Dec. 30: In a conference call to discuss the Darvish/Caratini trade, Cubs president of baseball operations Jed Hoyer called any reports of the team shopping Contreras “fictional” (Twitter link via Gordon Wittenmyer of NBC Sports Chicago). Hoyer, who stressed that the Darvish trade was “not financially motivated,” declined to label any player on his team untouchable and acknowledged that he has received repeated trade inquiries on Contreras, however.
Dec. 29: The Cubs made a couple of significant subtractions from their roster Monday when they agreed to trade right-handed ace Yu Darvish and catcher Victor Caratini to the Padres. Those two may not be the last noteworthy players the Cubs part with in a trade this winter, though, as they’re “extensively shopping” catcher Willson Contreras, Bob Nightengale of USA Today reports.
The 28-year-old Contreras has been one of the preeminent backstops in the game since he debuted in 2016, so you would think the two-time All-Star would bring back a sizable return for the Cubs. Offensively, Contreras owns a lifetime .265/.351/.463 line (good for a 116 wRC+) and has hit 74 home runs in 1,889 plate appearances. As a defender, Contreras struggled with pitch framing earlier in his career, but he ranked in the league’s 85th percentile in that category last season, according to Statcast. He has also thrown out an above-average 32 percent of would-be base thieves in Chicago.
Adding to Contreras’ appeal in a potential trade, he has another two years of arbitration eligibility remaining. He’s projected to earn between $5MM and $7.4MM next season, but even the higher of those estimates should be intriguing to teams looking for a new starting catcher. That’s especially true when considering J.T. Realmuto, the No. 1 free-agent catcher available, figures to rake in a guarantee well north of $100MM on what’s likely to be a contract of at least five years. Speculatively, the Phillies, Angels, Astros, Blue Jays, Yankees, Nationals and archrival Cardinals could be among the teams that at least kick the tires on a Contreras acquisition.
The Cubs don’t seem to have an immediate replacement for Contreras, who teamed with Caratini to form one of the majors’ most effective duos at catcher. Promising prospect Miguel Amaya is the only other backstop on their 40-man roster, though he hasn’t played above High-A ball yet. Of course, Chicago could get back a different catcher in a trade (be it as part of a Contreras swap or another deal) and/or add someone in free agency to help bridge the gap to Amaya.
what a joke of an organization
Totally agree.
Its time, Theo backed this team into a corner w many holes to fill and a now extremely weak farm. This FO couldn’t develop a single useful arm during their whole run- thats the sad joke
Then again…without Theo, would the Cubs still be on their century+ WS drought? I’m not a Cubs or Sox fan, but the Red Sox and Cubs have one thing in common…crazy WS droughts and Theo ending them. Immediately, it seems, fans of both franchises became entitled.
No one would complain if they blew the farm and went all in to win a WS, but since then crying poor while being one of the richest franchises in baseball and a contender, and going the tank route? Cubs fans should be mad.
Indeed they did!
Not all fans of both franchises, just like a large part of NYY, LAD etc.. The local and close in population, born into the everything for free, for me mentality.
Absolutely! They owe Theo all the free beers, he 100% brought a championship to the North side. But he totally fumbled on the 2nd-half of his promise- to build a foundation for sustained success and a continued run of competing for championships.
They’ve been to the playoffs 5 times in 6 years. The players have skin in this game too. They stopped improving since 2016.
Do not FN compare Cubs faithful to Yankee fans
Robert, how could a PoBO build for sustained success when the FO had significant financial constraints put on it?
Maybe because it fits into the narrative for Epstein so far. It seems like the Ricketts should be the target of Cubs’ fans wrath and not the FO.
Look at where their payroll ranked the last 3 years. I’m a cubs fan, I am not mad. I wanted them to do this a year earlier.
Cubs fans still think it’s a game. It’s a business. Always has been, always will be. They got what they sold their souls for. They have no rationale to be mad. This is as much economics as it is baseball. Time to grind it out again.
Been to the playoffs bc of a weak division, and have made increasingly pathetic exits from the postseason. How many playoff games have they won the last 3 years..?
How much money do they need to spend?! It was spent poorly. Just like our prospects were: Jimenez, Torres, Soler- all thrown away for minimal return. YES, we dont win it all without Chapman, but bottom line the Yankees rented him out for 3 months and got 6 years of a stud middle INF in return- because Theo put himself in that situation by refusing to spend on a closer. So then he finally caves, too late, and signs a burnt out Kimbrel. Terrible work by the FO, as most of his big $ FAs have been.
paddy, you dont build for the future by spending on FAs. Thats the opposite. They shouldve been spending big on international FAs- which I remember them doing only once or twice.
So now you’re upset about the Chapman trade? Also, Soler sucked his first 2 years with KC before FINALLY breaking out. Trading him for Wade Davis who was an all star for us in 17 was a good trade. Maybe you’ll be happier rooting for the White Sox?
isn’t that all Americans? Adult babies that want all kinds of things of free, Military, roads, ports, schools, parks, but not willing to pay taxes. Which group of Americans says “I live in the greatest country in the world. Please tax me my share”? None.
Yeah, an incredibly weak division that saw 4 of the 5 teams make the playoffs this past season.
we are
How many times have they won the World Series in the last 5 yrs? Once you make it to the playoffs it’s a different animal. The Marlins won 2 World Series Titles and they were a wildcard team both times.
Robert, awesome take; totally agree!!!!!!
If Tampa Bay still wants to upgrade their catcher position, sending Blake Hunt and pitching prospects to the Cubs, Hoyer should make that move!! Especially if the Cubs are not going to use all that money ($70 million until the luxury tax) available in the budget. Tear the bandage off and trade assets!! I’d say keep Baez, Rizzo, Happ, Heyward (untradable anyways) for 2021. Maybe trade Hendricks and Bryant? The haul for Hendricks would be considerable; imagine Simeon Woods-Richardson or Reid Detmers in their system. That would make the team cheaper and still competitive for 2022.
That’s the thing though. They don’t have that many holes. 2 starters. Before the yu deal a closer and a LF and a few relief arms. Thats it.
Yeah I agree. They had one of the better 1-2 SP combos in the NL. The lineup was pretty solid, just short a corner OF, of the kind that are easily available. Invest a little in a mid-rotation SP and a couple relievers, maybe grab a corner guy cheap, and they were comfortably the best team in that division. They could have traded Contreras for a pitcher and kept Yu. Very weird. They clearly lost money last year, but so did everyone. I guess some owners reacted differently to that situation than others.
If you watch the team, I dont know if you do or not, they just play flat. No fire or hunger. The offense has ZERO “clutch” hitting. The bullpen is a joke. The rotation was at least 2 starters short to begin the winter. No closer. No leadoff hitter. No 2B man. No LH RP. No true CF. And bad contracts abound, meaning they cant go out and sign ANY of them.
Contreras gets them 4 players. No way you sell that low and only get one pitcher back.
That’s…a lot of holes. And it’s not, “a closer”, it’s more like an entire bullpen that they need.
Considering a Theo run FO’s philosophy is to draft high quality bats and over pay for pitching in free agency, this is not surprising at all.
thats the formula that wins championships if you really look at every World Series champ in recent years…buy the starting pitching rather than drive everyone crazy trying to develop a ‘starting 5’ smh….easier to draft and develop offense
it’s only easy to draft off. if you pick in the top half of the draft but if you constantly win and pick in the btm half you draft pitching and trade it for off. it’s easier to project how a pitcher is going to develop than the next trout.
Arthur, the dodgers starting rotation in the World Series was 100% homegrown. 2020
Uhhhh… who did the Dodgers buy in their rotation?
It’s easier to project a pitcher than Trout…well what about a pitcher vs an offensive player, since it makes no sense to compare it to trout. Pitchers are extremely volatile and get hurt at a higher rate, so I don’t think that’s true.
i was just trying to make the point it’s easier to see how a pitcher will be playing a few years after drafting. batters in hs and collage use bats that add anywhere from 30~50% more power then hit the pro ranks and now there using wood bats that don’t give that bonus. so finding the next “trout” like player is just a crapshoot. i only used trout for my example because every team in the mlb is looking for that guy.
That’s Theo. Did the same thing in Boston. Hit and run, leaving rebuilds behind him and massive contracts and debt.
As mentioned earlier, considering the World Series drought that BOTH the Red Sox & Cubs were in,NEITHER franchise’s fan base should be complaining.
Yeah, and the majority of that FO’s scouts and lower level guys are still there. They shouldve cleaned house when theo left
Lets get a couple things straight:
1.) Epstein left the Cubs in a GREAT position. Yes, we have a lot of “core” guys hitting free agency all at once but the Cubs were 60 million under the luxury tax coming into this off season, 67 now that Schwarber was non-tendered.
2.) The Cubs may have had several holes to fill but they were not huge holes. They HAD two Aces in Darvish and Hendricks, they have two arms coming up that were solid back of the rotation starters with potential in Azolay and Mills. For not developing a single useful arm… Mills as a starter has a 4.06 ERA, almost any team in baseball would slot that into the fifth starters slot.
3.) The farm system is not weak. It’s not remotely weak and they had a tremendous 2020 draft. Marquez, Davis, Amaya and Howard all are around the top 100… the only reason Howard isn’t a top 100 is because of his age. Nico Hoerner was another highly regarded prospect until the Cubs brought him up (prematurely) so that is 5 guys. Then they have a bunch of tier two prospects (prior to the Darvish trade) Strompf is a top 10 sec0nd base prospect, Roederer is a very good outfield prospect, Quintero and Hearn are both extremely well regarded catching prospects and they have a ton of high velocity arms making their way through development. Nwogu is going to be the steal of the 2020 draft.
So, in other words, Epstein did not leave the Cubs in a bad position. Covid and Tom Ricketts put the Cubs in a bad position. nearly 70 million to potentially spend on free agents when you didn’t have that many holes is not being in a bad position. The Cubs have many potential impact prospects near ML ready (Davis, Marquez, Amaya) and several potential ML regular prospects in the farm. Epstein left this organization is pretty good shape, a division winning team with flaws but SHOULD have had more than enough money to fill those gaps.
