Sam Dyson and Sergio Romo represented the sum total of the Twins’ midseason additions as the club tries to hold its lead atop the AL Central. While Dyson and Romo address needs in the bullpen, Minnesota was also very aggressive in looking for starting pitching, though ultimately came up short in reinforcing the rotation.
Rival teams continually asked the Twins about top prospects Royce Lewis and Alex Kirilloff, with the Mets among the multiple clubs who asking for both youngsters. New York wanted both Lewis and Kiriloff in discussions about Noah Syndergaard, and if premium minor league talent wasn’t available for the ace, the Mets were also focused on adding Major League players, to the point of asking Minnesota about Byron Buxton in a possible Syndergaard deal.
Lewis and Kirilloff were also on the mind of the Blue Jays’ front office, as Toronto was looking for either of the prospects in exchange for Marcus Stroman. Minnesota turned down this initial request, and The Athletic’s Dan Hayes reports that the Jays never called back with any other offers before trading Stroman to the Mets. This would seem to indicate that the Jays were only interested in Lewis and Kirilloff specifically, though Hayes writes that “the Twins were disappointed when Toronto didn’t give them a chance to match an offer they believed they could have outdone.”
Beyond the prospects, Hayes tweeted that Luis Arraez was “everyone’s favorite ask” amongst teams who were offering rental players to Minnesota. Arraez has been a revelation for the Twins over his first 43 Major League games, as the rookie is hitting .349/.422/.445 over 166 plate appearances. Arraez has long boasted strong averages and on-base numbers in the minors, and while regression is inevitable, his .361 xwOBA isn’t far off his .388 wOBA. With this much potential, it isn’t hard to see why the Twins were reluctant to part with a 22-year-old, multi-positional talent for only a rental player (or potentially anyone).
Hayes reports that the Twins were considering both Robbie Ray and Mike Minor, though concerns about Ray’s durability and Minor’s July struggles diminished the interest. On the relief front, the Twins also had interest in Pirates closer Felipe Vazquez.
“It was one of the most unique trade deadlines I’ve ever experienced,” Twins GM Thad Levine told Hayes and other reporters. “One error I made was assuming that early in the trade cycle that the leverage was towards the seller. I assumed that there was going to be a little bit of a shift of that see-saw back to the buyer as we got closer to the deadline. I’m not sure we ever saw the shift in the see-saw. The sellers felt pretty emboldened. They set the prices high, which is very normal in a trade deadline. But I’m not sure they moved off of those high asks at any point, and as a result, there were just a finite number of players that meaningfully changed the fortunes of playoff-contending teams.”
Early talks with the Giants involving multiple players (including Dyson, Madison Bumgarner, and Will Smith) did result in the late Dyson trade. Minnesota and San Francisco re-engaged in talks just 45 minutes before the 3pm CT deadline, medicals on the four players in the deal were exchanged at 2:50pm, and the trade was finalized with just five minutes to spare.
Lol @ the Jays front office! -smh-
Who does trades that way? Call once, aim high and never negotiate. No wonder they got fleeced all the way to the deadline
They took the best offer they had. But didn’t ask for other offers. Weird strategy
Someone mentioned before that they were slighting Stroman by sending him to the Mets. That has to be the only explanation lmao.
Slighting home by sending him to New York like he wanted
TOR is very high on Richardson and have been since the 2018 draft. The Mets grabbed him before TOR could draft him. Supposedly they were willing to take slightly less to get him, which is why they didn’t bother shopping the offer.
It wasn’t that bad a deal for them, they needed arms and I doubt any other teams were going to give them two of their top pitching prospects for a #2/3 starter with one more year of control.
As I understand it, the Jays asked high and the Twins turned them down. The Jays then waited for the Twins to counteroffer, which they never did. Then the Twins were surprised that the Jays did not give them the last offer.
Standard rule of negotiation – never negotiate against yourself.
sounds about right from the Jays. ask for the moon, get told no, move on. this team doesnt seem to negotiate but rather just take the first suitable offer it is presented.
I mean how do you not circle back when you deal your ace 3 days before the deadline?
Yeah, if the Stoman deal had happened minutes before the deadline I could understand the missing connection and a lesser deal. But they had all the time in the world to try and get something better from the Twins. This is really an indictment of the Jay’s FO.
Maybe the Twins were given the opportunity to better the offer made by the Mets and they just did not offer anything more than they were. Can’t make any team offer more than they want to for your player on the market. You sound like those Pirate fans that parrot the Pittsburgh Media and think the Pirates FO can force the same trade from other GMs as well. smh…..
I wish the twins got more and Dyson already gave up and blew the save today. The twins are so good but the bullpen is not scary except for Rogers. Nobody throws over 94 and it shows.
Dyson does
And so does May.
May sucks…
Giants sold about as high as they possibly could on Dyson, Pomeranz, and Melancon yesterday.
Gmenfan, I disagree on Dyson, feel they could have gotten better quality, but Pomeranz they definitely did well, and if initial reports are correct that Braves picking up all Melancon contract, then they did great there too.
