The offseason has already begun for 13 American League teams, with plenty of speculation about what some contenders and would-be contenders might have planned for winter moves. The latest buzz from the AL…
- The Mariners seemed poised for their most aggressive offseason in years, and The Athletic’s Corey Brock and MLBTR’s own Steve Adams took a look at the potential shape of Seattle’s next additions. The proposal is a major signing (i.e. Marcus Semien) and then a few other prominent but somewhat lower-level free agents (such as Anthony DeSclafani, Jonathan Villar, Alex Wood), augmented with some trades to help bench depth and left-handed bullpen depth. It remains to be seen whether or not the M’s will target any of these specific players, yet an offseason like this would certainly make Seattle a better team in 2022, and still leave payroll room for any other upgrades at the trade deadline.
- Semien’s future was also one of several Blue Jays-related topics covered by The Toronto Star’s Gregor Chisholm in his latest reader mailbag, with Chisholm opining that both Semien and Robbie Ray will be playing elsewhere in 2022. Should Semien leave, the Jays could address the hole at second base simply by moving their third base candidates (Cavan Biggio and Santiago Espinal) over to the keystone, and then acquiring a new third baseman. In response to another question, Chisholm believes the Jays will probably hold off on extension talks with Teoscar Hernandez simply because the team is prioritizing more near-term moves, like adding more salary this winter and exploring a long-term deal with Jose Berrios. Hernandez is still controlled through the 2023 season, and the Blue Jays could be content to just go year-to-year with Hernandez since outfield replacements are comparatively easy to find, even if few hitters at any position have equaled Hernandez’s production over the last two-plus seasons.
- Speaking of finding outfielders, the Indians have long been looking for some stability on the grass, and the Tribe seemed to solidify at least one position when they acquired Myles Straw from the Astros at the trade deadline. That leaves the corner outfield spots still to be addressed, and “since the summer months, the front office has fixated on consolidating its prospect capital in an attempt to land an established outfielder in a trade,” The Athletic’s Zack Meisel writes. Cleveland would likely prefer to work out that trade sooner rather than later, as November 19 is the deadline for teams to set their 40-man rosters in advance of the Rule 5 Draft, and the Tribe have a surplus of players who might require 40-man placement. Whether or not an early trade can be found, however, isn’t clear, as Meisel notes that some around baseball feel teams will generally hold back on any major moves until there is more clarity about the next collective bargaining agreement.
What ever happened to Oscar Mercado?
.240/.296/.390 career slash line.
flash in the pan for part of a season
He was terrible last year, and he was bad enough this year to make you think that he’s closer to the hitter he was in 2020 than the hitter he was in 2019.
He plays good defense and runs well, but the Indians have a million of those guys and need one that can actually hit. He can be a solid 4th outfielder for someone, but more likely a team like the Rays that especially values outfield defense.
Reality.
Oscar who???
Mércado is one of a handful of 4th OFer types the Tribe trots out there and hopes to pass off as a legit starter and he just isn’t. Throw a handful at the wall and hope something sticks.
truth. And this article serves as the annual lie from the team that they’re going to find an “established outfielder.” Which means a low-cost veteran that no one else wants as a starter.
Yes, they’ll go shopping in the scratch and sent section and try to strike it rich with a reclamation project.
Oscar Mercado, career OPS .686
Myles Straw, career OPS .684
Mercado has better defensive numbers.
So if the Indians didn’t like Mercado, I can’t fathom why they think they have a starting everyday CF in Myles Straw.
The Guardians saw Straw’s numbers at .285/.360/.380 (.740 OPS) in over 250 plate appearances.. Pretty solid numbers for a well above average to elite defensive CF’er..
Two more like Straw would be nice..
I’d be very happy with Straw parading CF. Good lead off. The rest of the platoon is so hit and miss. Bradley Zimmer found some power this year. Just no consistency. Harsh reality of small market teams
Fans rushed him to the bigs and said the organization was manipulating his service time and like every other time, the fans proved to be wrong.
AAAA player
The Mariners should copy at least some of what the White Sox have done the last couple of years, sign your OWN best PLAYERS and spread the money around and NO BIG TICKET, TEN YEAR DEALS that bloat the payroll and tie up the team’s financial flexibility going forward.
