As you’d expect, it appears the deep-pocketed, starter-needy Phillies will be among the teams in pursuit of Astros superstar right-hander Gerrit Cole when free agency begins. Phillies brass is set to map out offseason scenarios in which the team does and does not reel in Cole, Matt Gelb of The Athletic reports (subscription required).
If the Phillies do get Cole, this may go down as the second straight offseason in which they secured the game’s most expensive free agent. The club signed outfielder Bryce Harper for 13 years and $330MM last offseason. Both the term and money Harper received are all-time records for a free agent. While Cole won’t do that well this winter, the 29-year-old at least seems like a strong bet to surpass David Price for the richest contract a pitcher has ever landed. Boston inked Price to a seven-year, $217MM pact entering 2016.
Signing Cole would surely mean another significant payroll hike for the Phillies, who saw their opening-day outlay climb from $95MM-plus in 2018 to upward of $140.6MM this season. But the Phillies did put $170MM-plus rosters on the field earlier this decade (albeit before owner John Middleton took control in 2015), and as Gelb notes, throwing cash at their rotation may be their best hope of improving it to a noticeable extent. Philadelphia isn’t willing to trade any of its top prospects to upgrade its iffy rotation, per Gelb, which seems to make it all the more likely the club will sign at least one of free agency’s best starters.
Cole’s in a league of his own as far as the upcoming free-agent class is concerned, but Nationals righty and playoff hero Stephen Strasburg may be a Phillies target in his own right if he opts out of the remaining four years and $100MM left on his contract. Either Cole or Strasburg would give the Phillies a much-needed front-of-the-rotation presence to join Aaron Nola.
After Cole and Strasburg, the rest of the game’s soon-to-be free-agent starters don’t look nearly as promising, though Zack Wheeler, Madison Bumgarner, Hyun-Jin Ryu and Jake Odorizzi all seem likely to rake in guarantees worth $50MM or more. Philly could conceivably sign any of them if it doesn’t end up with Cole or Strasburg. However, as Gelb points out, a Cole pursuit might complicate matters for the team if his stay on the open market drags out. Cole’s represented by Scott Boras, whose high-profile clients (including Harper last year and Phillies righty Jake Arrieta two offseasons ago) have sometimes taken several months to ink contracts. Considering Cole’s in line for an enormous payday, a team such as Philly may be less likely to toss a substantial amount of cash to one of the aforementioned second-tier starters if it’s waiting for an answer from the Houston ace.
Whether the Phillies pick up Cole or someone else, it’s clear their rotation is in dire need of help. Nola was their only starter who offered above-average production in 2019, a season that went down as the club’s eighth in a row without a playoff berth. Now, with new manager Joe Girardi in the fold, the Phillies are feeling even greater urgency to turn around their fortunes.
“Now that our team is where it is and we’ve added through free agency and through players coming through our system, we’ve reached a place where it is time to win,” general manager Matt Klentak said this week. “No questions asked: It is time to win right now.”
It’s arguable nothing would help the Phillies “win right now” more than signing Cole. But they’re sure to face plenty of competition if they make a serious run at the potential AL Cy Young winner.
I have been tough on Gabe Kapler but he had nothing to work with in the rotation. While I was for getting rid of him, they have to focus on at least 2-3 starters now. I would love Cole, but maybe spending money on reliability for cheaper would be better suited. Get 2 reliable starters for the price of Cole? There have to be some 3 through 5 starters out there that would give the offense the chance to win games.
Strasburg would be insane to opt out though. Great season and great postseason. His track record scares me though after his good years.
Any relievers worth signing this year dude?
greatd – Relievers are so hard to keep up with. They need help all over. I am not saying the field is perfect, but if I were them, I would absolutely focus just on pitching and leave the field alone…
Aroldis Chapman
Did Strasburg scare you last night when he went 8 1/3 innings and carried the Nationals to game 7?
If Kapler had nothing to work with, why were you for getting rid of him?
Geez!
fox471 – “Geez”? See comment to thatdude07 for what I meant on Strasburg.
Now, I will give you props on asking about Kapler because I admit my comment was brief and probably irrelevant on him. I could not stand Kapler and his managing style. While he had nothing to work with, he made poor decisions as well. I believe some of his decisions cost games. My comment on Kapler was probably irrelevant to my point that the Phillies pitching is horrible.
Must agree on Kapler. His use of the bullpen directly led to MANY losses. Using 5 relievers every game is ridiculous. Each game you look at the box score and see two guys with 10 or fewer pitches thrown. I understand match ups in big spots. But sometimes you let a guy start the next inning or heck, finish the one he is in! Seemed like every single game he was counting on his 11th or 12th pitcher to try and get a win. He failed miserably in in that aspect and waited until the last day of the season to use an ‘opener’. He had 5 or 6 average starters (other than Nola) yet never once tried using two or them once through the lineup each in the same game. Maybe a different mindset with guys like Arrieta, Velasquez, Eflin, Irvin, Pivetta and Eichoff gets you 4 effective innings out of each? It’s working all around baseball where teams schedule multiple players to get to their two best relievers.
lol did the Phillies fan just use the line “reliable but cheap”? Thats funny because your team signed Harper to a stupid contract, with all the stupid money their GM bragged about. He is neither reliable nor cheap.
