SUNDAY: Houston has announced the extension.
SATURDAY: The Astros have reached an agreement with right-hander Justin Verlander on a two-year, $66MM extension, Mark Berman of FOX 26 Houston reports. The deal will keep Verlander, a client of ISE Baseball, in Houston through the 2021 season.
It has been a remarkable few seasons for Verlander, who’s set to complete the final season of a five-year, $140MM extension signed prior to the ’13 campaign. Lagging velocity and some health issues led to messy 2014 and 2015 seasons, but Verlander recovered admirably, finishing out his Tigers tenure in good form before being shipped to the ’Stros.
Verlander has now reached his 36th birthday, but you wouldn’t know it from the way he pitched last year. Over 214 frames, he worked to a 2.52 ERA with 12.2 K/9 against just 1.6 BB/9. And it wasn’t just the work of a crafty veteran who somehow managed to squeeze out one last good season from what was left of his stuff. Verlander averaged over 95 mph with his dominating fastball and jumped to a 14.5% swinging-strike rate — easily the highest mark of his storied career.
There’s an argument to be made that Verlander was never better than in 2018. He didn’t tally the same volume of great innings that he did in the vintage seasons of his youth, but Verlander’s insane 30.4% K%-BB% was nearly twice his career average. That level of unadulterated dominance is typically reserved for elite late-inning relievers who mostly unleash their arsenal in one-inning bursts. Statcast actually felt that Verlander was unlucky to permit opposing batters a paltry .260 wOBA. The contact they made against him was so weak that the advanced system credited those hitters with a .236 xwOBA.
Locking up Verlander – the third in a series of late-spring Astros extensions – brings at least some degree of clarity to a future rotation mix that seemed hazy at best. With both Verlander and Gerrit Cole set to hit the market after the upcoming campaign, and emerging frontliner Lance McCullers Jr. on the shelf until at least Opening Day 2020, Houston’s level of concern vis-á-vis the top end of the rotation had reached urgent heights. Collin McHugh was lassoed back from the bullpen, but none of the club’s glut of emerging arms – Cionel Perez, Framber Valdez, Josh James, Forrest Whitley, Corbin Martin, and J.B. Bukauskas among them – would likely be prepared to lead a staff in the upcoming seasons, especially one with designs on another AL crown.
The club still has more to work to do, of course (old friend Dallas Keuchel is still out there), but with just $108MM on the 2020 books even with the extensions divvied to Verlander, Alex Bregman, and Ryan Pressly, there should be plenty of room with which to maneuver. A Cole deal seems further off, and riskier still given his third-starter track record in the two seasons prior to ’18, but the club’s tech-blazed path to improvement with so many of its hurlers, centered on bolstering spin rates with pitches both fast and slow, should certainly be a mark in its favor. Houston, under Jeff Luhnow, has always been loath to part from the cream of its crop, so a high-profile trade for a top-end arm wouldn’t seem to be in the cards.
Regardless, with ace now in tow, the Astros have widened their window considerably. In addition to Cole, only George Springer, among the team’s stars, is set to hit the open market between now and when Verlander’s contract expires at the end of 2021, and the team has its floodgates set wide open in hopes that another homegrown star or two will wash ashore.
MLB.com’s Mark Feinsand was the first to report the two sides were “moving toward” an extension (via Twitter). Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic was first with the proposed figures (Twitter link). Photo courtesy of USA Today Sports Images.
That would be great!
it is the right number of years at his age and it just seems like a good deal for both sides…..The Astros are doling out the extension cash these days, because they are still clearly within their championship window……
2 years 66 million?!?? Are they serious? Wow they overpaid. He probably would have signed a 2 year 33 million contract with Houston. He has money, at this point it’s about winning. Houston fail. Sorry
You obviously don’t know much about Verlander.
Ok bandwagon. Verlander is not worth 33 million a year. Your team made a desperate move and overpaid for him. You’re in denial bud.
Given how Verlander has performed since joining the Astros, it is you who is in denial there Mr RedFeather.
2.32 ERA. 2.77 FIP 12.1 SO/9. 0.867 WHIP Led the league in SO, WHIP and games started. Yeah, its a huge overpay. LMAO.
I think it’s just jealousy from RedFeather since the Cardinals have no one close to that good.
I shouldn’t feel so inclined to step in when fellow Cardinal fans say dumb things but I do. Verlander is a top starter and completely dominant. No reason to risk losing a guy like that. He’s older but trending upwards and a two year commitment doesn’t come with the huge risk a younger pitcher would command. This deal makes sense for both
And he’s here to mentor some of the young pitchers coming up. Couldn’t ask for anyone better at this point.
I think it’s an overpay, but why not? Even if he bombs out, not likely, it’s still only 2 years.
I beg to differ…. I think Flaherty can be that good. Doesn’t have the track record but the stuff is there.
You are an idiot
No, you’re wrong on this one, Red. This is one of the top 5 productive starters in baseball but thats not the only reason for such a high aav. Part of the cost of doing such a short term contract is high AAV’s. You dont want to sign a pitcher in his mid 30’s to 4 years or more. Had they been willing to do that maybe the AAV could have been lowered to $25 million a year. The Astros made a good choice in this case.
You should be. You obviously forget about Nolan Ryan.
Verlander is one of the best pitchers in the league right now, he deserves a high salary. And wow, you know Verlander? Related or just a friend? If not then you have no idea what he wants or what it’s about for him. Not every player is willing to sacrifice money towards the end of their career to win.
