I like him. Have you seen his minor league stats from before he came up? He was a great hitter throughout the minors and he was a great hitter when he first got to Houston. I know he cooled off later in the year with Seattle but I would give him a chance to settle in with everyday at bats. There’s no reason to assume he won’t hit like he did in AAA.
nothing there screams anything more than bench bat to me. a good one, but a bench bat. take out the 2019 PCL stats (outlier based on juiced ball) and the numbers arent any better.
Max Muncy made his way back thanks to a great year in AAA in 2017. Im not even advocating that Toro isnt a MLB player, just that expecting him to start for a contender at this point is risky.
I’m expecting Gavin Lux to start for the Dodgers 2022 and they will be the favorites next year to win the World series
I see more intrigue than risk in that proclamation
Look at what Preller did last year with Profar and Kim when he had Cronesworth right in his lap. Letting fear rule your world will always catch up in the end, sports or life
Yeah. That was pretty bad. Must have been a hopeful Padres fan that still overvalues Gore despite his collapse. Those two guys couldn’t get Bieber or Ramirez alone, much less both of them. I could see them fetching a decent player with some control but not a Cy Young candidate like Bieber or an MVP candidate like Ramirez. Abrams isn’t proven enough and could still regress. Gore is starting to look like he may not be able to adjust and could just end up being bad. I think Gore will make it to the majors and still could be good but it also wouldn’t shock me if he never develops into a good starter and ends up having to settle for a bullpen role. He did not look good at all in the minors last season. The jump to the majors is so much harder than any other jump. I’ve heard the jump from Rookie ball or low Single A leagues all the way up to AAA is nothing compared to the jump from AAA to the majors. If he can’t pitch well at AAA he will never make it in the majors. He’s going to have to make some kind of serious change to adapt before he gets called up. He’s going to have to do it really soon, too or his stock is going to drop very quickly. Some very highly regarded guys just don’t end up making it. Gore still can but who knows after this season?
Ramirez does nothing for the Padres and for all we know Gore might be as good or better than Bieber. Are Guardians fans that eager to trade him already?
@Rsox: I had high hopes for Gore but even considering him in the same class as Bieber right now would be really overvaluing him. You might not follow Padres minor league stats but there was some hope that the Padres could call Gore up last season with all their starting pitching injuries. It never happened because Gore was pitching terribly in the minors. It looks like he has hit a road block and can’t adjust to higher minor league hitting. If he can’t figure out how get it done in the minors there is no way he will be able to in the majors. A poor minor league pitcher should never realistically be compared to a Cy Young winning MLB pitcher like Bieber. If Bieber stays healthy next season he is my bet to win the Cy Young again. Right now there is nothing to even suggest Gore will be a serviceable AAA pitcher next season. Gore and Bieber are so far apart right now you might as well be saying Matt Harvey might be as good or better than Randy Johnson.
The flameout rate on even the best pitching prospects is so high.
I’m a Jays fan and watching the evolution (or lack there of) of Manoah and Pearson has been something.
Prior to that the Jays had Syndergaard, Aaron Sanchez and Justin Nicolino as their “big three” pitching prospects. And in between Kyle Drabek, Dan Norris and Stroman…. Who was “likely to end up in the bullpen.”
With such a high bust rate you’d think trading them away for more proven commodities would make sense.. but then you think of Manoah and how valuable 7 years of him will be if he keeps up his current level of play.
@Please, Hammer:
You are correct as i don’t follow the Padres minor league stats. I’m also not suggesting Gore is as good as Bieber right now.
To be fair Gore followed a very good 2019 with not pitching at all in 2020. Lots of pitchers struggled or dealt with injuries in 2021 so i wouldn’t write Gore off so quickly yet.
