t you look up how Iran banned US corporations and stuff after their 1979 revolution? Before that they had US corporations under their puppet installed Shah of Iran.
No, they aren’t. We don’t have any truly socialist programs in America. Everything in America is funded by capitalism. You can’t have a socialist program funded by capitalism. Try again commy.
Socialism is by definition: a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange SHOULD BE OWNED OR REGULATED BY THE COMMUNITY AS A WHOLE.
The public streets are not owned by one individual, that would be disastrous IE: Tolling booths on every street corner.
Lanidrac: Technically speaking, Karl Marx would have strongly disagreed with your definition of communism or even socialism for that matter.
True @Mr. MacPhisto, but this is the Google definition. I like using the corporate Google definition because anyone with a brain can google it to see if it’s right or wrong. When they do they’ll get triggered by how silly it is that under a pure capitalistic society with no taxes going towards public spending the streets would be built by people wanting their investments back by charging those who can afford it to be used.
We have private highways all over the world, not everyone wants to pay a toll to use them though.
But aren’t those institutions you are complaing are broken and horrible?
Communism through the lens of Das Kapital has no central leader but that is where the flaw begins when dealing with large populations and ends because you cannot have it work the way it’s intended without direction and direction requires leadership which always always always becomes corrupt and controlling. If it were to work where people truly could vote and a system were in place well then what you truly have is democracy and that isn’t Communism.
Or you have the Trump presidency
Isn’t McCarthyism the one where everyone gets a free ventriloquist dummy? ( I may be too old for the room )
I’d argue that’s an extremely exaggerated view of liberalism. There are psychos out there who want that, but just as many on the other side. Cut out the noise from that 10% on each side and listen to the moderates. You could argue that the moderate democrats are leaning a little more towards socialism in regards to healthcare, but it’s only the far left that’s pushing for free college and the far far far left for “free everything” as it were.
the happiest people of the world live in countries where democratic socialism is the basis of political and economic structure. trickle down economics? nothing but sham. you give a poor family thousand dollars most of them will be spent in local businesses creating better turn-over of goods and funds.
Give me one example…….
sweden, norway, denmark, netherland….. to some degrees in canada, s. korea……
my wife recently had a fairly simple surgery and the total bill before follow-ups came out to be over $150,000. when i worked on a project in korea, one of our partners was korean american who had residency card in that country. he had a brain tumor removed and the total bill came out to less than $20,000.
You have a very wrong understanding of words
All of which have a homogeneous population.
so, you are turning to racism? how low!
Europe has been going down the toilet since the War.. As in ww2 with short work weeka and non sustainable vacation, pensions and benefits for employees. Low birth rates, so they bring in new blood that doesn’t “blend in” and whammo.. not only does it not help with propping up the employment, helping sustain pension funds etc.. But it’s a draw on each countries welfare system AND shows up as a major security risk as well.
Europe has shown the US 100% over the last 20y how NOT to fix low employment rates should they arise for various reasons.
Why that wall is being debated still is beyond me. Europe is living proof of it’s dire need.
Lol thinking a wall is going to solve all problems is hilarious. You can just reduce immigration but that wont stop the super rich from getting cheap labor from illegal immigrants. Got to remember before the Mexicans became villified the slaves provided free labor for many rich plantation owners.
Lose an arguement, call people racist, how intelligent, lol.
Your giving examples of very small countries and you should examine the suicide rates in these utopias that you think they are. Small countries can attempt to play around in. Socialism but eventually those ideals do not work as people continue to migrate to American from all over the world to get out of poverty.
They also mention countries with no defense budget cause big brother does it for them.
However sweeden and the like have figured out how to not get invaded by actually inviting them in.
The French are not too happy right now. Lots of other European countries in bad shape. Italy, Spain, Greece etc.
french president came to power as a centrist leaning left. his policies are mostly conservative. no wonder most french hate him now.
Macron is a former elitist banker but please tell me how he’s pro leftist as he’s cutting down labor laws and enriching his donors.