Man what a stupid, stupid comment.
LOL, 34 starts, 200+ innings, 2.52 ERA, 290 Ks in 2018
You’re either an ignorant troll or just ignorant.
Wow, No desperation evident in YOUR post.
Would be pretty amazing if Verlander got a higher AAV deal than Chris Sale, considering the age difference.
He’s a better pitcher.
Yup
Chris Sale needs to gain about 50 pounds to help his durability and endurance, having only four 200-inning seasons in the last seven, while Verlander-Upton has had 11 out of the last 12. He has to stop these epic late-season collapses when his team needs him the most.
If they could do a fat transplant from CC Sabathia to Chris Sale, we’d be set with two pitchers in the AL East.
Did you say only 4 in the laat 7?
No, they said last.
Love the hyphenation!!
Sale is a better pitcher. not just last year but for his career too.
baseball-reference.com/players/s/salech01.shtml
baseball-reference.com/players/v/verlaju01.shtml
health factors included, I’d rather have Verlander at 2 years than Sale at 5
Age factors and AAV included, I’d rather have 5 of Sale than 2 of Verlander.
I rather have Verlander and Sales!!
I wanted both next year
Imagine when Astro learn and follow new trend and only deploy top starter for less than 6 inning. Snell won Cy Young with less than 6 inning per start. Only face lineup two time most nights. When Astro do this with Verlander, his numbers probably become more insane. Also hope to see if Astro math Kong’s help Verlander learn how and why to reduce homerun proneness.
Verlander is a throwback pitcher. He gives the bullpen a day off. I doubt they will utilize him like that until he gets closer to 40 and his stuff starts to diminish.
I’d rather have 6 in I of highly effective than 5 of ‘insane’. Both still give me great odds of winning the game but the former doesn’t tax my bullpen nearly as much.
Considering this isn’t a video game, ‘insane’ numbers don’t actually mean a lot to a manager.
Another insane number that comes from Ace starter short inning deployment? Pitcher wins. Snell is small sample proof that still needs more testing but initial results look promising.
Verlander is throw back but also listens and learns and has goal of pitching into mid forties and getting 300 wins. If he becomes 5 inning sizzle man, then he gets more wins and more longevity.
Bullpen save? Not good strategy, in my opinion. 5 year goal, multiple championships? Then each year burn through young fireball penmen. Lean on coaching to create bullpens, not buy ragged arm or proven closer for too much.
I would respond this if I had any idea what half of it meant…
Read with your mind, understand with your heart:)
@perrie, lmao
@perrie, lmao
oops, Petrie
To me, this reads like they’d rather a shorter commitment with Verlander to give Whitley, James, Martin and the rest of the guys in the minors a chance to establish themselves at the big league level with an established vet ace to help them. After two years, they can dip back into the market.
They could always reup Cole, but as of now, it looks like they’d rather JV short term than Vole over 6 years.
That, and the fact that he’s 36 years old.
I agree. Would prefer Verlander to be a mentor for the young guys rather than commit to Cole for over 5 years… plus Verlander looks like he has plenty in the tank for the next couple years. Hopefully it stays that way.
Not to mention Cole’s agent doesnt have the best reputation in HOU.
Since when?
Maybe in the early 2000s, but Boras hasn’t really screwed the Astros any more than he has another team.
I actually think Boras might be getting cold shoulder from front office now. And many old school open door owners are gone now so he can’t get the sweet heart deals no more. Keuchel and Kimbrel not sign shows many a lot.
Ejemp2006……….
Boras isn’t Kimbrel’s agent.
Cat, let’s not let the facts get in the way of a good negative.
Boras is the Astros best player’s agent and the team got an incredible deal both in his first contract and in the most recent extension.
Thank you! Why have I had a broken thought for so long!!! I had wrong belief Kimbrel and Boras were linked!!
Changes much of my analysis!!!
Wish they go at least 3 years
He’s got one more year on his existing. So they have him for 3.
I’m starting to get really frustrated. Would love for the cubs to sign a couple of their own guys to long-term deals. Why wouldn’t they want to sign an extension with Bryant, Baez and Rizz? I get with Rizz they can wait in case he falls, and Baez is unpredictable, but someone!!! What’s the point of having a young core when they just leave in FA. It’s kind of funny to see 3 of the top 5 cubs contracts in their history have been from other team’s players/FA. Please throw a truck load of money at Bryant, Rizz, Baez! I want them to be cubs for remainder of careers.
Bryant is never staying
You’re basing this off what exactly?
He filed an official grievance against the Cubs. I’m not saying he won’t sign with them, but that is evidence that should be considered.
I’m sure if Bryant wants to stay the cubs would make it happen. the fact that an extension or even rumors of one is probably an indication that he might want to test the open market
I’ve considered it and it’s still kind of a massive jump in logic to go from there to ‘he’s never staying’.
Especially in the face of a lack of any other evidence that he’s unhappy in Chicago
He already turned down a $200 million extension two years ago. He’s either after the biggest contract he can get or bitter at the Cubs for how they kept him in the minors to extend his arbitration years.
That store has been refuted by both sides. Multiple times.
Bryant not stay in NL, if smart. Already throwing shoulder health problem and young? Needs league for a DH!! Like him for a Yankee someday.
Wow Yoda is a Yankees fan.
they’re stuck paying Heyward and Darvish for 5 more years at around $20 million a piece.
Lester two more years
You realize Lester is still a very capable pitcher right? Don’t think any fans should be complaining aboit his contract.