Why was Dyson closing the game anyway? He’s not really a closer, just decent bullpen arm. Rogers should have been in.
Rogers has been slammed with work lately. A 3 run cushion seemed a safe way to gift the new reliever with an opportunity. A shame this one didn’t work out. But they will get right back up on the horse. As for Stroman – yeah, MN could have beat the crap out of that lame return TOR ended up with 3 days early. Must have been a message to Stroman – eerily similar to what happened to Bauer: “Bye bye post season action”…
You’re over 94 thing is so wrong it’s laughable. Most of our bullpen can reach that, it’s just that they’re inconsistent. May, Dyson, Poppen, Rogers, Duffey, and Littell throw over 94. It’s not always necessarily about power. Need to locate it and have better off speed stuff.
Bro I know it’s just that velo intimidates hitters and none of our guys consistently do that or have it
Dyson arrived mid game to a new team. Why would they even pitch him today? So stupid
Agree, Give the guy a day before throwing him out there !!!
I don’t mind them throwing him out there. But fans have to understand the circumstances, and give the guy a break. Not only that, it probably won’t be his last blown save. But 1 blown save is nothing. Even Mariano blew a save every once in a while.
Almost as stupid as putting Dyson in straight off the plane was the decision last night to pull Berrios after 7 having only thrown 80-some pitches. The bullpen has been a weak point all year. Rocco only trusts a small handful of those relievers, all of whom are in danger of getting burned out. Yet rather than have Berrios finish the game (probably on about 100 pitches) or at least get you one more inning; they bring in Sean Poppin, which led them to have to use Rogers yet again. I don’t care what the stats say about facing a batter a third time, those are only long term averages; when the starter has been rolling all night, is in firm control of the game, and has a low pitch count; don’t pull him out until he’s actually in trouble and makes you make a move! Over the course of the season it might make sense to not let the starters go through the line up that many times; but the way the game was going the Marlins weren’t going to suddenly light him up.
All their flamethrowers seem to flame out in the minors
I really enjoy the behind the scenes tidbits and insight into the back and forth teams go through to move players. Keep up the good work MLBTR.
All other 29 teams could have beat the Mets offer. The Jays are less competent than the Mets…
These mid-market teams have to go for it when they have a chance. The royals made legit moves when they won. They traded a top prospect for cueto and he’s already been released since then. Prospects turn into players less than a third of the time. The twins have a star at SS. Why do they need to hang onto Royce Lewis? Syndergaard makes them substantially better. Now.
I agree. It sucks to see a guy your team drafted and partially developed take off with another team… but if it nets you a game-changing talent… you have to pull the trigger. I probably would have traded Lewis+ for Stroman and Kirilloff+ for Thor. Can’t believe the Jays let the Mets fleece them again.
Yea… Kansas City gave up one top 100 prospect in that deal, and he was ranked in the 50’s at that time. New York asked for TWO top 20 prospects for a guy that has once pitched over 160 innings. I’d have laughed them off the phone too
I think Cuerto was a rental while Thor has TWO more seasons left after this year. That’s a huge difference.
Despite having a very talented roster, the Twins lack a superstar like Betts or Lindor, Lewis has a chance to be that for the Twins, why would we deal him the first chance we get?? I’d give him one more year before I even consider dealing him.
SS translates to being able to play multiple positions for the most part so he can always be moved off short if it makes sense for them
Jays could’ve had any of Larnach, Balazovic, or Duran, but instead they get greedy and settle for less, good job Statkins. Oh well, at least the Twins can always get a controllable starter in the offseason, the Jays don’t get a 2nd chance on this one.
No it’ll be tough to recover soon. They have time given “their timeline”. They’re going to have to start trading up for some pitching help…lol so backwards
In part I fault the Twins for not keeping in regular contact to know when the Jays moved off their dreams and on to realistic returns. That being said if I’m a Jays fan I’m apoplectic with their front office. Its one thing to want a Rolls Royce and try for one, its another to after learning that was just outside their to decide that rather than a Mercedes, Lexus, Porsche, etc. to offer to pay the same amount for a Ford Fiesta.
I’m guessing they thought the Jays would hold off on pulling the trigger on a deal until a little closer to the deadline unless they were blown away by an offer.
as we saw, asking price wasn’t selling price; these guys are right out of the terry ryan mold. Build a team to compete, not to win. never go all in. never play for the here and now. If they waited for The Jays to get back to them , the fault was theirs, in dickering a price, you need to be aggressive, not passive .. well they never got back to us.. is a cop-out of the 1st magnitude..
Not necessarily, if I have interested buyers in an asset, wether it be a car, or a stock, and I shop it, try and find your best price, circle back to all parties, knowing what your best price is, and asking if they can beat it, that’s the way I’d do it. But I mean, whatev, we will see how it works out.
It is, but it isn’t at the same time. Unless the previous offers were downright insulting, there’s little reason for the Jays GM not to circle back around and see if any other team that previously expressed interest will beat the current best offer. Its not like the Stroman trade was a deadline day deal so time shouldn’t have been an issue in negotiations. And from the Twins pov, there’s little reason to constantly keep checking in on Stroman if either (A) they weren’t 100% sold on Stroman being their guy or (B) trade negotiations never gained significant traction. The buyer (the Twins in this case) should never come off too desperate because it’ll likely lead to them overpaying.
