The Pirates are “believed” to be making right-hander Jordan Lyles available to rival organizations in trade talks, according to Jon Heyman of MLB Network (via Twitter). The report also cites corner outfielders Corey Dickerson and Melky Cabrera as potential trade pieces, but suggests that there is not yet reason to believe the organization intends to move its more valuable and controllable assets.
In some regards, it’s obvious that Lyles would feature as a trade candidate. Indeed, he placed among the top 15 such players on this summer’s market in MLBTR’s initial ranking. We dropped him from the most recent list, however, when the club pulled to within 2.5 games of the division pace at the All-Star break. Unfortunately for the Bucs, they’ve already stumbled back to a 6.5-game deficit in the past week.
All that being said, there are some elements that would suggest the Pittsburgh organization probably isn’t (or shouldn’t be) ready to move Lyles just quite yet. For one thing, it’s eminently possible that another quick swing could put the team right back into solid position in the division. Cashing in Lyles for what’s likely to be a marginal return wouldn’t seem to make a ton of sense unless the club is pretty well buried — which it may soon be — or if it also has intentions of pursuing trades of other, more significant players as part of a broader roster re-shaping.
Unfortunately, it’s also not opportune timing for extracting value out of Lyles. He’s owed only $2.05MM this year, which will hold plenty of appeal to certain contenders. But he has also been shelled in each of his past two outings, allowing a stunning 14 earned runs while recording only 14 outs.
Those ugly showings shouldn’t completely override the otherwise solid showing this year from Lyles. He was never going to keep up his early pace, but he entered the month of July with a sturdy 3.71 ERA. Through 75 total innings, he has racked up eighty strikeouts against 31 walks while matching last year’s bump up to a 10.3% swinging-strike rate. That said, he has shown some less-than-ideal changes in terms of contact — particularly, allowing opposing hitters to record a 42.5% hard-contact rate and 89.4 mph average exit velocity (both career-worst numbers for Lyles).
Dickerson and Cabrera have long been possible trade candidates, though the reason why is shifting. With Gregory Polanco now seemingly sidelined indefinitely, there isn’t as much roster pressure to move one of those rental players. But the dive in the standings is creating a new basis for a swap.
The most interesting question remains whether the Pirates will explore deals for some of their best trade assets. It seems likely that, if rentals are moved, the team will at least entertain proposals on players such as closer Felipe Vazquez and outfielder Starling Marte. There’s no reason that the organization can’t hold tight and look to build around those stars and others entering 2020, though one wonders whether a more decisive strategy will at some point be necessary for an organization that has not cracked the postseason since 2015.
There is zero reason to trade Vazquez unless some team wants to make the overpay of the century in return. He just isn’t available, nor should he be. There might be a slim chance they trade Marte but I just don’t see them doing it.
Recent deadline trades for closers have brought top 100 prospects to some sellers:
Remember when The Yankees got Gleyber Torres for Chapman back in 2016? Or when the Yankees traded Andrew Miller back in 2016 for Clint Frazier AND Justus Sheffield?
It will be a good for the organization to take aim for the 2019 season and beyond
Especially after trading Meadows and Glasnow for a 5th starter
You are my hero. Go Rays
Not as lucky as the Astros fans tho
Let’s assume the Pirates got a “HUGE” package in return for Vazquez. The biggest return for a reliever was the Chapman deal.
Would adding Gleyber Torres, Adam Warren, Rashad Crawford and Billy McKinney make the Pirates into a playoff team? A World Series team?
No.
Would it even change their slot in the standings?
Probably not. But trading Vazquez sure would.
Sounds like the return they should’ve netted for GCole tho
Can’t believe he couldn’t pull Forrest Whitley in that deal
The Astros were pretty clear that they were not going to trade their top two or three prospects.
NH opted for quantity versus quality in the best trade that he could make at the time.
Now is the time to trade him. Get some serious talent for a luxury item they don’t need.
He is not a luxury item.He is their only proven good reliever.
For too many good and bad reasons the Pirates would be a crappy team without Vasquez.They need to keep him or give up on this year and next.
Vasquez to the dodger for Gavin Lux and a low to mid tier prospect. Who hangs up first?
The Dodgers laugh you out of the room. Lux and May are untouchable. You guys need catching prospects so they can do a package headlined by Keibert Ruiz. Lux is a mix of Seager and Bellinger. Friedman isn’t trading him for a reliever.
Massive underpay for Vazquez. Or at least should be.
Pirates need a catcher. Will Smith
Then you ain’t gettin’ no Vazquez.
lol then you’re not getting Vazquez. Why are Dodgers fans having such a hard time understanding if they want Vazquez, they HAVE to overpay. The Pirates have no reason to move him right now, so they have to be overwhelmed in a deal.
Archer should be made available too.
Even if he is, it might be a moot point because no one might want him. And if the Bucs are going to essentially admit that they screwed up by acquiring Archer (and they did), they aren’t going to just give him away after giving up way too much to get him.
In other words: don’t hold your breath, Pittsburgh and Archer are stuck with each other for awhile.
Archer will still be in demand just because he has a live arm and good swing and miss. Always has been healthy and we all know that there’s another pitching coach who can fix him. Still has a great contract.
