TODAY: The automatic runner rule in extra innings might be modified rather than removed, USA Today’s Bob Nightengale writes. The rule could be altered so that the auto runner wouldn’t become part of the game until the 11th or 12th inning, with the first extra frame or two played until regular rules.
JULY 13: “I don’t think seven-inning doubleheaders are going to be part of our future going forward,” MLB Commissioner Rob Manfred told reporters (including ESPN.com’s Jeff Passan and MLB.com’s Mark Feinsand) today. Additionally, Manfred also suggested that the league could do away with the modified extra-innings rule that saw a runner automatically placed on second base at the start of each extra frame.
JULY 11: As part of the MLB – MLBPA agreements on health and safety protocols, doubleheaders have consisted of a pair of seven-inning games over the past two years. “Barring heavy resistance” from the Players Association, the league is planning to return to the traditional nine-inning affairs for twin bills starting in 2022, reports Bob Nightengale of USA Today.
It’s not clear how hard the MLBPA would need to push back against the return of nine-inning doubleheaders for the league to agree to keep the seven-inning format in place, nor is it even apparent there’s much interest on the players’ side in doing so. The seven-inning doubleheader format has been in place the last two seasons as a COVID-19 mitigation measure. With viral spread among teams contributing to the cancellation of games in bulk (especially last season, before the availability of vaccines), a few teams had to play a series of doubleheaders in relatively rapid succession. Fear of overworking players — particularly on the pitching staff — led the parties to knock two frames off games during doubleheaders. The hope and expectation is certainly that COVID-19 mitigation efforts won’t need to be as prevalent next year.
Concern about overexerting pitching staffs is also a reason for another COVID-inspired rules change of 2020-21: the automatic runner in extra innings. There’s been no indication of MLB’s plans with regards to that alteration beyond this season. (Notably, that rule was put into place throughout the minor leagues in 2018, well before the pandemic).
There’s little doubt the rule has indeed served its purpose of preventing marathon games. There hasn’t been a single MLB game to exceed thirteen innings in either of the past two seasons; there were 23 such games in 2019 alone. Nevertheless, the rule has predictably proven divisive among fans, many of whom perceive the placement of a free runner on second base to start extras as gimmicky.
Of course, any rules discussions will take place amidst broader negotiations between MLB and the MLPA on the state of the game. The collective bargaining agreement is scheduled to expire December 1, setting the stage for a new round of CBA talks in the coming months.
This makes no sense. The games are way too long anyway. This was one of the only things that was smart for baseball. Get rid of putting a runner on 2nd base in extra innings, or the pitcher having a 3 batter rule. How about 145 games instead of 162 games. Smh
I agree the runner on second needs to go. Otherwise, you sound like a basketball fan. If baseball games are too long for you, don’t watch.
Exactly. He must be a casual fan at best.
That guy isn’t a baseball fan. He’s a Yankee fan. Big difference.
Yup, why would anybody want something to end sooner if they are enjoying it?
When I’m enjoying something, I wish it would last longer (cue the inevitable jokes).
THAT WAS A GOOD ONE HARHARHARHAR
Get rid of both stupid rules. I think MLB sees a class action suit coming and is trying to head it off with respect to next year. Separate admission doubleheaders are causing a lot of backlash when fans have paid in advance expecting a nine inning game. Weather is uncontrollable, this is just BS.
“He’s a Yankee fan. Big difference.”
That would certainly apply to me. Screw everybody but us.
While it’s very easy to say “if you don’t like it don’t watch” there’s also no denying that baseball has had a harder time attracting new younger fans than the NBA. And dwindling fanbases are going to be a problem in 10-15 years if it continues. Hard to enjoy the game if the sport dies. Just ask fans in Montreal.
And while I prefer 9 inning games, I am open to shorter contests if it helps keep the sport alive, if game length is indeed a factor in attracting new fans.
I am open to pretty much anything as long as it doesn’t affect the fundamental play; the “runner on second” does. The shorter games don’t.
My friends who don’t like baseball don’t care how long it is. They liken the action to watching the grass grow. All sports will see their fan base dwindle over the next 20 years. Kids don’t watch sports anymore, they watch other people streaming themselves playing video games on YouTube. And most adults are glued to their phones. Those are humanity wide issues that are only becoming more pronounced. If the sports going to die with us anyway then let it be for us I say.
Good thing the players only earn 7/9ths of their salaries when they play those 7 inning games.
If baseball is likened to “watching grass grow”, what is Soccer? Yet soccer is seeing its fan base expand. Its not the pace of play. Its the marketing of the game. Lower ticket prices and get rid of the late starts during the playoffs. Let families afford to go more often, and let your showcase be seen by kids. Playoff games ending after 11 pm are not the way you get kids to watch.
Great post. I agree that soccer is like watching paint dry, but it is a very affordable and super family friendly venue to visit…
…except for the brawling and stuff.
@Ducky Buckin Dent- Lol! Excellent point… Hope your doing well? Hopefully the 2nd half will be more exciting then the lst half for us. Other fans then Yankee fans actually matter? News to me.
You know how it is, bro.
As Yankee fans we are starting off behind the eight ball with everyone else on the board. Price of success.
Doing fantastic. Hope you are too. Yanks need to plug some holes. But I still believe in our squad. I know we’ve at least one more pride filled run in us.
Go Yanks.
