Though the Mets and Cubs tabled their talks for Kris Bryant at some point last month, SNY’s Andy Martino reports that the two sides have re-engaged to some extent more recently.
As outlined here in the past, any trade involving Bryant would be complicated for myriad reasons. The former NL Rookie of the Year and MVP is coming off his worst season, though that came in a truncated 2020 schedule, making it more difficult to evaluate his ability to rebound. He’s also controlled for only one more season and owed a hefty $19.5MM at a time when most clubs throughout the league are wary of taking on more money. There’s also little hope of Bryant, a Scott Boras client, signing an extension — be it with the Cubs or with a new team that acquires him in a trade.
Martino indicates that the Mets have been looking for takers to offload relievers Dellin Betances and/or Jeurys Familia, both of whom are signed through 2021 at rather inflated amounts. Betances exercised a player option valued at $6.8MM for the coming season, while Familia is owed $11MM this coming season ($1MM of which is deferred until 2022). His contract also contains a $1MM assignment bonus in the event of a trade. Speculatively speaking, the Mets could try to push either reliever on the Cubs as something of a financial counterweight.
Of course, the Mets already have a third baseman who’s been a productive hitter for them: 27-year-old J.D. Davis. New York controls Davis all the way through the 2024 season, and while his ceiling isn’t as high as Bryant’s, Davis has been every bit as productive as Bryant over the past couple seasons (.288/.370/.483 to Bryant’s .267/.365/.488). Davis, however, is owed just $2.1MM this year and eligible for three more raises in arbitration between now and the 2024-25 offseason.
Martino adds that the Cubs have at times expressed interest in acquiring Davis themselves, which isn’t a shock given his affordable price tag and recent level of production. However, getting the Mets to part with Davis in return for Bryant alone seems decidedly unlikely. Even attaching Familia’s final year to Davis would still mean the Mets were taking on more than $6MM in new salary and parting with four years of Davis in exchange for one year of a hopeful Bryant rebound.
It’s easy to conjure up more elaborate scenarios in which the Cubs send Bryant and an established pitcher to the Mets, who could use an upgrade in the rotation to push Joey Lucchesi into more of a depth role. The Mets just missed on Trevor Bauer in free agency, and they’ve recently been linked to free-agent starters. The Cubs adding any MLB pitching help to a potential deal would likely necessitate adding more pieces on the Mets’ side, however, further illustrating the difficult nature of actually coming to an agreement on such a layered discussion.
I still believe the Dodgers should trade for Bryant and move on from Turner.
If they’re deadening the ball this season, I’d rather have Turner.
@Fred, just going by overall SLG stats across the board, it seemed that at least the tighter stitching on the ball and the increase of pitchers’ blisters peaked in 2018.
But similar to franchise expenses, who really knows what has been going on with the ball on the manufacturing side unless you’re a Rawlings insider.
I could see that, but if they don’t resign him then it’s just a one year rental. And the Dodgers don’t give out a whole lotta mega deals.
If you trade for a guy with one year left on his contract it’s a one year rental no matter what. Even if you do sign him later, that is a separate transaction.
Good lord man. There’s 30 teams. Let someone else pick up a star or two
Dodgers signed ONE star in the last decade probably. not their fault the FO values the farm and they raise stars.
Dodgers gave up strong packages to get Manny and Mookie. Bryant wouldn’t cost nearly as much. Couple 10 to 20 guys gets it down.
Probably not even that much.
No, the Cubs made it clear that they will not trade Bryant unless they get a sweetheart return, whatever that means… My interpretation is either a 10-20 teenager with blue chip prospect ceiling or a top 10 prospect that can contribute soon… The Cubs have already shown interest in that top catching prospect the Mets have. So don’t expect a salary dump.
Kind of hard to get that return right now considering he’s close to 20M, coming off a bad year, is a free agent next year, and…Boras is his agent.
I agree, so, unless the Cubs give in (and there hasn’t been any indication that they will), then chances are the Cubs will start the season with KB at 3B.
What would be the point for the Mets then? He’s coming off an injury and the Mets have a guy at 3B who will likely have the same numbers as Bryant this year and isn’t going to be a FA..
How do you know he will have the same numbers? JD Davis did it for a full season, KB has a real track record… That said, JD Davis can’t play defense and maybe the Mets plan on trading him. They did pick up Villar after all.
Mets not giving up Francisco Alvarez (future starting catcher) for a one year rental.
I think for the right player they might, they have McCAnn for the next 3-4 years. I would consider Familla and Alvarez for Bryant.
Insanity. Really, really bad evaluation
Why would Boras being his agent have any effect on the return?
Because some teams do overpay for the ability to have a chance to sign a guy to an extension
Boras sitting there means there’s very little chance Bryant signs a long term deal unless it’s big dollars
I can’t believe you pay attention to this site and have this little insight into the value of Alvarez vs Bryant.
YourDreamGM –
They paid a decent price for Mookie, but the package they gave up for Manny was pretty freakin’ weak. The Dodgers were just lucky that Diaz happened to be significantly overrated at the time because of a decent year at AA, and all the rest of the guys were way down the Dodger prospect list. Not one of them has amounted to anything as of yet, and none of them possess star potential. Not exactly a strong haul for one of the best players in the game
Lol
Cubs trading Bryant or not is not a decision made by Jed Hoyer, but by ownership. Hoyer carries out their orders. Statements made like “sweetheart return” made by Hoyer sometimes are just said to appease players, fans, and to put a team in a better light with the media. I pay less attention to what is said in these situations. I watch to see what happens more so.
@Lurking no GM pays a premium for the ability to extend a player and if they do they are incompetent and need to be fired.
Are they though? They have a good rotation in DeGrom, Carrasco, Stroman, Syndergaard when he returns, Peterson, and then some depth guys.
Their lineup of McNeil, Lindor, Alonso, Conforto, Bryant, Smith, McCann, Nimmo looks really dangerous. And with veterans like Davis, Martinez, Villar coming off the bench. And their pen is improved with some veterans.
I think they can compete with that one added piece of Bryant. How much better do you want them to get?! Maybe Hader to add to the pen? But that’s being pretty picky if you ask me
Cubs are a dumpster fire.
I bet, they’ll take whatever they can get before the season starts
Replying “lol” adds nothing to a discussion.
I don’t expect the Cubs to accept Bryant is a salary dump, but asking for Alvarez was pretty laughable. I know teams always start high, but if he wasn’t in play for Lindor + Carrasco, he certainly isn’t in play now.
There has been a clear shift in the market for the past 3-5+ years whereas MLB teams are being fiercely protective of their elite prospects. Alvarez or similar talent should only be in play for a top of the rotation arm or a young guy who is already established with cost control. Hendricks + Bryant for Alvarez, Familia, & another #12-20ish prospect. There is a lot of JD talk, but they shouldn’t get him w/o a prospect getting added on the Cubs’ side. I think JD is a valuable bench piece who w. some improvement on defense is a very nice upside player. The Mets should have at least 7 guys playing regularly hit .800 OPS or better…and JD is one of those guys.
This deal would be pretty light if it was attempted 5+ years ago, but the market changed, analytics are impacting deals more, then COVID hit, and now 2/3 of the league are looking to shed payroll, not add. Bryant at $20m, coming off of a really weak ’20 AND being a rental is not an easy sell.
When healthy and productive, Bryant can put up top 10 MVP numbers….but this is basically the worst case scenario for him outside of a major injury. The Mets can afford to wait them out because no team is lining up to take Bryant @ $20m at this point of the season. The Cubs could try and move him mid-season, but what if he is mediocre to bad again? How about if the Cubs stumble and fall 10+ games out by June? Be patient Mets…
Villar was added for a late game defensive sub (CF) and some speed. He would bump Nimmo to LF, Smith to 1B or out. Obviously the DH changes things, but that is somehow still up in the air. 3B is unaffected. Guilorme/McNeil are likely the 2B/3B in some combo. I still think Justin Turner on a 3 year high-ish AAV contract would be my preferred upgrade. Add Rich Hill, maybe sign one more RP and try and dump one of Betances/Familia.. Leave some money for an in-season trade, but that’s it.
true but manny was a rental.
Villar is not really a CFr
The Dodgers can’t help but be mentioned in every conversation. Eventually baseball will devolve into a tourists game where players will choose only between LA, Miami and New York due to their locations, amount of fine sushi restaurants, the closest TMV editing office and potential to bag a washed up 2000s actress like ARod constantly does.