Now just for giggles, lets look at what 67 million could potentially buy in free agency and if the Cubs would be in bad shape:
Tanaka 13 million AAV
Brantley 14 million AAV
Paxton 10 million AAV
Wong 8 million AAV
Hand 7 million AAV
Jeffers 4 million AAV
11 million to spare for mid season trades.
Then we would be talking about one more World Series run before KB, Rizzo and Baez hit free agency.
I’ll add a 4th….
4) 2020 Cubs lineup, for the most part, had off years. With the exception of Happ and Heyward the lineup was underwhelming. A bat to replace Schwarber would have helped immensely. Average years from Baez, Rizzo and Bryant would be an improvement from 2020 and a step in the right direction.
Exactly, I thought 2020 would have been a blessing in disguise since none of our arbitration eligible players would have received huge pay raises. If Bryant, Baez, Contreras all had their typical All-Star level production we’d be looking at huge pay raises for each.
I understand the thought process and need to save money from TR’s prospective but I wish they would still get involved in free agency and back load the contracts a little so they can get the revenue stream back on track.
I think if they continue this course they are missing a golden opportunity to land some free agent talent at a discount I’m not optimistic about it, but I kind of hope they are playing chess, removing not only payroll but potential free agent suitors and try to swoop in and sign guys at would traditionally be a below market value.
MLB.com added our new prospects:
10- Preciado
11- Caissie
16-Mena
17-Santana
It will be interesting to see where Christian Hernandez lands in the Cubs system if he is indeed inked by the Cubs.
That’s not much different than where they ranked in the Padres system. I guess the silver lining in this is that even before the disappointing Darvish trade the Cubs minor league system was in good shape. I would think Hernandez would rank around 10 or 11 at worst since he’s a top 10 international prospect this year, but I’m not an expert on that.
Haha keep drinking the Cubbie Kool Aid while Tom Ricketts charges you $125 to sit in the bleachers because, well you know, it’s “iconic”.
Where are the blowhard SD fans who were saying their system is so great their top 20 guys are top 10 in most other systems. Fact is after their top 4 they drop off fast especially now.
@drasco036- Lots to ingest there, I’ll try to simplify it a bit- Heyward & Kimbrel over 220 mil wasted or gross overpays. Traded away Gleyber Torres, Dylan Cease and even Soler. Schwarber & Almora cut loose for nothing when they could’ve/should’ve been traded years ago. KB clearly on decline, etc, etc, etc.
Hahaha, I’m so cash poor I can’t afford to go to games or subscribe to cable TV or buy MLB gear and memorabilia. My fandom only costs me time, which I can spend less of as I see fit. But good work as usual on your stereotypical Sox fan/Cub hater boilerplate comments, chitown.
Or much like you’re doing now, ignore the fact that this team is in a financial mess due to the attempted monopoly of Wrigleyville by The Ricketts. The sad part is they are diminishing the product on the field yet continue to price gouge John Q. Fan like yourself. What do you do? Turn around and retweet that the Darvish trade was “a good deal” and our farm system “is really good”. Enjoy the product that’s going to be in front of you for the next 10 years. How long until The Ricketts try to PSL Wrigley? I give it 2 years
Oh, some analysis, for once. Excuse me while I dust myself off after fainting.
Every MLB team’s intent is to price gouge..
And find my comment where I said the Darvish trade is a good deal.
And if they start sucking, like I said, I have no problem spending less time on them. They’re already not getting any money directly from me.
Exactly.
Spoken like a fan of a team that had almost as many empty seats before covid as they did in 2020
Drascoo36, good points!! Also consider it’s a weak division. The only problem: high-priced star players have not hit enough or been inconsistent (Bryant, Schwarber, Baez, etc). I LOVE Baez and hope they keep him.
I definitely think they should use that $70 million in cash below the luxury tax threshold, signing Quintana, Kluber, Hand, Archie Bradley, La Stella (or Tanaka, Wong, etc), but I would also advocate considering trading Hendricks and Contreras. Darvish just wasn’t as marketable as Hendricks and Contreras (age, $$, career volatility), so he is not a good example to gauge value. Imagine Simeon Woods-Richardson (Hendricks) and Reid Detmers (Contreras) in the rotation in 2022 with Marquez, Franklin, and Azolay. That’s also WAY cheap!!! Think of what they could spend on bullpen and offense after 2021!!! They could make a trade for Arenado with a starting staff at that salary level or resign Bryant if he has a bounce-back year.
I say restock the farm, keeping a core centered around Baez, Bryant, and Rizzo and bring in young pitchers through trades.
There’s a formula here for competing in 2021 and building up the impact talent in the Farm System. This is also a perfect year for 1-year or 2-year contracts at dirt cheap, as fee agents will get desperate come January and February.
If it weren’t for Theo, Cubs fans would still be sending death threats to Steve Bartman
They need to continue to blow it up. This team as is, isnt going anywhere. Getting sept by the Marlins made sure of that.
And I actually think Cubs did well by getting the Padres to pick up most if not all of Yu’s contract while still picking up a solid SP(Davies) and 4 lottery tickets (all ranked in the top 20 in the Pads farm)
Contreras and Bryant should bring them back solid value.
Bryant’s value is the lowest it will ever be.
Which is still worth more than most players in a trade. They should have pulled the trigger last year, totally agree, but still can get some value for him. That or in July when a team is desperate for offense- assuming he’s come back around
With his salary, 1 year left and poor 2020 he would get 1 prospect in the 11-12 range from a good farm and maybe 1 other late teens low 20s.
Contreras get minimum 4 players back.
So you’d be happy with 4 scrubs? I didn’t realize that this is a quantity over quality equation.
Wrek who cares how many players Contreras brings back UNLESS they are quality.
Not Bryant
Mjm117, trade Hendricks and Contreras. They have the most value on the team right now (Bryant and Baez had down years), plus Bryant and Baez are bigger names who’ve reached star status in the past (MVP and 2nd in voting for Baez (2018). They’re also the most marketable within the fan base.
Why? Darvish was seen as a huge bust the Cubs were stuck with long term. It was smart to sell high while they could.
They didn’t sell high though. They could have gotten a better return. Plus they’re the Cubs; one of the richest franchises in baseball. A rebuild is one thing, this is disgusting.
Who was offering more?! Not many teams looking to add salary this year. Mets are not looking to trade. They are looking at free agency. Boston and Yankees aren’t spending. Toronto evidently wasn’t interested in picking up that contract. So where was this better return coming from?!
Who offered more?
Possibly the Angels
I mean we will never know. It’s not like it’s late into the offseason. There was plenty of time to shop for more. I didn’t expect Darvish to get a huge return, but it seemed really weak to me.
For everyone who thinks it’s disgusting the cubs are rebuilding, how the hell do you think they won in 2016? Oh yeah they tanked.
It’s not disgusting that they’re rebuilding. It’s not disgusting that they traded Darvish. It’s disgusting that they are making moves to dump salary, not to retool or rebuild.
Please cite the better offers they turned down or coulda shoulda had?
with that training staff out there unless i was a pitcher getting ready for retirement i wouldn’t go to laa. if i were the angels i would be questioning and/or replacing my training staff there pitchers seem to drop like files
Fangraphs rated Placiado as a better talent than Howard and Santana as a #9 or #10 prospect in the Cubs’ farm system though that’s not the industry consensus). It’s a risky trade, because we won’t know for two to three years whether Hoyer was a genius or idiot. Personally, I wanted Weathers or Morejon in the deal as a rotation are for 2021 or 2022.
You don’t take back a different, lesser starting pitcher in his walk year as a primary part of your return if you were “selling high.”
He wasn’t the best asset they got. Just the only major league one.
Agree, quite disappointed that they’re not “retooling” and going for players like Cronenworth. Getting 18yr olds and veteran starter on his last contract year- not good. They’re going all in, but a part of me thinks its the right move. Whole ass it.
Lmfao. So you’re upset based on 1/5 of the package darvish got, even though that single player likely is going to be traded himself, therefore increasing the return for Darvish?
See how dumb that sounds
Darvish was one think. Contreras is another.
It’s just one think after another. All of the thinks.
Just because they traded Darvish does not mean they sold high on him. That is the problem. They should have sold high but instead they simply did a salary dump.
The owners of the Chicago Cubs are a disgrace to MLB as an organization. They, along with other owners of teams who refuse to spend to win, such as the Pirates and Athletics, must be forced to sell their teams unless they spend like the Dodgers. Every last one of them can afford to do that, but they view owning a team as a thing they -have- to profit on, when there’s plenty of other rich people out there who would perfectly happy throwing money at a team until they got a ring.
Exactly. The problem is the A’s are actually a low budget team. The Cubs are not. The cubs should be in the mix for all top free agents every winter. Joe Ricketts and Co. are cheap. They’ve shown this the last 2 winters and now this one.
The Dodgers are owned by a hedge fund, not an individual or a family. How much the Dodgers spend is not related to how well the hedge fund directors do. THAT’S the irregularity that frankly should be banned from the game.
Hahahahahah now you’re mad at who owns the other teams, not how YOUR owner actually runs HIS business
Wow. Talk about projection
the Cubs actually spent quite a lot in recent years, but the lack of commitment here is the problem. they have no need to rebuild. maybe retool, but rebuild is something else. as far as im concerned the core is Baez and Contreras first and foremost.
Baez, Contreras, Rizzo, and Hendricks.
I don’t really get what’s going on. I agree with you that all they really needed to do was re-tool a bit. Maybe sign Nishikawa to play 2B and provide a possible true leadoff type. Move Bryant to LF, play Hoerner at 3B. This alone changes the dynamic of the offense and improves the defense. Re-sign Jeffress for the pen. Find an affordable #3-4 for the rotation. With that, the Cubs should easily compete for next year.
They spent yes. But they haven’t spent in four years. Which means holes developed and they didn’t fix them, they just expected the players they had to change
All of this lines up with the Wrigley field disaster. Cub fans should be most mad about that
How do you plan for them to retool? They have a bad farm system and you are crying about them trying to trade players with value. Do you think they just magically make younger talent appear?
