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Realmuto On Arbitration Process, Contract Outlook

By Jeff Todd | February 21, 2020 at 6:54pm CDT

Star Phillies catcher J.T. Realmuto expressed disappointment today — not with his earnings or with the team, but with the process — after learning he had lost his arbitration case against the ballclub. Matt Breen of the Philadelphia Inquirer was among those to collect Realmuto’s thoughts.

Realmuto says he’s “fortunate” to earn a hefty $10MM salary, but said he’s “disappointed in the system more than anything.” He had sought a $12.4MM salary, with his side arguing that he ought to be compared as much to other high-quality position players as to prior catchers.

The hope, says Realmuto, was “to advance it a little bit and do something for future catchers.” Calling the system “outdated,” he criticized the fact that “there’s a separate catchers’ market.”

Realmuto ran into some of the same problems some other players have had with breaking up the strange forms of arbitration. Just as Josh Hader failed to convince a panel that he shouldn’t be undervalued just because he didn’t have a lot of saves, Realmuto struggled to pull away from the gravitational field of prior catcher salaries.

While the Phils will save some cash this year, don’t expect Realmuto to lower his sights when it comes to working out his first multi-year contract. That’s not out of bitterness — Realmuto didn’t express any disdain for the Phillies — but the same business-oriented approach that led him to take his arb case to a hearing. The arbitration process “doesn’t change anything from my outlook,” he said.

So, how likely is a deal? Realmuto says he “can’t predict the future.” He did express an ongoing interest in holding discussions with the team but wasn’t interested in handicapping the outcome. “Whether it matches up or not, that’s to be determined,” says the two-time All-Star.

The big question remains just what price Realmuto will demand — and how far the Phillies will stretch to keep him from reaching the open market. Breen joins Jon Heyman of MLB Network (video link) in suggesting that Realmuto’s camp would like to top the catcher-record $23MM annual value achieved a decade back by Joe Mauer. And Heyman says he expects Realmuto to look for a seven-year term.

It’s frankly tough to imagine the Phillies reaching to that level to lock up Realmuto with a year to go before free agency. Even on the open market, that level of annual salary and length of term seems like a reach for a player who’ll turn 30 before opening the 2021 season. Mauer’s monster deal is outdated, it’s true, but he was at the time a perennial MVP candidate and was also still just 27 years of age. If Realmuto is earn that sort of AAV over a significant term, he may need to log a big all-around season and market his services to all thirty teams next winter.

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Philadelphia Phillies J.T. Realmuto

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View Comments (108)

Comments

  1. Mr. Cooper

    3 years ago

    Should have given him the money,they’ll be sorry in the future

    Reply
    • BertMacklin

      3 years ago

      Idk why any team would go through this process. I feel like taking care of these guys earlier would probably save more down the line for a good number of these guys.

      Reply
    • VonPurpleHayes

      3 years ago

      Again, that’s a misunderstanding of the arbitration process. Getting that money would have done nothing to ensure or impede an extension.

      Reply
      • Mr. Cooper

        3 years ago

        Not referring to impediments but the fact that some players and agents have been known to carry grudges

        Reply
    • jimthegoat

      3 years ago

      Why’s that?

      Reply
      • VonPurpleHayes

        3 years ago

        Read the JT arbitration article (and comments) on this very site for a better explanation than I could ever give.

        Reply
        • jimthegoat

          3 years ago

          @VonPurpleHayes My comment was in response to Mr. Cooper, not you.

        • VonPurpleHayes

          3 years ago

          Apologies!

        • jimthegoat

          3 years ago

          I do think the likelihood of a Realmuto extension is overblown on this website, but I can tell you what’s not going to happen. He’s not going to absolutely refuse to sign an extension, or demand more money in an extension, BECAUSE the Phillies didn’t just give in and pay him what he wanted for 2020.

        • Mo4ever

          3 years ago

          While you may not be wrong, jim, as Strike Four has noted elsewhere in this thread, historical precedent is not with you. Historical precedent (30 year’s worth) says he will NOT sign with the Phillies now. That’s some precedent. Kinda hard to casually slough off.

        • jimthegoat

          3 years ago

          @Mo4ever Strike Four’s comment doesn’t matter. All that matters is the amount of $ that Philly does or doesn’t offer.