And your assessment on Steven Strasburg couldn’t be wrong. The guy who went 8 1/3 on the road in game 6 against Houston calls for you to be scared? Or how about the guy who went up against the Dodgers on the road and completely dominated in the NLDS? Or how about the guy who came in and shut down the Brewers in the wild card game, after another sub par outing from Max? One could argue that the only reason the Nats are even in the WS is because of the way Strasburg has dominated in the postseason.
But please, give us more of your expert analysis, Mr Phillies fan!
Reading comprehension has obviously died in our country.
So has common sense by all you Philly fans
This is what, Strasburgs 2nd or 3rd really healthy season in his career? He isnt getting younger and you only need to look at Scherzer to understand the risks of signing a long term deal to an older pitcher. Cole will get 5 to 7 years and rightfully so but hes the one warranting such a contract. Strasburg is a risk at more than 3 years with his track record.
hate to break this to u but scherzer’s deal with the nats has actually been one of the best long term deals given to a pitcher EVER
Excellent grammar, that. Mind if I call you that?
Brian, thank you… That was my point, You said it better. Strasburg had a great year. But it has always been followed by bad ones. I would say this is his third great year in 10.
Signing Strasburg to a long contract is akin to signing Wheeler. Guys like this need incentive laden deals or at the very least, multiple option years that pad the final amount. Wheeler will get a plethora of three year deals with option years but hold out to try and get 5 but settle for 4. He will go through what Kuechel endured – unless he is smart.
before we even begin to talk about the rest of ur post, let’s begin with the part where it was the phillies OWNER, and not gm, that made the “stupid money” comment last year. the harper signing is still a good signing, he’s a generational talent(like a-rod or miggy cabrera). 2nd, yes strasburg has an injury history and to ignore that is befuddling. yes he’s had a tremendous post season,which imo is the reason why he’s now almost a lock to opt out, but that doesnt take away all his past injuries. cole and stras will be the top pitchers on the market for sure but go and compare injury histories and tell me which has been more reliable
wait another 3 years and the Phils are going to be begging someone to take that horrendous contract. Just like the Yanks with Stanton! You are stuck with that for the next decade and then some.
News flash dude. We actually like him up here. Go crawl back in your hole.
then talk to me in 3 years lmao. i didnt know u have glasses that could see into the future. also love how u completely ignored the original points of ur argument that i counter argued and shut down. i get it, ur still mad that ur team lost its superstar but it happens, get over it.
Harpers been great. I’m loving the deal tbh
Philly fans all the same. They think they got this super team assembled and then they dont even make the postseason, then gotta make excuses on why they failed again. It is truly pathetic if you ask me. Bryce Harper is the most talked about player in MLB,who hasn’t accomplished much, except 1 MVP season. Its not a coincidence that as soon as he leaves the Nats, they are in the WS. Have fun finishing behind the Braves the next 10 years with your 330 million dollar toy in RF who has the knees of a 35 year old already.
The fact that YOUR new “superstar” couldnt even take you to a wild card game is pretty funny to be honest. But go ahead and keep making excuses. Blame Kapler, blame injuries, blame whatever you want. When the lights shine the brightest, Bryce freezes up lmao
One player doesn’t mean anything. Bryce was great last year. Just because we didn’t make the playoffs doesn’t mean he wasn’t worth the money. The angels didn’t make the playoffs and they have the best player in baseball. Does that mean trout wasn’t worth locking up? They should have let him walk next year?
I agree, the washington Harper is dead. He’s done everything right since signing…..All these %^#$@&s that hate on him don’t or won’t see that…
I’d say “great” is quite a stretch. He’s been OK.
Bryce Harper was not great. He was 11th in outfield WAR. That’s not the end-all-be-all, but it’s a useful stat.
He’s had a WAR above 5 twice in his career. The Phillies were close enough last year that if he was great, they might have made the playoffs.
it’s quite funny how you’ve now completely backed off your original argument and are now just trolling. stop being bitter that harper moved on and enjoy the fact that your team is about to be playing game 7 of the world series for the first time in their history!
if a WAR above 5 isnt great what is? i guess trout isnt the best player in the game then either based on that logic considering he couldnt carry the other 24 men on his shoulders to the playoffs right?
phanatic. You have two different thoughts there.
Two plus is a major league starter
Five plus is All-Star
Eight plus is an MVP candidate.
As far as any one player being able to carry his team to a title, it can’t be done. As far as a great player being able to carry a solid team into the playoffs, in one of the most obvious examples, the 1967 Red Sox.
.
