They’re throwing a Marte party in the desert. The Diamondbacks on Monday acquired center fielder Starling Marte from the Pirates in a blockbuster trade that saw shortstop prospect Liover Peguero, young righty Brennan Malone and $250K in international money go to Pittsburgh in return. Arizona now happens to have the top two Martes in the majors in Starling and Ketel Marte, the Diamondbacks’ primary center fielder from 2019 who broke out as a star and will now occupy second base most of the time.
For the Diamondbacks, an 85-win team from last year that’s trying to give the Dodgers a better fight in the NL West, the addition of Starling Marte is the latest win-now move in an offseason packed with them. The D-backs’ previous pickups came via the open market, where they signed left-hander Madison Bumgarner, right fielder Kole Calhoun, relievers Hector Rondon and Junior Guerra, and catcher Stephen Vogt.
There are concerns with Marte’s game, including iffy defensive metrics, a past PED suspension and a career-long aversion to drawing walks. Still, he’s unquestionably one of the most valuable center fielders in the sport. The 31-year-old has accounted for at least 3.0 fWAR in each of his six full seasons, and is coming off his second straight 20-20 effort. Marte posted a .295/.342/.503 line with 23 home runs and 25 stolen bases across in 586 trips to the plate.
Of course, we’d be remiss not to mention that Marte’s contract only makes him more appealing from Arizona’s standpoint. He’ll earn a fairly economical $11.5MM this year and could make $12.5MM next season if the Diamondbacks exercise his club option in lieu of a $1MM buyout. Assuming Marte continues his steady production in 2020, picking up that option will be a no-brainer for the team.
In Pittsburgh’s case, Marte’s age, waning control and the Pirates’ rebuilding status all combined to send him out of the Steel City after months of trade rumors. It was an understandable decision on new Pirates general manager Ben Cherington’s part to cash in the Marte chip, though there’s dissatisfaction in Pittsburgh that the team’s ultra-low payroll shrunk even more as a result of the deal. The Pirates could put at least some money back into their roster by finding a Marte replacement before the season, which is Cherington’s plan, but they’re unlikely to find a player of his caliber.
Regardless of how the Pirates’ payroll looks in the wake of Marte’s exit, the club did land a couple promising farmhands in Peguero and Malone. Both 19-year-olds are a ways away from major league opportunities, having not gotten past the low-A level yet, but they were seen as two of Arizona’s most intriguing prospects. Two months ago, FanGraphs’ Eric Longenhagen and Kiley McDaniel ranked Peguero fifth in the Diamondbacks’ system, comparing him to former D-back Jean Segura. The flamethrowing Malone checked in at No. 10 on the list, meanwhile, with Longenhagen and McDaniel writing that the 33rd overall pick from last year’s draft has “a mid-rotation starter look.”
Thanks to the youth of Peguero and Malone, we’ll have to wait for a while to see how this trade pans out. At first glance, though, how do you like it for both teams? Weigh in below …
(Arizona poll link for app users)
Grade the Marte trade for Arizona
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B 45% (8,203)
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A 40% (7,297)
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C 11% (2,052)
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D 2% (421)
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F 2% (358)
Total votes: 18,331
(Pittsburgh poll link for app users)
Grade the Marte trade for Pittsburgh
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C 34% (5,752)
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B 29% (4,951)
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D 17% (2,850)
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A 12% (2,103)
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F 8% (1,360)
Total votes: 17,016
Arizona absolutely fleeced Pittsburgh. Two low level prospects that likely won’t make it for several seasons, if at all or be apart of a Trivial Pursuit answer.
U have no clue about baseball and not a fan just like 2 complain 4 years pirates took almost in the majors but average players this time they got top high ceilings guys and still fans like u complain this is what good teams do not going say pirates are going to keep doing right thing but this trade was a good start
I try but fail understand ur English very bad
2 complaints in 4 years isnt that much…
Using numbers to replace words automatically discredits anything else in your post.
20th century posting habits likewise discredits anything you post.
Twentieth LOL
Twenty-first. Twentieth century posting habits evolved from word of mouth and leafleting to answering machine messages and faxes.
This is the internet, grow up about syntax on it, it doesn’t matter. Cu L8r kid.
+jleve
spell “icup” out loud
Punctuation. It’s not a sin.
Punctuation: It’s More Than Periods
Peguero had 30 errors in 799 IPs so far. That’s worrisome. Brennan was a #33 pick with no history to comment on. Since Marte might be a QO, it feels like PT got little more than they would have gotten through the QO
From my perspective, consider how Marte compares to Betts. Betts is abviously better than Marte, but how much better is Betts, for one season, than Marte for two seasons. Again, I think everyone would prefer Betts, but Betts is going to garner a lot more on paper than PT just did.
