The Angels’ 2020 season hasn’t gone according to plan whatsoever, and at 9-20 on the year they look like one of the few clear-cut sellers in the game. A faulty starting rotation is again at the root of the issue, as the team’s starters rank 28th in MLB with a combined 5.84 ERA.
None of that can be blamed on right-hander Dylan Bundy, however, whose offseason acquisition looks like one of the best moves made by any team. But Bundy is only controlled through the 2021 season, and with the current campaign looking lost for the Halos, teams have already been placing calls on the right-hander’s availability, per USA Today’s Bob Nightengale.
The 27-year-old Bundy doesn’t have the blazing fastball he had as an elite prospect who was selected by the Orioles with the No. 4 overall pick back in 2011, but he hasn’t needed it to dominate in 2020. Through 38 1/3 frames, Bundy has logged an outstanding 44-to-8 K/B ratio while pitching to a 2.58 ERA and 3.06 FIP. He ranks in the 80th percentile or better in fastball spin rate, hard-hit rate, opponents’ exit velocity, expected batting average against and expected wOBA, per Statcast. Bundy is throwing his slider more than ever before and has scaled back the usage of his four-seam fastball to a career-low 30.1 percent. His 38 1/3 innings are the third-most of any Major League pitcher, among whom he ranks 10th in bWAR and 13th in fWAR.
Because his prior seasons have been punctuated by inconsistency, Bundy has yet to see his arbitration price balloon up too high. He’s on a $5MM salary for 2020, which is prorated to $1.8MM. Of that sum, he’s still owed about $914K. Bundy would be owed one final arbitration raise before he hits the open market following the 2021 season, but it’s still a plenty reasonable price if clubs buy into the new and improved version he’s presented so far this year.
Making a trade of this nature would be a difficult about-face for an Angels club that has been in the market for top-end pitching for years and seems to have found it in Bundy, but his dwindling club control will likely force the team to make a tough decision. The package the Angels gave up to get Bundy was not regarded as overly expensive in terms of prospect capital, and it’s eminently feasible that GM Billy Eppler could get more than he parted with to acquire Bundy in the first place.
Bundy is very arguably one of the top arms on the market, and that’s particularly true given his control beyond 2020. Teams are expected to be stingier than ever in terms of what they’re willing to part with for pure rental players in 2020, as they’d only be acquiring one month of said player for a crack at an expanded postseason that some view as something of a novelty.
wild bill tetley
Sell high Halos.
Maybe leaving Camden and the AL East along with good health has helped Bundt. He has the stuff to be successful.
I agree it’s been hard for the angels to get good pitching, so either sell him or keep him go out get a number one and a number 3 and they’ll have something next year Bc adell is going to be a monster with trout!!
wild bill tetley
Will be tough to find a #1 in free agency. Angels will have to take the trade route.
I dunno- Trevor Bauer is sure pitching like one right now. Feel free to begin the Bauer is not an SP1, SP2 or SP3 discussion…..maybe talk about how he’s a punk for throwing a ball over the CF wall? Personally I’d love the dude to be on the M’s pitching staff against your Angels 😉 We need all the help we can get
Seems like the AL West has been CAKE for Bundt
You mean the A’s been CAKE for Bundy.
Are you saying the A’s are not very good?
In 19.1 innings against Oakland this season, Bundy has allowed just three earned runs. It sure seems like he has their number.
I think the Angels need to ask themselves how realistic a championship run truly is next season. If they decide to go all in and the market remains stingy, it might be best to hold back. With a questionable future for Houston, Oakland seems to be the only divisional opponent definitely better than Anaheim next season. Besides, while this season has been awful this far, they’re definitely not THIS bad. Their pythagorean record insists they should be at least three wins better.
On the other hand, Trout, Rendon, and Ohtani are controllable for the foreseeable future. If they need to step back and retool for a couple of seasons, perhaps a Bundy trade could accelerate that effort. The rotation is still injury-prone and volatile, while no true aces lie on the free agent market.
I think it all depends upon the return. Bundy has always had the tools to break out and Mickey Callaway seems to have unlocked his potential. If the Angels are blown away by a package that could help win within the next couple of years, the sacrifice makes sense. Otherwise, I would stand pat and hope for better luck next year.
As for those calling for Adell to be traded, it’s way too early to call him a bust. The kid’s been up for about three weeks and didn’t even blow anyone away in the upper minors. Besides, his trade value wouldn’t be especially high right now anyway. I’m no Angels fan, but those are just a few thoughts of mine. I’ve always been interested in how different front offices operate and you seem to be a pretty knowledgeable fan
No, it’s a play on words because Bundt is the name of a type of cake.. But, maybe you already knew that.
I agree Houston is on the down end but I wouldn’t write them off. Next year anything can happen too.
Can the Rangers please sell high on Lance Lynn now?
The Angels are being smart, they hired a pitching wizard, and now can go out and get anybody with a little talent, and flip them for prospects.
What do y’all think the Angels could get for Bundy? And for that matter, what could Texas get for Lynn? A local Rangers writer proposed a trade of Lance Lynn to the Yankees for Andujar and Frazier. Is that reasonable?
So many questions.
Yankees are not giving up both Andujar and Frazier for Lynn. Especially after Lynn wasn’t good in NY before
Are there teams that still want Andujar and Frazier?
I think the yankees would jump at andujar and Frazier for Lynn. Lynn looks like a quality #2 at this point, maybe even a low end #1 of viewed with rosy glasses, and has another year at $10 million on his contract. Lynn only spent 2 months with the Yankees so I’m not sure that really matters but he pitched quite well there with a low 4s ERA and very good peripherals so if anything that would make him more appealing not less.
@jonnyzuck- I know Lynn is having a good season. But let’s not overrate him. On the Yankees right now he is a #3 or #4 starter at best. The Yankees might deal Andujar for him in a package, but Frazier likely wouldn’t be involved in the deal.
