President and CEO of the Toronto Blue Jays Mark Shapiro covered a variety of topics while speaking with Arden Zwelling and Ben Nicholson-Smith of Sportsnet.ca (audio link). Shapiro provides insight into evolutions within the game, the process of identifying talent, and the breakdown of responsibility in front offices. He also speaks in-depth about the process of player development as the best opportunity for gaining a competitive advantage.
He uses the Washington Nationals and their recent pennant victory to examine some of these team-building strategies in context. He starts by citing the all-important playoff axiom: “Just get in.” It’s interesting that Shapiro notes this as a point of contention for him throughout his career, as common baseball discourse stalls on this idea every trading season in divvying up baseball’s 30 organizations into buy/sell/hold buckets.
Those in the “anything can happen once you’re in” camp haven taken a hit as recent postseasons have gone chalk. The last three World Series champions were hardly long shots: 103-win Cubs, 101-win Astros, and 108-win Red Sox. The Nats, in fact, are the first Wild Card team to make the World Series since the 2014 Wild Card showdown that featured two second-place clubs playing on the game’s biggest stage. That season, the 88-win San Francisco Giants defeated the 89-win Kansas City Royals in 7 games.
The “imperfect” Nationals check a couple of boxes on Shapiro’s postseason team wish list: frontline starting pitching and players in a variety of career stages. Shapiro has “always been a big believer in looking at the different segments of the player population and feeling like when you’re ready to win you need representation from all three.” Young cores rising through farm systems together has been the en vogue team-building philosophy after the success of Chicago, Houston, and Boston, but to Shapiro’s point, the Nationals are succeeding with a mix of young, mid-prime, and veteran players.
The Nats field not only the oldest players in baseball – reliever Fernando Rodney – but they field the oldest roster in baseball with an average age of 31.1 years old. Veterans like Max Scherzer, Howie Kendrick and Ryan Zimmerman have keyed their postseason success. True to Shapiro’s “need to have a balance,” however, the engine of this Nats roster is their young superstar duo of Juan Soto, 20, and Victor Robles, 22. The steadiest production will usually come from those players in their prime, Anthony Rendon, Trea Turner, and Stephen Strasburg are some of the players that qualify for the Nats. Shapiro sees all three brackets as vital to team success: energy from the youth, reliability from those in their prime, and the strongest desire to win coming from those veteran players.
The full podcast is worth a listen, as Shapiro speaks directly to rumors about different job opportunities. Notably, he listens to all inquiries, but he has not been interviewing for outside opportunities. Given his comments here and before, Shapiro continues to be a good candidate for an extension this winter.
Quick trivia question for you – since the wild card was introduced in 1995, which has happened more often: (a) a wild card team has won the series, or (b) the team with the most regular season wins has won the series.?
Answer – each has won 6 times.
Yes, but how many wild card teams since the single elimination was instituted.
Not sure why that matters. Both pre and post, one wild card team per league advanced to a multigame series against the league winner..
Nice question.
I listened to the podcast. Shapiro should be teaching somewhere about process and how to use many words to say nothing. He is a smart guy but shouldn’t be running a baseball franchise. Although he appears to be very good at renovations.
What renovations?
Totally renovated Dunedin stadium and practice fields etc, plus a few changes to Rogers Centre, although the big renovation of Rogers Centre has been taken out of his hands.
“although the big renovation of Rogers Centre has been taken out of his hands.”
Care to elaborate? Because I think you made this up…
Jimmy,,,,,u gonna back up your claim?
There are many Sportsnet articles on this. Roger’s is involved in a major redevelopment. Google is your friend.
If you had actually listened to the podcast, Shapiro states very clearly about the development of Rogers centre and surrounding lands has been taken out of his hands. Google it if you don’t believe me.
It’s been taken out of his hands because he has done his part and he is no longer needed for said project. NOT because he has done anything wrong whatsoever as you are implying.
One of the mandates and main reasons SHapiro was hired was to oversee the renovation of the Rogers Centre. He had over seen the new stadium in Cleveland and Rogers wanted his experience. This is all old news and easily verified by googling.
Now he has been taken off that job. But I understand that he has done an amazing job in Dunedin.
FYI, From Bob McCown: “There is a level of uncertainty about the relationship with senior executives that (Shapiro) deals with at Rogers and that he answers to at Rogers…usually where there’s smoke there is fire … and there’s smoke.”
AA did not jump to another job right away. Beeston retired, they hired Shapiro. AA’s contract was done and before they could offer him a new deal he chose to leave, knowing it was going to be a disaster
It wasn;t until the following season he went to the Dodgers as VP of player development. He left the Dodgers after that year and took the job as GM of the Braves who were in trouble because of the illegal things the former president and GM did that got them banned for life. And since he;s taken over as GM the Braves have gotten much better every year.
