The Orioles have placed infielder Jonathan Villar on outright waivers after being unable to find a trade partner for the fleet-footed switch-hitter, Roch Kubatko of MASNsports.com reports (via Twitter). Villar’s projected $10.4MM arbitration salary apparently served as too substantial a roadblock to overcome when marketing him to other teams.
It’s an extreme cost-cutting measure for the tanking Orioles — one that frankly looks unnecessary. Even with Villar in the fold, the Orioles’ Opening Day payroll projects to come in south of $80MM, so it’s not as if there is (or should be) any real pressure to shed salary.
Beyond that is the simple fact that Villar has been a fine player in Baltimore — arguably the organization’s best in 2019. The 28-year-old batted .274/.339/.453 with 24 home runs, 33 doubles, five triples and a whopping 40 stolen bases (in 49 attempts) this past season. Defensive metrics soured on his work at second base but gave him passable marks at shortstop — and Villar does have a track record as a useful glove at second prior to the 2019 season.
Both FanGraphs and Baseball-Reference.com valued Villar at four wins above replacement this past season. Clearly the Orioles aren’t the only team in the league that doesn’t value Villar at his current price point — hence the lack of trade interest — but there’s virtually no way off spinning this as a move that makes Baltimore a better team in 2020.
Even if the Orioles reinvest that roughly $10MM sum, there’s little reason that with their current level of financial commitment they couldn’t simply have kept Villar and spent an additional $10MM anyhow. And it’s unlikely that Villar’s eventual replacement will give them superior on-field results. It looks to be a move designed to lose more games next season, and it’s surely a tough blow for a fanbase that has had few quality performances to cheer over the past couple of seasons.
Villar will be available for any club to claim at this point, though the new team would be on the hook for the same projected salary in arbitration. If he goes unclaimed, he’ll surely opt for free agency, at which point he’ll be able to sign with any team for any amount. Given the lack of trade interest in Villar, it’s certainly possible that he will indeed pass through waivers, but he should draw plenty of interest on Major League deals — perhaps even a two-year pact at a lower annual rate. For the Orioles, meanwhile, the optics of letting him go for no return aren’t great, and the move will be tough to sell to the fans.
Yankees. Yankees. Dear god, please the Yankees
Giants, Giants. Dear God, please the Giants!
Cubs, Cubs. Dear God, please the Cubs!
I like the player but they have enough guys with a 25% K rate in their line-up, they need to focus on OBP and contact.
The Cubs don’t have the $$ to sign him anyway. So he’s a no go.
If the Cubs don’t even have that much money available, they’re in big trouble with their middle infield hole (depending on whether Baez plays 2B or SS), an open rotation spot with no depth, and their swiss cheese bullpen.
Redsox, please
BS. The Cubs can easily afford Jonathan Villar and pay part of salary by dumping Addison Russell before the December 2nd contract tender deadline. This is a no-brainer for Theo unless he can somehow convince the Royals to part with Whit Merrifield this offseason which would no doubt involve trading 2B Nico Hoerner as part of the package.
Jonathan Villar could do for the Cubs what Dexter Fowler did for them in 2015 and 2016. The Cubs haven’t had a dependable leadoff hitter since Fowler departed and 28-year old Villar could now fill the role.
You might recall that Fowler also struck out at a high rate and was also considered a mediocre defensive player. What Fowler did for the Cubs and what nobody else has been able to duplicate since was to set the table with a solid OBP and smart base running.
Like Fowler, Villar is also a switch-hitter and an even more proficient base stealer. Villar swiped 40 bases last season and 62 as a Brewer in 2016. Fowler has never sniffed those numbers in his MLB career.
Villar isn’t an on base guy like Fowler though. Even in Fowler’s down years he’s a dependable OBP guy. He strikes out a ton too. Now they were rumored to have interest at the deadline last year; so if he takes a 2/10 deal or something like that they might add him. But it’d be a stretch to consider him to be a dependable lead off hitter. That’d be a big IF
@ilikebaseball
He had a 4.0 WAR even with his 25% K rate. His OPS+ was 109. Do you prefer GIDP over Ks?
Pirates, Pirates, Dear God, yeah right!
Yes Pirates! And the new Cherington regime has officially begun!
🙂
You want a .339 OBP at leadoff on a contending team?
THIS…
I am sick and tired already of the comment the Cubs don’t have any money. Bryant may be heading to the Angels for a top prospect centerfielder; Cole Hamels 20 million off the books now; And the new T.V. Station will allow some maybe even a lot of revenue. Even Contreras could be traded for more money leverage. The Yankees are way over the CAP and they are always getting players. You must be a White Sox fan or a Cardinals fan.
Giants are getting ready to do the same thing with Kevin Pillar…
what? you mean getting a single MVP vote wasn’t enough to guarantee him a job? Despicable!
Yeah I wouldn’t be surprised if we do. And I wouldn’t have any problem. I’m ready for Duggar to get a real shot.
Duggar had a real shot. His numbers didn’t warrant him a starting role, amd his health is a big question mark. I’d prefer to have Davis up, who’s at least proven in AAA that he can hit. Giants have one of the largest revenues of any team. I’d hate for them to get cheap for cheapness sakes.
Winning a Gold Glove didn’t guarantee a job, so…
pillar never won a Gold Glove
I’m thinking Pillar to the Mets…
As well they should because Pillar had a career year but still had a terrible OBP AND his defense declined. Villar, on the other hand, would fit perfectly on the Giants (lead off, play 2B/SS and hit for average). So the situations are very different. Unfortunately given the way the waiver wire works, there are many teams ahead of SF, so he’ll probably end up somewhere else unless a deal can be reached.
Please, Giants, you have been given the best possible gift for thanksgiving. Take it and forget about finding that super-utility infielder you needed. You’ve got in Dubon and Solano.. Go for it.