Of course that approach only works if you have players that you are confident are worthy of long term extensions. So far the Mariners are mostly still dealing with potential rather than achievement. Seattle’s excitement is understandable. A 90 win season came ahead of schedule and they have a very impressive collection of talent throughout their system. However, I think they should look at the Padres and Phillies as cautionary tales. Give the talent a chance to translate into production so you know for sure what you have. There is nothing wrong with adding pieces this winter, but a Giants’ type approach seems more prudent than a full on spending spree.
It’s a fair point and I think the reality is that finding that perfect balance.
For long-term cost reasons, trying to lock in young guys who are still mostly long-term high-ceiling potential, For stability, you need to pay out for short-term low-floor potential
We haven’t seen yet truly what Dipoto is inclined toward. Before 2016, he was mostly trying to buy marginal wins and since he’s been more about setting the foundation (ie: getting to here). There have been indications that he wants to aggressively lock up his kiddos longterm (eg: Evan White’s ML contract before reaching MLB), but will be shrewd about it (eg: Kelenic being told that if he signed a deal similar to White’s, he’d have been up sooner).
Whether he would go out for a Machado-type (just entering prime age, likely-to-be ultra star for 7+ more years to longterm) or even Cano-type (just past prime, likely-to-be superstar for a couple or few more years, but could be flipped “one year early” or “just in time” to longterm), we don’t know at the moment.
There are no Tim Anderson’s, Eloy Jimenez’, or Luis Robert’s on the Mariners at this moment and the one player they did lock up long term before he played a game (Evan White) can’t hit Major League pitching.
I would trust DiPoto has some sort of direction he is going without trying to emulate another organization
But they do have a excellent lead off hitter in JP Crawford. Haniger and France. And I realize it’s a small sample size but Kelenic’s offense in September was as advertised once he got out of his own way. Kyle Lewis is good hitter if that knee holds up. And the #2 overall prospect Rodriguez is ready to contribute. Torrens showed he belongs on a MLB roster. That’s 7 pretty good offensive players. Couple of solid bats in free agency or trade and the M’s will be legitimate!
Good players but not one’s you look to lock up long term except for maybe Kelenic. We heard lots of trade speculation about Haniger and i expect that to continue. I like Lewis but am concerned he may be an Aaron Hicks type, have one good season, get a big new contract and then disappear. France is a man without a position. Torrens is interesting and either last year was an outlier or a preview of things to come
Disagree on France. He was top 5 on defense at 1st base. Don’t think there in any hurry to bring White up til he learns to hit. 2nd base, 1 outfield bat and catcher plus a #1 or #2 sp in free agency or trade and they are set. I will admit if they are counting on Lewis, Kelenic and Rodriguez to carry the team then that’s foolish thinking until they actually do it. And we can’t really look at run differential for this team specifically. As someone mentioned earlier, most of that was caused by 2 series. Padres and Houston.
Thats good! Cause we could sure use a “Yasmani Grandal!”
Excellent comment, Benjamin560, player by player.
That is how I see things.
Toro, likeable as he is sometimes, still doesn’t belong on a championship team, and Seager might still have a year of good defense and lots of RBIs left in him, also might not..
Haniger, I am not sure about.
But that stuff is where Trader Jerry comes into the picture.
I am expecting Oakland and Houston to fade a bit next season, also. And there the Mariners will be, taking over the lead from day one.
No use second-guessing Jerry Dipoto, or trying to guess who he will get to round out this Mariners team. team. Too many possibilities. But he has his staff working on it all the time, and they all have access to things us fans never thought of.
My main interest is in what happens to Kikuchi. The guy’s had it, and will never again be of any use to anybody.
Time to bite the bullet and move on.
I think M’s should sign both Ray and Semien. No need to explain why on signing Semien. But Ray would give the M’s a top of the rotation Starter for years while allowing Flexon and Marco to finish out their contracts. Just enough time for their young Pitchers to develope into 3,4,5 Starters. 3 being Logan Gilbert, 4 Kirby, 5 Marsh. All we would need to do is resign Marco/Flexon or sign a #2 in 2022 or 2023.