Screw everybody else.
Extra-inning games are rare, unique and special, and shortening them at the expense of the integrity of the sport will annoy fans of the game while attracting no new fans at all… A pitch clock and stopping batters from stepping out of the box will have bigger impact, and lose nothing at all The bulk of the increase in gametime is the extra time between half-innings to sell TV ads. Reducing the artifical break by a minute would say 17 minutes at least in all games, and be less costly than cutting back the schedule (which will never happen.).
Younger people think watching a baseball game is like watching the grass grow, but think watching someone else play a video game is more exciting. And this is the generation that thinks they are going to fix all the problems in the world. Yeah, right. Good luck with that.
How do you know he is a yankee fan??
@Sideline Redwine- I’m going to watch the games regardless. I was just saying a way to attract more fans to baseball. Football and Basketball are now more watched then baseball, sad to say.
Maybe if MLB players started flopping, crying, kneeling, and breaking the law more often, they would have more viewers…………..
Guys watch 3 or 4 3hr football games in a day when they have the chance. The problem isn’t necessarily the length of games.
They have been for a while. I think the gambling is a part of that.
Attract more fans? By making it worse so that people that don’t like it might tolerate it slightly? Ridiculous.
Or maybe if you had ownership who gave a damn about the fan instead adding a few more million dollars to their bank account, you would have more fans.
paule – There is nothing wrong with owners or anyone being rich. I can’t imagine the quality of baseball if all of the teams were owned by poor guys.
It’s not that they are rich…its that they don’t Give a F about fans as he alluded to
That and they can be really, really, really cheap. Even the Orioles make millions every year but rarely spend to keep or acquire talent, you cpuld pick from.about 20-25 other teams besides the birds and its same
Crying? You’re really gonna act like every called strike and ball isn’t argued about by which ever side got the short end of the stick? We’re gonna pretend that out of the big 4 sports in the US, that MLB managers don’t have the most televised and childish tantrums when something doesn’t go their way? Sorry that other sports existing ruffled your feathers but no need to block out facts to support your joke of an opinion
That’s true, and I think that’s one reason why they’ve tried hard in recent years to improve “pace of play” in the minors. Time clocks for pitchers, limiting mound visits, limiting use of replay, limiting pitching changes.
Always one person who needs to desperately shoe horn in a poor vaguely concealed political take into every conversation
well, trevor bauer is doing his part to help.
I actually disagree with with extra things.
I don’t think the games are too long, but it doesn’t make sense to have a Tigers vs Orioles game 93 go in to the 16th inning.
It puts players at risk and also can impact the next few games after due to bullpen usage. I’d honestly be fine if they ended in ties in regular season.
Oh, and let’s wrap players in bubble wrap too.
The managers should be able to agree to call the game when it serves no purpose, like the example you give.
Uncle – Every game serves a purpose, even a marathon game between two bottom dwellers.
The fans have already voted. All you have to do is look at how many fans are still in attendance after the 12th inning. That doesn’t make them casual fans.
You people are in denial if you don’t see that.
A hybrid rule makes sense. Let them go 11, then have the tie breaker.
How about we don’t and you quit watching after the 12 inning
If you want the game to stay relevant, you need to be amenable to change. Not a Yankee fan, thankfully, just a realist. It’s sinking in popularity.
Making up stupid rules isn’t gonna help popularity. When has anyone ever said, “I won’t watch baseball until they end extra inning games with a dumb gimmick?” Radical change is not needed. Don’t believe the hype.
In football, they have been changing the rules for years! Penalty changes, kick offs, extra points, overtime, every year there are changes.
That’s why I stopped watching football. Haven’t followed it for a few years.
3 batter minimum is great for baseball, less one trick ponies and forces managers to truly only switch pitchers when they need to.
Runner on 2nd should start after the 12th IMO. Let the 10th and 11th be played normally, if you want to prevent crazy long games, starting it at the 12th should do that.
The doubleheader’s going back to 9 is good, more legitimate games being played is always a good thing.
Disagree. Get rid of all the Covid-created rules.
Agreed bring baseball ball back and s thg OP with the gimmicks
Yeah, it does. Baseball games and the season have always been long. I want to watch 15-18 innings marathon games. Not some forced condensed version.
I LOVE extra inning games myself. As an Astros fan, we have top records in extra inning categories, regular season, post season, etc. The first World Series game the Astros played at home was extra innings. The last game against the Braves in the NLDS that year had Roger Clemens pitch in relief in one of the longest games ever played, ending in a walkoff by a bench guy without a ton of power.
Then again Bass struck out looking in ’86 against the Mets.
Why would you want to end that?
Obviously playoffs would still have extras
yankee-75 – you are what’s wrong with today’s “fan” base. 7 inning double headers and runner on 2 in extra innings is little league stuff and one step away from pitching to your own team. MLB is changing baseball in horrible ways to appease low attention span viewers like you. Making rules like this with the sole purpose of shortening games waters down the sport. I’m glad to see MLB taking this step and I hope they ditch the runner on 2nd rule soon.
Just a suggestion – You can watch a recap version of every game with your MLB package. They are much shorter and only cover the highlights. Sounds like that suits you better.
Baseball games aren’t too long. That’s such a lazy critique. Football is the same length and there’s about 22 mins of actual action in a 3+ hour game along with the 85 commercial breaks and that’s the #1 sport in the country.