The cubs had one of the highest payrolls for the last 3 years…miss me with your misinformed bs.
Phillies have 11,000 franchise losses. Only 2 world series championships. Pot calling the kettle black. Cubs may still make the playoffs next year, while your team will be an underachieving cellar dweller. Maybe you should be more concerned that you’re losing Realmuto.
you do realize ive defended the Cubs more then the Phillies recently? i defended their spending habits, i picked them frequently as favorites for the Central, I gave Theo what I believe to be his due. but this is absurd. trading Darvish simply to save money? trading a franchise catcher? no shame in rebuilding, but this is hardly the time. retool? sure. rebuild? heck no.
Yeah darkside even capitalizes the Cubs name, and he never capitalizes anything out of laziness.
Wow, 11,000 franchise losses? How many franchise losses do the Cubs have vs how many WS championships?
Jed Hoyer the Dynasty Destroyer!
i think theo did that he went all in 1 to many times and wrecked there farm system. me personally i like and hate jed’s moves on the cubs front great moves. rebuild the farm maybe getting some pitching in the system and retool in a really weak division. i hate these moves because now the cards won’t do anything atm cards are a fav for the div and i’ll be honest we’re barely a wc team.
I’m a Cubs fan and yet I agree. A joke, except not the kind that makes me laugh. I’m pissed. It’s not moving Yu that gets me so much- they’re selling high which could have been ok. It’s that the return sucks.
Excellent return on yu. I was impressed.
Excellent return? A one year meh rental and a handful of guys who may never even sniff the Majors. Wow
How is it an excellent return?
You are not my dream GM. Please steer clear of Chicago.
If 3 of those 4 guys become top 100 guys by next year, are you still mad? Even 2/4?
Being upset about a trade return because you do not know the players is weak. They got A LOT of talent back. It’s just 17-20, so they have to develop it
The Rays and Cubs are both jokes. Neither are trying to win.
Yet the Rays made it to the World Series, and could’ve made game 7 if it weren’t for Cash pulling Snell
Yea, an inexperienced friend as a coach doesn’t help either. The CUBS need to rebuild from the TOP down to a REAL manager. Trade all big contracts and get REAL prospects – focusing on pitching, first.
What a joke — believing a rumor from Bob Nightingale!
I know right? 4 post season appearances, 3 NLDS and a championship in the past 6 years.
Yup, you’re right. Playoff appearance 5 of the last 6 years with 2 NLCS’s and a WS. They changed coaches multiple times, spent a fortune on technology and mental skills people. The result? Swept out in 2 games in their own ballpark by Alcantara and Sanchez without a fight.
Now is the time to rebuild. Tons of uncertainty loom with covid in 2021 and CBA in 2022. So if you were in charge would you keep a 34 year old injury prone $20 mill+ per year pitcher who will be 37 before he pitches another full season? OR…do you know when to fold ’em and start restocking so that when 2023 comes you’ve developed young players in the mold you want who are ready or near ready to play? Hate the Ricketts all you want, but they invested a billion into saving Wrigley Field and the surrounding neighborhood, invested a fortune in technology, execs and coaches and in international facilities. and got the Cubs a championship. They’re the best thing that has happened to the franchise in my 60 years of fandom.
If they were smart they would’ve hired Captain DUI, 80 yr old LaRussa. That’s what smart organizations due. Hire an old geezer, who hasn’t managed in many yrs, and coming off his 2nd drunk driving in recent years. Genius move by the White Sox.
bush1 Can you tell me who the Cubs hired as a color commentator for their Marquee Network? I mean you wouldn’t want an organization to hire someone coming off their 2nd DUI and convicted felon like Mark Grace? Because that’s not what smart organizations do like you stated above? Right? RIGHT??? Such a typical Cubbie fan beat off
They non tendered Schwarber and traded their ace pitcher. Might as well blow it up. Trade anything and everything of value for maximum return.
and for what its worth, i had just checked back in on Amaya’s stats…he cant hit. i dont know why i was so easily convinced before that he was a good prospect.
He’s in A ball
Bc as of 2 -3 yrs ago he was the Cubs #1 prospect.
Agreed, I have yet to understand the hype behind him. But I havent paid much attention, hopefully he pans out.
@darkside. Thanks for ‘checking’ dark side. I’m sure everyone here, just can’t wait for your unbiased evaluations. After all, your so well known for your skill in that area.
@Dogbone
Your post is the ideal example of the pot calling the kettle black.
Compared to you, Darkside is the greatest MLB expert that ever lived.
Actually, a .750 OPS is pretty good for a strong defensive catcher who is at least two years younger than the average player in the Midwest League and the Carolina League.
its the contact that would concern me. not bad OPS, but a .243 AVG doesnt look too hot. he’s young enough, especially as a catcher, to improve that, but i have a hard time pegging a guy with consistently mediocre at best contact skills as a top 100 prospect.
He doesn’t strike out much, < 20 K%. A .350 OBP and .400 SLG is gravy for a catcher.
Did you just post your sons career stat line?
Nah, it’s not really close to that, but you know, if Contreras didn’t develop into the player that he is, Kyle might have been catching a couple games a week over the years.
@DarkSide830 Thanks for sharing that you have no idea what you’re talking about.. Oh, but I’m sure you know better than everyone else who has him highly ranked. Maybe you should worry about your Phillies and their awful bullpen that will keep them out of the playoffs. Again. Lol.
and if you payed any attention i made several comments about their pen on the Alvarado article. and as far as im concerned i dont need to simply comment on my team’s issues.
Frankly you don’t need to comment at all.
To be frank I wouldn’t trust someone who can’t spell paid correctly with baseball stats
jeez, I made a spelling mistake. sue me.
Nah, you’re wrong, minor league OPS’s from catchers mean almost nothing. He is a great prospect and will be a fine everyday C soon.
Why let research stop you now? Just keep declaring things that you don’t know.
feel free to prove me wrong. ive already said its his low average that puts me off.
How do I block this dark side clown?
It’s all based on his swing mechanics, patience at the plate, and the hints of power potential he flashes now and then. If he can put it together, he has the tools to be a top-level C. As is, he’s shown the defensive and receiving skills to be a regular starter at the MLB level… if his bat produces anything at all.
Thing is, at the age of 20, he was putting up better numbers in A ball than many regular MLB starters right now did when they played that level at age 22-24.
He just tore it up in Puerto Rico
Not everyone can be as smart as the White Sox and their hiring of an old crusty drunken driving idiot, LaRussa. Very smart move by the White Sox. SMH.
Time to blow it up in Chicago. Bryant rizzo Baez on the block shortly
Riz is the face of the franchise, I can’t see him going. But the others for sure.
Does he want to stay around and play with Matt Duffy, Max Schrock and PJ Higgins though?
Rizzo back to Boston actually might work, Rizzo for Dalbec straight up, who says no?
Boston laughs and hangs up
Boston.
Old man for first baseman for the future? Lmao no way Boston takes that
Your point is valid but Dalbec is by no stretch “the future”. Casas is.
Rizzo has no value.
Yeah you’re probably right, we’ll see
any one of Dalbec, Devers, or Casas can be the DH while the other two play 1B and 3B.
Wrong. He’s not gonna land futures game team himself, but he’s worth a couple arms or a top 100 position prospect or two.
Baez and Rizzo need to get extended and there’s no excuse not to do this. Should’ve happened 3 years ago.
How about they want more money than they are worth? Still extended them anyways? Pay whatever they demand?
They have zero plan, zero. Trade Contreras and then you only need 2 outfielders, 2 catchers and 2 sp to field a damn team in an extremely winnable division.
This is true. Very true.
Their plan is tear it down, recoup a bunch of money to pay down the debt the owners took on, and be good in maybe 5 years.
There’s at least 50 billionaires out there right now who would love to burn millions to help make the Cubs win games in 2021.
MLB must step in now and force the owners to put up money, or get out and sell the team. It’s one thing to have Oakland or Pittsburgh do cr@p like this, but one of the most popular and iconic franchises in the game? No way.
I wish a strike would work but there’s no fans already, ha
forcing owners to spend money isn’t the answer you need players that fit your mold and i think that’s the cubs biggest problem they have no real direction or identity. i know everyone here (even me and there my team) is tired of hearing the cardinal way but there is some truth to it. how is it we pick in the lower half of the draft every year and have a mid grade farm system but yet we have a lot of our kids playing on our roster. personally i feel the cubs need to develop a philosophy of something like we’re a pitching 1st team or something else. to be perfectly honest the lad are the best ran org in baseball great farm team and they spend there money and prospects wisely.
Mark Cuban would be great for MLb and the Cubs
“make the owners spend!”…yeah, that’s not how it works. You sound like a child. Especially considering where the cubs were at the last 3 years. It’s not like they are unwilling to spend money when it makes sense to.
The Cards way has worked because they get those ridiculous competitive balance draft picks every year because they are considered to be a ‘small market’ team. Yet another thing that is broken in baseball.
debt? lol.
@imi12. I see no semblance of any plan either. There is plenty to be had this off-season. They have a lot of holes.
Firesale!
Dumpster dumping Jed!
I really love this
Maybe they’ll be able to get a half eaten sandwich and a bag of balls for him.
If I’m a team trying to win I’d just prey on the entire NL central. Everybody would rather cry poor instead of try to win.
Sad that no one in the NL Central wants to win this thing. Sadder still that one of them will!
i agree with both you and jd in the nlc only teams that can cry poor is mil, cin, and pit. cubs and cards can’t cry poor they both have tv deals that pay there players salaries. so there is no reason that either stl has or chc can’t field a team that can fight for a ws. until the cubs traded away there ace they were 2 mid rotation arm and a few rp and a contract hitter away from being a serious contender. the cards are a mid of the order bat behind goldy and a lead off guy to be serious contenders. thou the way i see it now both teams are barely wc teams much less ws contending team.
You keep peddling the only 2 starters and “a few” relief pitchers mantra. The Cubs pitching sucks.
Yeah things are not looking food for them. Imagine being a position where you can’t afford Contreras as $7mill.
good*
Why couldn’t they afford that? Owner go bankrupt or something?
