The latest from the ATL…
- While the Braves were heavily linked to the starting pitching market, GM Alex Anthopoulos told reporters (including Gabriel Burns of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution) that the team was “never even remotely close” to landing an arm for the rotation. “At the end of the day, where we thought there were deals that made sense for us, we felt like the bullpen made the most sense,” Anthopoulos said. “We definitely tried for other areas, but we obviously couldn’t line up on a deal that made sense for our organization.” Of course, the Braves already made a noteworthy starting pitching addition in June when Dallas Keuchel was signed, and Anthopoulos’ front office heavily bolstered the pen over the last two days with trades for Shane Greene, Mark Melancon, and Chris Martin.
- One of the starters the Braves had interest in was the biggest name moved at the trade deadline, as ESPN.com’s Buster Olney reports (Twitter link) that the “Braves were in on” negotiations about Zack Greinke with the Diamondbacks. However, Atlanta ultimately decided “it was just too pricey, and too much risk on an older pitcher.” The Astros ended up landing Greinke for a big trade package that included four prospects and covering $53MM of Greinke’s salary obligations.
- Speaking of the Greene deal, the Braves were able to make that trade without including catcher Alex Jackson, as Anthony Fenech of the Detroit Free Press reports that Atlanta turned down the Tigers’ ask for the 23-year-old prospect. Jackson is ranked as the the 26th-best prospect in Atlanta’s system by MLB Pipeline, and is in the midst of a huge season at Triple-A (.887 OPS in 283 PA). Picked sixth overall by the Mariners in the 2014 draft, Jackson’s prospect stock dropped after a slow start to his pro career, though a position switch to catcher three years ago and this season’s hitting breakout has gotten him back on the radar.
Man luke Jackson sucks
Toats
Toats?? I just threw up a little bit..
How did I get from a baseball talk forum to a HS prom chatroom?
Yep. Most blown saves in the MLB.
I dropped him in 2 fantasy leagues. I’m thinking of picking him up in another just so I can drop him again.
Disagree. Luke Jackson had been really good, he just shouldn’t be closing.
Are we saying he’s been good by Luke Jackson standards or by mlb standards?
Well, he has been in the top 10 for cy young predictions.
Freeman said Braves wouldn’t be in first if not for him.
… of course Freeman is going to say that. He’s the ultimate nice guy. Jackson Sucks, I flip the channel everytime he shows up on the mound. Been a fan since 90, so not a band wagoner here. He’s worse than Dan Kolb was.
He’s right, we wouldn’t be first, but we could also have a 20 game lead if it weren’t for him. And that’s the truth
Steelerbrave…looks like we tried
I was thinking about how many posts I’ve read from them wanting Greinke. I think a piece of them died inside with this post.
Yes after I saw Arizona’s return I was ok with not getting Greinke
We are not in the Verlander move away yet
Hopefully Folty can come up at some point and regain what he is missing from last year
I expect some moves next offseason though
Folty put too much workload on his arm last year. He won’t ever be the same. He’s not your savior ace.
Braves need to hit on an ace prospect or buy one. Teams don’t win a championship without an ace.
Ace, ace, ace!
Soroka is well on the way
I’m interested in seeing how Folty would do as a closer rather than continuing as a starter
Grienke was my #1 want, even with all the dollars attached to him. Still shocked we covered all the money on Melancon, even it is just this year and next.
Agreed. That $18M makes no sense. I can’t imagine they’d have required any better prospects if we’d told them to eat a few million.
…just $35MM more for Greinke…I don’t get paying that much for Melancon. What am I missing?
AA & Farhan are buddies hopefully this scratch of his back helps when it’s time for him to scratch ours lol
Arizona’s demand
Chuckling a little at the phrase “just $35MM more”. Not disagreeing, just marveling at the money.
Agreed. It’s a lot of money, but it really depends on how you see a 35 y/o Greinke. He seems to have reinvented himself, not unlike Verlander, which HOU has benefitted from for a few years, while also avoiding the massive long-term deals that his previous team shed. Has HOU done it again with Greinke? It looks as if they’ve avoided paying Cole big money by letting him walk in the offseason and most likely recommitting to Verlander in a high AAV/short-term deal. That’s speculation, but if that’s the case, I can see why they would give up the prospects while also keep their top ones (Tucker, Whiteley).
