The Indians didn’t leave themselves much margin for error heading into the 2019 campaign. Ownership mandated payroll cuts in the offseason while delivering a candid and ominous “enjoy him” message to fans in reference to franchise shortstop Francisco Lindor. Cleveland’s Opening Day lineup looked more like the type you’d expect to see in early Spring Training than that of a division favorite earnestly putting forth its best options. An injury to Lindor weakened the product, but the holes throughout an order that featured Tyler Naquin hitting third were glaring.
A questionable offense was a known trade-off, though, as the Indians were built on the foundation of perhaps the game’s best collection of starting pitchers. Two-time Cy Young winner Corey Kluber was again joined by co-aces Carlos Carrasco and Trevor Bauer, while younger righties Mike Clevinger and Shane Bieber rounded out a rotation that would make nearly any team envious.
Fast forward a bit more than 10 weeks, and only Bauer and Bieber are healthy — neither with the results one might’ve expected of them. Clevinger made two starts before going down to a teres major strain that still has him on the injured list (though he’s nearing a return). Kluber suffered a fractured arm when he was struck by a comebacker. Most concerning of all, Carrasco is on the injured list due to a blood condition that has rendered him lethargic and likely contributed to some disappointing on-field results of his own. Even the Indians’ top depth option, Jefry Rodriguez, landed on the IL last week.
The result is an Indians club that trails the surprising Twins by 10.5 games in the AL Central. At 33-32, the Indians are still within 1.5 games of the second AL Wild Card spot, but it’s a tight race. Both the Yankees and the Rays are at 40-24, jostling for the AL East division lead. They’re six games up on another surprising club, the Rangers, and one of New York or Tampa Bay appears quite likely to claim that top Wild Card position. The Red Sox, Indians, Athletics, White Sox and Angels are all within four games of Texas for that second spot. Each of the Rangers, Red Sox and Athletics rather handily tops Cleveland’s -6 run differential.
The Indians are clear Wild Card contenders with a (much) longer shot to fight back into the division race, but for a club that entered the year as a strong favorite in the AL Central, their outlook is unexpectedly bleak. And given the obvious payroll constraints they faced in the offseason, it’s worth questioning whether ownership will dub the 2019 campaign somewhat of a transitional year and look to further cut some costs.
The Indians have just $48.4MM committed to next year’s payroll (via Jason Martinez of Roster Resource). That seems plenty manageable, but the number won’t stay at that level. Kluber’s $17.5MM option seems likely to be exercised even with his injury and some unexpected struggles (5.80 ERA in 35 2/3 innings). Lindor and Bauer headline an expensive arbitration class. Lindor already received a $10.55MM salary in his first trip through the process, and while we can’t know precisely what he’ll earn, last year’s Kris Bryant and Mookie Betts cases provide somewhat of a range. Both players earned similar numbers to Lindor in their first arbitration campaigns; Bryant had an injury-hindered year in 2018 and was bumped up to $12.9MM while Betts won the AL MVP and vaulted to $20MM. Lindor will probably check in somewhere near the midpoint — perhaps closer to Betts given that he’s been quite productive since returning from the IL. Bauer, meanwhile, will get a raise on a $13MM salary and could approach the $20MM mark.
The aforementioned $48.4MM figure could balloon to the $100MM vicinity when accounting for the salaries of Lindor, Kluber and Bauer alone. Add Clevinger’s first arbitration salary, the need to supplement the roster in other areas (one of second/third base, the bullpen, the outfield) and several league-minimum players, and it’s easy to see the payroll approaching or even exceeding the current $124MM mark despite a drop in attendance from 2018. All of this is to say that the Indians enter the summer not as the clear-cut buyers that many anticipated but as a team that could plausibly walk the line between a sell-off and some measured upgrades to the roster.
Players like Bauer and Brad Hand will be highly attractive assets who could command sizable returns. Cleveland knows it won’t sign Bauer long-term. The right-hander has been open on multiple occasions about his plans to play out his career on a series of one-year contracts (thus maximizing his salary on a year-over-year basis while also incurring a good bit of risk).
Hand is controlled through 2021 ($7.6MM in 2020, $10MM club option in 2021), and every contender in the game would love the opportunity to add him to its bullpen. His value right now is arguably as high as it was when the Indians acquired him a year ago; Hand has career-bests in ERA (0.98), FIP (1.70), xFIP (2.82) and HR/9 (0.33) at the moment and is eminently affordable. ESPN’s Buster Olney wrote yesterday (subscription required) after chatting with executives around the league that other teams expect Cleveland to trade Hand with his value nearing its apex.