#DillyDilly
It’s only funny because it’s true.
true
@bot tell that to the padres
Angels should get on the horn and take both familia and betances. Hope for a rebound while also getting some prospects from Mets to take those deals. I’d say those too are arguably better than anything they had last year.
Forgetting contracts ,familia,betances,davis a minor leaguer, and nimmo for trout and any starter sound fair?
Yeah sounds great. Tom1968.
Btw – put down the pipe and answer the door. Your family is there for the intervention
Actually, the Angles doing Trout & his massive contract for Pete Alonso isn’t totally crazy. They get a cost controlled young star and can put Trout’s money toward two 20 million dollar outfielders,
Just sayin’.
NIK. I totally get the idea -in the abstract, but ITRW I get AB for the LAA before they trade Trout
So tell me what you give up for trout
I’d give up Nothing for Trout. You can’t make a baseball trade that offers enough to LAA and still leaves you a team that can have a shot at the WS.
You’d have to offer even more than that to allow LAA to win the PR / Marketing discussion.
The only trade is $300MM – $400MM in cash and a couple players if LAA did something like short Gamesstop for $1B. MLB wouldn’t approve that…
Mjshof – ganja is legal out here in cali (not sure what backwards state you are in) so make sure to clarify what is in that pipe
Lickspittle- right here in flyover heaven w/ my F150 or Scardale NY or a pension on Costa del Sol.
I’d trade Trout and Upton to the Dodgers for Bellinger, Buehler and Seager. And Dodgers eat every cent.
For one reason or another LAA hangs up. They probably want more and they certainly can’t sell it to their fans
For as much as I love Petey Alonso, Nik’s offer of Trout for Petey needs to happen 10/10 times. The Angels would want back some top prospects too, Having another major market team on the rise acquire Trout would be huge for the league. Trout + Lindor + DeGrom are arguably 3 of the top 10 best current players in the league. This would have a 0.01% chance to happen outside of The Show…but a guy can dream I guess.
Great comparison using the Herschel Walker trade. Ultimately it was a huge overpay, but that is likely what would be needed for LAA to move the best player in modern baseball. Trout in a Mets’ uniform would be pretty amazing though.
Did anyone else throw up a little in their mouth after reading that Familia is due to make $11 million this year? Talk about a colossal waste of money!
The Dodgers continue to think big despite a payroll that is in high CBT waters. LA may re-sign 3B Justin Turner but could veer toward Bryant for 2021. Either way, their CBT goes up.
2B Gavin Lux would be a nice return for the Cubs but it would also likely require them to take on a contract like LHP David Price. Why not? The Cubs need starting pitching almost as much as a second baseman and leadoff hitter. With Price and Lux perhaps they can get all three. Of course, with Bryant gone that would also leave a hole at 3B unless Tom Ricketts signs off on the Cubs adding….Turner!
I doubt they let go of Lux, unless they have another long term infielder coming up this season. They’re also probably losing Seager next season.
There’s absolutely no way bryant (on 1 year deal) who’s been declining for years would cost lux even with price who’s on a bargain contract with Red Sox eating half his deal. Have you not seen the deals done this offseason? It doesn’t cost top prospects to get top talent just look to arenado, darvish, snell packages who are all much better than bryant at current value.
Lol Bryant is not declining, he just had a bad shortened season.
Bryant has declined for ONE year (2020).. His 2019 was his 3rd best season of his career and 2017 was about equal to, or arguably better) than his MVP 2016.
His career arc is more a conversation that connected to his next deal. A trade is just about what he can do in 2021.. Who knows?
Nope stunner. See my full comment further down, but 2018 & 2019 he Averages 3.9 WAR vs 6.1 WAR 2015-2017
My bad Avg 2.8 WAR with high of 3.9
The dude has 4 great years, 1 good year and one bad year out of 6 total and he’s damaged goods until proven otherwise?
Bryant was better in 2019 than 2018. How has he “been declining for years??????”
Decline means he gets progressively worse every year which he hasn’t.
The Cubs would be dreaming to ever think LA would make that deal.
Agreed. No way the Dodgers even consider trading Lux for Bryant. You don’t get a top-5 overall prospect for a one-year rental who is coming off a horrible season. And I don’t think dumping Price with him moves the needle at all…particularly when the Dodgers are only paying a fraction of his salary and have money coming out of their ears.
The Cubs gave away Darvish to get rid of his contract, they are not taking David Price’s contract. Also the Dodgers are not trading 6 years of Lux for one season of Bryant for the exact same reason the Mets are not trading Davis.
Darvish brought back a amazing return. I don’t want to hear you Cubs fans raving about a few of these guys in 3 years.
The Cubs did not give away Darvish. They realized his short-season results weren’t sustainable and traded the remainder of his bloated contract for a reliable starter who can help them in 2021.
It’s amazing how much Zach Davies stock has soared in some people’s eyes due to one partial season in a fantastic pitcher’s park. Not sure why you doubt the sustainability of Darvish but are convinced Davies will continue to post numbers that are far superior than any other season of his career. Darvish gets to pitch in that park now, while Davies goes to Wrigley.
All of you armchair GM’s should chill. My suggestion is merely the parameters of a potential trade. There could be other working parts in play including players, prospects and cash being involved. For instance, if the Cubs were able to acquire Gavin Lux they would likely agree to part with highly versatile 2B/SS Nico Hoerner to offset the concerns over team control and position.
You’re the one throwing names out there about a trade that hasn’t happened… And we are the armchair GM’s?
Well said.
What I suggested was simple: A potential trade of Kris Bryant to the Dodgers, one of the few contenders who either currently need a 3B or could benefit from an upgrade the position, along with the Mets and the Braves or perhaps a team like the White Sox who have ample salary space to acquire him as a potential corner OF.
I threw out one name the Cubs would covet from the Dodgers in prospect Gavin Lux with their need for a 2B and leadoff hitter and suggested that such a deal would not be possible unless Chicago would also “take on a contract like LHP David Price”. I did not make a specific trade, only suggesting the basic frame work of a deal and a single name the Cubs might prioritize.
Clearly, Bryant’s name has been thrown about in rumors all offseason, sufficient enough to earn his own link on this site. We are now a week away from pitchers and catchers reporting to spring training and Bryant has yet another article written about him potentially going to a team in a trade. He may or may not be dealt before opening day. If a trade occurs it may not be to the Dodgers but chances are good it will happen with one of those other teams NL teams looking for help at 3B. If not in the coming days and weeks it is all but certain the rumors will continue up until the July 31st trade deadline.
Has everyone forgotten how recently the Dodgers traded for one year of Mookie Betts. took on half of 34-year old David Price’s remaining $32MM AAV contract for 3 years while also parting with a highly regarded young OF in Alex Verdugo?
It’s not at all inconceivable that LA could do the same with Kris Bryant despite his poor 2020 abbreviated season. Andrew Friedman is among the smartest front office executives in MLB. It all depends on how he evaluates Bryant not only as a fit in 2021 but also down the road as a potential extension candidate, just like Betts. Despite everyone’s concerns about Scott Boras as Bryant’s agent, there are other factors favoring the Dodgers. Geography is a key one that also wound up playing heavily in Trevor Bauer’s decision to sign with LA. Bryant is a native of Las Vegas and still calls that his home after being the best college player at the University of San Diego.
Clearly, Bryant currently fits a need at 3B.
Clearly, Bryant fits a lineup need as an accomplished if not prolific right-handed hitter.
Clearl, Bryant is younger and with a higher ceiling than 36-year FA Justin Turner.
Clearly, Friedman is not willing to meet Turner’s asking price of a 4-year deal and not likely even 3 years. Why wouldn’t Friedman gamble on 29-year old Bryant having a huge bounce-back season in his FA walk-year and potentially signing him to a contract extension before he even reaches free agency?
Clearly, Friedman gambled on paying 30-year old SP Bauer big bucks based on an abbreviated Cy Young Award season that came on the heels of an abysmal 2019 year in Cincinnati. It’s not as if Friedman wasn’t willing to gamble on an ace who struggled mightily in his most recent full season on the mound. Bauer wasn’t even a necessity on a Dodgers staff that was already deep in talent and considered among the very best in MLB. Bryant’s need on the Dodgers is much more apparent.
