Between a down year in 2018 and then Tommy John surgery in March 2019, Michael Fulmer has fallen off the radar for many fans outside of the Motor City. Yet it wasn’t long ago that Fulmer was one the most sought-after trade chips in baseball, hotly pursued by multiple teams in the aftermath of a Rookie Of The Year season in 2016, and a strong sophomore year that saw him post a 3.83 ERA, 2.85 K/BB rate, and 6.2 K/9 over 164 2/3 innings in 2017, though Fulmer’s year was cut short by elbow surgery.
It was during that 2017 season that the Tigers finally went into full rebuild mode, trading Justin Verlander, Justin Upton, J.D. Martinez, and others before the trading period finally halted at the end of August. Fulmer received plenty of attention from trade suitors, though he wasn’t as obvious of a moveable asset given that he still had so many years of team control remaining.
Nonetheless, the Tigers received some sizeable offers for his services, and according to Anthony Fenech of the Detroit Free Press, these offers included two blockbusters for future All-Stars. The Tigers reportedly declined a three-player package from the Cubs that would have seen Javier Baez head to Detroit in exchange for Fulmer, while the Astros were willing to give up Alex Bregman for both Fulmer and left-hander Justin Wilson.
It makes for an eye-popping case of hindsight for the Tigers and their fans, considering how the three principal figures of those offers have since performed. Baez and Bregman are simply two of the game’s best players, each collecting All-Star appearances in both 2018 and 2019, while Baez finished second in NL MVP voting last season while Bregman racked up a fifth-place finish in the 2018 AL MVP race and also played a big role in the Astros’ 2017 World Series title.
Fulmer, by contrast, hasn’t matched his early potential due to injuries and perhaps simply some statistical regression. Whether he can regain his former front-of-the-rotation status is a question that can’t be answered until at least a few months into the 2020 season (or perhaps until 2021, if Fulmer is one of many pitchers who under-performs in their first several starts back from TJ surgery).
There were some rumors about a Cubs/Tigers trade involving Fulmer back in 2017, prior to Chicago’s acquisition of Jose Quintana from the White Sox, though Detroit reportedly wanted both Baez and Ian Happ as part of a Fulmer trade package. Bregman and Fulmer were never linked in any trade talks, and one wonders if the Astros only floated the idea fairly early in the year, since Bregman was installed as the team’s everyday third baseman from Opening Day onward. Needless to say, Bregman was no longer on the table by the time Houston and Detroit collaborated on their actual 2017 blockbuster, the championship-deciding deal that sent Verlander to the Astros on August 31.
In fairness to the Tigers, every front office has countless examples of instances where they missed out on a trade or a signing that would have been a steal. Likewise, from the Cubs’ and Astros’ perspective, every team can cite numerous cases where they lucked out in not making a transaction. But the Fulmer situation looms large, Fenech notes, given how Detroit has been unable to maximize the return on several of their top trade assets during their rebuild.
Several scouts from around the league weren’t very impressed by the four total prospects Detroit received from the Cubs and Braves in trade deadline swaps of Nicolas Castellanos and Shane Greene. The Tigers also weren’t able to trade Matt Boyd, perhaps their most valuable trade chip, at all. While “multiple executives indicated Boyd’s trade value will never be as high as it was at 3:59 p.m. on Wednesday” prior to the trade deadline, it seems that Detroit’s asking price on Boyd was simply too exorbitant. One National League exec told Fenech that the Tigers’ demands were “borderline comical,” and an AL executive describing Detroit’s front office as “impossible to deal with.”
The Tigers also asked for a lot in their attempts to trade Greene. For instance, Detroit asked the Nationals for top infield prospect Carter Kieboom, and Fenech also reports that the Nationals turned down an offer for Luis Garcia, another prized young infielder.
Wrong Luis Garcia
that’s tough
That’s gotta hurt like hell to look back on
Al Avila should never have been extended
Al Avila should have never been hired. The guy is a joke.