He was great last season, and he has had multiple great seasons in the past with St Louis. He has terrific fastball command this season, and also throws 3 different kinds of fastballs. He is a workhorse. And right now, he would be the 2 starter in New York. Tanaka and Paxton are both bigger names than Lynn, but there is no reason to be underrating him right now, he’s been awesome.
dave frost nhlpa
I’d wear a Boston hat if they traded either for Lynn.
Number 3-4 at best? He’s your best starter after Cole. Right now, he’s better than Paxton (who can’t stay healthy) and he’s better than Tanaka
That Yankee staff needs all the help they can get
I’d give Andujar and Frazier in a second
Yank4life: what type of drugs do you do on a daily basis? I mean, you find a way to be obnoxiously delusional about the value of your yankees more than anyone else, so I am surmisong drugs over stupidity.
Life is going to hurt….better get a helmet when reality does set in….
That seems to be a big overpayment from NY, especially when they’ve been so set on keeping Frazier over the past years (are we still calling him a prospect? He was involved with the Miggy brawl 3 years ago today!). — Edit: By the time I wrote this, people were already saying that wouldn’t be much from the Yankees so I guess IDK about Andujar + Frazier’s value… :p
I’d think for Bundy the Angels would want young arms. Maybe topping out at a B prospect, depending on the rest of the package. Bundy has a year of arbitration left and will probably make less than Lynn, so they would probably have similar asking prices.
Angels should absolutely sell high on Bundy. Either trade him or Heaney with the hopes of acquiring a STAR pitcher this offseason. No more mid rotation guys like Heaney trying to act like the staff ace. Gotta have at least one great starter in hopes of achieving playoff success (eventually… hopefully)…
Lance Lynn would bring back some serious talent due to him being under contract for next year at a reasonable price. He’s a better pitcher than Bundy, hands down. His original stint in NY went okay, but there were questions about his ability to pitch in NY, so I’m not sure if the Yankees will make a play for him. If they do, Clint Frazier certainly needs to be part of the deal and instead of Andujar, they should ask for a young pitcher back in return. They should ask for Frazier & Garcia and see if the Yankees will bite. Texas doesn’t need to move Lynn especially with their desire to compete next year so they will only deal him if they are blown away by an offer.
The Rangers say they want to compete next season, but that is all smoke and mirrors. We do not have near the offense to even contemplate about competing, and our owners already said they just flat out don’t want to spend money.
In yesterday’s chat somebody said Lynn for Sanchez and Andujar (I think), and that made this trade proposal seem like a lot less than I thought it was.
I wouldn’t really want one of the Yankees pitchers, because not only do we need more offense, but we have also plucked some good bargain deals out of free agency. Assuming we don’t re-sign Minor, and don’t accept the QO on Kluber, this is our rotation for 21′, without any additions.
Not good at all, but there’s some guys there. Cody looked terrific in his debut, Allard is a growing pitcher who has shown good potential, and Gibson seems like another Rangers steal. I expect us to go after starters in free agency for sure.
The problem is that pitching is much harder to find than offense. Unless you have a solid pitching pipeline like Detroit or Cleveland, you can’t trade a pseudo #1 SP like Lynn without getting a solid pitcher back in return. It will set them back even further than they are today.
Even though he is wildly inconsistent, I don’t see the Yankees moving Sanchez unless they make a separate deal for another catcher. They just don’t have the catching depth in their system. Texas is in the driver’s seat when it comes to dealing Lynn, so they should only deal him if they get a sizable return like Frazier & Garcia or something comparable.
True, but this team just doesn’t have any bats on the horizon till later in 21′ when Huff and maybe Jung come up. Taveras will this season, but he’s not an impact bat. Though the Rangers do have many starters on the horizon, Hearn, Cody, Allard, Crouse, (maybe) Palumbo, Burke (hopefully). All I’m saying is that we should stack up on bats, and if we do what we say and actually infuse young into the lineup, this could be our lineup with Andujar and Frazier:
LF C. Frazier
3B T. Frazier
I feel like that lineup, plus our young starters, could be something to look forward to. Especially with Jung and Huff coming up for 3b and catcher. We can get a good look and who needs to be starting games for us, and go from there in free agency.
BTW, I’m not trying to downplay any of what you’re saying, but this is just what I would want.
@rangers29- I guess I can give you Miguel Andujar, Michael King, and Jonathan Holder or Ben Heller for Lance Lynn & Mike Minor. Let me know. I know your not really high on Minor from our past discussions.
Yank4Life – I know you love your Yankees, but you are seriously overvaluing Andujar. His value has never been lower and he cannot be the headliner in a deal for a decent starting pitcher. Not only is he slumping at the plate, he cannot play anywhere in the field. No one is giving up a decent starting pitcher for a young DH who had one good season, but is batting under .200 since he got injured. It’s just not going to happen. It will have to be Clint Frazier plus a Top 10 prospect to pry Lynn loose from Texas.
@Dorothy_Mantooth- it really doesn’t matter what team I love or whatever. I’m telling right now the Yankees aren’t dealing both Clint Frazier & Miguel Andujar for Lance Lynn. It’s definitely not happening. I can definitely see Andujar in a package for Lance Lynn or Dylan Bundy though. It looks like Frazier is staying and won’t be traded away especially with the injury concerns to Giancarlo Stanton. Red Thunder will likely be a keeper for next season when Gardy’s team option is likely not going to be picked up.
Keep in mind returns this year are going to probably be less than before.
Andujar & Frazier is definitely too steep, especially with Frazier hitting the ball the way he is. I think the Yankees might still think even Andujar for a 1 1/2 of Lynn would be too high as well. As a Yankee fan, I think Andujar is a fair price. If I was the Rangers, I’d ask for Andujar and another Top 10-15 SP arm from the Yankees farm.
