TODAY: Though the league’s proposal is still days away, there is “more optimism” that a deal can be reached to launch the 2020 season, according to MLB Network’s Jon Heyman (Twitter links). While many details still stand in the way of an agreement, both the league and the MLBPA are aware of the stakes, both the financial cost if no games are played, as well as the “understanding on both sides what cancellation of [the] season would do to” damage baseball as a whole. To this end, Heyman writes that the “belief is, both sides will compromise” in some fashion from their current positions — the owners’ desire for a 50/50 revenue split and the players’ desire for prorated salaries.
MAY 22: There’s been an awful lot of debate surrounding the financials of a prospective 2020 MLB campaign, but the league has yet to issue a formal proposal to the MLB Players Association. That will finally take place on Tuesday, per Evan Drellich of The Athletic (via Twitter).
What isn’t yet known is just what sort of concept the league will ultimately put in front of the players. Prior talk of a 50/50 revenue-sharing plan for salaries was met with quite some angst from the labor perspective. That set off a round of bizarre debate regarding the meaning of the sides’ late-March preliminary agreement on resuming play in 2020.
The MLBPA position remains that the players have already agreed to a pro rata reduction of pay and shouldn’t be forced to give up more — unless, at least, the league comes forward with additional information demonstrating it would not be economically feasible to stage a season otherwise. The league side believes the original agreement really didn’t address the matter of salaries in the event that games are played without attending fans (as seems all but certain).
At the end of the day, regardless of the interpretation of the prior agreement, the sides will need to find common ground on salaries to get an already-challenging 2020 campaign rolling. And there are immense incentives for both sides to figure things out. It’d be a true shocker to see a stalemate hold up a resumption of play. The effort to avoid that mutually disastrous outcome — and to jockey for the best position short of it — will begin a new chapter upon the presentation of this new proposal on Tuesday.
I see more of a 75/25 split if negotiations actually get anywhere.
75% for players right? Workout out them playing there is no game to be played
You really need to lear. More about the business of baseball. We are talking revenue here. The players have no cost bu the owners have tremendous costs. Think of all the people who work in a baseball front office, security, rent. 75 is insanely high percent of revenue. Give players 75 or 95 percent of profit is fair but not revenue
Players will cave like they do every other time. They’ll be taken to cleaners by owners and then come out of meeting and declare themselves the winner.
Idk looks like the players have been taking owners and fans to the cleaners for years. David Price made 31 million last year and Cespedes 29 million. Do the fans of Red Sox and Mets get money back because these two scammed them? How about Jacoby Ellsbury who has been in witness protection last 4 years. How about Astros players not getting banned for life for fixing games?
Sorry, no owner read that comment. Too busy counting their billions to notice a player making 31 million (3.1% of a billion dollars)
I agree but no one feels sorry for the owners. Inbred morons support the players even when Blake Snell told the fans to drop dead and MLBPA didn’t kick him out because they support that message. MLBPA openly admits that MLB is a fixed sport’s entertainment like WWE and defended the Astros instead of trying to ban those players Bregman,Altuve,Correra,Springer,Verlander etc for life. Baseball put Jeter in HOF even though he cheated on his taxes and knew his teammates were using roids but those rings were worth it!!!!!MLB will put Ortiz in the HOF two years from now even though he used steroids and helped Red Sox cheat 3 WS titles.
Seems like maybe baseball isn’t for you?
If you have a problem with at least 1/3 of the last 25 years, just from one post, why do you follow baseball? It’s a big time commitment for something you obviously don’t like.
Ridiculous comment. Player’s are overpaid.
Owners earned their money they have nothing to be ashamed of
No seems like hearing the truth isn’t for you?
Ban Verlander? For what?
The owners sign the checks at the end of th day. “Scammed” is a very weird way to say something didn’t work out. You can’t blame the players because their seasons didn’t go as planned.
Owners need players to go out on the field to win games & then the owners sell the jerseys of the really good players.
I’m hoping the season is rolling by 4th of July.
July 1st! Canada rocks!
The border is still closed as of this point.
Ah whatevs.
The border never shuts down.
… thats the other border…
It’s also true that without the owners there is no baseball.
That’s not entirely true. Somewhat, yes, but not entirely. Players could put together exhibition games like they did in 30s and 40s during offseasons. Theres semiprofessional leagues, theres foreign leagues. But u 100% without a doubt, cant have baseball without players.
Barnstorming is what that was called. There is no way the premadonna’s of today would ever do that.