Can’t afford? That’s asinine.
Do you honestly think it’s the $6-9M Contreras is likely to receive through arbitration and not the very lofty trade value a healthy, controllable, young catcher who rates among the elite at his position both at and behind the plate? Contreras’s affordable salary is one of the aspects that makes him likely to land a couple of high-end prospects in return.
The question is, can Hoyer actually stick to his guns and get something of high value… or will he allow himself to get hosed against like he did yesterday?
i dont think he’d got hosed on yu he got the most out of a 34 going onto 35 yo sp with an injury history. i don’t see very many teams giving a kings ransom for him he’s good but is yu a #1 on a true contender. if you think cubs are true contenders your drinking the same kool-aid that mo is drinking. there are no true contenders to in the nlc.
Tigers should trade for him. They could definitely use a building block catcher like him. Beau Burrows or Franklin Perez plus another young prospect in the back of our top 30 for Contreras seems like a decent trade
Contreras and Bryant and I doubt it would cost much. Tigers could QO Bryant and get another 1st round pick in 2022.
Might as well make it Jake Rogers then.
I’ve been wishing for the Tigers to come in and grab Realmuto, but I’d be totally fine with Contreras. If he works for the next year or so then lock him up.
Burrows has struggled in recent years and Perez is never healthy. they are hardly headliners for a top handfull (arguably 2nd best in the game) catcher.
Burrows has pitched only a handful of innings in the majors and that was all just last year. Perez has been healthy for a while and is still quite young. I think they seem to both have some upside.
Ya love to see Jed fail if you’re a pads fan! Rizzo should be winning the WS with us
Like a Mets fan, wait until you actually win something. On paper means nothing.
CC Mike Rizzo…get it done!
Nats have no prospects worthy enough for Contreras. They’ll need give up at least 2 top 2 prospects plus
Wrong. Cavalli or Rutledge would easily get it done but Rizzo will part with neither.
As he shouldn’t. Ridiculous asking price for a catcher with 2 years of control left. Cubs fans think all these guys are going to get them top 5 prospects are sorely mistaken.
I always enjoy reading the comments of the MLBTR GM’s.
I do too buddy
Right?!?! Imagine if MLBTR commenters took over every team in baseball? We would be so good, every team would win all 162 games! Every batter would hit a home run every at bat and pitchers would strike out every hotter they faced every time.
and every team would have a payroll of 1 trillion dollars
Considering the Cubs never get top prospects or controllable top tier assets in trades, they’re going to be bad for a VERY long time.
Good thing Cubs fans have the Marquee network. They get to watch this $#it show from the front row.
The last time they were in that position they brought in controllable pieces like Hendricks and Rizzo… they weren’t going to be trading for top prospects while they were trying to win. Good try.
You are we todd it.
Your favorite jersey number is 21 isn’t it Chisox.
Honestly, you never offer anything of substance or intelligence. You’re not even a reasonably decent troll because nothing you say is remotely true or feasible.
or funny…
They won’t be. Just because you want it to be so, doesn’t mean it will be so.
Theo obviously saw this coming and wanted no part of it.
I’m guessing the Ricketts really did get hit hard by the pandemic with the money they borrowed/invested in the TV deal and the commercial real estate development around Wrigley. Their timing was bad. Not necessarily saying it justifies the firesale, just trying to understand why they would take this approach.
Or the $100 million they dumped on the election….
lol!
Theo probably just wanted a year off, figured a probable short season and possibly another in 2022 would be the perfect time. He will always be remembered as the one who broke the curse. Probably didn’t want to be the one who got rid of the 4 cornerstones of those good teams.
As a mlbtraderumor gm I would go into a rebuild as well. Probably not going to be full season of full fans. And I have no interest in extending the big 4. Unless it’s for a lot less than I think they want. Not a fan of hundred million contracts unless I am locking up Soto or someone young. Trade what I can and fill the holes and try to compete. Team can still win central if they keep rizzo baez and just fill holes. Davies isn’t much of a drop off as far as win loss.
Yeah, is Baez pitching? Cause you ain’t got none …
what’s the point of just winning a weak a$$ division no one cares that you won your division in 20xx. just ask the braves in 19. they won the div but the nats won the ws. yes give the narrative anything can happen in the ps but if your team is barely a .500 team how are you betting a legit team.
It doesn’t make a lot of sense for Theo to be around for the tear down if he’s not gonna be there for the rebuild. Let the guys that are gonna do the rebuild trade off who they want. It makes a lot more sense that way.
If anything it was the temporary stock market crash. That’s where Joe got most if not all his money from.
It’s a joke, I feel awful for Cubs fans. The players should strike until there is c on sequence for an employer tanking payroll. It’s the owner equivalent of players holding out.
I think we will be seeing a strike in 2022, possibly in late-2021 to stick it to the owners as the postseason nears, especially if the owners drag their feet on the start of the 2021 season.
this isnt a big enough problem for players to strike. unless several top guys go without deals then the best explanation would be the natural losses from the pandemic.
Hey Dogbone, weren’t you saying something about Jerry Reinsdorf being cheap? HAHAHA! LMAOO!
Let me know when the sox run a $180m payroll, until then, just shut up. You’re an embarrassment to sox fans.
Angels… for 2 of anyone with a heartbeat.
I haven’t chipped in my two cents worth in a while. I let the Darvish and Caratini trade slide by. But if this story is true. The entire Cub leadership team is an unmitigated disaster! You really have to wonder what is going there. Maybe the Ricketts family is setting the entire oranization up for a sale.
Just a needed rebuild.
They need new ownership.
they needed a retool, not a full-scale rebuild.
I agree, a club such as the Cubs with their revenue stream should never have to rebuild. You would NEVER hear the Yankees or the Dodgers talk about a rebuild. Now we have two of the most valued teams in the game with the Red Sox and Cubs going through a rebuild because greed got in the way of sound decisions. When you make poor decisions of the magnitude the Cubs and Red Sox did, no amount of money can buy your way out of that hole in a couple of years.
They no you’ll still show up to the games, so it’s time to cash in. Cubs fans never hold the team accountable and get screwed in the process.
You can’t spell “know”…..
ChiSoxCity & his numerous other screen names continue to amaze me with his predictable trolling and lack of grammar skills. “Your” an idiot. See what I did there? Probably “knot!”
It’s called talk to text jocktop. Send your complaints to Apple, then get a life.
yeah, it’s SUCH a hassle to check before hitting post, how could you ever expect anyone to do that…gawd!!!!! Get a life.
You misspelled god.
I feel much better about myself now.
A little different than the South Side ballpark that cannot draw 25,000 fans with a good team…
Oh, now we are celebrating attendance pennants and having attendance parades? Lame and dumb.
You wouldn’t sell off your valuable assets for pennies on the dollar if you were setting up for a sale. Kind of the opposite.
Sell them all. Sell them all. He has the most value out of the 4. Only reason to pay bryant is if you plan on him rebounding. Can’t imagine he has much value.
Acquiring Contreras could help the Angels attract some of the better starters on the market- Bauer being the big one. They would need to pony up Marsh + most likely.
Nah not for two years of Contreras. It’s not Realmuto
Marsh isn’t Adell though. Adell would probably be in a trade package for Realmuto, assuming the other GM liked Adell.
LMAO!
I really hope the Angels are smarter than that. He can hit, but pitchers do not like throwing to him.
The Angels need to hang on to Marsh, or at least hold out for a better player.
Pitchers don’t like throwing to him? Pulled that out your backside.
Nope. Heard it last year. I really can’t remember if it was Sleeper and the Bust on Fangraphs or Bat Flip Crazy.
He sure doesn’t get a lot of ABs for a catcher… I wonder why that is?
Do you have your head up your backside?
He doesn’t get as many at bats because Madden like to play him 4 or 5 games per week with Caratini (or Ross) playing the other 2 or 3. I didnt pay attention to how Ross handled that in his first season managing.
There is a big difference between four and five games, but you would expect a catcher who can hit like that to get more ABs.
I believe what I heard. It doesn’t mean it’s gospel, but there is some evidence to back it up.
He’s a catcher they don’t play 155 games. He gets plenty of ABs and in the middle of the order to boot. You can’t remember because you pulled it out of thin air.
“I really hope the Angels are smarter than that. He can hit, but pitchers do not like throwing to him.”
And yet, Hendricks, Mills, and Lester all specifically asked for Contreras to catch their games this past season. Hendricks and Lester’s requests stemming from 2017.
2019, Hamels threatened to request a trade if Maddon continued to pair him with Caratini and not Contreras after his second start.
Whomever you “heard it from last year” shouldn’t be considered a valid source any longer. Or maybe you should just stop making stuff up.
“Doesn’t get a lot of ABs for a catcher.”
According to ESPN and BBR’s Stathead sites
2020 – 8th most ABs among all MLB catchers
2019 – 11th most ABs among all MLB catchers.. despite a month on the DL
2018 – Lead MLB in ABs among catchers
2017 – 14th most ABs among all MLB catchers… despite a month on the DL
2017-2020 6th most ABs among all MLB catchers
Man, it’s almost like it’s easy to look these things up. You should give it a try sometime.
in 2019 Hamels threatened a trade over pitching to caratini instead of contreras? I’m going to take “things that didnt happen” for 500 please
Great, the so called expert was wrong and you are right, even though he jumps around home plate like a bunny rabbit in heat, pitchers love to throw to him.
The fact is, Marsh is a prospect and you HOPE he might turn out as good as Contreras. Every fan of every team overvalues their prospects. They haven’t proven a thing.
I’m not sure I overvalue Marsh, I just properly value what other people want to acquire for Marsh.
If fans had their way, Marsh would have been traded for Kluber last year.
You trade a marsh for that final piece like a marlins jtr or tigers Verlander. Not contreras and not where the angels are now.
Angels don’t have pitching, therefore this would be a perfect fit.
Mr Guest, if that was suppose to be funny, it wasn’t bad.
The Angels need to add four pitchers. Two more RPs and two more Starters.