Yankees are my team, but the Rangers are actually the team I follow the 2nd most – I really hope they will get off this dumb “We wanna compete in ’21 BS. Their lineup has been garbage, and really without Lynn, this team is a joke. They need as many “lottery tickets” as possible. I’m a bit scared this years market won’t offer as much, and they might be looking at a Stroman-type return for Lynn. Which isn’t bad, it’s just not what you would usually get.
Get some more prospects; Run out Jung, Huff, Gallo, Calhoun, and Solak soon and keep rebuilding. This team really needs to be doing all it can to find these value bats that other teams have extras of, the Voit’s/Andujar’s/Solak’s/Cronenworth’s of the world.
Not to mention this team REALLY needs some top end prospect talent. I think Maximo Acosta & Luisangel Acuna might finally be that, but the Rangers could really use another Top 5 pick or something similar to get that top-line starter, or superstar hitter kind of talent this team sorely needs (Gallo can be a stud, but I think I’d feel more comfortable with an even better guy to lean on. The more the merrier).
I kind of want us to try young talent out this season, and maybe suck, but also go get a Vandy pitcher in the draft next season while we’re at it. Kumar is the dream lol.
Andujar and Frazier to Tex for Lynn? Besides that it’s unlikely NY would do this, man that would be a terrible way to build a winner in Texas… with two DHs. Both of those guys are absolute butchers in the field.
The Angels being smart may end when the owner gets impatient. Then he may force the better baseball minds that he employs to change course and deviate from a more prudent path.
Hey paddy, take a look at Stripling and Pederson this year?
I asked a friend from New York about a deal for Lynn where the Rangers got just whst you asked and a lottery ticket picking prospect. He laughed long and hard.
The Human Rain Delay
I dont understand why you want to sell Lynn so bad
Why not try and extend him this offseason? That sounds like a lot more lucrative prospect than selling him
Because they can’t wave a magic wand and “just extend” this guy or that guy. The player has to agree to it.
Cuz you don’t give a 33 year old an extension, especially when rebuilding…extending a player on the wrong side of 30 based on a current small sample sizes hot streak would be less than prudent… that’s trade bait
Can any FO get a lot for a 4 week rental? We don’t have any evidence yet. At least the Phillies got Hembree for another year in the Workman/Hembree trade. It will be interesting to see which FO blinks first- to see which one is the ‘guinea pig’ to set the market on a 4 week rental. Personally I don’t think teams will give up much value at all. One could say that’s even true of Boston’s return for the W/H trade
I just read Bundy is controlled though next year- well then! That’s entirely different. Personally I think LAA needs to keep him because you need pitching for next year- you’re not in a rebuild, why get rid of a good SP when you’ll need that for next year?
Because Bundy has never been a good pitcher. He topped out at average in his first season and became rather bad. Now they can sell him to a sucker who thinks the most recent 38 innings outweigh the previous 600.
Makes sense to trade a decent pitcher when you have lots of great pitchers on your roster. Lol
Best case scenario, we trade him for some young pitching prospects with some legit ceiling. Other than that, you keep him and try to extend him thinking lightning strikes twice.
@FishyHalo- Kyle Muller or Tucker Davidson from the Braves is definitely a good start of a package for Lance Lynn.
i like al conin
I can’t see them getting enough in return. But yeah, this would have to be the path, if at all, and they’d have to be MLB ready next year. They aren’t rebuilding. But right now they’d have Ohtani, Bundy, Heany, Canning and possibly Detmers. They need at least one more ace, probably 2, and just as importantly, a couple or more superior bullpen pieces. The pitching is a mess.
Fishy- let’s see what 4 weeks of Bundy brings you- do you let him go one more start to try to erase the memory of that SF start? This will be the 3rd time he’s facing Seattle, always risky seeing the same lineup 3 times in 4 weeks regardless how bad a team is. The Ms have scored 38R’s over their last 7 games…..
My bad Fishy- just saw he’s there next year also. Besides, you shouldn’t sell him imo.
Don’t sell on Bundy. Angels have dying for a bonafide starter and they got one for cheap. Ride it out.
Sell a mixture of Heaney, Tehran, Canning, Simmons, Castro, Upton, any part of the bullpen, ANY minor leaguers, including Adell, for a couple years of control arms. Namely, my first call would be to the Indians, who seem to be just fine without Clevinger and Plesac. They need OF help. Eating a large part of Upton’s salary, Adell plus whatever else they want from what I stated they could and should part with Clevinger and Plesac.
Time to be bold and IF, a big IF, the Indians are disenfranchised with those two starters for breaking protocol, this might be the time to strike while the iron is hot.
I would like to see the angels trade Adell and Marsh and get Clevinger and Plesac.
Doing trades like that is what has made the Angels a sub team… So if you are not an Angel fan, I’m sure you would love to do that.
There are people who wanted to trade Marsh for Kluber.
I would agree, generally – but Clevinger & Plesac would be an absolutely massive get lol. That is two-bonafide starters. Even then walking away from Marsh & Adell that easily would be a bit tough to process.
adell is a sub player..so I’ll take anyone other then him tbh
No matter how good Adell or Marsh are, they are still just an OF prospects. OF prospects are not that hard to come by, unless you are Cleveland. The Angels have had the top outfielder in the game for a decade and usually had two good complementary players next to him and done next to nothing with him. You don’t win in today’s MLB with OF prospects, you win with dominant starting pitching and a dominant bullpen. I make that trade 10 times out of 10.
what are you, cal? a 3 year old?
Cal is 4 if we’re lucky. He’s been sour on Adell since his call up 2 weeks ago. I think the only thing smaller than his sample size is baseball knowledge.
Halo11fan- to your point, it was your Angels that traded Clevinger away in the first place. Tell you what though- your team is dying for a SP with the talent of a Plesac or Clevinger. It seems like your pitching has been snake bit for nearly a decade!
I would not like to see that happen lol. Too early to tell on Adell. It’s literally been 2 weeks. Marsh is going to be a beast. Trade Simba and let Fletch takeover at short. Trade Upton for nothing, salary relief. Trade Tehran for whatever you can get. Trade relievers who have any kind of value. Regroup in the offseason and try again at the free agent pitchers, or make low key trades like Bundy.