Villar is not worth the $10M per year he is asking, at best average D. Go ahead and take him, I don’t see any team knocking down the door to get him.
It seems like a lot of people want them on their team. Why did he get released? I assume it’s because the Orioles don’t think he’s worth the $10.4 mill but he must have been pretty good, right? How did he get and arbitration figure that high in the first place if he isn’t good? If he is going through waivers Tue first shot will be the tigers. The Reds are further down and the Giants are even further. If the Yanks get to claim him it is gonna be after at least 27 teams pass on him so it might be a bad idea to pay a guy $10.4 million if 27 other teams don’t want him even though they don’t have to trade anything.
What if you think the Orioles front office personnel are really dumb and clueless about what good baseball players are?
Sometimes I think they might be taking this rebuilding business a bit too far. There’s talk of them being close to trading Bundy. Alberto is said to be on the block, and if you get rid of those guys, they almost have to release Davis and trade Mancini. Seems they’re trying to set a record for most losses in the three year period.
So they looked at the Cubs and Astros then at the Phillies and figured out the Phillies weren’t the model to follow.
This guy trolling again. Either that or a noob. Do you not understand the O’s have no use for $10 second baseman while they are rebuilding? When rebuilding, A. Ticket sales plummet so payroll has to go down. B. Why waste that money now when you can spend it later when you’re in a competitive window. C. Villar will be a FA before the O’s next winning team, trade or waive him now in an effort to get something of value for that future team.
The O’s know Villar is good, which is why they are trying to move him. It’s called business.
Also, could you say that about DD and previous regime? I say no because they found and drafted a ton of talent. They just could never develop that talent, especially on the pitching side. Elias has been in the helm for all of a year. We cannot make any judgements about his tenure at this point.
Do you realize they are now giving him up for nothing? They tried a trade and didn’t find a partner. They should have kept him, they need a position player besides Mancini who actually deserves to be on a major league roster.
To whom do you refer?
He for whom the bell tolls.
mgraub00- you keep him to start the season. Injuries happen and they would probably got something for him mid season. Stupid love by an organization known for it’s stupidity.
*move
Why would anybody think that?
What does that tell you no team wanted Villar, ave D and high K ratio
I think he will clear waivers and go through unclaimed. Then he will sign a 1 year free agent contract worth less than $5 million with some team.
If I understand it right, the Yankees will get a shot before the reds. i think it goes through everyone in the AL before a NL team can touch him.
The orioles have been looking to trade him. With no suitors. The cubs were the only team interested at the deadline and they decided to grab Tony Kemp for the minimum instead. Major league teams don’t value Villar at 10 million bucks. If they did, Elias would’ve dealt him to the first team that offered.
Yeah… Now that I think about it, I believe you’re right Nats. I wish MLB would stop pretending they are actually different leagues like that. Both leagues play the same game and compete for the same ultimate title. The NFL used to be 2 different leagues too but they don’t operate like that anymore. Once the ultimate prize is the WS that every team wants they are the same league. The Marlins should get a shot way before the Astros.
Well, jbigz12, looks like that confirms what you suggested in the Dylan Bundy thread about the Orioles’ probable aversion to taking on any additional salary from outside the organization this offseason.
Yeah I highly doubt that the O’s will. I think it’s likely they sign a SS for probably half or less of what Villar was due this season.
Maybe MLB should divide the leagues differently. In one league put all the teams “competing.” Put all the rest who are “rebuilding” in the other. What’s the point of having the Yankees play the Orioles 19 times, for example? No wonder they win a 100 games or so in a season. That would be an honest way to show that a good portion of the MLB teams aren’t really MLB caliber in the first place. How long can MLB survive the imbalance that currently exists? And what’s next—“load management” for players on competing teams who will be rested against the rebuilding teams? A game between the Yankees and Orioles might be reduced to the level of a spring training exhibition. How many fans will pay to see Orioles’ “prospects” against the Yankees’ bench players, a back-end starter, and a few regulars? And how long can you expect them to go on paying for that level of competition?