Are you serious , Macron is conservative? Macron is as far left as they come. Why do you think they are rioting? Gas taxes? He races everything and people feel like they can never catch up. Because he was an elite banker doesn’t mean he’s a capitalist. The think with socialist thinkers is they spin every bad example away from socialism and communism and attempt to sway people to believe it was capitalism that corrupted.
Those European countries have been at each others throat for well over a thousand years. saw u posted above that you are becoming a historian and you are probably well aware of that fact. There hasn’t been any 25y periods in that time I mentioned when the European countries, or 2 at least have not felt the need to make war with each other over some reason
Why the US looks to Europe for guidance on anything is beyond me. Many of those countries are dead broke, or headed that way. Some of the countries STILL dislike each other for various reasons. It will remain nothing more than a powder keg for incitement for probably centuries, yet here we have people mentioning the quasi socialist governments in some of the weaker states. It’s almost comical.
Yes, trickle down economics has been proven through trial and error not to work, and some socialist spending is necessary to help the poor and disabled, but there also need to be better limits on it in order to follow government budgets and encourage people to work when they’re able to do so.
Go ahead and raise taxes on the rich, but then pocket that money to lower the deficit and eventually start paying down the national debt rather than using it on more socialist spending.
players started making more because of unions. typical gains derived from socialism.
If unions are your best evidence, you’ve lost.
Unions were started to benefit workers and prevent horrendous working conditions.
They turned into give me your money so we can push an agenda you don’t agree with or else we lick you out or fire you.
Yep, socialism at its finest.
so, what did owners do before unions and free-agency? greedy capitalists at its finest.
Unions were started to benefit workers and prevent horrendous working conditions due to greedy capitalists like George Pullman.
That being said, there were industrialists like philanthropist Andrew Carnegie who did more good than bad. Unions served a vital purpose and still do. But like some corporations they can become too big and exploit as well.
Unions are actually advised by Karl Marx to be a good step towarda socialism but okay.
Keeping little kids arms from being chopped up in factories was a really good move on their part.
That’s pure nonsense. Players have a 1st amendment right of association, which includes entering into contractual agreements. Absolutely NOTHING about that is “socialist”.
Unions limit the best, smartest, most qualified, and reward the incompetant. Baseball union is different than virtually every other union, as baseball has monopoly and anti trust exemptions.
It’s amazing how people equate the MLB union to others isnt it?
Unions have become consumed with getting their “leaders” rich on the backs of the workers.
Look at the teachers union now.
Thousands of good teachers out of work because you can’t fire bad teachers, how the hell is that good for anybody?
Teacher Unions using political power to try and shut down suscessful charter schools.
Who exactly does that benifit?
It’s almost a mob like mentality with some unions. And no one benefits except the slime in charge and politicians with cheap votes
And how’s the trickle down economics treating us? I’m not saying socialism is the way to go, but I do know the way we’ve been going hasn’t worked. I’m sorry you feel terrified about liberals, we’re not all bad, just like we know not all conservatives are Steve King. People are looking for different ways to make our country better. I don’t have a problem with that.
Don’t lump us all together, that’s a big part of our problems as a country.
That was not my intent to lump all liberals together. I said many, not all.
Ah my apologies, I had “many liberals” in my head in a different context.
No, trickle down economics doesn’t work, but neither does excessive government spending on bloated socialist programs or military buildups. As far as a fiscal conservative like me is concerned, both major parties have long been headed in bad directions with their economic policies.
In this regard, I actually respect Bill Clinton, since he actually managed to balance the national budget for a while and had a plan for National Healthcare that would’ve worked a lot better than ObamaCare.
I’ve got to add to that part regarding Clinton…
As remember, it was the Republican congress’s “contract with America”, led by majority speaker newt Gingrich which led to that becoming fact. I doubt Clinton would have done that out of the goodness of his heart.
Gingrich was/is an eloquent speaker to the people and got his point out how important it was to actually balance the budget.
Look at it like this…
this country became the undisputed #1 in the world thru capitalism and remained that way. maybe 20y ago it started getting a bit tipsy on that title. Am I right? Why? The people? The generation who didn’t think, or want to work hard enough to keep the good old USA on top?