Look at the Cubs CBT tax salaries this year.
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VJ9nVwD1eUJabnL9tu…
They are $21 million over the CBT threshold for 2019 and cannot extend anyone until they clear more salaries off the book. After this season they will have $57 million coming off the books and the CBT level will be going up to $208 million so they can start thinking about getting some extensions done then.
Cubs had their year in the sun. Maddon’s a loser by nature. Smart players get out of Chicago as soon as they can.
Another Ace off the board. Who will NY sign now??
Made hundreds of millions, ws title, cy youngs, and Kate upton as your wife……
….sighhhhhh…..lucky dude
He worked his a** to earn it. Luck has nothing to do with his success.
I don’t see him saying luck had anything to do with it. Or you responded to the wrong post..
And I understand the difference between lucky dude and luck was on his side for what he’s become.. I think you misinterpreted his comment
Many people work their asses off just as much as he does and will never see the riches that man has. He is indeed a lucky dude.
He’s actually quite lucky, considering the number of pitchers of his caliber who have flamed out due to injury.
Luck has nothing to do with having a high 90s fastball?
It’s luck to be born in a strong, big, healthy body, but there are people like this in every country. I live in Germany and NOBODY throws a high 90s fastball, because few people play baseball. So yes, it takes hard work to achieve it and if you don’t you probably don’t have a healthy body, the wrong coaches or you never tried hard enough
I dont think being healthy and working hard is all it takes. Major league players make up the smallest fraction of players. Believe it or not even to be successful at AA means you’re pretty damn good at baseball.
I think it also takes talent that most people dont have as well has physical traits, such as hand-eye coordination and twitch response that most dont have.
Having a big strong frame also helps, particularly as a pitcher. Im a healthy 5’9, 171 lbs. It’s difficult to imagine my body plan allows me to pitch at 90 mph. If I could some how put that much energy into a baseball, I imagine the tork and strain it would put on my arm and shoulder my body wouldnt put up with that for long before something breaks.
Don’t forget MVP as well.
And likely Hall of Famer, too. If he gets 250+ wins, then he will be first ballot HOFer.
Considering they are at big risk of losing cole this makes sense. Despite verlanders age he hasn’t slowed down and it’s a short term deal
Cole will probably be next honestly. Eventually they’ll have to look at Correa but after a down/injury season last year they could easily wait a little bit also.
He’s a Boras client which could be a problem
Exactly. Except for your disagreement with me about Machado, you seem to be one of the better posters here. I thought Verlander was through a few years ago. Now he’s gone from a borderline hall of famer to a no doubt hall of famer. How much longer can he keep it up? He’s amazing.
We all know what Boras’s strat and his rep has been for years, but even he can’t be blind to what’s happening in this market right now. Yes the Astros might have to overpay a bit to get him to listen, but if they want it done bad enough it’ll happen. I’m sure Gerrit is well aware of the current predicament of another notable SP also represented by Boras…oh wait, ironically also from the same team…
Surprised that players haven’t started moving away from Boras yet. One player after another is signing extensions for $30M+. Yet Boras can’t get a deal for Dallas and Harper’s annual salary is significantly less than the contracts being signed over the past few weeks. Granted $300M isn’t chump change, but Boras has to change his strategy and do so quickly.
ROTFLMAO. The largest deal in the history of the game at that point and Boras has to change his strategy? You are funny.
I guess this needs to be said, once again: The player’s agent works for the player. If Keuchel said to Boras, “I want to play for the Orioles, but I don’t want to be paid more than $3M a season for a 5-year deal”, it is the legal obligation of Boras to make that happen. However nuts it might seem in the demands, those come from the expectations of the player.
The agents work to get top dollar for their client, and work the angles and massage the deal to get what the player wants (or close to it), but if Cole says he wants to work out an extension with the Astros instead of going through FA next Winter, Boras must follow through. As point of reference, see the extension Boras client Jered Weaver signed with the Angels instead of going through FA. Many agents thought Weaver left money on the table by not going through FA, but he is a SoCal boy who didn’t want to play for any other team. He directed his agent to negotiate an extension to his contract, and remained an Angels for several seasons to come. Cole could do exactly that, if he wants. My guess is, he doesn’t, but that isn’t because his agent is pulling the strings.
Astros won’t resign Cole. Verlander will anchor and mentor Whitley, Martin, Bukauskas and James and don’t forget McCullers if he bounces back from TJ. Astros have plenty of starting talent in the pipeline. They will not be able to afford Cole on top of Altuve, Bregman and Springer and Correa, if the plan is to keep those two. Cole will be a Yankee next year.
Couldn’t agree more. Even losing Cole they will be in great shape if they extend Verlander. Rotation could be something like Verlander, Whitley, McCullers, and then 2 of McHugh, James, Bukauskas, Valdez. This team still has a bright future.
Cole will be with the angels
He will if he wants to be, but I doubt the Angels will be the most aggressive bidder for Cole. He will most likely have the choice of a ton of money from the Angels, or 1.5 tons of money from the Yankees, et al.
I wouldn’t even touch Correa if I’m the Astros. I’d rather try and keep Springer than Correa
The Astros are neck deep in OF. Springer is expendable.
Leadership, a clubhouse presence and a fan favorite is not so easily expendable
They can let Cole walk and focus on Springer and Correa. They have Whitley, James and others waiting in the wings
I’m sure Cole will walk at seasons end, but next year with Verlander and Mcullers back, hopefully Whitley, their rotation looks pretty solid moving forward
Wait, doesnt he have a $20 million vesting option for 2020 if he finishes top 5 in Cy Young? So what happens to Vesting Opt? Is it just cancelled out due to the extension essentially replacing that year?