5 plus is an all dtar?what does that say about the season harper just had? all star in a transition year for him. u had to got back to 1967 for ur example, that says all u need to know. also, u assumed the 2019 phillies were a “solid” team when their pitching was far from anything close to “solid”. every key member of the the bullpen spent considerable time on IL, and the starters were a mess behind nola
It says he’s a very good player. He was 11th in baseball in WAR for outfielders. He’s one of the better outfielders in baseball.
There are 60 starting outfielder positions. There are a bunch of great players on that list. He ranks very high.
I went back to 67 because one player can’t carry a team. If Bryce Harper was Mike Trout, then it was possible the Philles would have made the playoffs. But there is only one Mike Trout. That 67 season of Yaz might be the best non PED season since the end of WWII.
The Phillies did not miss out on the playoffs because of Bryce Harper.
Lol nats “fans” new to baseball are cute. Harper had a stellar year. Anyone who says he didnt is an idiot. He posted 35 HRs and 114 rbis. Any team would love to have that sort of production out of their right fielder. He also had a great year defensively.
Philly has some deficiencies that are expected to be addressed this offseason. Well be targeting Cole of course. And likely rendon. Among others. Pointing to harper as the reason the Phillies didnt make the playoffs just exposes you as the average, uninformed Nats bandwagon fan that’s desperately trying to wiggle into rivalry between *actual* sports markets. 🙂
There is not much I agree with on your post.
I’m not a Nats fan, Harper didn’t have a stellar year. HR and RBI are not really the best stats to look for when rating a player. He was solid defensively, hardly great.
And since this is directed at me, who is looking at Harper for the reason the Phills didn’t make the playoffs? However if he was stellar, it is certainly possible they would have.
As far as the Phillies will sign, I don’t know. As where Cole will sign.. I don’t know. I will say Cole prefers the West Coast. That doesn’t mean he will sign on the West Coast.
It uh, wasnt directed at you though.
And to dismiss HRs and RBIs is silly in my opinion. What wins games? Runs. What advanced stat exists that allows a team to win without factoring in a run? None. The move to analytics so heavily that it actually devalues things like RBIs and HRs is increasingly what is wrong with baseball.
Almost any team would take harper and his stats if they could. In fact, several tried. So let’s not pretend that harper is at best average.
Wait. How many starting OF positions are there? I agree with everything you said otherwise, but just strengthened your position…
Go Phils!
Wow you’re dumb. You must be a Nats fan. LOL!
thatdude07 – You completely missed every point.
I was saying what should be done. Not what they did or will do. If I said what they did, That would be a waste of my time to repeat that Middleton spent money. We know that.
If you actually knew anything about Strasburg, which you obviously do not because you went on about things I know and credit him for; after every good year he has had, he has a poor year health-wise. That is what scares me. I was actually complimenting him, but stating that his track record has not been good.
I am very sorry for your inadequacies.
Your absurd comment regarding Harper belies his reliability and true value this season. The guy diid it all and continued to pull fans to CBP. He and JT consistently won games and both made plays on a regular basis that portends whats to come in 2020.
Thanks for your “expert” point of view,
i disagree. i think this staff need an ACE. nola has been great but at this point he’s prime cole hamels, a very solid #2. i do think more than 1 SP is needed but i dont think signing 2 or 3 “#4 or 5 starters” is enough. im not saying empty ur pockets and sign cole by any means necessary bc that wont fix all the pitching problems but signing cole or stras and say odorizzi or wheeler along with another solid backend reliever will
phils phanatic – Thanks. I would love Cole and it is Middleton’s money, not mine. But with the Harper contract, which I respectfully disagree with my Phillie fan friends was not good long-term, I see signing an ace of Cole’s talent another contract that will haunt us. I think Cole and Harper may be worth it now, but will they in 2023-2025? Much like Howard’s later years, we need to be competitive as the Braves will be competitive for some time.
Would I love Cole? Yes. Do I love what it would take to get him? No. I think he will be a Yankee. That was why I said what I said, I see we agree on that though, but I do not know if we would have enough to do all that you said either.
I’ve been saying it, the Phillies are the favorites for Cole along with the Yankees. They have the money and the need. The Angels won’t pay more than Philly and they can’t offer a better team than the Yankees, who’ll offer just as much money. It’s silly to think where he’s from will matter, especially when he grew up a Yankees fan.
He wants to play in California
If all else is equal, just like Patrick Corbin wanted to pitch at “home” for the Yankees until the Nats came out with the best offer.
Just like with Clemens when he said it was all about the family, and then signed in Toronto instead of Texas, because TO offered him $25.5M/3 instead of the 24M/3 that TX offered him.
Or Hampton, who signed in Pitcher’s Hell instead of for the Mets, because it was all about the schools. Because everyone knows that the $50,000/year private schools in Manhattan aren’t any good.
“He wants to play in California” I’m so sick of people posting this without any proof Cole said this!
Exactly. “But… but… but… HE LIVES THERE!”
With the contract he’ll sign this offseason, he can buy a home in every state if he wants to.
they claim that article of second-hand accounts from his teammates is proof.