I read somewhere (yes, i don’t remember where) That this last generation was the only one which hadn’t out produced the previous in the history of the USA and remember chuckling to myself when read it, cause could believe it. my kid’s in his 30’s and know many of his friends also. The drive ain’t there.
How long will it take before Americans become like Europeans and want 1-2 month vacations and 30 hour work weeks?
Let me guess who wrote those articles….
I am an American, live in Holland. Socialism is not the big scary monster you’ve been taught. Quality of life here is excellent. The system isnt perfect and there will always be people who take advantage of it. But you can say that about most systems. You are obviously entitled to your own opinion, I am simply just offering my perspective of things.
Yes, many socialist states in Europe have good quality of life, Scandinavian countries particularly. That’s always the go to for pro socialism. Yet, other European countries are not. Eastern Europeans and Mediterranean countries. Both socialism and capitalism has its pros and cons, but capitalism appeals to me more. That’s just who I am. And it is ok to differ on our opinions.
if capitalism appeals to you more, who’s to stop you? why try to shove your political views onto others?
I don’t feel like he’s shoved anything on anyone. He’s expressed his opinion just like you have.
I believe I have the freedom to express my opinion in the country. I’m not trying to force my opinion on people, merely just stating my opinion. Some socialist countries seem to have a problem with that. And I guess with you too, but I’m not surprised the person defending socialism would have a problem with free speech.
Socialism and communism require forced participation from the entire population. So a small percentage of Americans want to enslave the rest of and the test of us are evil for wanting freedom. Let’s see, democrats lost the civil war, now they pretend to be on the side of “minorities” (as far as the planet as a whole is considered, white people are a minority). So the only People forcing their views on everyone is the left, because their views require it, while the rights core belief is freedom of the individual.
The Democrats lost the civil war 150 years ago. Nothing has ever changed in 150 years right?
It was also a South vs North slavery thing that started and to say otherwise when the Southern Confederate States had the exact same constitution as the United States except it had a provision allowing slavery (lol) is just foolish and blatant lying to yourself.
Cuba has nothing to do with your side or anyone else’s political affiliations. Reagan a conservative Republican allowed Hispanics from Cuba to come here and become legal citizens if they landed upon US land. He also had his CIA deal cocaine to black inner city folks in the US to fund his war in Nicaragua with the Contras but that’s a different story IE: Oliver North. This is a completely different ideology than that is currently employed by the sitting president who refuses to allow repressed hispanics to come into the country.
“He also had his CIA deal cocaine to black inner city folks in the US”
Lol, this is why you cant argue with people who make up their own facts.
Who were the CUA agents dealing the cocaine? Any names oh wise one?
Please you have google just type in ‘CIA cocaine” and “Oliver North Cocaine”.
It’s a proven fact they both dealt cocaine to fund the Contras as well as selling weapons to the Iranians post Revolution.
Hey now. Not all d!cks are lunatic liberal nut jobs. And as your average run of the mill calm and normal liberal, Vizionaire seems to be getting some things mixed up. But there’s no need to attack him for it.
“why try to shove your political views onto others”
Good point. STOP trying to shove that socialist crap on us in the US how about it?
Yeah I can Google “JFK assassinated by Asians” and some “facts” will come up. Lol
You know someone is lost when you ask them for facts and all they have is ‘google it”
Sorry, far left conspiracy theories aren’t facts.
Give me the names of the CIA dealers who were convicted of selling cocaine in the inner cities.
The names please.
Lol, socialism requires force.
That’s what hes against.
We have a huge country, let them have all the socialism they want in whatever state they want.
They wont do it because they know it will fail miserably.
It needs federal laws for everything.
If it’s such a great system, employ it fully in whatever states want it and let’s see what happens?
Have your $15 an hour minimum wage.
Free college and healthcare for all.
All the maternity, paternity, vacation time you want.
No citizenship required to qualify for any of these.
Do it, why cant one state just do it and if it’s such a raging success I’m sure others would follow.
But no, all must agree to our system, good luck with that.
Bill Cosby didn’t go to jail for rape and OJ Simpson didn’t go to jail for murder. It doesn’t mean they didn’t do it when there was overwhelming evidence these people did these things with information gathered about on them. The Intercept has lots of documents proving Oliver North and the CIA did these illegal things because they did as does many articles going back in time during when this was an actual scandal. North got off on a technicality with his infamous shredder getting rid of anything incriminating towards others involved.