He supposedly has made some adjustments and his last two starts have been quality… maybe over the offseason and hopefully they can get .50c on the dollar back for what they gave up to get him
He has looked a bit better lately. But IMO it’s going to take a longer sustained period of success for Archer’s trade value to rise enough to make any return for Pittsburgh worthwhile… so yes, maybe this offseason is a reasonable target if the Pirates want to move him. I just meant that I doubt he’s going anywhere now.
They should stay the course with Archer and see if this improvement is close to permanent.
He does have talent,more so than the other starting pitchers that they have.
And that includes Taillon who cannot stay healthy enough to provide staff leadership.
Face it people. The pirates will trade the whole team to keep from paying them. I would not trust Neil to make a trade decision. Ie archer trade. However, bob never wants to finish last in the division. Therefore, they won’t trade too much.
Archer would pitch better if he didn’t throw like that.
They should have made Lyles available after his first four starts of the season when he had value.
It’s actually a good thing they didn’t try to trade Lyles earlier this year because everyone in their rotation has spent time on the injured list; at one point I think 4 of the 5 were out. Now that everyone except Taillon is back, Lyles can be shopped.
Hard to believe he’s only 28. He’s been around forever
Aside from the part where he got lucky the first time…
What made Feliz think it was a good idea to groove two center square fastballs in a row to Goldschmidt?
EVERY SINGLE TIME the local media has pushed “the Nutting is cheap and the Pirates don’t want to win, they just kick the can down the road” there has been an actual baseball reason for doing it (with the ultimate goal of attempting to win) but they were either lazy or pushing an agenda, so they ignored that and just screamed “Nutting’s Wallet!!!”
IF they trade Vazquez and Marte, it WOULD be just kicking the can down the road, likely for the sake of saving money. There would be NO legit baseball reason for it.
Marte is controlled for 2.5 more years. Vazquez for 4.5 more years. That’s without issuing qualifying offers. They are elite players at key positions if one intends to win.
They have Bell for 3.5 more years. Assuming they can’t keep him (not sure it’s as certain as some think, but…) and that they might want to trade him before he walks, the Pirates window is 2020 and 2021. Trading Vazquez and Marte blows up that window.
So, any talk of trading Marte and Vazquez should include trading Bell. Why kick two cans without kicking the third? Why just leave it alongside the road?
I can see trading Marte but not Vazquez. The bullpen is pretty much a disaster and having a young and cheap closer is great, but dealing Marte would be trading from a position of depth. Unfortunately the Pirates won’t be big players in free agency, so they need to hit on trades and draft picks.
They don’t have anyone to replace Bell, Marte is somewhat replaceable once Polanco is back, and if they’d keep Dickerson around for one more year.
Actually, Marte would be the hardest to replace. By far.
They could find a closer, not one nearly as good, but who could do the job. First basemen can be found and Will Craig is behind him.
Aside from Swaggerty who is years away and still a maybe himself, the Pirates have no one to replace Marte in CF. No one. Yes, they could put Reynolds in CF the way they put Frazier and JB Schuck there, but Reynolds has way less range and no arm. He is a LF.
Without Marte, outs become hits, singles become doubles and the pitching deteriorates. They went 1-9 when he was on the IL this year.
This. Everyone who talks about the need to trade Marte fails to point out that the Bucs have no one to replace him with, and also that Marte’s defense is in some ways irreplaceable.
Very good points. I would just be deathly afraid of losing Bell. It’s been so long since the Pirates had a legit middle of the order power hitter like him, Alvarez always had hope but couldn’t hit well enough and get on base. McCutchen kinda but really the power bat that Bell is unless he was on one of his tears. He’s probably the biggest power bat we’ve had since Jason Bay.
Alvarez was a good power hitter.His problem as we know is that he did not have a position and did not work to get better.What could have been a fine career dwindled into nothingness.He was not aggressive enough at working at his trade,and as such wasted a very good talent.
The real question Josh is why did Clint Hurdle pitch Feliz in the first place instead of Rodriguez.
I know that Feliz has pitched well lately but not in pressure situations.
I am convinced that Hurdle does not know how to win unless he has a great bullpen.
I think that Hurdle is in general a good manager but he does not bring energy and treats the relievers with kid gloves.
The Pirates will never win close games with him as manager.
5.16 ERA / 4.44 FIP – why would a team want to get worse? Lyles is terrible and always has been. Easily one of the worst pitchers in the game.
Making their garbage available how nice. Lyles is pitching like someone who should get designated for assignment why would a team wants him. And I get he’s bad defensively but how does melky have a negative war with an average over .300 questionable to say the least
Pirates are making Jordan Lyles available on the market. I am putting my broken down 1990 Dodge Dakota truck on the market as well. I expect to get more calls than the Pirates.
No offense to Jordan Lyles but if he actually makes your team better should you really consider yourself a buyer?
Good point.He started out very well this year,but there evidently was a reason that the Pirates were the only bidder in the Jordan Lyles sweepstakes.
After the Archer trade last year, nothing should surprise us. Here’s a FO that’s all over the road and without a map. Get rid of veterans, then later give up on some of the shining stars of tomorrow.
Almost everybody should be available on this roster, but reading that they are making guys like Lyles, Dickerson and Cervelli available will only draw laughter
Sheesh
Cervelli is obviously untreadeble but everybody knows that including the FO of the Pirates.
Lyles pretty much the same but they should put him in the bullpen to see if he can pitch there and regain his April effectiveness.They are not exactly filled up with good relievers.
Dickerson is for sure tradeable and should get a decent prospect in return.