Did he tell you that when you were cleaning the leaves out of his gutters?
He will play in California when the Yankees visit Anaheim.
Saying it over and over won’t make it come true.
@thetruth sike! Phillies are so far behind braves and nationals that gerrit cole wont make a difference. The team that stands out from the rest is the dodgers, badly need pitching help with ryu and hill gone and kershaw well being over the hill they need a new ace. Dodgers are much better than yankees and phillies and have the wallet to spend on him. The second team that will be right there is the angels, you can be in denial but he has a already stated a desire to play in front of his mom at home. They have close to 65 million in cap and will most likely make him the highest paid pitcher in majors.
San Diego Padres perhaps?
Well from what the beat writer of the pads said is that pitching isn’t the top priority
Kinda strange since they had a pretty good power last year.
Teaming Paddack and Cole just might be their ticket to contention imo.
IF the pads didn’t have so much cash wrapped up on Hosmer and Myers, I think they’d splurge on Cole.
I think Cole goes to LAD; people been saying that ain’t their MO anymore under Friedman–the big-ticket FA signings–but after 2 World Series losses and getting knocked out by the Nats this year, I think the Dodgers finally go big on Rendon or Cole, and I think it will be the latter. I know I’m picking Cole to LAD in the Free Agent Prediction contest when it opens 🙂
God I’d want my pads to have paddack with Cole. It’ll be down to socal for him definitely. And raltongo oh yeah the hosmer and Myers signings were bad
Either you’re a fool to think the Dodgers are much better than the Yankees, or just trolling as usual.
The Phillies were decimated with injuries. A healthy Phillies squad with an additional solid starter or two puts the Phillies right back up there with the Nats and Braves. Don’t forget the Phillies were in 1st place last year when healthy. I understand the Nationals were banged up during this time too. And I agree that the Braves and Nats are better teams right now. I’d even say the Mets are better, but the Phillies aren’t too far off and a starter would go a long way to close the gap.
every team dealt with injuries, the dif between the phils and braves is depth. the braves hardly had a rotation or bullpen for most of the year and still won the division
Braves 2015;
The difference is not just depth – the Braves have a core of winning players. Guys that will do whatever it takes that day to help their team win. They set the tone.
The Phillies primarily have me-first players. Guys that want to get their stats up, be on the cable-TV sports highlights, and get paid well in their next contract. Most of their position players are primarily concerned with their hitting. The Braves, Nationals, Cardinals, even the Mets – play as a team. The Phillies simply have a lot of guys that currently are playing in Philadelphia. There seems to be no real bond with the players – something a rebuild should have grown (in fact, the Phillies is the worst rebuild I’ve seen in decades). They’re like a fantasy league team whose roster consists of guys the FO thinks have the individual stats to win games. But the individual players don’t have the skills to work off of one another – there’s no blending of talent.
Wonder who was actually the bad guy between Segura and Gordon in the fight they had.
…..bring back the downvote…..
Username checks out.
Yea I think the Phils better start preparing for a Cole-less future…
unless, of course, we are talking about franchise hero and 2008 World Series MVP Cole Hamels 🙂 Would be a great depth move to get Hamels back in the fold at Citizens Bank. I know he was dealing w some shoulder fatigue toward the end of the year, but I think he’s got 2 more good-but-not-great years left in the tank.
he’ll play for any team as long as they give him 9 yr/ 320 mil contract.. with no trade clause..
Maybe he’s just been blowing smoke since his time here in Pittsburgh, but Cole has always made his desire to be closer to home in Cali pretty clear. If Houston doesn’t re-sign him, it’s hard to believe he’d go anywhere else
Were you one of the Phillies fans to say Trout was going to sign with the Phillies as well?
They really need two starters in my opinion and one needs to be a lefty. Cole/Bumgarner would probably be the ideal duo but Odorizzi/Bumgarner could work.
I’d settle for Wheeler and maybe Hamels. The point being, give me two decent starters over 1 great one.
Odorizzi / Bumgarner / Gibson and maybe Felix as a reclamation project?
Man, I’m telling ya… Hoskins to Tampa Bay for two of their top-ish arms, guys ready to bust into the Show. TB is so loaded with pitching talent that they could acquire Hoskins while dealing Philly two arms, all the while keeping Morton, Snell, Glasnow, Honeywell, McKay (likely their top-5 most coveted), plus additional depth beyond that. Let’s say a Yarbrough, Chirinos, and Chris-Archer-trade-throw-in Shane Baz for Rhys Hoskins. Who says no? Rays gotta swap out some of that depth for a hitter, would Hoskins be that guy? Honestly, Phils pitching troubles are too deep to be fixed by Free Agency alone and, while I’d hate to get rid of Hoskins after one down year, we need to replace his offensive value with pitching depth value. If Klentak can swing this trade, then the sting of losing out on Cole won’t be *as* bad, and then you can pick up someone from the second-level of starters… There is going to be a lot of competition for these FA arms this winter and I don’t expect the Phils to come away with Cole, so a big trade is what we need to supplement the signing of a Wheeler, Odorizzi, Porcello type.