I actually really agree with you realsox. I don’t really think they should swap the teams because that would basically be like turning half the league into a 4 A minor league and then putting them up against the best team that is in MLB. I get you’re underlying point thought and I think there is literally only one solution. There has to be both a salary basement and salary cap. The two can be really close like it is in the NFL. Something like the cap would be set at around $200 million and the basement would be at least $180 million. The cap and basment should both incrementaly climb every single year to at least cover inflation. I wouldn’t even have a problem if the basement was higher than that. Even something over $190 million would be perfect for now and it could only go higher than that. You have to have both. If you have a cap without a basement then the cheapo teams like the Marlins and Pirates will never spend cash and just try to profit as much as possible by keeping minimum payroll. If you just have a basement then players salary would rise because teams like the Marlins and Pirates would only spend right at the basement while teams like the Yankees and Cubs just double their payrolls without penalty. The problem is that this is a pipe dream. I think teams like the Marlins, Pirates, A’s, Rays, etc. hate the idea because they never want to spend that much cash no matter what. The part that gets me is that the MLBPA is even more against it than those teams are. If they did that playersbwould get a much larger price of the pie. Sure some teams like the Yankees, Dodgers and Cubs would have to lower their payrolls by as much as $40 million dollars but about 15 teams would be forced to raise their payrolls by at least $70 million each. The dollars make sense for the MLBPA because that is waaay more $ for the players. As long as it is set on a sliding scale it will only get better from their. The NFL does this and they force all the teams to spend at least 97% of the payroll every season. The result is that multiple teams go worst to first every single year. Teams love it because they share all the ticket sales revenue and every single team makes a profit every single year. Like I said before, for some reason this is a pipe dream and it will not happen anytime soon. What I don’t get is why the players seem to be the most against it. They are the ones that would benefit the most. Maybe stars like Bryce Harper wouldn’t end up getting $330 million right away but there would be a ton of players like Whit Merriefield that would all make over $20 million every single year. It seems like players don’t care as much about getting a bigger piece of the pie as they do about star players getting the highest maximum contract value. Maybe they think it sets precedent and will slowly trickle down or something? The basement cap system wouldn’t involve trickling down. It would completely flood everything from the basement to the ceiling and both would grow more every season. I think the players would be smart to openly propose this to the league. That way it would prove the cheap teams don’t want it. The current luxury tax system is basically being treated like a salary cap by owners. The players should take advantage of it and at least get a hard salary basement in exchange for a hard salary cap since the luxury tax ends up functioning almost like a hard salary cap anyway. The only other option I can think of to solve the severe lack of parity the current MLB financial system causes is too far out to ever consider. It would involve a rule that forces all free agents to never sign a contract longer than one season. That way players would get the highest average annual value possible on ever single contract and teams would be able to decide that they are gonna go all in for it and buy any player they want without the possibility of the contract going so bad that it tanks their payroll and overall team performance for the better part of a decade. It would suck for guys like Chris Davis and Miguel Cabrerra because they wouldn’t be getting paid like stars anymore since they aren’t stars anymore. They would however have made a much higher salary on the years they were productive. If Mike Trout can make at least $36 million a year on a 12 year deal, imagine how much he would have made on a 1 year deal. There’s literally no risk of a player bringing down a franchise for an extended period of time. I am sure Trout could have easily acquired several consecutive 1-year $50+ million deals. Even if he falls off and becomes a worthless player 4 years before his current contract is over, he still would have made more money overall in 8 years than he will in 12 years now. That 1 year max contract situation is never gonna happen though. The salary basement/cap system might never happen either. I really wish the MLBPA would make a very player friendly salary basement/cap system proposal to MLB and work from there. It would benefit almost all the players immensely. Can you imagine what it would do for the MLBPA in the press if MLB turned it down? “Today the Major League Baseball Players Association proposed a salary cap to MLB. MLB turned it down even though they have been saying this is what they want for over 25 years.” That would be it. Every fan would start leaning way harder to the players side and agree with them on everything. In ’94 the strike made fans dislike players. If this happened it would make fans love players and dislike owners. A work stoppage on those terms would cripple the league way more than it did in 1994. The owners would have to accept and the players would hold all the cards even though they would be the ones making more money off the deal.
@standupguy:
Paragraphs are your friend.
Unfortunately (as a Giants fan) you are correct. The Yankees already have a a wealth of riches. But how the Orioles could just drop Villar is beyond any sane baseball mind.
Totally agree!
Interesting post has pros and cons but ticket prices parking food etc will rise and price more fans out of the game I believe this was the 6th or 7th yr in a row attenance has dropped salaries are way too high too much greed teams need NFL type contracts
Whoa that’s a lot of words
Wait til your team rebuilds.
Ticket prices and payroll are almost entirely decoupled at this point. Payroll is paid for by cable deals.
Ticket prices are going up because teams realize that people who can afford pricier tickets are also more likely to spend on food and other goods in the park. The higher prices and additional spending by wealthier patrons offsets any marginal decrease in revenue from lower attendance.
It works in the short-term to maximize profits in a given year but it’s going to hurt the fan-team relationship in the long run, which isn’t a problem if the owner plans to sell before the long-term effects are realized.
Yeah like last year when no one wanted Lemahieu. And then theres Voit and Urshela who no one else wanted,The fact other teams pass on a player means nothing, Many organizations are clueless and some just either don’t need a 2bor don’t have 10 million to give up.
The Tigers are sitting at 39 on the 40 man and have the 1st pick in the Rule 5 draft. I believe Villar’s bat is better than anything they’ll find in the draft, but I highly doubt they’d claim him and commit to that arb salary. He would be a fine FA signing for the Tigers as he would give them a solid ss/2b piece over guys like Ronny Rodriguez (who would probably be dropped from the 40 man) or youngsters like Alcantara or Harold Castro (though I like Harold and while the Tigers like Willi).
Yanks are ahead of every national league team.
AL will go first, followed by NL.
Standup – Steerike ONE
Standup – Steerike TWO AND THREE.
Villar will get claimed by multiple teams, and then someone will work a trade for him. The AL vs NL thing won’t be the determining factor. It will be how much the O’s will be able to get from a claiming team. The highest bidder will get him.
Wait… ear, if what you are saying is true then why is it a known fact that they already tried to trade him and there were zero teams interested? You mean to tell me that they couldn’t trade him for squat when 29 teams had the ability to acquire him but now that at least 28 if those teams aren’t even allowed to even try makes it more likely he gets traded? In that case, why didn’t the team that you think is going to claim him just trade for him in the first place? Demand goes down so value goes up? That’s straight up backwards economics. No one is going to trade for him because no one believes he is worth $10.4 million. Certainly no one is going to trade anything to get him in addition to paying him the $10.4 million they don’t believe he’s worth.
Because the O’s were asking too much for him. If more than one team puts in a claim for him, which I believe will happen, then the O’s will trade Villar to the team offering up the most in return, which will have nothing to do with waiver claim order or which league the interested team is in. It won’t be nearly what they were originally asking, but they’ll get something in return.
As for no one being interested in a decent hitting middle infielder coming off of a 4 WAR season, think again. $ 10 M is a reasonable one year deal price (and he’ll be a FA in 2021 so there’s very little risk). How much do you think Didi will get? Cause the backs of their b-ball cards are similar.
He will not get claimed, no team wants to pay that $10 million arbitration figure. And second if someone does pick him up on waivers they own him and no trade is involved. You need to learn the waiver process.
