The Giants are in true limbo behind the plate. Organizationally, they have one of the better catching situations in all of baseball. On the one hand, they have a tried-and-true franchise legend still under contract in Buster Posey. Not only was he the backbone of three, count ’em, three World Series titles, but he’s a class act and a fan favorite. In his prime, he was the platonic ideal of a franchise catcher. Admittedly, he is on the decline. Last season was the first since 2011 that the then-32-year-old didn’t make the All-Star team. He’s gone from a 130-start powerhouse behind the plate to more of a true timeshare 100-start guy. He also fell below 100 wRC+ for the first time in his career (save for his 7-game stint as a 22-year-old in 2009). And more to the point, he opted out of the 2020 season to care for his newly adopted twin baby girls. Again: class act.
On the other end of the spectrum, the Giants are blessed with two of the top catching prospects in all of baseball. Joey Bart, the #2 overall pick from the 2018 draft is ranked by Baseball America as the second best catching prospect in all of baseball. Then, with the 13th pick in this year’s draft, they snagged the top NCAA catcher available in Patrick Bailey.
So, yes, big picture, the Giants have an enviable catching corps. But they need to field the position for 2020, and that’s where things get a little sticky. Bailey, 21, has zero chance of jumping straight to the majors from college. He needs time in pro ball to develop. Bart is closer, but all indications are that the Giants want to give him more time, per Henry Schulman of the San Francisco Chronicle. He’s close, appearing in 22 games at Double-A last year and raking to the tune of .316/.368/.544. But a talent like Bart is worth the wait, and though he might be ready at some point this season, the Giants aren’t likely to contend. They don’t want to punt the first part of his career in sub-optimal conditions.
Enter Russell Martin? Schulman put forth Martin’s name as a possibility, noting that Justin Turner lobbied for the veteran to return to the Dodgers recently. Even in a part-time capacity, the well-respected Martin would certainly make some sense. The 37-year-old backstop proved he still had a role on a ML club last season with the league-leading Dodgers. President of baseball operations Farhan Zaidi said that the Giants will have to evaluate their internal and external options, and if nothing else, they’re likely going to need someone else in camp just to catch the pitchers on hand.
Without him, the Giants are looking at Chadwick Tromp, Tyler Heineman, and Rob Brantly as the top options from their player pool. Combined, they have 464 big-league plate appearances (429 from Brantly, 11 from Heineman). Brantly, 30, is by far the most experienced of the three, but he hasn’t seen substantive time in the majors since 2017. For the rebuilding Giants, they’re probably most concerned with their ability to handle pitchers and less concerned with contributions at the plate – which is the best argument in favor of pursuing a vet like Martin.
There are catchers out there they could acquire via trade, but with 60-man player pools, catchers fill a very particular need, and player movement has never been more complicated than it is now. Still, they could engage the Rockies’ for Elias Diaz or the Rangers for Blake Swihart, Tim Federowicz, or Nick Ciuffo. Those are just options from teams in their regional pool because, again: player movement is not simple anymore. For those reasons, Martin probable represents the best outside option.
The Giants support Posey in his decision, and they’re going to continue to work with Bart and Bailey to get them ready for their big-league debuts. Maybe Bart will find a way in intrasquad play to prove himself ready. Or maybe one of Tromp, Heineman, or Brantly will seize the opportunity. What we know for sure, the Giants have 60 games ahead in the 2020 season, and they’re going to need a catcher for every one of them.
As a Dodgers fan I find this hysterical however as a baseball fan I am sure Giants fans would love to know and are asking themselves “yes, explain to us what our options are for replacing a former MVP in the face of the franchise“. As a Dodgers fan kind of figured winning this division it was going to be easy but the way the rest of the teams are looking in the National League West this is going to be easier than even I thought.
Dodgers won the west for how many years straight? However, 0 world series championships. As a fan, just winning the division isn’t enough.
Even the Rockies could get hot for 60 games and win the division. This is baseball, so I wouldn’t get too comfortable.
The Rockies are going to win 35 games, based on what will become known as the Monfort Equation:
x/60 = 94/162
Really though just get hot for 20 games and play 500 ball in the other 40 and you’ve got a great shot at making it.
Well this year really isn’t baseball, is it? At best it will be a glorified exhibition season. At worst the team with the fewest infections wins it.
Still won’t win the world series.
Although, would be hilarious if the Giants, Dbacks, Rockies, or Padres go on a run and win the west.
Dodgers traded away Verdugo, Downs, and Wong for less than a half season of Betts and Price isn’t even playing this year.
Ahh the proverbial best in the division, being a Tigers fan, I can promise you that means nothing. I saw many years of Division Champs go down in defeat with probably the best team in baseball (on paper)
Golden, hysterical that he adopted premature babies and chose to take care of his family by not risking their health?