Clearly, massive difference in value and production between Mookie Betts and Kris Bryant.
Clearly, Betts was a highly desirable trade target and one of the top 5 players in the game, as well as a recent MVP of the league.
Clearly, Bryant is currently viewed as nothing but an albatross and these two players are not even remotely comparable at this point.
Far from being an albatross. And Betts might be the better player, but KB is no slouch, he’s a former MVP, ROY and 3x all star.
Clearly KCJ is a rational and logical thinker
Are you comparing Betts to Bryant? Bryant’s last two out of three seasons have been weak. Can make the excuses of small sample and injuries but doesn’t change the fact. Much lower chance of Bryant re-signing so have to think he’s a one year rental. Limited teams willing to trade for him right now. All these factors point to a much lower package compared to Betts. Dodgers will certainly look at Bryant as an alternative. But if this is a one year rental vs two years of Turner where you don’t need to give up any prospects you can see why the Dodgers may not be willing to give up too much for Bryant.
Lux is an outside of the box idea, but LAD needs some cheap guys to even out the massive current and future contracts they will be handing out. A solid young player like Lux is a huge overpay, though pairing him w. Price actually makes some sense…while I don’t see the Cubs taking all of his contract, it would at least make the Cubs front office consider it.
100% agree!
If a deal gets done, I expect it would be Bryant + a pitcher (Hendricks?) with the obvious recent comp being the Lindor/Carrasco trade. Young infield rental plus veteran #2-3 starter with multiple years remaining at slightly below-market rate.
In that scenario the Mets would probably want to move guys off the 40-man (Familia and/or Betances) while also sending back prospects, probably of slightly higher quality than in the Cleveland deal. Would hope that they can find a way to do it without involving JD.
They will likely need to involve JD Davis. It also makes sense for both sides to involve JD Davis.
As long as we’re saying Davis isn’t an MLB caliber 3rd baseman, because he isn’t…
The issue is only his range. He has a great arm, great hands and a great bat, They said the same thing about Daniel Murphy for years and Davis is a better defender, Jeff Kent had that “bad defense” tag too,
Agreed, Jeff Kent wasn’t a MLB caliber 3rd baseman. He made himself into decent 2nd baseman, until later in his career with the Dodgers when his defense was pretty substandard.
Interestingly, JD Davis has only played 1 full season (2019) and 262 total career games at MLB level, but has already had a far worst defensive season than Daniel Murphy’s 12 seasons.
Davis’ -2.4 dWAR (LF: 79 games, 3B: 31 games) surpassed Murphy’s worst defensive season (2018): -1.6 (split between WSH & CHC): mostly at 2B.
If JD could turn into Kent…the Mets would be ecstatic. It’s actually a nice comparison. Kent could rake and throughout his career.
A decent defender.
Hendricks is one of the most valuable assets in baseball. On a team friendly contract with 3 or 4 (probably 4) years of control, and very much an ace rather than a 2/3.. If you’re trading for him and Bryant, Hendricks is Lindor and Bryant is Carrasco. And you’re giving up Dom Smith, JD Davis, and a top 5 prospect or two as well.
Ok, I’ll admit calling him a 2-3 was a bit harsh. Low-end ace (which I’ll define as 20th-30th best pitcher over the next 2-3 years) is more accurate.
But his contract is by no means one of the most valuable assets in the game. He was an HM on FanGraphs list of the Top 50, for example. Definitely has some surplus value and the type of skills that should hold up for years but we’re not talking about an Albies deal or anything.
Hendricks is not an ace. He’s more of no.3 starter on a really good team or a low end no.2. If Hendricks is your ace your team is going suck.
Hendricks could be an ace for many teams… He is a low end ace/#2.
Aces throw 95mph and strike out upwards of 200-250Ks a year. Hendricks strikes out 160-175Ks and pitches to contact with a 88-90mph fastball. He’s not an ace on any good team. He doesn’t really work that late into games never thrown 200 innings more than once. He’s a no.2 starter at best but more of a high end no.3 like he was when the Cubs won the chip. Still a fine pitcher though.
So… Greg Maddux was not an ace?
Anyway, I’ll agree that he’s a #2, but I wouldn’t say he’s a #3.
While ERA is not the end-all-be-all, you might want to look at Hendricks’ ERA over the last 5 years.
For what it’s worth, Hendricks is 4th in career ERA amongst active pitchers all time. 10 points better than Scherzer for his career.
Among pitchers w 7 years experience or more
Hendricks not Greg Maddux though.
I’m fully aware of Hendricks ERA the last 5 years. But there’s more to being an ace than just ERA. There’s a certain level of dominance involved. Aces don’t pitch to contact bro. He’s not Degrom, Scherzer, Cole, Verlander, Bieber,Buehler or Kershaw.
That means nothing because you couldn’t tell me that Hendricks is better than Scherzer in any case. You’re reaching bro.
I suppose that depends on how you define an ace. I would think run prevention would be the way, once you have a large enough sample size to weed out luck, which we do. And while strikeouts can be an indicator of talent and future performance, indicators are unnecessary in evaluating past performance, especially when there a huge sample size like this. I’m not willing to tell you Hendricks is better than Scherzer only based upon not seeing the defense and ballpark pitched-in comparisons for their careers, because Scherzer’s close enough in career ERA. The eye test here doesn’t matter when we have past results as large as we do. If over the last x period of time, the defense and ballpark numbers are equal, the pitcher with the better run prevention is better.
Side note: Scherzer’s ERA is hurt a little by early career numbers. During just the 5-7 years, Scherzer’s ERA may still be better, I haven’t done the math.
I understand your logic. Scherzer is better.
Game 7…how many clubs choose Hendricks over Scherzer….1-2, if that. Scherzer is a ridiculously competitive guy who thrives under pressure and should age better than a lot of pitchers. I loathe that he plays for the Nats, but it’s unfair to compare Hendrick’s to him.
I just can’t see the cubs trading Hendricks. The cubs simply don’t have the pitching depth.
It always depends on the return. They’ve tanked before to load up for a successful WS run. Trading away anyone that people have interest in might jump start that and make the next rebuild shorter. Nobody is truly untouchable.
Cubs are trying to win the central. They won’t be trading a needed pitcher unless they are blown away with a offer. If Bryant is traded it means they have little faith in him being great and worthy of a qualifying offer.
I don’t get people thinking the Cardinals are heavy favorites to win that division. Even if Arenado is healthy, they have a lot of question marks.
The Cubs are not true contenders just because they make the playoffs. If Cubs fans want to dream of a Cinderella run through the playoffs, fine, but after trading off Darvish for lottery tickets, They’ve lost 3 of their 5 starters from an already underwhelming rotation, don’t have much in their farm system, and are crying poor so they won’t add more than journeymen like Pederson. With or without Hendricks, that’s not a championship roster.
U do realize Hendricks is voted most underrated pitcher in baseball every year. The Cubs r not dumb enough to trade the guy with the 4th best Era in all of baseball with the most team friendly contract for anyone. Mets r not getting Hendricks from the Cubs that I can assure you
Exactly is just delusional cards and maybe a crew fan like usual. Hendricks ain’t going anywhere we’re not full rebuilding. We’re gonna win the division this year, watch. But as for kb yea get the best deal possible for him and move on. Javy and Rizzo r the ones getting extensions.
Lol and you have the gall to call other fans delusional after that statement??
There is zero evidence that the Cubs are rebuilding. They got good value in return for Darvish. He’s still a good pitcher, but people are overreacting to his short-season stats. Trading him might turn out to be a smart move, especially when they got a reliable starter in return.
Agreed Cey Hey
It’s a weak central. The big 3 hitters should all do better. Davies should be solid, if not they can simply aquire a replacement via trade, or if team is bad sell off. That Darvish return is A+++ I make that trade no matter what my intentions are.
If the Cubs trade Bryant & Hendricks as a package, they’re gonna ask for both Davis & Alvarex plus a lil extrs. Wether the Mets bite… that’s a different story.
CeyHey
Good value in return for Darvish? Looks like you have a different take on the trade than most others, including most of the well known writers/experts. Guess we’ll find out in 5 years if/when those 16-17 year olds are near the majors.
Well… Those same experts crucified the Cubs for passing on Mark Appel twice. So… like you said, we’ll see.
When did they pass on Appel? He was selected #1 overall by the Astros, Cubs got Bryant that year.
