The A’s took another positive step in their quest to build a new stadium in Oakland this week, as Sarah Ravani of the San Francisco Chronicle reports that the Oakland City Council voted (six to two) to certify a 3500-page environmental impact review of their Howard Terminal ballpark project.
“We’ve never been this far in terms of making our vision for the waterfront ballpark for the A’s a reality,” A’s president Dave Kaval said following the council vote. “There is still a lot of work to be done. This is an important accomplishment and an important milestone to reach.”
The ballpark’s construction is part of a broader-reaching, $12 billion mixed-use development plan that also includes the construction of ample housing, office space, retail space and hotels in the surrounding area. If eventually approved, the new stadium would give the A’s a waterfront home with a capacity to host roughly 35,000 fans on a nightly basis. It would also finally move the team from the Oakland Coliseum — the last vestige of the once-popular multi-sport facilities that have been phased out across not only Major League Baseball but the majority of North American professional sports.
The city council’s certification of the Howard Terminal EIR was not without its detractors. Ravani writes that concerned citizens and the two councilmembers who voted against certification raised questions about the extent to which the review investigated affordable housing, the impact on port functions, traffic ramifications in the surrounding neighborhoods, the removal of toxic waste, and railroad safety regarding the nearby tracks.
It’s worth emphasizing that the EIR’s certification is just one step toward the project’s ultimate approval. The city will still need to approve the final terms of the project, and an exact timeline toward any such vote remains unclear. Annie Sciacca of the San Jose Mercury News writes that the City of Oakland and the Athletics still need to complete negotiations on key economic principals of the plan, including — among other critical elements — who will fund the infrastructure and how substantial a portion of the proposed housing units will be designated affordable housing. Those negotiations could take months, as could subsequent studies (e.g. a deeper dive into traffic management) that are now slated to follow the EIR. Nevertheless, the A’s and Oakland mayor Libby Schaaf — a proponent of the deal — have touted the EIR certification as a notable victory.
“Tonight’s vote by the City Council was a historic moment for Oakland’s future,” Schaaf said following the vote. “The companion resolution by Councilmembers Bas, Kaplan and Kalb ensures that all Oaklanders will benefit from the proposed waterfront ballpark district, and that a world-class development with 18 acres of new public parks, 3,000 units of housing – including new affordable housing – will get built with the most sustainable and highest environmental standards on our waterfront.
“Tonight’s action is more than a milestone – it’s a giant leap forward in our shared mission to create a regional destination that gives back our waterfront to the public, connects a new vibrant neighborhood to our downtown and provides tens of thousands good union jobs for our residents – and it does it all while keeping our beloved A’s rooted in Oakland.”
There we go, A’s! Now just get the city to pay for it and your all set!
A 3500 page environmental impact report?
Ooof.
I have seen these type of reports in the past on some bigger projects. & I am a staunch environmentalist. But this has to be at least 3K pages that somehow say absolutely nothing. Can’t imagine trying to wade through all of that.
Pfffft. That’s leisure reading for me. I mean, watch baseball or read an environmental report of 3,000 pages? Duh, report all day long and twice on Sunday.
Well, you’re a bigger man than I am, Clip.
A 20 page engineering report takes me a couple drinks. Ain’t enough bourbon in the world to get through a 3500 page environmental study, serious. Good Lord. Bureaucracy at it’s finest.
Yeah, man, I’m totally joking. I’d rather drive nails underneath my fingernails and hang by them for a week.
God, I hope so.
Had you been serious, I would have been forced to rethink my take on @Yankee Clipper.
It’s California’s way of their heavy handed regulatory means to squeeze as much $ and power from the businesses that are still there.
The Athletics should follow the Raiders to Vegas.
@ldoggnation
Bingo. Government over regulation all in an effort to clamp down on everyone they possible can all the while taking enormous kick backs and lining their pockets.
Nobody is reading that report because it’s a giant joke.
@Idoggnation- I definitely thing the A’s moving to Las Vegas is an excellent idea. I’m a big fan of them keeping Matt Olson and not having to trade him away for prospects. The A’s owe it their fans to move.
So many wannabe experts completely unencumbered by expertise, knowledge, and facts. Stick with subjects you better understand, i.e., comic books, baseball statistics, Marvel superhero movies, Olive Garden/Applebees menu, fast food, etc.
@Horst deVurmehr- so what’s you’re expert opinion? Staying in Oakland? Smh. Go back to sleep. This subject is obviously way too advanced for you.
Las Vegas would prefer an owner with deeper pockets, thanks we’ll wait. Go Aviators
Oh, the sleep thing. Aren’t you clever?
Clean air, clean water and protecting our environment sound like good things to me!
Looking forward to decades more of A’s baseball in Oakland.
@Yankee-4, to my dear friends who are A’s fans, they most certainly don’t want their team going to Vegas. The notion that “the A’s owe it to their fans to move to Vegas,” is categorically absurd. Oakland is a strong baseball town and the A’s owe it to their fans to STAY!
Welcome to the California level of bureaucracy and overkill. The traffic study will take months and cost a fortune as well just to tell us traffic will significantly increase in the surrounding areas.