Those division title banners are really starting to pile up next to that moldy 1988 WS flag.
Man, I wonder if this guy’s a Dodgers fan?
Russell Martin is the best choice to be the starting catcher. The Giants should sign Martin and why not Yasiel Puig should be also a Giants to have a higher chance to compete. If the Giants don’t play well then Puig can be traded.
White Sox may be willing to move McCannon.
For some reason, I read that as Nick Cannon. At this point, why not give him a shot too?
Wonder if the cards and giants could line up on a trade, cards have a couple good catching prospects close to ready( or ready in knizer). Wonder what a fair trade for knizer would look like. Losing knizer wouldnt cripple the cards since they will probably keep yadi until hes 50(not saying that’s the best thing) and have Herrera waiting in the wings.
I don’t think the Giants are looking for prospects, they have Bailey and Bart. They’d probably like a veteran defense-first catcher, as this article states Russel Martin is a good fit. I personally wouldn’t be opposed to letting Heineman start the majority of games though.
yeah i am fine too with some combo of heineman, bart and minor league guys.
While I understand Posey is a good dude off the field and a 3 time champion on it, I still feel that long term he altered the game for the worse. Collisions at home were one of the most exciting plays in the sport. He did a crappy job blocking the plate and paid the price when a game was on the line. That injury was more his fault than anyone else, but what happens? The MLB rushed to protect their golden boy and created the *Posey Rule’ eliminating home plate collisions.
Meanwhile, Scott Cousins received death threats and was out of the league within the next two years. And make no mistake the end of his career certainly feels like he was black listed out of the league. And for what? Wanting to win a game when it was on the line and for ultimately not being a superstar player.
That is absurd. Don’t be one of these clowns that goes after Posey for his footwork or placement. Posey was not blocking the plate- go watch. Cousins was a jobber fringe big leaguer who took a run at Posey in a game in May. Besides that, Posey didn’t have anything to do with the rule change. Every pro sports league is revising rules for player safety- you know why? Because when a nobody potentially details a stars career it is bad for business. Blame dollars. Not Posey.
‘Don’t be one of these clowns that goes after Posey for his footwork or placement.’
Except one of the ‘clowns’ that criticized just that was Johnny Bench. He was openly criticized for these reasons by quite literally the greatest catcher that ever played the game.
Some excerpts from an ESPN Article:
“Giants general manager Brian Sabean had criticized Cousins on his weekly radio show, calling the play malicious and unnecessary. Sabean also said ‘if I never hear from Cousins again, or he doesn’t play another day in the big leagues, I think we’ll all be happy.'”
“I teach my kids to stay away from the plate when you don’t have the ball so the runner actually sees home plate and his thought is, slide,” said Bench, who has undergone hip replacements on both legs in the past seven years after a 17-year career that ended in 1983. “But Buster is laying in front of home plate, and it’s like having a disabled car in the middle of a four-lane highway. You’re just going to get smacked.”
“Show them the plate,” Bench said. “You can always catch the ball and step, or step and catch the ball, as long as you’ve got the runner on the ground. And if you have the runner on the ground, there’s less chance of any severe collision.”
Full article :
espn.com/mlb/news/story?id=6625504
Make believe you’re going to intentionally walk the batter than zip strike three in there while he’s out to lunch. Show him the dugout.
Hey Whyhayzee, was this post supposed to go somewhere else? Am I missing something?
Let me educate the millions of misinformed. The catcher protection rule came into play after catcher Alex Avila was seriously hurt some time after posey was hurt. Bochy doughy a rule change with the league after poseys injury butnothing happened. Bochys request went to Joe Torre who was the guy that could get something done but, again, he did nothing.
The Avila gets hurt and that’s when the rule changed. Btw, Avilas father is an executive for the league.
The rule is called the Posey rule but people who are misinformed. It should be called the Avila rule.
Bochy *sought…
Article by Grant Brisbee from March 11, 2016:
mccoveychronicles.com/2016/3/11/11202432/buster-po…
Here’s an excerpt:
“Here’s a timeline:
May 25, 2011 – Buster Posey injured
July 8, 2011 – Baseball doesn’t do anything about home plate collisions
March 19, 2012 – Baseball doesn’t do anything about home plate collisions
August 12, 2012 – Baseball doesn’t do anything about home plate collisions
May 25, 2013 – Baseball doesn’t do anything about home plate collisions
October 17, 2013 – Alex Avila injured in the ALCS
October 18, 2013 – Baseball says waaaaaait a sec, these things are dangerous!
February 24, 2014 – Baseball introduces a new rule on home-plate collisions”
It was the Posey rule. Nobody would have cared to change the rule if it was Avila getting hurt. Posey was the star, that was the push. Please don’t re-write history. Avila wasn’t going to move the needle one bit.