In addition, since SD is looking for a CF, I wonder if PT ever inquired about a Marte for Myers ++ swap. PT’s salary is about half what it use to be, especially if Vazquez is suspended without pay. If PT added Myers, their payroll would still be under $80M, and they could’ve landed someone like Campusano or more.
teams owned by bob Nutting dont squire salary, they dump it. ever pirate fan knows any marte trade would only involve prospects
with club control…Jerry Dipoto taught Seattle fans that.
Just dump everybody. Nutting will look to create even more wealth. He has isn’t interested in winning a World Series. Players get drafted and when they are ready to get compensated they will be traded to a team willing to pay. The viscous cycle in Pittsburgh will continue. Hope MLB likes this business model.
High ceiling maybe but they are low minor league level players that are 18. Statistics show that neither is likely to make an impact at the MLB level.
One of the two players was a 1st rd draft pick in the 2019 out of high school. Statistics for the last 20 yrs show that the majority of 1st rounders get at least “a cup of coffee” in the mlb. In addition approximate 65% have a MLB career of 6 seasons or more.
Statistics show that all current major leaguers were once 18.
Love that comment!
Actually Doc, they are 19 and statistics show they probably will make it to the majors…unless one always looks at glasses that are half empty.
Retired MLB player, Terrence Long of the A’s, has yet to see his 18th birthday. #moneyball
Terrence Long = leap day baby
I disagree. He was worth at least a teams top 5 prospect.
Why did the Pirates rush or settle with this trade then? They could have waited up until the trade deadline.
Was he really worth a top 5 prospect to the Pirates?
Malone has 8IP of proball got to low A last season. Screams top prospect.
Peguero has 410PAs struggled hard in a small sample when promoted to low A, also has less than inspiring stats at his primary position. Must be a top prospect!
They may have tools but really they haven’t shown much to support their prospect status.
low floor high ceiling types, and with those types there is a greater chance to fall apart.
Don’t get me wrong, decent valued prospects, but as of now they are just farm building to possibly swap in the nearish future for positions of need…. or at least I hope so. I don’t know if i can take another four years of this.
Then don’t… A 3-5 year rebuild can be tough to stomach. i Really can’t defend the broken landscape that is major league baseball.
but if your overly concerned with a SS error’s in A-ball that shows you have absolutely no understanding of the score keeping between the different levels. Maybe look up Cole Tucker’s errors in the lower level’s etc. Pretty common place..
U have no clue about baseball and not a fan just like 2 complain 4 years pirates took almost in the majors but average players this time they got top high ceilings guys and still fans like u complain this is what good teams do not going say pirates are going to keep doing right thing but this trade was a good start
I’m genuinely intrigued how Pitt fans really feel… on the one hand I guess you need to restart the farm somewhere but on the other I see 2 young lottery tickets that are years and years away… for Marte. They must really like these 2 guys up in the FO
In my opinion as a pirates fan is that this is a move in the right direction. The guy is 31, how many more years of CF does he have left? He wouldn’t be around when this team is strong again. Yep the prospects are a gamble but so is keeping gambling that a 31 year old CF who had a great season will continue to keep that pace and his value as is
World series or bust, would I have liked one more lottery ticket, or dbacks compensatory pick, absolutely.. but mostly happy with the trade. Marte money can now be reallocated, we have yet to see what they do with the international money but I’m hopeful.
Echoing previous comments I’d rather have low level high ceiling players, then Huntingtons preference for near major league no ceiling players.
As a Pirates fan, I don’t hate this trade but I don’t love it either. I feel like the Pirates should have gotten a little bit more. Though I’m excited to add to watch Malone and Priester come up together. I don’t mind the rebuild, actually makes for a better environment at PNC Park. Yinzers for the most part are not good baseball fans.
Entering a rebuild, the Archer trade becomes worse and worse kinda makes me sick.. if the owner had infused a little cash when needed then not that big a deal.
But since he’s tearing it all down, (prob the right choice) it makes me ill. Like glassnow should’ve been untouchable and Baz would’ve been nice to have with priester, Cruz, and malone, they just have to keep adding projectable pitching and hopefully cream rises to the top.. like they need to be treating it like nuclear arm race with the Soviets and keep stock piling arms.. it’s our only hope in the broken landscape of baseball.
Reynolds and Rivero had pretty high ceilings. If you like ceilings, meet Oneill Cruz.
The Cole trade (and Bay a long time ago) meets that description but that’s mostly a lazy narrative.
Huntingdon’s job was to keep the thing coasting on fumes for as many miles as he could. Nutting only allowed a rebuild once attendance bottomed out and he realized he could run $50 million payrolls for the next few years.