Verlander agreed, at the time of the trade to Houston, to void the extra option year.
Ah, thanks for the info
Al Avila volunteered to pay 1/3 of the cost of JV’s extension with the Astros.
That’s my dude! Love that he’s gonna be sticking around.
I don’t know if I agree that the Verlander trade was the most notable August trade in history. The Red Sox/Dodgers trade in 2012 which saw Adrian Gonzalez, Josh Beckett, and Carl Crawford go to LA for prospects was probably more notable. It set up the Red Sox for a payroll reset which led them to the 2013 WS title and positioned the Dodgers as a significant spender which led them to 6 straight division titles.
Without Verlander Houston doesn’t win the WS. They really don’t compare.
The Astros are doing this better than anyone in baseball right now. They remain an elite team with an elite farm that will keep them in contention for a while
Many different directions they can go
Watch the Braves jump in and trade for Gerrit Cole. Make it happen AA!
What is going on in Houston? Not saying that PEDs are definitely the answer, but there are some flags. Verlander regains his velocity and is suddenly better than he was when he was in his prime, Cole has always had top of the rotation potential-but as soon as he got to Houston he is a maniac, how the hell did Charlie Morton become a dominant SP?, Springer used in HS and that’s well known in CT and I wouldn’t be surprised if he still does, love Altuve but hes 3 feet tall and crushes(I’d bet he is clean, but it adds to the Astros oddities), every damn season an Astros top prospect is getting popped in the Minors, and if anyone says Ken Giles is/was clean then you can fight me. I really like the team… but if I would not be suprised if 10 years from now we hear stories about rampant use in Houston during this time. Kind of like Bagwell,Biggio,Clemens,Pettite,ect. Back in the day.
Is that you Tyler Bauer?
Right!?!
Tyler,
Verlander didn’t gain velocity, he gained an insane amount of data which aided in what he had already been working on in Det. before the trade. Cole ALWAYS had an extremely high ceiling and once in Hou., changed his pitch selection (might also say he was a perfect/ideal “change of scenery” guy who landed in one of the top clubhouses). Charlie “f’n” Morton’s issue always seemed to be health related, but he too benefited from changing percentages of pitches he threw. Not from CT and honestly first hearing about Springer. Altuve… launch angle… (see Mookie). Having somewhat high hopes dashed with Giles… definitely not worth fighting over! As far as minor leaguers… could easily see the temptation for someone who is so close to reaching a life time goal making a bad decision…
Went to Detroit in 2014 to watch Verlander. He may have hit 93 on the gun a couple times. He was working 91-92. Something didn’t seem right. I thought he was pitching through some form of pain, arm or otherwise. He even bounced a routine grounder to first base, badly. Uncharacteristic for Verlander.
I think the time on the shelf in 2015 gave him some time to heal and make adjustments. I wouldn’t rush to point to PEDs. I think he needed some rest. 9 years in a row with 30 or more starts and 8 years in a row with over 200 innings. Now he’s back. Top starters are always the big ticket game to watch. Glad he’s back to form.
Wrong. Verlander is pitching a full nph faster FB avg since joining Houston. Check the stats before claiming hes not throwing harder. Cole has always had potential LIKE I SAID (or did you not read that part) but to come to Houston and become as dominant as he has along with everyone else who goes to Houston and becomes a HOF pitcher is suspect, Morton wasnt some guy who had huge potential but was always injured… he has plenty of history for us to judge. Before going to Houston: 891 innings pitched with a 6.3 K/9. Since joining Houston in 2 seasons: 10 k/9 and 10.8 k/9. Yeah pitch selection is all that’s keeping these guys from becoming Roger Clemens. You’re right….. And as far as minor leaguers trying PEDs because they are close to reaching the majors, that makes NO SENSE. These are top prospects. Martes, Deetz,Paulino… if you can sympathize with them, why cant we sympathize with anyone else? How about Major league players who are trying to keep their job or trying to reach their dreams of becoming a HOFer or winning a WS or hitting a big contract before retiring and setting up their family for life? Altuve launch angle is not as simple as you make it seem. If that’s what makes a 5 foot 2 guy (hes shrinking by the day) hit like Piazza in his prime, then everyone should be able to do it. Finally, you need to remember that I was clear when I said there’s no direct link between Verlander, Altuve, Morton, Cole, and others to PEDs. Only that there are serious flags. When Houston is having top prospects popped every season for PEDs, guys are coming to Houston and all becoming Roger Clemens, having a known PED user patrolling CF,and having a team history of abusers (yes obviously all teams had users, but nobody can deny that Houston was a hotbed during the early-mid 2000s)… all of this is weird and I wouldn’t be surprised we hear about it in the future. Maybe add in some pine tar use, or are you suggesting there’s no way they use that to increase spin rates in Houston?
A mph increase since when? Verlander regularly touched 100mph in his earlier days. And it’s no surprise that in the years he was injured his velocity decreased. To have a velo bounceback while finally being healthy again seems quite normal.
Nothing in the world makes you a better pitcher than knowing your team will score runs and vice versa. The Astros cheat. Whether or not the cheating involves pharmaceuticals is open to debate. Going from a team that stinks to a really good team is a huge motivator. The fact that the team cheats may or may not be a part of that. Verlander is a really good pitcher and maybe it’s all legit. What else do we know?