Nobody went to jail for crashing the economy in 2009 even though there were banks that were proven to use fraud as a model to increase their profits.
On what planet do you see and hear people advocating for complete socialism? Let’s cut out the melodrama and stick to the facts, shall we?
What some folks are advocating are for elements of socialism to be expanded in our capitalistic society, specifically in the areas of welfare, healthcare and education. At face value, none of these ideas are evil or dangerous, though they are complex and grounds for debate regarding the extent of support the government should be expected to provide those less well off. At the very least, we should all be able to agree that some form of support should be provided to these individuals, with how much being the only relevant question or, better yet, how to help these individuals avoid being put in such a position in the first place.
And before you say it, no, people cheating the system and/or being lazy are irrelevant facts to consider since people have and will always continue to be, well, people. Besides, in such cases, it would be the task of our laws, rather than our policies, to curb such behavior.
More to the point, you could not possibly argue that loosely regulated capitalism here in the U.S. has worked out so hunky dory. Take one look at the current level of income disparity here and you would know that there is much room for improvement. Capitalism, like all economic systems, is flawed and imperfect, but not inherently evil or dangerous, either.
As per usual, people like you who reside on the extremes of issues and who fail to acknowledge the complexities of the issues at hand create problems for the rest of us with your own ignorance. Educate yourself and find your spot in the middle ground rather than whine about liberals or conservatives because, let’s face it, both sides are stupid. That, however, doesn’t excuse your own ignorance.
Since, as you so astutely pointed out, this is a baseball blog, I will cap my response here and refrain from following up.
Insult people, then get your say in, then say you wont respond after saying you should listen to both sides.
Lol, snowflake of decade.
I used to champion baseball fans as the smartest of all sports fans. After reading all these pro-commie posts, I was severely mistaken. Yall need the Good Book in your lives:
Basic Economics by Thomas Sowell
Upvote for the surprise “good book”
You gave me a chuckle. Thank you.
Under capitalism, man exploits his fellow man…….Under socialism, the reverse is true …..
Meanwhile, let’s restrict player movement and cap bonuses as much as we can……
Yep, in socialism the reverse is true, fellow man exploits man, because neither of them have any incentive to work hard or in some cases to even bother looking for a job.
Cuba has it’s flaws (as do the Castro’s), but don’t just discredit the entirety of a very complex economic philosophy (Socialism/Communism/Marxism) just because Turning Point USA and Fox News told you so… And yes, I know the “SJW’s” can be annoying/dumb as hell, but most leftists aren’t like that, the media (CNN/FOX) is only one painting that picture. Interestingly enough, Bernie Sanders isn’t even rejecting capitalism like most conservative outlets claim, all he wants is social safety nets, so that folks can have the tools necessary to get back on their feet ‘if’ they’re going through hard times.
This is a baseball website, not a political convention, we should be celebrating the influx of more talent entering the MLB rather than being upset that we made a deal with Cuba. If your worried about that, then what do you think other countries think about us? Because it’s not like we’re a benevolent nation either…
I know, this forum is meant for purely baseball related talk. I apologized in my commit for the political argument that unfolded. I just have an enormous disagreement with that philosophy, and I could not help myself from posting that. Again, I apologize.
I am a conservative but I can see the value in socialist aspects of a government. There are countries who have found somewhat of a happy medium in socialist ways, but just know if you go that route, the prices of things go up all around you, like a hamburger lunch is $30 (Iceland) or your pay is hit cuz of crazy taxes to pay for everyone else. It’s not all perfect even in the countries where it is more prevalent. I come from the thinking that you work for all you get. Some have a harder path but there is countless proof that people can overcome obstacles to get to where you want to go. Has my life been pampered and easy, no, but I know I worked for all I got and that is the principle I will pass down to my future generations. Would my perspective be the same if I was down and out on luck, who knows, but I do know that even some of those who live out of their car end up in good places through hard work. Meaning it can be done. Should we help those who need it, of course, and should those extremely well off share some of their wealth and resources, of course…that’s just common sense good humanity, but should anyone be forced to, well that’s where I run into issues. Socialism sounds amazing, but Just like no socialist governments, there are plenty of issues and holes that come up.