Their agents certainly wouldn’t let the players do that…
The agents don’t dictate to the players, they make recommendations. They work for the players, not the other way around!
lol you really think the players are smart enough to know what’s best? they do what the agent tells them
Soderbergh tried to make a movie about this re: basketball. It was terrible but interesting nonetheless
While you are correct there cant be baseball without players, the players do not have to be these players. Rent a few minor league teams or independent league for a year and work with an ammended deal with the tv broadcast for this year. While it wont have as much skill as the original product, people are desperate for sports it will probably be welcomed and those teams will make more in one game than they do in probably one season. All the owners have to do is sell their air time/tv deal to these other leagues.
Owners offset some of their losses, people get to see baseball, and mlbpa / players arent playing
I have to disagree. Putting a sub-par product on the field would, in my opinion, just about destroy any chance the owners have at public sympathy. It’s NEVER worked well in any major sports league when replacement players were utilized.
Somebody either hasn’t been around since 1994, doesn’t remember it, or doesn’t care. No other options.
How to kill your league in 3 easy steps!
Please No.
@roll
I highly doubt the tv contracts are transferable and the broadcasting partner would accept the lesser product.
@hubcap
It was accepted during war time when many stars went to fight for their country.
The marginal players might do that. But anyone with a long-term contract is not going to chance injury and end up with nothing.
What? I always find these takes very strange. There are only a few hundred people in the United States with enough capital to pull off owning and operating a professional baseball team.
There are literally tens of thousands of people who can play baseball.
So, yes, baseball needs players to play. But without the economic power of the owners professional baseball as we know it would cease to exist because it would lack the financial means to operate at the level it does.
JTM
Sure it could happen without billionaire owners. You give citizens of each municipality with a ranchise equity in their sports teams and stadiums. The players wouldn’t be signing $100mm contracts routinely, but so what?
Supply and demand. You can play baseball for $100k a year as Mike Trout, or you can do something else for a living. The only reason players are paid what they are paid is supply and demand.
HKNOVA
“ This is just mlb union players. Millions of people willing to play professionally for less. Players are replaceable!”
Willing to play baseball? What does that even mean?
In order for someone to play Major League Baseball, they had to be one of the best players in little league, then one of the best in Babe Ruth, one of the best in their county in High School, maybe their whole state.
They had to compete with players from all over the country and globe for multiple years to be given a shot. Willing? Try willing and able, able to be one of the best on the planet.
No one is “willing” to watch you play. And that’s ok.
This is just mlb union players. Millions of people willing to play professionally for less. Players are replaceable!
That’s what they said in 1994 and it almost killed the game dead.
At least some of us remember.
Killed the game dead? That sounds awful.
@RickyAdams
Do you really think these money hungry players will take what a semi professional league would pay them? I agree that you can’t have baseball without players. It is possible to have baseball without THESE players, though.
Baseball is a game that anyone can play.
If players are good enough, other people will pay to watch those people play. There doesn’t need to be a middle man between the players and spectators.
So if any absolute statement needs to be made about baseball, it’s that the game comes first, and capitalizing on the game comes second.
Eh, you need people to market, make decisions, run financials, ensure the spectators are safe and enjoying it, keeping the players healthy, arranging travel trips, etc.
Baseball is a sport, but the MLB (just like the NFL, NBA, and any others professional league) is an entertainment business. You need numerous middle men to put forth the product we enjoy.
Brandon
The profit margins in baseball are evidence enough that the game generates much more than is necessary for it to operate as it does currently.
The game comes before the owners. The owners wrap it up and slap a bow on it.
Take a spring training game in a Florida state league stadium. It will draw more than a Florida state league game. Or put an established Major Leaguer on a rehab assignment in some A Ball stadium. The same happens with women’s professional athletics when compared to men’s. Same venue and access (if not cheaper to access women’s).
That has nothing to do with owners and everything to do with the players and level of talent.
Business people do what they will with a product, and that is capitalize on it. But most people would rather watch a premier baseball team play in a C venue than a C team play in a big league stadium.
Futures game vs ASG, same venue, much different experience. Examples like these happen all the time.
Why do players have to be good? All baseball is entertaining to me.
You like watching tee ball? Seek therapy.
I get where he was going with that. From rookie ball to spring training games, its all fun.
when my daughter played, yes.
absolutely correct.
Orioles fan?
yes
@shorty
Way to take this to an extreme. Ever enjoy a minor league game? That’s the level that’s being talked about here. Likely the equivalent of AAA ball. Even a high school or College game is entertaining. It doesn’t require Mike Trout or Blake Snell for baseball to be enjoyable.
Bill James agrees with you
Bill James is a genius
I dont agree completely, but Im not a genius
Bottomline- You might be a genius……… and everyone else should at least go read something by Bill James
If the Owners shut down the games there won’t be games. But the players/agents could organize Skills Competitions such as has been done during All Star weeks throughout the years. Much less risk of injury, fewer logistics, not affected by some players opting to sit out, etc.
