3:23 pm: The union’s player leaders voted unanimously to decline the league’s offer, reports Jeff Passan of ESPN (Twitter link). A person associated with the MLBPA told Evan Petzold of the Detroit Free Press, “We are done. This was always (the league’s) plan.” That’s in line with other allegations by those on the players’ side who believe the league exaggerated the extent of the progress made last night in order to frame today’s lack of agreement as the fault of the union.
3:17 pm: Major League Baseball made its “best and final” offer before their imposed 5:00 pm EST deadline to avoid game cancelations. The union is planning to reject that proposal, reports Jon Heyman of the MLB Network (on Twitter). Ben Nicholson-Smith and Shi Davidi of Sportsnet hear from a source involved with negotiations that talks are “over.”
For fans, it marks a disheartening end to the past week and a half of daily negotiations. Those proved last-ditch efforts to agree to a new collective bargaining agreement before the league’s self-imposed deadline (originally yesterday at midnight, later delayed to 5:00 pm today) for a CBA to be in place to avoid the cancelation of regular season games. That’s all but a certainty now, and Bob Nightengale of USA Today tweets that the league is expected to formally announce a delayed start to the regular season upon receiving the union’s official declination.
Throughout the lockout, MLB has maintained that canceled games would not be made up. That’s likely to mean lost game checks for players; the union has previously said that in that event, they’d respond by refusing to agree to an expanded playoff field for the 2022 season. Postseason expansion — from which MLB would stand to benefit financially — has been a goal of the league’s throughout negotiations, and the parties had reportedly decided to proceed with a potential 12-team format last night.
That decision, as with everything else discussed in collective bargaining to date, is up in the air after today’s developments. Commissioner Rob Manfred is scheduled to speak with reporters in Jupiter at 5:00 pm EST. He seems likely to announce a delay to the start of the season at that point, marking the first time since the 1994-95 player strike that regular season games would be lost due to an official work stoppage (although one could argue that the contentious run-up before implementation of the shortened 2020 schedule served as something of an unofficial lockout).
Manfred has previously called the possibility of lost regular season games “a disastrous outcome for the industry.” Many fans would no doubt agree with that characterization, but the league has apparently reached that point. Given the response to today’s discussions from those on the players’ side, some may question whether the commissioner and the league would genuinely consider today’s outcome “disastrous.” The league, after all, instituted the lockout — ostensibly as a means of kickstarting negotiations — but didn’t make a formal proposal for over a month during its early stages. MLB could lift the lockout at any point and proceed under the terms of the 2016-21 CBA, but there’s no chance they’ll do so.
The league suggested in talks with the union yesterday they’re willing to scrap a month’s worth of regular season play. How many games will be canceled remains to be seen, but the mere loss of any contests will surely drive away some fans frustrated with the entirety of the work stoppage. It’s also not clear what the next steps will be in terms of a resolution, as the parties are no longer expected to continue to bargain on a daily basis.
Passan also reports players voted unanimously
Regular season games probably just got cancelled. If they don’t continue negotiating this could last a lot longer than anyone thought 8 hours ago.
This is why we can’t have nice things in society. People ruin everything. Greed is rampant. This is still just a game, but here we are. Too bad.
We need to boycott and this won’t happen again
Agreed. I am ready to walk away. From Chelsey James’s stats and a couple of very owner-favorable assumptions,, we’re taking about reallocation less than 3.8% of MLB’s 2019 revenues if the parties just split their differences down the middle. . The actual number is probably closer to 2.1%. All this in a year when inflation is running at 7-8%?
The differences between the parties are (1) $55 million for the bonus pool, (2) $25,000 for the minimum salary, which if all MLB players were paid the minimum (and clearly that’s not true) would amount to less than $26 million. The big ticket item is the luxury tax threshold, which could affect most teams. If we assume that 20 teams would increase their payrolls by full annual difference between the parties of $33 million, that’s $660 million. So the total in dispute is $781 million. Split the difference and you have $390.5 million or less than 3.8% of 2019’s revenues of $10,7 billion. If we used $18 million for the luxury tax value, which is the difference between the parties in the initial year, the total luxury tax impact would be $ $360 million. This generate a total gap of $441 million, and, if you split that difference, it amounts to $220.5 million or less than 2.1% of 2019 revenue.. The owners take-it-or-leave it stance is pure gamesmanship. And those owners do not deserve my money.
This was a foregone conclusion as soon as the Union hired a Boras employee to negotiate for them. For the Union, this has always been about winning the negotiation in response to the narrative they’ve lost the last two CBA negotiations.
I feel sorry for all the people who rely on MLB to feed their families. In 2020 they had the government bailout to see them through. This time there’s nothing for them. I personally blame Scott Boras for this outcome and the players who have fallen victim to his devious charms.
Actually it probably would unfortunately
I boycotted last season. My team was in third straight year of tanking. They don’t care. They get TV money whether you watch or not. And most of that comes from the playoffs.
Yup definitely not going to games this year going to go and find other things to do and , see ya MLB tired of all you guys bs. . You’re not going to have steroids to get the fans back with a homerun chase. They all should be ashamed of yourselves
Sure, blame Boras. The man who has done more for player salaries than anyone is history. It’s his fault.