Saying Jays never got back doesn’t mean Falvine didn’t keep checking in… You’re using the jump to conclusions mat. And the Terry Ryan trope is so tired now. Come up with something new
Why would they not go for the best improvement available in the market, these chances don’t come every day. Next year will be different. It is a lesson Terry Ryan never learned.. and his championships show that , all none of them. You go for the season when the opportunity arises. the waiting for that ” sure thing ” doesn’t work. There are no sure things in baseball especially when it come to championships. you gamble when you have the best horse you can put in the race.. Wait til next year was Ryan’s way.
Weird business, this MLB trading.
Well, if the Blue Jays simply weren’t interested in anyone in the Twins system, why would they bother to try and pick up the negotiations again?
If you go to buy a car, and the car yard doesn’t have what you want, then they try and sell you other cars you don’t want, why would you go back to take a longer look at them? You move on to the next car yard. Simple.
So you think the return they got from the Mets is what they wanted? If they wanted pitching they could have gotten better prospects back from a half dozen other interested teams. The Mets offer was so low that even teams that weren’t planning on being in on Stroman would have wanted to be in at that price. A team could even flip him in the winter for a better return than what the Mets gave up.
I think that’s exactly what’s going to happen this offseason. Thor and Stroman will get moved. Imagine the return if they get moved together!
I think they really like Woods-Richardson. He could be a real fast mover and I think the Jays see him in two years as higher rated prospect than anyone they could get now.
Time will tell if they’re right or not.
Woods-Richardson is an 18 year old A ball lottery ticket. He could really turn into something, but he could also be a bust. The Jays could have made a trade for him with a far lesser player than Stroman. A decent prospect in AA or AAA who looked more like a lock to make the majors and contribute this year or next would have gotten the deal done. Regardless of if they should be or not, the Mets are in a win-now mode.
His K:BB ratio stuck out for me. 97:17. Yes…it’s Sally/Single-A, but evidently more than one scout have drooled over his projection bc he has demonstrated very good control, which can raise a prospects floor. Add in TOR loved the kid going into the 2018 draft….their decision makes a lot of sense.
If they ask for Minnesota’s shortstop who was one of their best prospects, that wouldn’t make sense either cause they just brought up Bo Bichette.
Another triumph for the dynamic duo from Cleveland.
Dynamic duo from Cleveland??? Thad Levine came to the Twins via Rangers and Rockies…
I think he means Mark Shapiro.
Well now How Do You Folks Feel About the Moves the San Francisco Giants Accomplished? Do You Feel that they Improved Themselves To Get To The Playoffs? What Will Their Future Be Like? Time will Tell!!!!!
I can’t believe what they got for Dyson. He was left for dead a couple years ago.
The Jays FO seems unable to see that player valuations and acquisition costs are fluid. They jumped the gun signing Morales after EE rebuffed them instead of having the flexibility to see the market changed. With Stroman, they again seemed to assume a static market. They employ a lot of risk management speak when making decisions – they need to have a better grasp of dynamic risk.
I’m watching the Jays game tonight and Buck and Pat , our broadcasters, are in full on, PR justification mode.
Lmao @ the twins they did not improve that rotation, wheeler from the mets is poised to have a great second half just like last year.
If I’m the twins I wouldve given up at least 2 decent prospects for wheeler, as a rental the price wasnt too steep. Well another 1st round k.o courtesy of the Yankees. Am actually pulling for the Indians and hoping the twins fall flat on their face I believe the Indians will give the yanks a run for their money.
But the Mets didn’t actually trade Wheeler, dod they? Don’t be a moron
What Yankee starter(s) are going to shut down the Twins record-breaking lineup? The Yankees can put up runs, but they don’t have the pitching to hang with the elite playoff teams like HOU and LAD.
I get the Blue Jays interest in Kiriloff, but Lewis makes no sense when they already have Bichette at SS. I would’ve been asking for Kiriloff & a pitching prospect initially. The fact that Blue Jays didn’t circle back to the Twins is another indictment on how Atkins & company do things. The Twins farm system is far superior to the Mets. They could’ve gotten a better deal for sure
Agreed, also, the Twins , at least in theory, should of been more desperate to bolster their team which has an amazing offence, GO FOR IT!! Lol They would of had Stroman for next year and had a year and a half to work out an extension if both sides were happy. But still, 2 years to go for it. Gotta make hay when the sun is shining.
Enjoy the World Series from the comfort of your home Twins fans watching some other team celebrate.
What a smoke screen by Thad. Just goes to show that front office doesn’t know how their job is done. This year the Twins dynamic duo has just been lucky with the season they have. Should have went for a big trade, they will pay for it when the best pitcher comes down to Gibby starting a crucial playoff game.
The Twins to win the division need an as they dont make a big trade will see the big winners of trade deadlines are the indians