3500 pages is not a lot if it includes figures, charts, and tables. This is a massive project and one round of environmental sampling could very easily add 1000 pages if they’re counting all of that extra stuff. There’s no way it is 3500 pages of text. The media tends to exaggerate these kinds of things and it is not a matter of “overregulation” or “government overreach” as some of the other, more whinier posters are suggesting.
Do you want it built right? Do you want it to not have any environmental surprises (discovering contamination, discovering inadequate subsurface for building, even archeological discoveries)? Then you do an environmental impact analysis. 3500 pages with figures and tables is not out of the ordinary. I’ve seen projects that are only $10 million and small in property scale hit 1000 page reports.
@rct- You do realize that by being thoughtful and articulate with your comment you may be confusing quite a few people here.
RCT- It’s plain and simple. It’s California being California. You know people suffer in CA because of California BS. They mismanaged the forest because a little insect inhabits the forest they won’t allow any trees to be cut down. Meanwhile the forest get’s densely populated and when fire breaks out it turns into Armageddon. People lose there homes and people die.
All because of a little insect
Then there’s “The Bullet Train to Nowhere” The citizens of Ca voted for the train. So where do they decide to build it? Somewhere to best serve the population?No
Say like between SoCal and Las Vegas? NO. How about between Los Angeles and San Francisco? Absolutely NOT!!
They decided to start building it out in the middle of nowhere in Central California.In the San Joaquine Valley.
They awarded a contract to the lowest bidder at$300B who proposed radical changes to save money. They abandoned those changes and it end up costing $700 million more..
Also the former Governor Brown appointed 2 of his buddies to oversee everything. Wink Wink with no accountability..
And that was 8 years ago.
No sign of this bullet train happening and the State just keeps pouring more and more of tax payers $$$ into this boondoggle.
That’s how things are done in The Golden state.
Thanks for bringing your experience up, @rct.
I am confronted with a dozen or so engineering reports/year. They are minuscule compared to what you’re posting about; 15-25 pages.
However, the vast majority of the document is fluff. They could easily be 2-4 pages & say everything. I’m not a complete layman either. After college the Marines taught me engineering. So this isn’t some knee jerk, uneducated kickback.
My experience is, that some of these consultation studies are paid by volume. I’m quite certain the report could be streamlined significantly. Only “point” I was trying to make.
Well said… getting past the EIR process is a massive hurdle. This is also good for MLB. Assuming that Oakland and TB fully resolve their stadiums then it frees up MLB to expand to 32 teams. Vegas, Portland, MTL, Nashville are all viable options.
My favorites are the 3,500 page environmental impact studies that are for replacing an existing structure or building. Those are a hoot!!!
Yes. My company wanted to build a new building where our parking structure stood in Westwood. No new site needed to be evaluated. The environmentalists chimed in, yada yada yada, it’s 25 years later and no new building still.
See the index, charts, graphs etc…IER’s are comprehensive and act as a shield against future lawsuits etc. Lots of that info has been done for other projects and is just updated and customized for this project. They are not “reinventing the wheel” so to speak.
Hope there was lots of pictures
Clipper and Ducky (and anyone else for that matter) I have a book recommendation for you. It’s a bit older book so you may have read it. It’s Pinstripe Empire. A full history of the Yankees. I got it for Christmas and couldn’t put it down.
Awesome Joe, thanks for the rec!
Noted, @Joe Says…
Good luck getting this through … no parking, toxic waste, and far away from public transit. Very few a’s fans in the bay area in the first place and doubt they’d want to be stuck in traffic and climbing over railroad tracks to see a game. Besides that, a’s want oakland to pay for all of the infrastructure costs and don’t even want to put their share of required low-cost housing in the project!
The next actual step will be for the opponents of the project to sue the city over the adequacy of the EIR. Every critical comment made by the public and especially by the two members of the City Council who voted again certification is entered into the record and will form the basis for the lawsuit. Odds on this happening: roughly 100%. Lawsuits of this kind can easily take years to resolve.
Except for the fact that the previous State Assemblyman (Rob Bonta) for the area involved pushed through a CEQA limitation bill for the project mandating all cases to prove-or-quit in 270 days.
It’s been upheld on appeal twice, and Rob Bonta is now Attorney General for the state.
Thanks for that info. Large projects often win special legislative CEQA carve-outs and I wasn’t aware this one had. So, the delay will be close to a year. The lawsuit is inevitable.
Many major projects receive “fast track” status with special State legislation passed to cut the red tape, cut to the chase and get the project completed ASAP like for SoFi stadium. for the Rams.
You would like to think that things like traffic, toxic waste removal, and railroad safety would be included in environmental impact review.
Of course they were. The challenges in California environmental law are nearly always over whether issues were adequately addressed, not whether they were addressed at all.
They were included — two councilmembers and several citizens just felt the scope of the study in those particular areas was insufficient.
If you’re talking about Noel Gallo, it was clear to all who had a clue that he’d never read ANY of the material that was provided to him, as he still tried to push the A’s at building at the Coliseum (which the league ruled out years ago).
His showing last night couldn’t have been worse if he’d been wearing makeup and clown shoes.
“ His showing last night couldn’t have been worse if he’d been wearing makeup and clown shoes.”
Manfred’s got that covered.