I certainly prefer this to trading a higher value asset (Cole) for near majors mediocrity. I would like if these guys were a year closer but they might be on top 100 lists by then and be hard to obtain.
I’d grade this out as a B minus for the Bucs.
But you gave away a legitimate MLB player, on a good contract…for 2 19 year olds. I can’t help but think you might have received a better deal elsewhere. Another thought: deals like this will become more uncommon if the MiLB system is reorganized. More development will take place in academies rather than fields, so prospects will be harder to judge.
Do you not understand that major league ready mediocrity that you would have gotten to replace him would have been useless to a rebuilding team. This was the wisest thing Cherington could have done. They released the contract liability over two years of non contention for two high ceiling prospects… that is good. They find a much less expensive stop gap OF (not hard to find as it is a deep position) or allow in house players to develop.
So breaking it down…
Arizona (who can compete) gave us two high ceiling prospects to add to our depleted farm system for a player who, in theory, is useless to us at this point. Is he worthless? Absolutely not. But to us Pirates, he wasn’t going to win it all by himself. Other teams know that too.
We needed guys a years away that could be impact players. Not middling to Quad A talent that adds zero value to the organization.
As another Pirates fan… I feel like this is exactly what Cherington needed to do. And probably could do. Every team in the league had to know the Pirates were selling from a massive position of weakness.
They lost their most valuable trade chip (Let’s call him Pedophile McGee) in the same disastrous year that landed half the team on IL at one point or another. The roster looked like a advertisement for the Red Cross. Their second best reliever (let’s call him Not Good Enough to be The Jag That He Is), splits his time between fighting in the clubhouse and inflating opposing batters OPS. Our ace… gone for at least another year due to a second TJ surgery. The stars we developed were clearly not properly coached or supported at the MLB in a proper fashion (Glasnow, Cole, Morton, Meadows) so they were traded for a bag of pierogies and a couple cases of IC Light… then we watched them turn into 3 CY young Candidates (IMMEDIATELY upon leaving).
The combination of a poor current player environment, a series of very bad decisions, and just plain bad luck has ruined current team chemistry and decimated the once strong farm system. And Cherington did EXACTLY what he needed to do. Pittsburgh lost nothing in this deal and gained potential. Starling Marte is a very good useful player but was no longer useful to this Pirates team. And when you’re selling from that position of weakness, other teams are savvy enough to know they don’t need to give you much more than exactly what they got. He did what he could. And this is way better than nothing or Quad A talent.
It’s been a rough road for us Pirates supporters who grew up watching them our entire lives and are true fans of the game.
What’s really difficult is knowing the players and fans deserve better effort. I hope Cherington gives us that. I like Derek Shelton already. But remember there will only be so much these guys can do as the years progress if the owner won’t allow SOME payroll flexibility. Just some. Be small market, that’s what you are. But some.
The average payroll in MLB is a little over 128,000,000.
The Pirates currently sit around 45 million.
They’ve been close 100 million once during the wild card years.
So yes, if the owner won’t invest properly in the team, the new GM did exactly what he needed to do here.
Cherington did EXACTLY what he needed to do. Pittsburgh lost nothing in this deal and gained potential.
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Kind of meaningless. I could’ve traded them for potential. It’s a question of how much potential they traded for.
Do you know what was offered to them that the rest of us here are not privy to knowing?
Would love to know what you could have done. And I disagree that this is meaningless in 4 or 5 years. There’s a big picture here. And when your organization is in massive distress, you need to begin somewhere. This is somewhere. Nowhere would have been doing nothing.
I think they took the best deal possible.
Maybe we can get Pirates payroll to point that players are paying Nutting to audition for their next Team.
Well they absolutely should be pointing it out and trying to get options out of guys they are offering to showcase,and other team aren’t. If they think could be worth something with a little spotlight.
Let’s see how low the final 2020 Pirates payroll will be. My guess Nutting would love to be around 25 mil. So he can continue to take $$ from fans believing in any future.
Your writing is an “art” form.
This is literally nonsense. Neither prospect is a “lotto ticket.” Malone was a 1st rounder out of IMG and Peguero is a 19 year old who has a 50 FV grade already by fangraphs. Because neither one of these guys cracked MLB.com’s almighty “top 100” list you think Pitt got fleeced….
Cherington is shooting for ceilings. Which is smart. Pittsburgh needs a total rebuild. It won’t be fast. It won’t be easy. Getting guys with lower ceilings isn’t really smart right now. You should’ve been pissed if they traded Marte for a package similar to Moran, Musgrove, and Michael Feliz… Not this.
Musgrove alone has well more value than these two. even if its a matter of current vs future assets, someone like that could simply be re-flipped to another team.