I had thought they could trade Contreras and make Caratini the starter. Since he’s gone, if they trade Contreras it better be for a decent starting pitcher and 2 mlb ready position players. They’ll have to find a catcher somewhere. At the moment it’s looking like a rough year.
My guess is following the Contreras trade Cubs will probably sign 2 or 3 of the seeming dozens of all glove, no stick FA catchers on the market for $1-2M, all one-year or minors deals, of course
Big thank you to Jed Hoyer and the Ricketts family for handing us the 2021 NL Central crown basically unopposed
Signed Cardinals Nation
I’m a cards fan and honestly it’s going to be a rough year as a cardinal fan too. We’ve signed almost no one. Another year of carp and Fowler playing regularly and being terrible doesnt give us the division. The cubs still have talent and the cards losing wong and doing nothing else hasnt made them better. If they bench fowler, sign pederson that would be a positive step. Would rather see gorman than carp at third. If they punt the season I’d like to see waino, molina and let’s trade carp or fowler for Pujols and do one last dance with that trio before they retire and cards move on. At least then the team would be mediocre but we would have something to cheer for lol
The cardinals can pitch laps around 2/3 of the league if not more… the cards should be favorites for division. They have a ton of good young talent. If they magically signed realmuto, how much more would their stock go up? I think the brewers need to hit the gates hard. They could retool way better than the cubs. They trade hader and nail a SP signing or bounce back. The cubs are finished this year.
I wouldn’t mind him in Dodger blue.
The Dodgers already have an embarrassment of riches in Will Smith. He is better than Contreras in my opinion. Barnes isn’t bad himself.
Don’t need him, makes more sense for angels. Will smith and Barnes are both better than Contreras
Will Smith and Barnes are better than Contreras? Jesus man… That is some homer ridiculousness right there.
Did I stutter? Show me in what ways Contreras is better than barnes let alone smith? Barnes is a better pitch framer, better defensively and is a slightly less good hitter. Will smith is better in all areas
Agreed
Contreras is one of the best hitting catchers. Top 15% in framing (Ross effect) and a 32% throw out rate. Add to it he has 2 years of control.
His numbers would have been more but Ross had Caratini catch Darvish and Mills while Contreras caught the rest. They picked up some PA’S on off days as the DH.
Which is not dumb having a shared catcher and DH on off days. Allows the catcher to focus up with his starter better. Darvish thrived with Caratini and they went together because Preller is not stupid to break up that marriage.
Will Smith is better. Barnes isn’t.
He’s one of the best hitting catchers. His defensive skills are among the very few elite.
Will Smith isn’t that good. He’s nowhere near what Contreras. Maybe in 5 years but I doubt it. By then Will Smith will end up more of a journeyman than Jason Kendall
You guys have a million catchers already. I’m sure the Cubbies would love to take Kiebert Ruiz off your hands. Probably would do that one 1 for 1.
last thing LA needs is another C with Smith, Keibert, and Cartaya in the system.
Blue Jays should be all over this. They have the pieces to get him. Fits nicely with the up and coming catchers when Contreras’ contract is finished.
Jays should go after Bryant and Contreras!
So the Cubs owner must be financially strapped? That’s the only reason this makes sense, Right? It’s not like baseball owners have a monopoly or anything.
I can’t see them winning the world series. If they want to spend 200 million with little or no fan revenue coming in, then they can contend for the central. Rebuild makes sense to me.
Might only take a .500 record to win the NL Central in ’21.
With the new Playoff structure, the central should just tank and get a 70win division winner and 69 game 2nd place team in. Meanwhile still top 3-10 picks for draft.
Jays should be in on this if Jansen is of interest to the Cubs.
Flip Jansen and a prospect for Contreras. Cubs save money, gain control and add a prospect. Jays get better now. Young prospect catchers should be ready in 2 years.
Came here to post this same thing. Especially of the Jays are kicking the tires on Realmuto, this seems like a good use of resources.
Well I guess there’s only one thing left to do.
Win the whole fuREAKIn thing
Love it. Hey they might be looking at a Taylor type as their catcher this year.
And from what I understand, pitchers hate throwing to him. Not a good trait for a catcher.
Nope, I would Rather have Travis d`Arnoud to be real.
Not true at all
But that’s what he “understands”. That’s tough evidence to rebuke.
The evidence is why doesn’t he get a lot of ABs?
I realize Catchers can’t play everyday, but All Star catchers shouldn’t be in the middle of the pack on plate appearances.
There have been several such stories over the past couple years. Whether they’re true or not, dunno.
He spends time on the IL.
So kyle, that’s less of a reason to get him… right?
I really don’t know what is true or not. I play fantasy baseball and I put a warning flag on him because one of the pod cast I listen to said pitchers don’t like throwing to him.
So.. I heard that pitchers don’t like to throw to him. True or not, but based on that, I hope the Angels do not attempt to acquire him.
544 PA in 2018
400+ in 2019 with hamstring injury
Played 57 games out 60 in 2020
Click on his stats before you make absurd comments
He improved his framing last year. I think having Ross there helped him in that regard. Whether he would regress on another team is the question.
He did spend about a month on the IL in 2017 and 2019. In 2018, he wore down toward the end of the season. But Willson has more positives than most catchers, that’s for sure.
How many ABs in 2017. Why did you leave that out.
11th in plate appearances in 2017
14th in plate appearances in 2019
That’s a lot of missed ABs for an all around catcher.
And now that I think about it, I heard it after the 2018 season. I wrote this to a friend after the 2019 draft.
“From what I understand, the Cubs pitchers do not like throwing to Contreras. He’s pretty bad at anything that has to do with actually catching a baseball. ”
I didn’t make that up. Some “expert” said it.
Your random probably make believe text to a friend, sounds legit. The last 3 years isn’t a big enough sample size? He had more Abs than realamuto once the dh was implemented last year. You have zero argument
If Phillies and Realmuto can’t come to an agreement on a price Phillies should be in on this.
Blue Jays will probably be in on Contreras and have Jansen or Kirk to offer back as part of the package.
Angels will probably inquire.
unless he takes an extention i think that’s a risk the Phillies cant take. trade for 2 years of a mid 20s catcher who is seemingly about to become the best C in the game while you still have other holes to fill. where have i heard that one before?
Come on Al Avila.. get your building block!
You don’t build with 2 years of a Catcher. Rather see Casali and Rogers.
They did it with pudge in 2004 at 32 years of age. Whose to say the couldn’t extend Contreras, if it went through? But, I would certainly not mind Casali, if we’re talking bare minimum! How Grayson Greiner is still on the active roster is appalling, and a slap in the face to us DET fans.
I can’t wait to see the list of scrubs they get for Contreras.
Can’t be any worse than James Shields for Fernando Tatis Jr.
ha!
Fernando who?
Oh you mean the guy nobody knew about until years after the trade? Don’t get me started on the list of Cubs awful trades over the years, for guys EVERYONE knew about.
Kris Bryant has to be next, right? Like, he’s expensive, he’s regressed a bit, he won’t be on a competitive club next season if they keep him…. They let Schwarber go….
Do we think Jason Heyward is gonna ask to be traded next? He’s got 3 years left and he’s productive and a good defender and moderately priced for this day and age.
Bryant has zero trade value, and the Cubs want a haul for him. Problem. I think he stays unless it’s some crazy multi-team deal or the Cubs attach him to Hendricks or Marquez, and they’d want max value for those two if they were going to trade them. I don’t think Bryant moves. At the least, Bryant will rebuild his value by July and get moved at the deadline though.
Bryant has value. Not as much as the Cubs are trying to get for him, but he was a 4.8 fWAR player the last time baseball played a full season in 2019, and he’s only 29. That’s plenty of value.
But he’s gonna have to make more than the $18.6M he made this year (on paper, that is) which was a massive salary increase over 2018, so…. what the heck are the Cubs gonna do? Couldn’t they release him? Someone would pick him up for like $7.5M or so on the open market…
Do you realize you are typing the same comment, over and over, on the same post? You have no idea what Bryant’s value is just stop.
I’ve made like 3 comments and they’ve been about different aspects…why are you the comment police? lol. Just stop.
Define moderately priced? He can ask, sure. The problem is he’s owed 60 plus M the next three years. He’s a COF, that’s average to below average everyday offensive player, that you’re going to hide in the bottom third of your lineup and probably looking to platoon. He’s stuck unless the Cubs bite a vast majority of that contract.
If he were a plus CF it might be a bit different story, but hard to see much interest unless a team believes his 20 was a sign of things to come at probably 2/3 of his current price.
As in not $21, 22, 23, 30, etc. per year, like a lot of guys. I never understood that contract in the first place and thought they way overpaid for him but that was the market for him and I wish I understood how he didn’t get like 5 years/$77.5M or something.
Heyward is untradeable. He is 31, owed 65 M over the next three years and has registered only 8.6 WAR in the last five years.
Astros
Potato salad
Cubs fans just had their entire 2021 baseball calendar open up
It will be another 108 years before they get back to the World Series. Hello White Sox. Why did they trade Caratini? That was Yu’s favorite receiver, so what’s next. Nobody is willing to come to a team under a rebuild.
I’m sure teams have known for a while that Contreras and others i.e. Darvish etc are available. Explains why Bauer, Realmuto etc haven’t signed yet. These trades are really throwing a wrench in the FA market
Angels receive: Contreras, and bryant
Cubs receive: jo adell, upton
Just a thought, open to dialogue but no need for hateful messages. Just a fan not a gm
Yikes
I don’t see the Angels moving Upton. He’s too good of an outfielder for them yet. Only way I could see that is if Cubs eat most of Heyward’s contract and send him back. Also, Adell isn’t going anywhere. He’s a half season away from being a permanent outfielder for the Angels.
I think adell has to much swing and miss to be an everyday player. I think marsh will be the better player but it’s a risk I’d take for Contreras and bryant who could slot into uptons spot in the outfield.
The Angels would fall down on their knees and pray to the baseball gods for thanks if someone would take Upton — and that awful contract — from them.
Angels aren’t trading Adell for anyone. Trout is already on the Angels so they can actually say that.