The owners wasted a month doing nothing and refuse to actually meet in person. But yeah, blame the guy who actually wins negotiations.
@ Scott: The owners are probably being a little too greedy but I can also not relate to someone who invested hundreds of millions to billions into buying a team. If they earned that money I could see why they would maybe be over protective over it. Baseball is definitely not the best investment so they can always pull out and make more money elsewhere. As far as the players… They get the shaft from owners a lot and have been for awhile. The Qualifying Offer is a joke and never should have existed. It’s another example of owners sneaking one by the players. I do wonder how much players consider other employees who “rely on MLB to feed their families” though, like you said. I don’t think the players consider them at all. The owners have to because they pay them and some owners occasionally give huge bonuses to their favorite low level employees. We are talking about baseball players who make at least $570 grand a year and usually a lot more. Does the guy who has been making $30 grand a year to support his family for the last 2 decades even cross their mind? After this experience, I honestly believe the owners think about those people way more than the players do. Employers almost always care about employees more than people they never met do. There have to be very poor people who work in stadiums and rely on jobs to feed their family there thinking: Is $700k a year minimum plus a $30 million bonus pool not enough for you to live in luxury and consider who else you might be affecting? Some of those MLB employees will be totally ruined without those jobs. I doubt the players even let that cross their mind when they turn down offers. It has to cross the owners mind because they think about what they have to pay those people before they even make an offer to the players. Some of those families are down here. Holding signs saying “make a deal: my family depends on it.” Maybe they are just used to billionaires getting their way but they cannot fathom the idea that their families are going to starve because baseball players aren’t willing to play for $700k-$43 million a year.
Maybe we need to stick this guy in negotiations
Sorry No one is worth $30 million a year that’s where the owners of messed up is paying these idiots that kind of money.
Greed and control. The players make millions of dollars. I don’t have a problem with them making a good wage because they are the ones we go to see, but this is not about getting paid fairly. This is about EXTREME greed, and a demand to control the owners and the game. Even guys I used to really respect — like Freddy Freeman — have bought in to the extreme greed.. As a Braves fan I’m hoping the Braves don’t bring him back. I’ve lost all respect for him — and I had a whole lot until recently.
The players are so completely out of touch with the fans. Which fans make millions of dollars, or complain that their starting salary is only $630K. Which fans wouldn’t love to make “only” $630K?
I’m really sick of all the reporters taking the players’ side. The players are doing nothing worthy of anyone’s support. There is no love for the game, no appreciation of the chance they have been given, no love for the fans. It’s just how big a paycheck they can get, and how much control they can get over the owners. The owners have continued to increase their proposals, but the players aren’t budging. Because they don’t care about what is good for the game or the fans.
I’ll always love baseball, but I don’t want to see these guys anymore. Fire them all and bring up some minor leaguers to play in their place. I haven’t heard or read one truly good and healthy thing the player’s union has said or wanted during this whole process. They are truly unworthy of the fans.
We fans do have to assume some blame here. We are the ones who paid ever-increasing amounts of money to watch this product, and MLB found a thousand different ways to make money off us. A game ticket, a beer or 3 and some peanuts – maybe a hat for one of the kids was really a ritual for fans each year. That was it for most people. They’d listen to games on the radio or catch a weekend game on tv. And it stayed reasonable for a while.
Then the teams figured out they could charge for parking, sell season tix to the real greedy fans, and even tech helped out by giving MLB an avenue to sell us packages to watch games on tv or internet whenever we wanted. And as those prices went up and up, the fans continued to pay. I’m not exactly sure why; it probably was competition with other fans to prove they were a bigger fan? Now here we are. I think the game is still fun to watch and follow a team through an entire season, but I find it increasingly annoying to see things like the shift or declines in complete games by starting pitchers, and certainly the myriad injuries from pushing the body past its limits. Maybe I’ve just outgrown the greed and I need to leave it for people more gullible than I to spend their hard earned money on.
There’s truth in what you say, but the market will always charge the most it can as long as people are willing to pay. That’s true most anywhere.
It’s labor stoppages like these that drive home the point that while the average fan loves the sport, it’s a business.
I don’t think the owners are 100% to blame here. The players and their union are just as much to blame. It’s a 50/50 blame.
I agree, the game has changed so much. I mean pitchers barely go 6 innings now. There were only 4 pitches who barely made it pass 200 innings this year. That’s pathetic.
So much emphasis to make the game “faster”. No. leave baseball as is…We are all to blame here. Fans, Owners and Players.
The real red flag for me, was a few years ago. Went to a home game and I bought two beers. It was almost $40. I haven’t gone to a live game since…haven’t really watched a game on tv. Maybe watch an inning or 2 at best. But doesn’t hold my attention like before.
I hear ya. This has been my point all along wondering why people just continually blame the owners and give the players a free pass. The reason everything at the games is so expensive is due to the insane saleries of the player’s. And then people blaming THE OWNERES FOR THE SHEER AUDACITY TO WANT TO EARN A PROFIT after buying and investing in a business. Myself and my friends who used to regularly attend games are hopeful this season is just cancelled and the MLBPA broken and the owners and players truly see the damage they have done to the game and bring it back to the fans. Remember players no fan’s no baseball
MLBPA never intended to accept any off from the owners.