Phills laugh and hang up…..
Tampa laughs and hangs up.
I laugh at Tampa laughing
The Rays have 1B’s that are better hitters then Hoskins. They also value defense, and Hoskins in very probably the worst defensive 1B on any MLB roster. He costs his team games with his terrible defensive play.
Add that Scott Boras is his agent, and there’s doubt that any team in MLB is in a hurry to acquire him…….especially a small market team. Phillies would be fortunate to get a so-so prospect back for a guy that had a 1.5 WAR in 2019 playing full-time with an agent demanding top dollar for him.
Rays value positional versatility.. As seen in Hoskins’ adventures in the outfield, he’s a 1st Basemen only. I’m not sure Rays would do Chirinos for Hoskins straight up.
They wouldn’t….not that Hoskins is terrible, but if they want to move Chirinos, they can do much better….
I don’t see anything at all special about Chirinos. They got Trevor Richards and he immediately looked better than Chirinos. I have full confidence the Rays could pluck another Chirinos in a small trade or a reclamation proj FA. And that’s assuming they don’t have a comparable or better option internally already which I’m not sure is a given. Don’t see anything special about that arm. 5 more seasons of control has value but if you like Hoskins’ stick I’d certainly consider it.
It wasn’t that long ago we were talking about Hoskins being one of the better young bats around.
Could also see the Phillies sending back a potential arm. Especially if they could get a guy like Pivetta included in the deal too. The Phils haven’t had a lot of luck fixing him. But I’d place my bets on TB being able to make something out of him. Say the Rays toss them Aguilar. And you have Hoskins/Pivetta for Chirinos/Aguilar swap.
I think the Phillies are abysmal on the player development side. So I could easily see the pair of them doing significantly better in a org like TB.
That’s a bit more palatable than a one for one; Aguilar’s probably going to be non-tendered, and the Rays could certainly use the RH pop.
But let’s remember Hoskins is in a very friendly HR environment, hitting against the soon to be discarded (apparently) homer-happy “super ball” And Chirinos has been doing his thing in the AL East.
It works from a contract-status framework; it’s the Rays, and that’s always consideration #1. And I totally agree on the Phillies development systems; leave Kingery alone, put him at 2B, and you’ve got a poor man’s Pedroia….and not that poor. And Pivetta has more value than he’s shown.
Write it up…….
CBP gets a rap as a “homer heaven” but almost every year is right in the middle of the pack in terms of park factor
Phils are NOT shopping Hoskins – Go back to sleep.
I like the King Felix idea. Have him call up Bartolo Colon, find out where he got the stem cell injections done in Europe, and get on it pronto!
Felix seems to be done unless he learns how to soft toss…..
SD or LAD will sign Cole.. don’t see Phillies or Yanks dropping $200M+ on a SP.
Cole signs with the angels I think, The phillies are better off getting Strasburg if he opts out, then one of these three guys, Wheeler • Bumgarner • Odorizzi
I’m curious. If a team executive mentioned to Strasburg’s “team” in an off hand, secretive manner
“hey, if he opts out we’ll top that”
before free agency begins,
is that against the rules?
100% tampering
Do Angels feel they’re one 6-7 WAR Frontline Starter away from competing in the AL West? And if Ownership signs off on the deal required to land Gerrit Cole, does that prohibit follow up signings? Eppler has done a solid job rebuilding the talent pipeline and can’t start dealing from that prospect base to add big league talent. That’ll eat away at the depth that roster desperately needs. Do Angels think adding multiple starters is more prudent than just Cole? Say adding Keuchel, Odorizzi plus having residual money to sign a catcher? To me, the Angels best route to the playoffs is 2 Starters, a bridge veteran outfielder until the prospects are ready plus a Catcher.
Phillies will be in on Wheeler. Underrated pitcher whose advanced stats back up he’s got elite upside. Needs to tinker with repertoire, and will benefit from a better Defense behind him outside Flushing. Just tapping into his talent. I see Wheeler despite some medical red flags getting a major deal…
Projected Contracts
Gerrit Cole (29)- 9 Yrs $300.0M.
Stephen Strasburg (31)- 6 Yrs $170.0M.
Zack Wheeler (30)- 5 Yrs $100.0M
Hyun Jin-Ryu (33)- 3 Yrs $65.0M
Madison Bumgarner (30)- 3 Yrs $60.0M w/ Player Option to Braves on discount
Jake Odorizzi (30)- 4 Yrs $68.0M
Dallas Keuchel (32)- 4 Yrs $60.0M
Kyle Gibson (32)- 2 Yrs $24.0M
Michael Pineda (31)- (SUSP)- 3 Yrs $28.5M
Tanner Roark (33)- 1 Yr $10.0M
Wade Miley (33)- 2 Yrs $18.0M
Alex Wood (29) – 1 Yr $5.0M plus major incentives
Jordan Lyles (29)- 2 Yrs $14.0M
Rick Porcello (31)- 2 Yrs $22.0M
Michael Wacha (28)- 1 Yr $8.0M
Homer Bailey (34)- 1 Yr $2.5M
Ivan Nova (33)- 1 Yr $7.0M
Adam Wainwright (38)- 1 Yr $5.0M
A couple foreign imports could shake up the market a bit, providing some younger arms that’ll require Posting Fee which are shielded from the CBT.