Maybe the pitching coaches have something to do with it?
Any facts to support your “Astros cheat” claim?
That’s what I’m saying. All I was pointing out, is the flags. Whether or not there are PEDs involved or Pine Tar on the baseballs or whatever else, we dont have proof of (beyond those cuaght). But to say that all these guys go to Houston and are reborn as Gods and it’s just because pitch selection and being healthy… that’s denial. Also… Chris,his Avg FB was hovering around 92 and 93 in 13, 14 and 15. Was he hurt for 3 seasons? If he was, how can a guy be so hurt-yet still pitch 34,32,and 20 games during those seasons- and then come back to pitch how he is now at 36 years old? Rest? So because he only pitched 20 games instead of 30 in 2015, those 10 games off is just what he needed to become a cy young winner again? If that’s the case, I wonder why 3 seasons of spring train in ng time off wasnt enough. Bottom line is that Verlander shouldnt be having this late career dominance. Everytime this happens, we all say it’s because (fill in the blank) is special and a physical freak. Then a few years later we find out the truth. Of course there are always those who truly are special enough to have a later career peak without help (hello Randy Johnson), but unfortunately it’s rare and along with all the other “coincidences” in Houston, the money is on some form of cheating.
Dude you have issues. You need to worry about your Indians.
And all the players & coaches & front office personnel that has moved on to other teams has kept quiet about it. Yeah right. Gtfoh
Uhhhhh…. do you remember the 90s-2000s? How about Cano,Dee Gordon, Johnny Peralta, Nelson Cruz, Grandal, Ervin Santana, Jorge Polanco,Wellington Castilla, Starling Marte, Steven Wright… yeah the staff and teammates are chomping at the bit to tell on each other. I think you are the one that needs to gtfoh and read a little history.
Until you show me bonafide proof the Astros are cheating, I’m gonna take your “flags” with a grain of salt. Three mostly-minor-league players getting busted doesn’t mean guys like Verlander and Alture are cheating.
“Pine tar use”. Thanks Trevor Bauer….
Yeah cause Bauer said it, that means it has to be dismissed. That makes total sense.
It’s meant to be with a grain of salt… it’s not evidence (besides those already caught). Its simply stating the clear oddities and comparing them with what history has already taught us. I’m not claiming to have the syringes Verlander stuck in his butt
I’m still trying to figure out what oddities you’re talking about. Oddities like analytics?
Oddities like a 5 foot 2 guy hitting like miguel Cabrera, Verlander getting better into his late 30s and increasing his velocity and spin rate, top prospects getting popped yearly in Houston, guys like Morton, McHugh, Pressely, and more… coming to Houston and becoming prime Randy Johnsons, and the history that we all know about Houston and how they were one of about 5 MLB teams that were a roid factory not too long ago that players would sign with to have a career year and then sign a huge contract. Those are oddities. But let’s just ignore the past and believe that MLB testing is impeccable and people like Cano were just so desperate to ruin their legacy and so they just had to cheat even though MLB testing is so amazing and they were guaranteed to get caught. It’s so insane to suggest that there is something going on in Houston and we should just ignore it because MLB would never allow such a thing to occur, no matter how much more money is made by people smashing HRs and strikeout numbers going up.
If you watched Verlander pitch in those pre-injury days, you would understand. He never threw at anything close to his max velo until a runner got on base. So his average pitch velocity means very little. He would often throw 91-93 for most of the game, but when he got in a pinch he would light it up to 99 or 100.
If they’re a team that ‘cheats’ and ‘uses’ PEDS then WHY DID THEY LOSE 300+ GAMES IN THREE SEASONS?!
What arguement is that? Houston came out of nowhere with this bullsh*t ability to turn anyone into a Cy Young winner and now they’re a yearly favorite to win the division. Dr Erskine must be working for them.
“10 years from now we hear stories about rampant use in Houston during this time”
Get real. PED testing is so much more intense in today’s game
HAHA yeah those tests are unavoidable. Are you kidding?
Also I’m not an Indian fan. I’m a Mets fans, but I actually like the Astros because of their talent. Idc if someone is cheating and not being caught. Once they’re caught, ban them for life,but until then… good for them. Mac vs Sosa was the greatest time to watch baseball and IDC if they used. But to anyone who denied they were using, despite the obvious signs, those people are in denial. And yes… the same goes for Houston. If you dont question what’s going on, you are ignorant. If the testing is so amazing, why are players still being caught? There are ways around it. You think Cano just randomly tried using last season? You think Cruz just kept hitting HRs and didnt drop off after being caught, because he just got better with old age? How about Yasmany Grandal? You’re seriously going to sit there on your bean bag chair all naked and eating a corn dog and try to tell me that Eric Thames learned how to hit 31 hrs in Japan??? Put your clothes on, open your eyes, and realize that testing is ALWAYS avoidable and the only people who get caught are those who make stupid mistakes or dont have the $ to pay for the best products to help avoid + Tets (minor leaguers).
Cruz hit 40, 44, 43, 39 and 37 home runs after he was involved in the biogenesis sting
If I don’t question what’s going on, I’m ignorant? Ok….