Flipped for what? Prospects? Other ML players? I dont see what you’re getting at. In no way does Musgrove hold more value to a rebuilding team than two young, high ceiling prospects.
@jbigz12–Jonathan Mayo was talking about this deal yesterday. He is the guy that puts the top 100 together for MLB Pipeline. He liked the deal. Said he really likes Malone and thinks Peguero is going to be a very good player. Said he Liked what the Pirates got for Marte. Therefore, I agree with you in what you say. He was talking like these two will be in the top 100 when the next update to the list is done.
May as well just cancel the MLB draft since all of those guys are low level prospects who most likely won’t make it…
Yeah I just don’t get it. These are highly considered low level prospects. The idiocy from people around here is crazy. There’s obviously more risk the lower the level the player is but these guys have the potential ceiling to compensate for that risk.
Marte wasn’t going to bring a Gavin Lux or Mackenzie Gore back. It was likely a lower ceiling-close to the majors top 100 guy or these kind of prospects. These are two guys who could realistically be on top 100 lists next year. Not a bad gamble by Cherington
The local Pittsburgh fans have heard the constant drum beat of negative reaction to anything and everything that the Pirates have done for several years now including primarily now cheap the team is and that is how every move is now looked at in their eyes as that is how they view every thing now. Surprisingly the radio talk guys are speaking well of this deal. Even defending it to callers. You are right. Marte would not have brought any better back. The national guys are liking the deal based on what Marte is now and not what he was 2-3 years ago. Fans always think teams are like they were 25 years ago and paying for what a player did over the career as opposed to what the player can do tor them now and in the near future. That is why the FA market really changed. The market still is tighter than what it was but it looks more loose because there were more higher value players available this year than there were last year. I like what the Bucs did here.
Low level prospects? lol, I enjoy reading the comments for the comedy.
I don’t believe those 2 are even considered prospects, horrible move by the Pirates, yet again.
You believe wrong according to the guy that produces the MLB Pipeline Top 100…… they were in the top `10 of a deep Arizona minor league system……..you might wanna research just a little before you post……
I sure as heck would’ve preferred something like this for the Cole trade
Not just two prospects, but also 250k in international bonus pool money which can easily get you two pretty good international prospects. S. Marte himself signed for less than 100k in 2007.
They know their stuff better than ever. These two will both probably make it and contribute in meaningful ways. Marte isn’t being traded at the right time, had Pittsburg done better in offloading two or three players at peak value you’d see a dramatically better product on the field.
I think he’s right. Pittsburgh got taken in this deal.
That’s straight up crazy talk. This is about as good as it gets for Marte. Would one like another lotto prospect rather than international money? Sure, but nobody got fleeced. This is a solid trade for both sides.
According to baseball trade values, the pirates Got more value. Imo, win win for both teams. Lots of risk with what the pirates got, but a whole lot of upside. We can be sitting here 10 years from now talking about how the pirates fleeced the d backs, or simply the pirates gave up marte for nothing. We will wait and see.
can we stop quoting baseball trade values? its not like GMs use that site to formulate their trades, and its not like it isnt terribly wrong sometimes.
Stop posting trade values and focus on feelings?
Or don’t comment at all if you have no idea. These are two prospects with extremely high ceilings. This is a great deal from Pittsburgh perspective. They’re nowhere close to being competitive. After the Vazquez suspension, this team was completely sunk. They desperately need as much upside as they can get in the organization. Marte wasn’t going to be there to help. They got a lot for him.
AZ has a deep farm. They had a ton of money in the draft last year and they’re using some of that to cash in now.
Arizona could potentially be big losers of this deal if both those guys hit their ceilings. Obviously Pittsburgh could be if both wash out but it’s unlikely that Marte ever hits another gear. So it’s pretty certain as to what they gave up. Anyone thinking this was a fleece job was purely focusing on Marte. It wasn’t that at all.
I find it interesting that we’re trying to evaluate a trade that from Pittsburgh’s perspective at least, won’t be measurable for years and then can only realistically be examined fairly by Ben and his staff who can compare it to other offers that were received.
How dare trade site analyze trade!?!?
Just because you can Reanalyze something in 5 years doesn’t mean it’s futile it discuss how it looks currently
It looks good for Pittsburgh currently. Anybody saying how awful it looks is talking right out of their behind.
A skill I would like to learn.
I’m thinking these guys will be Pittsburgh’s #2 behind Cruz and #5-7 prospect by the end of the season.
Trades involving MLB players or those where there is more meat on the bone so to speak is fine. Argue all you want about whether AZ should have acquired Marte for this year but don’t grade the trade from the Pirates viewpoint unless you believe he should still be a Pirate. It’s too early to opine on the players received especially when we don’t know the other offers.