2022 Rotation = 1. Ray 2. Flex 3. Marco 4. Gilbert 5. Kirby
2023 Rotation – 1. Ray 2. ?. 3. Gilbert 4. Kirby 5. Hancock/Marsh
We have some trade bait in one of our Top Pitchers to go and grab another bat.
This rotation is good enough to contend in 2022 and beyond
I’m not sure Robbie Ray is a top of the rotation starter. However, if you are unhappy with Marco Gonzalez, the Cards would probably take him back at the right price.
Undo the trade and send Tyler O’Neill back to the M’s?
MMMM…..I’m going to say no.
…and send Marco back? Not!
I’m perfectly fine with Marco. And I like him. Just don’t know if we will need him after his contract is up. He will cost money and we have a few good arms that should be developed that will cost less and save the team $$$$. He could end up being good trade bait too after next year.
I like Gonzales, just not at the frontend of the rotation.
If the Mariners only sign one “legitimate” player it HAS to be an Ace.
Keeping runs off of the board is paramount, as is consistency, something that no starting pitcher is capable of on this squad.
Sodo do you mean Brash?
Also Flexen is arb eligible after his current contract. Ms have control on him until 2027 if they want.
I do mean Brash. My bad. But take your pic on Brash/Williamson possibly Campbell. It all depends on who develops and steps up. And I like Flex too. But why spend money on pitching if we have it (when ready)? OR we can pay for it and trade our prospects for talent. It’s a great problem to have. Just need to make the right moves.
Resign Marco? He’s signed through 2024 with an option for 2025.
Mercado, Zimmer, Naquin, Chisenhall, Allen, the Indians have struggled to produce MLB quality Outfielders for the better part of a decade now
It’s more than that…….
The Indians have struggled for a number of years now to produce a quality all-around position player.
I’m wondering what happened to their top prospect / can’t miss LH hitting 3B, and Big Bopper Bobby Bradley isn’t. They have to get role players from the Mets, Astros, and Padres as well as guys cut by their teams to field a line-up.
It’s great what they do developing Pitchers, but…….
Lindor, Ramirez, Brantley, Kipnis?
They all came up around 7-8 years ago.
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“The Indians have struggled FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS NOW to produce a quality all-around position player.”
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You remain a cheap-shot ankle-biting troll with a 4th grade reading comprehension level and a fetish to show everyone how smart you are….which you’re not. You’re worse then that Met kid.
So by number of years, you cut it off at an arbitrary number to make your argument? Cute logic, bro.
Are you referring to 3B Nolan Jones? Neither him nor Bradley are looking like super stars, but I think the jury is still out on what they can be.
Have you checked naquins 2021 stats? If you mean with Cleveland absolutely. After he left Cleveland and went to Cincinnati he went off.
Why is MLBTR using the former term and not the new one? Guardians. ugh!!! Terrible Terrible nickname
Unless you understand what “Gardians” mean in the Cle. area.
We’ll get accustomed to it.
I still feel the pain of the 1954 World Series, born and raised in Cleveland. Never heard of the bridge guardians until this name change. I don’t know how that name was chosen, but it’s a marketing disaster.
Right on, basquiat.
This name change is just another new age, teenage, knee-jerk reaction so typical of this “new awareness” that seems to be going around everywhere.
This new Woke stuff is worse than Covid-19.
Nobody ever heard of this bridge guardian stuff.
It’s just so much “stuff”.
The Native Americans I have known were never offended by the Indians.name. Some frowned on the Crazy Warrior logo as maybe going a step too far funwise, but most of us, Indian or not, have had other things to worry about.
Never offended by Atlanta’s Tomahawk Chop either. Lots of fun there for all hands.
You misread my post. Not defending the retirement of the Indians name. I find it sad that Cleveland doesn’t have something more distinctive about it that would inspire a team mascot or logo than an obscure architectural detail on a bridge.
I hear ya, basquiat. Agreed.
I do over-react sometimes, I know.