Brent Strom is their pitching coach, a guy who brings the old school mentality to the new school of analytics, which if you’ve read up on, Houston’s analytics department is one of the best in the game in which they’ve brought out the best of their players
Collin McHugh was 0-8 with an 8.94 ERA before he came to Houston and has become an effective pitcher since then whether in the rotation or out of the bullpen. Ryan Pressly turned from a reliever into an unhittable force
Their pitching staff set a major league record last year with 1,687 strikeouts in the season and their combined whip of 1.099 was the lowest of any team since the dead ball era of 1920
Before you start calling people ignorant and mouthing off about your PED and red flag nonsense, do us all and yourself a favor and read up
That’s my point. If you’re saying testing is so great, how come Cruz is still bombing away after being caught and also like 40 years old AND playing in Seattle? Also with those other players coming to Houston and becoming dominant all of a sudden, that adds to my point about Houston. You ARE ignorant if you think anything I said was nonsense. It was factual and clear. To say I need to read, makes no sense. What do I need to read? What can I read that will change anything that I said? I raised concerns and didnt claim anything to be fact, unless it was. I was clear about what was fact and what was opinion. What do I need to read? Hold this L.
You don’t think Cruz has been tested year after year since biogenesis? And it’s funny how he hit less home runs before he got caught, and more after he got caught. I chalk that up to becoming a little better at the plate. He’ll jack 40-45 home runs and strike out 150-160 times. Pretty common for power hitters actually
As for the reading, look up Brent Strom and the Houston analytics department along with interviews with Justin Verlander and Charlie Morton on how it made them better. Verlander by lowering his fastball and Morton throwing his curve ball (which while he had a cup of coffee in Philly, their analytics suggested he start throwing it more)
You’d be amazed what you’ll find
Also, you stated “testing is ALWAYS avoidable and the only ones who get caught are the ones who make stupid mistakes”
Testing in MLB has gone up every year since biogenesis
In 2015, there were 5,180 tests in-season. 2,450 tests during the spring and 528 during the offseason
Doesn’t sound very “avoidable” to me
Not avoidable in the sense of avoiding taking a test, but rather in the form of avoiding positive tests with manipulations, such as those that can cover up lab markers or taking short life drugs that are becoming increasingly harder to test for and more effective. If testing was so effective, why would players like ROBINSON CANO-who still have 5 years left on his contract- do PEDs if he is likely to be caught? As far as Cruz goes, so you’re telling me he stops roids and hits 40 hrs yearly without them… so if he was on them, were talking about Bonds level HRs? You can test a guy 50 days a year and it doesnt mean anything if they have means to avoid a positive result. Testing is ALWAYS lagging behind those who create means to avoid positive results. As far as Houstons coaching goes, that doesnt explain increased velocity, increased spin rates, and players dominating as they get older and older. If it’s all Mr. Strom and he can make these guys into the next Clemens, then he is a goddamn wizard and deserves to be paid more than trout because he builds more WAR than anyone in the game.
I gotta go….
Take this with you “L”
Don’t pat yourself on the back too hard pal
I know. I have to save some energy for my parade later
I credit Brent Strom
Aka Dr Erskine
So you’re not saying steroids, you’re just saying steroids? And your proof is they’re good?
Ooookay….
I’m not saying steroids, I’m saying there are clear signs of POTENTIAL Peds or some other form of cheating. How many times do I have to type that? I dont have a picture of Houston shooting up in the bathroom stall. All I said was the clear oddities that are going on in Houston. My money would be on cheating, but I’m not going to say I know for sure cause I dont. However, I can day with certainty that the MLB drug testing system is NOT some amazing system and that we should assume all these players are clean, just like we did in the past and just like we need to assume the baseball’s weren’t f’d with during the playoffs the last few years (yes they were. HRs bring rstings).
You are saying steroids. Anyone with a grade school education can read between the other gibberish and seemingly random capitalizations.
Where you see oddities, the rest of us just see talent and good coaching.
Nobody cares what your unfounded suspicions are. Either get evidence or remain silent. We have enough cranks masquerading as journalists spouting this garbage already.
“Nobody cares” yet you responded. Do you think people care what you say? It’s a comment section, idiot. I’m not claiming to be a journalist. Are you a sheriff of the comment section? Lmao. I’m so sorry for POSTING MY OPINIONS. Is that better? Do you need anything else to ease your fragile paper thin feelings? Go get pegged by your girlfriend and show her what a sensitive man is all about. You go boy!
Letting stupidity go unchallenged in how our country went down the sad little toilet it did.
Yes, it’s a comment section. that doesn’t mean you’re required to fill it with worthless drivel. Try thinking before posting if you want positive feedback
So you’re who determines what is worthless opinion? You’re delusional. I have a feeling that you’re a sad and lonely man who does nothing but complain about the country and how awful the world is. Btw…. the US is doing amazing and I work very hard, make money, have an amazing family, and I am VERY happy. I’m sorry you think our country is so awful. You should try moving lol. Or maybe work to improve your status and those around you. Get out of your sad little shell and stop telling people what they can and cant have opinions about. Maybe then you will be a little more happy with your life. Until then, I’m going to continue with my opinions, because that’s what I can do and a sad man like yourself has no power over that.
No, opinions with no value determine their own worthlessness.
Like stating you believe an entire team is cheating based on absolutely nothing and the instead of providing anything to back that claim up, you go on long rants filled with nothing but more unfounded conjecture, followed by attacking thr people who point out that you just did it.
Opinions that have value are those that have a basis in fact… Or even reality.
It’s okay to think before forming an opinion. I know large segments of the population think that’s a sign of weakness, but Darwinism will take care of them sooner or later.