He gave himself an extension
Baez or Bregman wouldn’t save the Tigers and their teams would have looked foolish
I agree, they probably would have been on the table at this trade deadline.
Avila is in over his head. Simple as that.
I feel for all the Tigers fans who are sick after reading this. Al Avila should be fired
He traded his own son.
That’s gotta suck…..
Tigers fan here, wanted him gone in 2017, no one listened, here we are.
As bad as it sounds now at the time it wasn’t an unpopular decision to keep Fulmer(no one saw the TJ coming) Bregman was struggling on the major league level and Baez wasn’t established as a star yet and Fulmer had already won rookie of the year and had been an all star. Obviously now it looks horrible and Avila is one of the worst GMs in the majors but he shouldn’t be killed about this as much as he will be
People will certainly overlook this. At the time, Fulmer was looking to be on a great career trajectory, whereas Bregman was struggling to establish himself, and Baez had HUGE question marks about his offense.
It looks bad in hindsight, but the process wasn’t flawed.
If you’re just looking at stats, then sure. The ‘process’ looks fine. But when you realize that people are paid to project prospects, then you start to think the Tigers might want to pay new people to project prospects…
Sure people are paid to project prospects, and Baez and Bregman were both top prospects, however they had been in the majors for a few years at that point and had hardly performed. There have been countless top prospects excel in the minors yet fail once they got to the big leagues, hard to blame the tigers for worrying about that idea
Bregman was a rookie in 2016 with only 49 games learning a new position. He had not been in the league for a few years and he performed as well as anyone could hope for a rookie down the stretch.
Fulmer with the Astros probably doesn’t have TJ and is the best pitcher in the league. At the time had Al traded Fulmer and he went on to help his team win the World Series he gets roasted either way.
People are too stupid and are just results oriented. The kind of people that would say oh I shoulda folded aces pre flop in poker, the dumbest of gamblers. The process and projections could all be in your favour but the human could have a injury or tragic life event that drastically changes his projection.
Trading mike Trout right now for a single A player who is struggling would be stupid, even if Trout breaks his leg and never ever plays tomorrow and that single A player becomes the next Trout. But some simpletons would look back and say what a great trade.
It’s not as if Astros pitchers are immune to TJ. Lance McCullers, Frances Martes, Corbin Martin etc. SO that point makes no sense what so ever.
The bigger point is that :Luhnow wouldn’t give up Bregs for Chris Sale, what in God’s green earth makes anyone think he would have traded him for Michael Fulmer?
Absolutely don’t believe this at all
Fulmer always had questions with delivery/health
Granted Fulmer always was a “injury risk” but most of his previous injuries were all leg/knee injuries so to relate that to a TJ surgery is just off
Fulmer was constantly hurt when he was in the minors. That was part of the reason the Mets let him go. So , yes all of his injuries were predictable.
Not only was he an injury risk, his peripherals were not that of an ace. Braves offered at least Riley and more those 2 years also, and I wanted no part in him. There were tons of reasons for the rebuilding Tigers to trade him. This isnt just a hindsight is 20/20 situation. It was a failure on Avilas part, assuming he would be even more valuable after another half season of production, that never came and they ignored all the warning signs for a pointless extra half season of production.
Sure, except when you actually look at the numbers and realize Bregman “struggled” to a .791 OPS and 116 OPS+ as a 22 year old in 2016. He also demolished AA and AAA pitching before being called up.
Not wanting Baez is more understandable, but he did still manage 3.2 bWAR as a 23 year old with below average offense in 2016, so his floor was still very high, even if you never thought he’d reach his ceiling.
All of this looks even worse when you look at Fulmer’s so-so peripherals at the time.
With all that being said, I also find it kind of funny that the talent evaluators in Chicago were willing to give up Baez but a deal couldn’t get done because they wouldn’t give up Happ as well.
@priggs89 I’m sure if the tigers were asking for one of the other instead of both, the Cubs would have been fine with moving Happ
Bregman wasn’t struggling in 2017. He had a .799 at the trade deadline, and had finished July with a 1.021 OPS. Not bad for a guy that could play SS.