He did. Cuz of pops. That’s the point of the article. Not surprised you posted this tetley cuz typically you show little in the way of reading comprehension. The rule came into being 3 years after the posey injury. It did not get inmplemented when it was requested. But it did get implemented after Avila was creamed.
If you’re only able to recognize the name posey because it’s a star name that’s your ignorance
Papa Avila has no clout either. As a Giants fan I realize you are deep in denial. Altogether now….
This is the Buster Posey rule. This is a game traditionally prepared to protect their stars. If you can’t recognize that, you can take back your ignorance.
I know, you’re right, we should bring back violent, injury inducing collisions to entertain you.
Ses – before your culture weakened the game, a defensive player standing in-front of a bag would be crunched regardless of the base. Obstruction is a rule. If a player wanted to avoid contact they’d have to get off the baseline.
Posey better watch out, he might get Wally Pipp’d.
Posey has aged quite poorly. He’s a 45 year old in a 33 year old’s body bag.
He’s a catcher.. so there is that..
Body bag?
Tropic, he had hip surgery before last year. Pretty sure he wasn’t fully recovered. In fact, he wasn’t expected to be ready to play until June. So he “took one for the team” by playing too early.
Hip injuries have happened to younger players than him. It’s got nothing to do with “ag(ing) poorly”. Ever hear of Bo Jackson?
Aged poorly? Lame
Perfect. Posey should have no problem catching 130+ games in 2021 by your logic.
You just compared Posey to Bo Jackson? So you are saying Posey is done? Hopefully Bart will be ready soon.
The only option to replace Posey as starting C is Bart. With no minor league season how do you not hand him the job? It would be incredibly stupid to give playing time to some stopgap vet over him.
Best option for Giants is to to get a 1 year option C when teams downsize to their 26 man team. There will be plenty of C options out there available for a very cheap price. Why pressure a prospect to take over. The Giants will most likely not contend for a playoff spot so just get a 1 year option at C. No need to make a big trade since they have 2 C options for the future in the minors.
So starting the service clock a year early, losing a year of control, and doing it all in this 60 game crap shoot season where you don’t expect to contend is smart to you?
What you mean is there’s no good reason NOT to get a stopgap vet…
“Starting the service clock” is such a lame excuse espically for a big market team. If Bart pans out, they will pay him no matter what year he would hit free agency. The man is 23.5 years old. Have you seen how young the game is getting? He is more than old enough to be a starting C.
Bart is not ready, service clock or not. It’s catcher, not some less important position where you can afford some on-the-job-training. Trying that at catcher could be a disaster. If he isn’t ready to handle a major pitching staff, he could do way more harm than any possible good. The Giants know this and that’s exactly why they want him in MiLB, or whatever learning structure they have for developing players.
Last year Scott and Tyler Heineman came up around the same time to debut for the Rangers and Marlins respectively Since they are brothers, they were trying to see who could hit their first home run faster. Scott did, and I remember Tyler gave him an “applause” of sorts over social media. Now, Scott is trying to be a backup outfielder for Texas, and Tyler, a backup catcher for San Fran.
Joey Bart should not be an option. In six years, the Giants should be contending and Bart should be a major contributor. I guess they might rush Bart if it is felt Bailey may have more promise. Best solution is to sign Russell Martin.
Agreed. There’s no point in starting the clock in a meaningless year. Keep him on the 60 man and have him developing with the coaches and the rest of the prospects.
GM Goat if you had it your way you would have had Vlad, Bo and Biggio permanently in Buffalo in 2019.
Wait a week, bring up Bart, gain a year of control. This is not difficult.
Only makes sense to rush Bart now if you want him starting in 2021.
Does it not make sense to use 2021, hopefully a 162 game season, to call Bart up and have him split the year side by side with Posey? All for no service time cost? Get 100-something games of experience/training then?
That’s not true in the slightest. You’re back to trying to make arguments that you are having with yourself. Please explain how those situations are any similar. All three had significantly more time in the minors. Please, don’t speak for me.
And the Blue Jays lost 95 games in 2019.
Call up Bart after 7 days, like Vlad in 2019, gain an extra year of control. There is the similarity. Having Bart play zero games isn’t going to help him. Playing 35-40 will be a huge boost, like it was for the mentioned young players.
Sorry for speaking for you. Trying to help you make sense.
Six years? Lol their farm system was just recently ranked top 10 and a lot of their prospects are getting close. More like 3 years, 4 if you’re stretching.
I don’t think he’s saying they won’t be contenders until then, but that they’ll be contending in six years still, when his normal free agency would’ve been up.