Wow. Did you read my comments? You’re really lost man. Darwinism rewards people like myself who are hard workers and achievers. Sad little men like you, cant stand with people like myself, so you complain and try to shut us up. News flash: You’re losing in both the real world and in this comment section. You are a insane if you think you decide who can comment, who’s opinions hold value and who’s dont, and when you dont care about something- that means “nobody cares”. Look up the meaning of narcissism and do some soul searching. Something tells me that it’s not fun living in such a cynical and pessimistic state, like you do. That doesnt mean you can just tell others how they have to feel and what they can say. Im not some kid that you can boss around. You’re an entitled little man-child and the sooner you realize that, the sooner you can address it.
I did. Everything after you whining about me being the opinion police was utterly pointless.
Basically everything you’ve posted here is pointless, you’ve given up even trying to defend your opinion and trying to make it a personal, rather than intellectual dispute.
So I’m not gonna say you’re an idiot, but….
You’re embarrassing to even continue conversing with. I feel bad for you.
Taking your ball and going home, to prove what an adult you are?
Helpful parting advice : I your gonna post deliberately inflammatory nonsense on the internet, don’t read the follow up comments. You won’t like them.
Did you not see my reasoning for wanting to stop talking to you??? I SAID IT IS BECAUSE I FEEL BAD FOR YOUR CYNICAL, PESSIMISTIC, NARCISSISTIC, LONELY, SELF LOATHING, AND SAD STATE OF BEING! Idk if you’re always like this (hopefully not),but when someone’s arguement is based on “nobody cares and you better stop sharing your opinion because I said so” that SCREAMS the need for therapy and I cannot do that for you, buddy. I’m sorry.
So stop talking. I don’t need 8 extra sentences of you trying to pad a fragle ego just because you think long posts are the same as good ones.
And any time you want to try and defend you opinion rather than attack the person who shattered your delusions, feel free.
Until then you look like some 14 year old try hard who got caught posting something he didn’t actually think through…
Nothing you say makes sense lmao. Oh and btw, my ego is strong Haha. Hard and rewarding work, great life, great values, and never letting people like you tell me what opinions I am allowed to share… that’s pretty good! Enjoy your TV Dinner and SNL or whatever great plans you have lol
Another invitation to put some actual value to your opinion… And you go with another flailing ad hominem attack…
Leaving your opinion once more with no value at all, because even you can’t find any in it…
Welcome to the adults world, kiddo. It’s not a kind place.
Adult? Cmon man. You’re a 30+ year old man-child and we both know it. All of your arguments have been “Nobody cares” “your opinion isnt of value to me and so nobody else either” and “The country sucks because people dont think the same thing as me”. PATHETICCCC HAHAHAHA
So we can add literacy to the list of things you think you understand but don’t?
Your opinion has no value because you can’t back it up with any facts. We know this because you stopped trying 5 posts ago. Anybody an opinion based in fantasy has value to is objectively a moron because they don’t value factual proof.
And the country is spiraling the drain because so many people like you are proud to be morons…
I have a degree, I make very good money, I work in medicine, and I provided plenty of facts IF YOU GO BACK AND READ. Btw… did you really just bring literacy into this, when the actual post contains multiple grammatical errors???? This is exactly why I feel so bad conversing with you. You need help man. Stop with the “ThIs CoUnTrY SuCkZ!” Stuff and maybe you’ll be a little more happy, like the rest of us. This country is AMAZING if you work hard and dont blame others for your shortcomings. Something tells me, you havent learned that yet. Time to grow up, Peter Pan. One day you can grow up to be a man like me, if you take that first step in realizing that you arent in control of others. It’s been nice humbling you.
You provided no facts, you provided conjecture based on your personal opinion of a set of facts that do not support a conclusion you don’t even seem interested in defending.
This may shock you, but conjecture isn’t called fact because it’s a very different thing.
Another thing that may shock you I, and i suspect no one else, cares about the details of your personal life. We all know you have a high opinion of yourself… But that doesn’t really matter when your opinions are such utter garbage. People will judge you on the content of your opinions, and yours sorely lack any content at all.
Lol @ “spiraling down the drain”. Uhhhhh not for me, my family, or my friends. Maybe for people like you, who think they deserve more than they actually do and therefore are never happy with what they have. For me and my circle, we work hard and enjoy the rewards. We help others who we feel deserve it and we enjoy the freedoms of this country. I feel bad for those, like yourself, who are so upset… but NOBODY is gonna whipe your butt for you. If you’re so upset, go out and change it. But to assume that the answer to your problems, is stopping other people from sharing opinions that differ from yours, then you’re never going to be happy man. Again, I’m sorry.
Again with the “nobody cares about the details of your life”, but then you go on about your opinion that the country sucks hahaha. Hypocritical and narsisistic. Youre a funny man.
Feel free to share any opinion you like, but just remember the 1st amendment doesn’t gaurantee the right to be taken seriously if those opinion are moronic.
If you don’t like your opinions being scrutinized, don’t make them public. Especially if you can’t defend them.
Only Petrie can make MKinsella sympathetic. Wow you spew a ton of hypocrisy. You ask for facts and you gave nothing in-return. You question “stupidity” and forgot to take a good look in the mirror. You are the last person to challenge anyone. You took what Kinsella said seriously yet you could not help retorting to his scrutiny. Thin-skinned much? Congratulations on giving him too much credit. You somehow allowed him to take you to the woodshed.
