There’s already been plenty of speculation regarding the Mets’ search for a president of baseball operations. They’ve been very loosely tied to notable names like Theo Epstein, Josh Byrnes, Chris Antonetti, and Derek Falvey in recent weeks, and chatter has picked up over the past few days about a potential run at another marquee executive: Athletics president of baseball operations Billy Beane.
Last week, Ken Rosenthal of the Athletic opined that the Mets should make a run at both Beane and A’s manager Bob Melvin with a plan to install Beane atop the baseball operations department and to bring Melvin in to replace Luis Rojas as manager. MLB Network’s Jon Heyman has somewhat vaguely suggested that Beane is “on the Mets’ radar” in the past few days (Twitter links), though as he notes, there’s no guarantee the interest would be reciprocated.
Andy Martino of SNY reports the Mets would indeed be willing to consider the Beane/Melvin pursuit. However, he adds that there have not yet been any discussions between the Mets and Beane regarding his interest in making that jump, nor have the Mets been in contact with the A’s about potentially granting Beane permission to interview for a position with New York.
It’s not especially surprising to hear whispers that Mets president Sandy Alderson could pursue Beane, who was a protégé of his during the 1990s. Beane succeeded Alderson as baseball operations leader of the A’s in 1997 when the latter took a position in the commissioner’s office. The two have remained close in the more than two decades since, and Alderson even returned to the A’s in an advisory capacity between his pair of stints with the Mets (as general manager from 2010-18 and since last offseason as president).
Alderson has been running day-to-day baseball operations in Queens this month. Last offseason’s GM hire Jared Porter was fired a few weeks into his tenure after revelations that he’d previously sexually harassed a reporter. Acting GM Zack Scott has been on administrative leave since September 2 because of a DWI arrest. That’s forced Alderson to assume a more demanding role, but he’s planning to step back into a broader team president role next season while relinquishing daily baseball operations tasks to whoever he and owner Steve Cohen tab as the next president of baseball operations.
It’s fairly typical for teams to refuse to allow front office personnel who remain under contract to interview with other clubs for lateral positions. Beane is already Oakland’s president of baseball operations and owns an approximate 1% stake in the franchise, so it’s difficult to envision the Mets presenting him a loftier title than the one he already possesses. (Beane would have to divest that ownership share in the A’s if he joined another MLB team). That said, it’s also plausible A’s ownership would make an exception to that general rule and allow Beane to interview for a lateral move — both out of respect for his accomplishments with the club and because general manager David Forst has long been viewed as Beane’s successor-in-waiting. Forst is “not considered a possibility” for the Mets, Martino writes.
Of course, there’d be no chance of a Beane/Melvin pairing in Queens if those two are uninterested in a change of scenery. Rumors about Beane departing the A’s to join a larger-market, high-payroll club have swirled for the better part of two decades, but he’s remained in Oakland to this point. Melvin has been A’s manager since the middle of the 2011 season, and the club exercised an option in June to bring him back for the 2022 season. Beane and Melvin have clearly been comfortable in the Bay Area and part of a steady leadership contingent in the organization for some time. It’s possible one or both would prefer to stay where they are, even in spite of the allure of a larger payroll and the chance to work with Alderson in New York.
Much remains to be determined in the Mets’ front office search. It’s at least easy to glean from initial reports that Cohen and Alderson are setting their sights high, targeting well-known and respected executives with plenty of experience running baseball operations departments elsewhere.
Ducky Buckin Fent
Bean not to much.miss war. So he make is good for more WAR fir met. Cohen get beans then alk ektra war not misssed WAR & mets wi.n. too worlt series
Is this Charlie Kelly?
Ducky Buckin Drunk
Fever Pitch Guy
He’s celebrating the sweep that I called last weekend.
Meanwhile Jays fans keep insisting their team is “hot” even though they are just 4-4 in their last 8 games and came within one run of splitting a series against Baltimore.
Should be a fun weekend ahead, unless Cora screws it up as usual. Not happy that Pivetta is starting instead of Sale, but I do have confidence in him nonetheless.
Ducky Buckin Fent
Yanks did what they needed to, @FPG. After the Cleveland & Baltimore series’ that was not a given.
Gotta win this series in Boston though, serious. September series against the sox with our season on the line. Manfred couldn’t have hoped for more.
bruh our last three games were against a top 3 team in baseball who we beat in a series last week… ur just cheesed cus ur Yankees aren’t even gonna make the playoffs simply cus Vladdy Daddy better than Judge
Fever Pitch Guy
Agreed DBF, nothing in baseball is a given. However the Law of Averages can usually be counted on. Yanks were due for another run, and the Jays were due for another slide. Despite taking 3 of 4 against Baltimore they didn’t look good, the signs were there.
Yanks taking two this weekend would not be a surprise.
Ducky Buckin Fent
Yeah, you called it.