MLBPA just sent a message to the FANS. They could care less about the FANS – only about fattening their wallets.
Have fun sitting at home without a paycheck.
You’re so wrong. You do realize the owners are the ones who locked out the players right? There is still a prior agreement in place right now.
There isn’t a prior agreement in place.
This is the first time in history a lockout has cost the loss of games.
The owners used the lockout as a means to negotiate and to prevent the players from striking. I was surprised how much the owners offered the MLBPA to get a deal done yesterday. I didn’t think they’d go that far. The players meanwhile haven’t really given much back outside of dropping their 75% number for Super 2 qualifications. There is no way the MLBPA is going to get 100% of what they are asking for, so in my opinion, it’s up to the MLBPA to get this over the finish line. If they don’t lower their expectations, the entire season is in jeopardy. With all that’s going on in the world, both sides are embarrassing themselves. I hope they lose a majority of the season over this ridiculousness and both sides take massive financial hits for doing so. I’m perfectly fine watching AA & AAA baseball this season; heck I might even go to a couple AAA games this year too and support the players who are playing for peanuts.
There’s been all kind of discussion about money between the players and owners but the fans seems to be completely ignored. Let’s face it, without fans there is NO game. I’d like to see some sort of economic study on how the cost to attend MLB games has skyrocketed for the fan over the last decade.
The players haven’t bargained in good faith. Neither have the owners but it seemed they moved farther off their initial positions than the players did.
Clark and the Union are in the words of Napoleon Dynamite, IDIOTS. I hope the owners set out the season and bust this Union.
It’s not about getting 100 percent of what they wanted.
Primarily, it’s about not agreeing to make a de facto salary cap even harder than it was last year, when six teams stopped just short of the threshold.
All the other gaps can be closed.
If you’re complaining about the so=called salary floor, and demanding a lottery and reduced revenue sharing, then don’t complain when teams want a salary cap.
@TMQ: No, there’s not. That prior agreement ran out at 11:59pm on Dec 1st. It’s void.
The only people who didn’t think we’d lose regular season games were the ones who just have been asleep during 2020 and the negotiations then. It was obvious that both sides don’t have the games best interests at heart, and couldn’t give a flying fig about the fans. It’s sad, but entirely predictable.
The fans are to blame over this and it’s obvious. The owners couldn’t get enough votes with the small market teams to increase the luxury tax. Because the fans have convinced everyone of this stupid narrative that spending equals winning and now you buffoons have caused a lockout. So good job fans. Hopefully when baseball comes back they make you bums pay double now.
This is ridiculous
@iverbure You must be on the wrong site. Fans of baseball tend to read and comment here.
Who hurt you
Why do you think small market teams are what’s behind the luxury tax fiasco? They won’t ever reach that level, at least anytime soon, It doesn’t affect them. I would imagine many of your mid to upper market teams have that issues, the ones that have a better chance of hitting those thresholds.
Exactly, it’s not the Pirates and Royals who are against raising the cap. They’ll never approach it anyway. It’s teams like the Tigers and White Sox…maybe the Cardinals who don’t want it. They’re getting close to championship contention and they need to put a speed bump out there in front of the Yankees and Dodgers (not that they would care that much anyway).
So the Max Scherzers vote this down. What does Bryce Harper care? Or Giancarlo? It’s guys like Colin McHugh and Avasail Garcia that want the mid-level teams to have a shot. That’s where they live and get paid.
The MLBPA is looking out for the Scherzers and the Bobby Witts. The guys who have made it and the guys who will.. But those 90% of the other guys…;like Robbie Grossman or Tyler Wade that just sit and don’t get paid.
Perhaps for competitive reasons? The disparity between teams with $75 mil payrolls and teams with $250mil is already wide enough; why would you want to increase that if you’re a small market owner….or fan for that matter?
The name of it isn’t “Luxury Tax” it’s called the “Competitive Balance Tax” for a reason. It’s designed to keep the total salary expended at the top end of the market in check so the mid and small market teams have at least a shot an occasionally competing with the large market teams. That’s why they’re holding the line on that. It has nothing to do with whether or not they will ever come close to it, it’s about keeping the handful of large market teams from going hog wild on virtually every free agent worth a large contract and eliminating any chance of competition.
Meanwhile, the Rays repeatedly blow this argument or of the water year after year. The league would benefit from a tax AND a floor and that is quite obvious. If an owner is in this business strictly to make profits, they are in the wrong business.
hahaha. even Kevin Hart is saying, “damn, iverbure got jokes”
Hopefully he’s being sarcastic…
Now you gonna hear the governors of Florida SpongeBob the Santos and the governor of Arizona Patrick start screaming and hollering about lost revenue for the state. This is all the owners fault for not putting an escalator of any type for the tax threshold
Can you not. No one cares about your political stance, you’re not clever and not a good person because of it.
Stick to baseball.
I don’t care about the governors but I do care about charities and small businesses and both are going to hurt over this.