SMM, No you need to go back to school. The O’s can still trade him to the highest bidder. All it takes is two motivated buyers.
And he will be picked up. $10 million for a FOUR WAR middle infielder is reasonable. He generated value of nearly $32 million last year. And it’s only a one year commitment, because he’s a free agent in 2021. Low risk, high reward, as compared to Didi. Didi is a better fielder, but their offensive abilities are similar. And Villar is not coming off of an injury: He played 162 games last year.
Villar is worth $6M at best, ave. D at 2B and K’s are too common
Yeah, forget about Arb calculators. And forget about Value generated calculations. Let’s go with the nowhere dart board …
Why would y’all want someone who finally had his first truly good season and it was even good enough to justify a $10 payment to one of the worse teams in baseball?
I wouldn’t want him that bad, but at the same time it’s shocking the O’s don’t want him.
He’s had multiple above average batting seasons, Major League Baseball needs to end this tanking stuff, why would a single baltimore fan even show up next year to watch a team of AAAA players and trey Mancini, this type of trash needs to end, I want to watch the best players play, it’s barely even enjoyable beating baltimore because of the amount of pathetic they are
Your rant is noted.
Tanking, while I understand it, sucks. Think fans are excited to catch a game when Baltimore comes to town?
Probably. Most fans like to see their team win
above average? no. years with 10 to 15 hr 315obp. not really good
Does that mean you would pay MLB prices to see your team play some high school team? Your team would win, but what does it really prove to beat a team with not much chance of beating you?
Are you really operating under the assumption that there are 50k baseball purists every time a stadium sells out? Most of those guys don’t know a thing about baseball. They‘ll go to see a winning team. So yeah I don’t think the orioles or any other team being bad hurts a good team’s attendance.
@bravesfan
Villar had a 3.9 WAR in 2016. 2019 was not his “first truly good season”
Tigers. Tigers. Dear god, please the Tigers.
Yes!!!
He would bring a lot of speed to the Yankees, would be another great infield option.
Yankees need to worry about not being hustlers, and giving Elsbury the money he’s owed.
Jonathan Villar is a very strong candidate to be a Cub in 2020. He has been a reported target of theirs this offseason and can now be had for cash without sending assets back to the Orioles in a trade. Theo & Co. should be pro-active in pursuing Villar while also dumping Addison Russell before the December 2nd contract tender deadline.
I think the other Chicago team would claim him long before the Cubs would have the chance. The Sox need a 2b to start the season. If they like him it gives them flexibility to use Madrigal in a trade OR they can use Villar in a trade (and retain part of his salary) when Nick is ready to come up to the big club.
Switch hitter, 28 with power and speed and decent life time hitter for next to nothing. Yup, sign me up. Would make losing Didi a lot more palatable.
Lol wut?
He should be a top target for the Reds. That opens up three options:
1. Make a bigger splash at SS, play Villar at 2B
2. Make a bigger splash at SS and trade Villar again
3. Roll with Villar as starting SS
All of these options would be huge for their 2020 chances.
I agree I’d like to see the Reds scoop him up. But your number 2 above won’t work – the Orioles couldn’t trade him so I don’t think the Reds could.
If he clears waivers, and the Reds sign him to a lower number, they might.
Once his figure is set you can pay some of that in the trade.
look at his numbers before 2019. he got the benefit of a juiced ball. he was basically galvis before then and galvis was basically peraza before the ball
He’s not getting through the A.L. unclaimed.
wv – he’s getting claimed by multiple teams, the league doesn’t matter, and the O’s will trade him to the highest bidder.
If I read the article correctly, a team can claim him and the O’s get nothing back. They tried to trade him but got no takers so put him on outright waivers. The downside of someone claiming him is they’re on the hook for his arbitration salary. If he passes through waivers unclaimed, he becomes a FA and would then have to negotiate on the free market, which would apparently pay less than the arbitration committee would assign. Which then calls into question the validity of the arbitration process…
Great Second Basemen That Giants Can Pick Up
Dubon should be the Giants second baseman
Please, Giants, you have been given the best possible gift for thanksgiving. Take it and forget about finding that super-utility infielder you needed. You’ve got in Dubon and Solano.. Go for it.
Dubon can grow into any of three positions. Short, Second or Third and maybe even Center Field, but for now strike while the iron is hot. The worst outcome is that you have just acquired yourself a switch-hitting super Utility for all infield positions except first.
We need a shortstop or first baseman more than a second baseman. One of Crawford or belt will be traded this offseason so Villar could play short.
Dubon hasn’t earned it with less than 200 at-bats to his name. He can earn it playing as a utility alongside Solano over the next two years when Crawford is gone, Longoria is almost out the door, and Villar does or does not produce.
He would immediately be the Tigers best hitter.
The list of guys that would be the Tigers best hitter is long and varied.
Touche
And this is why the Orioles are in the position there in
They’re rebuilding, no need to waste money on a non-competitive team. So waive him and hope he’s claimed to work out a trade. If not then you’ve saved 10 million you can one day spend on a team that’s actually competitive.
Or, keep him and try to trade him at the trade deadline to a contender that is desperate and willing to pay the remaining balance of his salary.
Then, you run the risk of him not producing at last season’s level, then you’re stuck with a a $10m underperforming middle infielder…
It’s actually smart. They couldn’t get anything for him via trade anyway, and they save money and make their MLB roster slightly worse. A player like him is useless to a rebuilding team. The tank is on.
If they are really tanking, why not just release everyone and forfeit every game so they get the number 1 pick? They save on payroll. They save the fans the misery of seeing these bums play. They get a top pick.
if the wait until midseason and trade him for a prospect, ANY prospect, it would be a far more astute move. Tanking is one thing, stupidity is another
Wow….guess every GM saw what the fans saw…the guy’s level of play is abysmal….