You don’t know what the Angels would do. Comparing Adell to Trout is one of your more ridiculous statements. Do you even watch baseball?
I don’t understand Marty’s comment, but how is he comparing Adell to Trout?
No upton unless angels eat most the salary or eat some and take heyward. Or take kimbrel. Cubs want rid of salary and prospects.
If angels get some pitching and some good vibes going it wouldn’t surprise me to see upton have a solid year.
Upton has a full no trade clause on top of one of the worst contracts in baseball. After being traded around a lot earlier in his career I’m not sure he’d want to be traded again.
Contreras to the Yankees for Sanchez. I’m kidding, but stranger things have happened.
Yankees might be in on Contreras too. Sanchez and prospects doesn’t seem like a far reach considering the recent comments.
I hate the Yankees, but if I were them I’d definitely get something done.
I’m with ya, 100% with every word here.
Hendricks and Contreras to the Yankees for Sanchez and 4 prospects.
This needs to happen. He’s the most valuable trade asset they currently have and should bring in a haul. Things need to change. They’ve been stuck in mediocrity last 3 seasons and even with Darvish, Contreras, bryant etc, they can’t contend with the Dodgers, Padres, and Braves. They can trade those 3 and still have a roster that can compete for the weakest division in baseball with a few cheap veteran signings to replace them.
Don’t forget the Mets!!!!!!!
What do you mean? The mets are so clearly ahead of everyone else, that there is no point in even mentioning your team competing against them. Don’t you know, they’re gonna sign all of the players…all of them.
A lot of people upset about something that hasn’t happened
This is their ticket to getting a good starting pitcher prospect they desperately need as a headliner since he’s not a pure rental.
He’s more of a rental than Darvish.
Darvish was owed a lot of $$ and Contreras not so much for 2yrs at weakest mlb position. Rental aspect comment was relative to Bryant/Baez in their walk years. They don’t get you a really good pitching prospect.
Think more of a darvish return. Young high upside. Not top 50. Teams could have signed a catcher this year or last if they wanted one so badly.
So they don’t want any catchers on their 26 man roster. Smart Jed. Very smart. You can’t get less than 4 players for him and at least 2 need to be top 10 prospects. After the yu and Caratini trade. Jed probably asks about the ball boy. You can’t trade the 2nd best catcher in baseball for scraps
I didn’t realize Will Smith, Salvador Perez, and Yasmani Grandal had died.
Grandal barely makes the top 10. Perez could be slightly better. Call it a tie with Willson and Salvador. Will Smith is nowhere near the skill level of anyone of those catchers. Hitting a homerun in the world series off his namesake doesn’t suddenly make him better than Willson Contreras. You’re insane if you think he’s even close to that.
Grandal’s ranked 1st or 2nd overall among catchers depending what your source is. Dumb Cubs fans discount everyone, so it’s not like your biased opinion matters at all anyway. Good luck with no catcher next season! lol
*discount everyone not in a Cubs uni.
Smith has something like a 920 OPS and close to 30 home runs in something like 90 games. That kind of production with his average defense puts him over Contreras in my opinion. Yasmani Grandal is widely accepted to be the best catcher who’s name is not JT Realmuto. I’d even add mitch garver to the list if he bounces back.
Realmuto is most known for a non stat pitch framing. Contreras is a better defensive catcher than Smith, grandal and realmuto
@wrek305
Don’t get me wrong buddy I think Contreras is a really good catcher top 5 for sure. There are just a few other catchers I would prefer. I’m glad we can talk about our opinions. I just value different things in a catcher. I really do believe will Smith is a top 3 catcher. He is still young and his defensive prowess should grow with time. I do think it would be cool to have a Wiliam and wilson Contreras split though. I am hoping the Braves let the younger Contreras split time with d`Arnoud next year.
Rangers need to be on Hoyer’s doorstep rn. Id love to see Contreras land in Texas.
Shocker – you think the Rangers are in on everyone. Someone needs to you that Texas is not a legit contender and won’t be making splash high salary additions any time soon. Far more likely to deal for prospects than the other way around.
And probably don’t have to worry about filling a full ballpark for a full season.
I know we aren’t in the running, but I can still want him. Fuddy duddy.
I think they may have to wait until Realmuto signs for interest to pick up! He’s a good player when healthy. He does need to work on keeping his emotions in check, he’s a little on the immature side.
This somehow became more relevant:
mlb.com/news/a-cubs-fan-s-obituary-asks-for-donati…
Hendricks has to be on the block too, then, I’d imagine. And I’d like to imagine him in Angels red.
Hendricks is an interesting piece. I’d include Marsh in a Hendricks trade.
I doubt it. For the 11 mil he gets, he keeps turning in nice seasons. He’s taylormade for wrigley field. I think they have 0 plans to deal him.
It’s $14 million for each of the next three years. He does turn in great seasons, but if this is a tear down, why not tear it all the way down?
Then again the Central is bad enough right now that Hendricks and some scrap heap guys give the Cubs a shot to compete in it.
If the plan is to sell everyone they can and rebuild, it wouldn’t make much sense to hold onto Hendricks. As much as I love the guy, he’d have to be dealt too. They should get one heck of a nice prospect package for him.
The issue with keeping would be that his current contract ends after 2023 with a 2024 vesting option that he can refuse. If they start now with the rebuild, Hendricks might be there for the first year of contention…. maybe. with his very team-friendly contract, there isn’t a team in the majors that wouldn’t be able to acquire him as long as they have sort of prospect package the Cubs would want. To keep him around in the hopes that he might still be around at age 34 for a single year of contention… when you can get cornerstone type pieces for him is less than wise.
While i understand your point…if you going blow it up as it appears hendriks the perfect candidate to trade he is probably a top 15 pitcher in the mlb and as you pointed out comes cheap so why not move him he should command a decent haul
Dogbone’s big hairy mom just stopped grunting long enough to snort out “blow it up”.
@Sliderdownandin
You have my vote for Post of the Year.
Awesome post!
AHHH! Its a FIRE………..sale.
Realmuto’s market takes another hit as a team like the Angels will jump in for Wilson. It’s really going to be a two team race between Nats/Phils. He’s not getting more than 5/120 at this point. He should have taken the Mets money while he had the chance.
Guess you can say that Realmuto’s asking price of $100 Million+ 5 year contract let alone the 5/120 you cite isn’t exactly creating a bidding war for his services….at least for now…. his options beyond returning to the Phillies may be getting rather thin.
angels need him
Lifelong Cubs fan here….words can’t describe level of anger….it would be worth whatever criminal charge to punch any of the Ricketts family in the face right now – cheap bastards this is worse than anything then the previous ownership group did
Third highest revenues in the MLB, record revenues last year.
Umm, I guess you mean 2019? They certainly did not have record revenues in 2020. The Cubs have gone on record to say that close to 70% of their annual revenue comes from game day attendance. If that is true, the Cubs probably lost the most money in baseball last year. Most other MLB teams are closer to 40%.
White Sox only lost like 200-300 bucks without fans. Of course they are spenders this year.
People complain about the Rays, but they have been consistent w their methodology and done quite well; they have a roster and a farm system that are deep and loaded.
Cubs appear to have no direction–the Yu trade was questionable at best. What an embarrassment. The Cubs make a lot of $$$, and have always spent, and now the owner suddenly can’t afford it? Awful.
I liked it better when the Hot Stove wasn’t lit my my team’s fire sale.
While he projects more as a backup, the Cubs do have PJ Higgins who split 2019 between AA Tennessee and AAA Iowa and was named to the Southern League All Star team. It’s quite plausible that he becomes the temporary heir-apparent if they trade Contreras, while Miguel Amaya gets more time in AA or AAA… assuming there will be a minor league season next year.
Good catchers that can hit are so hard to find. His defense and framing is looking fantastic. Cubs should pair him with Amaya for a year and a half and then make a decision on wether to try to extend. He’s the last player I would trade.
I agree with you. In fact, I was kind of hoping the Cubs would trade Caratini when he had his highest trade value last winter, and bring up Higgins as Contreras’s backup. I think he has a chance to carry over his offensive success to the MLB level, but he’s regarded as one of the better defensive C prospects in AA or above the past couple of years.
This will be one ugly rebuild considering how terrible the Cubs farm system is and Contreras is really the only valuable piece to move in a trade besides Hendricks. Everyone else is gonna be selling low because of contracts and poor performance. My guess is at least 5 to 7 years before the Cubs are good again.
Why not sign Yadier Molina and lose only money if it does not work out?
Because Molina has been in steady decline for 4 years, will turn 39 in July, and isn’t as good of an overall C as Contreras is at this point. Oh, and will likely cost more in terms of money… assuming he doesn’t re-sign with the Cardinals, which is expected.
I wonder how much of this has to do with the ADA lawsuit. The Cubs spent $750 million on stadium renovations the suit alleges are not ADA compliant, meaning the might need to rip down and redo a decent chunk of that.
No. This is because daddy Ricketts has all the money – Tom is just a multi-millionaire (not a billionaire). He had to finance much of the sale, so he started out in debt. Once he got a title, he now felt en-titled (see what I did there?) to recoup his losses. He also put a lot into the Wrigley experience, hotel, parking structure, etc., and those stadium renovations you are mentioning. No excuses – he can make a tidy profit if/when he sells the team. But for now, this is the way it appears and it’s not just the pandemic. Ricketts started getting cheap two years ago. If you look at how much Theo was allowed the spend the last couple of offseasons, you will realize Rickets’ diabolical plan starting to form. The pandemic just piled onto everything else making for a fire sale for Hoyer.
Seriously , you think wheel chair ramps inspired these train wreck trades?
The prospect of having to redo large portions of a $750,000,000 renovation have to impact every aspect of the business, so yes. The Feds are reviewing Wrigley and if they have to tear down and redo those upgrades, the financial cost will be huge.
I think your on to something Lefty. They want to rid themselves of the bum catchers they had and sign a first ballot Hall of Famer just to see what’s it’s like to have a great catcher for a year.
He’ll probably make it some year, but first ballot, I’d bet against that. He doesn’t have the offensive stats. He’s like Omar Vizquel.