The length or the rules or even “pace of play” aren’t the issue. Never have been.
It’s personalities… baseball needs to allow more marketable personalities to attract the non BB fan to get hooked.
Both rules are an abomination and they cheapen the integrity of the game. Maybe they were ideal based on unprecedented times, but those times shall soon pass. And seriously, are you really defending the spot runner and a 3 batter minimum? In terms of MLB rules, those about as bush league as it gets.
Agreed. Manfred is ruining baseball.
m.youtube.com/watch?v=zmx-gG-lrow
Do what the Yankees have done… They put Chapman in and make it a home run derby in the ninth. That’s exciting.
145 games will cost the teams too much revenue so that’s not happening.
Revenue. You’re taking money out of teams coffers
The games aren’t too long, nor is the season. If you feel they are, maybe you don’t enjoy baseball as much, I don’t know? You don’t have to watch every inning of every game, but stop trying to take from people who want to.
Is this really what’s important right now? Not saying it’s unimportant. But it’s draft day. Trade deadline is 3 weeks away nobody is making any moves of significance. And this is what Manfred is worried about?
He doesn’t have a team to run, what would he give an f about the trade deadline?
why does it matter? can he not discuss what the league is interested in doing with the game going forward because another event is going on?
At minimum he is taking attention away from the draft on a day where that should be a big focus. At minimum. It’s a pattern of tone deaf behavior.
As commissioner, you don’t wait until the last minute to plan rule changes. That would just be foolish.
Well, this is Manfred we’re talking about, I’ve come to expect foolish.
Ha.. you think this mundane bit of news is going to take focus from the Draft?
I’d like to see this along with no more runner on second in extras rule
Agreed. Let’s get back to normal baseball.
What is NORMAL? No more DH? No more inter-league play? No gloves for players?
What do they mean by “hopes” to return to 9 inning double headers?
Absolutely nothing is preventing those from happening right now other than their own ignorance.
Teams haven’t had an excess of cancelled games because of covid this year. There was no rationale to even continue with it in 2021 to begin with.
9 inning double headers is what the fans want, and also can help players bulk up counting #’s for arbitration. No brainer. Although I do understand why 7 innings for 2020-21.
I can’t believe no one has thought of this: runner on second starting in the 13th inning. Gives everyone a chance at batting again in extras, and all of home teams lineup a chance to win the game with one swing during innings 10-12. I love 11 inning Norma games, 16 innings with position players pitching it gets tacky sometimes with teams basically forfeiting.
I refuse to pay full price for a ticket to a seven inning “game”. If they continue this abomination, they should reduce the prices by 22%.
Yeah that’s a good point.
I agree 100%! And imagine the poor bastards who pay big $$$ for a 7-inning split DH and only get to watch one game.
Typical of Manfred’s MLB, they screw up a potential decent idea. Single admission doubleheader’s — with each game seven innings — is the way the minor leagues have done it for years. Two games (basically) for the price of one. Teams do not overwhelm their pitchers on a given day and fans get something unique. But now, they have become separate admission games. The old hidden price trick. Remember when a pound of coffee in a can was 16 ounces? Now it’s 11, 12 or 13. A good way to piss off the paying customers.
I’m still miffed when Haagen-Daz “pints” went from 16 to 14 ozs. years ago. I still buy it while it’s solely my buying power decision. If fans don’t want to attend a 7-inning game, don’t go. Perhaps the numbers are pushing the league to reversion.
Folks have thought of it, and recommended it. Regardless, I agree. Thirteenth makes sense.
Thank goodness. Next step: get rid of the little league rule about having a runner on second.
Absolutely. It’s ridiculous. And why is a runner who just made an out put on second anyway? It should be the next batter up getting the free pass to second.
I do like the 7-inning doubleheaders though. It should be a twofer for fans though.
It took awhile but I’m a solid fan of the runner on second rule. I’ve always felt that the most interesting thing of long contests (13+ innings) was the box score. The gameplay itself can get listless and “tacky”. The resultant effect on pitchers availability in following games is also undesirable. I cannot imagine that much revenue is being generated at 1 am with 500 people in the stands and perhaps not much more watching on tv.
It appears to be a win for all stakeholders. You can make a good argument for not employing the rule until the 11-13 innings but I’m fine with the 10th.
I can’t believe it’s even an issue that the Players Association would challenge.
The game was designed to be played 9 innings. These guys are professional athletes, not a group of senior citizens….they should be able to handle 18 innings.
All of the silly, game show-like rules should be tossed out now that the pandemic has passed. No more 3-batter minimum for relief pitchers, no more limits on mound visits, no more zombie runner on second base to start extra innings, No more 7-inning doubleheaders, and while we’re at it, get RID OF THE DESIGNATED HITTER.
Didn’t hear that the pandemic had passed.
Watch something other than CNN…….
Sounds more as if you and your ‘likes’ are stuck on FOX. 🙂
It has.
To be clear, the issue with the starting runner on second base in extra innings is NOT that it is gimmicky, but that IT VIOLATES A FUNDAMENTAL TENANT OF HOW BASEBALL WORKS. The MLB rule book itself discusses how every base “must be accounted for”, and yet this is a magical runner represented by a guy who (usually) ended the previous inning. It isn’t actual baseball, but a “baseball-like” product, or a baseball exercise. Mind you, there is no requirement that a sport always be ended with a pure style of play, but baseball got along for over a hundred years with normal extra innings. And, for reference, the sport closest to how baseball operates in terms of physical demands, stamina, and game frequency (basketball) works the same way, adding extra mini-periods until a period ends without a deadlock.