But yeah, trying to judge someone for not anticipating an injury, is a little silly,
Hindsight is 20/20. Although had they landed Baez he probably would have been traded by now and who knows how successful Bregman would be in Detroit.
Bregman is a great hitter. He would be an all-star talent no matter where he played.
Bregman demolished AA and AAA pitching before putting up a 116 OPS+ in 49 games as a 22 year old. He was already a really good hitter…
To Priggs’ point, Bregman got off to an awful start and still managed to turn things around. Started something like 1 for 32.
You could find dozens of similar stories for every team in the league. Show me a GM without regrets and I’ll show you a GM not doing his job.
A’s Beane: Donaldson to Blue Jays for eventually nothing; Car Go to Rockies for Matt Holliday and then Holliday to Cardinals for nothing
Avila is such a joke. The fact Keiboom was the ask for Shane Greene tells us how delusional he is. Fulmer had good value but Baez or Bregman easily satisfies it and anything more is comical. Boyd finally makes the jump from 5 starter to #3 and he tried to pass him off as prime Cole Hamels. He has 0 competency at rebuilding a team
It’s actually not comical. Rookie of the year, at a more important position, for unproven prospects – albeit top prospects, but still. 1 for 1 wouldn’t make sense.
You might not want to pick the position battle with a SS. Baez was a young and a key contributor to a WS winner. Bregman was MLB ready and already up. They weren’t prospects. He should have been dancing that he got those offers, espically Bregmans
A rookie of the year in the middle of his award winning season is an unproven prospect? Seriously? When you have to stretch the truth that far to defend Avila, that says it all
Referring to Bregman and Baez as unproven..
I doubt the Astros actually made that offer for Fulmer. Astros declined to include Bregman in a trade for Chris Sale… and all I’ve ever heard was that Bregman was not available in trades, when many many Astros fans wanted to deal Bregman for a SP of Sale’s caliber.
To me Bergman is like machado. Both with incredible range due to their status as short stops. They also got power and can hit. I’d hang onto him for the long term.
Plus, the Astros are sneaky sneaky with good scouts. I mean look at the pitching they’ve snagged up in the last 3 years.
Verlander, Cole, and Grienke. That’s straight up 3 aces. If they win it all this year and give Cole a qo and he takes it. That can be back to back potential.
Uh, Cole is not going to take a QO. He’ll get $150 million even with the draft picks attached providing he’s healthy.
More like $220M
One could argue their scouts aren’t doing their job, so they had to go out and get those arms…
It would be a poor argument
That would be a stretch… insinuating the Astros don’t have a good scouting department.
Or their scouts are doing a good job by picking up on guys who end up being worthy (at least currently, who knows what they’ll end up being ultimately) of trading for a guy like Verlander, Cole or Greinke (or in the Astros’ case, all three)..
Why don’t we start from the top… ‘Top Pitching Prospect’ Forrest Whitley.
How’s that working out for the Stros? Bewteen this year’s ERA and the drug abuse that was conveniently hushed hushed last year.
Face it, he’s a bust.
Look at their position players. Altuve, Bregman, Correa, Springer all homegrown and Álvarez was acquired for almost nothing. I think they have a very good scouting department
The St Louis Cardinals agree
Is it a good scouting department or is it finishing in the bottom 10 in the league for so many years in a row and all those guys were either high draft picks or big time international signings
He took Adrenal and his suspension of 50 games, wouldn’t say that’s a conspiracy level coverup. This year he went on IL, dropped down to A ball, knocked off some rust, and is about to throw in AA. Pretty sure that shouldn’t be filed into a bust category. Hard to consider him washed up at the age of 22.
LOL dude just stop.
Lol he took an over the counter caffeine pill on a over night road trip. Calling it drug abuse is absolutely not only misguided but also wildly uninformed.
don’t need sneaky scouts to see those pitchers play
LMAO
Don’t buy the Bregman report. I don’t know the original author or his sources, but that seems very click-baity. Houston won’t part with Tucker now for anything (allegedly) and it seems they were even higher on Bregman then. Just can’t see that being true as reported, based on all we’ve seen from Houston’s front office.
bahaha lmao
That’s insane
To think that the padres almost had Baez for Ross too. If I remember correctly preller balked at the last second.