“won’t be measurable for years ”
Sure, that’s exactly what the comment board is for. There isn’t much fun in having a discussion about ‘Trout was a good pick @ # 18’.
The site reports all transactions but trying to evaluate the return the Pirates got back now is like using your first pair of glasses to read the paper.
That should about cinch 100 losses for the Buccos.
Some of us Pirate fans had our sights a bit too high. Marte defense showing some decline, but I like the trade. The prior GM would have looked for serviceable MLB ready players. If one of these two is a flop and the other a 3-4 WAR guy I will take that. Poor drafting / development required this extreme approach. Now if some of old Buc fans live long enough to see this bear fruit…
@ Bob
Agree – the Pirates are a while (2/3 years?) away from contention. They can save $25 million over two seasons for a (declining?) Marte, add two decent if not blue chip prospects and use the savings to pick up five or six free agents at $4 million each for the coming season or two or three over two seasons.
Wish the Bucs all the best – it’s a great ball park (though it can be bloody freezing in Sept night games!) and a great City.
Yeah, would rather have distant lottery picks than AAAA talent and maybe one major league guy like NH usually received.
Bucs should target Pillar and Pence and I’d actually still like our OF.
All part of Cherington’s tanking plan. He is rebuilding. and needs to trade assets for lottery tickets.
Neither of the guys he traded for will likely reach the majors but that is not the issue. He is trying to fill the organization with high ceiling lottery tickets and taking a very longterm who cares about winning now attitude.
Pittsburgh is in for years of mediocrity just like the Jays. Cherington joined the Jays in 2016, coincidently just as the Jays started deceiving the fans that they were trying to be competitive when in actual fact they started their rebuild then. They wanted to keep fans in the seats. They didn’t call it a rebuild then because of money.
It’s not likely the fans will hear the word rebuild for the same reasons, but know, just know that Pittsburgh days of being competitive are over for at least 5 years.
Long winded nonsense.
Just really stupid too. Everyone in that division is going for gold right now. The Reds are setting themselves up to have little payroll flexibility in the coming years. The Cubs have an aging roster and a weak farm. The Brewers are nearing the end of Yelich in a few seasons. The cardinals are just pretty well ran but that’s always the case.
Small market teams have to pick and choose their window. The Pirates should absolutely be getting a head start on their rebuild. The Pirates trying to compete right now would be the idiotic move.
I’m going to let you in on a little secret—Pitt’s been trying the strategy you like to praise so much. They’ve been trying to win with an inferior roster. They tried to patch up holes. They traded for lower ceiling prospects who were close to the majors. It didn’t work.
It didn’t work because the Pirates had incompetent people making those decisions. The strategy is good, the implementation was terrible.
I have no idea what the market is, but Bell should be next. I wonder if there has been any movement?
1B is pretty deep across the league with several serviceable options. Bell won’t bring the return they are seeking until he has a “prove it” season. Needs to repeat last year’s first half success and then he can be moved. And at that point, needs to be. He’s a Boras client and won’t be extended or resigned.
Way too soon to say Pitt lost this deal. Let’s check back in 5 years. That was the purpose of this deal. This trade helps both teams.
Yes but it helps Pittsburgh more and sooner.
Maybe. This is like Price Is Right; always want to be under.
How the hell can you grade 2 19 year olds. Buccos werent going anywhere, with or without marte. These 2 kids are likely to contribute by 2023. So you yinzer trolls should be quiet
you do realize not all high-ceiling 19 year olds even make it to the Majors, right?
This is exactly the type of talent the bucs should have pursued- I think one additional top 30 prospect from Arizona’s system would have really made it even however they went for intl cash.
As usual all outlets and comments underestimate Marte who is an outstanding player.
Reminds me of how same thing was happening when Gerrit Cole was traded and universally people were calling him a no 3 starter and that the Astros return was a good return. Trust me I’ve been following Marte since he was a teenager. Arizona will LOVE this guy he is such an exciting player with a cannon for an arm and easy power and legit speed on D and on the bags.
Bucs will also not be as bad as people think- there is talent on this team. Depth is the problem for sure, so health is critical.
Malone is likely a few years from elbow surgery and Liover hasnt exactly shown anything yet outside of the GCL. lets see if these two can climb the latter before saying they will surely be impact players for the Pirates. i feel like this trade was a reach for sure.
“He’s a few years from elbow surgery”. Alright, great take.
You’re right. It’s a great take for sure. Especially when he wants then to climb a latter. Not sure how you even do that.
Dark side. You should step into the sunlight. Your braid is turning into a peanut
Sorry darkside to burst your glass-half-empty rants, but please infuse facts into your posts instead of mis-information. Peguero has never played in the GCL. Maybe your team’s players go through that league, but Dbacks minor league affiliates are in the Pioneer League, which is where Peguero played part of last year.