        • mustang66

          3 years ago

          And that is for public consumption. Privately he is most likely thinking…Oh! I may not be getting the extra $2.4m now, but I’ll get a premium next year if you want me to sign here long term

        • VonPurpleHayes

          3 years ago

          Strike Four is incorrect. Quick Google can show plenty who lose arbitration resign, including Mariano Rivera. I have no idea where Strike Four pulled that 30 years stat from, but it is very incorrect.

    • gozurman1

      3 years ago

      They could have given him exactly what he wanted and even sweetened it with a little more and it would not have saved them a dime in future negotiations. Usually about the only time a player decides to not go for the bigger money and move on in FA is if they are married and have school aged kids and they want to stay in city for their kids/family. That is not an issue for JT right now. No reason to stay with Philly if another contending is willing to put bid them,

      Reply
  2. macian

    3 years ago

    Go braves!

    Reply
    • phillyvseverybody

      3 years ago

      Who?

      Reply
  3. nats3256

    3 years ago

    Hopefully JT turns that red and white uni with P on his hat to one that has a W on his hat.

    Reply
    • justinbaseball

      3 years ago

      Wumbo?

      Reply
      • rememberthecoop

        3 years ago

        Its first grade Spongebob.

        Reply
        • mlb1225

          3 years ago

          You have it set to M for mini when you should set it to W for Wumbo!

  4. antibelt

    3 years ago

    Smart not to cave in. Pujols probably one of the top 5 hitters of his generation, and that co tract has proven to be an albatross. Imagine when Machado and Harper age how bad those contracts will be. Simpky not worth giving into him at this point. They can afford to outbid anyone if they choose to, but doesn’t mean they should.

    Reply
    • VonPurpleHayes

      3 years ago

      Harper’s contract may actually age well given the AAV. He’s actually getting about what he deserves per year. It’s just that it’s such a looooong contract.

      Reply
      • Phiilies2020

        3 years ago

        In 12 years 24mil wont be that much and Harper will still be good in 9 or 10 I’d bet

        Reply
        • VonPurpleHayes

          3 years ago

          My thoughts exactly.

    • raltongo

      3 years ago

      How does JTR’s last trip though the arbitration process have anything to do with Pujols’s mammoth contract? Your comment makes no sense whatsoever.

      Reply
  5. timpa

    3 years ago

    Ok..but the real major Phillies news is the Phillie Phanatic is getting some kind of makeover because of a copyright lawsuit. Phillies would have to break the best mascot

    Reply
    • VonPurpleHayes

      3 years ago

      Doesn’t sound like a major change, luckily.

      Reply
    • Paperdyer

      3 years ago

      If I’m remembering, the Phils need to change 25% of the Phanatic’s appearance to get around the design copyright. We’ll see the new Phanatic on Sunday

      Reply
    • DarkSide830

      3 years ago

      nothing is sacred these days

      Reply
  6. amcferron85

    3 years ago

    I don’t see how he can expect anything greater than 5 years for $100m.

    Reply
    • raltongo

      3 years ago

      Heyman was talking on MLB network the other day and was using Joe Mauer as a comp, although that was a decade ago I think. I agree w Heyman in that JTR should and would surpass Mauer’s 23MM salary, but then, still keeping in line with the Mauer deal, Heyman starts talking about how JTR could be looking at 7-8 years! Mauer, being such a pure hitter at the time of his deal, had some conceivable pathway to 1B later in the deal; JTR, while being an incredible athlete and in his prime right now, probably wouldn’t be the guy you’d want to depend on for production out of the 1st base spot 7 and 8 years from now. I think the Phils get a deal done for 5/125.

      Reply
  7. Moneyballer

    3 years ago

    His defense will prevent him from coming anywhere close to mauer money. Teams just don’t prioritize catcher enough to create a bidding war for his services. A great hitting catcher is more of a luxury than a need. Couple that with the rise of a platoon at the position and his dreams of getting 20 mil a season look grim to say the least. I just don’t see it happening.

    Reply
    • VonPurpleHayes

      3 years ago

      His defense is the best in the league. I’m not sure I get your point.