Ballparks in the Cactus League are staffed by charity folks and that revenue accounts for a huge percentage of their budgets.
Those bars, grills, and other fun things in Spring Training towns in the Grapefruit League typically count on March for their best month.
I would hope civic leaders would complain about those losses, regardless of their affiliation.
Why make this political ?
Because some people just can’t help themselves, and they think they’re witty.
And to be honest, it was probably always the players intention to decline whatever the owners offered.
Both sides are more interested in optics than truly getting this done for the fans
Guess what…
YOU BOTH LOSE
Who cares…baseball is a sad spectacle and dead to me. Long live Ukraine and long live Zelensky!
Baseball’s problems are extremely insignificant to the suffering in Ukraine, that’s for sure.
The union needs Marvin Miller he All Ways Won
Maybe I’ll watch one or two games of
Brian Harper playing in Japan or in Mexican leagues
Do you ever get the feeling that our country and everything in our culture is under attack, simply because we were too naive and self-righteous and left the door open?
I think so.
Now that the owners have really shown back bone they need to wait 2 months and come back and hand dthe players the CBA from 1990 that’s adjusted for inflation and say here ya go fellas welcome back to the real world. You hit a ball with a stick and catch said ball with a glove and run around on grass and fake grass for a living. Your employees. Your demands are outrageous and out of place with with societal norms. You are not entitled. Your not putting your LIVES ON THE LINE LIKE POLICE OFFICERS , FIREMEN, OUR MILITARY PERSONNEL. Now those people are under paid.
Amen lemassey! Baseball sure has changed over the decades and the mindset of both owners and players has become warped. Players have a sense of entitlement and owners don’t particularly care about the concern of fans.
Thank you. I just can’t help but think back to what for me was that magical 1990 season when for the first time since I was 6 years old my Cincinnati Reds won the WS with a payroll of a staggering $17million and ERIC DAVIS was our highest paid player at $3 mil a year and just a couple of years prior in a major contract dispute with Kal Daniels over huge amount of money$, 50,000, the 2 sides agreed to settle it, literally, by flipping a coin. That’s a true story. They flipped a coin to to determine if he got that final amount of money. Imagine proposing that to a player today. They would go whining on Twitter , tick-tock, Instagram, Facebook and whatever else unsocial media platform they have to cry on and say the big bad owner is being greedy and negotiating in bad faith by asking me to flip a coin where I have just as much RISK as the owner .
Good! shut it down and screw the fans as usual.Baseball will lose more of their base fans and gain no new fans.Biden is more exciting to watch than a Baseball game.
And yet, here you are on a website dedicated solely to rumors associated with said game. In what world does that make sense?
@jon , nice 7th grade comeback
@Tcs nice 9th grade comeback.
The comma makes it 10th grade
“You’re a.. you’re a come back.” Chris Farley
There are soooo many other references you can use than a political one. Poor judgement.
No politics!
Uncle Charlie, you anarchist! No politics? Then where would we be?
The first part of your post is pretty accurate. You should have stopped there, and not included the last sentence.
Biden is even funnier
Players are going to cost numerous of their members jobs. Owners will take rookies over middle of the road veterans to keep costs down.
Thanks a lot gents….thanks for everything
Clowns one and all
You went for line drawings and you f***** up!
Because you never studied your holy homework!
That’s two capital H’s there…
This is so disappointing but also expected.
Completely unacceptable
This whole thing is an embarrassment to Abner Doubleday himself
great reference
Everyone loses now, but especially the fans. This is what two months of doing nothing gets you in the end when the sides are this far apart. What a sad day for the game.
Also employees that work at stadium to help with extra money coming in aside from regular work.
And all the bars and restaurants around popular parks.
Those are the people who will be affected the most who don’t have a vote at the table
Hope they kill their own sport
They’re doing one hell of a job
F em all
Playoff hockey soon. Fast, fun.
Support your local minor league baseball team.
Gerrit Cole and his contract can’t make the Yankees a serious contender.
Already printed my Tampa Tarpons schedule..
Minor league ball is way more fun anyway! You can get a lot closer to the action and all the sounds of bat, ball, mitt, umpires and players yakking at each other.
Neither side gives a crap about the fans. Billionaires vs millionaires. I hope they cancel the whole season.
Noooooo
This is entirely on the owners. You do realize they could be playing right now if the owners didn’t lock them out right? There is still a prior agreement in place of his season.
Stop saying that, there is no prior agreement in place. How do you get such dumb info and then just puke it out into the world?
You are wrong about that. The lockout is just a tool used to negotiate and more importantly, it prevents the players from striking. It was smart of the owners to do this; otherwise the player’s strategy would have been to agree to a one year extension on the current CBA, play through August or September so they get most of their paychecks and then go on strike, cancelling the playoffs (after they earned all of their money). That would have been disastrous for the game. The blame lies equally on both sides for not being reasonable. Neither side is going to get all they want and I thought the owners made a great proposal yesterday, which the players unanimously declined. It sure felt like they were close but the MLBPA poured cold water on all of the progress they had made. Now we’re going back to both sides retreating and we’re in for a significant work stoppage. I hope both sides lose tons of money over this…they are acting like children.