2 years of an aging Marte isn’t that much. Good trade by Pittsburgh. Now they need to develop these players and hope for good health.
As a Pirate fan, I’d rather have two high-ceiling, 19-year-old prospects than the kind of return that Neal Huntington acquired for Garrett Cole: Joe Musgrove, Colin Moran, Michael Feliz, and Jason Martin.
The players acquired for Cole were major league ready, or near so, but their ceilings were average. That might work well for a contender (which Huntington may have seen the Pirates as still being), but it doesn’t get a rebuilding team anywhere.
i know in hindsight that trade wasn’t that good, but given they probably got at least a nice middle starter, 4th OF, and infielder from the trade its not too bad.
I don’t think the Cole trade was a bad one. Cole had just finished a mediocre season and the Pirates acquired players who looked like average major leaguers and the Pirates were not far removed from being contenders.
But with the team now clearly needing to rebuild, I believe it was best to trade Marte for high-ceiling low minor league prospects than to get major league ready players with average potential.
Solid trade..pirates staring up at 4 teams who all are good enough to be above 500 teams and they are no where close why not sell off a 31 years old centerfielder who can’t help you enough to be a contender..imo barring some crazy spending spree in f.a anytime soon they are 3 to 4 years away might as well help the cause.
Yeah. Hearing a lot of crap from friends about how they are giving up on the season. Truth is, they gave up on these seasons long ago when they didn’t do anything after 2016 or foolishly gave up too much for Archer. Should have really pushed the reset button a few years ago.
Lots of fans don’t understand this. Same as with Machado & Donaldson a few years ago. The season is already over. All that is left is whether of not you are getting the 5th pick or the 10th pick, and are you going to better or worse in 2024.
If you aren’t going to compete, get rid of everyone that is not in your competitive window. Still think they could’ve done better, but Marte had to go, along with Bell, Polanco, Kela, Taillon, etc., as they get healthy
I don’t hate the return, but I feel they could have gotten a little bit more out of Marte.
I agree. But that additional piece would probably have been more like filler given the upside of these two young prospects. Maybe a near ML ready swingman type like Kuhl or Brault. So not really a big deal to me.
I mean, don’t get me wrong. Young and talented shortstop and a first round pick is a decent, but I think they could have squeezed at least one top 100 prospect out of Marte.
This is the kind of thinking that is just wrong. These prospects can be more valuable than a top 100 prospect. There’s many guys in the bottom third of that top 100 list in the upper minors that have lower ceilings than guys you’ll find off the list. Proximity is a big deal in all those lists. You can have a great trade without getting guys on that list.
For example A prospect ranked 90 who is the rookie league has a much higher ceiling than the guy who is ranked 76th in AAA. They just got two high potential, top 10 D’backs prospects. FG’s slapped a 45+ and a 50 FV on these guys at 19. They’re quality prospects.
Look at the deal the Dodgers made last year for Josiah Gray and Jeter Downs. Both of those guys are now considered top 70 prospects in the game now with momentum to climb higher. This deal has that kind of upside.
The LAD was flatout robbery from the start. For the salaries of Puig, Kemp & Wood, less Baily, LAD shouldn’t have gotten anyone back.
Past that, Jeter & Downs were a little more advanced.
Sure a little bit. Gray was plucked right out of Rookie ball by the Dodgers though. He’s risen fast and was obviously a little more developed being a CC arm. Downs was 19 years old from A ball. Neither was in high A Ball.
I wasn’t comping it as a total value trade. The Dodgers deal was obviously a coup. I was just stating that the return for the Pirates could easily parallel what the Dodgers have seen.
Could be, could not be. I think both have top 100 potential, but I would have like to get at least one guy who we knew for sure was a top 100 prospect.
I can’t believe Cherington could not get a better return from the Mets, Cubs or the Rangers, all teams starving for CF help. Two propects that are so far away is a disappointing return for your best player.
For Az case, I’m always a fan of trading super young talent for mlb stars today. There is no telling if those guys will pan out and likely won’t. So I think they did well. For Pitt, nice add on… time is on your side, cause you’re a ways away from contending. You need to stock up on talent and build them up the right way
Agreed
I don’t understand what all the fuss is about? You guys are being way too harsh on the grading scale here. Can we get one of our sabermetric interns throw a Josh Bell Curve in here, or how am I gonna try to explain mediocrity again to the fans? Look, this isn’t easy. All of that International Money is going directly to trying to build the first Winter Ski Resort on Grenada. The snow is melting Linda! Someone get me a Gin Fizz!
This photoshop is always horrible
MLBTR needs to hire the “low talker” to handle all their photoshop needs! This guy is a blue chip photo editor!