Fletch is a adequate Shortstop at best. That would be a huge mistake.
Simba is on the wrong side of 30 and is injured all the time. I don’t think it be a mistake at all. It’s a trade off, but we get something out of Simba rather than losing him in free agency
Adequate? Small sample but he’s top 5 in defensive runs saved (I think lol)
Cookmeister, very small sample size. But he doesn’t have the arm and doesn’t pass the eye test.
If the Angels lose Simmons, they get worse at second base and shortstop. It’s not really a great way to get better.
Simmons struggles offensively, is often hurt, and is a FA on the wrong side of 30. Fletchers arm might not be great but good fielder and range and good instincts. Not sure what games you’re watching.
Simmons is without debate one of the top three defensive players in baseball. He’s almost 31 and still should be good for awhile.
The Angels are much better with Simmons at Short and Fletcher at second than with Fletcher at short and Rengifo and company at second.
Keeping Simmons is a no brainer and after watching the Angels with Simmons out, that should be pretty obvious.
Both will be good. But when we look back in 15 years, I’d be willing to bet Marsh will end up being the better player over Adell. I just hope it’s with the Angels.
MC Homer. I’ll take that bet. And I bet both make an all-star team.
Don’t know why this needs to be repeated once a week, but…
Upton has a full NTC. The reason he re-signed with the Angels is he lives in PHX and wants to be close to family. He will not approve a trade anywhere, assuming some team wanted him in the first place.
LOL thats a huge overpay.
Clevigner given his remaining years of control would likely net Kyren Paris (Or Deveraux) and Goodwin. THey asked for Marsh and the Angels said no. PLesac pitched like 5 innings and was never a top prospect.
Goodwin is a terrible OF. Watch him this weekend miss 2 balls and ran 2 other bad routes in the OF. He is a future DH. I doubt he has much trade value other than a platoon player.
Kinda think you’re confusing Adell and Goodwin.
i like al conin
They might have been able to trade Adell for Clevinger, or some sort of package, before the season. But now Clevinger has 1 less year remaining while Adell still has 6 so that’s even more unlikely now.
Definitely more unlikely now. Especially given Cleveland players weren’t ready to bring them back in their locker room. I think people are overestimate Clevinger and Plesacs value right now
Al Conin, unless it’s August 24 2022 you would be wrong grasshopper- Clevinger has more than 1 year remaining, in fact he still has two full seasons. He’s not an UFA until his age 32 season in 2023.
The Angels need to trade for Clevinger. They can give the Indians an overrated, mediocre reliever who is almost ready to retire. Just like the Indians traded to the Angels for Clevinger.
Hopefully the Braves are calling on him, we have some prospects with tons of control remaining and while they haven’t been great to this point they do have potential and just need more consistent playing time. Would Bryse Wilson for Bundy get it done Angels fans?
stan lee the manly
It’s going to take more than one prospect. Bundy isn’t a rental, he’s got another year left. I would guess at least three pieces would have to be moved to land him.
The Angels will need great pitching prospects or no deal. They don’t have to trade Bundy. Bryse Wilson looks like nothing but a career minor league pitcher.
Wilson is only 22. Career milb? Lol. Ok, whatever.
I think Angels fans need to slow their roll on the possible return for Bundy. He has a 4.55 lifetime ERA. He has a whole 38-IP of superior pitching.
You are certainly not going to get a MacKenzie Gore or Casey Mize. Not a Doctor Sanchez, Matt Manning or Luis Patino either. If you are very, very lucky you may be able to get a Matthew Liberator or Josiah Gray type of return.
Javia. Slow their roll? What exactly are they asking for? And since you said fans, meaning plural, exactly how many fans are we talking about?
-“It’s going to take more than one prospect… I would guess at least 3 pieces would have to be moved to land him.”
-“The Angels will need GREAT pitching prospects or no deal.”
Do you think they Angels trade him for three prospects and not one of whom are in the top 100? I don’t.
One guy thought they needed a great pitching prospect? What’s top?
My guess is it would take a top 100 prospect to get Bundy. Maybe not even top 75. And if that’s all they Angels can get, maybe they shouldn’t do it.
The fact is, he does have one elite pitch, and one very good pitch. He also has one horrible pitch which he is learning not to throw in the strike zone.
And there is no way on God’s green the Angels could get Dustin May for him, but I think a Tony Gonsolin type is exactly the kind of prospect he should bring back.
Am I wrong?
No, I absolutely agree! A Tony Gonsolin on his own for Dylan Bundy is exactly the kind of deal I can see for him.
The Braves do not have time for guys to figure it out.
Would be hilarious to see Newcomb back with LAA – spinning some magic. Newcomb/Bryce would be a nice get.
bryce wilson of 17.54 fip? lmaolyao!
Deal him now before his next outing. His value is at its peak. The Angels need multiple pitchers to contend and are nowhere near that right now. Maybe they can get some good pitching prospects for next year.
Bundy has one elite pitch. One very good pitch and a horrible fastball. Bundy has moved out of Camden, but he stopped throwing his fastball in the middle of the plate and he throws it a lot less often.
His fastball is still hit hard, and his good pitches are not. If traded, I expect him to be effective. But what would the Angels trade him for?
Unfortunately we traded 4 pitchers for him. However his stock has rose, so we can definitely get more value out of him than what we traded him for. The comment above by jhawk I agree with, Bryce Wilson and another piece.
No thanks on Bryse Wilson. The Angels need great pitching prospects. His numbers are horrible in the majors.
no thank you!
That’s on them. They spent all their money on offensive and look for scrap heap defense
They looked for scrap heap relievers, not defense. Arte is too cheap to spend money on good relievers. The team he bought had a great bullpen. I guess he didn’t realize that was why they were winning.