OTOH, if you’re a bit inventive, Villar as a DH who hits leadoff and backs up your middle infielders isn’t horrible….in a 5-7M kind of way……
Wasn’t aware that a player rated with a 4 WAR, 24 home runs and 40 stolen bases is “abysmal”
Abysmal is pushing it. But ask anyone in Milwaukee how much they valued Villar. Or really any other team in the league who didn’t touch him in a trade for essentially nothing. There’s a disconnect between how teams value Villar’s contributions And what his fWAR number says. He’s either the most underrated player in the game or he does a lot of the little things poorly.
A lot of big things too…..
Nobody suspects Elias woke up this morning and wanted to do this; if nothing else, it’s terrible PR. But there’s also little doubt he couldn’t find anybody who valued Villar at anything near 10M a year, all the fWAR in the world notwithstanding.
Free Agency, 6M a year for 2 years, use him as I suggested (DH, backup middle IF). That gives him value. They may have even discussed that role with him, and he objected; it wouldn’t have done his free agency any good.
I watched in Milwaukee and Villar is easily one of the most frustrating players I’ve ever seen. His body language, lack of hustle, and those errors.
@jbigz12
you maybe you just don’t know what you are talking about…ding ding ding…
Pretty good schtick you got going on here. You come in with one liners or “one statters” and don’t have to actually disprove anything said. Keep up the good work.
NO he knows what he is talking about. Villar plays the way he feels and he can get very sensitive. If he isnt happy he becomes a cancer and will pout
no this guy is right on Millard is a guy that only plays good when he’s happy other than that he can be a cancer in your Clubhouse and he pouts a lot.
@bobtillman
your comment is just full of crap, please stop commenting. thanks!
Black Friday has arrived early.
San Diego could use him…
A further depressing of players’ salaries.. Makes sense if you’re and owner: would you pay this guy $10m when you could get Brian Dozier for $3m or Josh Harrison for $1m? You’re not ten and three times likelier to get a good season out of Villar than out of those guys, respectively.
I think it’s far more likely that the Orioles use the money saved and sign a real SS which Villar is not. If no one was interested in trading for him. He does very little for a 60 win team. Alberto is the 2B.
Baltimore is not cutting Villar to use $10M (or anything close to that) to sign another infielder. The move is just to save money.
Agreed.
We don’t have a SS. Some of that money will go to one. I don’t expect the full tab to go to a SS. Possibly Jose Iglesias if he gets non-tendered by the Reds. 5-6 million for a SS I can certainly see. They’ve all but said Richie will be in AAA. There’s no one else in the org that can play SS that’s ML ready.
And I didn’t mean non-tendered. But if the Reds choose not to retain him. I’d imagine we’d sign Iglesias for 4-5 million bucks. He may not even get that much given the lack of need for SS’s around the game.
There is a difference between saving money and not wasting money. This would be wasting it unless the Baltimore fans “love” Villar. The Milwaukee fans did not. I am guessing he didn’t change that much.
He’s a great player in Fantasy lol.
Farhan, your whole infield, minus maybe Dubon, is terrible. This makes way more sense than giving up a pick to grab someone like Ozuna.
Grab Villar AND Ozuna! Both make the Giants better. Villar leads off (plays 2b-Dubon SS); Ozuna bats fourth or fifth.
Pete, So if you were the Giants, you would put Crawford on the bench at 20 million a year ? Good bad or otherwise he has to play the majority of games at SS. Dubon is the future SS, but for now he plays 2b. and relieves Crawford on his days off. Besides all that Villar & Ozuna aren’t the type of players you want to build your team around. Let as many of the kids play so we see what they can do. It’s going to be at least 2 years before we see daylight with the Giants.
Dubon is the future 2B. Luciano is the future SS
Don’t want either of Villar or Ozuna. Yes they are good players, but I would take guys that have a passion for the game and that hustle and give 110%. These two guys have never shown that.
@talking baseball
lol have you watched Villar play? he has a passion for the game.
Oh no, a four win utility infielder might cost a losing team $10MM? Hopefully the Mariners can help those poor, suffering Orioles come to some sort of agreement. Please Mariners; please?
Colon- If BAL couldn’t trade Villar I wonder how that affects Seattle’s plans to move Dee Gordon? Instead of signing Villar I’d much rather get rid of Dee pay rookie wages to Shed Long and save $$ for pitching. Good FA pitching does not come cheaply
If no team would pay 10.5 for Villar they aren’t paying that for Gordon. He’s pretty much immovable. If they pay the deal down to a million bucks or something I’m sure a team will take him. But at that point it’s pretty much a release.
Second baseman are a dime a dozen right now.
4 WAR players aren’t.
Bingo
war is a range stat. it’s not s tell all about a player and sometimes it’s way off like in this case. also he had 1 really good year
He was pretty darn good in 2016, too.
Switch-hitting, second basemen who can hit and play short and third in a crunch are worth a little more.
Solves two problems for Cubs … 2b and leaf off hitter
You like your lead-off hitters with a 25% K rate? May as well just insert Javy in the lead-off spot.
That’d be an improvement over Schwarber.
@ilikebaseball but am overly fixated on K rate…
Villar had a .339 OBP in 2019 so maybe just stop going on about his K rate. I know, I know, it will only be 25% or higher for the remainder of his MLB career because players never improve etc etc
Having a leaf off could come in handy in October
It looks like the Orioles want to arm-wrestle the Tigers for first overall pick! Come on, guys, this is getting really old. Then again Tigers were worst in 2017, Orioles in 2018, Tigers again in 2019; I guess the Orioles figure it’s their turn again.