They passed on him once when the Pirates drafted him. Then they never reached an agreement and Appel went back to the draft and picked first overall by the Astros, the Cubs followed with Kris Bryant and the Rockies got Jon Gray.
lol at thinking Hendricks has the most team-friendly contract. Most team-friendly on the Cubs, ok, but Albies and Acuna blow his deal out of the water. Soto and Bieber are still on their rookie deals. There are plenty more, too.
Cubs gotta be wanting to restock their system. Pay all of Bryant’s salary and take on bet and fam. Then ask for Mauricio and Allan
Why not just throw in Baty while we’re at it.
Cubs could take on as much money as they want. They aren’t getting Allen or Alvarez for 1 year of Bryant.
Right. They’d pay some 37 million to acquire those players.
“What? Tell’m more trash or NO SALE!” -Jed Hoyer
Betts cost two top 100 prospects. You really think Bryant will as well? I won’t be surprised if Bryant goes for a good but not too 100 prospect and a couple very young, good upside prospects.
Verdugo was more than a top 100 prospect. He was having an excellent rookie season, which is why Friedman hung onto him when fans were insisting he be traded for injury-plagued Kluber. He wasn’t going to sell low on a player he had faith in. That faith paid off as Verdugo played well enough at the MLB level to become the headliner for Betts. I hated seeing him go as he was my favorite player on the team, but you gotta give to get.
Yes, good point, Cey Hey, you are right. The package for Betts was better than two top 100 prospects. That Rookie season does lift Verdugo above just any top 100 prospects. Guess I should switch my example to Machado I guess. He didn’t cost two top 100 guys and was better than Bryant looks now. =)
Machado deal was also for two months. Bryant is a full year, and with that full year comes a QO/comp pick. Bryant should absolutely cost more in February than Machado did in July.
Machado was younger, played SS too, and didn’t hit .209 when he was traded.
Why does it matter if he’s younger when the deal is just for this year??
The Rangers should get involved. Take those over priced relievers off the Mets hands. Throw in some young cheap relieves to acquire some prospects
No, not happening. Alderson will not trade Davis who has been just as productive as Bryant, cheaper and more years of control. This would be a loss for the Mets and a win for the Cubs.
@metsfan104 he would trade Davis in a heartbeat. Defense is an issue with the Mets. Alonso is a DH. Smith cannot play outfield. Nimmo cannot play center. Davis is not a good third basemen. Bryant fixes a lot of problems for a win-now team, and Davis would almost certainly be part of that trade package.
Bryant only solves one problem out of the 4 you listed. He’s literally just a more expensive version of Davis but a better glove.
JD is unplayable at 3rd base. Right now they have well below average fielders at all three outfield positions, first base, and third base. And I don’t love McNeil at second either. Basically Lindor is their only plus defender. They need to fix that or it will cost them dearly.
If Davis is unplayable at 3B, then the Cubs have no use for him… Their OF is set and GG all star Anthony Rizzo at 1B… Unless the Cubs send them Ian Happ, but at this point, the return would have to be crazy.
The only reason would be the DH coming next year, and the Mets having several DH types already so need for another one.
Davis can play second right? Bote and Nico can play 3rd its bote #1 spot. Plus hopefully we’re adding another inf/uty piece
Davis and 2nd base are not a thing.
I wouldn’t worry if you don’t love McNeil at second. Everyone else does.
He’s absolutely not unplayable
Conforto is not below average and Alonso is average. Lindor isn’t plus, he’s elite.
Lindor improves Davis’ defense since his only problem is range.
Nik,
As we’ve recently learned the hard way, just because you keep repeating it (the range thing) doesn’t make it true.
At this point the Cubs might as well keep Bryant. They missed their chance at getting any real value for him years ago. Give him a QO at the end of the season and move on
I think this just shows that Alderson missed the boat since taking over. If they got Realmuto, the best catcher in baseball, and Springer the second best CF in baseball, they wouldn’t need to upgrade right now. If Lindor decides to go to free agency they are screwed. Everyone knows Bryant isn’t going to sign with Mets, and neither is Turner. As GM’s go, AA and Rizzo are running circles aroung Alderson!
Why would they be screwed if lindor goes to free agency? Could they not simply sign him then or another of the half dozen free agents?
You know realmuto is developing hip problems,is over 30 and not that great? Whats wrong with mccann?
If Realmuto is, “not that great”, then McCann is bad, right?
@Tom1968 I like how hip discomfort after multiple double headers in a shortened season gets exgarrated into developing hip problems. I also like how you somehow think he isn’t that great. Ridiculous. I do agree that he’s 30. So there’s risk there.
People need to stop killing Sandy about Realmuto. There is absolutely nothing indicating that the Mets ever had a chance of landing JT. In fact, some reports stated he had no desire to play in NYC. I don’t know how true those reports are either, but sometimes it’s not the GM’s fault for not landing someone.
Rizzo has the the worst farm system in baseball and will be battling the Marlins for last place in 2021. He’s not running any circles.
We shall see about the Braves.
Nats farm ain’t great but nowhere near worst in baseball
Keith Law released his farm system rankings this week. Nats are dead last.
Realmuto didn’t want to play in NYC, so the Mets overpaid for McCann. Realmuto was never really a consideration at the salary he was originally requesting.
I agree with this. He would’ve gotten a pretty significant return after 2019, even though it wasn’t his best year. Now, I don’t see a team giving up a ton for him unless he’s part of a package or the Cubs take back bad contracts. With them giving away Darvish, though, I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for them to announce they’re keeping Bryant.
Yeah Bone Spurs. Make a run at it this year and put out qualifying offers on the Big Three and collect the draft picks if possible.
That might be, especially if Bryant is hitting and the Cubs are competing. You can’t just trade Bryant I’d that’s the case. If he’s hitting and the Cubs are under .500, you would probably get a better return than a comp pick.
Comp picks are not very valuable any more. It’s worse than a regular 2nd round pick which already only has 10% success rate.
I agree. Bryant is a Cub and I’d love to see him to stay with them. I hate the fact teams don’t have signature players anymore.
Some of that is on the players, who think of themselves as Players of Fortune. Top bidder gets their services. Top agents like Boreass taking a large % of their contract also has something to do with it as well. If you want to be a Franchise player, you’re gonna have to trade top-dollar for security. And some years… Winning. Look how many years Alex Gordon was on the Royals, ’til he won a pennant in 14 and a ring in 15. How many of those years was KC awful. Then look at a journeyman like Fernando Rodney, who bounced around for years ’til he won a ring in DC in 19, in his 40s. Depends on the player. Some want security, some want cash, some want to win, some want it all.
As a Philly guy I’d love nothing more than to see the Mets make a bad move this off-season, but I just don’t get the fascination with KB. As constructed now the Mets are neck and neck with Atl. And to be real, neither one of them are gonna take LA to 7 games like the Braves did last year.
I’d like to believe crazier things can happen. Dodgers can fold (though unlikely). It’s important that the Mets get their defense to improve with Nimmo in center, potentially Smith in LF and Davis at 3rd. We’re a few moves away from taking on the Braves and getting Bryant would be a huge step in the right direction. Plus we can’t sleep on the Nationals and MAYBE the Phillies.
I don’t think Bryant changes anything, even if his bat is healthy. We need pitching more than anything.
Also, Bryant is not Brooks Robinson.
KB doesn’t seem like that bad of move. Just gotta take on salary. Prospect wise it won’t cost a ton. He had a bad 2 months in a turbulent season. His upside is a all star mvp.
This is baseball, everything can happen once you get to the playoffs, didn’t Washington have to beat the Dodgers?
People forget that before last year’s two month pretend baseball season, the Dodgers lost every year in the playoffs, They had some great teams go home.
Let’s see the paper champions do it for real this year,
Any team with three outstanding starting pitchers can win a five game series. Dodgers had the better team in my opinion but the Nationals were the most dangerous team for the Dodgers on a five game series as their top 3 SPs were better.
No mention of Davis’ terrible defense?
He’s destined for dh.
Bryant is too talented not to rebound, especially in his walk year. They can probably squeeze a better return at the deadline if they can’t get off to a decent start in a down division.
I’d almost bank on Bryant have a huge year.
Mets should get Jose Ramirez instead
That’d be huge, but so would the return. Cleveland claims they’re not interested, which really means, “We’ll listen if you’re willing to overpay.” I’ll admit I’m not all that familiar with the Mets’ farm, so what kind of deal would you propose could possibly get that done?