Lindor (at least in Cleveland) and Jose Ramirez are solid players but to your point 2 is a drop in the bucket against the many players they have brought up
The problem is partially that they keep sending off their position prospects. You could field an entire team of guys that went on to be productive major leaguers in that time that were traded, DFAd, exposed in Rule V, or let go.
C: Eric Haase, Francisco Mejia
1B: Jesus Aguilar, Yandy Diaz
2B: Joey Wendle
SS: Willi Castro
3B: Gio Urshela
OF: Clint Frazier, Greg Allen, Anthony Santander, Jordan Luplow
IF: Erik Gonzalez, Sam Haggerty
That outfield is still bad. But those are all MLB players and some of them quite good. In most of those cases it was a result of guys being blocked by quality players (Aguilar and Diaz by Carlos Santana and/or Edwin Encarnacion, Ursh and Wendle by Jose and Kipnis). So it’s not that their farm hasn’t produced anything, it’s that they’re currently paying for a bunch of those decisions because they don’t have ready replacements.
Some of those guys listed had to be dealt like Frazier going for Miller which put them as close to a world championship as you can get. Gio was given every chance in the world and never put it together and don’t in Toronto either, somehow he found it in NY. Castro was dealt from depth for a need and that ended up being a horrible deal but worth the chance at the time. Aguilar didn’t look like a legit #1 and has had spotty production since then, at best he is what they’ll get from Bradley now. Mejia was overrated and again dealt from depth to plug holes. Their recent trading history has been pretty damn good.
And at least they can fall back on the 12 or so middle infielders they have in their top 15 prospects… :/
Hmm, it would be interesting to see if the Jays and Indians match up in a trade featuring Teoscar Hernandez and Jose Ramirez. More names and money would be involved, but, it would seem to plug holes that both teams have.
I wondered how long it would take to get Ramirez proposals even though the article talked about trading prospects to ease their 40 man roster issues not adding more prospects.
I’d guess Gurriel rather than Teoscar for the simple fact that Teoscar’s salary is already advancing quite a bit through arbitration and Gurriel is locked up on a dirt cheap contract. Also, Cleveland writer’s had suggested Gurriel was the major league piece they were keyed in on in a potential Lindor deal. However, as much as Ramirez is exactly what Toronto needs, they are a team that really values team culture and I can’t imagine a dugout without both Hernandez and Gurriel there. I think Toronto will more likely look to free agency or trades with teams who prefer prospect returns.
Seattle needs offense, Semien is a good choice but they also have other needs.The run differential pretty much says this is really a .500 ball club who won a ton of close games. Very similar to the Red Sox, but Boston is a step or two better. Semien, Haniger, and Seager is a very good core group. Get a couple contact guys too and this team should be able to keep up with Oakland. Still won’t be good enough for Houston though who gets back Verlander.
You can cover that run differential over 5-6 games so it’s not the most accurate stat to use when looking at the Mariners potential going forward. Lewis should be back next year, joined by Julio for his rookie season. We need to pick up a good 2b/3b, catcher, and 1-2 good starters and we’ll give the Astros’ a run for their money, no prob.
Run differential has it’s issues, but this is a flawed argument. They could cover it in a few games…or it could get worse. It is what it is after 162 games, but just discounting that for Sea and not making the exact same concession for every other team is just seeing what you want to see.
@ kingbum
Verlander’s a FA
Ray is 2 pitches away from TJ but definitely an ace!
Every pitcher is one throw away from TJ.
I’m losing sleep over thinking of a trade involving Mitch Hanniger to the White Sox for Yohan Moncada. Not sure how the $$ will work out but the Sox have Vaugn who can replace Moncada at third. Moncada gives the M’s a switch hitting 3b with a decent OBP who is still has a lot of talent to show. He’s still in his prime and his best years are ahead of him. This will fix our 3b problem. Semien at 2b and Moncada at 3b. Thoughts anyone?
No reason why the White Sox would ever do that trade, so you can sleep fine tonight.
Lol! The M’s would have to throw in someone else. I’d be willing to include Tramell.
why have the Mariners not developed a 3rd baseman? They’ve had year after year, 6 of them under Dipoto but nothing to show for it.