Kodai Senga (27)
Kohei Arihara (27)
And then potentially the next Miles Mikolas types..
Josh Lindblom (33)
Ángel Sánchez (30)
Gerrit Cole is not getting $300 million
Or nine years…..
Nor 9 years. The annual value might be right, though.
You lost me at 9 years and 300 million for Gerrit Cole
These were entertaining. 9 years for Cole? 3 years for a suspended pitcher who can’t stay healthy?
The talent between stras and cole is the nearly the same how do you justify giving one 300 million over 9 years and the other nearly half just being 2 years olders?
If phillies in win now then like 2012 the sox are best to bundle package for help…Mollie,Price , JBJ, ECT.
Yes & dumb but it is open then go for it
Everything on these blogs is about signing big name free agents – as if that’s how the Astros and Nationals got to the WS this year.
I’d suggest that Phillie fans consider that Joe Gerardi is a former Catcher, and understands pitching and handling pitchers. He’ll revamp the franchises approach to pitching, not only at the ML level but within the farm system as well. For sure expect improvement from Arrrieta, among others.
The Phillies can make their pitching better by straightening out that awful defense – particularly in the infield……
Dump Hernandez – more then half the time his head isn’t in the game. Segura is an awful SS. Move him to either 2B or 3B, and play Kingery at the other position. If the Yankees let Didi go, bring him in to play SS, else go after Jose Iglesias – both play strong D……Iggy is exceptional. Give serious consideration to dumping Hoskins – he makes the entire infield worse then it is. Trade him for anyone that will take on his contract, and if no takers……release him. See about a young guy that won’t cost much but at least can play the position – like a Jake Bauers from the Indians; or even a cheap FA like Todd Frazier, Neil Walker, or Asdrubal Cabrara that can at least catch infielders throws at 1B.
Pitchers are supported by defense – not hitting. Making a play – or a DP – at the right time, saves a pitchers skin. Phillies need to straighten that out first.
Yankee fan here, you are overrating gorardi’s catching experience and he won’t have a impact on the pitching quality. Trust me
” you are overrating gorardi’s catching experience”
LOL
I watched Gerardi play. His catching was what kept him in the majors – he surely wasn’t Yogi with a bat.
As far as his catching with the Yankees – Don Zimmer loved him and swore by what he brought to the team when he was catching. Zim couldn’t say enough nice things about him. And Joe Torre – a former Catcher – loved him as well.
Girardi’s name spelled wrong in two different ways in the same thread was funny. Or should I have said “Girrardi”?
Everything on these blogs is about signing big name free agents – as if that’s how the Astros and Nationals got to the WS this year.
——————————————————–
As if? That’s exactly how the Astros and nationals got to the WS this year. Don’t they have 4 of the 5 most expensive pitchers in BB?
Perhaps I phrased it wrong…..
The core of the Astros and Nationals came from developing their own players. Then yes, the Nats layered 2 FA pitchers on top of that. The Astros got their top 3 starters via trades for players they had developed….most of their position players were developed in-house.
The Phillies have no core. Who on that team have the Phillies developed in their rebuild? Hernandez. Kingery. Nola. That’s a contending teams 3-4 year rebuild?
But the only one that was signed was Max. Everyone else was drafted or traded for. I believe that’s his point.
What “big name free agent” is in the Astros rotation? Verlander, Cole, and Greinke were all acquired via trade…
What “big name free agent” is in the Astros rotation? Verlander, Cole, and Greinke were all acquired via trade…
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For these purposes, they are all ‘big-money acquisitions’. It doesn’t matter whether they signed the big-money contract or if they simply took on a contract dump.
There is a distinction, for example, between signing Price and trading away prospects for Sale. Price is a straight purchase, where Sale is more the equivalent of your farm.
What are you talking about with Hoskins? Trade him to anyone who will take his contract? He’s making peanuts and is under team control until 2024. Release him? You are crazy. Yes, he had a down year, but he’s still got a ton of upswing to him and a ton of trade value, so you need to take a step back with that nonsense you’re talking about him. He plays league average defense too, so I’m not sure where you’re coming from there either. That being said, I wouldn’t be opposed to moving him IF the haul back was massive: a top rotation arm and back end bullpen arm. I think you underestimate his potential/value.
I agree to non tender Hernandez and I’d Franco to that list. Kingery should be the everyday 2B, his natural position. Segura ain’t going anywhere. An upgrade at 3B is absolutely necessary, I like Mike Moustakas or Jose Iglesias (assuming he would be willing to play 3B everyday).