Moving Hand or Bauer wouldn’t do the Indians’ playoff chances any favors, but doing so could yield controllable, near-MLB-ready talent while simultaneously providing the front office with a substantial increase in payroll flexibility this winter — dollars that could be reallocated to putting forth a more complete roster. And selling either or both players wouldn’t totally eliminate the team from contention, given the rather mediocre nature of the AL Wild Card race at the moment and the rebuilding nature of the bottom of the AL Central. It’s even plausible that the Indians could trade one of those players and acquire a more affordable replacement.
For now, the focus will surely remain on narrowing the gap between them and the Twins, and it’s certainly worth highlighting that their upcoming schedule is weak. They’ll play a combined 12 games against the Royals, Tigers and Orioles between now and the All-Star break. That presents a nice opportunity to make up some ground, although the Twins also have seven games against the Royals, three against the Mariners and three against the White Sox in that same span. The Indians and Twins will meet for a three-game set in Cleveland to open the second half.
The Indians needn’t embark on a full-scale rebuild like the ones that are taking place in Kansas City and Detroit — though if they ever did go that route, the price on a player of Lindor’s caliber would be staggering — nor do they even need to throw in the towel for the 2019. But the way the season has played out thus far makes it increasingly plausible that they’ll listen to offers for Bauer or Hand — a scenario few expected back in March.
Floopjack
I think there’s no answers until the All Star Break. Right now, the team has won tough series against top tier teams recently and is about to go into a super easy schedule starting with two against the Reds tomorrow. Minnesota has been exposed for having a shaky bullpen and so-so in game manager. Let’s see how that plays out this month.
CrewBrew
Division is not over. The Twins are ridiculously hot right now. They will cool off eventually. The Indians get healthy and maybe add before the deadline. they could cut into that lead easily. People acting like the Twins are on the Dodgers level. Now THAT division is over lol.
jessecc08
you’re right, I think I read the Indians have about a 10% chance of winning the division at this point.
CrewBrew
Yeah because the Twins have a track record of dominating the central for a FULL season. All it takes is a 5-7 game losing streak by the Twins and the Indians getting hot. Plus they have a ton of games left against their own division which is the worst in baseball. Royals and Tigers are easy sweeps
jessecc08
what does track record have to do with anything? you understand each year teams are different and especially this year for the Twins. Also the Twins have those same games to play against the worst division in baseball.
CrewBrew
All im saying is that everyone is counting out the Indians when we have a lot of baseball left to play. Not an Indians fan but theres 4 months left lets hold off the champagne shower till at least the end of July. Im hoping the Twins do win the division though they are fun to watch. Dont want to peak too early though.
sufferforsnakes
Actually, the Tribe always seems to play down to the level of their competition. Royals play them tough, winning often, while the Tigers….uh, never mind. The White Sox just plain kill us.
Floopjack
39% to make the playoffs as of today, so that will climb significantly.
kleppy12
Statistics are counting the Idians out, Twins have a 94% chance of winning the division. also, a 5-7 losing streak? The twins haven’t lost 3 games in a row all season. lastly, almost halfway through the season the twins aren’t “ridiculously hot” its almost halfway through the season, the Twins are better than the Idians, period. The Idians have one of the worst offenses in baseball, they aren’t winning the division, especially since I believe the Twins have the easiest remaining schedule in baseball.
kleppy12
I mean if Twins go .500 the rest of the way (49-49) the Idians would have to go 60-37 to win the division that’s a .619 winning percentage. Yes, it is “possible” the Idians can make a come back but it in incredibly unlikely, 6% to be exact.
walls17
yeah, everyone said the red sox would cool down last year too. everything is just working for them this season, even if they do cool down a little they’ll still have a big lead, trade deadline ammo and still a better team
petrie000
The Twins will cool off when the clinch the division in July at the rate this is going…
clepto
Will be swept by Reds
Floopjack
No no. They’re playing the CINCINNATI Reds :-p
Ted
I don’t have a clue what Bauer is worth, or what others would give up for him. He basically has one Cy Young-caliber season of 27 starts when he led the league in lowest HR/9, and then 137 other career starts that add up to “meh.” I have a hard time agreeing that he’s Cleveland’s “co-ace” as this summary states……….
Ejemp2006
Indians have awesome system for develop. Trade Bauer and I trust they will turn prospect into MLB contributions.
Franchise next requires a look at strategy for unload veteran pitcher about one year before big steep decline. Learn from Tampa Bay.
Kluber bye bye two years ago? and we’d still have competitive team.
CrewBrew
I would love to get Brad Hand in our bullpen. Or trade for Bauer but hes going to cost alot
mattynokes
They just took 4 of 6 from a pair of playoff contenders and have 15 of the next 21 games against some of the worst teams in baseball (Tigers, Royals, and Orioles). There’s certainly reason to see how things shake out until the All-Star break. They could be in a nice position come July 7.