He’ll certainly make it and not have to wait on the feel sorry for them veterans like that worthless santo did.
Considering that only three third baseman (Pie Traynor, Eddie Mathews, and Brooks Robinson) had been voted in by the writers while he was eligible, I would say Santo was undervalued.
Trading Willson Contreras on the heels of dealing Yu Darvish and Victor Caratini would signal a Cubs rebuild is coming…unless they turn around and sign free agent catcher J.T. Realmuto. If Contreras is dealt without another catcher coming back in a trade or free agency the Cubs pitchers would have no experienced catcher to receive them in 2021.
Ding! Ding! The bell rings for the winner! Of course it’s a rebuild. No matter what they may have led us to believe, that’s what this is, I believe. Now, how far they’re willing to take it? Maybe not a complete teardown, but let’s say that Nightengale is his wrong, as usual – after 2021, Rizzo, Baez & Bryant walk, unless they’re signed to an extension (which I doubt), and Contreras enters his final season. Sounds like a rebuild…retool…recalibration…whatever word you want to use.
The Cubs aren’t just rebuilding. They’re dumping salary, which indicates they’re not interested in adding large contracts. So you can forget about J.T., or anybody with a pulse getting picked up. The Cubs are cashing in, and Cubs fans should be fired up and canceling their season tickets if they were smart.
Cub fans are not like Sox fans. They support their team no matter what. Go have another beer and beat your wife or wait probably your mom.
ChiSoxCity you are correct
This should be the final wakeup call for all the fans and pundits (ahem, Jon Heyman) who’ve been saying the Cubs are likely to bring back Jon Lester. Unless Lester will take a $1M one-year deal with NO incentives, it ain’t happening.
Maybe they are saving up for next years FA class!!
What the Cubs owners are doing is a disservice to its fans and shows that they are more content with One Championship rather than pushing the needle when the Nucleus was at its peak and rather then try to be a dynasty they got their Chip and that was it the rest is history,
As a Yankees fan one thing I loved about George Steinbrenner you may hate the guy but he was never shy about winning and did whatever he could to field championship level teams he felt a prospect is only as good as a napkin once it gets wet you have to see would you be able to use that napkin again or throw it away immediately. yes most would say where has it got them with the wild spending I can say where has it gotten them since they started to tighten the purse strings.
Just like the Rays get all this attention regarding their farm but if you really look at their past players from the minors to today how many have gone on to other teams and truly be successful? Which had me thinking could it be because of the low attendance and no real backlash from fans that they can play loose and once traded they bum out with the exception of Price whom did good work with Boston but then flamed out hard to pinpoint successful former Rays once traded that were from the farm.
As for Contreras why not trade him and start the rebuild now and get what you can high end or Bryant as for Rizzo not much trade value with him the Cubs had their chance many times to trade Kyle until they just released him.
Braxton Garrett, Jorge Guzman, Jerar Encarnacion/Burdick and Magneuris Sierra/Harold Ramirez/Jorge Alfaro for Contreras.
Who says no?
Cubs get Braxton, a potential no 2 starter. Guzman, a potential closer, Encarnacion/Burdick, prospect with potential power OF bat, and either a young outfielder to help for the loss of Almora and Schwarber (or a young catcher to replace Contreras).
Marlins get an all-star catcher to help develop their pitching.
I don’t know, I think Cubs need at least one top 100 prospect in the deal. Catchers who are fairly young and athletic, with solid offensive skills are very hard to find. Im not expecting Sixto, of course, but one of Meyer/Cabrera plus one of Chisholm/Sanchez would get it done. If Braxton was a #2 he would be listed in MLB.com’s top 100.
Guzman is their #26-ranked prospect; Encarnacion is #17; Burdick is #16; Now, I do like Braxton (#7), tho I don’t have him as highly rated as you, But like I said, add a top 100 and you got a deal. (Well, actually, I wouldn’t trade Willie but this is only if the Cubs have to).
One of the wealthiest teams in the game, a team that won their division, are having a fire sale, seemingly not caring what they get back. Depressing for the game.
Does anyone want to win the NL Central?
Seems like the Cardinals will win it by virtue of simply not dismantling everything.
Here’s my take. They end up not getting Campusano from the Cubs, which would’ve given them a MLB ready catcher. Now with no backup readily available, they’re shopping their other catcher? Imo it’s too early to bring up Jacob Amaya. So now what?
This, no doubt, is why Theo left. No sense sticking around when you’re forced to tear down such a great Organization. The Cubbies made the Playoffs, could easily have won the whole thing if the bats hadn’t gone cold, and going into the Off-Season had powerful hitters and elite pitching as the foundation for another World Series run next year. Instead of building on that foundation, which just about any other team in baseball would dream of having, they chose to tear everything down. It’s absolute madness, and they should be ashamed of themselves for the way they’re treating this proud and historic franchise.
To make matters worse, without Theo, they’re not just tearing things down, they’re tearing them down as badly as possible. When Theo first came to Chicago he had to do some selling, to restock our Farm System. He sold assets far less valuable than Yu Darvish, and got far, far more for them. Theo knows how to trade, this new guy clearly does not. So not only are we tearing down when we should be building up, we’re getting pennies on the dollar what we should be getting for what we’re selling, because we’ve got a vastly inferior guy doing the selling. It’s lose-lose for the Cubs and their great fans. Sad!
When Theo was selling off his contracts, 27 of 30 teams weren’t cutting payroll due to a year of lost revenue. That the Cubs were able to move Darvish’s contract in this environment is actually pretty impressive.
Hmm, Jays trade C Danny Jansen, P Alek Manoah, P Trent Thornton, Randal Grichuk, and IF Santiago Espinal for Contreras and Kyle Hendricks. Who says no?
Anyone w common sense?
If you are a Jays fan, you are a bad one.
Both. Jays can keep Espinal. Cubs won’t want Grichuk.
Double post. My bad.
Wtf is wrong with you? Thats ludicrous. If anything they line up more on something like McGuire plus for Bryant pending tradung thus catcher
Why did they trade for a rental starter in Zach Davies if they are having a fire sale? And please don’t say “The Padres included him as a salary offset.” Only players with underwater contracts can be salary offsets. If Davies had an underwater contract he would have been non-tendered.
If they didn’t include an actual starting pitcher they have to pay 3 free agents instead 2. They trade Hendricks they have to sign 4. They have no starting pitchers unless they just want to role out 5 AAAA pitchers and have their arms fall off.
And why not roll out 5 AAAA arms? They aren’t contending in 2021 anyway so all Zach Davies does is cost them $ and hurt their draft position.
They need multiple pitchers to throw 150+ innings. They simply don’t have them. You still have to play 162 innings without ruining 25 arms.
I agree with iml, It’s unproductive for those young guys still developing and they needed someone to stabilize the rotation, especially if Hendricks becomes available
I expect them to flip Davies either very soon or in the summer
@ruckus727 they aren’t going to get more for Davies in the summer when he only has 2-3 months of control left as opposed to a full season. They are going to get less.
Again. Just use waiver claims or AAA org fillers. The Cubs aren’t contending in 2021. Might as well shoot for that high draft pick. Worked out well with Kris Bryant.
I’d like to see the Mets involved. McCann can only be expected to catch 2/3 of the season at best, anyway. A Contreras/McCann tandem would look a heckuva lot better than a McCann/Nido pairing.
Neither Contreras nor McCann is a backup. Nido’s a good catcher who’s occasionally clutch. But if possible, yeah—Contreras is much better than Nido! Mets need Springer & Bauer; trade Nimmo Rosario Gsellman Matz and win the WS.
The Mets are years away from competing for a ring.
To say they are years away is a pretty general statement. Basically you are just saying you have no idea
Whatever to all the haters
I wish the Tigers’ ignorant GM has even heard of Cubs’ prospect catcher Campusano.
How do you trade for four position player prospects and not a single pitching prospect when young pitching is the Cubs greatest need? That is the most baffling and frustrating part of the Darvish trade
Great point, was my question too.
The problem with this isn’t trading him cause amaya isnt their only catching prospect he is the best defensive but they have two others who can hit well albeit couple years off yet but show promise..the problem is this for sure means a total rebuild and my concern they wont get true value for him..he should be worth two top 20 prospects talent…he is still young and controllable and proven great defender with above average bat and comes cheap this cant be a salary dump at 5 millish they need to get a big return… catchers with his tool set are hard to come by
Org top 20? or Top 20 all of baseball?
I agree. Contreras can do everything above average or better. He’s even got good speed for a catcher. With his production and all around game and his price point, even with only 2 years of control, he should command a huge return. You’re right, catchers of his skill set are hard to come by. And expensive. I think he’s worth two or three of a team’s top 10 prospects including one elite prospect.
The problem is a lack of proper punctuation.
Man, that hurt to read.
How awesome would it be for the White Sox to add another significant contract (or two) this offseason, in the midst of the car wreck on the northside? “Reports indicate the Chicago White Sox have acquired George Springer and Liam Hendriks…”. BOOM!SHAKA-LAKA!!!
You forgot about their Realamuto and Bauer signings too
You have the same problem trying to trade Contreras as J.T. Realmuto has trying to get a contract: there are basically only two teams likely willing to jump in on this.
Toronto has Catching depth to spare and can easily package Jansen and a couple of other players. The Phillies don’t have Catching depth hence the need for a Realmuto/Contreras.
Seattle could possibly use Contreras if they think he could help them turn the corner, we know DiPoto is not afraid to make trades. The Rockies could use some help behind the plate, as could the Tigers. However unless its Toronto i don’t see the Cubs getting much back in return
Jansen has 4 yrs of control vs 2. Jays are not giving up Jansen plus any top 15 prospects for 2 yrs .
That sort of illustrates my point. Adding Contreras to an already bad market for Catchers isn’t likely to bring back the return the Cubs are expecting unless Toronto decides that Contreras is a better option than Jansen or Realmuto gets to be too expensive or signs elswhere
The only way the Jays give up anyone substantial would be if they sent Jansen elsewhere for pitching. Steamers has Jansen at 2.2War and Contreras at 2 for the coming season.. Jansen had a horrible 60 game season but 2019 he was a gold glove finalist and 2018 his first partial year was great.