RyÅn W Krol
You’re forgetting that K-Rod, Scot Shields, Brendan Donnelly, Ben Weber, Kevin Gregg were all making peanuts because they were either pre-arb or off the scrap heap. The only reliever they were paying anything close to big money to was Troy Percival, but he left less than a year and a half after Arte bought the franchise. The Angels were extremely lucky with that bullpen being so effective year after year.
Bundy and Goodwin to Phils for Moniak,Knapp,Medina,Irwin and so on?
Marsh and so on for Plesac?
Upton,Heaney to Dodgers for Ruiz,Beatty and so on?
Castro and Canning to Yankees for Chad Green and so on?
Simmons to a Team that needs a SS or Fletcher or Tommy La Salla to a team that needs a 2B?
Why would the Dodgers want Upton or Heaney? Heaney would be like their 9th best starter and I’d rather have Beaty than Upton..
Why is Fletcher on your list? The Angels are keeping him. They aren’t trading their whole roster. And nobody would want Upton. Besides, Eppler gave him a no trade clause so he has to approve the trade.
The Yankees really have zero reason to trade Green
Phillies wouldn’t give up so much for them
Cleveland wants an outfield bat right now, not one they’re gonna have to wait on.
No way are the Dodgers taking Uptons 50 million dollar contract and a back of the rotation starter for two promising controllable pieces.
You would need to add more to get Chad Green, not have the Yankees add more
Fletcher ain’t going anywhere, and I would be surprised if they got back a lot for two rentals in Simmons and La Stella
I was saying the Dodgers would be willing to take on a contract like Upton. For them to get Bundy it’s going to take like Goslin and May.
Did you seriously just say that? Gonsolin AND MAY for Bundy? May is currently one of the most valuable pitchers on the planet right now. Bundy is not.
Javia. I don’t think he meant both. But even Goslin or May
I don’t think Goslin is an overreach. It’s not like he’s a kid. Dustin May is not getable for Bundy.
Lmao Chad Green is literally one of the best bullpen arms in MLB this season, the Yankees would never trade him for a scrub like Canning. That would be like trading Bundy for J.A. Happ.
Eppler needs to swallow his pride and trade Bundy, Simmons, Castro, La Stella and (if they can get him to approve a trade and get someone to trade for him) Upton.
The Angels need Simmons. I’m not sure how any Angel fan can’t see that.
LaStella is one dimensional. Does anyone to give a nickle for a LH DH? If they find someone to give a prospect for Castro, fine, and who can they get for Bundy.
“The Angels need Simmons. I’m not sure how any Angel fan can’t see that.”
Simmons is a free agent at the end of the season .They can trade him then bring him back (like what the Yankees did with Aroldis Chapman 4 years ago).
“… and who can they get for Bundy?”
Based on the way he’s been pitching this year and the number of teams in need of quality pitching right now (especially quality pitching that can’t just walk after the season is over), probably quite a lot.
And they need to sign him. At the very least give him a qualifying offer, which is better than anything the Angels are likely to get for him.
But Simmons will likely take the QO. Which means he’s not going to be a free agent.
I’m not sure how an Angel fan can miss that.
And if you can get a lot for Bundy, then OK. I don’t think the Angels can.
You really think they won’t be able to get something better than a 2nd/3rd round sandwich pick for Simmons?
Simmons will take the QO and the Angels need Simmons.
And who do you think will pay for a Shortstop like Simmons. You think it’s going to be a team where it’s a 3rd round sandwich pick?
Don’t tell me you like Rengifo? No one should.
They don’t “need” Simmons. They’ve made the playoffs without him in the past and they’ll make the playoffs without him again in the future.
Anyway, QOing him isn’t the only way to get him.
White Sox, Braves, Mets and Marlins are teams that could realistically make the playoffs and could do with an upgrade at shorstop right now.
Trading Simmons doesn’t mean they have to use Rengifo at shortstop. They can bring Simmons back next winter.
Tim Anderson may have some defensive shortcomings, but he won the batting title last year, is batting 350/388/675, and is on a team-friendly contract with options through 2024. Unless he gets hurt, the White Sox don’t need an upgrade at SS right now.
Making the Angels weaker at short and second is not exactly the best way to go about building a team.
The Angels don’t have a second baseman now, which should be abundantly clear to all.
Angels need pitching above all else. You get what you can for what you have. Sell high. You’re not going to win with what you have. Simmons is good but not worth $20M annually. You guys already have a lot money locked into trout, Rendon and Pujols. Unload Pujols with Adell and maybe get a young, controlable ace in return??
@Halo11Fan trading Simmons doesn’t make them weaker at shortstop. At least after 2020.
Not signing Simmons makes them weaker at short.
I look at Simmons as a must sign. And if he wont sign, then give him a QO, which he wont turn down.
What big market team is looking for a shortstop?
I’ll say it again because you seem to be deliberately ignoring it.
Trading Simmons doesn’t mean they can’t sign him.
Simmons is OK with bat and very good on defense. They will only get a midlevel player for him because he is not QO.
I think it’s pretty certain the Angels will QO him if they don’t trade him
Simmons missed 6” games last year, and has only played a handful this year. Why can’t Angels fans see this? Because he isn’t there 1/3 of the time.
As much as I like Simmons, the Angels could bring in Galvis on a three year deal for less than it will cost them on a one year deal on a QO for Simmons. No Galvis isn’t on the same level defensively as Simmons. But allows them more money to spend on other needs.
If the Angels can find someone to take on Upton’s contract, they should take $0.50 on the dollar for Bundy. There are some decent free agent pitches next year (Strohman, Bauer, etc.) who have performed better than Bundy over their careers and they can use the Upton money to sign one or two of them. If they hold on to Bundy, he’s a serious regression candidate next year in hopefully a full 162 game season.
It’s more than likely that no one will take Upton’s contract, so if that’s the case, the Angels need to get a major league ready, young starter back for Bundy, like a Devi Garcia from NY.