Yankeepatriot
They would need the twins to tank by then which I don’t see happening
kleppy12
They wont catch the Twins but they could still make the Wildcard.
Senioreditor
Is the intent to win a division or a title? I always figure it is to win a title and the Indians have no chance to defeat any of the best in the AL. Why not sell and regroup with younger affordable assets in a few years?
stymeedone
solid pitching and one or two hot bats can carry a team in a series. Get in and who knows what will happen.
Senioreditor
I’m pretty sure they’re not defeating the Astros or Yankees even with a few hot hitters.
Floopjack
They defeated the yankees this weekend. HANDILY.
Michael Chaney
I was mad at ownership during the offseason, and I’m still mad at ownership now. They basically came right out and said that they were going to coast to another division title, so they felt less of a need to supplement the roster. Clearly, they were wrong.
All things considered, this just doesn’t seem like their year. I love Bauer, but he needs to be traded. He could get a solid return for the next year and a half of his service, and a Clevinger-Bieber-Carrasco-Kluber-Plesac rotation for next year is still really good if everyone is healthy. I’d also consider selling off the rental pieces they have (they could possibly get a lottery ticket for Martin or Oliver Perez, but they’re not helping themselves).
After that, I’d be hesitant to sell any further. They could definitely get a lot for Hand, but as long as they don’t plan on tearing it down, they’ll need him to contend for the other two years they’d have him. They have some good relief arms in the minors, but Hand has been dominant all year. I’d have to be overwhelmed with an offer to move him. I think the best course of action is to move Bauer and any of the rentals, hopefully get a little prospect depth out of it, and reload for next year.
sufferforsnakes
Near future starter possibilities — Civale. Morgan.
Near future pen — Sandlin. Karinchak
Near future infielders — Jones 3B. Bradley 1B.
Michael Chaney
I’m a huge fan of Morgan, but I didn’t want to project him into the rotation right away. I think he could be last year’s Bieber or this year’s Plesac, in which he’ll start the year in the minors but could have a prominent role later in the year. I’m also not quite convinced Civale is a starter long term (he looked great in Columbus the other night though), but I think he can be a good reliever at worst.
Sandlin and Karinchak are exciting pen pieces, and I’d add Kyle Nelson and Robert Broom to that list as well.
Bradley strikes out way too much for my liking, but his power is legit and they might as well at least give him a chance before they lose him for peanuts like Aguilar and Yandy. I also love Nolan Jones (now that his power is coming back, he has nothing to prove at Lynchburg), but since they haven’t even brought him up to Akron yet I’d imagine it’ll be next summer at the earliest before we see him.
indiansfan44
Agree with pretty much everything here. Only thing I would possibly change is Kluber. If he bounces back and has a good final 2 months of the season I would shop him again and take a reasonable offer rather than possibly have him back and decline.
Burgeezy
Don’t forget Jefry. He figures to slot into the rotation somewhere and if not then definitely the pen. Plus Chang could be considered for the infield (even though he is having an awful season) and johnson for the OF.
I’m wondering when we will see Bradley. Lots of Ks but lots of power as previously mentioned.
I wonder if we could ship Kip off for a lottery ticket? He hasn’t done much but could be a bench piece.
Michael Chaney
I think Jefry is probably a reliever long term. I like the talent, but I think that’s the best fit for him in an ideal situation. Chang needs to get healthy and get some at bats before he’ll be up, but I agree on him. I think Johnson can end up being a pretty solid everyday player.
I agree that Bradley needs a chance and while he may just end up being another AAAA player, they need to find out for themselves. They pretty much ignored Aguilar and Yandy, and that didn’t work out well. I think replacing Bauers with Bradley is something they should strongly consider.
I’d doubt they could even get a lottery ticket for Kip, honestly. There’s still a few million left to pay this year, and even if the Indians paid most or all of it, he’s still been pretty bad this year and hasn’t really been himself for a full season in 2-3 years. They might as well hold on to him.
Yankeepatriot
There was a high chance of decline from kluber who is aging and has a lot of mileage on his arm and not only did he get off to a horrible start this year he is hurt too. The Indians messed up and kluber’s trade value could potentially be in the toilet. They won’t trade Ramirez (what happened to this guy ? Can’t hit breaking balls ?) as that would be selling low. Trading hand, lindor and Bauer is a must (although Bauer has been mediocre this season after a hit start)
Michael Chaney
I don’t see one good reason why they should trade Lindor unless they’re planning on tearing it down. They have a few solid middle infield prospects, but they’re all years away. I doubt they’ll sign him long term, but it’s still too early to trade him either.