I see. Thank you Steve and BlueSkies for the clarifications.
This is the typical objection to CEQA documents and the basis of challenges to their adequacy. It’s less common for a claim to be made that an issue was not addressed at all, especially in project of this kind in which it is likely every issue that CEQA requires to be addressed was studied exhaustively. It is still quite easy to challenge them on technical grounds. All an opponent really needs is a subject expert to enter their opinion in the public records to have a basis for a lawsuit.
Typical California. The Council members will be opposed to any development. But if you do it, it is more important to build expensive waterfront housing for the homeless drug addicts than a ballpark. They won’t even care about the $`12 billion of investment to improve their city.
12 billion and guessing half will be some kind of “carve outs” with california and oakland involved.
What a massive amount to throw away, knowing corruption will eat it up with the names involved in the government involved locally and nationally there.
12b will be spent, homelessness will not be helped, pockets of politicians will be lined and nothing gained in the end. californification.
Every time I see this I laugh… This has been going on for decades now. Even if this “is as far as it’s ever gotten”, it’s all much ado about nothing. In the end the city will not go for it. This is the same city that let the Warriors and Raiders walk.
I don’t even think the A’s want it now. They are just saying the right things as they prep their move to Vegas.
BTW, it’s crazy to think that there is known toxic waste there and it has not been removed already. Call me crazy, but I would think you’d go ahead and clean that up regardless of the A’s moving there.
The toxic waste concern is often ‘brownfield’ contaminants that would be disturbed by construction excavations. E.g., lead from old corroded pipes being exposed or asbestos insulation.
I figured it wasn’t from a nuclear reactor. ;;)
Just odd that is a point of contention when it should just be cleaned up. I guess it’s not as big an issue that the EPA or Department of Toxic Substances Control do something about it.
There are 10’s of thousands of known contaminated areas in this country. To expect that they all had been cleaned by now is unrealistic. Like the former naval base across the estuary, it typically isn’t cleaned up until the actual development of the property has started.
I used to commute on the ferry from Alameda to SF, and I could see part of the Howard Terminal area. There were cranes, and a huge conveyor belt for loading metal to be recycled on ships. Part of the property had huge piles of the metal waiting to be loaded.
I haven’t been there recently, but it wasn’t that long ago that the area still had structures on it, the loading equipment, and the piles of metal, and was still in use. And, in fact, all that may still be there now.
Howard Terminal is the 50 acre parking lot for semi’s and unused containers immediately to the east, right next to the ferry terminal.
The area you describe is actually the neighboring lot, owned by Schnitzer Steel, who is very upset about the attention it’s brought to their toxic mess.
A’s won a court case vs the DTSC to actually enforce their rules, and Schnitzer got slapped with a *permanent injunction* to reduce emissions by 99% and clean up their toxic waste problem.
SS is now claiming there’s so much toxic waste they can’t afford to deal with it and that it should be re-classified as NONtoxic so it can just be dumped in an ordinary landfill.
Schnitzer is also one of the top global scrap metal recyclers, whose subsidiaries include Pick’N’Pull, so “we can’t afford it” is BS.
Thanks for the clarification. I always (erroneously) thought Schnitzer was part of Howard Terminal, and would be gone if the stadium got built.
In my town (also in California), there’s toxic waste from a limestone mine that operated about a hundred years ago. It’s only now being cleaned up because they’re building a development on the site. Until then, the only action was they put up a sign along the trail through it warning to not touch or drink the contaminated water.
Nobody cleans up until development necessitates it.
Big Pharma, Fauci and the CDC all say that asbestos is both real and bad for you.
So, I assume some people will want to crush it and snort it because freedom.
Vegas won’t work out. They stepped out a while ago.
Nobody is building a stadium in ghetto crime ridden , homeless ridden , and gang ridden . Oakland especially one with no parking ️ . Let’s get my team moved to Vegas .
do you live in the area or just like to spout off stereotypes and tropes about the people that live in Oak?
I’ve lived there until I escaped to AZ.
THOSE ARE NOT SEREOTYPES. Why don’t you grab a ride to the stadium down Seminary Way or take BART there.
Then you can wake up from your “wokeness “.
Time to log off for a while, grandpa
The language you use just proves your prejudices.
Maybe get a new team if you hate Oakland so much?
‘Most Dangerous US Cities’ (neighborhoodscout.com/blog/top100dangerous)
4) Detroit
5) St. Louis
11) Cleveland
13) Milwaukee
15) Kansas City
30) Oakland
31) Houston
42) Minneapolis
62) DC
…
Oakland isn’t even top 5 of the MLB cities.
I have been in every park in these cities except Oakland. And in everyone of these cities, I have felt very safe in the area around their ball parks, including in Detroit watching my Tigers. Regardless where Oakland ranks, every city will do its best to make the areas around the ballpark safe for those who visit, including Oakland.
Or rather, a successful ballpark will ensure that it’s a wealthy neighborhood and wealthy neighborhoods are safe neighborhoods.
The Media over exaggerates some of these things.
Oakland is safe. You can jump on BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit) from most of the Bay Area and it drops you right off at the Oakland Coliseum. Not sure if there is a BART stop near the new proposed A’s stadium site. If not, then they could add one.