About Upton. I can’t believe a 31 year old player with his past just died. I don’t know how that’s possible.
Upton turns 33 this week. The Angels are the best team at paying players big bucks for past accomplishments (Pujols, Upton, Cozart, etc.). Most true Angels fans hated that Upton contract when it was signed and rightfully so. I can’t believe he is signed through 2022. Albatross doesn’t even begin to describe his contract at this point in time.
He died at 31. He’s still dead at 32. I still can’t believe it.
“Most true Angels fans hated that Upton contract when it was signed.”.
You’re a better poster than that.
He didn’t sign with the Angels. They traded for him. Most Angel fans liked the trade And they extended him one year at a lower AAV, which few had an issue with.
wild bill tetley
Technically Upton DID sign with the Angels. A mini extension of his deal with Detroit.
Technically the Angels drafted Grichuck ahead of Trout. But they really didn’t.
Angles can consider using Bundy as a way of salary dump by packaging him with Upton while searching for good SP during the offseason.
wild bill tetley
That’s right Halo. They did draft Grichuk ahead of Trout. And they signed Upton. Accountability, look it up and have some.
Halofan- what about Kris Davis on the A’s. Here’s a guy who was mashing 40+ HR’S a couple o f yrars ago. Now he can’t buy a HR.
That’s considered a bad contract too.
Oof.. they are stuck with Upton until they release him. Even if he shows some good signs of life, I don’t think anyone is touching that contract.
Simmonds is very undervalued because of his injury, it would be crazy if Epp couldn’t get a 2/24 done.
Also the Angels have been pretty unlucky. Not only is their pitching track to league average exactly on advanced stats (and is very bottom on real), but if you take out the two Ohtani injury outings they are upper 3rd. The roster is good and I hope Arte gives Epp one more real year to get this done (even if its because he’s too cheap to hire a new GM in a year with lower revenue).
They should keep him for now, 29 bad games shouldn’t change the approach a franchise is taking. Plus, they’re too pot committed into going for it and trying to win so taking a step back in their rotation would not make much sense. They could always reconsider moving Bundy over the winter or next season.
I think with how hard of a time they are having building their rotation they’re going to need to be really blown away with the return. If you take him out of the equation next year they’re back to square one with their SP, but at least with him that’s something to build around.
Even if the return is a little better than what they gave up for him, if you’re bringing in prospects then you’re no better off in 2021. They would just be spinning their wheels and kicking the future date where they hope to compete out further. With all the money they’ve spent on offense I can’t imagine them wanting to wait until 2022 to try to compete again.
what is a reasonable return for him? any chance at Fraizier or Andujar?(I’m just asking, I know that may be crazy) maybe throw in Lastella (but I do love him!!)
Why would the Angels want Frazier or Andujar?
You put Cooperstown Frazier in an outfield with Mike Trout? That’s a first-ballot HOF outfield!
career 0.4 war for the hof? lmao!
Trade Bundy & Upton to the Yankees for Stanton. Salary relief for the Yankees and Stanton can take over Pujols status as the next overpaid Angel well past his prime! Wouldn’t put this past Eppler actually.
I know they arent needs but both high upside. simba is gone so maybe andujar to 2b and fletch at ss. Frazier can sit in left field full time. goody I love, but maybe look to trade him since he may be over achieving. upton… idk what to do there but he cant be starting
Trade him while he has value! Then send down Adell, his approach at the plate is the complete opposite of what he was doing in the minors.
So far, no interest in Al Bundy??
The Angels are in a tough spot. This year isn’t going well, so it make sense to be sellers. But with Trout, Rendon, and Ohtani, they are still in win-now mode in the near term, ie., 2021 and onwards. And their area of most weakness is starting pitching.
Under these circumstances, I don’t think they can trade Bundy for prospects. They need players, especially pitchers, who can contribute meaningfully in 2021. Bundy can be one of those players.
And while there will be some opportunities to acquire SPs in free agency, many other teams will also be looking to sign those SPs and there is no guarantee that the Angels will be able to sign the ones they want. So I say a bird in the hand (Bundy) is worth three in the bush (potential free agent signings).
The can and should trade other players, but not decent starting pitchers like Bundy who they control past this year.
The Human Rain Delay
Good post- Plus free agency is going to be littered with overpays for nominal guys like Jake Ordoozi – I think a better route these days is trading with an organazation thats in a re-build for Sp with a couple arb yrs left (2-3)-
Pitt/Mia have some pieces that would fit really well in Ana and probably wouldnt cost all that much
Its going to be tough to make hay with Sp in free agency when your paying 4 bats 125 mill …. They gotta trade imo
Indians fan here, so my view is objective. Why in God’s name would a team that lacks SP trade away one of their best performing SP? Asking for a friend. These Yankee fans thank think they can call any team that has a piece they want and get it with their cast offs and scrubs crack me up.
I would think that the Angels would be more inclined to acquire another SP to go along with Bundy, but what do I know.
The only reason to keep Bundy is his team control and everyone else in the pitching staff is replacement level.
On the other hand, trading him is selling high, and can possibly bring back a bunch of pitchers. If the angels do trade him, they must get pitching in return. Otherwise horrible move.
nobody is trading a handful of top pitching prospects for bundy. that’s why we should keep him.
The Angels should be trying to extend Bundy, not trade him. The way he’s reinvented himself looks like a model for durable success, and he’s young enough that a 3 year extension gives him some security while not foreclosing on another deal in his age 31 season.
If the Angels were to trade him, this looks a lot like the Marcus Stroman trade of last year – a pitcher with 1+ years of control, a high ceiling combined with a checkered track record, who was putting up a half season as good as any in his career. The Mets sent out two pitching prospects in the top ten (#5, #8) of their system. One (Kay) was MLB-ready, and one (Woods Richardson) was two years out.