Yanks are in a pretty tight spot though. We don’t necessarily need to sweep any of these upcoming series’. But: we do pretty much need to win all 3. Certainly not impossible.
Obviously won’t be easy, however.
It’s not really how I thought the season would play out. Doesn’t means it’s not an entertaining finish by any means.
This is the best division in MLB. Hands down.
Should be more of the same next season too.
Get Off My Mound
You slam one too many back tonight, Ducky?
Ducky Buckin Fent
I was trying to capture metsfan22’s literary style, such as it is. Too much?
Not too much, but it wasn’t clear your faux “caveman geek homerism speak,” was mocking MetsPhan22. Maybe I’m slow, but thanks for clarifying.
Ducky Buckin Fent
So…maybe it wasn’t enough. Anyway. Guess I didn’t quite capture his je ne sais que very well.
The Mets "Missed WAR"
I’m pretty sure he was just mocking the intelligence and thought process of the average Mets fan. It seemed at least relatively accurate to me.
“Average Met fan”? Ummm, no. Unrealistic stereotype embodied by a few individuals: yes.
Curly Was The Smart Stooge
What about Tony LaRussa? Keep that management rubber ducky floating in the same dirty bath water.
The Mets "Missed WAR"
@Cosmo2: I guess I should have said “average comment by a Mets fan on this site.” Metsfan22 is making so many idiotic comments that it makes Mets fans look stupid. I can’t speak for the other Mets fans but he seems far more vocal than all of them combined.
Don’t be dumb… y’all desperate need someone like him. Train wreck of an organization could use a little class and wisdom lol
bravesfan, If you were a smart baseball person, would you be willing to work for Steve Cohen based on what you’ve seen so far? Why or why not?
Dusty Baker's tooth pick.
I wouldn’t. Just because his idea of building a winning team is to throw a bunch of money at the wall while ignoring the development of prospects. Then he goes on Twitter to talk crap about them. He just needs to shut the hell up on Twitter. Build a winning core like the Dodgers before you go all out.
Of those candidates listed, the only one I could see taking the POBO position is Epstein. But I’d imagine we’d want to make a serious overhaul of most FO positions to institute a successful culture.
It seems like the Mets have had a toxic/unsuccessful
(Hit post too soon) culture for many years now. Cohen brought a greater willingness to spend-but he hasn’t changed the culture.
What u describe? is exactly what georgie steinbrenner did perfectly for over 3 decades and they won multiple WS crowns.. bought every FA he wanted, bad mouthed the team via every media around at the time whenever he felt like it, traded away most every prospect for aging veterans to supplement the FA’s he had bought and kept the highest payroll in the game for 30y.
That system of course can’t work exactly like georgie’s did with the cba setup to rob large market teams like it is now, but Cohen can still use his financial might to buy big FA’s and develop amateur talent better than poor mouthing teams if he uses his brains and hires the correct people to run the franchise, meaning dump alderson and get an epstein/beane type to helm the club and give them full power.
Yeah but in fairness, Cohen only got the Mets ownership just before the existing culture took the field. In other words, he hasn’t had much time to “change the culture”.
Not trying to make excuses, but I think it’s a bit too early to say he’s not done anything to change the culture.
That said, there’s definitely been some Wilponisms in Queens. The Kumar Rocker pick/not sign, the typical never knowing the level of seriousness behind injuries (I’m referencing the DeGrom injury but there are others), the dude that just got the DUI. There’s still a big top circus over queens for sure.
Actually, the Yankees had a long dry spell due to George’s free-agent spending. Teaming Mattingly with big-ticket items Henderson and Winfield never amounted to anything. The Yankees didn’t get good again until after George stopped interfering with his baseball people.
Exactly @ Cey Hey
An owner can be a fan of a team if he doesn’t interfere. Look at Mickey Arison with the Miami Heat. He was a fan and was jumping for joy when he pried the team away from Louie Schaffel in the mid-90s. He ignored his fandom, hired Pat Riley, and has stepped back since, only being the guy that signs the checks. That’s where a guy like Cohen fails. He’s a fan that wants to interfere and shows his homer attitude. Not good for an owner to do…even as a fan of his team.
Fever Pitch Guy
The Mattingly Curse!
From 1976-1981 the Yanks made it to the LCS 5 times, won the AL Pennant 4 times, and won the World Series 2 times.
During Mattingly’s playing career from 1982-1995 the Yanks never even made it to the LCS.
Immediately after Mattingly’s retirement (from 1996-2004) the Yanks made it to the LCS 7 times, won the AL Pennant 6 times, and won the World Series 4 times.
What are the odds! Poor guy, he deserved to play in at least one WS.
He was drafted by Mets and have up baseball, so becoming apart of their FO, he’d either blow it up out of spite or they’d finish him off and MONEYBALL would have a Mets of an ending. Either way, Mets will Met.