The White Sox have a plethera of catchers available after Yasmani Grandal, ranging from solid (James McCann), to talented but unproven but ready prospects (Zach Collins and Seby Zavala), to organizational guys that produce numbers but are blocked (Yermin Mercedes).
Depending on what they’re willing to give up, they should be able to pry something from the White Sox.
Why would the Giants try to trade for a catcher for a useless season when they have an all-star who will play in 2021 and a prospect ready in 2021 as well?
Could I interest you in a Jacob Nottingham?
I say wait 20 games, see how Bart does in camp and the direction the team is going. If the team sucks and he’s progressing (however you can in camp) give him a 40 game tryout.
If they don’t play Joey Bart, they might as well get Buster from Arrested Development
It should be (and will be) Bart, they just have to win the service time game, which will take 6 days. So, it’ll start off being Heineman and Brantley and then one of them will go away for Bart. Now, can Bart handle the actually catching duties full time? Who knows, cut that’s why the NL has a DH. Dude has been raking all spring and just hit a oppo double off Cueto yesterday. He’ll be up on August 1.
Tigers have Catchers to trade??
i know its a questionable choice, but Bruce Maxwell hit quite well in Mexico last year. i think him, Brantley, and Heineman you have a passable group.
Nah. They already have 40-man issues. It’ll be Heineman and Brantley until Bart comes up around August 1. Maybe Russell Martin, but that’s as far as I think they go.
Maxwell can hit but his defense is below par and not the brightest bulb. those are the 2 reasons he is not on the A’s team anymore. His play calling is not very good.
Saying any team isn’t going to contend this year is ignorant. 60 games is so short it could be anyone. This isn’t even enough games to make it to the all star break. Every single team should be going for it this year. Having a prospect come up this year messes with service time, but with no fans in the stands, altered rules, and a localized schedule, the Giants should be fielding Bart, and all their young guys. If any team could come from no where and win it this year, it’s the Giants.
Any team can make it to the playoffs in 60 games but any team can’t just go out and win the World Series. The Giants lineup, rotation and bullpen all stink. You could give them a playoff spot right now and it wouldn’t matter. How on earth would that roster win a championship.
I don’t know what All-Star/HOFer is at 1B but time for Buster to get there. Or pray for the NL DH.
Is Nick Hundley available. He looked good as a Giant a while back?
Nick retired and went to work for the Commisshioners office.
I think Mike Zunino could be available. He’s an excellent catcher who had a really bad year at the plate last year but was above average at the plate in 2018 and most of his career. Zunino is a free agent at seasons end. Tampa Bay has 3 veteran backstops all to usher in their young stud Ronaldo Hernandez. Zunino is likely expendable. He’s my vote.
Russell Martin would be fine. He was probably waiting for a team to lose their starting catcher. But still, he’s going to hit .220 and be okay behind the plate. Maybe Rob Brantley could do that.
Aramis Garcia is about 4 weeks away coming back from hip surgery
This is a big test for Farhan on what to do with Joey Bart but there’s an easy solution:
Sign Bart to a Major League contract and buy out at least one if his free agent seasons, two if possible.
As a Giant fan, I want to see the future now. And I don’t want to hear how Bart needs more time in the minors; that’s just code for service time manipulation. Let Bart cut his teeth in the majors. WE NEED SOMETHING to root for this year. Playing Bart this year would create immediate interest and boost ratings. Signing Bart to a Major League deal for the next 7 years gives him financial security and a path to free agency on his terms; waiting until next year after a month and limiting his service time would amount to a similar financial result for Bart anyways.
The Giants are not expected to compete this year but bringing up Bart would give Giant fans hope and cause to celebrate even if the Giants are still a middle of the pack team.
Do it Farhan, it’s your move.
They also have another catcher in their system. Tyink his bane is Armais Garcia. Idk I pulled a purple refractor of him out of a hobby box a couple of weeks ago. Think I remember hearing he has pop.
Bruce Maxwell
Stop… just stop…
Really would love the Braves to attempt to trade flowers to them for whatever and the Braves use some of our young guys as backups this season. The Braves love for flowers as always kinda bothered me. He’s fine, but idk. Can’t hit and can’t throw people out. And personally I don’t think he calls games well. At what point is pitch framing really worth crushing those other skills
This is exactly the type of situation that annoys me about Farhan. He refuses to resign Vogt, who was extremely serviceable last season. Now that we no longer have Posey for the season, we do not have any major league worthy catchers on our roster. On top of that, they are not willing to play Bart. In my opinion Farhan can’t seriously say they are trying to be competitive this season unless they do something to address the catcher position. If they are planning on just throwing in the towel, this season, fine. But don’t try and convince your fans that you are trying to be competitive while starting any of the catchers we currently have on the roster.
Bring back fan favorite Andrew Susac