The fact of the matter is, for baseball purists (and baseball is a sports in which a ton of fans are purists), it’s painful to see these unaccounted for runners along with the boosted scoring frequency of extra innings. That was a “sacrifice” very easily made when dealing with a pandemic, and even understandable this follow-up season, but with how this year has essentially returned to normal the practice has been revealed as so out-of-line with the sport. It’s time to return to normal! If baseball wants to consider a practice to reduce runaway lengthy games (such as what one person suggested above, going to the automatic runner on second only after 12 innings), okay, that would be acceptable, as it wouldn’t happen all that often and frequency is part of the problem with this current approach.
7th innings doubleheaders are great, runner at second too, it makes you want to watch an extra innings game.
why does the extra innings starting two innings earlier make for better viewing?
I love both rules also. Hey, I hate slow long boring baseball
Not surprising. You sound like the typical young fan who spends more time at a baseball game on their cell phone and leaves by the 7th inning anyway.
How does making the game shorter innings-wise speed up the pace? We need to not cater to people that don’t like baseball.
just wait…here come all the people angry at Manfred for doing something they wanted to happen!
Next time maybe get a commissioner who is also a baseball fan instead of a guy just collecting a paycheck. Manfred appears to be a guy who thinks he’s making a name for himself by tinkering with the game
I’m no big fan of Manfred but I do give him credit for pushing the envelope on these rule changes. It’s one of the few areas where a legitimate process (or cause) has been demonstrated in conceiving, testing and implementing them (tacky substance notwithstanding).
I have no idea what the actual numbers may be but I would speculate that the number of existing fans that stop following the sport because of progressive rule changes is minimal compared to the number of new fans that may be attracted to it. It’s really just a practical exercise of evaluating your product and growing (hopefully) your customer base.
Are there really a bunch of people who suddenly started watching baseball because of these rules?
That’s a great question.
@JD, the point is to keep them watching right? If you are a new fan without a purist bias, it’s about watch ability which would include pace and action. Most of these newer rules are specifically targeting those characteristics. For the purists among fans I doubt there will ever be a substantial exodus from following the sport because of rule changes. I suspect cheating and generational changes in attitude play a far larger role in losing established fans. And I also question whether the amount of fans lost due to those factors is even statistically significant.
Can we get a poll for fan approval of Manfred? That would be interesting.
What’s the point? To disapprove of Manfred equates to disapproving team owners’ decisions. It’s not like he unilaterally makes these decisions and is only a mouthpiece. In Manfred’s defense, he’s a much better communicator than his predecessor Bud Selig.
What the commissioner needs to say is that 9 inning doubleheaders WILL be back or we will get rid of the extra guy for DHs. It’s ridiculous that teams are allowed to bring up an extra man for basically the equivalent of a 14 inning game. Keep the 27th man, but say it has to be used on opposing starting pitchers (unless it is a day before rain out where two pitchers are rested and ready to go).. That way the big league rotations regular routines won’t be compromised. If starters are not needed, then have the managers compromise and both teams bring up the exact same type player, either a reliever or a position player, so no advantage is needed.
Managers just need to be smarter when using bullpens. There is ABSOLUTELY no reason that a big league game should require 7-8 pitchers in a 9 inning game. “Bullpen days” need to become a relic of the past. If starters can’t go 6, then they shouldn’t be starters. People overthink the left-left and right-right match ups as well. Sure there is an advantage, but it’s not like lefties hit 1.000 against right handed relievers and vice versa. If big league relievers can’t get out opposite handed guys, maybe they shouldn’t be big league relievers at all.
As the late great Ernie Banks said, “Let’s play two.” He didn’t say, “Let’s play two shorter games because I am tired and don’t feel like running for an extra four innings.”
Re: L v. R matchups – it’s always been said that when a reliever is going good, L or R, they can get everyone out.
They should just have something like a straight up 30-man roster and you “healthy scratch” a bunch of guys to make something like 22 or so available, for a reasonable sized bench and bullpen. An injury or hitting extras (without the infernal runner on second rule) allows you to activate another guy, etc.
Hard to applaud him too much for offering to un-ruin one of numerous things he ruined
I like “un-ruin”. I’m going to steal that.
I’d get rid of the runner on 2nd in extras ASAP. Alternative: a true sudden death in extras. Lead off the top of the 10th with a HR? Game over! Home team loses last at bat privilege after the 9th.
That’s a terrible idea. Might as well determine the final score with HR derby shootout with targets behind the fences.
What are you talking about? You realize my example was one possibility? The point was if the away team scores first the game is over. Whether it’s the 10th or the 18th. There would be no more finishing the inning with the possibility of the home team tying and extending the game further.
Unfortunately you try to think of something so dumb as to be satirical and two days later you see an article where they’re trialing it in the minors somewhere.
They need to understand the distinction between making a product for everyone vs. making a product for anyone.
At seven innings the games are still too long. Three balls and two strikes along with two outs would be great to initiate. The games put fans to sleep otherwise.
With nobody on? There’s no drama in that. Start with the bases loaded too.