“FREE JOSH BELL 2020 !!”
Maybe in the summer, his value isn’t that high yet. He’s only had one great year and he struggled a lot in the 2nd half.
Don’t overlook Cherington’s key words- we need to take chances. There are no guarantees with young prospects, but in order to have a promising future you’ve got to have them, lots of them. The reality for the Pirates is they are sorely lacking, even after this trade. Marte was a very good player, but never showed that he could be the catalyst to help make the whole team better. Good trade.
Brennan Malone could be a good get for Pittsburgh, but I feel they could have got a lot more. It’s gonna be a hard couple of years in the ‘Burgh
I gave both teams As on this trade. The Dbacks 1) desperately needed a CF to protect Ketel Marte’s health. 2) They needed a CF for about 2 years to bridge the gap until their 3 top ranked CF/OF prospects are major league ready. 3) They didn’t want a CF that would tie up salary beyond those 2 years and block the development of those top rated CF/OF. And 4) They wanted a CF that would improve their team now to try to close the gap with the Dodgers. The Dbacks check all of those boxes with Starling Marte, so I gave them an A.
The Pirates got an A because they got two of the fastest rising young prospects in a very good Dbacks system. I hated to see both traded, but trades shouldn’t be one sided, both teams should get something of roughly equal value. I’m aware than counting on young, 19 year old prospects is risky. But I think the new Pitt FO made the right decision to take this trade. So, I gave the Pirates an A too.
Agreed. Fair trade that is smart for both teams current circumstances.
I think Arizona won this trade. If the guys the Pirates had gotten were in AAA and AA and putting up this production, fine, but good production in A-ball means less. The international money can help, but it seems like Pittsburgh sold one of their better assets for a little less than they could’ve gotten. Time will tell, though. When the White Sox traded away Tatis, Jr., for Shields, Tatis was just a lottery ticket prospect himself. Five years from now, this could be entirely one-sided in Pittsburgh’s favor.
I think this trade is great for the Buccos. Getting two young high ceiling players with a GM that has shown he knows how to develop players. It’ll be interesting to see how Marte can handle the huge OF in Arizona with his declining fielding, but with the thin air he should have an even better bat. With the money saved the Pirates should go get Pillar now in hopes to flip him at the deadline.
Hard to say Pitt made the right deal without knowing what other offers we’re out there.
Could be teams were wary of Marte given his ped past and declining defense.
Could be the pirates had higher grades on the two prospects compared to others out there did- not the first or last time a team likes “their guy” more than everyone else.
The IFA money is huge. Will give Pitt extra ammo to sign as many lottery ticket type players as possible.
Acuna signed for $100,000. Fernando Tatis Jr signed for $400,000.
Gonna be a while to see what Pitts full return is, least 5-6 years.
250K of intl money isn’t a coup. Listing two outliers like Acuna and Tatis doesn’t change that fact. The prob of success on that 250K is extremely low.
With that being said. This is a very solid return for Pittsburgh. Cherington is gambling on two promising young players.
Literally said
“Will give Pitt ammo to sign as many lottery type players as possible”
Success is low…..which is why if you sign more chances of finding 1 or 2 go up. Which is why getting extra IFA money for a team entering a rebuild is huge.
Who knows who’s gonna pan out. But any trades they make they’ll probably target young high ceiling and those prospects plus the next 2 ifa classes should see dividends around the same time.
Even if the two prospects become great players in 3-5 years, it’s still a good deal for AZ. Of course the probability even one makes the bigs is low, which is why it’s a volume game to pump your system with as much talent as possible.
Rebuild, rebuild, rebuild. That’s all we ever hear. The Pirates are going to start the season with 1/2 the payroll that the Penguins have. That is really pathetic!
I mentioned this above. Seeing how SD is looking for a good CF, like Betts, and looking to dump Myers salary, then PT should’ve offered Marte, plus pick up 100% of Myers salary, just to see what the return would be. It could’ve been significant.
I don’t have a problem with small-market teams tanking, but if they can put some money on the table, to speed up the rebuild, they owe it to the fans to do so.
You have the Astros and the Red Sox getting killed for cheating and the Diamondbacks brought in a cheater.
The only thing preventing these people of character from cheating again is big brother. Great person to bring into your organization
Today, winning is more important than staining your organization, and the Diamondbacks just showed that.
Lmao This moral superiority sht absolutely kills me.
He served an 80 game suspension for roids two years ago. It’s over. Just like Nelson Cruz and many others did.
Spot on. Just like real life. You do the crime, you do the time. Then you move on. If MLB wanted to make it a lifetime ban, so be it. But until they do, as long as you paid your price, you are free to return.