I don’t where you pulled that list from. But Chico should be on there as #1. Don’t they have 3 killings every 8 hours. and twice on Sunday.
Should have been Chicago.
Ok boomer.
Mitchell Page:
I lived in the area, and the reason I went to only a few games at the Oakland Coliseum was because I wasn’t an A’s fan, and I thought the stadium was just awful. Why go there when I could go to games at what’s now called Oracle Park.
But, when I did go, both by driving and BART, none of the things you listed, except a few homeless on the train, was ever seen by me, nor any kind of factor when I did attend games. The one thing I did like was the ability to tail-gate in that huge parking lot.
The reason for not rebuilding in that area is MLB’s universal belief that downtown stadiums, surrounded by mixed-use development, is the best situation for all teams. It’s their goal for any team looking for a new stadium. And if you think there aren’t any gangs in AZ, think again.
“The rage, Mitchell Page” that made me laugh!
A’s Stadium should be in San Jose/Silicon Valley like the 49ers.
(corporate sponsorships, lots of people, freeways, transit, booming areas etc)
Repeal Baseball’s Anti trust exemption.
Candlestick Park much worse. It was like watching a baseball game in a wind tunnel. Hang on to your hot dogs and beer or it could be carried to the 2nd deck or on the field.
Whoever decided to build a ballpark in a fog zone with the crazy weather patterns on Candlestick point certainly did not do an “environmental report” and find a spot where it was sunnier and mild winds and weather.
I think the Oakland Chamber of Commerce will reject the A’s plan for their proposed Howard Terminal ballpark, forcing the A’s to relocate to Vegas for the 2025 season.
Any City, USA can get OAK to relocate simply by agreeing to build them a ballpark. A’s aren’t committed to one area over another. States like NC & TN should thrown their proverbial hats in the ring.
But the Raiders relocated to Vegas prior to the 2020 NFL season, but the A’s could be next.
The Raiders 1st choice was So Fi stadium in Los Angeles to share it with the Rams. The Chargers were allowed first dibs on that deal by the NFL
.
The Raiders had a perfectly good “fallback option”
to share Levis Stadium with the 49ers.
They gambled that they could make more $$ in Vegas.
I’m fairly sure MLB won’t just let them move anywhere. That’s why Vegas would work. They could stay in the same division in a growing city that has a proven fan base that would support them. Vegas has hockey and football already, and I’m sure MLB would approve it. I also believe ownership has already met with officials down there on a couple of occasions.
MLB doesn’t want the A’s moving to Vegas. They want that location for an expansion team in about 5 or 6 years. Definitely by the end of the decade. Their goal is to get to 32 teams and a balanced, even number of teams in each league.
I’ve heard that but there are two teams (Oak and Tampa) that are already struggling mightily to get fans and new ballparks. Expanding with two dying teams is odd timing.
Kingken-Then why did Manfred give the A’s the okay to look into the Las Vegas Market last year.? They have 24 potential sites in Vegas. !1 of them being property where The Tropicana sits.
Dude, Vegas was a leverage play against the Oakland City Council. It worked. Bally’s just bought the Tropicana, btw.
MLB would accept an A’s move to Vegas.
MLB wants to expand to Montreal and Monterrey, Mexico.
More involved than throwing a hat into a ring. 2 states u just mentioned are not solid blue and maybe not going to, nor willing to throw away HALF a billion dollars (or more) towards a stadium as a giveaway to entice some team as a pie in the sky getting them to relocate.
Vegas, being in NV might have a chance to get some tax dollars from the locals, but I have doubts about purple NC and solid red TN.
It’s easy throwing possible names and places where fans would like to see teams move, but have to 1st look at political landscape and see how possible getting that free money would be in reality, compared to the blue states where a team like Oakland would maybe want to leave. It’s a side reason Tampa is/will have a tough time, the state is probably not going to give them anything to stay.. maybe few tax breaks, but nowhere close to half a billion.
Red States are more likely to give billionaire sports team owners corporate welfare tax subsidies. Blue and purple States not so much.
Not true. The city of Sacramento been offering to build the A’s stadium since 1985. They had the land next to sleep train arena and had even done some preliminary building on the site.
I never Cow Town mentioned. I know the A’s would like to move to San Jose. heard
The San Francisco Giants won’t allow a move from Oakland to San Jose. The Giants would only mildly object to a move to Sacramento. the giants do not get a veto, but all of the owners are sympathetic to owners who don’t want geographic competition for a television market/fan base.
The SF Giants should have nothing to say about it.
If the White Sox and Cubs can share Chicago
and the Yankees and Mets can share NYC
and the Dodgers and Angels can share LA
then the Giants and A’s can share the SF Bay Area.
In the “No Good Deed Goes Unpunished Category”
The Former A’s Ownership saved the Giants for the SF Bay Area by helping find an new Owner and by blocking MLB approval for Tampa ownership to buy and move the SF Giants to Tampa Bay.
Giants were supposed to move to Santa Clara County/Silicon Valley,
but decided to stay in City of SF.
A’s should be allowed to move to Santa Clara County/Silicon Valley/SanJose.
Congress: Repeal MLB’s Anti trust exemption.