Floopjack
They’re not trading Lindor or Hand. Both will increase in value over the next 2 years and there’s no rebuild necessary. Trading Bauer might actually be the best thing for Bauer – He needs a better pitching coach and a more analytics driven team to really succeed. In return, the Tribe could get MLB ready infield where they need it and possibly an outfielder, though the need there won’t be as great soon enough.
kleppy12
Sorry but this is just 100% wrong. Lindor is as valuable as a player can get because they any team would trade just about any prospects they have if the Idians wanted them for Lindor. Hand is signed for two more years at a reasonable price, every day he gets closer to the end of that contract his value goes down because even if a team thinks they can resign him its going to cost them a lot more than he is making now. I’m not saying the Idians need to trade either of them but they both lose trade value every day.
jbigz12
Yeah, Hand or Lindor’s trade value will never be higher but if the Indians want to go back to the playoffs in 2020 they better have both of them on the roster. I’d deal Bauer and Any other rental they could for salary relief. With the way they pinched pennies this offseason I’d hope any dollar they saved in salaries would be reinvested into that god awful outfield and to find another infielder. Whether that be a 3B or a 2B depending on where you want to stick Jose. The injuries to starters have hurt Cleveland but the writing was all over the wall this offseason when they failed to upgrade the clear offensive holes.
The twins are again vulnerable in 2020 as 3/5 of their starting rotation will be free agents. As will Schoop. The Indians could certainly overtake them next season if they play their cards right now and spend a little bit of money upgrading the team this offseason.
hockeyjohn
Sorry, Kleppy, but you are 100% wrong. There will be more people shopping in the off season. More people shopping equals a higher price. #2 – the correct spelling is Indians.
kleppy12
#1 you dont know what you’re talking about since you know even the article says that but it’s ok to ignore common sense a d logic if you wish. #2 I dont really care about a typo. #3 you’re still wrong. I mean how do you people even come up with this. This is about control ability the less control you have the less you get for each player, that’s common sense. You may have more people bidding but their bids will be lower because the return is less than it is now. Again, that’s common sense. What would possibly make them more valuable? There might be one or two more teams in the offseason but that’s not likely because anyone who wants them for 2020 or 2021 would take them now, they dont need to wait.
hockeyjohn
#1 – More people bidding raises the price to make sure their bid is the one accepted. If their bid is lower than that of other teams, they will not get the player so bids can increase. I agree with you that more control raises the price, but also multiple bidders will also raise the price. I don’t know how you don’t understand how business works. It is common sense.
#2 a typo one time I would not have commented. To do it over and over again is another thing.
#3 – Be more polite when you post. You have valid points, but so did the other commenters. Putting them down doesn’t make your point better. Grow up!
kleppy12
Ok so you’re saying someone would pay more for a $10 item than they will for a $20? Because that’s what you’re saying. Again, the writer of this article (who almost certainly know more than you or I) said exactly what I’m saying. Again, controlling a player is probably the most important things so having less control of a player makes them less valuable.
hockeyjohn
You are not wrong. The more player control raises the price. I am not wrong. More people bidding for a player will also raise the price. What I am saying is that in the off season, more people are likely bidding which could raise the price to more than the few teams bidding now. It is really simple.
jakec77
As stated above, they won’t be making any decisions until the All Star break. At the earliest, I could see them as a team waiting until right around July 31 before finally throwing in the towel. Bauer and Hand by themselves should yield some interesting talent.
It would be fascinating to think about what a Lindor would be worth. But it’s probably an academic question- nobody would offer them what they would have to get to move him. (Also, as I think of the teams that would have the pieces to make the trade e.g. SD, they all generally are pretty set at SS).
ntorsky
Bauer and a low level prospect for one or two of Renfroe/Myers/Cordero/Naylor/Reyes and one or two of Weathers/Quantrill/Nix/Baez. Padres will likely have to eat a portion of Myers’s contract if they go that route, but their obligations to Gyorko, Hughes, Shields, and Richard come off the books so they have a bit of cash to play with.
sufferforsnakes
SMH…..
hockeyjohn
I knew that it would not take long before we saw a weak trade proposal from a Padre fan. Cleveland WILL NOT take Myers in any form or way. His contract, even with help, is too much for the Tribe, a small market team. Please give up with Myers. Second, it will take a better pitching prospect than those listed above. If the Indians make Bauer available, there will be several teams interested and bidding. It will take a good package.
petcopadre
Why would the Padres trade Renfroe, Cordero, Naylor or Reyes? The Indians can have Myers, Weathers, Quantrill, or Nix but why trade Baez? You can add Jankowski and France to the possible trade candidates included in any trade offer for Bauer but that’s it.