It definitely seems like Baez was offered around a ton a few years ago; he struggled a ton at the very beginning of his career and it looked like he’d strike out way too much to be a capable player, so maybe they thought they could sell high before that happened. Obviously they kept him and it’s working out pretty well.
I remember a few years ago when the Indians were offered Baez for Carlos Carrasco, and I think they were offered Pompey from the Blue Jays for Carrasco too. It’s always fun to look back at that stuff years later.
MLBTR should create a running thread/list of trades that failed to transpire. List past ones and all future ones so we can always reflect on what might’ve been…
There was a time Baez was almost traded for Teheran too. It was rumored Teheran for Baez or Soler, when they were valued equally as prospects about to hit the majors or new to the majors cant remember. Decided to hold off until AS break and re-evaluate. Then both Teheran and Baez stock started going opposite directions. Cubs clearly shopped the crap out of Baez.
It seemed like a lot of people didn’t want Baez either lol. That’s why we’re not scouts.
That’s not true at all it was gonna be Tyson Ross for Prospects. Baez was never part of that deal.
What an epic fail by Detroit
I wouldn’t be at all surprised if the Tigers has asked for Bregman. I’d be very surprised if the Astros offered him. He was deemed more untouchable then than Tucker is now. I guess it’s possible considering Fulmer’s multiple years of control, but I’m having a hard time buying it.
I really doubt the Astros offered Bregman in this situation. They wouldn’t even add him in a deal for Sale (who’s on a team friendly contract) so why would they for Fulmer?
This is a reporter who doesn’t like Avila..Bregman was a key component in 2017 for the Astros winning the World Series…Baez came into his own that year as a guy to build around…Fulmer was average at best in ‘17…granted everyone needs pitching but I highly doubt those two guys who were high end prospects were offered to them…maybe they asked much like this season where basically nothing happened but I highly doubt that either deal was proposed by the Astros or cubs
The Baez one I believe he was drafted before Epstein got hired, and you know how decision makers love to get rid of players that were drafted before they got there
It was one thing jom hendry did right in his entire career. Otherwise one of if not the worst GM of all time. Andy McFail was pretty bad as the Cubs president as well though.
The best trades are often the ones you don’t make.
Unless you’re the Tigers, apparently.
“Borderline Comical”…..that’s a huge understatement considering what the Tigers wanted for Boyd….team control is only part of a players worth….yes he is controlled for 3 plus years but which Boyd is the receiving team getting? I would rather have a track record of success type pitcher with 1.5 years of control over a 28 year old #3 or #4 starter just now blooming with 3 plus years left of control if I am in win now mode….
That said….the Tigers should have dropped their asking price and took 1-2 top 100 prospects closer to the 100 than the 1….then took the best deal offered to them before this turns into another Fulmer disaster….
Shane Greene reminds me of watching Bob Wickman close so far, pitch it around the zone and pray they hit it to someone.
I have to wonder if this story was maybe the other way around for both these guys…as highly as the both were thought of and the fact neither was moved I would think teams were asking for them in trades rather then them both being shopped so openly..not to say they didn’t listen but probably wanted a large return in any deal including either and were rejected,Baez de in the playoffs and w.s Saved them more then once
Is this true or does Fenech have a problem with Avila and decided to come up with this rumor to make him look bad? It is a legitimate question as certain writers are known to protect GMs they like, and vice versa. Not trying to discredit Fenech. The timing is a bit curious since we’re a few days out from the deadline, the Tigers didn’t deal Boyd due to high demands and suddenly a blunder is revealed? Did Fenech stumble upon this information moments after the deadline?