I’m not suggesting for one minute that the Jays should rehire AA or that he would even consider coming back. What I am suggesting is the Jays need to boot Shapiro and Atkins and hire two people in the style of Beeston and AA. And I have no idea where to find two of that ilk but there has to be two out there.
I also liked Bob McCowan and I think he knows what he’s talking about. I also wonder whats going on at Rogers, MCowan put the Fan and later SN on the map and won awards for his work and yet he’s leaving Rogers and from what he said it is in regards to the direction they are heading. Has this changed Rogers let him go once before and had to bring him back, but if it hasn’t it makes you wonder about the things Rogers does.
McCowan has been around the Jays since day one remember he was the announcer at the old CNE stadium when they started
Kelt: Dombrowski.
“anything can happen once youre in”
Oakland is 2-12 in postseason series (inc. WC games) the last 12 seasons they’ve been “in” lol try again Mark
Yes because Oakland is the only team that matters
youre clearly missing the point
Bring back the downvote.
2-12. Not 0-12
Frontline starting pitching is something Toronto falls well short. Shapiro’s had 4 years to figure that out. Before you question that, Nate Pearson might be a big-time arm if his offspeed pitches improve. Asking two or three current farm system arms to be Scherzer, Strasburg and Corbin is too big an ask. Besides, AA could have made an offer to Scherzer when he was a free agent and didn’t. Jays needed a pitcher Instead he overpaid for a Catcher he didn’t need.
The Nats managed to draft 1st overall two years in a row. Meanwhile the Jays last Top 5 draft pick was 1997. They will pick 5th in 2020.
Who is asking one of the current arms in the farm system to be Scherzer or Strasburg?? Nobody! Wake up!!
If he’s looking at the Nationals then of course you have to note that they have scherzer and Strasburg. So it Shapiro wants to use them as an example of his philosophy then it’s unrealistic for the Jays to use the Nationals for a comparison unless they get some top end starters.
Exactly what Cedric said. Obviously Cedric understood the point. Once again you didn’t, Coldbeer. You should try another sport. Baseball is way too above your brain grade.
To explain my question…riddle me this…how did the Astros build the front line starting rotation they have? Was it through draft and develop or trade?!
So when the initial point is that someone is saying Toronto has to look at their farm system for internal succession of talent I disagree since top level guys can be acquired in other ways.
Remember when Cleveland acquired that ready-now, top of the rotation pitcher during their contending years? Kluber hadn’t emerged, thus does not count.
Maybe bring up the Astros a comment or two earlier before backpeddling.
Jays have what appear to be good pitching prospects. Thornton and Pannone and a couple of the others but they were in their first year and its rare a rookie comes out blazing it usually takes a couple of years.
Also the F/A list isn’t strong this year and there is no way that pitchers of the caliber of Scherzer, Strasburg,or Cole are going to look at the Jays, they want long term with money but they also want to go to a current contender.
Out of all the prospects you could have mentioned, you use Thornton and Pannone? Thornton is at-best a #4 and Pannone is not a starting pitcher on any major league team. Pannone is wild, misses spots and overthrows to touch 89 on the gun. If he wasn’t a lefty he would be in an Independent League.
Pearson, Kloffenstein, Manoak, Winckowski, Murray, Woods-Richardson, Pardinho, Kay….all would have helped your argument of “good pitching prospects.” Thing is, 7 years ago the Jays had McGuire, Stroman, Sanchez, Syndergaard, Norris, Desclafini, Nicolino, Wojceichowski, Hutchison, Drabek, Smoral, Cardona, Nolin, Stilson….The percentage of misses is higher than the hits with this group. Faith in young arms? Sure, go ahead. Might be time to consider the trade route in a year.
Jays and Orioles battling it out for AL East cellar dwellers next year unless they sign some real pitching or make some real trades, not just old reclamation projects and dumpster diving.
I wish the Phillies would get on board with the just get in mentality. Anything can and usually does happen in the postseason.
they wanted to, but you cant break the bank to just be that second wild card team. there were more issues than just one big pickup could have fixed, so dealing premium prospects was a risky venture. that’s why the Vargas and Dickerson moves, along with savvy claims like Jared Hughes were good plays – they gave them a chance without sacrificing anything in the way of prospects.
Phillies are actually in good position to contend for multiple seasons.
Assembled a great core, and the young pitching staff looks like it is
poised to improve. Adding an ace level starter, maybe ?
If you could do a presser saying you’re retiring from the game and taking Atkins with you that would be lovely
Shapiro is Sam Walton in drag. Too cheap to spend a dime on any player to put him over the hump. Thing is Sam was a marketing genius. Shapiro is just a controller. Feel sorry for the Great fan base of the Jays. Shapiro goals have always been 500 and bank a lot a cash under the pretense he is actually trying to do something with the on field talent.
I think Shapiro is very over-rated as a GM.