hockeyjohn
Petco, You have to trade something of value to get something of value. As I have stated many times, Cleveland will have NO INTEREST in Wil Myers and his outrageous contract. Quantrill, Nix, and others on your list do not move the needle for the Indians. Why would Cleveland take your spare parts? If that is your offer, plan on not getting Bauer.
petcopadre
I agree but Bauer is not worth the value that has been proposed in the trade package on this site. I could see including Naylor for Stroman since he is Canadian but none of the others. Renfroe and Reyes will make up the heart of the right handed hitters in our outfield. Cordero and Naylor will make up the future of the left handed outfielders. All 4 have power but will need to improve on base hitting consistency. Margot, Myers, and Jankowski are our odd men out. Not good enough? oh well.
hockeyjohn
Then you are not getting Bauer. Oh well. You can keep your pitching staff that will quickly run out of innings. Good luck.
TheRoadDogg
You can always count on extreme homers and nonsensical trade proposals here @hockeyjohn
hockeyjohn
I agree RoadDogg. His offer and tone was so bad that I had to respond.
kleppy12
Yeah I’m a Twins fan and there is less than a zero percent chance the Idians would take that deal. Honestly if you offered all of those players the Idians probably wouldn’t make the trade.
hoosierhysteria
Indians cutting payroll not likely to take Myers unless pads pay it all. Hope they do. Ship Myers out. Enough.
Indiansjoe
Bauer to Yankees for Floria, Garcia, Frazier, Gio and lousangia…..hand to who ever offers a Chapman/Miller deal between dodgers, braves, Padres and brewers
kleppy12
The Twins would actually be a great trade partner if they were willing to trade within the division. The Twins have the need a d the farm system. honestly I would be willing to give up Royce Lewis for Hand if I were the Twins.
Michael Chaney
I’m very reluctant to trade Hand, but for Lewis I’d suddenly be intrigued. I definitely think they can get as much or more than what they paid for him last year, and that’s without factoring in that they got Cimber too.
heater
Not a chance twins trade Lewis for Hand.
kleppy12
Why? I’m not saying they will but if you think they wont trade Lewis than you dont know how this front office works.
heater
I do know how their front office works. No chance they make that trade!
kleppy12
That’s why they are in charge. Almost every GM in baseball would trade a prospects for 2.5 years of one of the best relievers in baseball when it would greatly improve your chances of immediately winning a WS.
chicagofan1978
Maybe add the Rays to that list
tigerdoc616
If the Indians cannot afford a payroll of $124M when they have some good exciting pieces, then their fans have no hope of ever winning a WS. Yea, they have had a pile up of injuries, it happens. But they still have a competitive core that should be kept intact for another season or two, not dismantled.
stymeedone
Fans dont win WS, but if they buy tickets, it does help with payroll. Cleveland “fans” dont buy tickets, unfortunately, even when they are winning.
Indiansjoe
I traveled to Jacobs field twice a year fro Maryland for weekend series, plus watch them when they visit Camden yards. But after this offseason and listen to that cheap skate billionaire owner basically say he is going to nickel and dime til the talent is gone I won’t put another penny in his pocket. My money isn’t much to him, but it is a lot to me. DOLAN NEEDS TO SELL THE TRIBE!!!!!!!!!!!
Wahoo What a Finish!
The first sentence of the article hit the nail on the head. You can’t “kind of compete” like the Indians tried to do this year. You’re either competing for a championship or you are not. And in the Indians case with the abysmal offseason they had they are not competing for a championship. But hey at least the Dolans won’t “lose money” this year. I’ll sleep easier at night knowing that.
Mendoza Line 215
I disagree.You can “kind of compete” and be a .500 team.
The Pirates are experts at it,and have been for four years.
The Ghost of Bobby Bonilla
Cleveland’s ownership group is the most embarrassing in baseball outside of Miami. The owner tells fans to “enjoy their best player while he’s here” and then complains when fans respond by not buying tickets and further lining his pockets.
They do have some tough decisions though and all of this seems to point at a full-scale rebuild, which I’m sure the Indians will try to sell as “reloading, not rebuilding”.
Bauer is a complete mystery. He either looks like a Cy Young winner, or a #4/#5 starter, depending on what his mood is on any given day. There’s no way Cleveland can afford to give him $20M in arbitration next year. He’s gone.
Lindor has already been tagged for trade at some point prior to the Trade Deadline 2021 with the owner’s comments about him. It would be interesting to see how bad Cleveland could raid somebody’s farm system if they dealt him this year or in the offseason.
Kluber’s trade value is approaching zero, because his contract is structured where if he gets traded, all of his team options vest. The Indians are actually going to have a tough call on whether to pick up his 2020 option this offseason, again, due to money.