You are right there will not be a swarm of suitors lining up to make offers.
But Jansen sucks so why does number of years matter
Do it!!…Tear it down, it pains me as a Cubs fan to say it.Theo didn’t want to be part of another rebuild,this is Jed hoyer team now time to liquidate assets and get all you can while guys still have value and aren’t straight salary dumps!
This is a Nightengale report. Ignore it until confirmed.
hahahah Racist Ricketts out of money, no wonder theo left
Blow cubs blow!
Hey Chicago what do you say?
The cubs are going to lose today!
Blow cubs blow!
Yankees need to be in. Hendricks should be available as well along with Rizzo.
Package up Voit, Ottavino, Fraizer and Hicks for Rizzo, Contreras and Hendricks.
Not even close seeing how Hicks and Ottavino have negative value contracts.
If Cubs are rebuilding, that offer is unappealing. Too many $$$ on the players coming back, and too few years of control.
I legitimately wouldn’t do all four of those guys for any one of those Cubs I don’t think. Just my opinion. Not saying it’s right or wrong.
Cubs should be all over that trade. Why wouldn’t they want all the yankees crappy contracts and bench players for their best pitcher and one of the best catchers and first baseman in the mlb.
Lol Yankee fan trade ideas.
Let’s trade our bad contracts and old players for their best players! Heck, just give the Cubs Hicks and Ottavino, why include Frazier?
Oh ok Bob … any other terrible trade ideas?
Cubs want young controllable talent in exchange for him, they aren’t going to take on contractual commitments like Hicks’, etc. so they can dump one of the best catchers in the league.
If Yankees were serious, we would have to give proven young talent back. If you throw Hendricks in, be prepared to literally give up our farm system. Cubs may want to save money but they aren’t stupid. For Contreras alone, we would probably be looking at Garcia, Wells, and mid-level pitching prospect (Contreras, Gil, etc). That’s IF they want to get rid of him. Adding a top-tier quality starter like Hendricks bring that discussion into unrealistic territory, imho.
Andujar can be added to the deal to sweeten the pot.
This is madness. About time things started heating up. Exciting baseball ahead.
I am a huge Cubs fan but I live in Los Angeles. Can you Cubs fans in Chicago please go to Wrigley Field and demand them to answer a simple question, “WTF are you doing?”
Not one person in this board has figured out that Ricketts is selling the team. Jed’s job is to drop the payroll as low as possible, fill up the minors with prospects, and let the new buyer make the organization be what they want it to be. Isn’t this obvious?
Hoyer needs to establish and guard his credibility. When he said the Darvish trade was “not financially motivated,” Cubbies fans go wha…
Apparently you are the only one smart enough to make that claim. Any proof? Or just imagination? Btw, thanks for conversing w us non-educated baseball folk!
Cubsnomore it is not obvious. They have a billion invested in the neighborhood. They are keeping the Cubs.
We’ve been told the last two off seasons that changes is coming. Last year they didn’t do a thing. I for one am glad they are actually doing something. Since 2017 we’ve stood pat and have not achieved success outside of the regular season, and even then we have under preformed. This should come to no surprise the direction the team is going, two off season of being told we are going to shed salary and we are going to have change. Its finally happening.
And with the talent we still have on the field, we can still compete for the Central title. Cardinals have done nothing, Milwaukee has traded a good pitcher and lost a few players to FA, Reds traded away a dominant bullpen piece and lost Bower, and the Pirates were already garbage and traded away their best player and are looking to trade their best pitcher. The Central is winable even with our current rotation.
Jed we could ask but we would not get an answer since they do not know wtf they are doing baseball wise. Financially it is obvious.
2 prospects and Gary Sanchez for him?
”.. Hoyer, who stressed that the Darvish trade was “not financially motivated,”
You just lost all credibility with that one, Jed. What else could it possibly be? We’re trading the 2020 Cy Young runner up because we need more teenagers in rookie league? AJ fleeced you.
No, it’s not implausible. Davies is almost 7 years younger than Yu and was very good last year. Yes, he’s in his walk year, but the Cubs can extend him. They essentially gave up a win or two downgrading from Yu to Davies, plus a backup catcher, in exchange for getting much younger at that #2 SP position and adding four promising very young prospects. Not a crazy deal at all. And it’s also possible the Cubs suspect 2020 was a freak year for Yu and age is about to get him. He’s frequently injured and will turn 35 this season.
Davies’ youth is irrelevant–he is gone after 2021. Four promising prospects? They are lottery tickets–too young to tell, but hard to believe he could not have received something if proven value in return. I sure hope you are not arguing this was not financially motivated–i don’t know how much more obvious that could be.
Hoyer got fleeced here. Period. He looks bad and is trying to cover it up. I am sure Cubs fans will try to rationalize it, but the Cubs are more worried about $ than their fans at this point. Awful ownership.
The only saving grace for Jed is Davies performing on par with Darvish and they sign him for a reasonable extension. I’d give that about a 4 percent chance.
you posted my thoughts and agree totally! I just hope they go spend most of the money they saved on this move. to land some free agents this year. after the big name free agents sign ,there should be some good valued player out there.
So padres giving up the cheaper Version of darvish in the trade plus 4 top 15 of there prospects is fleeced? Padres had the 2 farm in majors
Please. Davies is no Darvish, and none of these four is considered a top prospect. A good farm does not mean all the prospects are hot.
Hoyer cashed in his chips at the blackjack table and ran. .
Exactly right Dr Dan. You don’t get rid of arguably your best pitcher if it’s not financial. At worst Darvish was the #2. Either it’s financial or they didn’t believe Darvish could help them in 2021. The latter is as absurd as Hoyer’s comment.
This trade was 100% financially motivated along with a future return. If the Cubs could rid themselves of Heyward with a healthy return they would do it in a heartbeat.
Every year I click on sportrac thinking this must be heywards last year, I am always shocked how many years are left. He’s only overpaid by like 15 million a year until 2032. With that said it was probably better than resigning Fowler.
I’m not a big Jed fan but the Cubs payroll was at $218 mil last year and they couldn’t get out of the first round of the playoffs, not to mention their other failures beginning in 2017, so something needed to change. Maybe Cubs management is looking to eliminate underperformance, aka Lester, Schwarber and Almora, and the risk that Darvish could regress again. With the exits of Lester, Chatwood, Schwarber, Almora, Darvish, Caratini, etc the team’s payroll is currently down about $54 mil. from last year.
Even though Davies is only under control for this coming year, the team does have young arms in Abbott and Alzolay who should be ready to complete for the rotation this year and you have Mills returning and Marquez arriving most likely next year. The question is who else will they add to the roster this year.? They need a lefty for the rotation and a left fielder unless they are going to keep Bryant and have him move to left. I can see a way they could improve the team yet from last year and still have lopped $25 mil off the payroll from last year. Is that enough?
Nimmo (lf), Matz (lefthanded), Davis and Rosario could probably all be had from the Mets in the right deal. A bigger maybe would be Dom Smith if the Cubs want to unload Rizzo somewhere else.
I’m sure the Mets would listen on Bryant, Contreras, starting pitching, CF…
I was about to have a WTF moment before but after seeing what Hoyer said coupled with the fact that is was Nightengale coming out with the report I should have known.
I do wonder what kind of trade package Contreras would net. I guess JTR would be the trade they would base it off.
People got understand with Darvish, that his contract was so underwater just little over a year ago and looked like it was headed to being on the of the worst contracts in baseball, then Darvish turned a 180 which is very rare and regained his value. Hoyer simply cashed in and bailed while he had his chance as the odds say his value will only regress from here.
The Cubs are retooling (not rebuilding) and by the time the Cubs window opens again it will likley be when Darvish is 36 and in his final year, so there was really no use for him the next year or two pitching for the Cubs, Davies is no Darvish but he will work for next season, the 4 guys they got are not nobodies but a few years away and very raw but all have a intriguing upside.
It was about $. If not, you hold on to him even if you are a few years from contending (which I would say they are not, but the Central is a joke). They are trying to save money. The return for him and a solid backup catcher was embarrassing. Four lottery tickets. Hoyer flunked on this one, spin it however you want. Cubs fans should be ticked.
Cubs fans should be asking for his dismissal.
Darvish trade “not financially motivated” lololol. Sure! We wanted to trade our second best pitcher for four lottery tickets and a back of the rotation guy! And we threw in Caratini for the fun of it!
Oh please. This guy is a liar. Obv he has to try and be diplomatic, but only a fool would believe that statement.
Remember how Cubs fans felt about Darvish in June 2020? Start of July 2020?
That was 5 months ago
He’s FAR from the sure thing you pretend he suddenly is
After his second half of 2019 I was pumped about July 2020 Darvish.
I did NOT shop him. I did not! Oh hi, Tom
Let me guess, it would take “Babe Ruth” to trade him..
The Yankees should check on the price for Contreras AND Rizzo. Send Voit and some top prospects?
The Yankees are looking to decrease payroll. Rizzo and Contreras will add over $23M in salary. Rizzo is a free agent after 2021, so he’s rental, while Voit has four years of control left. Don’t see it happening and with the Yankees throwing in top prospects. They’re two top prospects are pitchers, both who they need.
I thought the Yankees should have inquired about Freddie Freeman years ago before ATL became contenders again. He’s untouchable now.
Hoyer is trying to save face
It didn’t work.
No one is going to admit to shopping a valuable player. Weakens their trade market.
The Indians and Francisco Lindor say hi…
I’d like to believe Jed but i don’t. Moving Darvish was 100% financially motivated and we know they are shopping Contreras because we’ve been hearing these rumors since last winter.
Piratee fans sitting back and laughing when they call their owner cheap.
Just curious, what WOULD it take for the Mets to land Contreras?
Nimmo, Nido, Davis and Matz? Is that too much? Cubs get a project in Matz that, if fixed, can be flipped or kept. They get a decent back up catcher in Nido and two every day players who could thrive in Chicago. Davis also frees up a Bryant trade. Could the Mets get both Bryant and Contreras?