This is actually what the owners want you to think – that they were close to a deal. That way, they can blame the players for the lost games. In reality, they were (potentially) still hundreds of millions apart. The luxury numbers were a substantial difference, one where it seems like the players had moved more than the owners had.
“Today is a sad day. We came to Florida to navigate and negotiate for a fair collective bargaining agreement. Despite meeting daily, there is still significant work to be done,” MLBPA executive Tony Clark said Tuesday. “The reason we are not playing is simple: a lockout is the ultimate economic weapon. In a 10 billion dollar industry, the owners have decided to use this weapon against the greatest asset they have: the players.”
Both sides are part of the issue but it’s the owner’s lockout and responsibility, plain and simple!
It sucks for the fans in the end no matter what, who, how or why any of this is happening!
And that’s Real!
As long as the owners insisted on increasing the CBT threshold by less than 5% then freezing it for three years, making the de facto salary cap even harder than it was, they were never close. And the owners knew that.
I agree with all but the point of the owners not being responsible. The players even earning the minimum are being paid a king’s ransom with incredible benefits. When is enough enough for them? The whole argument of well the owners made record profits is laughable. That’s the whole point of owning a business is to turn a profit, and become as wealthy as you can as the owner of said business. It’s not ” oh I made a profit , now I think I’ll say screw it to basic economist of running a business and controllable cost and say hey come here employees, I’ve decided to just distribute my profit out and split it 50/50 and make sure you get a raise of %68 above the cost of living.
Dumb f%#ks!
A true and final offer with 100% honest intent to resolve negotiations would be close to center between any outstanding differences (or on average at least, e.g., giving up on one thing and going full on your end on another). Another slight inching or incremental move never resolves a negotiation. Why even bother to offer it?
The owners have made a mockery of the negotiating process from the beginning. This is their lockout. Any delay to the start of the season is the result of their greed and disrespect for the people who actually matter: the fans and the players.
Nope the fans are at fault.
Fans are at fault for putting up with this for too long and enabling the players to blackmail the owners. I know I’m in the minority but I know I’m not alone in being perfectly fine with the game going away for a couple of seasons and coming back reset with a much weaker union and much lower salaries and much cheaper at game experience.
Well said
Both sides are at fault. Name one thing the players were losing from the last CBA. Then name everything they were getting in increases or new items. I get the owners could negotiate more but I don’t feel for the players either.
How is this the players’ fault? Teams receive hundreds of millions of dollars cumulatively in player value that far exceeds pre-free agency salaries and even more from salary suppression in the form of the competitive balance tax. Juan Soto alone would have earned $45 million a year the past few seasons if he had been paid fair market value, and all the other underpaid players’ salaries add up to free value in the pockets of the teams.
Fair market value!!! what Pro sport has fair market value? it’s a league which needs competition.
Soto is not getting 45M a year. He turned down 35M a year and I’m supposed to cry for him?
The story above about the lockout is misleading. Sure the owners locked the players out, but if they didn’t, the players, who would not have a CBA, could go on strike at any time – likely right before playoffs.
The fact that it is a lockout is irrelevant.
@Ducey – The key word there is “could”. The fact is the owners locked the players out then refused to negotiate for over 40 days.
The players association has made as much a mockery of it as the owners. Neither side is bargaining in good faith. Leadership on both sides needs to go. Both sides are acting like spoiled brats
The midpoint between arbitrary numbers is not inherently “fair and reasonable”.
If my house has comps at $500k but I list it for $1 million.. is the fair price now the midpoint at $750k?… well, maybe a bad example in this housing market.. it might sell day one for $1.1 million, haha.
Why bother to call it a final offer…. Both sides will eventually start losing more money then they can or want to afford
Meeting in the middle with some of the crazy money expectations of the MLBPA would be unprecedented and unexpected. The players want the moon and the stars.
The Union must have the dumbest leadership in the world to not see this is a pretty good win deal for them. IF they walk away now they will be sorry. They will lose fans and say good bye to future 45M annual salaries for anybody let alone 37 year olds.
They should also take the 14 team playoffs as will amount to more teams spending to get into the playoffs. 16 teams would be better but that is not happening.
More teams will result in less teams spending. Teams that are just above the cellar dwellers will figure they will have a decent shot to make the playoffs without spending extra. 16 teams would be absurd.
The union is not dumb. This is their chance to make substantial changes in regards to younger players and not caving right now would be foolish.
How many younger players would gain by the proposed pre arbitration pool? 10% maybe based on what the requirements were? They already were given $700K minimum salary which is $130k per year higher than now (18.5% increase). That is really all that affects the “younger players.
I disagree with the notion that the teams in in the lower echelon of the playoffs would not spend money to make it. Teams make more money in the postseason, why would they just sit on their hands if they are close to getting those extra games?
@ 25 man – Don’t all teams share in the playoff money regardless if their team makes it or not?