Yankees…..Cubs……..Padres……..Reds……..Tigers………Giants…..
let the bidding start ! (Villar’s Agent)
4 WAR player for free? The Orioles are imbeciles, there’s tons of injuries in Spring Training, you keep him and trade him and get something back for him. Not this.
I dont believe it’s free. since he is arbitration eligible, O’s get out of it for free and new team has to cover whatever is decided.
Again, this guy proves his incompetence. He’s not free, any claim means he’ll make around 10 million. If he clears and is signed by another club he gets at least 5 to 7 million easily. So no, not free. Smart move by the O’s to get out before his most expensive arb season, especially when we know they are rebuilding.
The point he was trying to make is that the O’s should have kept him until the season and tried to trade him to a contender for prospects. Between injuries and projected starters no meeting expectations, the O’s could have held on to him and traded him for some type of return. Instead they gave him away for no return, hence for free.
The Astros didn’t waive 4 WAR players. Only dumb teams do that.
1 name….J.D. Martinez
What the Orioles (and other rebuilding teams) should be doing is taking on bad contracts in trades and pulling a prospect or two with them. This move makes zero sense.
Because teams are constantly taking on $10m in payroll via ST trades…
I’m surprised nobody wants to trade for someone who can clearly top 20 homers and 40 steals and doubles while playing passable defense up the middle… this franchise is a mess
once with a juiced ball. never came close before and probably wont again
Gotta question what the O’s are doing, honestly
Or you understand this is a cost cutting measure that’s part of rebuilding. This is literally when the Astros and Cubs did the four years prior to their respective competitive windows.
A’s Billy Beane to sign Jonathan Villar ASAP.
I could see it. Disregarding the “A’s looking to cut payroll” nonsense from yesterday, second base was a black hole last year, and they want a left handed bat somewhere.
A’s need a 4+ WAR LHH 2nd baseman, do it Billy
It’s time to stop being cheap. Our door is open to win and now is the time to show the team we are not scared to pay.
People complain about Charlie Finney but he knew when his team was winning he got players to carry the team or the top. If the Dodgers and Expos didn’t open up free agents we would have had atleast 3 to 5 more World Series wins.
Wake up and spend some money. It is not time to be cheap and pass him up.
Blue Jays- flex that financial flexibility. Try Biggio out in CF or make him Ben Zobrist lite
hell, use him to cycle the infielders and a rotating DH.
White Sox and use Madigral as trade bait for Betts?
Not likely that the White Sox would trade Madrigal for one year of Betts. Or was this supposed to be a joke?
Guess they need every penny to (finally!) start making those MASN TV payments to the Nationals. I wonder how much they spent on lawyers fighting that…..
…..and maybe the Nats end up picking up Villar! They do have an opening at 2nd until Carter Kieboom arrives.
I think he’d look real good in a Rays uniform. I’m a jays fan but I think the rays will take a run at him. A perfect player for Tampa.
I suspect there are 10 million reasons this won’t happen
If no on wanted to trade for him then he probably skips through waivers as well.
Sure he had a good season last year but his previous 2 seasons were pretty bad,bad enough that teams won’t want to pay him 10 million in his last year of arbitration.
Orioles fans need to step up their non attendance at games in protest! Unless admission is free, the product is just not worth it…..
Steve is probably more upset than your average orioles fan. I’m really not. If you’re thinking about Elias’ plan and what the goal of these years are you really won’t be. I don’t consider Villar to be an impact player in the slightest. A SS with a good glove will benefit the pitchers more than Villar. If we go into the season with just Richie Martin, then sure I’ll be upset. But if that’s not the case, I’m fine.
Atlanta should have traded for him and then put either him or swanson at 3rd
Stop the nonsense you don’t move Dansby off SS & Villar is not a 3B
He had a bonkers August. Teams are smart enough to see he was a league avg bat and 2-2.5 fWAR player otherwise and in the future.
Could be a decent Righty masher for a smart team at half the arb salary.
come back to Philly! Full circle!
Perfect for Boston if not for Dombrowski.
Solid switch hitter, good speed, decent defense, only downside is his expense, strikeout rate, and low OBP. Still, teams will be all over this guy if i had to imagine.
I guess teams don’t value him as a difference maker in their lineup, but he’ll make a team happy as a bottom of the lineup utility guy who can steal bases and play good defense
I can only assume that a Baltimore Orioles front office meeting is remarkably similar to the opening scene from Major League.
What a nice fit this guy would be as a UT guy for a contender. Personally, I’d like to see him on the Angels. Imagine him hitting leadoff or 9th in front of Trout, Othani and maybe Rendon….
He would be a perfect 9 hitter but how many teams want to pay 10 plus million for a 9 hitter?
Id love to see the Padres get him but would make a lot of sense in Milwaukee at SS if they are ready to move on from Arica.
Have we covered every team scenario yet for Villar?? Please tell me we have.
Milwaukee just traded for Urías to Be a SS
To bad Refsnyder signed that minor league contract with the rangers he could have played in the bigs for the Orioles.
Red Sox could use him for 2B and some OF
Why would you not sign and trade him smh
“…It looks to be a move designed to lose more games next season…”
Hope you can back up that claim. Offseason just got started…
How’s he rate at third base? Honestly, he would be an extreme upgrade over stinky at 2B for the rangers…. or if he can play third a solid option there.
Also: why would teams trade something for him if they know the O’s aren’t going to pay him? Seems like the O’s played their cards incorrectly on this one.
Um well to jump the waiver claim line. That’s not the issue here. It’s that no teams values him at 10MM per year. That’s pretty obvious. Mike Elias would’ve dealt him to anyone just to take him. Putting Villar on outright waivers does nothing positive for the optics of the situation. But when it comes down to having to offer him 10 mil in arb or release him. Well this is the decision you get.