“Not trying to discredit Fenech”
Literally everything else you said makes me feel otherwise…
Priggs had to ask the question. I do not know. Some writers have done this in the past, especially in Toronto. I did not consider how anyone would feel about me asking a legitimate question about this and the timing of it.
I don’t think he stumbled upon this info days after the deadline……. Fenech is one of the most reputable writers for the tigers and I think he was holding out hope the tigers would move Boyd knowing what had happened with Fulmer a few years ago and when they didn’t move Boyd he saw the same blunder happening again and wanted the fans to know the truth
So, the beat reporter is now the self appointed proxy GM?
And, when the real GM doesn’t perform to his liking then and ONLY THEN does he do his actual job as beat reporter and report information on the team?
Seems unlikely.
More likely is that an assistant GM or sabre type in the org talked. If not, the OP might be on to something.
I don’t think he stumbled upon this info days after the deadline……
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Have these rumors been circulating for a long time?
The alleged non-trade happened almost two years ago. If the writer is just re-hashing old rumors, then I am fine with it.
OTOH, if the writer is suddenly just remembering something that happened two years ago, then I would be extremely suspicious.
Exactly. JoeBrady is right.
No way Bregman was offered
I will believe that if the Astros GM came out & said it
Otherwise this is a neat reporting saying this
How much info could he really have
Sounds like somebody leaking this false info to get the Tigers GM to have to answer some uncomfortable questions
And we are just hearing about this now? No one broke these rumors then, and only Fenech does now? Forgive for having a big case of the “yea right”.
Is it possible that either Baez or Bregman were offered? Possible, but if either were offered straight up for Fulmer at the time, then Avila should have said no. And if there was some additional pieces then Avila should have said no if those pieces were of poor quality.
Make no mistake this article was written to feed the disgruntled TIgers fan. Rebuilds are tough, and this season has been particularly brutal. It throws gasoline on the fire of hatred of Avila in a portion of the fan base.
The article clearly states that Baez was offered as part of a three player package. It was not a 1 for 1 deal with him.
And we are just hearing about this now? No one broke these rumors then
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I posted almost the same thing about a minute ago, before I read this.
If the writer knew about this two years ago, and only decided to write about it today, then it is fair to question the writer’s integrity. I’m guessing that about half the off-season rumors are simply whatever the writers pretending to be GMs have to offer. And maybe 30%+ is disinformation by the FO that the writers print in exchange for being tapped when there really is something happening.
But that’s all just fun and games. This is a little more seriously when the writer is impugning a GM’s reputation.
The most likely possibility would be that someone in the Tigers FO wanted to sell high on Boyd, and was pissed that Avila didn’t. So, he or she leaked this in an attempt to say “Look! He’s doing it again!”
No one wants lopsided trades like that. You get an all star for a guy that is injured all the time. That’s not why you make trades. You want both sides to be happy.
Trades have to be judged on the information available at the time.
Context is the enemy of the “hot take” but…
Anyone else think that with all the young starting pitchers in the tigers system that they should consider bringing back Fulmer has a closer next year? He has a violent delivery and that could be one way to use him and keep him healthy
And back in the day the Miami Dolphins offered 4 first round picks for Barry Sanders the year before he abruptly retired. Guess we should have seen that coming…. bottom line is it is easy to sit on the couch in your moms basement and judge what you think these gm’s should do or how they screwed up. Last I checked the tigers farm system is in the top 10. During the win it all days of DD we were dead last so we are trending in the right direction. The Tigers will continue to struggle for the next few years until they start winning some games and a few of these prospects pan out. Maybe if you all want to judge people on hindsight you should have invested in google or apple back in the day. You all blew it….
And mike Ditka trade 6 picks for ricky Williams. Who had a couple decent years. It was an awful trade overall. Barry Sanders would have rejected that trade or retired if he was traded.
Pitchers are usually a riskier investment than position players.
I think Dave Dombrowski is the greatest trader in MLB history. However, The first trade he was mostly responsible for was when he acquired Mark Langston for Randy Johnson and Brian Holman. One of the most one sided trades all-time.