Verlander signed an extension through the 2021 season…
I just saw the interview with AA during the broadcast. It seems the Braves were mostly focused on Greene at the deadline, and just wanted to get the Melancon deal knocked out. AA probably decided it was just money, and getting it completed was the priority. In that sense, I think he failed a little bit.
Ah yes, thanks. Forgot about that.
Dodgers own Greinke and they will have to get through LA to move on. Good choice in my opinion
The real question is now with Greinke in the budget will the Astros still offer up enough money to keep both Springer and Correa from leaving
I’m not sure how AA’s comment that he was” just too pricey and too much risk for an aging pitcher” makes sense. The Diamondbacks covered about half of Grienke’s remaining salary so Houston is only obligated to about $40 million or so. Grienke is under contract for 2 more years and he is owed about $10 million this year. Therefore what’s left is $29.5 million. Over two years is only about $15 million per year. For this kind of production is a GREAT contract. But it gets even better. 1/3 of his salary for 2019, 2020 and 2021 is spread out over the next three years: 2022, 2023 and 2024. Seriously ? The Braves couldn’t afford this ? As far as the aging comment: Grienke may be 35 but he has clearly weathered well since he has hardly missed any starts in 12 years. His performance has been phenomenal the last 3 years, including this year. So perhaps it had more to do with not lining up prospects than it did for $$$ or this aging comment or perhaps AA decided to push more for relief pitchers than starters and couldn’t have both ? Having Grienke would have shored up the staff considerably,.
No, AZ only covered 1/3 of his contract. He’s owed $77MM still and Arizona is paying $24MM. Not even close to half and those terms were listed in the article.
Where did you get your figures?
Did you read the article?
The article states:
“……..and covering $53MM of Greinke’s salary obligations.”
_
Fact is that due to the penalties incurred by AA’s predecessor towards the Braves by the Commissioners Office, the Braves are limited in their exposure to the International market. Since they cannot sign players from the International market, the Braves are limited as to how many of their quality minor league prospects they can trade without depleting their farm system. For years they’ll be hamstrung to replenish the farm system with quality players as players get promoted, get traded, or wash out. If they want to continue to be a contender for the next 3-5 years, it’s paramount that they assure a continued string of cheap, young players coming onto their ML roster the next few years as their veterans will be getting pay raises.
Furthermore, going into the deadline I felt the Braves needed 2 quality relievers – one a closer. They got 3 quality relievers – one a closer. They are now the 2nd best team in the NL, but I don;t see them or the Nationals getting by the Dodgers this year….and possibly next.
I have hopes that in a few years Webb will grow into a closer. Until that time, they had to do something.
The ASTROS are the ones “covering $53MM of Greinke’s salary obligations.”
They are limited by who they can sign internationally but they still get the money to trade with so the farm system will be replenished just more than likely not to many stars coming thru
Look at the prospects they got. I agree with AA that it was way too high of a cost for a 35 year old pitcher.
Grienke was the wrong move for the Braves. All that money and still 3 prospect with one being top 100..that’s steep. I get the Astros on this. They are trying to solidify a world series win but I think the Braves need more about of their starting rotation before they are a Grienke or a Verlander away.
Also, something that some may not know about the Melancon deal that made me feel a little better about it. I don’t think Winkler was a desired piece by the Giants because they dfa’d him right away. The Braves didnt pay his salary either. So they get his salary of $1.6 million of salary relief and a roster spot so they don’t have to dfa someone.
Don’t get me wrong, that’s still a lot of money the Braves are covering but it does get the money under $17 million.
AA showed he is a superior GM to Atkins in Toronto. Although that did not take much effort to accomplish.
Mark Shapiro oversees what is done in Toronto.
He’s terrific at organization. But he knows little about baseball – scouting, developing players, etc. Indians turned the corner after he left (and before he left it seem clear that ownership took some of his authority on player moves away – at one point I believe he was running the business division).
Look at what the Indians got to meet their needs for Bauer; compared to what the Jays got to meet their needs in return for Stroman (similar pitchers, both free agents after 2020).
Most of the quality youngsters the Jays are bringing up were signed previous to Shapiro being hired. What shows in their trades at the deadline this week is the same thing he did in Cleveland – throw a bunch of stuff up against the wall and hope something sticks.
Bichette was drafted by Atkins, and by most accounts he had his arm twisted to do so. The first overall picks in 2016 and 2017 (Zeuch, Warmoth) have flatlined. Gurriel was also an Atkins signing.