NY fans (of both persuasions) seem to have this vision of the MLB trade market as sort of like a vending machine where they can get whatever they want. I don’t think the Mets could put together a prospect package to get Ramirez if they made their whole system available. In any case they’d be instantly outbid several times over if he were put on the market.
They think the other 28 teams are sitting around thinking up ways to help the Mets and Yankees.
@mlbnyyfan. I would love to see the Braves go after him but they won’t and probably for the same reason the Mets won’t.
An elite, low cost 3B with three years of control would take a truly ugly package to land, especially because the Indians have already said they don’t want to trade Ramirez. The Braves, and in the case of your suggestion, the Mets, would have to provide all the motivation.
Outside of Lindor (which JUST happened) and whomeverethef is catching,, the Mets are homegrown at every position on the diamond.
That doesn’t really fit the narrative of leeching off other teams.
Didn’t Davis (and his substandard defense) come from Houston? And we can’t forget Cano (when he returns in 2022) and all of the shenanigans he brings to the clubhouse.
The core is certainly homegrown, and that’s a huge credit to the Mets, but Lindor, Davis and McCann are not. So not quite every position on the diamond. M
Don’t knock NY fans. They like both types of music- Country and Western
So he ends up withe the Nats, and Rizz0 resigns him!
Iml12
Bryant is not a bad player, but his best days look to be behind him. He’s been declining and/or injured three years in a row. He’s on the wrong side 30 and could certainly pop for something like 5.5 WAR, but it’s nothing to bank on or pay for in FA.
Good guy who you hope plays 6-7 more years of decent ball. He reminds me of exactly the type of guy that benefited from PED – knows the game, post 30 and slowing down plus starting to miss significant time with injuries.
KB is 28… You know that, right? He’s not declining, he was just injured last year and in 2018.
He was injured in 18 and bounced back nicely in 19. I don’t put much stock in 2020. I can see a very productive 2021
No, he hasn’t been declining three years in a row. 2018 was injury riddled and not great, but his 2019 was his 3rd best season of his career.
KB return goes down at the deadline unless he is absolutely mashing bc you can’t make a qualifying offer. Best for Cubs to trade him now otherwise:
If KB sucks or gets hurt then they can’t trade him at the deadline. Maybe not even offer a QO if he’s really bad
Why would you trade for a guy who is going to go on the market next year? He’s not signing an extension and he’s expensive.
Bryant is a perfect deadline trade to a contender!
Bryant has more value now than at the deadline. Any team acquiring him before the season can give him a QO if he rebounds and get a draft pick back. Plus they get a full season of his services instead of just a half year.
ANY team would be crazy to off him a QO. He would take it.
Lol no, unless he hits .150 this season, there’s no way KB takes a QO. That’s crazy talk, especially with Boras as his agent.
Conversely, would the Cubs or any other taker in a trade before opening day offer a QO to Bryant if he repeated his poor 2020 numbers over a full 162-game season in 2021?
Nope, he wouldn’t get that QO.
@Aaron, of course not, but how likely is it that a guy with a career 134 OPS+ (who’d never before gotten below 121) is going to continue with a 73? Possible, but seems a bit far-fetched.
Nobody is a bigger Kris Bryant fan than me. I had him in the HOF even before his MLB debut and will stick with that prediction. I fully expect Bryant to have a monster 2021 season in his walk year. Which team that happens with is the $19.5MM question right now.
As a Cubs fan, I hope he stays on the northside of Chicago. As a White Sox fan, I hope he gets traded to or signs as a free agent and plays on the southside of town in 2021 or beyond. As a Chicago baseball fan I want him here regardless.
They traded for Lindor and last I saw he hasn’t signed an extension yet lol
This is a good point. If the Mets traded for KB, could they extend both him and Lindor? Are we looking, as an example, at two $250+ million dollar contracts? All teams have limits. Moreover, the Mets have younger players they’d need to dish out on as well.
Unless he returns to all star form, Kris Bryant will be lucky to see a $100M contract when he hits free agency. Lindor on the other hand will be looking at $300M+
If Lindor has a bad season, he won’t see 300 M either.
Bryant is only one season removed from being in All-Star form, it’s not even close to being outside the realm of possibility to see him return to it.
Because he’s good (or has been good in the recent past)? I mean, the Mets are trying to win aren’t they?
Spot on!
The only way I make this trade if I’m the cubs is if includes Davis. Then hope for the DH.
No way the Mets do that unless the Cubs are willing to pay at least part of Bryant’s salary, take on Betances and/or Familia, or include other pieces. JD Davis with his extra and team-friendly control is worth more than one year of Bryant.
I could see cubs taking Bestances along with Davis, but not Familia.
J.D. Davis has about the same trade value as Miguel Andujar. Both are 3rd baseman with seemingly potent bats who cannot field to save their lives. When a team that already HAS Davis tries to trade FOR Bryant, doesn’t that mean that they value Bryant ABOVE Davis? Otherwise they would just play Davis, wouldn’t they?
Mets fan thought process: This guy and this guy stink. Let’s trade them to (some team) for an all-star.
Davis has much more trade value than Andujar. Andujar can’t field at all (JD can be passable at times) and Andujar hasn’t hit in 2 years. JD is a plus hitter.
Go look up Davis on Baseball Reference. He’s a much better bat than you realize.
Davis is a butcher at third which lowers his value then adding a horrible contract, I think it’s more than fair. Davis has a career .4 WAR
Trading Familia and Betances will be a hard sell. They are like selling rotten fish. LOL
I can see the Cubs taking on one of them to get a better return.
Familia has had recent issues with command, but can still miss bats. His sinker still nasty af when he’s on.
Betances is toast though. Absolutely finished.
Go read Twitter, Mets fans saying they’re getting Bryant and Hendricks and not giving up any top prospects or anything of value.
Same as Yankees fans propose Sanchez and Andujar for other teams’ top trade chips. Every fan base has homers who do this.
“As I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn’t have to give up that much.”
This again? It’s not happening…
The Mets currently don’t have a 3B. JD Davis & Jeff McNeil can’t play well there. LF & CF is defensively challenged as well as Smith and Nimmo are playing out of position. The Mets missed the boats on Springer for CF, Arenado for 3B as well as Realmuto for C and of course Trevor Bauer.
Remember when ppl complained about springer cheating? Arenado isnt so hot outside coors field,bauer isnt so good,hes only 10 over 500..mets got mccann,…mcneil plays 2nd, resign frazier if he wants to come back, hes still out there on the market. Cheap signing.
Third time is the charm for ToddFather LOL? No that ship has been dry docked at last with the salt and pepper shaker bit.
Bryant needs to go to benefit both sides. It’s clear that this divorce has been in the making for the past 2 years or so. Both sides need to move on. I believe Bryant will become a new man once a trade is made. Or next off season when he becomes a free agent and is signed by another organization. Not saying he will be the MVP/star player he was early in his Cubs career. But hopefully, he will be in a more stable place mentally and that will help his career moving forward.
Funny how the two stories — Arenado and Bryant — are cast so differently and yet are really the same story. Bet the Cubs get even less for Bryant than the Rox got for Arenado.
Seamaholic – count on it. Add in that Bryant could continue to decline this year and be very disappointed in FA. Like so colossally screwed over by Boras that he doesn’t get offered a contract till after the QO expires
“Continue” to decline? Did I miss any trends? The guy hit 31 HR in 2019, then had injuries in 2020 and came back strong at the end of the season. He’s not even 30… Where is he declining?
And it would make sense for the Cubs to get less for KB since he’s a one-year rental and not a GG 3B.
Capri- yes continue to decline
2015 – 2017. Avg 6.1 WAR
2018 & 2019 Avg 2.8 WAR
2020 O.2 WAR (34 / 60 games)
Huge difference 2018 AND 2019. Then an injured season and sub-replacement value
That’s a good sample size with the BEST season only equaling 60% of the prior 3 year average
Well, you’re skweing things to prove a point… He was slowed by injuries in 2018 and 2020… Other than that, he had a .900 OPS in 2019, 2017 and 2016… In his rookie year he had an OPS of .858.
And that 2018 season that he was slowed by injuries (and had to alter his swing to deal with a nagging shoulder injury), his OPS was still .834.