I still remember all the retrospective banter for the Tigers not trading Mark Fydrich to the BoSox when they had the chance.
101: Incompetent Owner Interference (101). Past and present. The Tigers blew up the team every year from 1996-1999.
I’ve been an Al Avila supporter until now. First and foremost, his scouts are horrendous. The free agents and trades are generally waiver wire trash (Two Logans for Mike Fiers).
The philosophy of acquiring broken down and buy-low free agents with the sole intention of trading them away for prospects is counter productive. It creates a MLB development organization. The team assumes all the risk in hope for a comeback; if successful, the team assumes yet even more risk with the trade return. Meanwhile, exposure and development time is squandered for the rest of the team,
There was a rapid change after 2002: Carlos Guillen and Placido Polanco were under-used players when they were acquired. Magglio Ordonez, Ivan Rodriguez and Kenny Rogers were never just trade bait.
And in 2009 we could have drafted Mike Trout instead of Jacob Turner. We also once traded some mid tier prospect named John Smoltz for Doyle Alexander…..
Doyle Alexander won them their division.
21 other teams besides the Tigers are kicking themselves as well, they could have had Trout too. The Halos had #24 and #25 that year and even then selected Grichuk before Trout. Six of the players selected ahead of Trout in 2009 have yet to play a single inning in MLB.
The whole ‘21 teams passed on Trout’ thing is kind of a massive over simplification. It’s not that nobody thought he’d be pretty good, it’s that he came with big ‘signability’ questions as well. This was the era before slot bonuses, and he was rumored to be asking for a massive signing bonus, which is the main reason he fell so far
The Angels, having an extra first rounder, were the team willing to take the risk of him not signing.
Man that’s tough. Being a White Sox Fan, (Fernando Tatis Jr for James Shields), I can relate for sure. After 46 years your fan base must be done with the front office.(Try 88 years!) “Being impossible to deal with” is definitely not something you want to hear. From what I have read I guess I should feel fortunate. I guess it can always be worse. Obviously I “HATE” the Tigers but I have mad respect for the Detroit fan base. Have always found them to be great fans. I do not look forward to having to face Mize and Manning 8 times a year for the next 10 years. I have also heard that Riley Greene is the real deal and a potential stud. Good luck Tiger Town (great movie:)
Detroit really screwed up by setting a ludicrous price. A 3.71 FIP from 16-17 doesn’t scream “Ace” and 6.8 K/9 doesn’t suggest that he’d get there either. Whether the offers are true or not, there was enough interest, so I’m sure there were more than suitable offers out there for solid (but not spectacular) cost-controlled starter.
The Braves had their own Fulmer in Shelby Miller. Young, great pedigree, controlled, went from ok years to All-Star caliber pretty suddenly and since they were in full rebuild, sold him off to the highest bidder acquiring Swanson and Inciarte. It’s just what bad teams need to do in baseball, not get all starry eyes about maybe being back in contention during the last year or so of control and imagining that player as the vet leader of the fine AA prospects who will be up in 2 years.
If the Tigers are counting on 2021 Boyd they are doing something wrong because they could instead be looking at 2021-2028 controlled generic top prospect in AA now that they would have gotten in return
I actually have more of an issue with Boyd not traded than Fulmer. Fulmer was younger, drafted higher, and was a rated prospect, with most of service time still available.
Boyd is having an excellent year, but before this year, he had a career ERA of 5.07, was not a high draft pick, nor was he rated. In short, there is evidence to suggest that this year is an outlier.
And, even if you thought this was the true Boyd, there is only 3 years of control left. and they are easily the worst team in baseball. All they are doing by holding onto him, is burning service time, and assuming the injury and performance risks.
It reminds me of when Preller had a vintage Cashner and Tyson Ross. They likely would’ve gotten two top-100 prospects for Ross, and one top-100 for Cahner. He held tight and received nothing for Ross.
I find it kind of hard to believe that the Cubs would have offered up Javy with Gleybar already traded and Russell’s offensive struggles becoming apparent, especially when we had already seen signs of what Javy is capable of.