@MetsFan22. I mean at this point shouldnt you be grateful for whatever it is you get? I mean you might as well cheer for a wise cracking guerilla.
They should hire Billy Bean, at least he’d upgrade the office decor.
Curly Was The Smart Stooge
I see that @MetsFan22 is using his experience in dating for this post.
Pretend to not want the hot commodity before being rejected by the hot commodity.
Billy Beane is in a win-win situation in Oakland. A’s win and he’s a genius. A’s lose and Oakland is a “small market team.” Tough to give up that dynamic.
Or work for a control freak like Cohen. The Mets will not have their choice of front-office execs, regardless of what fans might think. It’ll be similar to when the Wilpons hired Van Wagenen. If you remember, the candidates who wanted to properly restructure the organization were bypassed in favor of the guy who insisted he could win now. The Mets are no different now. They need restructuring and are several years away from being a contender. If Cohen makes the same mistake the Wilpons made, the Mets will wind up being like the Orioles. There’s never an easy fix in baseball for mediocre teams. That’s been proven over and over.
By the way, for an organization that needs to patiently rebuild, the soon-to-be-74-year-old Alderson is exactly the wrong guy to be calling the shots.
The difference between wilpons getting BVW and Cohen hiring someone is money. The wilpons knew they were about to sell, wanted to win now, and had a limited bank roll. If Cohen’s pockets are as deep as everyone says a competent GM can turn the team into a win now situation.
Mediocre teams aren’t transformed into winners in one off-season. Look at their starting pitching. Syndergaard, deGrom and Carrasco have major health concerns. Syndergaard and Stroman are free agents who might choose a better situation. Walker after tonight has an ERA of 6.75 in his last 12 starts and 7.73 since the all-star break. Peterson (injured) and Magill have done nothing to indicate they are solid rotation options for 2022. Rich Hill hardly represents the future. Starting pitching wins. It’s also a Mets weakness moving forward with too many question marks.
In 2021, the Mets have used 18 different starting pitchers. When their front office claimed they were satisfied with the team’s rotation depth heading into the season, I doubt that’s what I had in mind. Btw, that last part paraphrases what Cohen, Darling and Hernandez stayed during tonight’s telecast. Those guys full-well know the various problems plaguing the Mets.
I’m not disagreeing that it’s a multi year process but there’s a massive difference between the wilpons on their way out and Cohen on his way in. The wilpons wanted to win now because they only had a few seasons left with the team. Even if it’s a sub par roster with a win now owner – the owner has the deep pockets the wilpons didn’t have 3/4 years ago. There aren’t many great rosters with GM openings because if the roster was great the GM would still be employed.
It’s Billy Beane. You don’t hire him to be a puppet nor will he take the job. The Wilpons were a special breed so I don’t think the comp is fair. I also don’t feel the Mets are far away from contention with the division they play in. The could go full East Coast Dodgers surpassing the Yankees in payroll next year. It’s too early to judge Cohen and let’s give Lindor another year.
The Dodgers don’t win because of payroll. They win because they are a top-flight organization that drafts and develops MLB contributors at an alarming rate. In 2020’s expanded post-season, they had more homegrown players on their playoff roster than any team.
Running the organization properly and developing players matters. The Yankees proved that when they are successful in the ’90s. And they are kind of proving it now by using the opposite approach and failing. What a dull team they are.
Regarding Cohen, it’s a bad look that he’s choosing to be the face of the franchise with his constant tweeting. What owner does that? And don’t say George Steinbrenner because the Yankees floundered for more than a decade before George decided to step back and leave the baseball business to his baseball people.
More Cohen: it was dumb giving all that money to Lindor when there was no reason to. That’s the kind of deal a team gives to an impact hitter, which Lindor clearly is not. It’s also the type of signing a team makes when the rest of the team is already in place (example: Betts and the Dodgers). As it stands now, the Mets are far behind the Braves n terms of MLB talent, organizational depth and front office talent. The Marlins are also in better shape due to the young pitching talent and commitment to a long-range plan. There are no shortcuts in MLB.
Right on the money. Great post.
Cey Hey: your first paragraph says it all. I wish I could get Met fans (not to mention the organization) to understand that.
Only thing I’d add is that there are going to be major financial issues in the coming offseason for the Mets as well. And that’s true even if Cohen allows a payroll in the range of the Dodgers
Most everyone they’d like to keep is either a Free Agent or needing a healthy Arbitration raise. Yet they have 128 million (135 tax) committed to merely 7 guys, and the list is not all that impressive (deGrom, Lindor, Carrasco, Walker, McCann, May, and of course Cano)
They will need to get creative just to keep most of this team together; a team that is currently below 500. Or maybe they instead choose to part ways with big names who have faults, but that does little more than open up more holes that would need to be filled in Free Agency.