So, no, there’s really no indication that he’s declining, only that he was slowed by injuries in 2 different seasons.
One of the reasons for declining is the prevalence of injuries. Ignoring 2 of 3 seasons with injuries isn’t a legitimate or rational view of things. Especially with a guy on the wrong side of 30. Doesn’t make him a bad guy, but it does represent a guy exiting his prime. Used to be able to get a boost from Mother’s Little Helper, but those days are over ( looking at u Cano as you flush a chance at HOF)
They haven’t been career threatening injuries… Just nagging injuries that’s he’s had to play through.
As a Mets fan I don’t want to give up Davis. I know he’s terrible on defense, but we already traded 2 infielders in Gimenez and Rosario and may lose Lindor after this year. I just don’t think the Mets have the depth to give up another one
They have money and can replace any depth they lose. The Cubs probably have about as much desire to play Davis at 3b as Mets fans do, so I wouldn’t worry too much about losing him. Don’t forget you have cano coming back next year!
Ha! Nice
Unless they are including Hendricks, I don’t see why the Mets would need/want Bryant over what they have.
Yeah just a former all star mvp who can actually play 3b and even some outfield. No reason to be interested in that.
Bryant isn’t a Gold Glove or anything. Davis doesn’t have an MVP ceiling, but he absolutely has an All Star ceiling and he’s dirty cheap for the next few years. Bryant is a luxury item that doesn’t fill a need, Why give up players and 20 million for a one-season lottery ticket?
Well if you would rather take your chances against the padres in the wild card game then fine, keep Davis. If available for the right price I would certainly be interested in Bryant. Players don’t play 162 anymore and pinch hitters are still needed. Can never have enough talent.
JD Davis isn’t THAT good. Plus you can trade him for a pitcher, albeit likely not one that’s better than what’s on the FA market.
Davis since getting more regular playing time with the Mets, which covers 2019 & 2020 seasons.
.288 /.370 /.483 /.853 129 OPS+
Davis v. Bryant for 2019 & 2020
Bryant 2019: .282 /.382 /.521 / .903 / 132 OPS+
Davis 2019: .307 / .369 / .527 / .895 /137 OPS+
Bryant 2020: .206 / .293 / .351 / .644 73 OPS+
Davis 2020: .247 / .371 / .389 / .761 / 112 OPS+
Davis: $2.1m w. 4yrs of control
Bryant: $19.5m w. 1yr of control
Bryant costs $17m+ more for similar production. Yes Davis has a problem w. range, but Lindor can help a bit and oh yeah…he has 4 years of control and he will likely *still* cost less money over 4 years than just 1 year of Bryant.
Davis is a .4 War for his entire career. Bryant’s putrid 2020 produced that in 34 games. He’s a dh and not in the same ballpark as KB.
I wouldn’t mind seeing the White Sox make a play for Kris Bryant as a core corner outfielder. He’s the type of player and clubhouse presence that the front office and coaching staff would love to have as this team looks poised to become a perennial championship contender. The White Sox already have one ROY and MVP on their roster in Jose Abreu. They could add a second in Bryant who also has ample postseason experience along with a World Series ring.
It’s not at all likely that the Cubs would consider dealing Bryant to their crosstown rivals. I’d still kick the tires on him if I were Rick Hahn. Bryant is still just 29 and a pending free agent following the upcoming season. The White Sox should consider him strongly next offseason.
I doubt the Sox take on the contract and I highly doubt the cubs deal Bryant to the white Sox unless it’s a massive overpay.
I believe Jerry Reinsdorf would sign off on the $19.5M owed Kris Bryant in 2021 if Rick Hahn was somehow able to convince Jed Hoyer and more importantly his boss Tom Ricketts to OK a deal with their city rivals. The last trade that went down between the two didn’t work out too well for the Cubs.
The White Sox wouldn’t be anywhere near the CBT threshold for 2021 even with Bryan’s contract. KB is the kind of player JR would love on the team and in the clubhouse. Bryant would be a huge local and national public relations coupe for the White Sox, something they missed out on two offseasons ago when they ultimately passed on FA Bryce Harper before whiffing on Manny Machado.
The White Sox currently have two ‘franchise faces’. One is Reinsdorf favorite Jose Abreu who extends the organization’s long standing affection and relationship with Cuban players. The newest one is Tim Anderson who is especially popular among the younger fan base with his attitude and swagger. Anderson is also among the few African-American superstars in MLB which is something that is of particular importance on Chicago’s southside. Why wouldn’t Reinsdorf be interested in adding a third ‘face’ giving the White Sox a clean sweep with a White, Brown and Black one on their team. The White Sox could truly become America’s team going forward when this country could use more unification. 🙂
Dumbest post ever. Please delete your account.
Aaron- I don’t think MLB teams market based on identity poli tics.
The White Sox do an excellent job of targeting specific ethnic markets in Chicago neighborhoods. You can drive through numerous areas of Chicago and see White Sox billboard promotions in Spanish that target Latino communities.
MLB has not done enough to promote their sport to minorities, particularly in black communities. The White Sox have been an exception and at the forefront in promoting baseball to it’s surrounding minority neighborhoods with programs like ACE: mlb.com/whitesox/charities/youth-baseball/amateur-…
The White Sox have also been among the most progressive teams with their history of hiring minorities and women in their organization. How many teams had a black GM before Kenny Williams, who has been a member of their front office since being named special assistant to Sox chairman Jerry Reinsdorf in 1994? Back in 1978, former Negro League and MLB player Larry Doby was named White Sox manager by Bill Veeck, becoming just the second black skipper in MLB, 4 years after the Indians hired Frank Robinson.
The White Sox didn’t just appoint them as their token minority hires either. They have continued with their diverse hirings ever since which included Jerry Manuel (1998-2003) and Ozzie Guillen (2004-2011) as long standing managers. After the failed Robin Ventura (2012-2016) experiment, the White Sox returned to their minority hiring trend and appointed his Mexican-American bench coach Rick Renteria to be the next manager to oversee their rebuild. At the time of Renteria’s hiring in October of 2013, he was the only Latino manager in MLB.
@revolver
Perhaps you should read on and then consider deleting your own account.
Interesting Aaron. I like your thinking on Bryant. I like Bryant and would love to have him this year. Do you think a sign and trade is possible?
As I’ve already written, a trade with the Cubs is less likely than the White Sox pursuing Bryant in free agency next offseason. But I am an eternal optimist who also predicted a Cubs-White Sox trade back in 2016/2017 when the Cubs were riding high in the wake of their championship and the White Sox had just decided to rebuild. I took all kinds of heat from fans on both sides of town who insisted that would never happen. At this point in time a trade between the two might be less likely because of their last deal but the optimist in me says, “never say never”. 🙂
Aaron is the primest example of Lefty vs. Liberals. Liberals, the type that got Jackie Robinson on the Dodgers because he was a helluva player. He earned his spot because of his bat, not his color. And then there’s Lefties like Aaron, where they are obsessed with color to a point that it’s all they (apparently) think about, even to the detriment of an organization, and is the polar opposite of what Dr. King was talking about.
Btw, I agree KB would be good for the Sox. Because he makes sense as a ballplayer. Not because he’s white. He’d plug in nicely in that lineup.
Clearly you don’t know squat about my personal or political beliefs. Those who do know me would suggest you are FOS.
Your take on ‘Lefty’ versus “Liberals’ is also ludicrous’ Using the great Jackie Robinson in your example is asinine, aside from (perhaps) portraying you as neither.
Btw: If anybody here is dying to get a better read on me feel free to check my twitter or facebook comments. I don’t hide behind numerous monikers. I use my real name with all social media. I prefer not to mix politics and other interests on this or other baseball sites but am wide open with my various interests on those broad media outlets.
Just by using my real name might suggest a few things about me aside from some young people thinking I’m stupid. So be it. I’m not afraid to express my opinions on virtually any topic and have never felt the need to worry about what most others feel never working for a big company who might be offended. The majority of my closest acquaintances would probably consider me to be among the most un-pc people on the planet but hardly one who is a far right or far left bigot. I love ‘poking the bear’ with people and will often do it just to get a reaction. Generally speaking, I never make fun of others without first making light of myself.
The Mets fans who think the cubs will trade Bryant and Hendricks for basically nothing are delirious. The cubs are not doing a full rebuild. Most of the core is still intact, and they are already talking about re-signing Baez and Rizzo.