Tigers had some underwater contracts in cabrera, zimmerman and upton so hard to keep trying to compete even with bregman and baez. IF fulmer recovers well from tjs then fulmer, boyd, mize, manning, turnbull looks pretty good in 2021
So you think one of those youngsters is gonna’ beat out Zimmerman for a starting spot?
I’m pretty sure he forgot about sure-fire HOFer Jordan Zimmermann. Unforgivable.
But it’s not true. This never happened. MLBTR themselves reported that the Cubs refused to include Baez in a trade for Fulmer. And Bregman wasn’t offered either, Houston barely wanted to give up Franklin Perez to get JV.
This does not shock me in the least. You can almost guarantee that this is true, and that is why they are now “impossible to deal with” now b/c they have missed so many times on trades that they ask for the entire farm and then some on any of their players now! Detroit’s front office is fine. People like David Chadd and the new scouts they hired are great! That’s why you see good prospects like Casey Mize and Riley Greene as Tigers now. But the head man is awful and the sad part is he will for sure be here now for some time with this new extension and you can bet that this rebuild will take 2-4 years longer than it should with him Al Avila controlling the strings! Sad Sad Sad!
Anyone defending Al Avila for not making these trades due to Bregmann struggling at the MLB level and the “huge” question marks on what Baez would be offensively are just being kind. The way Bregmann was tearing the cover off of the ball, every single publication I read was that it was just a matter of time before he was a legitimate star. Avila simply does not know how to be a GM, and the scary part is that with him getting a reputation for being hard to deal with now will make it even more difficult to culminate any trades for the few chips we will have this upcoming winter (Boyd, Farmer, Jimenez, etc). Last year at the winter meetings there was a writer that was on MLB Network that said not many GM’s like to work with AA and this seems to vindicate that as well. This rebuild will end up taking way longer than the 3-5 years Avila promised. Long ride a coming!
I’m trying to figure out all the objections to the non-trade, except for the injury.
Both players had 5 years of control left.
One had a WAR of 5.3 in about 3/4 of his rookie year.
The other had a WAR of 1.8 in about 1/3 of his rookie year.
Both were drafted in the first round, though Bregman was drafted higher at #1-2.
Fulmer was an AS and ROY.
As of 7/25/17, Fulmer’s career ERA was 3.19.
I’ve had Bregman on my roto team for a few seasons, so it isn’t like I don’t like the guy.
But 98% of this looks like 20/20 hindsight. There is no reason to think that Fulmer was not a star in the making. And there was no situation like when you trade a current star for future prospects, since both had 5 years of control left.
Big, if true.
Seriously if I was a D fan I’d be very upset.
Lloyd McClendon would’ve (& still will) ruin any good bat that arrived in Motown.
People like David Chadd and the new scouts they hired are great! That’s why you see good prospects like Casey Mize and Riley Greene as Tigers now.
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That’s why I would’ve made a great scout. Mize was the consensus #1 pick in the county. If I were the Tiger’s scout, I’d have advised them, ‘after careful study, and incredible intellect and insight, I recommend we take the best player in the country.’
This reminds me of when the NY newspapers called Minaya a genius. Why? Because he signed two really expensive free agents. And he was a genius because he simply signed the check?
I dont buy that for one second. Why would the cubs ever trade Baez for a pitcher who had one good year. Whether or not It really happened. The tigers messed up. I’m glad as a Cubs fan they did. Now the Cubs can extend Baez for 10 year and 230mil. Give bryzzo the same deal.
Agreed and someone said earlier it’s been reported and said directly from Theo many times that Baez was basically untouchable even back then,didn’t stop teams from asking which I bet was the case with a fulmer trade
The Late Al Avila.
This article is speculation BS from start to finish. How does this writer get onto this site?
Anyone not believing these talks are either Tigers fans, cubs fans or Astros fans. This just shows how stupid tigers management can be. It happened to them once before but yet they took the same approach this deadline with Boyd. Talk like this does not just come out of thin air where there is smoke there is fire.