@Rsox: I’m not writing Gore off at all. I really hope he gets it figured out and I think he still can. I was just pointing out that he was so highly touted a year ago and 2021 was nothing but a disaster for him. Once you consider he never even pitched against a major league hitter it makes that disaster look worse. Also, I don’t think that chat question was about Padres fans giving up on Gore. I think it was someone really overvaluing him. He was talking about trading him and another prospect for a Cy Young winner and an MVP candidate who both still have a lot of their prime left. I think a lot of teams should be interested in Gore and Abrams but not at that ridiculous price. He was suggesting the Indians would be willing to give up a pitcher who could be the best pitcher in MLB next season on top of a position player who could win the MVP next season. Both of those players are under cheap control for multiple years. I don’t think anyone is giving up on Gore but a Cy Young winner and an MVP for him and another prospect? Come on.
I’ve never seen Gore pitch. So I had/have no opinion of him.
But people all over these boards – especially Padre fans – have spent 2 or so years writing about how he’d dominate in the major leagues.
I question whether even a one of them saw him pitch against competition. Most here seem to read nonsense about prospects on the Internet, and form opinions. Under an article below a guy is proposing the Phillies trade Harper – a 28 year-old 2-time MVP – for 2 Blue Jays prospects…neither of whom has yet to play a day at the major league level.
Rays because trading Kiermaier would be a salary dump and i doubt you would get the White Sox to pay for both Kiermaier’s incoming salary and Kimbrel’s outgoing salary
im not sure why SEA would want to rely on Toro to start if they can help it. he really isnt proven enough to be relied on imo.
I like him. Have you seen his minor league stats from before he came up? He was a great hitter throughout the minors and he was a great hitter when he first got to Houston. I know he cooled off later in the year with Seattle but I would give him a chance to settle in with everyday at bats. There’s no reason to assume he won’t hit like he did in AAA.
Not saying Toro isn’t who you think he is, but he actually hit better in Seattle (96 OPS+) after the trade than he did in Houston (83 OPS+).
nothing there screams anything more than bench bat to me. a good one, but a bench bat. take out the 2019 PCL stats (outlier based on juiced ball) and the numbers arent any better.
Right.
This entire conversation reminds me of those in 2019 and 2020 about the Braves young 3B. Yeah, he’d never hit.
Amazing how people here can pigeonhole a player in his early 20’s that is trying to get enough reps to adjust to ML play.
what Riley? Riley was a top 100 prospect before if Im correct and had pretty stellar Minors numbers. Toro isnt a good analogy for Riley.
Toro has hit well in the minors and hit pretty well in Seattle after the trade. Given the opportunity to get 500 plate appearances he may surprise you
Nobodies proven enough till they do
I wonder how many Max Muncy careers have been killed based off takes like these?
Good point. Probably a lot more than we think.
Max Muncy made his way back thanks to a great year in AAA in 2017. Im not even advocating that Toro isnt a MLB player, just that expecting him to start for a contender at this point is risky.
I’m expecting Gavin Lux to start for the Dodgers 2022 and they will be the favorites next year to win the World series
I see more intrigue than risk in that proclamation
Look at what Preller did last year with Profar and Kim when he had Cronesworth right in his lap. Letting fear rule your world will always catch up in the end, sports or life
Abrams and gore for jram and Bieber. Who thinks of these proposals
Yeah. That was pretty bad. Must have been a hopeful Padres fan that still overvalues Gore despite his collapse. Those two guys couldn’t get Bieber or Ramirez alone, much less both of them. I could see them fetching a decent player with some control but not a Cy Young candidate like Bieber or an MVP candidate like Ramirez. Abrams isn’t proven enough and could still regress. Gore is starting to look like he may not be able to adjust and could just end up being bad. I think Gore will make it to the majors and still could be good but it also wouldn’t shock me if he never develops into a good starter and ends up having to settle for a bullpen role. He did not look good at all in the minors last season. The jump to the majors is so much harder than any other jump. I’ve heard the jump from Rookie ball or low Single A leagues all the way up to AAA is nothing compared to the jump from AAA to the majors. If he can’t pitch well at AAA he will never make it in the majors. He’s going to have to make some kind of serious change to adapt before he gets called up. He’s going to have to do it really soon, too or his stock is going to drop very quickly. Some very highly regarded guys just don’t end up making it. Gore still can but who knows after this season?