All I hear from Cleveland fans is how they believe the greatest trade they’ve made the last 15 years is Shapiro to Toronto. That speaks volumes.
Greinke would have been a perfect fit for this team and solidified a playoff rotation, but the haul would have set the whole organization back in 3 years.
Would be nice to go for it all right now but AA has been snakebitten before and is a little gun shy about Anderson being another Syndergaard.
We shall see how it all unfolds in the end.
Difference is at the time, Syndergaard wasn’t even a highly touted prospect. That deal was headlined by D’Arnaud.
Not entirely true
Thor was a major part of that deal
jaysjournal.com/2018/05/15/blue-jays-trade-review-…
Looks like you are correct and I figured with your screen name you had good insight.
I don’t care what that article on the Blue Jays side says but I remember here in NY that when the trade happened of course the Mets May have preferred Norris but being as though d ‘ Arnaud was the top prospect that they wouldn’t get Norris too being as though he was their top pitching prospect.
But I remember the Mets best reporters over here saying that was the pt her they targeted instead of Norris & a position player they wanted Travis & Noah
It’s not like Thor wasn’t a prospect himself he was a 1st round pick
I don’t think the Braves should have traded for Greinke. That said, that kind of thinking is why the Braves haven’t won a World Series since the turn of the century. Too concerned with competing for longer years instead of going for it. Kind of sick of winning division titles, tbh. World Series wins are what matters. When those 3 (Anderson, Pache, and Waters) graduate it’s going to be hard to go for it without spending money which the Braves have not been known for, for a long time.
Something has to give and AA has to keep being creative to make it happen. I think he’s the guy to do it. Past FO has been too conservative in dealing prospects and rightfully so after some of the deals, but you have to take more gambles to reach the destination. I’ve never liked NY teams but I respect their media for pushing as hard as they do. They put pressure on everyone to get it done. ATL is too relaxed and too concerned about winning the division. It gets very tiresome.
Without getting into the Syndagaard argument, I doubt he’s shy about big trades or scared to lose a “Noah Syndagaard.” I think his time with the Dodgers changed how he does business who tends to prefer letting their prospects develope into productive players than trade them for older, more expensive stars.
“We definitely tried for other areas, but we obviously couldn’t line up on a deal that made sense for our organization”
Same **** different year! Hopefully, a AAA title is still possible.
Can’t come up with any new shtick?
Nope. Neither can the Braves every off season and deadline. Some things never change!
At least you are being honest how boring your stuff is…
just as boring as the terrible braves rotation.
Are you really complaining about AA not giving up the farm for Greinke? Did you not see what Houston gave up? The only thing we could be remotely mad about is not getting Stroman which every GM around the league is pissed about because it just doesnt make sense. Every deal we made was perfect for now and it didn’t mortgage the future. Considering we can sign Gerrit Cole, Wheeler, Bumbargner or even Cole Hamels this off season, I would definitely consider this trade deadline a huge win. Us winning in the playoffs will most likely come down to our bats and if theyre hot at the right time. As of now, we have a ton of trouble hitting really good pitching, which is what we will see against the Dodgers. Us trading away the farm for Stroman, Greinke, Ray, Bumgarner, etc just wasnt worth it.
“Every deal we made was perfect for now and it didn’t mortgage the future. Considering we can sign Gerrit Cole, Wheeler, Bumbargner or even Cole Hamels this off season”
I’m willing to bet not of those guys will be a Brave next year. Too expensive!
If they don’t trade for Syn, or sign Cole, then don’t bother going for it next season.
What bothers me the most is not the fact that they didn’t go all out this year, but knowing that next year is not guaranteed and the teams in your division will only get better not worse.
You’re acting like we were a trade away from competing with the Dodgers. In all honesty, we could have gotten Stroman and that wouldnt have dramatically improved our chances to win the WS (according to Vegas odds). We can say what we want about the Braves being cheap, but AA is a hell of a GM and seems to know what he’s doing. He has even proven to go against the “cheap” mindset with the Donaldson and Keuchel signings. They are in it to win it and to think otherwise is naive and childish/spoiled. If you can’t handle being a fan because we didn’t make every single trade you would have liked to see, then good riddance.
So you are saying the Braves should let the Kings of the NL pass away passively before the Braves take over? Why not try to compete and beat the team that beat you in 2013 and 2018?