If the Angels bite, that’s the sort of return they should aim for / expect. For example, if the Jays were to target Bundy, the Angels should expect something like Kay and Manoah in return.
wild bill tetley
Stroman had a very good 2017, a meh 2016 yet his years between 2014-2019 were better than Bundy’s career as a whole. If the Angels dealt Bundy to the Jays they would not receive a similar offer. The comparison wasn’t well thought-out.
@TorksTeeth you see, the problem with that is that the Angels can’t force Bundy to sign an extension. And based on his track record I’m not even sure they should want to.
The Human Rain Delay
I think they just might be fishing for a potential overpay, which this certainly isnt the year for –
I don’t see him movin whatsoever
Bundy and Adell for Joc, Ross and Mitch White.
The Yankees need to call Tigers. Boyd, Fulmer and Romine for Sanchez, Andujar, Frazier, Wade, and Holder. I don’t want Lynn had him before he can’t handle NY.
I hate the ego of Yankees fans as if “handling NY” is really that tough or that different than any other big city. What difference does it make now anyway since there are no fans at the game. Playing in NY is about the same as playing in Dubuque, Iowa right now.
what a terrible trade that would be for the yankees, fulmer and boyd might be the two worst starting pitchers in baseball right now and romine stinks. there’s a reason they let him walk.
Say that to Sonny Gray he failed miserably in NY
that’s on larry rothschild, not sonny. sonny did fine in new york, as did lance lynn.
Angels & NL West
Should the Angels give Barria and Pena a couple of starts? They aren’t long term solutions, but they may be able to give you 5+ innings on 90-105 pitches. Pena needs to be stretched out, but Barria is good to go right now.
neither are ready for mlb yet.
Angels & NL West
… and Jose Suarez is ready?
Pena definitely is ready. Barria has had success in the majors, and with the clubs current record, they might as well give Barria, Pena, Sandoval, and Suarez a fair amount of innings to gain experience. This year is lost. Time to trade the vets on expiring deals, and and let the kids play
They must be bringing Pena along slowly.
Besides the ACL, was he not late to camp?
He’s been an ok starter the last 2 years.
Where’s JC Ramirez? I heard he was back with the team and velocity has returned.
The Angels need to be adding to the bullpen, not subtracting from it.
Neither are ready? Barria has a solid rookie campaign 2 years ago, was shuffled back and forth last year and struggled (understandably). Pena was arguably the best pitcher last year, ended in an ACl tear
In order to be any good Barria has to be an extreme ground ball pitcher and would have to have excellent control.
He’s not. So right now Barria is fodder.
Cash in and look towards 2021.
we need a starting pitchers for next season. only way we trade bundy or anyone else is to receive just about ready starting pitchers.
@Vizionaire, I think you’re spot on. They would have to get multiple pitchers who could help the big league team in 2021 as the return for trading Bundy otherwise it’s just a step backwards.
But as you mentioned above it’s not he is going to fetch multiple MLB ready top prospects, so realistically they should just hold on to him.
Angels & NL West
Fletcher has convinced me he has the goods to play SS fulltime. I say, let Simmons go this offseason and use the salary savings on a FA starter.
he doesn’t have the range to play ss full time. he is a perfect fit at 2b.
Vizionaire, he doesn’t have the arm either.
I wonder how any Angel fan want to make the Angels weaker at short and second by not resigning Simmons. I don’t get it.
Angels & NL West
Normally, I agree with you Vizionaire, but you keep saying Fletch doesn’t have the range and I keep seeing him make incredible plays every night. Also, his defensive metrics say otherwise based on comments from previous posters.
The Angels needed to sign Wheeler or someone eise this past off-season. Maybe they show Bauer the money this off-season
I don’t think I said range, but he certainly doesn’t have the range of elite shortstops. What is more obvious is he doesn’t have the arm.
Which wheeler are we talking about? Zach just signed 5 year deal
They aren’t looking at the metrics, they’re simply comparing him to Simmons which isn’t a fair comparable, nothing beats Simmons. And they’re simply using the “eye test,” as if they have the eye of an MLB scout….
yeah, he made a couple of amazing plays but he also doesn’t make plays on balls that are routine for simmons.
How long before Angels win another WS. They are wasting the prime years of Trout much like Mets with DeGrom. Trout should of joined Harper and played closer to home.
simmons’ career rf/9 is 4.54. rf/g is 4.36. fletcher has 4.02 and 3.12 respectively. eye tests confirmed!
another dumb yankee fan in a long line of those!
It doesn’t take much of an eye test to see he doesn’t have the arm. I don’t need a stop watch to see he doesn’t have elite speed. I don’t need to be much of a scout to see he doesn’t have much power.
I love Fletcher, but I love him at second base, leading off and being a pest.
Fletcher reminds me of David Eickstein, scrappy good player.
Toooldtocare. Absolutely. He’s a ballplayer. But Eckstein was never anything more than a serviceable defensive shortstop.
Mlbnyyfan because phillies are doing so much better lol. 3 place in the division and still have to pay jt…..harper is gonna regress time his usual .250 average and underwhelming defense.
Angels & NL West
You can’t just keep adding payroll. If you’re looking to sign an elite pitcher or two in the offseason, you need to reduce salary somewhere. And it won’t come by trading Pujols or Upton. Nobody will take them.
In my opinion, it makes sense to let a 30+ yo SS with a bad ankle go to save money for a starter. I do not believe Simmons will maintain his range over the length of his next contract with increased age and a bad ankle. If you have ever blown out an ankle, as Simmons has now done three times, you know you are more susceptible in the future. At best, his range will be diminished.
As a side note, Fletcher is far superior to Eckstein and if I’m not mistaken, Eckstein won two WS. Craig Counsell, another “fiesty” SS, won two WS, as well.
1, i have watched ozzie smith play and he was great but i think simmons is less flashy but better defensively. defensive war proves me right. and ozzie played above average defense at ss till 39. i seriously doubt simmons is going to regress 32-35 years old.
2, his ankle is not going to stay bad. he already ran well yesterday.