The front office has a big task ahead of them juggling salaries and needs, yet at this point the team doesn’t even know who will be in said front office
darkstar61, the task becomes more difficult should deGrom not be good to go in 2022. It’s why they shouldn’t put all their eggs in the basket of contending in 2022. If it doesn’t work out, a long dry spell will ensue with no end in sight.
Team Beane hire him!
Why would they want to leave?
No chance of winning it all there
Lol Mets be the wrong place to go to fix that
A’s have a chance every year. They only need to win it once and that whole, “they’re not built to win it all” narrative nonsense goes to crap.
Probably to work in a stadium with an operational sewer system.
It’s just not the stadium, it’s the whole city of Oakland.
Larry David's Joe Pepitone Jersey
Yeah, but what about getting rid of Alderson? Giving him fewer baseball ops responsibilities isn’t solving the issue of having him as the face of the front office following this season’s laundry list of embarrassments and failures.
And I’m all for aiming high with these type of hires, but the reality is that they’re probably going to run into the same problem as last offseason. Teams are protective of their front office talent & I think there are legitimate questions over whether Cohen will bring in someone who would truly put their stamp on the organization.
Alderson & Rojas need to be sent packing. I can’t believe this is even debatable. I don’t think Theo or others will be interested in working with those two. The culture is so toxic the coaches, training and medical staff, scouts, and most of the roster needs to be overturned. LOL
Could compensation for them be discussed or do they just leave for another team?
all in the suit that you wear
I wonder if guys like Theo Epstein and Beane might wait until after the new collective bargaing agreement is done before making a big move. Might be some things they want to see shake out like new luxury tax thresholds.
Doesn’t make sense for Beane to go to the Mets … if he wanted to go to a bottom tier low class organization, then I guess the Mets are perfect. Otherwise, why not say in literally any other position in baseball and be happy. Better yet, feel like you aren’t trash on earth labeling yourself a met 😉
I am sure going to enjoy seeing the Braves knocked out in the playoffs.
Only team with a losing record against teams playing over 500.
They only made it in playoffs in the worst division in baseball
They choked against the Dodgers; wonder how many stupid Brave fans actually thought they were going to win! 🙂
Beane is the most overrated GM in the game. Other than last year’s Covid season, his team hasn’t won a playoff series since Moneyball was published.
Fever Pitch Guy
Oakland had the highest payroll in MLB back in 1990.
Then Alderson got into Sabermetrics in 1993, and Beane became assistant GM after that season and then GM in 1997.
Not coincidentally, the Oakland Athletics are the only AL team to have not won an LCS game after 1992.
And there’s only one MLB team that has gone longer than Oakland without winning an LCS game, that’s the Reds.
Moneyball is a farce.
If you’re team is consistently winning and making it to the playoffs, would you really rather have a lot of down years and maybe one or two years of deeper into the playoffs? It sucks for their fans that they’ve had such bad luck but seriously I’d be a proud fan for how much winning they’ve done.
winning in the regular season is great, but i cant see how one cant long for the halcyon days when Vida Blue was mowing dudes down.
Fever Pitch Guy
Vin, you’ve asked the right guy that question. As a Red Sox fan I’ve endured FIVE LAST PLACE FINISHES over the last 9 years. From 2012-2018 they finished first or last EVERY SINGLE SEASON. But I’ve also enjoyed two world championships during that same time span.
Would I swap the five last place finishes for postseason appearances, if it meant having to remove the two championships and having no World Series appearances during the 9 years? Absolutely not. Those championships were worth the last place finishes.
Getting back to Oakland, I wouldn’t call ELEVEN consecutive postseason failures “bad luck”. Every other AL team has won at least 1 LCS game over the past 19 years. Do you realize how hard it is to NOT win an LCS game for 19 years?
I think the weakness of the AL West has more to do with Oakland making the postseason so many times than anything else.
Seattle hasn’t won more than 89 games since 2003 and has won more than 93 games only once in their history.
Texas has won more than 91 games just once since 2013.
Angels have won more than 95 games just three times since 2005.
And prior to 2017 the Astros never won more than 86 games while in the AL.
It’s easy to make the postseason when your division is that bad.
Mets despite their payroll have not been to the playoffs since 2016 losing the WC game. Last playoff win was 2015 in the WS. You are worried about what Oakland has done when the Mets having all that money have done nothing.
Fever Pitch Guy
TJECK, having a very high payroll doesn’t guarantee getting to the WS.
And having a very low payroll doesn’t guarantee you can’t get to the WS.
That was my point.
BTW – When the Mets went to the WS in 2015, they had a very low payroll … bottom third of all the MLB teams, and only $15M more than Oakland.
@Fever I wouldn’t say it was so much Alderson and sabermetrics.
Haas owned the team from 1980 to 1995 they owned Levi’s money was no issue when they owned the team. He was born in S.F. And loved the A’s!! He passed away September 1995. Team sold right after. Best owners they ever had!
And now we have the opposite Fisher a BILLIONAIRE one of the richest families in America that wanted to cut money for minor leagues during the pandemic! Absolute scum!