I’m curious. Does the auto-runner on 2nd who failed to get on base the previous inning get a run scored stat if he scores?
And does he get credited for 4 bases?
Credited for a run just like a pinch runner. However, there is no plate appearance to tie the occupancy of the base to, thus no total bases accumulated. This is the glitch in the purist matrix.
The woman in the red dress…
I was opposed to putting the runner at second. However, now I’m a fan. I’m intrigued as to how teams approach such situations. Seven inning games can go but I’m guessing they may become an answer to a lot of what is perceived as the problems of today’s game. It does shorten the game and reduces the need for mediocre pitchers.
Lots of commenters have pointed out that length isn’t the problem. Sports fans will watch three three hour football games n a row. It’s that it “feels” like it is taking forever to get to the action. I think mediocre pitching is exactly what MLB is looking for! They want more action you need worse pitching!!
No amount of TV stuff or trying to reengineer baseball into something way cooler than regular lame baseball will make people appreciate throwing a curveball over for a strike on a 2-0 count.
That’s funny, because I “feel” the same way about football. Incessant game breaks and time outs, penalty after penalty, wasted plays running up the middle for no gain time and time again. It’s no better than baseball that way.
How many 7 inning double headers have the Mets played again soo far? If they played anywhere from 4-5 double headers wouldn’t that equal almost 1 games worth of innings that they get to completely skip out on? How is that fair to other team’s bullpen/starters?
That’s a good point. What was initially meant as a way to mitigate the damage done from covid cancellations is now turning into a rule that affects certain teams much more than others. Certain east coast and Midwest teams are dealing with this issue at a level that west coast teams or domed teams really do not have to worry about. I just can’t fathom an actual fan wanting 7 inning fake games. If you like watching 7 innings why wouldn’t you want to watch two more ?
Make it happen, 7 inning games are for softball leagues, not MLB.
Boo. I like the 7 inning DHers.
Good. Now get rid of runner on 2nd in extras. For the 7th inning DHs if it goes past the 7th inning. Make it where the extra innings are the 10th inning on.
I hate the universal DH too but it’s inevitable. That’s the best of the 3 new rules. The runner on 2nd is the dumbest shhh ever.
I like the ghost runner to keep things moving along, but I feel like putting them on second for free is too much. My idea would be to either put ghosty on first base, or choose to start with him on second with one out.
I also like 7 inning double headers. 18 innings is a LOT of baseball to follow in one day.
No one is forcing fans to follow/listen/watch all 18 innings. I agree that can be a lot, but that isn’t a reason to change the basic structure of a baseball game based of something as uncontrollable as the weather.
That defeats the purpose. Runner on first? That’s just a gimmick without the added probability of ending the game sooner. What’s the point? If baseball is too boring, watch something else, don’t ruin it for the rest of us.
Baseball 1-fine with 7 inning dh, 2-reduce schedule to 154 games, was precedent for many years, 3-expand two more teams makes leagues even, eliminate interleague, four division each league of four teams, and 4-dh in both leagues.
They could just light all the baseballs on fire, like a version of NBA Jam, too, I suppose.
Finally, some good news in baseball. Next, get rid of inter league play, make the leagues matter again and bring back all the rivalries.
Unfortunately you can’t get rid of inter league play without either expansion or realignment so one league has more teams than the other (like it was in the AL from 1977-1992 and the NL from 1998-2012)
I would love to go back to a balanced schedule instead of the unbalanced with or without inter league play
The Astros cheated. Under the small print of their league transfer terms that gives the American League the right to return them to the National League. Problem solved.
Twice this season a pitcher has thrown a no-hitter in a 7 inning double header game and the no-hitter doesn’t count as official, which is ridiculous. If the win/loss and all the other stats count as official, so should that.
Baseball used to be a human chess match, now its barely strat-o-matic. Manfred keeps trying to fix something that isn’t broken by breaking it. Once upon a time teams played scheduled day/night double headers before the days of every single game being televised. This has nothing to do with the players and everything to do with tv and networks not having to devote so much time to one thing because the Pirates had to preempt a program yesterday for two games against the Mets that no one probably watched.
baseball will be good again when pitchers learn to pitch and batters learn to hit
Yeah, I mean sure, home runs are nice, but it just simply makes no sense for guys that are not power hitters to try to jack it out of the park of all time, On the other hand, it’s quite obvious why seems like everyone is trying to do that, to get a fat contract.
I like both rules for the regular season. Do away with the runner on second in the playoffs. Just like hockey OT rules differ in the postseason than the regular season.
$$$, that is what is really the reason for going back to 9 inning games for DH. Most now play their 7 inning DH back to back with a short break. That is only one gate. With 9 inning DH they will go back to splitting them as day-night DH and get a 2nd gate.
So the only rule change that has been worth while they want to revert. Of course they do, people like it so they have to do the opposite and make unnecessary rule changes to “increase fan interest.” This commissioner has done nothing but nerf pitching since he got in. Dude needs to go, what else can these pitchers do. Now he wants to go back to putting extra stress on their arms.
How about an actual definition of a check swing and a balk. Like seriously check swing is either a snap of the wrist or the bat crossing the plane over home plate. How just any attempt of of moving your bat to the plate is automatically strike. And a balk no quick pitches , don’t have a pitcher have his front front drop back to the ground twice, when he doesn’t start going forward. Like seriously those rules needs a definition. If we’re checking foreign substance in pitchers for doctoring the baseball then we should be checking the batters for any illegal electronic devices on them or their bats, just make it fair for the pitchers that they don’t be the only one check.