Villar can not play 3B either. He can play 2B halfway passable. And you can play him at Short on occasion but he doesn’t belong there. He hasn’t played the OF in Baltimore but he’s probably capable of playing occasionally in LF.
So you jump the line and have to pay $10m for next year or wait for him to be released and get him for less? Or does the team that signs him if he’s released still have to go through the arb process?
I guess I’m not following, if I’m running a team I am going to wait to see if he goes on the open market, rather than give up anything of value and be locked into his projected salary.
I see what you’re saying. Highly unlikely any team is going to trade for him now. But they’ve been trying to trade him for months. It’s not like they decided to shop him yesterday and put him on waivers today.
Obviously no one is interested. This is really just a formality. If you traded for him youd have to offer him arbitration. It appears no team wants to do that.
WAR,WAR,WAR… when you have a horrible salary with Chris Davis there is no way you pay this much for an OK 2B. Too much to pay for speed. No other team wants him as stated in the opening…
Why not pay $70m instead of $80m for the same 60 win team…
*50 win team
Which Villar will you get….the one who had a career year on the worst team in baseball. Or the .260 career hitter with 15Hrs and 175 K’s per year? Those stats don’t seem to above replacement vale or worth $5-10MM a year.
Makes sense intellectually but sucks emotionally. Teams going out of their way to lose is not fun to watch, it hurts the fan experience.
Does anybody remember how much the Brewers offered him a few years ago? Villar turned it down and bet on himself. I wonder if he regrets that decision.
Obviously he does.
there should be taxes for teams going below lower threshold!
Imagine waiving a player who scored 111 runs! Someone will claim him, but Baltimore will likely get nothing in return, other than minimal cash, as they have no leverage — Villar’s service time lets him reject an assignment and declare free agency.
I really liked Villar. Beside from his boneheaded base running and poor glove work he was a good hitter in our lineup. I don’t understand this move at all. I just think it’s Angelos trying to save money at age 90! Please sell the team!
Serenity now…. insanity later
If no team will take him for free that tells you one thing. 10.5 Mm per year is above what the market believes he’s worth. If we were fighting for October you might be inclined to pay the extra couple million bucks and keep the squad together. But on a rebuilding club? No one would touch the guy in a trade. I don’t understand the hate for the Orioles on this. Hate everyone in Major League Baseball who didn’t want him for 10.5 MM bucks while you’re at it.
Villar has been determined to not be worth 10.5 MM. that’s just what it is. IMO a SS who can play plus defense would help the young pitchers a whole lot more and cost a whole lot less. I’ll be pretty mad if they go into the season w Richie Martin.
I’m hoping we do spend some of the saved money on bounce back pitchers and a legitimate SS. No issues w not spending it here though.
It’s one thing to take on $10.5MM of an expected arbitration salary. It’s another matter when also having to surrender assets while assuming those dollars. Perhaps the teams who were discussing a trade with the Orioles felt their desperation in trying to move Villar by the December 2nd contract tender deadline and believe they are better served snagging him as free agent.
It would surprise no one if Villar actually came away with a 2020 contract in the neighborhood of that $10.5MM figure, especially with numerous suitors in the mix for him. Why surrender assets when he can be had for just cash?
How does your logic make sense? The orioles would’ve taken anything for him. They’re going to release him for nothing. Every team in baseball who is interested now has to compete against each other to get him.
So yes it would shock me if gets more than 10.5 a year. If it doesn’t shock you I’m not sure why. If you were comfortable with a 1/10.5 for Villar you’d simply give the orioles “cash considerations” or a non prospect to be named later today. It makes absolutely no sense to wait. They clearly don’t think Villar is worth his arb salary.
Why would you potentially end up in a bidding war when you could give up something so insignificant to get him right now?
The O’s should have traded him while taking on ~8M of his salary to get a solid prospect. They can clearly afford it, and at this point they need their hands on all of the talent they can get. They shouldn’t be giving a top 3 player on their roster away for free, even if he has his warts.
I posed that very question a few days ago and it appears the answer was no, the Orioles didn’t want to buy a prospect in a Villar deal.
Why would you take on 8 million dollars in salary for a prospect? They could go out and sign 10 million dollars worth of players at market value and try to flip them at the deadline. I don’t think it ever makes sense to pay a guy to what you know is over market value.
I’d just as soon sign say 2 bounce back relief candidates and a bounce back SP for slightly more than that guarantee. Odds are you’d be able to flip them for better prospects at the deadline and it might actually help your team a little this year.
I get your guys point but I think there’s a better way of doing it.
Marlins should put waiver claims on him asap. Win/win.
He would be a really nice pickup for a contender as a utility guy, specifically up the middle. There are a lot of cheap 2B options out there so he may have hard time finding a lucrative deal. I could see him go to another rebuilding club like the Tigers, where he could play regularly and test the market again next year.
These O’s ain’t loyal.
This doesn’t make sense a to me. Worst case keep him tell deadline day, i realize they “couldn’t” trade him last TD day bit im sure they were offered something. Weather its someone over age playing A+ ball or int’l spending money at least they would get something. Most likely some team will have an injury up the middle and pay something decent for him if he has a similar year. I dont know much about the NL but i feel like any NL team could use him in the playoffs double switches and stuff
Cleveland has a hole at 2B that he’d fill nicely…
Braves should make an offer for Mancini now that O’s need an infielder. How about Mancini for Camargo, Dunn and mid-tier pitching prospect?
Twins should claim him and add him in a package with Rosario that defrays his cost to get an arm or two.
Wow. What a terrible organization..
Well, I applied over there a couple months ago. Their loss. 🙂
Not even a free giveaway every hone game will bring back there loyal fans, and rightly so.
108 losses wasn’t bad enough lol.