Fever Pitch Guy
skip I complete agree about ownership, although Schott/Hofmann also were quite cheap. They wasted no time slashing payroll after Haas passed away.
I think if anything their biggest downfall has been lack of fundamentals and instinct. I remember one postseason series against my Sox, the Athletics made several blunders on the basepaths and in the field. Some things just don’t show up in statistics.
The “small market” argument just doesn’t hold water. They used to have the biggest payroll in MLB! And several low-payroll teams have gone farther in the postseason than Oakland, look no further than the Rays.
It blows me away that there are still people in 2021 who think Moneyball is a ‘farce’. What do you think the Rays use? What do you think won the Red Sox multiple World Series? What do you think the Dodgers use? ‘Moneyball’ (ie, identifying market inefficiencies via Sabermetrics and exploiting them) has been so successful that almost every single team in the league employs it. It’s successful. It’s real. If you walked into any MLB front office and told them Moneyball was a ‘farce’, they’d call you a buffoon and laugh at you.
And to rag on the As simply because they haven’t won a pennant is about as dumb and shallow as it gets. Success isn’t measured simply by rings, unless you’re a fan who pays no attention to the regular season and just shows up for the playoffs. The As have won far more games than many other teams who have outspent them since Beane arrived and they’ve done it by constantly trying to get ahead of the curve.
Sorry this is so ornery but my God, the ignorance is astounding.
Fever Pitch Guy
rct, there is nothing more ignorant than to assume others are ignorant simply because you don’t understand or comprehend what the others are saying.
I was around my team when they began utilizing a statistical consultant named Mike Gimbel, I’m talking mid-90’s here. Chances are you’ve never even heard of him, let alone are familiar with the role he played.
I was also around when they hired Bill James as a consultant, a role he retained for 17 years until he foolishly Tweeted players aren’t important because they are not the game and are easily replaceable. Stat geeks have never been known for having common sense.
One of the reasons Moneyball was a farce is because Oakland’s success at that time was primarily due to having three of the best starting pitchers in the game.
Do you even know who I’m talking about?
Their names are Hudson, Mulder and Zito.
So let’s look at that Moneyball 2002 season, shall we?
Oakland finished 8th out of 14 teams in RPG, just slightly above the 4.81 league average.
How did they do pitching? Led the league in ERA, of course,
Zito won the Cy with a 2.75 ERA
Hudson had a 2.98 ERA
Mulder, the prior year’s Cy runnerup, had a 3.47 ERA
And oh yeah, a juiced-up Tejada won MVP putting up similar numbers to what he had in the past
ANY team with Zito, Mulder, Hudson and Tejada would have done just as well if not better that year.
Here’s something to ponder: You’re right, every team does utilize statistics. So then how does any one team have an advantage over another?
Is it based on the size of the analytics department?
Well lookie here, this shows the Yankees have the most analysts in MLB as of 2018 with 15. How did that work out for them?
Better yet, look who has the 2nd-fewest number of analysts in MLB?
That’s right, YOUR Oakland Athletics have JUST THREE!!!
Yeah, silly me to rag on a team for being the ONLY one in the league to have not won an LCS game in 19 freakin’ years! Who cares that Oakland can’t win under Beane, he’s still the greatest executive ever and Oakland has been the greatest team in MLB since 2002!! Yeah nice logic there buddy.
I’ve already documented several teams with small payrolls that have gone farther than Oakland has under Beane. Stop making excuses, payroll is not the issue. Understanding how to build a championship caliber team is the problem, Beane doesn’t know how.
I’m not misunderstanding anything. You are saying that ‘Moneyball is a farce’. You are supremely ignorant in saying that and you appear to think that only the Oakland As utilize it because you are wholly ignorant about what Moneyball is. Moneyball has been such a successful baseball philosophy that almost every team in the league utilizes it. Google Theo Epstein’s thoughts on Moneyball. Google Andrew Freidman’s. You have literally no idea what you’re talking about.
And I’m not even going to address your arguments about whether or not the As have been successful under Beane because I don’t agree with your criteria (which appears to be ‘winning an LCS game’) for what success in baseball is. For me, success in baseball means winning baseball games, and the As won a ton of games despite being outspent by the majority of the teams in the league. Like it or not, spending definitely correlates with winning in baseball and the As were/are an outlier in that correlation. You are free to google ‘does spending correlate with winning mlb’ if you disagree.
Fever Pitch Guy
You know what type of people ignore a whole bunch of facts presented to them? People like you who can’t admit they are wrong.
For everyone else, here is an EXCELLENT article that details why Moneyball is a farce.
An excerpt from that great article:
“The real problem with Moneyball, however, is not Lewis’s failure to understand baseball history. It’s his failure to see what was going on right in front of his and Beane’s eyes in 2002.