What we did yesterday is 100% trying to compete. Our weakest link was the bullpen and we DRAMATICALLY improved it. That’s not trying to compete to you? Not every move is a blockbuster.
No question. Just sending down Minter would have been enough to improve the bullpen without adding to it. However, the bullpen will be irrelevant when JT and Fried give up 5+ runs within the first 3 innings to teams not named Marlins and like in the playoffs.
Everything was good minus covering all of melancon’s contract if he was going to do that he should have just brought back Kimbrel in my opinion
Ill agree that this lineup definitely struggles against ones and twos and feasts off the others.
My biggest concern is the rotation, but you feel every time soroka takes the mound you’re going to win. Keuchel is solid and fried can be lights out, but they both need to become more consistent every start to be truly confident in. Folty is the true wild card on the team from here on out, if he can get that slider going again like times last season, it’s game on.
In the end, it’s hard to be mad at AA for not going hard after greinke. He did get us keuchel and a very much improved BP. Not much more you can ask for without mortgaging the farm.
I agree, though having to face Soroka, Keuchel and pick a third, will be no walk in the park for any team. Soroka is filthy and is never intimidated, Keuchel has great playoff experience and if Teheran is on one of his freak hot stretches, we’re looking very solid. I think this postseason is going to go against the norm of low scoring games and we will continue to see runs put on the board. We will need to score 5+ runs a game to beat the Dodgers.
I’m just curious, how long have you been a Braves fan? Since two years ago? Because you clearly seem to not remember the days of a terrible team and a crap farm system. The team is good, the system is producing. Can’t you just go be a Phillies fan or something since you seemed to be so mad the Braves didn’t sign Harper.
And that’s why braves never win ws
that is also why they have not advanced past the first round since 2002.
Who is your favorite team? Most franchises would kill to have the success the Braves have had.
Lol. Alex Jackson stinks.
My favorite line from delusional fans is that the Braves window just started. While the Braves celebrate a bunch of unproven prospects getting called up, the teams in their division will just stare at the wall and do nothing. Everything is rainbows and unicorns and will work out for the best.
Their window did just start. Their a young team that literally just finished the rebuild and have superstars in place for years to come with some extremely touted prospects due to make a dent in the next yr or 2. How hard is that to understand? Why don’t you stop trolling and actually do something with your life besides be an annoying moron.
Maybe if we stop feeding this troll he’ll go camp out under another teams bridge. He wanted Harper and Machado so bad this off-season, I think he should be a fan of one of those not in first place teams.
How many starters do they have under the age of 23 and are all signed for a long time? Yea, Id say their window just started.
The Mets will keep doing what they do. Kill their farm and try to win now, but it doesn’t work. And their farm is atrocious. Improvements need to come from free agency. The Nats will have huge bucks tied up in Rendon, Stras, Corbin, and Scherzer so it will be challenging for them to improve much more and their awesome farm is kind of up now (Soto, Robles, Keiboom). The Phillies will keep raising their payroll and come at the Braves though. Their farm is mediocre but they’ll spend til something works.
The Braves have a solid higher level farm (Pache, Waters, Wright, Anderson, Muller) and a MLB young core (Acuna, Albies, Swanson, Riley, Camargo, Soroka, Fried). It’s a pretty long window unless no one else signs extensions, re-signs, or is worth QOs when the time comes from 2023-2027. 2019-2028 looks like a solid competitive window and the TV contract is up in 2024 so they’ll actually have money to spend towards the end of that window
Their future will be highly highly dependent on how well their prospects perform and that is a huge question mark. The Braves will not make big moves at the FA market even if there is a perfect player available (Cole). The other teams will spend and try to compete.
Pache, Waters, Wright, Anderson….none of these guys are guaranteed to work out. None. Now I’m not arguing trading them all but if you will not spend money (while keeping prospects) aka Cole, then you should trade these prospects when players are available via trade. That is one advantage the Braves have yet they continue to be reluctant.
Tell us again how LM is using team revenue to boost their coffers? Proof?
Of course the Cheap Braves weren’t in on anyone that cost more than .10 on the dollar. Easy to say they were in when in reality everyone knows the first round sweep will continue
The worst part is this has been going on for quite a while.
When they were not contending, the excuse was, why trade prospects?
When they are contending, the excuse is, why trade prospects?