      Reply
    • cards04

      3 years ago

      Won a gold glove… not good at defense?

      Reply
      • andyg37

        3 years ago

        Not a fan of the gold glove argument, but regardless of what statistic you choose he is near the top. Passes the eye test too

        Reply
      • cygnus2112

        3 years ago

        So did Marcell Ozuna & we see how that defensive prowess carried over in the Lou…

        Reply
    • Strike Four

      3 years ago

      Realmuto is an elite defender, are you lost?

      Reply
    • raltongo

      3 years ago

      won’t get more than 20 mil a season? you couldn’t be more wrong

      Reply
    • gbs42

      3 years ago

      “A great hitting catcher is more of a luxury than a need.”

      What??? Every team could benefit from a great hitting catcher. Top-tier offense and defense from the position is very valuable – and quite rare.

      Reply
      • mustang66

        3 years ago

        That’s why as an outsider the Maur contract was so funny. He got paid for being a unicorn. A great defensive catcher with power and average.
        What happens the very next year? They move into a stadium that was so deep he hit 9 home runs..then moved him to 1b to save thier investment. As a 1b he deserved about 65% of that contract

        Reply
      • mustang66

        3 years ago

        That’s why as an outsider the Maur contract was so funny. He got paid for being a unicorn. A great defensive catcher with power and average.
        What happens the very next year? They move into a stadium that was so deep he hit 9 home runs..then moved him to 1b to save thier investment. As a 1b he deserved about 65% of that contract

        Reply
    • Amp

      3 years ago

      Moneyballer should comment on other sports. Ralmuto is the best defensive catcher in baseball.

      Reply
      • rgreen

        3 years ago

        I don’t think he’s saying his defense is bad,I think he’s talking about his position.

        Reply
    • Mr. Cooper

      3 years ago

      You lost me,wins a gold glove award and you say his defensive skills aren’t good enough. Please explain yourself my good man

      Reply
  8. Rangers29

    3 years ago

    Even though catcher is the most valuable position on the diamond, the key reason why teams don’t pay catchers is because the teams can get along just fine with an average/ above average catching duo. Lets look at the past 5 WS winners
    19′ Nats: Suzuki/Gomes
    18′ Sox: Vazquez/ Leon
    17′ Stros’: Mccann/ Gattis
    16′ Cubs: Contreras/ Ross
    15′ Royals: Perez / Butera

    Out of all of these WS winners, one of these catchers was an all star that season. It was Salvador in 15′, no disrespect to Contreras, but in 2016 he only played 76 games, but he did put up a good line in 76 games. My point being, all of these teams won, but only one two had good catchers, and only 1 had an all star.

    Realmuto deserves the money (he is the best catcher in the game), but why should teams pay him a ton, whenever those same teams can just get an average catcher and still win big.

    Reply
    • Strike Four

      3 years ago

      Yeah youre right not having the best player at the position actually isnt the way to a title, here are a list of coincidences to back up my terrible argument, SMH

      Reply
    • andyg37

      3 years ago

      I agree with the conclusion but not the method. The 7 champs before that received top tier productions from their catchers in terms of OPS+, with the lowest being Saltalamachia(not spell checking that) for the sox. The valuable part of a catcher is intangibles and defense, that is why Jeff Mathis keeps getting work. Big money is better served on other parts of the roster. Realmuto has value that is tough to pin down. I’d say 17ish per year is probably a good price point

      Reply
      • Rangers29

        3 years ago

        This is exactly what I mean. Mathis is getting work, and for 2 million a year, he is contributing by making the Ranger’s pitching better. You don’t NEED a top tier catcher, but it helps, like what Strike Four rudely said. I’m not saying a top tier catcher isn’t a good thing, what I’m saying is that it’s not needed.

        Reply
    • DarkSide830

      3 years ago

      still salty you traded us the guy we traded for JT?

      Reply
      • Rangers29

        3 years ago

        Alfaro? No, Hamels and Diekman were fan favorites in Texas for a while, I liked that trade. And Chirinos has been manning our catcher position for a long time while being a fan favorite. I’m not salty about it, i’m just stating why he probably won’t get as much money as he deserves.