In their book, The Beauty of Short Hops: How Chance and Circumstance Confound the Moneyball Approach to Baseball, Sheldon Hirsch and Alan Hirsch point out perhaps the biggest hole in Lewis’s analysis. They write that Moneyball distorts the reason for Oakland’s success.
The team thrived primarily because of superb pitching. During its turn of post-season appearances, the A’s were second to third in the league in fewest runs allowed, whereas in some of these seasons, they finished in the bottom half in runs scored. At the heart of the pitching staff were three dominant starters: Mark Mulder, Tim Hudson, and Barry Zito. All three were early-round draft picks, highly scouted, and well regarded—Mulder and Zito were selected in the top ten of their respective drafts.
This was hardly a case of Beane’s spotting sleepers because of nuanced numbers. Indeed, Michael Lewis does not suggest that sabermetrics had anything to do with Beane drafting the three studs who led Oakland to greatness. Indeed, he virtually ignores them. Lewis devoted a few paragraphs to the Big Three (making the strained claim that Beane appreciated them for quirky reasons), quickly dropping them and transitioning to an entire chapter on … Chad Bradford.”
Billy Beane is not the GM of the Oakland A’s, David Forest is. Beane is the Executive VP of Baseball Operations and has been since 2016. He hasn’t been involved in day-to-day operations of the team in years. Further, Beane has an ownership stake in the Oakland A’s most forget this fact and it precludes any notion of Beane just jumping ship. He’s have to be bought out of his ownership stake or otherwise be relieved of his shares in the A’s.
Fever Pitch Guy
More from the Atlantic article:
Each year Oakland demonstrated that they had the talent to win more games than the big guys, but each time they couldn’t play the “small ball” required to clinch the key games that would have given them the series. You can call it a crapshoot, but all this is reflective of talents that Beane was largely indifferent to, namely fielding and base running, the kind of small things that get overlooked when a general manager is obsessed with large concepts like on-base percentage. And yet they are skills that don’t require a great deal of money to work on.
Sports Illustrated’s Tom Verducci wrote in 2003 that “There are real reasons why the Athletics don’t get it down in October, and they have nothing to do with shooting craps. Beane’s teams don’t catch the ball well enough … and, as one Oakland source put it, ‘We’re the worst base running team in the league.'”
Crap shoot? Perhaps, but the first front office official in baseball to study baseball statistics had, perhaps, a better explanation: “Luck,” said the legendary Branch Rickey, a full half-century before Beane, “is the residue of design.”
Curiously, Beane has been given a free pass by baseball writers for his team’s wretched postseason performance. Even more curious is another problem with Beane’s Oakland A’s that has gone almost complete unnoted. Front offices all over the major leagues have been sharply criticized for wearing blinders on the subject of performance enhancing drugs, yet drug use by the A’s in the Moneyball era has drawn practically no attention from anyone, especially Michael Lewis.
We now know now that their best player and the 2002 American League MVP, Miguel Tejada, was on steroids from 2001-2003—he’s admitted it. We don’t know if Jeremy Giambi was doing anything more potent than marijuana at this time, though he later said he used anabolic steroids similar to those his brother Jason admitted to using in both Oakland and New York. We know that reserve outfielder/third baseman Adam Piatt dealt drugs when he was with Oakland from 2000-2003 (there even copies of two checks Tejada wrote him for the PEDs).
It certainly isn’t as if there no red flags for Beane to notice. The leaders of the A’s 1988-1990 AL pennant winning teams, Jose Canseco, the self-proclaimed godfather of steroids, and Mark McGwire were rumored to taking some kind of steroids for years. Canseco was back on the A’s in 1997 while Beane was an assistant GM. Perhaps in 2002, when Lewis was writing Moneyball, too little was known about PEDs, but why is there nothing concerning the revelations of drug abuse on the team in subsequent editions?
Glad I don’t pay for the Athletic. Their articles seem like a bunch of asinine old school BS unsubstantiated by anything but the memories and assumptions of anti intellectual knuckle draggers.
Fever Pitch Guy
Too bad you’re not familiar with the sources they utilize in writing their superb articles.
You never heard of Tom Verducci, eh?
“Sports Illustrated’s Tom Verducci wrote in 2003 that “There are real reasons why the Athletics don’t get it done in October, and they have nothing to do with shooting craps. Beane’s teams don’t catch the ball well enough … and, as one Oakland source put it, ‘We’re the worst base running team in the league.’”
What’s your point? Verducci. Big deal. I read all that above. Who cares? He’s wrong.
Fever Pitch Guy
Me: Provided mountains of facts supported by stats, quotes and logic
You: “Big deal. Who cares. He’s wrong. BS. Knuckledragger.”
Look, I understand you’re probably some high school kid who loves numbers and bought the whole Moneyball myth hook, line, and sinker. No worries dude, it’s easy for people like you to not know the truth growing up in the 2000’s when so many have brainwashed you into thinking Beane is God and Fangraphs is the Bible.