Lerting Anthopolous go was the worst decision that Shapiro has made. Most of the other decisions haven’t been good either.
Why do so many people on this site base their ridiculous comments on their personal narrative? Shapiro did not let AA go…he offered him a job to stay without decision making autonomy. AA left for another job that also did not give him that. So AA jumped, he wasnt pushed.
Fair enough. Let’s be serious though. A GM job without decision making ability is the same as saying “I don’t trust your ability in this role, but am too much of a coward to fire you.” It’s getting someone to fire themself. Either way, my point is still correct.
coldbeer is right, even though ‘throw’ has the general gist of it.
Coldbeer is never right. Again, if Shapiro wanted AA to stay he would have done what was necessary to keep him. Technically yes, Shapiro let AA go.
Why do so many jaded Jays fans have this belief that Shapiro had some obligation to give AA whatever he wanted?! He didn’t have to offer him any job at all…
Who said obligation? And who said Shapiro was wrong not to bring back AA? All I said was IF Shapiro wanted AA back he would have had him back. If you are looking for an AA cheerleader you’re looking in the wrong direction.
AA left without anyone asking him or forced him to leave. He knew what was coming and wanted no part of what has turned into a joke.
And if you recall Shapiro was totally surprised when AA left.
I would still take AA over Shapiro everytime for baseball decisions.
Shapiro didn’t let AA go. AA left which shocked the hell out of Shapiro. But AA saw what was going under Shapiro and he wasn’t going to have any part of it so he left. and has built a good club in Atlanta in two years and will continue to build the Braves.
Except he didn’t build that Atlanta team. You can’t seriously be this clueless, just need some tinted glasses?
Nevertheless, the Braves organization are very smart to
have acquired one of the best young executives in baseball.
Agreed
If Shapiro wanted AA back he would have brought AA back. Technically Shapiro DID let AA go as he was hired to take over as President. Shapiro’s “shock” was all for show.
Yup, Guests you nailed it. Shapiro is all about control of his own processes. He is a control freak to the max.
Is the correct spelling ” Anthopoulos ” ?
Gotta love Alex Anthopolous resume over the last few years when it is looked through the eyes of winning: Winning follows him around.
2015: Jays AL East Champs [AA VP & GM]
2016 Jays loss to Cleveland in AL series [AA’s team], Dodgers win Division series [AA VP Baseball Ops]
2017 Dodgers make World Series [AA VP Baseball Ops]
2018 Braves win 90 games after 72 previous year, make NL Division series [AA VP & GM]
2019 Braves win 97 games and make NL Division Series [AA VP & GM]
AA deserves zero credit for LA and Atlanta. An above average GM would have brought the Jays to the postseason by 2014 at the very latest. AA made some awful decisions and needed too many moves to hide the bad ones to reach the postseason. Had he not traded for Tulo and Price they would have missed the playoffs again, even with Donaldson. Sorry, the AA boosting narrative does not work.
Your wrong about the Braves, if you recall they were in decline due to mishandling by their president and GM which got them both banned from baseball.
As for the Dodgers AA was VP of player development for one year before he moved on to the Braves.
And your own statement supports his work with the Jays . Had he not traded for Tulo and Price they would have missed the playoffs again, even with Donaldson.”
As Beeston did with Gillick and again with AA you build your team thru a group of veterans and rookies and when its ready you trade or thru F/A get those final pieces.
Since you never mentioned Gillick I suspect you don’t remember them bring in Jack Morris, and Dave Winfield, Alamar
Declining? His predecessor only handed him an amazing situation on a silver platter. If Albies, Swanson, Acuna and every player acquired before Anthopoulos was in any decline I would say hand me that decline every single time.
You made my point regarding the Dodgers.
Anthopoulos’ regime developed very little in Toronto, unlike Gillick. Never developed a position player of significance. Drafted pitching and barely scratched the surface on that. Gillick was able to build a contender along with a good system. AA had to destroy a mediocre system to win 1 division title. Big difference.
I would love to have AA’s career. And I didn’t say he was responsible for LA or Atlanta. I said winning seems to follow him around.
And he did do a pretty good job of adding pieces to the braves to go from 72 wins to 90 wins in one season.
Jimmer it was right place, right time for AA. It was an incredible opportunity that opened thanks to shenanigans from the previous regime. He did nothing prior to the 2018 season and his team improved 18 games.
My reference of LA and Atl was for Keltic.
His usual caution will come back to bite him, like it did this postseason. When he’s ready to renegotiated his next contract he’ll pull out all the stops.
What has he won? How many more years do ya run him out there with no WS wins? LOL Winning follows him???? He has won nothing in his 15 years as a VP and GM
Shapiro spouting off about “you have to be there”, how would he know about that. He did nothing when he was with Cleveland. He got to the post season during his first season with the Jays only because he inherited the team Beeston and AA had built. But even that year they got in on the wildcard slot.