        Reply
  9. Strike Four

    3 years ago

    In the last 30 years, of all the players with 5 years of experience who lost their final arbitration, 0% of them re-signed with the team. Dumb move by the Phillies, no way he signs with them now.

    He’ll be suiting up for the Braves next year, bet.

    Reply
    • Sadler

      3 years ago

      Ah, the joy of interpreting correlation as causation.

      Reply
      • Mo4ever

        3 years ago

        Still a pretty compelling correlation. Hard to sneeze at 30 years. I’m not saying it’s an open and shut case. I’m saying the odds do appear to be against it happening.

        Reply
        • VonPurpleHayes

          3 years ago

          It’s false though. Just Google it. Plenty of people have resigned after losing arbitration.

      • retire21

        3 years ago

        You do understand the meaning of correlation, right?

        Reply
    • VonPurpleHayes

      3 years ago

      Haha. I’m not guaranteeing an extension, but I assure you the arbitration hearing won’t be the deciding factor. Realmuto’s hearing was more of a stand for all catchers. I don’t think anyone honestly thought he’d win. I’m sure the Phillies will offer him more than he would have gotten in arbitration. It’s simply a matter of how much Realmuto wants. I believe a deal will work itself out soon.

      Reply
      • Mo4ever

        3 years ago

        Maybe. I hope so. For Philly’s sake.

        Reply
      • DarkSide830

        3 years ago

        to be honest, with the value he provides he *should* have won

        Reply
    • jimthegoat

      3 years ago

      How many of those players who went to arbitration in their 5+ service time offseason and lost had their team offer them the most money in FA?

      Reply
    • Rangers29

      3 years ago

      The Rangers should sign him. Don’t pick up the option on Chirinos, and get rid of Mathis. Sign Realmuto for four years and pair him with Huff, that’d be the best duo in the league.

      Reply
    • Paperdyer

      3 years ago

      I don’t think so
      The Braves aren’t going to pay. They don’t have the fan base. I’ve never seen the new stadium full. If you can’t fill the seats the way they have played the last 2 years, adding JT isn’t going to do it.

      Don’t forget Alec Bohm can play 1B as well as 3B. The Phils also have a good catcher in AAA. They may not want to sign JT if he asks for a no trade clause.

      Reply
    • Unicorndog

      3 years ago

      Strike,
      The small market, frugal owner, apathetic fan Atlanta Braves? It just doesn’t add up.

      Reply
    • rgreen

      3 years ago

      Yea,because the Braves are known for big free agent contracts….They might offer him a 1 year deal.

      Reply
    • solaris602

      3 years ago

      Next stop for Realmuto is the open market. I just don’t see PHI extending him if they haven’t already. Does anyone know if the Phillies have even made him an offer?

      Reply
      • VonPurpleHayes

        3 years ago

        Both parties weren’t even going to start negotiations until after the arbitration process. So they’ve been talking about it for 2 and half days at the time of this post. The idea that the Phillies are taking so long is ridiculous. It hasn’t even been a week.

        Reply
    • rgreen

      3 years ago

      0% re-signed over the last 30 years….Yankees won their case against Mariano Rivera in 2000.Where did he go when he left the Yankees?

      Reply
      • VonPurpleHayes

        3 years ago

        Thank you @rgreen. Strike Four is posting blatantly false info.

        Reply
  10. rangers92

    3 years ago

    I think he should get a 5 year $125 mil deal with a 6th year at $20 mil that vests if he plays in 100 games or more the 5th year

    Reply
  11. Chief Two Hands

    3 years ago

    I think most of the people who have joined the Phillies organization in recent years…players, coaches, front office, etc…must be looking around thinking, “Samsonite! I was way off!”

    Reply
    • Unicorndog

      3 years ago

      Chief,
      Yeah, I know a guy whose cousin works there, and he said the same exact thing.

      Reply
      • VonPurpleHayes

        3 years ago

        This sounds very credible…

        Reply
  12. GB85

    3 years ago

    Poor guy, only making 10m instead of 12m.

    Reply
    • Mo4ever

      3 years ago

      $2MM isn’t chump change. It’s $150+K/month more.

      Reply
  13. metsie1

    3 years ago

    Next year the Phillies will need to spend the “stupid money” they told us so much about if they want to keep Realmuto.