3, fletcher doesn’t have the range to play full time ss. he is a future gold glover at 2b. maddon is wasting time with running him all around.
4, la stella, rengifo and goodwin are not starter material. they are honestly just fillers. they should be back-ups not starters.
5, there are hardly any f/a starting pitchers deserving $20 million per year.
Angels & NL West
We can all agree the Angels need several SPs. If the Angels are going to take on additional SP salaries via trade or free agency, they will need to clear some space. Salaries coming off the books such as LaStella, Terhan and company will not be enough. It appears to me that Simmons will need to walk, as well.
Bauer’s name comes up most often. Won’t he get a $25-32 mil one year contract? Even if the Angels are lucky enough to sign him, Eppler will still need two more high end guys. They won’t come cheap.
Eppler can’t just keep adding salary. He’s going to have to make some tough decisions and I believe passing on Simmons will be one of them.
ohtani will come back in ’21.heaney will be here. detmers seems to the guy that will come up. hopefully, bundy will be here, too. canning will have more experience. i doubt we need many more starting pitchers.
It could all work out for the Angels next year. Possibly. I just think it would be dangerous to have to count on Detmers (or any rookie) along with Canning and Ohtani, given their records.
detmer was drafted because he had the highest bottom of all pitchers drafted. and he would reach the bigs the earliest. we’ll see.
Angels & NL West
Including this year, Ohtani has now thrown a total of 78 innings the last 4 seasons combined. I’m not sure the Angels can count on Ohtani as a major contributor on the mound in 2021.
I think we have to acknowledge Heaney is not the guy we hoped he would be. Solid peripherals, but he just can’t escape the bad inning and can’t get thru 5 innings let alone 6.
As a rookie, the best that can be expected from Detmers is something similar to what we’re getting from Canning and Sandoval right now – 3 to 5 innings on 90+ pitches.
Largely running the same guys out there next year and expecting a different result is not a good plan.
The Human Rain Delay
“I doubt we need any more Sp”
Seriously? Is that you Arte?
Angels and Nl west you are the official spokesperson here for LAA and should be offered a job in the FO, nice post
The Human Rain Delay
Good grief just hold him-
A- The package back wont be great
B- Mike Trout isnt getting younger
C- They need pitching pitching pitching and a little more pitching for 2021
The Angels DO need to call Cle about Clevi or Pleasac with obv Adell or Marsh going the other way….This just makes all too much sense for both clubs right now-
Your not waiting on prospects to develope with Trout and Rendon getting paid 75 mill a year in their primes…Get it together Ana
The Indians asked for Adell, Marsh and Fletcher for Clevenger just a few months ago. Do you really think they won’t be asking for at least the same package now? Fletcher was the deal breaker in that trade and the Dodgers trade.
The Human Rain Delay
Yes the package will be less now and The Angels were smart to reject that-
I never heard Fletch in the Dodgers package…Link?
Bundy isn’t going to bring back a top 100 prospect. While he is doing well, its way to small sample size. And when you look at larger sample his value goes down. Unless someone gets desperate they maybe best to hold onto him and add more pitching in the off season.
With that said someone may get desperate. Short season, expanded playoffs is going to make for an interesting deadline. I expect most moves to be made on the day of the deadline as teams figure out if they are in or out.
If he goes back to a pitcher’s park and/or a tough division he will go back to being mediocre again. I’m happy for his success, he was a good dude in Baltimore, But come on, people. It’s just six starts, three in Anaheim two in Oakland, and one in Seattle, all pitcher’s parks. He’s faced Oakland in half of his starts and while they have a great record, as a team they are hitting .225 and leading the majors in whiffs. I’m just not sold on him magically turning things around this quickly.
Keep pounding that slider Dylan. Hopefully your right arm won’t fall off until you have landed a long term deal from some sucker.
Angels need to first fire there entire medical staff, for the poor care and handling of there players. Pooch some strength and conditioning guys from dodgers if you have to.
Trade bundy ASAP just have a feeling regression is coming. Preferably some close to majors pitching and maybe a boom or bust pitcher
Trade simmons and sign him in offseason.
Trade Adell and Paris/jackson(offers flexibility to trade lindor) for Clevinger and plesac in offseason.
Sign bauer/Stroman see what Mickey can do with 3 fresh starters as opposed to trotting out sandoval, Tehran, suarez. Move sandoval and Suarez to pen.
Ohtani personally I think he would be better as a closer or reliever but that remains to be seen.
At some point hopefully detmers comes up but can start in pen.
Rotation looks significantly better especially with added prospects from mentioned trades. Lineup already looks decent and scores runs so outside of bringing up marsh next year that will look similar.
I’d like to add that arte needs to stop signing big bats and focus more on relievers and pitchers from here on out. Once pujols and upton are gone in 2 years the angels payroll looks significantly better.
Heaney is complete utter garbage. As I mentioned earlier, the Indians wanted Adell, Marsh and Fletcher. That would be an overpay for a starter, who can’t stay healthy
Maybe if we send Bundy that team will agree to take all our pitchers because the entire staff is absolutely horrible
Assuming the price to acquire him isn’t crazy, I wouldn’t mind the White Sox trying to acquire him. He’s someone that could stabilize our rotation as we’d then have Giolito, Keuchel, Bundy, and.Cease.
I wouldn’t mind giving up:
Andrew Dalquist – SP
Blake Rutherford – OF
Gavin Sheets – 1B
+ they could take back Carlos Rodon or Gio Gonzalez if they want. I’d say that’s a pretty fair trade since we’re talking Dylan Bundy, who doesn’t have the longest track record of success.
Jared Kelly is more of viable option if the angels. Bundy is pitching as a frontline starter and has 1 additional year added for cheap. You don’t get something for nothing lol
I think Bundy is the only pitcher Angels should hold on to and build a staff around him. I’m fine dealing Adell away for pitching and even Ohtani for the right return.
Would like to see the mets make a run at him.