2021 there was $90M split between only the 10 teams that made the playoffs, a record amount.. I think TV deals are evenly split, but gate, concessions and memorabilia are not split with every MLB club. Somewhere along the line, the commissioner’s office gets 15% off the top, unless that changes in the last CBA
Sorry you are wrong and that theory is just a dust covered relic people keep wanting to drag out as an argument even though it has been proven false so many times. Most recent example is 2020 when teams like the Blue Jays and marlins were out spending money to bring in players that they would NEVER have brought in under the current system. You think 2020 Miami goes out and gets Starling Marte without that playoff shot even though they were only going to be the eighth seed…no sorry not happening. So you people need to find a new argument.
VT, you’re half right. The union actually is very dumb.
Tony Clark needs to go…
People blaming sides I find funny. Who cares whose fault it is. Neither side is going broke. The worst teams in baseball are highly profitable. The lowest payed player is making a lot more than me. They will figure it out eventually.
The union does have the worst leadership in the world, not counting Russia…they might have the worst leadership in the world…
I was cautiously optimistic. I think declining is probably a misstep by the union…of course we haven’t heard all the details of the “best and final offer.”
Sigh.
The only way any of this ever changes is if none of us watch a single game going forward
True, but I’ll still watch the very moment that the first spring training game is aired. Not to sound crass, but the amount of money that owners or players make has no bearing on my life. I don’t mean this as a denouncement of either side; the feud just isn’t relevant to my little slice of the world. To me, the game is the product. The owners and players are replaceable parts. Every year players retire, are DFA’d, or flame out and every year there is a crop of exciting young players to take their place. Every few years a owner sells the team, and yet the game is still played. I’m just fine with waiting for owners and players to hash things out. I’m certainly interested in the debate, hence reading all the MLBTR articles, but when it comes to how they slice up that pie…well, I have my own finances to attend to.
I wish my city would replace my baseball team with an MLS team.
What city?
What the heck ? What happened to all the hope and promise from last night ? The players got increased min salaries and 30 million in player bonuses they didn’t have before. Is this really over CBT increases? MLB wtf! Wtf on both sides.
Yes. CBT that acts as an even harder de facto salary cap.
One issue, mainly. But they’ll die on that hill.
Sigh
I’m on the Owners side by now.
Owners never wanted a fair deal, they wanted their deal. You can’t lock someone out then make you first proposal 6 weeks later if youre acting in good faith.
First off, there was no other option to a lock out after the players ruined the season by striking the season they weren’t locked out. Secondly, how can you say that the players weren’t getting a fair deal when all they were offered were new things or significantly higher numbers to what they had?
But—as BirdieMan says above—why did the owners wait 6 weeks before offering a plan? The more I watched this play out, it was obvious the owners were not acting in good faith.
Locking them out is one thing. Sitting on your hands for 6 weeks was inexcuseable
Both sides had phones in their hands at all times, if Yelich had the time to do Tik toks he could’ve called Manfred
Either are the players
With literally millions of dollars available to every person in MLB, owners and players alike, any and every deal is a fair deal. All of them are rich, and getting richer off of the backs of the fans. All for being involved in the game they love. No sympathy for any of them.
The current offer is a pretty fair deal with a substantial increase to min salary, new money in the pre arb pool and other gains the union got. The union has only gained from the last CBA minus the 12 playoff teams, although there is more logic in thinking those extra slots may entice some mid tier teams to spend more so the union acting like it’s a concession I am not sure is fair.
If owners would raise CBT and players still rejected then it’s on them. That would be a lopsided deal in their favor coming from the previous CBA, which is where negotiations should begin.
Both sides should vote on a 1 yr extension to current CBA with the increased min salary and 12 team playoff as the trade offs. Then Tony Clark can screw it up again next offseason. Both sides should want the season to start already and move on from this fiasco and kick the can you next offseason.
What would be the union’s incentive to do this? Why would they give up the one big give in their possession (the playoff expansion) for just a one year extension? What happens next year? The owners would have ALL of the cards.
good. the owners are a joke. they’re not even really negotiating. They’re acting like children throwing a fit about having to compromise in any real way. I’d rather not have baseball than get what we’ve been getting under the current CBA.
What a ridiculous comment. You’d rather have no baseball other what we’ve been getting under the current CBA? What exactly would be different for the fans if the players got a higher CBT and pre arbitration pool? Teams will still tank and the top teams will still spend. The middle class will work within a budget.
Yes, the current CBA disincentives winning so much and the on field product has suffered so much because of it and all of it is tied back to the CBA. Tanking, refusing to spend on middle class FAs, holding back prospects, the back and forth of guys going to the minors for service time manipulation, teams like Oakland and Pittsburg literally competing for 3 maybe 4 years before selling and losing on purpose for 5-7 years. and it’s just going to get worse and the on field product is just going to get worse unless its addressed. I’m fine with losing one season of what has become almost unwatchable baseball if that means that stuff is dealt in a meaningful way.
The players are just as bad as the owners
We’ve been getting? fans really really relate to the players don’t they. My gosh what a telling choice of wording. Fans like you think baseball players are an example of income inequality. smh
I’m not looking at this as some kind of social experiment. I just want to watch baseball.
America needs a third political party and a new main professional baseball league.
Agreed. The two parties, and the two sides of baseball, are farther apart than they’ve ever been, and more stubborn about not compromising at all.