Dbacks, with the additions this year of SP Bumgarner, CF Marte, RF Calhoun, backup catcher Vogt, and two backend of the bullpen arms (Rondon and Guerra) to supplement a core group that won 85 games and was in the thick of the WC race in mid-September last year, are a solid team with no weaknesses. Hazen checked off every single objective he outlined at the beginning of the off-season, and signed a staff Ace on top of that. The Dbacks are in their contention window 2 years ahead of schedule, and their highly rated farm system starts cranking out a few prospects this year, although the real bulk of top prospects are 2 years away. That means the contention window will stay open for at least the next 5-7 years. Great job by Hazen!
It started with their mini-dump of Goldschmidt. Then with a little money saved, and two starting players, and really a 3rd player considering Walker did a pretty good job at 1st. Considering the fact that, in the NL, you only have 14 key players, starting 3, with credible results and minimum wage, that’s a huge advantage.
Then, much like the Nats did with Harper, they used the Grienke savings to shore up other positions. Fine job by the AZ FO.
Macstruts sounds like a person who is deeply troubled. Not wanting to give a person the benefit of the doubt, a second chance. He surely needs help
I luv this trade for BOTH Teams, Could be one of those rare win-win trades if you look at it honestly! Pirates ain’t going nowhere this year, Marte has a bit of value(to contending teams) on his ‘economical’ contract that really makes ZERO sense for an obviously re-building Pirates club to hang onto! So, bidding war was on, and think they got a couple prospects they really liked(and I also like) more than any other teams could beat! Dbacks have a super solid farm and could afford to give up/risk some real talent to contend now, these are a couple top-10 prospects in a good system folks, for a guy with a PED suspension! Of course, we won’t know how this pans out for many years thanks to the two 19-year olds involved, but both have pretty high upside and if the SS guy is even anywhere close to Segura(minus the headcase issues), he’ll be an extremely valuable asset in the future and possibly even an outright steal! Pitt got much better than rejected QO teams got for losing a FA at least(SF gets comp pick #76 overall for losing Mad-Bum in Free Agency…thats it!!!)
Good take Ross. Also on the QO comp pick, for those who are complaining about a 4-5 year wait, please remember that for Marte, the Pirates would have had to wait 2 years for his contract to expire, then do the QO, then get a comp pick 1 year later, then wait 5-6 years for that pick to show up at the major league level. For those who complained about the 4-5 year wait…would you prefer an 8-9 year wait?
Another way, or two ways, to look at it are:
1-Compare the return for Marte compared to the return on Marisnick. The difference to me looks like Malone, which imho, is less than the difference between Marte & Marisnick.
2-Or compare Marte with Stroman. I’d argue that two years of Marte is more valuable than one year of Stroman, but I much prefer the return of Richardson & Kay to what the Pirates received.
Joe whatchu talkin bout?
Pirates got the DBacks’ first round pick from last year & a 19yo stud who hit .326 in the minors last year.
Marisnick got traded for a 24yo who was drafted 7 years ago and failed as a starter in minors. Only just started finding success as a reliever in AA this past year. Not a big haul by any means.
Also Mets got a year and a half of Stroman. He’s also 3 years younger & quality starters are valued really highly right now.
Based on? Minor league stats? Peguero’s a better prospect than Corona. Stroman was for a year and a half of control. The return on #2 type starters is certainly higher than outfielders. No surprise there. Though Kay is more of a floor than ceiling guy. SWR was the real prize there.
Marte got caught taking hormones prior to 2017 and is now on the wrong side of 30. His regression won’t be pretty. Good work by the Pirates for selling high now.
I sure hope Cherington’s scouting & development focus plays an effective role in this trade. It sure feels like they should have been able to do better.
I give the Diamondbacks an A and the Pirates a C+.
The Diamondbacks were able to keep their big name prospects who are a lot closer to the major leagues than the guys who were traded. Starling Marte also provides much needed outfield help. The Diamondbacks have a strong core of players for the next two years, a strong group of prospects, and more money to spend next year to add on to this already competitive team. Mike Hazen and Diamondbacks ownership, as well as Torey Lovullo, deserve a lot of credit.
The Pirates landed two good prospects. Malone has four strong pitches and could be a hard throwing ace in the major leagues one day. It’s a great addition. However, I was expecting them to ask for some players who are closer to MLB ready, but I guess they would not receive as much potential if they went for a trade for MLB ready prospects.
We tend to grade trades based on how the prospects traded will turn out. But this trade’s success will be determined by whether or not the Diamondbacks make the playoffs in 2020 or 2021.
Trade cleared some money to spend on pitching. That is all that matters right now. We have the weakest starting five in MLB and with that we cannot compete long term this year Two inning eaters would give us hope