I love the idea of adding Neil Walker, but as a bench upgrade, I agree with a lot of your points, but not the “dumping” Hoskins. Most up here would agree.
I disagree with you on Hopkins. I believe that he should be traded for JBJ.
Sincerely (maybe),
A RS fan
Doofus. His name is HOSKINS and he’s not going anywhere…
Arrieta should’ve had surgery on the elbow way earlier, the Phillies weren’t making playoffs and him pitching 4-5 innings on an injured elbow was stupid. I’m expecting nothing out of arrieta.
Watching Strasburg pitch last night I was thinking redemption for all the trashing he has taken over the years for not pitching in the 2014 playoffs. Maybe the Mets should have put Harvey on the shelf in 2015. Then I was thinking of all of those great pitcher who lose in the playoffs like Verlander a first ballot Hall of Famer. Sometimes the losers are just as good as the winners.
Phillies will end up with cole in their stockings for Xmas this season
Gerrit “Cole” or “Cole” Hamels? I’m hoping they bring back Hamels. He was pitching great for the Cubs until his oblique injury.
Strasburg is not opting out. It just isn’t in his personality. I could see them extending him a year or two, but he won’t opt out. He doens’t like change and I think he likes the thought of being a National for life and respects an organization that looked out for his health and career by shutting him down in 2012, which was definitely the right decision.
I’d tend to agree with this take, especially if they end up winning game 7. Give him 2 or 3 more years on top of what he has left and everyone should be happy.
After last night, Stras opting out is probably the easiest prediction to make next to the Pats making the playoffs. Then he may resign in Washington for 5/140 or 6/170. I could see the Phillies being used as leverage , but when Rendon goes elsewhere , Lerner won’t lose both of them.
I don’t see Cole in Philly, but not for a lack of trying on the Phils part.
Wheeler and Porcello , along with either a Hamels reunion or trading for a guy like Robbie Ray would cost the same as Cole by himself. Then move Vinnie Velo in trade . Nola/Wheeler/Arrietta/Hamels (or Ray)/ Porcello is a better rotation than Nola and the Four Maybes the Phils put out last year.
Stras didn’t want to go to free agency when he had the chance, don’t see him doing it now. Also, he know lives full-time in the DC area.
Shutting him down in 2012 was the wrong decision. The right decision would have been to shut him down in spring training and start his season later. They could have managed his innings the same way but the innings would have included Playoffs.
Why have him start in March and spring training
And shut him down for October when you could have had him miss spring training. Then start his spring in April. Get him to the bigs in June thru October.
Also how can you say it was obviously the right decision when you do not know that pitching another 20-30 innings that year would mean 7 years later he would not be pitching like he is now.
First, the Nationals were not suppose to contend in 2012, it was year earlier than expected. Second, if they didn’t pitch Strasburg in the beginning of the season and win those games they would most likely not have made the post-season anyway.
Of the four surprise teams of that year (Nats, Orioles,Pirates, A’s) the Nats were predicted to be good that year.
As a braves fan, of the braves don’t make moves to at least dramatically improve the bullpen top to bottom, I will be livid. It burnt us bad last offseason. We would have been competing for best record in baseball if our bullpen was just 50% better. We also need another really good starter. I don’t know the answer there cause I know the braves likely won’t spend spend money there. But the revenue has been there to improve the team dramatically. Stop acting like it will hurt our future, there is plenty of money. Braves fans are paying dearly for it
Sorry Phillies fans, but Cole already stated that he wants to go back home and how is Cali. Unless Phillies move to CA, you guys are not getting Cole.
Link to where Cole said this please.
It’s pretty well known that Cole prefers California.
#lolfakenews
Did you google? Google Reddick Cole West Coast.
There is less evidence against Trump and they are having an impeachment inquiry vote and half the country wants him impeached.
There is strong evidence Cole wants to play out West.
there was “strong evidence” that corbin wanted to be a yankee last winter too until he “surprised everyone” by signing with the nats
Boras and Moreno don’t get along and their negotiation styles are different. My opinion, if Cole signs early, he’ll sign with the Angels. If Cole doesn’t sign, the Angels will move on.
If we are still talking about this in January, the Yankees or Phillies and even the White Sox make sense. And if Cole is insistent on California. The Padres and maybe even the Dodgers come into play.
I think Nola, Arrieta and Eflin are a nice trio. Phils don’t have to spend huge bucks on one starting pitcher. Sign Zach Wheeler and bring back Cole Hamels. I’d go to war with that five-some. If Cigar Guy is gonna spend big bucks again this year, then get me Anthony Rendon.