Yes, both without extreme ideologies.
I don’t get all the anger at the MLBPA here. The MLBPA showed during the negotiations that it was willing to actually negotiate, move on major issues, abandon entire issues entirely, etc. The owners have shown no such thing.
They’re all brainwashed at this point.
What did the players lose in these negotiations? They went in sky high and still got a pretty favorable offer. Why should the union get such large increases over the previous CBA anyways? You cant just say we want 115M in new money for this new program we invented just now. “Ok, well maybe we can offer this, but where did you pull that 115 number out of?”. There was no base to build off of there. The union just threw it out there and acted as if that number was fair when who the hell knows if it was fair or not. It’s completely new spending.
Vtbaseball.. all about perspective.
Example, it is often cited that franchise values have risen tremendously. According to Statista, the average has gone up from $605 million to $1.9 billion over the last 10 years.
Many look at that and say “wow, that is huge!”. Put those same numbers in front of a finance profesional and he will calculate a growth rate of roughly 12% (CAGR formula) and label it mediocre. It was a little better than the broad US stock market, but slightly worse than the S&P 500, which is the most popular benchmark.
What’s more is that it is assuming there is no growth in business debt over this period.. if debt has grown, that return could be far worse. Also consider this is league wide average. There will be some above and below that. It probably stands to reason that big market clubs grew more than average, small market teams less than average.
By no means does this paint the entire picture of a team’s profitability.. but it just goes to show that the same piece of information in the hands of two different people can mean something completely different.
Well put
We can (and people do) argue what the players deserve. What I think is pretty straight-forward though is that players asked for a lot. These were not incremental changes, they were massive.
My biggest concern with the PA proposal was the potential impact on competitive balance. As it stands now, a well-run club in any size market can compete. That’s not to say I was against all their initiatives.. I hated the QO and I’m glad the league was going to ditch that. The bonus pool was a great idea and most of us can get behind increased minimum salaries.
Really, what have the player relinquished from the former CBA? I’ll wait.
You are joking, right?!
Manfred and Clark can go f@&k themselves. Or each other, who cares. They are both representing two of the greediest groups of individuals on earth. So many fans about to say who needs baseball and find other forms of entertainment. Including THIS fan.
Max Scherzer f@#$ked this up!
I don’t like current players being union reps. In workplaces it’s sort of necessary although many have shifted and hired dedicated staff to run the union.
It’s embarrassing
If you don’t like the owners offer, form a new league. I’m sure someone will purchase media rights. A lot of star power on the board for the union. Now I know this will never happen and sadly they will agree somewhere in the middle after missing part of the season but players should really consider this even though I know it would be a huge challenge.
The Players League in 1890 did very well attendance-wise. Too bad it was not able to last.
The Hounds of war loose, BS job and now baseballess. F…ng Life!
Can we just have football year round. Baseball sucks now!
The NFL blows!
God no! Too much football as it is.
The NFL is an embarrassment.
Maybe USFL can start up again, playing in the spring. We won’t need baseball. They’ve been ruining it for years now, anyway.
Absurd that both sides haven’t been able to come to an agreement. I’ve seen a lot of pro-player views but I can’t relate tbh. Both clearly do not care about the fans. Sad to see another dagger put into an unfortunately dying sport.
I’m tired of the darn greedy ballplayers! They’re making way too much money as is.
No one held a gun to any owners head to sign them. If you had multiple people willing to pay for your services, would you take the lowest offer?
I know. The money should all go to the owners. It’s a good point. The ones who set the prices so high for everyone to watch a game. They deserve it.
#OwnershipRules! Pay them the billions. I agree. Who wants the players of the sport to make money. I mean, most of them didn’t even go to the Ivy League colleges the owners’ parents paid for their own children to go to, right?
Locking them out is one thing. Sitting on your hands for 6 weeks was inexcusable
All this in my year before free agency? We should had pizza instead of tacos. Smh
I commend the players for taking a stand and for fighting for what they rightfully deserve. I love baseball but I would prefer to wait until a fair deal has been agreed upon. What the MLB has offered so far is not in the best interests of the game.
I know this is an emotional time and many of us cant relate to the dollars being discussed but if you have a close look at whats happening you will realise the players deserve better
Some of the players deserve better, but not the ones with the outrageous 10yr $250mil plus contracts…. How much did Pujols make last year?
“That’s in line with other allegations by those on the players’ side who believe the league exaggerated the extent of the progress made last night in order to frame today’s lack of agreement as the fault of the union.”
This is what so many people (e.g. politicians, media personalities, company owners) do today. They craft their own narrative to frame a position for the media, knowing a gullible or hopeful public will buy it. Folks, the owners are lying.
@holden – you nailed it. The same people who have been duped by politicians have been duped by the owners.
They might be lying about having made progress, but that doesn’t instantly make them the bad guys. There is no difference in the stubbornly proud, recalcitrant, uncompromising, unreasonable behavior from both sides.
I’m turning in my Angels mini plan and seeing some local Long Beach, Fullerton, and Northridge college baseball. I’m sure they’ll win me back at some point but I don’t want to give MLB any of my money.