I like numbers too! The difference is when I express a viewpoint, I back it up. You don’t, because you can’t. It’s all good, though. Baby steps..
The irony for the Mets is Lindor might be their downfall. If his influence is significant enough to bring back Baez, then the Mets are making a mistake.
Change your name again, Ian? Doomandgloom already taken? At any rate, did the DBacks ever make the NLCS with MadBum? Maybe the mistake would be if anyone took your baseball advice.
I don’t know…a few days ago I said the Braves should remove Albies from leadoff and put Soler instead. Apparently, Snit read my message and he did exactly that.
As for MadBum, I know you only have MadBum to use against me, but as I said before, who knows what might have happened if he was on the mound last year for Braves. Whether you like it or not, the Braves are not winning anything now or in the future with the current roster.
Also, time to lay off Bum. He no-hit the Braves this season and has a chance to start a Braves collaspe tomorrow.
Yeah! It’s only MadBum’s 2nd worst season of his career in 2021, after 2020
He’s definitely earned the benefit of the doubt. Clueless
clueless about what? I wasn’t the one who brought him up. Some of you truly need help. What did he do? Burn your house down?
@Don’tComeBacktoATLFreeman I’m a Phillies fan who dislikes the Braves, and yet I’m a better Braves fan than you. How can you possible be so negative after years of proven success? Braves pounced on your beloved Mad Bum early today too.
what success? Worthless division titles that amounted to first-round exits every season other than last year where they beat the….Marlins?
Haha, beloved? I moved on from Bum..apparently, some of you didn’t. The Braves apparently didn’t pounce enough as their collapse is still imminent. Then again, is it really a collapse? They have been a .500 team all year. I’m not looking at this season and end all be all though. This season and how they approach the off-season is enough proof for me to know this team does not care. Then again, they were “1” game away from a WS but did nothing in the off-season other than sign Morton. Sadly, that wasn’t enough for the Braves to go all in. They are paying the price now.
Multiple division titles in a row isn’t success? The mighty Dodgers dynasty has only won 1 World Series. You cannot bank success on a WS title. The Nats got one and dismantled their team. There is so much skill, luck and timing in winning it all. Success in baseball is building a perennial contender, something the Braves have done. Enjoy it while it lasrs. It could be a lot worse and will be before you know it.
Fever Pitch Guy
If the division titles are in a weak division like the NL East, no it’s not success. All it means is you’re better than 4 other weak teams.
I would argue that outside of this year the NLE hasn’t bedn all that weak.
How much would the Met’s give the A’s for such moves?
No matter who the Mets get get for POBO he will be criticized by someone. I just hope they do something they haven’t done in a LONG time, make a smart hire. Only then will the narrative change.
There’s your boring comment of the day.
Not boring, but 100% true.
Beane will have no interest.
What about Epstein? Mets have a large payroll and few ws rings in a large market. How’s the area around the park? Theo is somewhat credited for rebuilding Fenway area and Wrigley into diznee land.
why in god’s name would theo epstein want to work for steve cohen?
Insert [anyones name who has an ounce of self respect]
Fever Pitch Guy
dasit, Theo prefers working for owners who have lots of money and are willing to spend it on players.
The Mets have an owner who has a lot of money and is willing to spend it on players.
Going into the season many raved that Mets were the best and Sandy Alderson (or whatever his name is) was a genius. How did that turn out?
I never remember anyone on this board saying Sandy was a genius but yes there were die hard Mets fans who thought they were the best; I was not one from the start.
At some point, the Mets need to hire a manager based on real managing experience, not race or legacy.
Then back that up with rehiring Chili Davis or some other successful MLB hitter who actually understands PHYSICAL coaching, not just computers.
Rojas has real managing experience. They play the same game in the minors. A lot of moves are predetermined by analytics before the game as well as in X will pitch to Y but not Z, etc.
Rojas is in way over his head; btw how is that analytics crap working out for the Mets? I am an engineer and I would rather see old school managing and not pitching to a guy because of some righty lefty metric when the guy batting behind him is hitting 220 and the guy you pitched to, Rojas did this and cost us a game, is hot and batting over 300?
I would love to see Billy Ball in NY but unfortunately writers write to write as they need to fill up columns; not saying a broken clock isn’t right twice a day but I will believe it when I see it.
If Rojas is back next year then I am not and I am a long time Mets fan.
Your comment here is all over the map. First, to call Rojas overly reliant on analytics is wrong. For example, Dom Smith has a rather pronounced reverse split (paradoxically batting far better against lefties), yet to watch Rojas manage, you’d never know it. And this is basic analytics that he’s screwing up.
Second, to denigrate ‘that analytics crap’ and say you want to see ‘old school managing’ followed immediately by ‘I would love to see Billy ball in NY’ makes me think that you don’t know what ‘Billy ball’ is.