Start extra innings with a runner on first instead of second. From second, a runner could score on a bloop single. From first, teams would have to manufacture a run or get a couple of hits. At the very least they would have to get a solid extra-base hit.
I wouldn’t have a problem with that.
Appealing to the masses after all the booing at draft.
If MLB was really worried about losing fans, they wouldn’t have deleted 43 minor league teams.
Thank the baseball gods! Now do something even more heavenly by implementing the automated strike zone into MLB by 2022 while also adopting the universal DH once and for all.
I think the universal DH is very likely.. Automated sounds great on paper but it is wildly different zone than what you see on TV and MLB pitchers would dominate with it. I think changing the zone and using technology to help umpires is the way to go. Let the umps call the game and have something that quickly overrides if the pitch is say 2 inches outside of the zone.
The automated strike zone on TV is not what MLB would implement. It is not what’s currently being used in minor league games. The zone would be the same for every player vertically based on the width of the plate. It’s the horizontal measurement that would vary from hitter to hitter based on how MLB settles on the top and bottom of their strike zone. Every player would then be measured based upon their height and hopefully standing erect which would eliminate the excessive crouching that gave players like Rickey Henderson postage size zones in the past.
The height measurement would be pre-programmed into the automated system with the vertical dimensions already set based upon plate width. It would also be a 3D laser zone. If the pitched ball hits any part of the hitter’s individually programmed zone if would be a strike. Home plate umpires would still be needed to perform all their other duties including check swings, foul tips and hit by pitches although many of those could also be decided with the use of a quick hand-held video apparatus.
All this eliminates the every fans favorite stat,…the pitch-framing metric! lol
Automated strike zones should also help speed up the game. There is no arguing any pitch taken. The outcome is instantaneous with no disputing. If anybody would have an advantage once the system is implemented and in use for a while t figures to be the hitter and not the pitchers which ought to make MLB and most fans happy. Hitters will quickly learn their own strike zones and should chase less pitches. Pitchers and catchers will no longer benefit from the cheat of pitch-framing. If the offense picks up enough then MLB might actually stop messing with juiced balls and just concentrate on juiced players. There would be no need to even think about moving the pitching mound back a couple of feet which has been discussed recently. It might also keep MLB from implementing any new shift rules. Umps could also concentrate on enforcing the time clock rule between pitches.
Hopes to return? Who will stop it from returning to the pre-Covid rules?
Players association has to agree to it.
I thought that, but if that was the case then it seems the Universal DH would have remained, and we know the players want that. Not sure why the MLBPA’s approval would be required to play by the league rules. The Covid rules should have been temporary.
I don’t the the players would fight against it but the association does have to give its approval. The article here goes over that.
Yay. Hate these rules.
LETS GOOO
I won’t miss the 7 inning double headers. Hope they go back to 9 innings and no more man on second to start extras
Agreed. Both are terrible, but the man on second to start extras, is one of the worst ideas that I can ever recall, in any sport. Even if they had to put someone on, which is just so stupid, why not put him at first? Leaves the pressure on the hitter to not hit into a DP, and the defense has to be ready for the sacrifice. Either way, ridiculous business. The people that want to change baseball, don’t love baseball. They love money. Period.
It also treats teams almost too equally, not “rewarding” teams that have built stronger bullpens, who should be in better position to win extra-inning games.
My hope for 2022, is less of Manfred. What are his good, even ok accomplishments for making this already perfect game, better? I’m not even joking. I’ll acknowledge if he’s done something good, but off the top, all I can think of is one bad idea after another. I watched the entire 1st round the other night, and watching him get booed throughout, was pretty special.
My question is…will my moniker ever be relevant again?
I wish man. I’m only 39, but I feel like a grumpy old man with all these changes. I know I’ll get crucified for saying this, but sabermetrics is to blame for a lot of the change. I have zero problem with taking information and using it, but the overload of processing information , is weakening the product. How many “Web Gems” do you see anymore? Practically none. Because everyone is in the right spot. Shifts have been around forever. But the extreme shifts, make it less exciting. They are effective, but the truly great plays from the beginning of baseball, are gone. Sorry to rant. My game is changing, and I don’t like it.
With you bro although I do favor increased rosters, especially if it would lead to more peace in labor negotiations and maybe even a salary cap with a decent minimum spending floor. Permanent 27 or 28-man rosters with a cap of 14 pitchers along with the likely expansion of two more teams in the near future would add 84-116 new jobs for the MLBPA and could give MLB two-16 team leagues comprised of four-4 team divisions, potentially simplifying the number of postseason entrants while eliminating the one-and-done wild card format.
Implement the automated strike zone and the universal DH asap and this 65-year old baseball fanatic just might be happy enough to shut up for the rest of my life.
28 men? 14 pitchers? Hope you like watching pitching changes after every batter in the last third of the game.
Well if we are going back to traditional baseball rules, then that means this seasons results are meaningless like last year. Rest up Braves – no one will care who wins this year (like last).