@ Tony
They could. But it wouldn’t draw the same level of fans or pay like they are demanding from the owners.
The owners are replaceable.
The union should call the owners’ bluff….
50/50 split of the REAL revenue (which includes the TV networks many teams own and other ancillary income streams) and not just this year (with reduced revenues) but each year going forward. They have been getting less than 40% lately.
If the owners want to float a shallow appeal to fairness that benefits them, float one right back.
The players risk losing a % of what is already half their salaries this year and whatever residual damage occurs for however long their individual careers last.
The owners risk flushing a $10 billion industry (that is already approaching a demographic iceberg, as it is) right down the toilet.
This is a great opportunity for the PA to get access to the REAL revenue figures, as you put it. Even if they take a hit this year.. that info could prove to be very useful for the players in the next round of CBA negotiations.
Good call
owners will never open their books.
Which is why they will never agree to a percentage of the revenue. Teams have been turning profits into book losses for decades, that’s why they will never open their books and why the mlbpa, will never believe a word they say.
Hmm no teams men’s no league. No league means all Bryce Harper washes cars.
With the amount of money he’s made he won’t be washing cars, or even to really work at all.
true but the point is that all players aren’t rich.
I wouldn’t call it a bluff but I think taking the deal based on revenue is the right move. The tv revenue is not going to be the same because there is off setting language in these contracts based on the number of games played. However because the proposal is based on revenue and not just the tv contracts it will give them access to the owners financial statements, and also doing that allows such information part of discovery in case there is future litigation. All this is to say, such information will finally be accessible to players when negotiating the next CBA. However, there is likely a reason that owners are finally making such a proposal. The risk for players is they might be over estimating the actual revenue on the financials. Which surprisingly has less to do with the valuation of a business then people realize.
At the end of the day players need to make sure enough revenue flows to the teams that they can pay for all their full uear and offseason obligations (including extra covid testing/cleaning/private plane charters, scouting, front office, stadium upkeep and maintenance, etc) in addition to just player salaries.
Seriously, everybody needs to be reasonable or just cancel the season already and just work on the next CBA in that time. Players can just pay back the 4% advance on their salaries they received.
If I’m players union, I’m not taking a 50/50 revenue split, unless owners agree to open books for players, union, arbitrators, lawyers, and anybody else of significance can see and only if its 50/50 split of all revenue inc regional tv money, national tv money, advertising money, sponsorships, merchandising, everything. And, I want a guarantee of compensation once revenues return to normal, too.
Congratulations you won’t get paid a nicklel. Keep in mind not all players are rich.
union has reserves to pay players more than even a dime each. since you had no idea about that, maybe, you don’t deserve to get paid less than a nickle a day.
glad you have seen the teams books, I haven’t.
Untrue
what’s untrue? union has no reserves? then it isn’t a union!
no but they have guaranteed contracts. whether they are hurt sick or suck they get paid
According to the MLBPA players pay about $70 a game in dues.
Idk for a fact but some say the union returns that money with interest, but can’t find hard evidence to suggest that.
At $70 a game that’s roughly $14,000 a season from each player.
Even if the union has “reserves” it couldn’t possibly be enough for every player to meet all their bills and financial obligations.
I love working on a revenue split but it only works because there is transparency. We all know how much revenue there is. No transparency, no deal.
I own a business and I’m sorry, but I will never open the books to my employees.
Why? What harm would it do?
77 – I agree with stoll. There are people who think profits and income should be capped and anything over should be redistributed or taxed away. Business owners take the risk, they should reap the reward. The free market will dictate what they pay their employees.
This whole think is about the owners wanting someone else tk take their risk.
I’m sure you’ll also never bind yourself to a contract that mandates you pay your employees 50% of your revenue.
Stollcm, does your business have a union that you have to keep a relationship with that’s fighting over billions of dollars? Why you thought that your situation is equivalent to what is going on with MLB makes me think you just didn’t put a lot of thought into your response.
Baseball handling of this (both sides) compared to the other major sport leagues is embarrassing.
Only because the players already caved in and have a salary cap in other sports. Not much to argue over with a cap.
there is no salary cap in baseball!
that’s why it’s in the shape it’s in
Desperately need a cap floor / ceiling. Overwhelming majority of fans just want to see a level playing field. Salaries will still increase at same rate they always do if the caps are at the correct levels.
there is a level playing field. the disparity between markets is exaggerated
lol
true but your just playing with words.