My understanding is that “Billy ball” was named after Billy Martin when he managed the A’s and is characterized by “manufacturing” runs with smart base running and situational hitting.
Fever Pitch Guy
Rod you are 100% correct. Billy Ball also was characterized by aggressive baserunning, including lots of stolen bases.
And who doesn’t value stolen bases?
Those overly obsessed with sabermetrics.
Many of today’s problems can be laid at the feet of technology, and the current state of baseball is a good example. Analytics are good to an extent but not when they create a situation where strikeouts are doubled and base running skills atrophy. Fans like to see great defense, but they’re seeing less of it now with all the strikeouts.
To point out Rojas and one example in Smith does not tell the tale; he is “overly reliant on analytics” in 99.9% of his other moves.
I am going on reading daily sports articles that point this out; not just my read.
Secondly you are right I need to clarify my Billy Ball comment; there are 2 parts to Billy Ball:
1) One is on field analytics; which they have already in NY
2) What I like is the evaluation of players to fit a low budget market and getting fair results. And with the Mets overpaying for Lindor and needing possibly a whole new rotation next year then yes that is what I would like to see to stay under the luxury tax; that part of Billy Ball.
Fever Pitch Guy
Sounds like you’re talking about Billy Beane Ball, instead of the original Billy Ball which was named after Billy Martin.
What the heck is “PHYSICAL coaching”? This is some serious talk radio hot take here.
A story about nothing. Beane backed out of an opportunity to take the Boston GM job a decade ago. He is a California native – and I think hesitant about the challenges of being in the brightest spotlights
Maybe Billy Beane isn’t crazy about moving to Las Vegas with the A’s.
Fly over fan
Pretty sure he started his career in the Mets organization.
Billy Beane does not want to work for Cohen.Beane wants total control and Cohen will not give it to him.They are going to get some other in house yes man.This team will never win
anything as long as Cohen is the owner.
No current discussions between Dodgers, Luka Doncic
This is a completely fictitious and bogus article. Clearly the writer is stirring a stick for simple reaction. I guess it is better to make something up than to write nothing. You guys bought into it hook, line and sinker.
Fever Pitch Guy
The writer made it clear that Rosenthal suggested the Mets should try to acquire Beane, and Martino reported the Mets would consider Beane.
So there most definitely was a legit reason for writing this article.
Just stirring my own stick… isn’t that why we are here?
Fever Pitch Guy
Oh hey Jerry! Didn’t know it was you, see I really don’t pay attention to who posts what,
How many Beane counters do the Mets need? 😉
Man, I wish I had inside information on these executives like some of you guys.
I’m sure these comments aren’t solely based on the click bait that media puts out.
Your remark makes me wonder how many (if any) current players or front office personnel are stealth commenters here. I also wonder if any current MLB players or team employees are making bets on Draft Kings and other online sports gambling outfits.
Cohens_Wallet you must be related or him because you again are bashing fans what is what you do on twitter.You are a wanna be Steinbrenner.You have no clue on who to hire
except one of your cronies like Alderson.Keep up the good work LOL
They can change the GM, but unless they also change the manager, the hitting coach, the medical staff, and re-think their entire organizational approach to player development (particularly as it relates to hitting), it’s going to be the same old song and dance. Almost every single hitter they have underperformed this year. That’s not coincidence, it’s bad coaching and bad managing and a bad overall approach to hitting.
Maybe Cohen should ask the Rays how much they want for their whole front office.
I just want the Mets to sign a GM soon so the David Sterns rumors will cease and I can rest easy knowing he will stay in MIL
Beane is giving two thumbs down to the idea.
Fever Pitch Guy
I think Billy simply doesn’t want to go somewhere where there’s expectations of winning.
Nobody cares if Oakland keeps losing, that’s why he stays there.
Why risk ruining an unjustified reputation of greatness that Brad Pitt worked so hard for Billy to get?
Steve Cohen needs to hire Mike Hill. If he needs a reference, I know Jefferey Loria and David Samson will give him a great one. I can see it now.
Cohen: “Hi Jeff, Dave, I want to know about Mike Hill as a GM.”
Samson: “He’s a team guy. Cooperates with ownership. Ignores all of our faults. Best enabling Yes Man in the game. Ask Jeff”
:Cohen: “Jeff, is that true.”
Loria: “Yes. He kept the public face of support for the organization after many many many bad trades and signings. He also never questioned when I did some of my charity work that haters said I should have used the money to build up the team’s payroll…like when I donated $25 million to Yale to assure that the downtrodden students had a safe campus to study the same year I cut the Marlins payroll. Mike is awesome. He’ll support you well and retweet everything you post.”
Bashing fans, LOL
Last time they approached him it didn’t work out too well for him.
Beane famously turned down that Red Sox gig. I’m curious why at this point he’d accept a position with the Mets. He has countless interests including those outside of baseball. I suppose he could just like the challenge.