Meaningless is a stretch. It’s not like the Dodgers had different rules during the playoffs than everyone else or that the game through the first nine innings was fundamentally different than in prior years. Everyone had the same rules; the results still matter. Sure, you could argue that the Dodgers could’ve succumbed to injuries or another team could have made a huge trade or gotten a big boost from a rookie, but that could go the other way, too. Unknown and unknowable. Last year counts, so does this year. It honestly sounds like you’re just salty about Acuna going down (not that I blame you on that score).
Dodgers won last year, I’m happy to be here to remind you. Go Angels!
Happier about the runner on 2nd rule going away than I am even about the double-header going to 9. Rob “Blind Squirrel” Manfred finally found something that will probably make most of the fan base happier.
Bottom line.. scheduled a seven inning game. Mad Bum threw a no hitter and it’s irrelevant. I had no prob with 7 inng double headers and man on second, if they are at least considered legit. Mad Bum got freaking robbed..
I think it should count in the records as a no-hitter if that’s all the game was scheduled for. You play under whatever the rules are at the time.
Correct. He threw the whole scheduled game. I can see if it was rained out after seven.. maybe
How bout inning girls like they have in boxing? Semi serious suggestion. Otherwise don’t change anything except get rid of the ridiculous new rules
There are real issues with pacing.. Baseball games don’t need to be 3:15-3:30. I’d be for a pitch clock, limiting pitchers on a roster or allowed to pitch in a game, really forcing batters to stay in the box, etc. These other rules just haven’t worked.
I agree with some of the other posts than Manfred is too front and center and needs to become less visible.
I like that they using the minors as a lab. Find out what works and go with it. Most fans aren’t saying baseball can never change – it always does. But, fundamentally changing the game is too drastic.
.
When a batter calls for time, ump says no… that should solve it on the batting end.
Get rid of them both. If you think the game is too long then go watch drag racing or bull riding. They’re less than a minute.
Instead of baseballs, they should use water balloons during extra innings. Also, the ghost runner at second base should not be human. Each team will be forced to roll dice, with a different animal representing each side. The six possibilities will include the following…Dog, Sheep, Squirrel, Rooster, Rabbit and Turtle.
Also, none of these changes are going to attract fans. The actual issues that need to be resolved to bring in new fans MLB/MLBPA won’t acknowledge.
Good start. Now implement the DH across the board so teams can plan for it then have a league rejig to give us a balanced schedule. Then we can actually see who are the best teams on merit and not those who have destroyed some weak division teams. Then scrap the 2nd wildcard.
They need to expand to 32 teams and realign the divisions. I’m fine with a more balanced schedule.
Four teams per division
13 games against each division rival (13×3 = 39)
9 games against the other 12 teams in your league (9×12 = 108)
15 inter-league games
39+108+15 = 162
We were promised no math.
Thank God now get rid of the runner at 2nd in extra innings and install the DH in the NL
#KeepTheRunnerOnSecondExtraInningRule2022
How about making the actual product more readily available for people to watch as a method of attracting more fans? Remove blackouts including local blackouts on the MLB app. Let people watch the home run derby on the MLB app rather than requiring them to go through ESPN. If people find it a hindrance to consume the actual product, it’s fairly difficult for them to develop a liking for it. It’s 2021 and people have moved past broadcast television and yet baseball is still beholden to these archaic TV deals.
Removing the blackouts means MLB.tv ends up being far more expensive since it suddenly has to make up for billions in tv contracts… so I say keep the blackouts. Works out for me since I root for a non-local team. They’ve already shortened the blackout time anyway, used to be you had to wait until the next day to watch the game.
A welcome change. Get rid of the 7 inning crap and the beer league extra inning rule.
Total crap. If you find the game boring you don’t know baseball. I agree with getting rid of the inter league stuff as well. Boring made up rivalries that don’t exist. Before inter league the Blue Jays and Tigers played more than 6 games a year. Let’s have inter league though to make Chicago, New York and LA happy. It was much better when the other league was an unknown. It’s what made the World Series special.
You need to add two teams if intraleague games are eliminated. 15 teams in each league. Someone has to play intraleague games each night. They could cut them down to where each team only plays a few, instead of whatever it is now (18?)
They can start that runner on second nonsense in the 12th.
I could live with that, but I still prefer it go away entirely. Starting it in the 10th (or 8th inning of a double-header) sucks.
This doubleheader stuff cracks me up. First, a large majority of the doubleheaders are a direct result of games and teams missing multiple games due to COVID .
That said, next year, after a rain out the teams will go back to finding a common off date and filling a make up game them and avoiding and not playing as many doubleheaders as possible. This year any lost game is automatically filled into a day that the teams are already scheduled.
We are going to get back to teams playing a max of two or three dates with two games.
It’s too late. 90% of baseball’s total value was permanently and irreparably destroyed the first time a runner ran out to second base to start extra innings, and the same would have been true the first time we had a 7 inning game or especially one expanded playoff in 2020. Changing it back won’t fix it. Baseball can never have an ounce of statistical integrity again no matter what it does. You can’t stop a tradition and then start it again and get it to have any value.
Well, then baseball never had any value since the late 1800’s. For one year, any ball that hit first in fair territory was considered fair, no matter when it went foul. Players with contact ability adjusted their swings to chop the ball down and have it go foul well before it reached the 1B or 3B. Some guys got so good at it that the 3B would have to play outside the line to have a chance. The next year, the rule that we have today was restored. But since there was one aberration all that time ago, I guess no stats at any point in the game should count and it’s all been trash all this time. Such a shame. Hope nobody tells the players and fans they’re wasting their time watching.