Phillies need to get on Betances. 1 bad year doesn’t mean anything with a track record like his.
Curious how anyone sees anything positive in Betances. Why would anyone want him?
Got routinely lit up in no leverage situations. And high leverage situations.
All situations,
For a 5 year period with the Yankees, he was a very good pitcher. He only sucked when he came to the Mets.
If you think of a way to sign Betances from 5 years ago, lmk.
He just doesn’t have the stuff after multiple injuries. Did you actually see him pitch at all this year?
When did I say he was good? The question is, why would anyone want him. He had a very good 5 year stretch, and if healthy, someone might be interested.
His arm is shot
Just like the Phillies needed to get on Robertson, who had a longer track record of success than Betances. These relievers don’t last forever. Trying to build a reliable bullpen often comes down to a guessing game. Which guy will bounce back, which guy will continue being effective, which guy will improve instead of regress. It’s why a ton of relievers are moved at the trade deadline.
Ok. Here’s the latest from my confidential sources. Up to you to believe or not. It’s what I hear. Bryant and 3 million to the Mets. Cubs receive 21 year old 3rd base prospect
Mark Vientos and 20 year old RHP prospect Joshua Cornielly.
Ooof. I hope that’s not true. I’d rather see a year of Bryant and qualifying offer.
That’s about the return he would get. Although a better pitcher prospect or another top 30 guy to go with
Yep – that’s about a fair trade. Chicago left enough meat on the bone and played to Uncle Steve’s strong suit which is his wallet. He can afford to take a chance that Bryant continues to decline. In this context that’s 2-3 WAR.
KB should be thankful to land with a contender and get a big stage to audience on for his last longterm contract
Man, you are going to die on the declining production mountain. He was extremely good in 2019. He missed a ton of time with a shoulder injury in 2018. In another 100 games in 2020 I have no doubt he would of been a well above average mlb hitter. He’s in a contract year and completely healthy. I am guessing 3 War is probably his floor with tremendous upside.
Iml12
Ya caught me. This last quip about continuing to decline was gratuitous and I was baiting the Homer’s.
Shouldn’t have done it. Nope – not excusable at all. I’m claiming temporary viral imposed quarantine syndrome and excessive wine indulgences (the good stuff Staggs Leap and a sweet Barolo). Plus watching / reading 30 minutes of MSM today pushed me over the edge. I’ll do better once the season starts
“get a big stage to audience on” – Huh?
That’s a heck of a lot of reading into a guy’s psyche for just pointing out a terrible phrase in a sentence. My guess is that stuff about being self-conscious applies more to you than to him.
Well, some people are reporting that the Cubs are asking for LHP David Peterson.
Is Bryant really an upgrade defensively at 3b? His .950 fielding percentage at third and 74 errors might lead one to think otherwise.
He is an absolute upgrade at 3B over JD Davis.
KB grades as an average defensive 3B.
Braves absolutely can’t let this happen. Either we get involve and skyrocket that price or we go get KB ourselves. The market has clearly proven we shouldn’t have to give up a ton to grab him. I say go for it Braves! If only not to let the Mets get him! PUCK THE METS!
Bravefsn
Atlanta doesn’t have the stones to go head to head with Cohen in a battle of wallets. It’s also dumb for Atlanta to risk their last bit of payroll flexibility for a guy like KB who could just suck again this year like 2 of the last 3 years. Keep your powder dry for the break
I don’t think Kris Bryant is a good fit in either NYM or LAD. His defense isn’t good enough for their pitching.
Bryant to TEX for Rougned Odor might work. One more year of Bryant’s contract for Odor’s spread out for two years.
The cubs could have non tendered Bryant if they just wanted salary relief, that makes 0 sense.
Odor should be a minor league depth player
Odor is a better boxer than baseball player, that’s for sure.
LOL! If Kris Bryant’s defense isn’t good enough for the Dodgers or Mets pitching tell us all which (contending) teams would qualify?
And the answer would be for the Mets to play JD Davis at 3B and the Dodgers play nobody (since they haven’t signed Turner yet)?
How is that better defensively?
Bryant got beaned in early 2018, hasn’t played at the same level since.
Maybe that’s a big part of his decline
Kris Bryant had another major injury issue in 2018 after that April beaning. He made an ill-advised head first slide into 2B in May that jammed his left shoulder. He tried to play through it with a noticeable sap in his power. He compensated for the injury and aggravated his back along the way. He finally went on the DL in late June and was not the same player that season. He did rebound with a solid 2019 season before posting his awful numbers during last year’s abbreviated 2020 COVID-19 schedule. Bryant was hardly the only star or Cubs player to have issues in 2020. He had 3 other teammates in Javier Baez, Anthony Rizzo and Kyle Schwarber who were equally bad at the dish.
Aaron- that’s a decent description of the circumstances, but the conclusion is the issue.
2018 – your words ‘major injury issue’ to his shoulder. Lead to back problems. Injuries can affect future seasons. Won’t know till it happens in the future
2019 – bounce back with a good season of 3.9 WAR. That’s outstanding for most players, but happens to represent only 2/3 of his AVERAGE WAR from 2015-2017. So relatively he declined by 1/3 from an established baseline. Let’s see what happens in the future
2020 – he’s injured again and has a below replacement season of 0.2 WAR in 34 / 60 ganes.
So in each of the last three years he is substantially (2019) up to totally (2020) less effective than his 1st three years. Any one by itself could be considered an anomaly, but not all three. The most significant might be his 2019 season since he’s reportedly healthy yet 1/3 less effective than his three year average.
He will play his 1st FA season as a 30 year old. That’s the backend of baseball a player’s prime. It’s not a moral judgment of KB, but an observation over the 3 most recent seasons. You sound like a rational ‘thoughts and feelings’ person who intellectualizes things to be the way you want them to be rather than the way the facts and circumstances show them to be. Dude ain’t a consistent 6 WAR player anymore. That is a decline from what he was for his 1st 3 seasons. How steep is that decline? Probably on avg for the next 4 years you see 3.2 WAR which is very good, but represents a 50% decline from 1st 3 seasons.
So in essence, Francisco Lindor is declining too based on his 2020 season.
Lindor has already declined from his peak
Check out his 2019 all-star numbers
Earth to baseball fans: There’s no evidence that the Cubs are rebuilding and conducting a fire sale. Why do some people think otherwise?
The Cubs’ main problem in 2020 was players underperforming over a ridiculously short season. Baez and Bryant had a combined OPS of .616. Career-wise, they are at .777 and .889, respectively. Both are under age 30 and are prime bounce-back candidates. If that happens, they’ll have an excellent shot at winning their division.
True enough! However one potential major problem exists on the 2021 Cubs that wasn’t apparent last year. Pitching! Their staff carried the Cubs to the NL Central title in 2020 and has since lost Cy Young Award runner-up Yu Darvish along with a handful of other pitchers who have not been replaced with commensurate talent. If the Cubs had more top MLB ready arms in their farm system it would be less concerning but aside from a near ready southpaw Brailyn Marquez I’m not convinced that will happen anytime soon.
And Marquez is not a sure future starter, scouts are fairly split there between future late inning reliever and starter.
What a bold idea. The WS champs sign Bauer and you think they need an all star 3rd baseman. I hate your guts
Where did I say they need an all-star 3B? I’d be content with them letting Turner go and making do with Muncy, Rios, and Garrett Cooper at the infield corners until Hoese is ready in 2022. I don’t want them to trade Ruiz, Lux, May, or Gonsolin when they really don’t have to.
If Turner return is cold & gettin colder, I’m for trying to acquire Chapman from the A’s . Probably will cost Gonsolin, Hoese, & a couple others. Try to get the A’s to take Kelly too!
Like the idea of acquiring Garrett Cooper too if it doesn’t cost to much. Price, Cody Thomas,
Mitch White or Dennis Santana?
2021 Lineup
Betts R.F.
Seager S.S.
Chapman 3B
Muncy 1B
Bellinger C.F.
Smith C.
Pollock L.F.
Lux 2B
Pitcher or D.H.
Pretty formidable lineup!
Doubt the A’s will take Kelly. They have no money to pay an overpaid reliever. That’s not their MO. Also, if Chapman were acquired, which I highly doubt, no way he’d be batting #3. Probably #6. I’d bat Bellinger, Muncy and Smith ahead of him. That would be a nice lineup but obviously a steep price to get him.