Chamber of Commerce has no power. It’s a group of businesses that slap each other on the back for a fee.
I think that MLB and the A’s are setting the bar so high and putting up so many hoops to jump through that they are banking on it not going through so that they can pivot to Las Vegas.
I believe MLB would prefer to keep the athletics in to Oakland. First of all, the population of the nine Bay Area counties is over 7 million. The population of the entire state of Nevada is approximately 3 million. And there is very little room for growth in Nevada. Most people don’t know that the United States government owns 95% of the land in Nevada. Another factor is that Las Vegas is Los Angeles Dodgers territory. They are not going to be very happy about giving up a chunk of their Fanbase.
Nevada is not the Dodgers “fan base” even though a lot of Dodgers fans do go to Las Vegas,
The Raiders are still the most popular NFL team in LA.. But that might change if The Rams win a couple more SB’s in the next 5 years Las Vegas is not Dodger territory. Why would they be.?
I lived in California most of my life. Any time the term “environmental review” is attached to any plan, add 20 years to the project. That’s how long it will take to relocate some non-existent endangered beetle.
“ That’s how long it will take some non-existent endangered beetle to be relocated.”
Lolol.
Facts. There’s nothing more California than that, oh and CalTrans.
I am orders of magnitude more informed than you are about environmental laws in California and know about its many quirks and problems first hand. So I know what you say is completely untrue.
I’m sure you’re very important, Blueskies. My comment was “tongue in cheek”.
Oh so now you were joking. Lame. Knowing something doesn’t make you important, it makes you a person who knows something.
“BlueSkies_LA12 mins ago
I am orders of magnitude more informed than you are about environmental laws in California…”
If I forget how important you are, I’m sure you will remind me.
Yes, my comment was made in jest based on my experience living in California for 5 decades Maybe lighten up a bit.
They killed the entire forest products industry over the spotted owl creating numerous poor communities on the west coast that haven’t recovered.
…and wasn’t there some fish or turtle for which “they” shut off the water supply to the entire central valley farming community?
No.
“They killed the entire forest products industry over the spotted owl…”
Exaggerate much? Gosh, I had no idea that lumber was no longer available. Drive through Oregon some time and take a look at those swaths of clear-cut forest that you see everywhere, and then tell me again how the forest industry was destroyed.
In California, the logging industry is thriving thanks to climate change. We’re thinning the forests as fast as we can, and selling affected trees after every fire. I live near the forest, you can’t go into it without seeing logging trucks at work.
But it’s not something that makes most of us particularly happy. It’s necessary, unfortunately, because of the behavior of people like you.
What?? do you know how mills have been shut down over the years? There thereupon CA is having all these wildfires. The Forest has not been properly maintained.
Stop repeating ignorant fake right wing talking points.
We have climate change/global warming that makes
all weather events that much more serious: Hurricanes, Tornados, fires, floods you name it.
Most of the forests in the USA are National Forests owned by the Federal government and the Federal government is responsible for its maintenance and that would be the former Pres who was totally clueless.
Bull. Obviously you know nothing about the forestry industry. The forestry industry didn’t die. It mechanized which caused employment in the industry to crash. Harvesting trees today requires very little labor. Most of the labor in the logging operations where I live today seems to be the truckers who haul the logs out of the woods. The lumber mills have also been mechanized to reduce labor costs.
During the big spotted owl controversy of the late 70s and early 80s, I lived in Oregon logging country. Yeah, real impact. The industry was harvesting just as much as in the past, but mills were shutting down. Why? Logs, not lumber, was being shipped overseas as outdated American mills couldn’t do metric. Those mills that remained were mechanizing as was felling and transport.
Finally, the industry follows the trees. West coast timber grows too slow. Timber grows much faster in the southeast than it does in the Northwest. Do a little research.
Not Exactly
See :LA SoFi Stadium. See Levis Stadium for 49ers etc.
When CA wants to get something done fast , then they involve the Governor, the State Legislature and put together special legislation to fast track the project.
Sports-Exactly. Good point brother
Rams (So Fi) and 49ers ( Levis Stadum) and Padres (Petco Park)
fast tracked their New stadiums and did not seem to have those problems,
Sir Paul McCartney lives in LA and he’s not endangered.
prov3561
California moves to fast track large projects when its movers and shakers want the project built.
Examples :
1) Giants New stadium in SF,
2)Warriors New facility in SF
3) 49ers New Stadium in Santa Clara County
4) Rams/Chargers New Stadium in LA
5) Padres New Stadium in San Diego
Old myths die hard eh?!
I thought they A’s were going to go to Las Vegas like the Raiders but unlike the Raiders I see the city actually giving the stadium desires to the A’s. It’s hard to imagine they move to Las Vegas now.
I really hope not, man. A’s are one of the classics. Part of baseball history.
Knowledgeable yankee fan
@Yankee Clipper
Agreed. My earliest memories when i really got into Baseball was staying up late watching the A’s when ESPN has their weeknight double headers. Seems like the A’s were always the late game. To this day i hate what they did to the stadium to accommodate the Raiders and most of the stadiums issues are a direct result of the Raiders. If they never do any of that i could renovations similar to Angels stadium and we probably never have these discussions
The A’s are the team that’s moved more than any other, starting in Philly, and playing in KC, before Oakland.