No matter where they are in the standing, the excuse is the same.
Here’s the good news- there are 29 other teams you can go root for. Clearly the Braves are not good for the quality of your life
Have you ever said a single positive thing about the braves?
The amount of casual “positive” delusional fans are plentiful enough to build multiple walls. No need for more!
Based on his performance over the last 2.5 years in SF, I wouldn’t be so fast to brag about the acquisition of Mark Melancon. He had an opportunity to be a “hero” in SF and tanked !!
You may be right, however, the Braves have already picked up one reliever this year who was struggling with their old team, came over and became very good (Swarzak). We shall see
He is not coming to be a hero
He in all actuality just be brought in to get a much needed groundballs
I don’t know I may just be optimistic
And damn no matter how I try to spin it damn it hurts we didn’t get Greinke
Would you rather have given them Pache, waters, Anderson and another 1/2 mid level prospects I personally would have loved to get him also but not at that price not even mentioning the money he is owed also
Just because the Astros gave up their number 3,4,5 prospects doesn’t mean the Braves had to give up their 3,4,5 prospects
Different teams prospects hold different values. It woulda def costed one of Pache, Waters, Anderson or Wright but just like Tucker & Whitley we’re off limits I am sure AA coulda made some off limits too
A package of Wright, Muller, Touki & Jenista I feel could have rivaled what Houston sent back. But who knows water under the bridge now.
We got a better bullpen which was the biggest weakness of the team and hopefully Golty comes back to something close to what he was last year.
Don’t forget Folty didn’t have much of a spring training at all with his elbow issues so maybe some time in AAA will allow him to get his game right
How long the Dodgers window ???
Braves window started last year and are built for the long haul
Julio Urias is 22. Cody Bellinger and Alex Verdugo are 23, Walker Buehler and Will Smith are 24, Corey Seager is 25. Dustin May is coming up. Max Muncy is 28, which might mean he’s just hitting his prime. Gavin Lux and Tony Gonsolin and Keibert Ruiz are on the way.
The Dodgers’ window isn’t likely closing anytime soon.
The Dodgers should be solid for quite a while though the 2019 Ryu, Kershaw, Maeda domination won’t hang on forever whether from age or contract demands. They are right at the tail of their primes (31-32 y/o) but watch them be like Grienke and pitch near their best through 35
Kershaw isn’t the guy I remember, but he’s still an ace. He’s just not the best pitcher on the planet anymore.
Ryu has actually gotten better in the last two years, and he does not rely on velocity but pinpoint location. Braves fans might know a guy who pitched into his 40s doing that. But LA has to resign Ryu, which I do think they will.
Then it’s Buehler, who is an ace already, Urias (eventually), Dustin May, Tony Gonsolin, Dennis Santana, and probably some other names I’ve forgotten in the system. Given the Dodgers’ track record for their prized prospects being every bit of what we are told they’ll be, I’m optimistic about the next batch.
I should add that I wasn’t bullish on Alex Verdugo, and yet here we are. Now I just trust the organization when they say someone is untouchable. So far they’ve all been as advertised.
so did anyone see that the astros got greinke
far as I can tell, NOBODY saw it before it happened. Which is fascinating.
it was so cool
Is it just me or is Greinke not going to be a game change the talking heads make him put to be?
I thought he always flourished in secondary roles for some reason. Yes, he is a bonafide ace, but his time on Kershaw’s LAD he consistently dominated and had some of his most productive years (with his 2009 Cy Young year in KC being the exception).
Imagining him with the rest of that staff, bullpen and that offense – good grief. I thought Ryu/Kershaw/Buehler was nasty, but even that doesn’t compare to the Stros 3 now.
Agreed but you know with Kershaw in the playoffs he is going to go all Greg Maddox on them and cough it up during the playoffs. When he doesn’t Dave Roberts will pull any starter after a single hit in the 2nd inning. Like the 1/15 Braves of the 90’s this Dodgers team isn’t winning anything post season soon. Just another season long conversation about how good they are just to get rolled again and again in the Playoffs like the Braves used to get CHOPPED it is now a yearly ritual.
Jackson is having a HUGE season at AAA? He’s hitting .239. He’s been HBP (16) almost as much as he’s walked(19). That’s helping his OBP of .332. His OPS is 887 on a team that has 5 guys with over .900 OPS.
Duvall is mashing. Hes the 2020 Donaldson of 16.