I hate your guts? You need to go take your meds. If the Cubs are willing to trade bryant and rhe teams can agree on a few prospects that the Dodgers think have a low ceiling but the Cubs disagree then why not trade for him? They have plenty of money with their tv deal. Already over the lux. Makes perfect sense to me.
Bryant and $3M to Mets, J. D. Davis to the Braves, Ender Inciarte and Austin Riley to the Cubs. Cubs get salary relief, defensive OF, and possible future 3B. Braves get salary relief and good everyday 3B. Mets get the big name 1B they’ve been interested in?
Why do you think the Cubs are looking for salary relief when they have enough talent to win their division? And why would the Braves trade two guys who are more useful than Davis to get Davis, who is the least-useful player out of the five in your proposal? You must think other teams sit around trying to think of ways to make the Mets better.
@Cey Hey: You might want to check Riley’s stats. He may be less useful than you think. And I’m a Braves fan, not a Mets fan. The value to Atlanta is improving 3B productivity while freeing up millions to use at the trade deadline by giving away two sub-.230 hitters.
Braves just resigned Ozuna. They are all set at dh.
Cubs just signed Marisnick & Pederson and already have Ervin. They don’t need another OF. Unless the Braves wanna take J-Hey back.
@curveball: Inciarte’s salary is $11MM less than Bryant’s. Their motivation isn’t about strengthening their OF, it’s about freeing up funds to use now or at the deadline. Riley is there to give them a potential future 3B option, but it’s a flyer rather than a sure thing.
Add Davies to the deal to sweeten the pot.
My guess is, this is all a bunch of bs. Mets probably checked in with cubs about Bryant, nothing more.
Reds get JD Davis, Ronny Mauricio, mid-range prospect arm
Mets get Eugenio Saurez and Sonny Gray
This has the same issues as a lot of the Mets-Reds trade suggestions I’ve seen on here. The Reds aren’t looking to add arb year guys like Davis or Nimmo, and they aren’t moving one of Suarez/Gray/Castillo for 1 legitimate prospect, let alone two.
LoLz
He gone
Bryant and Hendricks to the Mets.
Cubs get Familia, Davis and prospects Robert Dominguez, Alex Ramirez, and J.T. Ginn.
Mets keep their top 5 prospects and place themselves in the driver’s seat to win the NL East (or at least guarantee a playoff spot with the Wild Card). Cubs continue the retool. But if they sign Paxton and possibly another arm, they could make this trade and STILL win the NL Central.
But the Cubs even with not making this trade are not getting past the Dodgers, Padres, Braves, and Mets. Why set your goal on winning the NL Central and getting knocked out in the first round? Make the trade Hoyer!
The cubs should throw in Happ and Baez to make it fair.
Nope. What I proposed is fair. Though, upon reflection, maybe …
Hendricks and Bryant to Mets
Familia, Davis, Ramirez, and Dominguez is enough. Scratch Ginn.
The Cubs can probably keep Baez if you are taking Ginn off the deal. Whew, I was worried they wouldn’t have a shortstop.
Too funny!!!
That might get you Bryant not anywhere near enough for Hendricks.
Well, it would be a disappointing return, in a sense. But nobody is willing to give up top-5 prospects currently. I don’t think any top-5 prospects in an organization have been traded this year.
Hendrick and Bryant to Mets.
Familia, Davis, Ramirez, Dominguez, and Ginn.
Cubs cut $20 million in payroll and move towards a quicker rebuild. Fangraphs, before my trade proposal of Hendricks, ranks the Cubs #28 in MLB in terms of projected starting pitching WAR for 2021.
1st, they are not going anywhere this year in that they are MAYBE the 5th best team in the NL, though probably closer to the 7th or 8th best team in NL. 2nd, I think they can still win the NL Central with a trade like this, but they are not getting past the Dodgers, Padres, Braves, or Mets. 3rd, their projected record for 2021 is 80-82 (forgot the reference), though they could be an 87-75 team. 4th, they have MAJOR systemic problems with their starting pitching. They have some decent options possibly on the horizon: Marquez (possibly bullpen), Franklin, Jensen, Abbot, obviously Alzolay, but they are not anywhere near where they need to be to seriously contend. They need to focus on rebuilding and restocking system talent with starting pitching prospects, and Dominguez and Ginn help with this.
San Diego did to get Snell. Hendricks is controlled through 2024 Cubs aren’t trading him unless they get a massive payoff. He’s not getting traded for that proposal not even close.
You’re right. Forgot about Patino. He is the only top-5 prospect to be dealt, great prospect!
Maybe it’s wishful thinking, but I wish the Cubs would push a little more forcefully towards a rebuild. Trade Bryant and Hendricks (those two probably need to be included together if a trade is going to happen with Bryant), then keep Happ, Baez, Contreras, Rizzo, and Heyward (3 yrs and Heyward’s contract is up) and then build up the pitching talent in the organization.
Trading Bryant and Hendricks would probably put them under .500 in 2021.
If you’re pushing toward a rebuild, you’re not keeping all of those guys. I wish they’d rebuild as well, but that means trading all of those guys, except maybe Happ if he’ll sign a cheaper extension. If not, he’s gone too.
Hahaha
I expect the Cubs to keep Bryant because nobody will part with anybody decent for him! I think he’s quit on the Cubs. He’s hurt all the time. I think his career could be all behind him.
He has millions of things to motivate him this year.
One very simple question: Would the return from the Mets be better than a 1st rd compensation pick? Because the Cubs would definitely offer Bryant a QO, and he would definitely turn it down. With that in mind, none of the trade returns I’m seeing make any sense for the Cubs.
If Bryant has a less than stellar 2021 the Cubs would have to be afraid to offer KB a QO for fear of him accepting it!
Jeurys Familia is bad for the clubhouse. Especially after 3 failed ped tests. Dellin Betanaces is a shell of himself. He hasn’t been the same since he left the Yankees for Queens.
Familia failed not 1 test..how about you?…thats jennry mejia that was busted 3 xs,, hopefully cano is next
Tom you are correct. Familia was the domestic abuser on Halloween with police called in.
Trading for a one year rental of a Boris client who is pissed off at the system, is injury prone, isn’t good for team chemistry nor likely to end well. Pass.
I think it’s funny that the Mets went from “if they sign Bauer they’ll have the best rotation in baseball” to “they need rotation help.
If KB is traded who is the everyday Third baseman for the Cubs? On their roster.
Bote, who is really not an every day player. That’s why if you trade Bryant now, you need to get someone who can at least play 3rd some of the time.
Would they sign m. Franco?
I would think they would consider it.
My first question is what does everyone consider JD Davis?
He broke in 2019 but had a rough season last year in a shortened 2020. What are Met fans expecting from him?
If the Mets want to make a deal for Bryant, it will take a third team and a lot of creativity.
One problem is that the Cubs seemingly can’t decide if they are sellers or buyers, builders or rebuilders. They done a lot of one and a little of the other.
The Cubs are also looking at two more key pieces reaching free agency next year. They are both gonna be expensive long term. Ownership has been crying poverty for two years. Whether that is true or not, it is the present stance. Ownership has to make a 180 degree turn, or they go into rebuild next year.
The Cubs could wait until the deadline, judge their position at that point, then either go for it or have a huge yard sale. But if they choose to go into rebuild now, there biggest position trade asset is Happ, who would hit free agency just as the Cubs were contenders again.
As for this point in time, the Mets don’t seem to have the prospect depth to make a major move. So they need to look for a team that is prospect rich as a third team.
The cubs are trying to rebuild while also trying to remain competitive within the division. They are probably more of a seller than a buyer. To me, the only surprising thing they have done was trading Darvish. The other guys that they let walk, were all underachievers the last couple of years, and the opportunity to clear some salary.
I see them accepting a much lighter package come trade deadline time
It’d still have to be worth more to them than comp pick – 1/2 a season of salary, or they’d have no reason to move him. Unless you expect KB to have a year so bad he’d accecpt the QO.
If KB is traded it makes sense before Spring Training.
Comments section is a real dumpster fire today.
Anyway, hear David Peterson to the Cubs for Bryant. Some minor additional pieces may be involved depending on if Cash is changing hands.
Saying that Davis has been as productive as Bryant or even comparing the 2 players in absurd. Bryant is a proven run producer who had a bad year.