Bottom line is that the Ownership/Front Office botched this year about as bad as any team in recent memory. This was a club that was maybe one RH outfielder away from being a legit WS contender, but instead, the ownership gutted the team.
One good thing is that Cleveland has an unending supply of great starting pitching. Kluber, Bauer, Carrasco, Clevenger, and Bieber. Then you have Plesac and McKenzie right behind them. And their low A/AA system is completely loaded with arms that are probably 3 years or so away from making the Bigs. I’ve never seen a team with such starting pitching, outside of the 1990’s Braves teams.
Michael Chaney
Honestly I’m having a hard time disagreeing with any of what you said. I still have hopes that Kluber can bounce back at least a little bit (in hindsight they definitely should have traded him though), but otherwise I think you hit the nail right on the head.
Avory
Let me get this straight: the Tribe ownership is second only to the Marlins in ineptitude, yet has assembled the finest collection of young starting pitching talent in the game AND is loaded at the lower minor league level in high upside positional talent. The team is so incompetent that it off-loaded one year of Edwin Encarnacion in favor of two years of Carlos Santana. They were blithering idiots because they traded Gomes to free up Roberto Perez for every day play AND got Jefrey Rodriguez, Daniel Johnson, and Monasterio in return. They were dopey enough to actually believe Nick Wittgren could be a masterful 8th inning set-up guy. They were foolhardy enough to believe they could let Cody Allen and Andrew Miller go and still have one of the game’s best bullpens.
The Tribe’s ownership puts every available revenue dollar (meager though it may be due to whack Tribe fan attitudes like this one) right back into the organization and payroll, and the results are astounding to other major league clubs with two or three times the Tribe’s resources.
I’m sick and tired of the complaining of entitled Tribe fans. We have many very good fans, but a higher percentage of self-entitled ones than probably any other team outside of Boston and New York. It’s ridiculous. Cleveland has better ownership than the city or its fanbase deserves. Wake up: if we had truly lousy ownership, the team would be in Vancouver or Charlotte or San Antonio by now.
The Ghost of Bobby Bonilla
You do know that their lineup is the most imbalanced in all of baseball, with only one right-handed hitter, correct? That has been a multi-year issue now. They’ve also trotted out the worst Outfield in terms of WAR, in the HISTORY OF BASEBALL, year-to-date. Jake Bauers batting clean-up and frequently bunting from the #4 hole? Oh my.
They also refused to even put a QO on Michael Brantley (who might possibly win MVP), due to “cheapness”.
I’m not saying that every move they’ve made has been bad, they’ve actually made some very good trades between 4 and 7 years ago that have brought them Kluber, Carrasco, Bauer, and Clevinger, but all of baseball knows that Cleveland’s ownership totally cut that team off at the knees this offseason.
Only a true homer would look at what they’ve done and think it was somehow good for the fans.
Avory
Only a true front-running, second-guessing, bitter and cynical fan would look at what the ownership has done for baseball in Cleveland and think it is second only to the Marlins in “embarrassment.” The only thing embarrassing Cleveland is the attendance figures for good teams. THAT’S what the rest of the industry notices, not the fact that ownership judiciously cuts the franchise’s record-setting payroll so it will be able to pay for more productive aspects of the team.
You think it’s easy fielding “balanced” perfect teams in this market? You think it’s easy satisfying a second-guessing, front-running fanbase like you represent? ‘
I guess it’s easy (afterwards) saying Brantley should have been offered this or that AFTER he didn’t play for two years…you think this ownership should take this risk? After all, YOU don’t have to live with the consequences of a bad Hafner deal or a idiotic Kerry Wood deal or a dumb Swisher/Bourn deals made because fans like you keep screeching about “cheap” ownership. You want to complain? How about complaining when they’re NOT cheap, but stupidly spend? I’ll listen to that argument.
Go away. Self-entitled fans like you do nothing to further a balanced discussion about the team, front office, or its ownership. You lead by condemning ownership, fold your arms, and expect everyone to agree because it’s the simplest thing all fans say when they don’t get what they want. It’s childish and unhelpful, as all parents on a budget in the real world will tell you.
The Ghost of Bobby Bonilla
ok Paul Dolan. But as a “bitter” fan, I do have a vote. I vote (along with about 3 million other fans who had no problem paying top dollar when Jacobs owned the team) to not put a dime in Dolan’s pockets. This team did not exceed its 2001 payroll until 2016. Comical ownership.
Avory
Riiiiiight. Exactly my point, and drew you out as the resentful fan that you are. Only the least insightful fans put Dick Jacobs on a pedestal and assign the Dolans to the gutter. Were you screaming, “Cheap!” when Dick Jacobs shopped at the dimestore window for starters during those pitching-starved years? You want balance? Where was Dick Jacobs when we had the best everyday lineup in baseball but did nothing to address the rotation?