Look I didn’t say baseball needed to be how it was since the 1800s. But at some point we got it right a while ago. It’s not ok to change it anymore for any reason, but especially not for money, marketing, or casual fans. And don’t give me the business rights bullcrap, baseball is different. It has an antitrust exemption it doesn’t legally deserve, and it can trade its players/employees around the country to other organizations. Why is it allowed to do this when other businesses are not? Because the legislature realized baseball is not just another business.
I personally like both rules. Makes it more entertaining. And most stadiums allow u to get buy one get one free in double headers so it not like your watching less.
I also am so sick of this dead ball era and non steroid use. I miss mcquire Sosa and them guys barreling the ball up. Ho ahead kill yourself on steroids , I wanna see 70-90 homers in a year w 250rbi. F pitching. I hate pitching.
MLB is past the point of being able to pretend they care about the integrity and continuity of the game. Go ahead and set up a system where fans will able allowed a 15 min window to bid on which team wins in extra innings. You can then expand that the whole game, eventually eliminating the need for labor and a vast increase in profits.
If they get rid of the stupid 7 inning doubleheaders and runner on 2nd extra innings BS rules, then they also have to get rid of the stupid “3 batter minimum rule”, which is also BS. By the way, none of those rules should have ever existed in the first place.
Imo the 3 batter rule should stay, the 7 inning doubleheader should go, the automatic baserunner only after the 11th inning, DH in the National League heaven’s no. Yeah, some pitchers can’t hit a lick (because they haven’t put in the time). When you look at how many pitchers HAVE gotten hits, even multiple hits in the same game (Max Fried for example), you’ll notice that pitchers are baseball players and baseball players bat. Even a relief pitcher hit a grand slam a couple weeks ago.
Commissioner Manfred does not really care about the aforementioned changes. All he really wants is the DH in both leagues. This will increase revenue from perhaps a $5 million utility player to a $20/$25 million DH. It is framed as more action but reality money grab. It will be more palatable as he appears to concede the other rule changes to keep the DH. Really dislike what he has done to our game.
At first I hated both rules… now, I don’t mind them. I agree extra innings should be regular baseball for the 10th and 11th… then add the runner. We haven’t seen as many 18 and 19 inning games this year.
Maybe add a runner on first… then runners on first and second… then bases loaded?
The 7 inning rule double headers… not a big fan… but don’t hate it.
Using the ghost runner on 2nd to start the 11th inning is a reasonable compromise unless MLB expands the rosters to 28 … or … employ the “healthy scratch” as in hockey, where you can have 28 men on your roster but only allow 26 to be available to play each day.
I think the average MLB team was playing 1 15 inning game or longer every other year before this. 80-85 percent of extra inning games end after 12 and about half after 10. Plus, with the runner on 2nd, each half inning takes so long, games are only 5 minutes shorter.
It’s a solution to a non existent problem and should be removed.
LOL
Manfred is just pulling these rules off the table to use as bargaining chips. I do believe most people in baseball (players, coaches, owners writers) like the 7 inning double headers and the runner on 2nd rule. Keeps them from getting burned out. As a fan i dont like the 7 inning double rule and would be fine with a runner on 2nd after 11 innings. The fans are in the minority and they will not take our opinions into consideration.
I’m glad the league won’t take your opinion into consideration. Putting U12 travel softball rules into the MLB should even have to be considered. The integrity of the game is non-negotiable.
Appreciate you my dude
MLB cares a lot more about what their customers will pay for than what the players think. 7 inning double headers mean they can’t schedule it as a split double header without backlash which means they lose a game of their season’s ticket revenue. And players don’t like that lost revenue either because it translates to lower salaries in the end.
No. Play until a team wins without a ghost runner.
This is BS JUST GET RID OF IT. My is manfred determined to ruin the game
eugh. always a catch.
And why couldn’t this year have 9 inning doubleheader? Cause Manfred is a dipsh*t.
Fans will not determine. MLPA/MLB will decide. Another bargaining chip for CBA. Players probably enjoy as is.
Nothing wrong with playing 9 extra outs each and then going to the International Tie Breaker rule after 12 innings.
Agree 100%. Since most extra inning games are settled within a few, I’m fine with the modified version.
I just wonder how many “purists” are here posting and complaining about the Covid rules and want to see the game returned to “real” baseball also WANT the DH in the NL?
I’m a baseball ‘purist’, and I don’t want the NL DH.
I’m not a purist, I like the runner on 2nd extra inning rule, I root mainly for an AL team, and I still don’t want the NL DH. They’ve killed every other difference between the two leagues, there needs to be something to let me know when I’m watching a national league game and some variety in strategy. Makes it more interesting when an AL team goes to an NL park too, or in the world series, getting to see a different style and watching your pitchers try to hit occasionally.
Both rules are stupid
Why not have the extra inning rule become something that gets more strict as innings pass. As an example, 10th inning, normal play, 11th, start a runner at first, 12th, a runner at second, 13th a runner at 3rd, 14th would be first and third, 15th would be second and third, sixteenth and on, bases loaded.
But really, no games would go past the thirteenth with this progressive rule, but it at least puts an end in sight.
Slob Manfred is a bundle of sticks.
I propose wild boars in the outfield. That would really spice the game up.
Sign Cespedes, he’s got experience with that