Socialist institutions: Police department. Fire department. Hospitals. Libraries. The military. Public schools. Highways. But explain again how socialism is terrible.
Some socialist aspects are fine, but if you go overboard with them, then big problems occur. If you go so far as to base the entire economy around it, it just doesn’t work and usually results in an oppressive dictatorship.
Also, several of those examples are not actually socialist. Highways and public schools are, but public libraries run mostly on donations, while the others are just examples of government run capitalist functions. Emergency workers and soldiers still earn their paychecks, and hospitals also get a lot of their bills paid by various private insurance companies.
Okay, public libraries do run mostly on taxes. I was wrong about that.
On the flip side, no government regulations on the economy just leads to rampant monopolization, price fixing and stagnant wages for the working class
Which is kind of what i meant earlier by pros and cons. You too far in either direction and it leads to trouble, so just blanketly saying one is good and one is bad is really a dangerous over simplification
Public libraries are run almost entirely on tax dollars. So is the military. So is your local and state police force. So is your federal police force. So is the White House and all of its denizens. So is the public highway system. So is your local trash pickup. So is your local road crew. So is Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid (to an extent).. Other socialist institutions: public schools, any and all governmental bodies. from the city council to the President and all points in-between. Churches (they don’t pay taxes and so we pay for them to exist).
So basically the police , social security, Medicaid and the politicians are all socialist programs/institutions.
So why are people saying all the time they are corrupt and broken?
We need more things in the country run like the public schools, city councils and Medicaid? You are making the other sides arguement perfectly, lol.
And you do not pay for churches to exist, just a complete lie.
You sound like a disingenuous bitter hippie.
Oh, we don’t pay for churches to exist? Then who pays their property taxes?
Churches are built through private donations or church funds.
They pay no taxes as per our constitution of seperation of church and state.
Something far left ideologues like yourself love because you hate religion in any public form.
Police stations, public building, highway construction and salaries for employees are all funded with tax dollars.
Churches get zero.
Horrible to lump them in, my guess is you did for your own personal reasons.
Would you like churches to pay taxes to exist? That would be great, now they can force you to pay for their churches without your consent through taxation.
Oh wait, that would be wrong and you would definitely oppose your taxes going to their buildings and employees.
You would probably tell them to build their own churches and pay for their own employees, you know, like they do now, lol.
Left wing ideoulouges, as dumb as they come.
You obviously don’t know me if you think I am ooposed to churches or religion; the point is, churches getting to operate tax free, in prime real-estate, is certainly a form of socialsm; No other private entity – especially ones that are not used by most people – could ask for a sweetheart deal on property taxes from the government the way Churches have per the Constitution. This of course has the ancillary effect of driving up property taxes for people who don’t run churches, and, of course, means lots of organizations try to game the system by referring to themselves as “churches.”
You should check out what Joel Osteen’s house looks like sometime.
hoover dam that lights up many baseball fields.
Is this the first step towards the end of Cuban Communism?! Hallelujah!
Okay, I’m just joking (mostly), but it is nice to see the U.S. and Cuba work towards a mutual agreement about something. A journey of a thousand miles…and all that.
Forget this. If a player defects, highest bidder wins. Buyers beware. Not all defectors pan out. Gov’t does not need to be involved just to cater to baseball.
Maybe 1 rule: bidder can’t win two players in a row. There. Done.
It’s about providing better safety and opportunities to Cuban players while forging a better relationship with Cuba, not anything having to do with competitive balance.
It’s also about protecting the Cuban league as an entity. If MLB plunders it of all it’s talent in short order, the league just dies because the fans stop coming.
It’s why there’s agreements like this in place for Japan and Korea. To protect them as a viable business and keep the counties interested in baseball
That only applies if the Asian players are already under contract, but Cuba is attempting to control ALL talent, regardless of age or team control. The Cuban leagues will someday be part of the Minor League system anyway when they have a team in Havana, so in the meantime, let the Cubans root for the Marlins or Rays.