Now its going to cost us in treasure, be it cash or players because the thought of Toro over there is not comforting, a down grade on defense and offense.
Who is going to cover the lost production and produce on top of that?
Check their prospects. There are 3 good 3b prospects outside of toro in the system.
They’re going to need way more than just 1 elite signing and a handful of mediocre talent if they’re gonna compete next year. You’re losing 35 HR’s/100 RBI’s and a quality 3rd baseman in Seager. You can’t ignore that. I think they’re still one more season away from truly competing. – 60 run differential and subtracting Seager’s numbers are too difficult to discredit, especially since the team leaned on the lights out bullpen that surprised everyone.
you win 90 games and you can’t compete? That says more about Dipoto than anything.
3-5 more wins cant be had?
If just Gonzales had been competitive in the first half you would have had those extra wins.
It is up to Jerry, does he pull his pants up and go to work or does he go even softer and make moves that confirm it.
IF, that’s the magic word.
IF:
Paxton doesn’t go down
Moore hits his weight
Kicuchi pitches as good in the 2nd half, as the 1st
Murphy hits like he did in ’19
Sheff takes it up a notch
White stays healthy and hits his weight
Bring back Gravemen
Trade for Contreras and Kendrick(cubs)(Contreras and Cal@ catch)
Add a good OBA 2B.
You can’t use 2021’s outcome as the baseline for 2022…whole new season.
When is everyone going to start calling them the Guardians?
Probably never, hopefully…
Not earlier than when the team makes the official announcement that they are the Guardians. It’s still the 2021 season. Just wait 3 more weeks for your nonsense victory lap.
Some people will start calling them the Guardians soon, but to answer your question of when EVERYONE will start calling them that? Never! There will be many that still go watch their beloved Tribe or Indians at the Jake and never acknowledge the forced name changes.
When I saw the name Hernandez in the headline I thought you had news on Keith Hernandez. 😉
Mariner fans really just spend every waking minute dreaming of plans where the M’s do everything but add awesome talent to their ballclub.
I want them to make a MAJOR splash. Both via trade and free agency.
If I’m Jerry D I’m calling the Indians on JRam every day for the next 6 months until they say yes to a trade. I’m signing Semien to play 2B. I’m signing Schwarber to DH. I’m signing a Ray, Rodon, Stroman, Gausman etc as a TOR arm. I want power players – no more fringe guys like Anthony DeSclafani, Jonathan Villar, or Alex Wood unless they’re purely for depth reasons. I’m tired of guys like that being the highlights of an M’s off season.
1. Marcus Semien 2B
2. Ty France 1B
3. Jose Ramirez 3B
4. Kyle Schwarber DH
5. Mitch Haniger RF
6. Jarred Kelenic LF
7. Kyle Lewis CF
8. Murphy/Raleigh C
9. JP Crawford SS
1. Rob Ray
2. Chris Flexen
3. Marco Gonzales
4. Logan Gilbert
5. Alex Wood
Quit messing around.
I like this but, Kyle Lewis isn’t viable in CF. I’ll take schwarber in LF rotating through DH with Kelenic. Kyle Lewis at DH.
I’m thinking if they can’t sign a top-notch free agent SP they’ll acquire someone in a trade. Sign Max Scherzer? Not likely, but the M’s would be fools not to make him a great offer. Why not dream a little? It’s time to go all out. Trade for Ramirez? Sure, but given Cleveland’s poor luck in developing outfielders they might want of ours… but if anyone could acquire Ramirez without giving up any of Rodriguez, Kelenic, Hanjger, Gilbert, Kirby, Hancock… it would be Dipoto. Hot Stove League could be loads of fun this winter!
So in other words Slothcliff, you want something for nothing. Cleveland’s front office runs rings around Dipoto. From 2013 -2020, Cleveland won more games than every other MLB team except the Dodgers and did that on a small market budget. If Cleveland moves Ramirez, which I doubt, i happens, it would cost Dipoto plenty .including Rodriquez or Kelenic as part of the deal.
Seattle would win the offseason with this approach and miss the playoffs like every other team that won the offseason the last 10 years