It would be suicidal/self destructive to pay Cole such a large amount of money. Finding two quality starters makes sense and doesn’t hamper the team to make other acquisitions. No brainer. The oft injured Strasburg is another poor choice. Our new manager has lots of insight as to better targets. Marlins have two good young pitchers that can be had.Not for sentimental reasons, but rather astute decision making it would be smart to grab Cole Hamels as a back end starter. He will come cheaper and he wants to go out as a Phillie, successfully. Hoskins, for a good pitcher is not out of the question. His body of work , so far, suggests that these long slumps will continue. Dickerson can be a regular first baseman and outfield sub. We can bank on his consistency.
dickerson is a FA and why trade rhys when his value is down?i was perfectly fine with the season he just put up considering he could never get comfortable with his slot in the lineup. if health permits cutch-rhys-bryce-segura-odubel-kingery is the start of a very formidable lineup
Odubel? Hmmm…Give me a CF’er with, at least, a high school arm, AND, of course, one who respects women; THANK YOU.
Dickerson will be expensive, BUT we should do everything possible to sign him; he may be our best hitter, overall, and “PHILLY” is written all over his game. By the way, he CAN – and wants to – play CF!!
IMO, Segura continues to be one of the most under-rated players in baseball.
He’s a hitter savant and plays ss just fine. He should be INKED into the lineup in the 2, 3, 5 or even 6 spot, depending on who else we have.
Go Phils!
dickerson will NOT be expensive and can NOT play centerfield. there’s a reason he was moved to the corners. im not saying he wasnt good for the phils or that he’s not useful but with bruce coming back there’s very little need for him and that few million he will likely cost will be better spent elsewhere(bullpen specifically)
YOU don’t know what you don’t know…
If they take odubel back I’d rather him in CF than Dickerson. As for Segura he is good but if anything overrated, a 2x all Star making almost 15m/yr and always being traded, shortstops like galvis much more underrated.
so, phillies will sign mrs. cole born in 1908. good for you!
News flash dude. We actually like him up here. Go crawl back in your hole.
If Phillies pass on Cole they could sign Dallas Keuchel 2 years 22m, Cole Hamels, 2 years 22m, and Zack Wheeler 3 years 42m to go along with Aaron Nola & rookie Spencer Howard. Trade Arrieta and a player or eat some money,
As much as I don’t love Arrieta – he can be such a dbag – he’s not going anywhere, at least not before the season. If he does not come back from injury well, then bye bye, Jake…When he’s on, he’s pretty good, but his stubbornness last season, i.e., pitching while injured, may have cost us several W’s.
i love that he tried to pitch thru the injuries last year even though it cost him and us in the long run. that’s the type of stuff that u cant see on paper that can sometimes pay off and im sure he garnered alot of respect not just in the dugout but from fans as well for trying to play thru a serious injury
WRONG
Basically to correct this rotation and drafting errors you’ll end up with a Dodgers salary. Doesn’t guarantee a WS. BP still sucks and they guys they signed wont even play next year.
Cole-NOLA-Arietta doesn’t get it done.
Cole-NOLA-Bauer-Arietta-Howard would be my choice. Trade all the OF prospects. Only need to keep Bohm.
if u trade all the prospects u run into the same problem that the phillies team from 2010 on faced
Don’t Harper and Strasburg hate each other? If so, why would he go to Philly?
They don’t hate each other, but two totally different personalities. They def. didn’t hang out together. However, there is no way Strasburg goes to Philly.
David Price hated the Red Sox and Boston and still does.
$$$
Players who hire Boras love $$$ more than anything else.
Not Stras, the reason he didnt seek free agency when he had the chance. He understands a couple million isnt worth leaving a place you love, a place to be a hero and eventually have a statue. He is also loyal and respects the nats decision for looking out for his health.
“…..if his stay on the open market drags out.” Given that Boras is Cole’s agent that’s a practical certainty. It’s gonna be a bidding war in reality or the one Boras attempts to create in the media. It will be PHI and NYY at the top lest we forget the ubiquitous “mystery team(s)” who are never identified even after the fact. Wake me up when Cole actually signs a contract.
Cole’s arm is gonna fall off
Harper’s contract will go down among the worst in sports history.
Josh Hamilton? Mike Stanton? Albert Puljos?
I thought so much about the Angels need I forgot about the Phillies who seem extremely motivated and have the same need. I’ve heard Cole lives in California and maybe some speculation he may prefer to sign close to home but I think the Phillies might just put that theory to the test
Don’t be surprised when Cole breaks some records for contracts as a pitcher. Look at what Corbin got last year when big spenders went head to head going for strong starting pitching. Corbin is no doubt younger but Corbin also isn’t the guy that draws interest from teams who’s sole mission is to get that playoff game one starter to win the series that matter the most. Guys like Cole aren’t on teams looking to unload right now. We all thought the Grienke deal was crazy but the Astros just traded for him and his contract and last I looked may win game 7 and the WS because of it
Phillies signing Strasburg would be the ultimate F U to the Nationals!
They still may not make the postseason. So doesn’t matter.
It sure was a big F U to the Nationals when the Phillies signed Harper. The Phillies really showed them.
Except the Nationals won the World Series.
Exactly!