He makes a lot of mistakes on the basepaths and the Orioles have to start paying down the Masn dispute
Cubs, Reds, Red Sox, Mets should sign Villar in a 1 or 2 year contract and 7 million per season
Really doesn’t make much sense to let a guy like Villar go for nothing. Even if there’s no interest in him now, it’d be worth holding onto him in order to potentially flip him prior to the deadline.
Red Sox need him
Red Sox have a similar Public Relations nightmare:
Villar: age 28, 5.11 service time, 12.1 WAR
JBJ: age 29, 5.15 service time, 15.0 WAR
Ain’t nobody claiming that Villar’s in-game skills are in the same galaxy as JBJ’s. Bloom prays nightly (probably daytime too) that somebody, ANYBODY, offers something for JBJ and stops the PR disaster that non-tendering him will be.
What a nice Christmas present from the O’s to Villar.
They did him a favor, he’ll leave that horrible squad latch on with a team with a shot and still get paid.
Depending on how much he winds up being able to get on the FA market — if the price is right he could be a nice relatively low-cost pickup for the Red Sox to play 2B. (And if they do end up moving Betts that would give them a viable leadoff hitter replacement – obviously not anywhere near the offensive player Betts is – but in terms of a leadoff guy he’s pretty solid). if he can be had for $5M or so as an AAV that could work out for Boston. Of course given that he was set to earn $10+M via arbitration there’s a chance he could be seeking/and get more than $5 or so though that remains to be seen.
There has to be more to this story. This doesn’t make sense. For perspective,
J. Villar- .274/.339/.453, 107 wRC+, 4 fWAR
Machado- .256/.334/.462, 108 wRC+, 3.1 fWAR
I know they are not the same. However, even if Villar is 20% worse, or about as valuable as 2019 Maxhado next season, he would still be worth the contract.
Os are cost cutting
Look at Villar’s previous two season to 2019,that’s why teams are leery of paying him 10 million.
Jay’s should sign him and dump Drury
So glad I’m not an Orioles fan, I’d be steaming mad right now. If anyone believes the notion that $10M is too big a salary to keep on a payroll with those type of numbers, than you’re not really looking! Sure 27 HRs isn’t crazy this day and age but 40 SBs in 49 attempts not to mention a ton of 2Bs and 3Bs and passable defense? If the Tigers were smart they’d scoop him up and pray for similar output, b/c I can guarantee that will be coveted at the trade deadline from just about any franchise! Shame on the Orioles! This is simply telling your fan base BEFORE XMAS that you are going to do your very best to be the very worst this year! Atleast Al Avila tries to hide the fact that their tanking! You guys can’t even do that well! Wow…
Switch-hitting, second basemen who can hit and play short and third in a crunch are worth a little more.
Giants, fill a need and get Akiyama to finish out a 1,2 punch at the plate on a daily basis followed by Yaz, Dickerson, Longoria and the other fading crew on the tail end.
I can’t even believe this. He will be signed fast and I hope the Marlins get him and Greg brig
Even in a rebuild, you gotta tender this guy. They have the financial pieces to carry him. Even if he didn’t have a trade partner right now, a reasonable year should get him a trade partner at the deadline. And if he sucks, then let him go then. The $10.4M is a worthy gamble to have the potential for an asset return at the deadline for a team that won’t attract one year free agent stop gaps any way.
Why? 2b is one of the least in demand positions in baseball. If no teams wants him now why the hell would you commit to paying over market value? They can take that 10.5 million dollars and go sign players for market value to flip at the deadline. You can sign multiple Pitchers coming off down years or an injury with that money.
Because if Villar can creep up above .280 and over .340 OBP with an OPS around .800, a team with injuries will consider acquiring Villar. JFactor’s point was to take a gamble on Villar. The gamble is to hope Villar builds his numbers, thus become attractable.
Whine about “over market value” all you want. O’s are better off rolling the dice and keeping Villar hoping he can put up a solid year. The team should be able to pick up a couple arms for cheap AND keep Villar. Delete your account.
Villar is a terrible SS. Alberto is the 2B. The orioles would have to play Villar’s bad D at SS to accommodate him. There’s no reason to do that and pay 10.5 million dollars. I won’t bother to give out any statistics why Villar looks like a guy who maxed out numbers last year because I know how that goes with you.
You still get something out of this exchange by the continual need to comment on my posts. I do not. You don’t want me to really delete my account because you enjoy this. Whether you want to admit it or not. Feel free to comment elsewhere. There’s no need for this to continue.
baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/jonathan-vill…
But for Jfactor. Peruse the page. I’ve seen you utilize advanced stats before. They’re telling you Villar isn’t anywhere near as good as the numbers said in 2019. 30 MLB teams aren’t colluding. They don’t find his worth to be 10.5 MM. I’d much rather sign guys who are coming off down years who might actually generate surplus value at that time of the year.
Villar was making half as much last year as he was projected to make in arb this year. Only 1 team was interested—the Cubs. They decided to go in another direction. I just don’t see the point in hoping for blind luck to happen at a 10.5 MM price tag.
Freddy Galvis got put on waivers last year. Every AL team passed. They could’ve had him for free. Why would you hope that this year will be any different? There’s no reason to think Villar can be better. The numbers would suggest he’ll be worse.
And if we actually are talking about the Orioles future, a good defensive SS would help the young arms a lot more than Villar.
Excellent team player. Don’t like to see him go, but any O’s fan like myself that gets upset about losing a 1 year $10M player at this stage in the rebuild is strange. He won’t be here in 4 years, so why pay him $10M for 2020? Going to lose 100 games either way. Go Birds.
Wow and I thought the Mets made bad moves Baltimore needs a new owner
He passes through waivers, elects free agency, O’s sign him for less. Noobs!