I think the nba soft cap model could work. The ability to go over the cap to sign your own free agents, plus the trading would have to significantly change, you would have to write in teams can go over the cap, in trades for just that season, creates hired gun philosophies. Plus you get max, min, & exemption salaries. The NBA model makes free agents get paid every year, it helps distribute salaries while giving the teams the opportunity to keep & grow their own stars.
It would mean a big philosophy change for MLB, day a 160 million cap, with a 90 million floor. You would also have to get Oakland, Tampa, & small market teams on board with spending or they get relocated to markets that will support the team or contracted.
There will be many teams contracted because of this. Look what happened with the minor leagues. Fans in Minnesota, Kansas City, Oakland, Miami, Milwaukee and Baltimore will need to buy a lot of merchandise and buy some multiple year season ticket packages to keep those teams viable.
i seriously doubt there will be contractions. owners make so much money to just give up a team other than the mets. still it’s worth billion dollars!
anyway, owners must be morons if they had not saved enough to ride over one single season of reduced income. or they are bluffing. i know lt’s the latter.
I’m saying if you are fan of those teams you need to step up and start spreading the cheddar. I actually think relocation is more likely. I would much rather see a dynamic league with teams in Louisville, Memphis, Charlotte, Silicon valley, and the Golden Triangle. Minnesota, KC, Milwaukee, Baltimore and Oakland are all in redundant markets with existing teams and don’t have many fans( only about 300-500 thousand ) total fans.
u want to move a team from oakland to silicon valley? Lol whut
Minnesota, & Milwaukee draw dans, & always will. Plus they have great stadiums, both have been well run & consistently out side of a couple years, in contention every year.
Yes Oakland to Silicon Valley
Baltimore to Charlote and or/ San Antonio
Milwaukee to Memphis
Minnesota to Louisville
Kansas City to Jacksonville
Detroit to Buffalo
Cincinatti to New York( 3rd team) or San francisco ( 2’d team)
This eliminates the struggling markets in Minnesota, Kansas city And Cincinatit. Makes fans feel safe again by eliminating Detriot and Baltimore, and eliminates a redundancy In Milwaukee. Chicago already has two teams why do they need a team in Milwaukee too? Waste of money.
The A’s have tried to move to Silicon Valley (Fremont) and San Jose multiple times. The giants won’t ever allow that to happen.
you think it’s right that a player in their career, has made half of the value of a franchise?
to me that shows how whacked the system is.
i doubt even trout would earn $1 billion in salaries in his career. besides, by the time he retires the team would be worth much more than 2 bil.
Arod made over 60% of the royals worth.
I guess as a player supporter that seems fair to you….
And he wasn’t paid 35 million when he got a slap on the wrist for cheating and then lying about cheating. Its a known fact he started juicing when he got to Texas
no they wolnt. their cheapness has given them huge cash cushions. none of them are folding.
I wouldn’t be at all shocked if this ended in an impasse. The MLBPA has problems of its own but nothing compared to the catastrophically bad MLB decision-making structure. They couldn’t get all 30 team owners to agree on the day of the week.
yet somehow they agreed to Manfred…so sad
The owners will always agree on one thing, and that is a weak commissioner. The history of the game is the owners finally realizing in 1919 that if they were left entirely to their own devices they would slaughter their own cash cow. No commissioner since Landis has ever had any real authority.
time for the main event
Just move on to 2021. There will be nba to watch and soon enough there will be football. A half season will be bogus anyway and do we really want to watch games in empty ballparks? That promises to be very compelling.
You don’t have to watch but many other people do. Just ignore the games and ridicule the fans who are enjoying them.
Yeah, we do want a MLB season. If not, why are you here?
I will watch
what exactly is the issue with no fans? ive never understood and need an explanation.
My explanation is that if I’m not able to be in my season ticket seat, and games are played, if I watch the games on tv, I’ll have to listen to the constant drivel of our local announcers. I won’t mention any names, but initials are CJN, and DR. Guys love to hear themselves talk. Guess I could just turn volume down…
The players have indicated that they are unwilling to play unless their salaries are prorated, which is their right.
But if the owners dont agree, there will be no MLB this year.
If the players and agents then decide that they will put on some type of exhibition, the players will be playing for pennies on the dollars they would have made under the owners proposal…and they will be taking on all the health risks. Again, that’s their right.
The minimum salary for a player on a MLB roster is upwards of $600,000 plus better benefits than 95% of Americans receive. There are no poor MLB players, unless they are stupid.
The owners are no better, but in some cases there are some who will be severely hurt and their franchises financially devastated. Much of a franchises value is tied into its future selling price…which now has dropped thru the floor.