You see, you can be ridiculous in any era of Cleveland baseball you choose, but for whatever irrational reason you sneer at the Dolans and exalt Dick Jacobs, which is pure foolishness. Dick Jacobs had it made; it was easy money during the time he owned the team, a team, by the way, he never really cared about. He would have sold us down the river if it put another buck in his pocket. But I appreciate Mr. Jacobs; without him, we’d never have had the Gateway Project and I don’t blame him for all the money he made on the Tribe because he helped keep baseball in Cleveland.
But so have the Dolans. Without local, stable ownership by people who truly love the Indians and the city, we would hardly be where we are today. It’s not their fault Cleveland has short-sighted fans, but it is their fault whenever they listen to those dumb fans’ ideas of how best to run a team in this market. I’m hopeful the Dolans continue their commitment to northeast Ohio and that sufficient revenue is generated to operate one of the best organizations in all of baseball, with or without unappreciative and ungrateful fans like you.
Michael Chaney
All those moves are definitely great, but that’s on the front office. I’ve always had confidence in their front office; they’ve never been the issue.
The problem is with ownership. Ownership mandated a payroll slash, and that tied the hands of their front office. They *did* take on a slightly larger amount of money on Santana’s deal when they swapped it for EE, but it was over two years instead of the one year EE had left, and it still lowered this year’s payroll. Gomes was traded because ownership wanted his salary gone; the front office just so happened to get a return that now looks really good.
Ownership had a team that was a tweak or two away from being a legitimate title contender, but because they favored profits over the on-field product, they’re currently a fringe Wild Card contender. The front office built the roster, but ownership wouldn’t support it long-term. *That* is where the problem is.
Burgeezy
I don’t think they just happened to get quality players for Gomes. That idea is naive. They had a surplus of catchers and traded Gomes at peak value. Last I checked Robo has outperformed Gomes this year, not to mention the contributions from Jefry.
This type of trade is the bread and butter of the Cleveland front office.
Avory
Bingo.
Michael Chaney
Maybe my wording wasn’t good; I agree that those kinds of trades are what that front office has succeeded with. What I meant is that their main goal from ownership was to just shed Gomes and his salary; they also happened to knock the return out of the park.
I doubt ownership expected them to nail the trade, and I think he was almost as much of a salary dump as Yonder Alonso was supposed to be.
hockeyjohn
Expecting the Indians to spend like the Yankees and Red Sox is silly. Baseball is unbalanced in favor of the big market teams. It has been and likely will always be. Teams like Cleveland, Tampa Bay, and others have to be smarter in order to compete. I have learned to be realistic in my expectations. I hope the Indians get healthy and tweek the roster and plan to contend for 2020.
Avory
Excellent, mature approach to rooting for a small market team. Besides, isn’t it as fun as it gets taking down the Yankees and Red Sox in the playoffs when we get the chance? I’d rather be on that side of the equation than watch my big market team get knocked off by the smarter upstarts from Cleveland. How dumb do you have to be to be a failure in big market baseball? And yet they do…and that’s part of my joy in watching the game.
Burgeezy
Kluber’s options remain options regardless of a trade
The Ghost of Bobby Bonilla
That isn’t true. There is a vesting provision that kicks in if he is traded. The club options become player options if he gets dealt.
Burgeezy
Per baseballprospectus.com
“20:$13.5M club option ($1M buyout), 21:$14M club option ($1M buyout). Salaries, options may increase up to $4M each based on finish in 2015-19 Cy Young votes. (Top 5 finish in 2018 Cy Young vote increased 2019 salary to $17M, 2020 option to $17.5M, 2021 option to $18M.)
Assignment bonus: $1M if traded.
If traded in 2015-19, new club must exercise or decline both 2020 and 2021 options within 3 days after end of 2019 World Series.
If traded in 2020, 2021 option converts to a vesting option guaranteed if Kluber has 160 innings pitched in 2020 and is not on the disabled list at the end of the 2020 season.”
So we are both a little wrong and a little right. They never become player options, but if he is traded after the season the 2021 option vests upon reaching 160 innings. I didn’t know about the beating portion.
Burgeezy
Vesting*
Down with OBP
There are just under 100 games left in the season….i guess statistically speaking certain things are “more likely” to happen, but that seems like a lot of games left.
jb19
Trading Brad Hand makes a lot of sense, he will net back a top 50 prospect with the performance and control for the next couple years.
jb19
Also, Bauer seems like a nut case. Trading him for anything seems like a wise move since he will not be resigned this offseason… but I wouldn’t count they Indians out just yet. A lot of baseball left to play and a solid roster, assuming the players on the IL come back and contribute.