    Reply
    • Unicorndog

      3 years ago

      Oh, metsie!

      Reply
    • rgreen

      3 years ago

      Nope,we just spent it on the guy we stole from the Mets

      Reply
      • metsie1

        3 years ago

        LOL… Zack Wheeler? You mean the overrated guy you just overpaid for? Yup, you got me, that is truly stupid money.

        Reply
        • Unicorndog

          3 years ago

          Oh metsie, you scoundrel!

  14. DarkSide830

    3 years ago

    Realmuto is a smart guy. he knows this is a business and that being bitter towards a team simply because they beat him in arbitration would be unwise.

    Reply
    • Chief Two Hands

      3 years ago

      Confucius say bitterness over arbitration unwise.

      Reply
  15. titanic struggle

    3 years ago

    I don’t want to take away from this headline in any, way shape or form, but I feel a need to comment on the Astros scandal. I know, and I apologize in advance. But Rob Manfred needs to go, right now owners. He completely butchered a Kennesaw Mountain Landis moment. He completely avoided his responsibilities. That being said, the MLBPA should be embarrassed and ashamed of asking for immunity for the players involved. Neither one had the best interests of the game at heart. Both sides just ripped the heart out of what little good was left of the game.

    Reply
    • DarkSide830

      3 years ago

      how many Stros articles did you have to be able to put this comment on? why chose this one?

      Reply
  16. okiguess

    3 years ago

    The Phillies will pass on 7 years, $160+ million for a 30 year old catcher.

    Reply
    • angt222

      3 years ago

      Every team should. Mauer looked like he was going to be worth every penny of his contract after the 2009 season then concussions ending his catching career and he just didn’t seem to hit the same.

      Reply
  17. lowtalker1

    3 years ago

    Watch him go else where next year
    Making rocking brown in 21

    Reply
  18. Jeff Zanghi

    3 years ago

    I really have a hard time saying he’s as good as he (and most analysts) seem to say he is. I’ve read a bunch of articles and stories declaring him the “Best catcher in baseball” and things along those lines. And while this may be the case — I’m not sure he’s really all that far ahead of whoever you’d consider the next 2-5 best catchers. For example Christian Vasquez had essentially the same batting line as him last year (slightly lower OBP and 2/3 fewer HRs) but Vasquez is making less than $10M a season for something like 3/4 years (salary goes up slightly over the life of the deal) but to say/think that Realmuto (who’s a year older) is going to get more than double his AAV and for 7 years just seems a bit absurd. Maybe I’m in the minority but I just don’t view him as being the “superstar” he seems to think he is. He’s good don’t get me wrong but 7/$165M+ … that just seems way too high.

    Reply
    • VonPurpleHayes

      3 years ago

      It’s not about his batting line though. It’s his elite arm, game calling, blocking ability…etc. The solid offense is really just a bonus.

      That being said, 7/165 is too high for a 30-year old catcher.

      Reply
  19. Jeff Zanghi

    3 years ago

    Also using the Mauer deal as the baseline might not be the best idea. Mauer was good but I think in hindsight that deal doesn’t exactly look all that good. In fact it kind of shows why you shouldn’t give catchers big deals (in terms of years) because at least in Mauer’s case he obviously broke down and couldn’t even finish the contract as a C

    Reply
    • rememberthecoop

      3 years ago

      Theres no question that Mauer’s deal was bad, and it’s not a good comp anyway for baseball reasons. The Real Muto is better defensively tho at the time Mauer was the much better hitter. There are so few good catchers out there

      Reply
  20. Pax vobiscum

    3 years ago

    The problem for the Phillies at this point is two years of Realmuto cost them Sixto Sanchez.

    Reply
    • VonPurpleHayes

      3 years ago

      And Alfaro who is not a bad catcher at all.

      Reply
  21. fivetwos

    3 years ago

    Seems like a team that signs a catcher long term for big money will end up trying to figure out where to hide him on the field and counting the minutes until the deal expires.

    It’s the one spot where you need to let a good one go too early. Let it be someone else’s headache.

    Interested to see how NYY handles Sanchez.