Shapiro and Atkins in 4 years have managed to tear apart a team sighting they are in a rebuild. Jays had been in a rebuild with Beeston and AA and was seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. Shapiro and Atkins blew the tunnel up.
While the Braves, Dodgers, Tampa didn’t win in post season, one thing you have to notice is that every team that made it to the post season with the exception of the Cards had key players that were dealt from the Jays.
You need a good President and a GM who can evaluate talent both rookie and veteran and blend them together. like Beeston and AA did and like Beeston and Gillick did unfortunately the Jays don’t have that.
Shapiro talks about proven pitching being a priority. Where is it going to come from this upcoming F/A is not strong on proven pitchers.
You cannot say he didn’t do anything in Cleveland and then credit AA in Toronto for 2016. That is completely undermining your whole argument right there lol. The Indians teams of the past few years are all his core lol
“knotz” , are you sure about the F/A proven pitchers comment ?
Even not counting Gerrit Cole, there are at least half a dozen proven guys,
lefties and righties with strong FIPs, that can give you 150 IP + in a contenders rotation. I’ll let you name them yourself..
Shapiro built a good minor league system in cleveland. He is good at it.
He is terrible at producing MLB winners though. The next Cleveland regime had to come in and clean up his MLB mess of Bourne and Swisher etc then acquire the talent needed to do to the world series, something Shapiro cannot do.
The Jays will never win a World Series with Shapiro at the helm.
You’re such an idiot
JD, how professional and polite and mature of you to say so.
How long are you willing to wait for no WS win until you say “Shapiro must be fired”? Another 2 years? Another 5 Years? It has already been 3 years.
Can you elaborate JDGoat? Because anyone can call others an idiot, however you might want to back it up with a real baseball take. It’s also unbecoming for a weak social justice warrior like yourself to ridicule others with name calling.
^ the irony
Lol
Shapiro has never won. So why would someone doubting that he can win make that person and idiot?
WOW how many years did we wait under AA and Beaston? Were you calling for them to be fired after what 9 years of no WS wins?
Beeston and AA came in to picked up the pieces of the disaster Richarde had created. Also we had al thos years with the german brewery who didn’t want the team but got saddled with is when the bought out the canadian brewery
And when they pick a new presidentt and GM its going to take multiple years to fix what Shapiro and Atkins have done.
And please don’t anyone suggest Dombrowski he builds on the short term gives you instant now but nothing long term.
Never because I remembered how Beeston and Gillick delivered us back to back world series.. The difference here is I am of an age where as an adult I was attending games at the old CNE stadium and the growing years.. and when the Expos were the Canadian team and the radio broadcasts. with Dave Van Horne
Again, Gillick still had a farm system. AA didn’t because he did not draft well or develop well. Please stop with the unfair comparison. Gillick deserves better than that. In 1992 they still had Hentgen, Delgado, Sprague, Derek Bell, Gonzalez, Green, Karsay.
2016? Vlad Guerrero. Maybe Tellez. 5 of the Top 10 from Baseball America in 2016 are either injured or out of baseball and it’s only 2019. Player development has been a problem since Ricciardi and it has barely improved since.
Almost makes you yearn for Dombrowski afterall.
It took AA that long to figure out how to do it. He didn’t even know how until the last few years when he started by acquiring Donaldson.
The Dombrowski methodology is probably the only way the Jays come out of the AL. Please don’t buy into the longterm competative crap. That can only be done with an elite GM and a max’d out budget like the Yankees or Redsox.
Or you’ll be like Tampa always a bridesmaid.
When the Jays won they had the highest payroll in baseball, kinda like the Astros and Nationals.
What isn’t discussed about Dombrowski is why he wasn’t hired in 2001-02 when Paul Godfrey and Rogers chose Ricciardi; Dombrowski had a spending plan they were not willing to commit to. Ricciardi felt they could win with a $45-50’ish million dollar payroll with Delgado eating up over a third of that.
What Rogers needs is a guy like Dombrowski with rings to come in and tell Rogers what it will take to win and dominate. Rogers needs a personality like that running the Jays. They’ve never had that take no prisoners GM except for 1 week before the 2015 trade deadline.
And Beeston had AA’s back. And just after the 2015 season we learned that the Board had reached out to get rid of Beeston and look for other candidates.
This Rogers board doesn’t want to win first. They want to make money, that is their primary goal.
Any Billionaires around who want to buy the BlueJays as a toy? Rogers is selling….
I’ll call my bank to see if I qualify for a $2.5-billion dollar loan.
It’s part of the problem in most cases of a sports team having a corporate owner. They have lots of money that could be spent in the pursuit of winning, but it usually ends up being the bottom line of making money that matters, rather than the passion of winning at all costs that comes with a very wealthy single owner!