Ramirez does nothing for the Padres and for all we know Gore might be as good or better than Bieber. Are Guardians fans that eager to trade him already?
@Rsox: I had high hopes for Gore but even considering him in the same class as Bieber right now would be really overvaluing him. You might not follow Padres minor league stats but there was some hope that the Padres could call Gore up last season with all their starting pitching injuries. It never happened because Gore was pitching terribly in the minors. It looks like he has hit a road block and can’t adjust to higher minor league hitting. If he can’t figure out how get it done in the minors there is no way he will be able to in the majors. A poor minor league pitcher should never realistically be compared to a Cy Young winning MLB pitcher like Bieber. If Bieber stays healthy next season he is my bet to win the Cy Young again. Right now there is nothing to even suggest Gore will be a serviceable AAA pitcher next season. Gore and Bieber are so far apart right now you might as well be saying Matt Harvey might be as good or better than Randy Johnson.
The flameout rate on even the best pitching prospects is so high.
I’m a Jays fan and watching the evolution (or lack there of) of Manoah and Pearson has been something.
Prior to that the Jays had Syndergaard, Aaron Sanchez and Justin Nicolino as their “big three” pitching prospects. And in between Kyle Drabek, Dan Norris and Stroman…. Who was “likely to end up in the bullpen.”
With such a high bust rate you’d think trading them away for more proven commodities would make sense.. but then you think of Manoah and how valuable 7 years of him will be if he keeps up his current level of play.
So few hit… but when they do the payoff is huge.
@Please, Hammer:
You are correct as i don’t follow the Padres minor league stats. I’m also not suggesting Gore is as good as Bieber right now.
To be fair Gore followed a very good 2019 with not pitching at all in 2020. Lots of pitchers struggled or dealt with injuries in 2021 so i wouldn’t write Gore off so quickly yet.
@Rsox: I’m not writing Gore off at all. I really hope he gets it figured out and I think he still can. I was just pointing out that he was so highly touted a year ago and 2021 was nothing but a disaster for him. Once you consider he never even pitched against a major league hitter it makes that disaster look worse. Also, I don’t think that chat question was about Padres fans giving up on Gore. I think it was someone really overvaluing him. He was talking about trading him and another prospect for a Cy Young winner and an MVP candidate who both still have a lot of their prime left. I think a lot of teams should be interested in Gore and Abrams but not at that ridiculous price. He was suggesting the Indians would be willing to give up a pitcher who could be the best pitcher in MLB next season on top of a position player who could win the MVP next season. Both of those players are under cheap control for multiple years. I don’t think anyone is giving up on Gore but a Cy Young winner and an MVP for him and another prospect? Come on.
I’ve never seen Gore pitch. So I had/have no opinion of him.
But people all over these boards – especially Padre fans – have spent 2 or so years writing about how he’d dominate in the major leagues.
I question whether even a one of them saw him pitch against competition. Most here seem to read nonsense about prospects on the Internet, and form opinions. Under an article below a guy is proposing the Phillies trade Harper – a 28 year-old 2-time MVP – for 2 Blue Jays prospects…neither of whom has yet to play a day at the major league level.
Abrams and Gore for JRam and Bieber. One of the most ridiculous trade proposals.
Missed the chat but wanted to throw this out there: Kimbrel for Kiermayer(?). Who says no?
Rays say no
Rays because trading Kiermaier would be a salary dump and i doubt you would get the White Sox to pay for both Kiermaier’s incoming salary and Kimbrel’s outgoing salary
Had to end it begging for subscribers or this wouldn’t be trade rumors
Had to have an ungrateful freeloader whine-fest or this wouldn’t be the comment section.