Don’t get him started haha
BAHahahaha… it’s probably cool now. Would think he’s already at his parade for 1. You know, sitting in a homemade float made of cardboard boxes and toilet paper while throwing candy at passing traffic. Yelling “I won, I won and without PEDs! Down with the Astros, those pumpkin eaters!”. Though, everyone in CT knows it for a lie.
Good one. You do standup?
LOLOL
I mean really. Just LOLOL
33 per year to verlander and yet keuchel remains unsigned. Hmmm
Verlander is a bonafide Hall of Famer who is still at the top of his game. Keuchel is a mid-rotation starter with a fastball that sits in the 80’s that sought ace-level money. No surprise to me–or anyone else–that Keuchel is still playing golf.
What’s with all these comments about great players going to the Yankees? Don’t you guys watch the game. Sure, they’ll go to the Yankees, but after they peaked. Verlander will sign a contract with the Yankees when hes 43 years old. Arena do will be a yankee when hes 40. Sale when hes 40. They don’t sign these guys when they are in their prime.
What a shock !!!! The Mets could have locked DeGrom down for less a year than Verlander.is getting now. They want to keep on pushing the extension down the road and it just keeps on getting more and more expensive for them. The Mets have no excuse in what they are doing !!
Only reason that makes sense is if the Mets stumble in April and May, DeGrom is traded.
I agree with your assessment, but I don’t think BVW would trade DeGrom. It’s easier to tell the fans he walked away than to sell him.
I think Noah would go first due to his higher trade value with age and service time.
I’m sure Noah is a trade candidate also. Looking at the Mets from afar they’d seemingly set themselves up for 2021-22 by trading Noah, DeGrom and Wheeler. By then, Cano will be near the end of his contract and they buy some time to decide what to do with their double duo first basemen.
I dunno. They seem to be in a decent position to win yet a great position to reload thanks to their starting pitching.
At this rate, next winter’s Free Agent frenzy will be known as the “Bartollo Colon/Rob Refsnyder” market….
Nick Castellanos
White Sox are primed and ready to pounce.
If any team might “pounce” it would be the “crying poor” Cubbies. The White Sox already pounced on a better bet in Ervin Santana this past offseason and should have both Michael Kopech and former top Cub pitching prospect Dylan Cease in their 2020 rotation. Eat your heart out when Cease joins Eloy Jimenez as another top White Sox talent to ink a long term team-friendly extension. The Cubs aren’t nearly as good in that department preferring to shell out big bucks to FA starting pitchers like Edwin Jackson, Brett Anderson, Tyler Chatwood and Yu Darvish, not to mention OF Jason Heyward. Darvish might still work out, perhaps as well as Jon Lester but those others were poor investments.
Hopefully the Cubs can tie up Javier Baez to a long term extension but I fear that they burned one bridge too many with Kris Bryant and his service time manipulation. Scott Boras as his agent won’t help matters either.
Good for jv
Extensionmania!
Good for Verlander and for Houston. Miss him in Detroit, but it was for the best. He got his ring. He had a great career in Detroit, but did have some injuries that sapped some of his strength. He was finally healthy in 2017 and was really starting to put together a nice second half of the season when he was traded. Then the Astros, who were (and probably still are) miles ahead of the league in their use of data and video, helped him take it to another level. And Verlander is a fitness freak and very obsessive about his mechanics. So if anyone can continue pitching well as he ages it is Verlander.
And “he got his ring” is kind of an oxymoron. He got kate Upton. Locked her down got her preggo. That man has had a great life.
Does this mean the Astros are passing on extending Gerrit Cole? If they are, the Braves need to find out how much. No Folty. Folty stays.
Verlander is who theo should have traded for. Schawaber eloy and Dylan cease for Verlander. I love Quintana but Verlander is still a solid ace.
Take this with you “L”
What does this even mean?
Good move
Yes he’s a good player and his age isnt too much of a factor for me as he’s proven to be consistent, but I still think they overpaid him. You can still get some top starters from 20-25 mil and still have at least 8 to 13 million left, not to mention sleepers. At the very least, if they can have 3 top starters with Cole and Verlander, then mabye just mabye I’d see it fit. Otherwise, I rather have an everday player or players like Altuve for 33 mil whereas just soley Verlander is pitching every 5th day and probably through 6-7 innings with some of the burden upon the RP’s to close games. Non-pitchers on the other hand can get hits, HR’s steal bases, make defensive plays etc “everyday.” It’s only if the majority of your starting rotation is solid then this signing wouldn’t be as costly cuz then you;d have a bettter chance to win most games than not. I’d would have offered him at most 25 mil, but if I’m a small market team I would not even go there., I’d rather just trade or let him off to free agency and try to sign at least 2 decent SP for that price.
Why tie up TWO roster spots instead of ONE?
Not for 33 million lol. Astros got a great hitter who is an everyday player for half that price by the name of Brantley. Cole is still an excellent pitcher and he’s not an even close to the 30 mil price range. He’s a good pitcher but that doesn’t mean you should overspend. Unless you have 3 or more top starters instead of 2. 3 would mean that the majority of your starting rotation could bring a strong start to most ball games. And even then me personally I’m still hesitant for that much.
Hard to argue against this valuation.
Big V is locked down. Now let’s go extend Cole.
You’re embarrassing to even continue conversing with. I feel bad for you.
Do the internet a favor and start with that next time. There’s enough bad trolling here as it is.
Verlander deserves every penny. Funny how my joke of a franchise still dragging their feet wirh Degrom and won’t offer the guy 5-150 smh
espn buried this story with < 5 seconds of air time
Did the Astros make the tigers pay any of new contract?