Michael Chaney
Bauer isn’t a free agent until next offseason
crowntowndodgerdog
Indians should have done their homework on Verdugo while they had a chance.
hockeyjohn
Do you have facts that show that indeed the Dodgers would have traded Verdugo?
The Ghost of Bobby Bonilla
Dodgers offered Verdugo and Joc Pederson for Kluber. The Indians wanted Bellinger instead.
crowntowndodgerdog
Absolutely but they are highly classified so I will need to see your clearance levels
hockeyjohn
Go back to your day job as you are not a comedy writer.
crowntowndodgerdog
Stick to the hockey threads
hockeyjohn
You are still not very funny. Actually, you’re quite boring.
Soldierofgod619
If Padres overspend for a pitcher from Cleveland give me Mike Clevinger. Bauer is not an Ace and his control is not worth a huge return.
hockeyjohn
Clevinger is not available. Why would Cleveland trade Clevinger with his years of control?
Soldierofgod619
Trade you Mejia back for Brad Hand lol
Michael Chaney
You’d have to *really* overspend to get Clevinger
Rich Hill’s Elbow
If Cleveland is really thinking about pressing that reset button, the only guys I’d hold on to would be Bieber, Clevinger, Mercado, and Bauers. And since I’m guessing that the FO won’t be able to find the right deal for Lindor, Ramirez, Santana, Carrasco, and this summer, I’d advocate for them to be moved in the offseason.
However, moves that I’d urge Cleveland to make in the coming weeks would be:
– Bauer to Yankees
– Hand to Dodgers
– Kluber to Padres
waittilnextyear
They won’t move Carrasco at any time. Not only does he have a blood disorder – but he just signed a very team friendly extension,. Nobody is taking Ramirez, Padres will never take Kluber. Why would they risk it for a pitcher who will be out until August at best and having no idea if he’s recovered from his injury. As much as I’d hate it, Lindor is the most logical trade candidate. He’ll get a king’s ransom for a potential run in the next few years and they have no chance of winning a championship with the current lineup — Cannot see why you would hold on to Bauers — not worth what they gave up and is an absolute liability at the plate. If they could get a bucket of balls, I would take it
Michael Chaney
I honestly think Bauers needs a stint in Columbus. I’m not at all willing to give up on him (he’s way too young and was too good in the minors), but he looks extremely lost at the plate.
Burgeezy
I agree. Send him down and bring Bradley up. Move Santana to first and let Bradley DH. He’s already on the 40 man so there isnt really a downside
Polish Hammer
I’d sent Ramirez down, all the way down to A ball to regain his stroke. He still has an option left which makes no sense holding onto. Cliff Lee and Carrasco got sent down years ago after finding mlb success and then failing, and both eventually found themselves after bottoming out.
Drew Waters Bat
Corey Kluber and Brad Hand to the Braves for Adam Duvall and Johan Camargo.
Michael Chaney
I…uhhh…I hope this is a joke
hockeyjohn
Now this is funny, CrownTown.
mrperkins
Lindor for DeJong (with his contract already settled for likely very team friendly value for years) +Flaherty, Reyes, and any minor leaguer not named Gorman or Carlson. Who hangs up first?
chicagofan1978
Cardinals. Flaherty is gonna be an ace, Reyes will figure it out and Dejong eh. But for one guy? And cardinals probably aren’t passing the Cubs or Brewers. Sorry
hockeyjohn
That one guy is a superstar. Indians would hang up.
The Ghost of Bobby Bonilla
The only way Lindor gets dealt this season is for an all-time record haul. Cleveland would laugh at that offer.
They have until Trade Deadline 2021 to deal him.
petrie000
I think the Indians wait until the Cardinals mention who the headliner is… Then put them on speaker phone so they can hear the whole office laughing…
playicy
Indians need to fire their idiot manager and fire sale now, because their not going anywhere with the red hot twins
Michael Chaney
Without Francona, they’d probably be 5-10 games under .500. He’s not a problem by any means.
Polish Hammer
Brilliant! Despite everything going wrong they’re still in the hunt. And even if they don’t catch the Twins they can still claim the Wild Card.
timewalk42
Indians are done and will miss the playoffs they need bats and have nothing to acquire them they could’ve had Edwin for cheap but decided that they rather not pay him The Indians are try to be the Rays with no talent and a horrible minor system the superior pitching staff is injured and has no defense behind it can anyone name the starting 8 position players without assistance from google?
Avory
HA-HA-HA-HA..HA-HA-HA-HA..oh, that’s a knee-slapper! {snort, wheeze} Hoo-boy, you had me going there, for a minute…good one! It’s hard impersonating an uninformed Indians fan–I mean, they’re so dumb–but you nailed it! Good job!