Though not an A’s fan, I hope they stay in Oakland. But, historically, moving seems to be their thing.
Untrue:
Washington Statesmen/Senators became Montreal Expos, then became Washington Nationals.
Boston Braves became Milwaukee Braves, then became Atlanta Braves.
Actually the Washington Senators became the Minnesota Twins. The second incarnation of the Washington Senators became the Texas Rangers. The Montreal Expos became the Washington Nationals.
The A’s have moved the exact same amount of times as the Braves (3). I don’t know if it’s their thing since they’ve been in Oakland since 1968 (or 54 years, tied with their time in Philadelphia)
The Expos were an expansion team. The original Senators became the Twins.
Maybe the Kings will relocate from Sacramento to Vegas if Vivek sells the Kings to Black Knights Sports and Entertainment, who owns the Golden Knights of the NHL and Raiders and Aces owner Mark Davis
Relocating an NBA team is honestly not as big a deal and the Kings could move right into T-Mobile Arena. I question whether MLB could have sustained success in an area of mostly transplants over the course of 81 homw games. Outside of when the Red Sox, Yankees, or other big draws come to town, attendance issues could be exactly the same as in Oakland. It could be like leaving the frying pan for the fryer
It’d be worse, as Vegas would be the third smallest market and heavily dependent on visiting teams fans:
Rayduhs fans are already having huge problems with being outnumbered (and outcheered) by Chiefs and Broncos fans at home games.
Raiders plan was always that. VGK doesn’t have this problem. It’s a matter of expansion for the MLB in Vegas if they want huge local support there.
That’s not happening. Kings got a new arena in 2016. Do you guys even bother searching these things?
Maybe Matt Harvey can distribute some party favors to the powers that be in Oakland…
He sure won’t be busy pitching.
He may appear on that show, “Whose [line] is it anyway?”
The A’s had Harvey in 2019 after he was released by the Angels. He pitched 5 games in AAA for them. Pretty sure that was enough time for them to figure out they want nothing to do with him
I live in Oakland and like the idea of a ballpark at the waterfront and that area being developed. But congestion and traffic is already bad getting to that area and Bart is too far away. But hey, it’s great spot if you’re coming by boat.
They need to add a BART station to the Oakland Waterfront Area.
A step forward on a long journey. A long journey remains.
Cities spending public dollars to benefit private entities better have a compelling reasons for it. If this really results in substantial improvement of the area and an increased tax base, then the money might be well spent. If it’s just a costly gift that, ten years from now, is no longer valued by the team enough not to look for greener pastures, then you need to wonder about politician’s choices on behalf of the people who elected them. Love the juxtaposition of what’s happening in Oakland, and what’s not happening between MLB and MLBPA.
BINGO
Stand strong, Oakland. There’s nothing wrong with the current stadium and it’s actually one of the most fun baseball venues in “MLB”, and they hardly have any fans anyway. Don’t give a penny for a new stadium, don’t allow construction of a new stadium, and DON’T GIVE IN!!!
Oakland isn’t paying for the stadium. Read any statement in the last 10 years. The A’s are privately funding the ballpark. The issue is the surrounding land and development.
Ahhhh, the contrarian has appeared.
“There’s nothing wrong with the current stadium…”
Wow. I’ve been to games there, and couldn’t disagree more.
“…they hardly have any fans anyway.”
Yeah, there’s a reason for that. The stadium.
They must at least try to compete or the team is gone.
I have rooted against the A’s my whole life. Always loathed the team, the green, the crappy foul territory on the field, the fact that the owners are cheapskates. The fact that they are the Mariners division rival
But as a sports fan, and more importantly a SONICS fan, I sincerely, whole heartedly hope that the city/Bay Area can make this happen for the fans. This is one of the golden franchises in baseball; and there is so much rich history with the team in Oakland.
There is absolutely no excuse: get these fans a new stadium IN Oakland! Or at least in the Bay Area.
The A’s have cleared Level One of the CA Bureaucracy Challenge. There are still multiple levels to pass, at least half a dozen more studies need to be done, and you can bet the farm on a lawsuit by an environmentalist group at some point.
Cool development but they are still several years, at best, from actual progress.
Props to their commitment to staying in Oakland. Every other business is getting out as quickly as possible.
And yet another expert.
It’s almost like a 15+ year career in lending and real estate and knowing/working with developers gives me a glance at how this works. Or doesn’t.
Want to bet 5 years from today the A’s still aren’t playing in this new park?
Yes.
More non fact based cheap shots against Oakland?!
Being a native Californian and having worked in government it’s annoying to hear people complain about things like EIR and regulations. They are there for a reason. It’s a hassle for a reason. California has unique geography, climate, municipal history and government. The state came into being largely from the gold rush that saw robber barons and industry wipe out cultures and communities and devastate the landscape. Anyone know why the tallest mountain in the US is named Mt Whitney?
This report may be fine. But the problem is that the environmental rules are no longer used in good faith for their purpose. They’re abused by anyone opposed to a project for any reason, as people have discovered they can litigate a project into bankruptcy by inventing an endless stream of bad faith environmental objections that can’t be proven either way and can spawn countless years of study.