Anybody interested in buying the Pirates or Indians while they are shut down for a year, and with labor unrest due in eighteen months?
Over the long term, we could see contraction, and a corresponding loss of jobs.
Both sides better be careful of what they wish for.
A lot of baseball players arent full time on the active roster to make the leagye minimum
and they still make more than 95% of Americans
What an amazing cluster this has become. Baseball had so much time to work on contingencies, and here they are. The same argument they always have.
i agree but it is the opposite of their usual arguments. union always has wanted to have the revenue shared as nba and nfl do. owners always opposed to it. and now that the season is halved and there won’t be any fans for a foreseeable future, owners want to share the revenue which means less than their agreed portion of salaries.
Not my point. It always comes down to money, regardless of the structure. Can never see eye to eye and constantly adversarial
I hope David Price can somehow live on his piece of shared revenue…
An interesting question that hasnt been publically addressed.
The owners have offered a revenue split with the players, but leagues that have such splits also have revenue sharing across the board between the franchises.
The only thing I’ve read is that MLB is not gonna have any revenue sharing for 2020. That doesnt seem to mesh with the owners offer to the players.
How does MLB pull off a split with the players without revenue sharing among the teams, without throwing some of the franchises overboard?
TV ratings should be through the roof. And if MLB shakes things up w dh, divisions and makes games a little quicker then that should be an additional boost. Longer they wait more people will get back to normal and forget baseball like every other year. Time for mlb to stop being followers and step into a new age of leading sports in our nation.
TV ratings will not be through the roof. Why? Basketball and Hockey playoffs will start, and the PGA Tour will be back
Wouldn’t be shocked at all if there is a stalemate.
certainly good news. i agree with the optimistic sentiment
I almost wish MLBTR would close comments when referring to Covid-Sars (directly or indirectly) but they do have some really great stories in those articles. It was one of these articles that I learned the Braves were the first club to extend employee pay through the end of May. Now the Brewer’s are leading the way in how it treats it’s employees.
It’s nice when you read about the teams that are treating their staff well and I don’t want to lose that. There are also posters who I think are knowledgeable AND have the humility not to fill in their knowledge gaps with assumptions of simplicity like the battle that is going on between the MLBPA and the owners.
These two entities have been bickering with each other for decades and these last couple decades have been relatively peaceful during that time when you compare it too the 80’s and 90’s.
With all that history and enormous amounts of money being fought over, with closed door meetings, and conversations that involve arbitrators and high priced lawyers, this situation is anything but simple. If you don’t have a back ground or education that relates to any of this, opinions should probably be reserved until the two sides of come to an agreement.
There.
Will.
Be.
NO.
Season.
Discussion over.
You.
Are.
A.
Pessimist.
Discussion over.
You
Are
An
Imbecile
Discussion over
I don’t see much incentive for financially secure players to return for anything less than full or prorated pay. How fans feel about them for sitting out is mostly inconsequential.
Welp, I think I’m going back to ladies tennis.
If the MLBPLA says no and there’s a hard dead line. Could and would resort to replacement players to get their TV. Revenue??
That sure didn’t work in 1994.
If the MLBPLA says no and there’s a hard dead line. Could and would resort to replacement players to get their TV. Revenue??
with cba negotiation coming up would the league make that serious mistake? doubt it!
one funny thing is a lot of people acted like kbo would quench their baseball thirst. they found out they are broadcast early in the morning when most are either sound asleep or dead drunk!
Afternoon replay also, but it’s no substitution for MLB. You can see such former MLB stars as Aaron Altherr!
The magic word: “compromise.” In the end, unless you have complete control over a desired outcome this is the only prudent path to travel when realize you’d be worse off without it.
The owners are taking a real beating presently, what they need to do is agree to the pro rated money agreed to earlier, but defer a lot of the money to the players until baseball gets back to normal. I have read and heard that most players are on board with this.
A 50/50 split doesn’t seem fair to me.
The owners sit quarantined at home or in the press box, while the players are putting themselves at a greater risk.
Idk what that is. But they do deserve more than the owners rn.
This whole argument about players not needing owners is weird. It’s the same business owner/employee argument.
– players and owners need each other to maximize profits for both sides. This is a good thing and promotes the best product. Neither is trying to prove otherwise so I don’t know why we are arguing that. If players didn’t need owners then there would be thriving side leagues given how bad it sucks to be in the minors.
– while owners need players to make the league work, they are still rich without the players, players need the owners to be rich. For most owners they made their billions and this is how they spend their money for fun. Take away MLB and these guys are still loaded. Take it away from the players and there will be an influx of luxury cars and homes in the market in about 4 months.
The owners are not in this for “fun” they are in it for profit.