    Reply
  22. sportsfreak52

    3 years ago

    Realmuto won’t re-sign with the Phillies long-term.
    All players want to be paid what they think they’re worth, but they also want to be shown respect and the the Phillies showed him zero respect over a measly 2.5 million.
    I don’t care who believes that or who can show reasoning why, respect is valuable to a player and Philadelphia put their payroll over showing him their gratitude.
    Anybody that has played and been paid to do so is a fool to argue that fact.

    Reply
    • sportsfreak52

      3 years ago

      But, Realmuto also will not receive a 7 year deal, Philadelphia will have a minor leaguer ready in 3 or 4 years.
      Realmuto will have to take a 3 or 4 year deal IF he even wants to stay in Philadelphia.
      That’s why a heavy emphasis is placed on a strong minor league system by big league teams; to save them from bad contracts.

      Reply
    • jimthegoat

      3 years ago

      Lmao if Philly pays them they can “disrespect” him all they want.

      Reply
    • VonPurpleHayes

      3 years ago

      That’s not what arbitration is about. This narrative is just so incorrect.

      Reply
  23. crazylarry

    3 years ago

    Mauer’s contract was a albatross. Maybe a 4 year deal but that is it. He is a hell of a catcher, but going on 30 and that kind of $$$ sounds like a problem.

    Reply
  24. phillyballers

    3 years ago

    Catchers never play full seasons. They always miss at least 15-20 games a season by design. Even the HOFers of recent history didn’t play 162. They’ll argue they have more wear and tear though. He also asked for a lot more than the last arb high. Need to keep it in check.

    Reply
    • phillyballers

      3 years ago

      The other argument is, setting the precedent means bums like Andrew Knapp get paid more too. Guys that should be handing out beers at the game instead of on the 40 man.

      Reply
  25. nockahoma

    3 years ago

    Personally, I think all their contracts should be based on a base pay and performance based bonuses, during the first 6 years of MLB service that should be set by MLB/players union in the CBA….. want to make more money go earn it…. I would actually like all contracts to be that way….player and team agree to a base salary and then negotiate performance enhancers and bonuses, and to help protect teams they can agree to a yearly cap max…. aka 10 mil base,,,, 35mil max value… with performance enhancers…. go earn your money…. I am tired of watching players in walk years magically have a career year and then return to the same mediocre player they always have been after signing a big contract. Players should be encouraged even when on a bad team to perform to the maximum extent possible….

    Reply
    • Mr. Cooper

      3 years ago

      Good point but

      Reply
  26. rgreen

    3 years ago

    Realmuto’s just mad he’s 0 for 2 in the arbitration process.Maybe his agent just isn’t very good with projections.

    Reply
    • VonPurpleHayes

      3 years ago

      Pretty sure everyone (including JT) knew he’d be losing this hearing. Having the hearing itself was more of a statement than winning it.

      I’m also 100% confident that the results of the arbitration won’t affect Realmuto’s decision on an extension. He’s seeking what he believes is a fair deal. If the Phillies offer him that, he’ll likely take it. But of course the real question is, are the Phillies willing to give out yet another monster contract, because they’ll certainly need to if they want to keep J.T.

      Reply
      • rgreen

        3 years ago

        He wouldn’t be disappointed if he expected to lose.To sit here and say he put out a number he knew he had no shot at,dont make a whole lot of sense.

        I understand why he went to arbitration,i’ve said it multiple times through comments on here.He might just wanna do the same in free agency,considering catchers really haven’t been paid there either.And even though he says there’s no hard feelings,he’s also said the team took advantage of an outdated system.He’s disappointed,and that’s concerning.Especially considering the Phillies options at catcher,if they are unable to make him stay.

        Reply
      • metsie1

        3 years ago

        Phillies screwed him I think he’s going to be problem in the clubhouse. He doesn’t really want to be in a Philadelphia. I mean who does.

        Reply
  27. brucenewton

    3 years ago

    If he’s looking for 6 or 7 years as a 30 year old catcher, Phils should definitely take a hard pass.

    Reply
  28. SanDiegoPaul

    3 years ago

    Sooo is Glguaranteeing a star player’s happiness not worth $2.4m?

    Reply
    • SanDiegoPaul

      3 years ago

      *Guaranteeing

      Reply

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