You should see how quickly the ultra-conservatives in my rabidly anti-development rural county pretend to become environmentalists when they can use that to stop an affordable housing project.
The tallest mountain in the Continental USA is Mt. McKinley in Alaska.
In the ‘lower 48 States” the tallest mountain is Mt. Whitney.
Leave it for government worker to justify their existence. Which is more efficient UPS and FedEx or a former government agency, called the Post Office. Or why it is easier to go to a 3rd vendor than go to the DMV or US Passport? Yes we need government regulations to prevent private corporations’ abuse, but we don’t need the government to overeggegulate nor “make things better.” That would result in increasing the largest employer in California (hint: it’s not a private corporation) and increasing the unfunded pension obligation of the state. Yeah Bloated Government!
It’s a damned shame that a team who does the best they can with what they got is not appreciated.
A’s should move out of that dump Oakland. MLB should allow them to move to San Jose, a much cleaner, newer, family friendly and financially viable city.
MLB (Bud Selig) have blocked the A’s from moving to San Jose/Silicon Valley for years. The current Commish is carrying on Selig’s blockade of the A’s from San Jose/Silicon Valley and damaging the A’s viability in the SF Bay Area And, conveniently, blaming the A’s and Oakland’s fans.
Congress should Revoke MLB’s Anti trust exemption.
The would but they could never get there due to traffic…
Or Las Vegas or San Antonio.
Ahh yes. Thank god we have the government looking out for the environment. It’s not as is the American government is the number one polluter in the country or anything.
Our governor cares so much about the environment he flies private hers down to LA to watch football games.
Talk about commitment.
3500 pages seems like a lot. It may only be 1200 pages, but they have to present this in multiple languages, like the instruction manuals I get with appliances or new yard equipment.
Most of the comment section has no clue about this. Definitely haven’t searched this issue at all and it shows.
We don’t need to research the issue to comment on a comment page.
We can just be fans and give you our emotional reaction.
Don’t read
Are MLB and A’s Ownership negotiating in bad faith?! Are they using this process and all the hoops the City is jumping through as a way to set so many high hurdles that make it virtually impossible for a reasonable deal to be consummated that won’t put the current Host City and County in serious financial jeopardy so that the A’s and MLB can pivot and move the team to Las Vegas?!
Is all of this just “smoke and mirrors” and “covering their tracks” so they have defenses lined up when they get sued by the City for moving the team to Las Vegas?!
We have seen this with major sports franchises before.
The San Diego Chargers “yanked the chains” of San Diego officials and their fans
that had supported the team, including financial subsidies, for over 30 years and then they moved to Los Angeles.
It turns out that, perhaps, that was the Chargers plan all along and they, perhaps, they had negotiated in “bad faith” with the City and that the Chargers had never intended to stay in San Diego according to a recent lawsuit filed in San Diego.
I wish Oakland the best of luck with trying to keep the A’s.
However, Major sports team owners (and their leagues) have proven, time and again, that they will use current host Cities
just to leverage a move to a new Host City with zero loyalty to the fans and Host Cities.
TL;DR:
“I have no idea what’s going on or how this plan is financed”
(privately, team fronts all costs)
“but IT’S BAD!”
FYI: Vegas got explored for league expansion courtesy of some pressure applied to kick the City of Oakland into gear.
I can’t believe a city like San Diego could not get it together to get a football stadium built. I saw one rendering online. The stadium was going to be near Petco Park.
It would of been perfect.
Maybe The Chargers can move back there someday. Beautiful City. I love going to see The Angels play the Padres at Petco. Beautiful ballpark. Beautiful View looking out beyond CF and the City skyline.
The NFL loved having Super Bowls in San Diego.
The Chargers were inherited by the sons and grandsons of longtime owner
Alex Spanos who passed. They do not seem to have that “midas touch” for business and the loyalty to the local community that supported that Chargers team for 30+ years.
That Chargers football situation was bungled by multiple Parties.
(plenty of blame to go around including Chargers Ownership).
The LA market was wide open and without NFL football 20 years.
When The Rams decided to move back to LA, then the entire proposition changed. LA is the 2nd largest TV market in the country and the NFL wanted back into LA badly. $$$$$
The NFL gave the Chargers “2nd choice as the #2 team in SoFi Stadium that was under construction for the Rams as #1.
The Raiders were given 3rd choice on LA.
The Chargers chose LA and had their sights on LA for a long time.
The Chargers Ownership did not negotiate in “good faith” with San Diego as a New lawsuit against the Chargers states.
The Chargers team value doubled as soon as their moving vans crossed into LA County because of the TV revenues..(That was their business plan all along).
The Chargers and the Rams did not want the Raiders back in LA since the Raiders are more popular than either team and would make more $$$$ in LA.
The Chargers chose LA and Raiders fallback position was Las Vegas
(when it could have been Levis stadium in Santa Clara County shared with the 49ers). The Raiders were blocked from moving to LA and Rams/Chargers share the LA lucrative territory and So Fi Field. NFL put a limit on only 2 teams in LA.