“No provision to allow for scouting in Cuba”, can someone clarify what this means please? Our scouts can’t go over there to check out players? We would have to rely whatever info they give us on a certain player or what?
i was thinking about posting the same question when discussions about political systems made me totally forget about that. anyway, as of now, u.s. citizens cannot go to cuba directly. so that has to be solved before we can send scouts.
I thought we COULD go there directly (without having to stop in Mexico or somewhere else), because didn’t Puig, Kershaw, and a few other Dodgers go there last off-season for something? This is confusing, so how have Cuban players been scouted? By Cuban scouts with us having to take their word for how good a player is, or do we use MLB scouts and only see the Cuban players when they travel to other countries to play?
it was an agreement between the 2 countries but could not be ratified by the congress controlled by the ‘esteemed’ party. it is still illegal for u.s. citizens to travel to cuba. however, as you described, some people would go to other countries and enter cuba. i doubt anyone has been jailed for that, though.
remind me like the npb posting system.
Cuban power play to keep their talent longer than they should. If we did that to the Dominican or Puerto Rico people would be up in arms.
part of the deal should have been that Cuba will allow cuban born players here to play for team Cuba during the WBC…
this deal sucks
Have you seen the specifics of the actual agreement to know this is true?
Even if it is, would that make it a deal breaker?
I’m guessing that if Jose Abreu wanted to play for team Cuba in a future WBC all parties would be amenable. Who would he play for otherwise? Team USA? Team whatever his sanctuary country was after he defected and before he signed an MLB contract?
Basically, who cares? As it is now, anyone who has Italian ancestry can play for team Italy. Anybody who is at least half Jewish can play for team Israel. I’ve also heard than anyone who owns more than two pairs of clogs is eligible for team Netherlands!
Before engaging in the further political rhetoric, I strongly urge all posters to click on the league’s formal announcement link in the article. It’s not only extremely important to do so from a baseball perspective but would also give needed insight into how the Cuban players who had defected in the past feel about this new arrangement. Perhaps this will put a stop to some of this bickering or at least give everybody a look into this controversial accord through they eyes of human beings who actually dealt with the previous alternative.
So getting away from this political debate with communism and socialist minds pushing a belief and distorting a reality what players in Cuba should we look forward to now being listed to come over immediately and help teams?
Thank you MLB. Thank you for negotiating a deal with the longest standing dictatorship in the history of the western hemisphere, allowing them to receive a huge influx of money, plus they get to keep players hostages until they are 25, with players having 0 leverage. In President Trump we trust!
the longest standing dictatorship is n. korea.
n. korea’s dictator family since 1945. cuban revolution by castro and others, 1953.
“Western Hemisphere” hint hint……..and Castro took over in 59, btw.
Vizionaire’s vision is limited!
that may be true. but i’m not an odd man(really?) out!
This deal effectively turns Cuban players into slaves until turning 25! If before they were treated like dirt, and paid meager wages which were not enough to even feed their families, imagine now that MLB has left them with 0 leverage, you either shape up under the FCB (the Cuban govt for all intended purposes), or you scape and wait two signing periods to sign. After 6 years of dutiful service, they earn the right to be posted in a slave auction. Trying to draw a parallel between this and Japan/Korea is idiotic at best, hypocrisy at worst. In Asia players are fairly compensated, in accordance to their talent level, while living in freedom, in Cuba they will be paid meagerly, while living under a dictatorship with horrible human rights record!
“Others are eligible to sign with MLB teams under the same system as other international amateurs.” basically using the bonus pool.
There is no “other” alternative in Cuba. There are no private academies, there are no team academies, etc. If you want to play baseball, there is the FCB, or you don’t play baseball.
have you seen cuban kids playing in minor leagues? they are not in fcb.
That was before this agreement! Come on, keep up. Let’s try to have an intelligent debate.
“Only Cuban players who have a playing contract with the FCB (“FCB Players”) are covered by the Agreement. Any Cuban player who does not have a contract with the FCB is eligible to sign with any MLB Club to the same extent as any other unsigned international amateur.”