Looks to me they regret not taking that bregman or baez offer. But that was what they were offered for fulmer. So this time they were asking for same kind of return they were offered for Fulmer. I don’t see anything wrong with that. Looks like NL exec was mad cus he wanted boyd lol. Tigers did right thing. Keep boyd if you can’t get a baez or bregman type for him which was what they were asking for and the same offer they got for fulmer..
Dodgers made a huge msitake. Friedman will lose his job over it. This is their last year to go for world series and he didn’t go all in. fool.
Looks to me they regret not taking that bregman or baez offer.
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I wouldn’t have taken the Baez trade either, at the time. Up until 2017, Baez had a career .680 OPS. Even in 2017, when he started hitting, he still had an awful Even in 2017, when he finally started hitting, he still had only a .796 OPS, with an awful 144/30 K/W. I happily drafted drafted Bregman in 2018, expecting some good additional development, But Baez’ K/W was simply too bad to depend on.
And Fulmer had one more year of control.
It’s also worth noting that Baez wasn’t even the Cubs’ starting 2B; that was Zobrist.
I once again question the idea that turning down Baez for Fulmer was a no-brainer.
This article by Fenech in the Freep is nothing more than click bait and meant to feed disgruntled Tiger fans who are unhappy at the pace of the rebuild and the current season. Unless Epstein or Ludlow come out and confirm this, I don’t believe it. Why is this now just coming out, more than 2 years later? Why did we never hear about this at the time?
But lets just say, for arguments sake, that at least part of this is true. Bregman was elevated to the #1 prospect by MLB Pipeline mid season in 2016. So at the end of 2016 we have the Astros offering the #1 prospect in the MLB for the 2016 ROY plus solid LHR (at the time). Unless the Astros were offering up something in addition, that is an offer most GM’s would reject. The Cubs were offering Baez, a young promising player but one who had not shown the kind of skills he is currently showing. Maybe that is a swap someone makes, but what else were the Cubs offering? If nothing, then not sure most GM’s make that swap at the time. Tigers were going to make one more run with the team they had, and Fulmer was considered a necessary piece, and they had a SS in Iglesias. Wasn’t a trade that would have addressed a need they had at the time.
And that is just the thing, Fenech is trying to fuel fire by the fan base by looking at these deals in retrospect. It is disingenuous at best and downright dishonest at worst. It is OK to have doubts regarding whether Avila is the right man for the job, not so sure he is myself. But if we are going to question Avila’s fitness, it should be done in an honest and forthright manner. This article was neither.
Thank you Tiger, that was a righteous hammering of Mr,. Fenech.
I’ve been saying the same thing. If the RS, God forbid, ever developed someone that had a 5.4 WAR in 24 starts, was ROY, #10 in C.Y. voting, and an AS, there is absolutely -0- chance I’d trade for Baez. Absolutely -0-.
Bregman I can understand. He was a real good hitter, and looked like he could play SS. A bit like Bogaerts, imho. But Fulmer was better than contemporaries like DeGrom, Syndergaard and Severino. Trading Fulmer+ for Bregman I would argue either way.
But way too many people are looking at Fulmer post-injury. At the time, he was extremely valuable.
Agreed except Baez had proved himself prior to this he was the co mvp in the w.s
1-I’m assuming that this was at the trade deadline in 2017. If this was in the of-season, that changes the discussion since he was already shut down in August.
2-Are you sure Baez was co-MVP in the WS? He hit .167 with one RBI. And, even if he was co-MVP, he had a 13/0 K/W in the WS. That would’ve made me more leery.
I call BS. Baez and Bregman were already proven Major league talent and after the Shelby Miller trade I doubt smart front offices like Houston would have been stupid enough to offer those packages especially for average talent like Fulmer.
for average talent like Fulmer.
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1st round pick
#80 prospect ranking
5.4 bWAR in his rookie year, in only 26 GS
ROY
#10 in Cy Young voting
All-star in 2nd year
Okay, your turn. Explain why you think he was ‘average’.