San Diego County, which is not part of LA, has 4M people has proven it can support NFL football. for 30 plus years of sellouts etc…The Chargers fans in San Diego have abandoned the LA Chargers and when the team stabbed them in their backs and choose LA. In LA, the. Chargers played in a less than half filled Soccer stadium in LA County before So Fi was completed.
The Chargers have former Charger and All Pro running back La Damián Thomlinson is presently doing commercials apologizing to San Diego fans and begging San Diego Chargers fans to come back to the LA Chargers team.
It is not working. SD Chargers fans are mostly gone now. The Chargers will have to grow a new fan base in LA.
The NFL may give San Diego an expansion franchise in the future.
.
For the reasons in my comments above and more, that is why I question the good faith of the A’s negotiations when, at times, there is more going on “behind the scenes” that they are not sharing with the public.
The Nashville Athletics. I like it.
Nashville is not at the top of the list of relocation sites for the A’s.
I would think that Las Vegas, Montreal (maybe Rays) Mexico City, London may be higher on the list.
You gotta be kidding me. Mexico City, London. ??? LOL
The Rays are not going to be splitting time in Montreal.MLB put a end to that 2 weeks ago. Nashville has put a group together to try to lure a team. When is the last time you heard London and MLB mentioned? Please.
Montreal is looking for a fulltime team.
And, actually, Monterrey, Mexico has hosted MLB games and is on MLB’s
“expansion radar” since it is the 3rd largest city in Mexico and Mexico has a huge baseball fan base.
London also has big commercial potential for baseball.
Sportsfan0000 – Before you minimize Nashville, you should research what ‘s actually happening here. There is a big move to bring MLB to Nashville. Here are just two items for you to look at that were a quick Google search away:
mlbmusiccity.com/
tennessean.com/story/sports/2020/12/11/dave-dombro…
I love Nashville. I just don’t think it is on the top of MLB’s expansion list unless they bring in 4 new teams.
Nashville would be a beautiful city for a baseball team. They should allow a team to be purchased by a Nashville businessman (who, unlike Stu will care about the community), and Come up with a cool name/uniform. One sport that does a good job, for the most part, is hockey. They’ve come up with some cool names, unlike…the Guardians.
Nashville needs a team. So does Charlotte.
Nashville would not change the name if the A’s moved there.
The A’s franchise has a storied history.
Nashville Banjos
You could name a TN team the following state-relevant names:
TN Bass
TN Butterflies – for those a bit more…. Sensitive
TN Stallions
TN Fireflies
TN Trash Pandas (Raccoons)
TN Badgers
Of course the TN can be supplanted with “Nashville” to represent the city of choice. I only selected names that had direct ties to the state of TN/Nashville.
My buddy has a Trash Pandas t-shirt. I want one.
Yeah, that’s awesome, Prov, lol. I get a kick out of the name too. So much better than Raccoons.
This is a good news story, but don’t let that stop the aggrieved snowflakes on this site. Hopefully, the endless whining will end when pitcher and catchers finally report to Spring Training.
The only one who appears to be whining and crying is you.
I must disagree since I said this is a good news story.
And aren’t you’re the clever fellow that thinks there’ll be an MLB franchise in London? Brits have zero interest in baseball, which they compare unflatteringly to a child’s game called ‘rounders’. Yours is the silliest comment I’ve read in a long time.
Quite the contrary chap! MLB is growing quite a fan base in the UK!
mlb.com/news/london-series-brings-out-british-mlb-…
Horst – “aggrieved snowflakes”
Such a perfect description. I find it interesting that Sportsfan0000 knew you were referring to him without mentioning his name.
Extremely wishful thinking on MLB’s part, and you’re still silly. An annual weekend carnival event attracting American expats does not demonstrate local British interest. Get yourself a passport, do some traveling, and expand your horizons. You’ll be better for it.
(And you missed the comma between contrary and chap. Please tighten up your delivery.)
prov356 & Horst
Just doing everyone a favor and trying to diplomatically tell you that you are on the wrong site. MLB is a baseball and sports site.
Unfortunately, it just went “over your heads”.
Toxic politics and fake made up BS is on another page.
There are way too many of those screeching sites.
Don’t bring those “toxic waste dump” discussions here.
Let the rest of us enjoy baseball in peace.
Sports,
Bless your dimwitted heart. You know nothing of which you speak. You speak for no one, rube.
MLB Commish has talked of viable expansion in Montreal and Monterrey, Mexico.
The Padres and Dodgers have played official sold out major league series
in Monterrey, Mexico.
africa.espn.com/blog/onenacion/post/_/id/8496/ther…
…
Montreal had it’s chance. They blew it.
The Last big baseball strike is what ruined MLB in Montreal.
The Expos had the best record in baseball and were on the way to a World Series with a team loaded with great young talent, including future
Hall of Famers, and they had a new stadium deal tee ed up for voter approval when the baseball strike cancelled the season, torpedoed their chances for a new stadium and killed baseball in Montreal.
MLB, including the current Commish, want to get MLB back into Montreal.
“If those commies socialists in California won’t fork over all of the taxpayer money the A’s demand, they can just move to non-commie non-socialist Vegas, who will give them all the taxpayer money they want!”
Wow the libs are uppity on this article. Kinda fun.
And don’t forget the cons and the mags.