I’ve done exactly the same. Haven’t renewed my plan, spent last Saturday at Long Beach State with my family and loved it.
I love time at the ballpark with my family. Doesn’t have to be an MLB one.
They will not give you your money back. They will just credit your account.
Another year that the Yankees don’t make the World Series.
I feel like having big money guys like Cole and Scherzer at the negotiating table isn’t the best strategy because there’s no way they have the lower paid players’ best interests in mind.
Player reps are elected by the players.
MC TIM… Exactly.. having the highest paid players in the league as your reps is a very bad idea… They’ve made their money so they think they’re going to say to the little guy. Hey you got to hold out .You got to be strong.. well if they miss one single paycheck it can be very bad… They need to have guys that are in their first few years in the league as representatives
@youboys84- So, which is it, man? You’re worried about things going to be very bad for the younger players or not? Your words, “I have no empathy for someone who’s minimum salaries are north of $500,000 a year…”
If that was the case they would have accepted the mlb’s offer. They don’t have final say, they are just reps. Common sense.
Do you think an entire season being cancelled would change some attitudes? I’d like to see what happens if both sides were to lose a full season of revenue.
Not as damaging to the owners as it is to the players…… and the owners know that. Owners don’t just own the baseball team. They have their hands in many other forms of assets.
That’s such a bad take.
Do you think anyone is going to pay the owners BILLIONS, for no games?
No TV money and the owners won’t be owning teams anymore.
Pu$$ies
Replacement players?????
Good… all pro and D1 sports are rigged cesspools run by mafias around the world anyways. Baseball is no different. Frankly, there are more important things going on in the world to worry about anyway. Time to move on.
This is on the plate of the owners. Plain and simple. Shrewd business and PR moves to try and lull the MLBPA into a bad position shows who is truly at fault. So tired of people at the top always getting their way and always forcing everyone else to do exactly what they want.
Quit complaining about players and owners. The ones really getting hurt are the vendors, the ticket takers, the ushers, etc.
THE EVERY DAY HUMANS SUPPORTING A FAMILY ON LESS THAN $40 K
“We are done. This was always (the league’s) plan.” That’s in line with other allegations by those on the players’ side who believe the league exaggerated the extent of the progress made last night in order to frame today’s lack of agreement as the fault of the union.”
That’s preposterous. The VAST majority of the press is on the player’s side. So who is going to frame this as the fault of the Union?
Both sides are full of crap.
Always amazes me about the millionaires vs. billionaires’ argument. Most of the owners are billionaires, but a significant number of the players are not. For every Mike Trout or Max Scherzer out there, there are guys who are making pennies compared to them to afford teams to pay out the higher salaries. The MLBPA is trying to help the young bullpen guy or the backup catcher not the guys who have made their money. The ownes have zero problem paying a star huge money, but drag their feet when a young player or backup would like a bigger piece of the pie. Keep in mind, most player’s careers are short and an additional hundred thousand a year when the league is taking in huge money seems very fair to me.
Glad at least one other fan gets it.
The MLB minimum salary last year was $570,500. “Guys making pennies” my ass.
It’s a bunch of rich guys trying to get more rich, fans be damned.
Why should replaceable fodder get paid? They don’t offer a great deal of value. This isn’t a charity. Matt Thies made got a two million dollar signing bonus and can be replaced the Angels 50th best prospect. If he’s ever good enough to sitck around, A prorated 700,000 dollar salary is fine.
However, the young players that do offer value, should get paid.
Do you want to know why most young players don’t get paid…It’s because they are fodder and easily replaced. As I said, this isn’t a charity.
Thank you! Most people don’t seem to grasp that.
You are correct. This is for the 65% of MLB rosters that are pre arbitration.
And I’ll ask again, why should the fodder get paid? These players are very replaceable and don’t have much value.
This isn’t a charity. The young players that do provide value should get paid.
I have a degree of sympathy for the bullpen catcher, the last guy on the bench, etc. However, baseball is a performance based job. If you want paid more, get better at it. Most people who want a raise or promotion have to work harder and earn it.
The last guy on the bench makes good money, provided he can stay the last guy on the bench.
Seems like my boys won’t be the only WS Champs*.
College baseball is off to a great start.
Minor league baseball kicks off soon.
Plenty of places to take family and friends out to enjoy a ballgame. Cheaper, too.
That’s my plan until MLB comes back…unless we find we like the other options better.
The players made significant gains with this deal, but instead are trying to shoot for the moon. They should take this deal and then build on it with the next CBA. Now they will end up with a worse deal and damage the sport while they’re at it.
Simple solution: cut out the owners. We have a handful of criminals who always take money from taxpayers for stadiums, transport, tax breaks, etc — “socialism” for the rich. Tampa owner wants 350 mil from taxpayers for HALF a new stadium when he paid 200 mil for the WHOLE TEAM! For that money taxpayers should own the whole team. That should be true of all the teams. City/region/fan control just like the Packers and many soccer teams. Instead of taxpayer money going to rich guys who use it to buy superyachts, UK soccer teams, and US presidents, the money goes to fan control of our national sport.
Guess the unemployment claims will start…..
I agree with the owners to an extent. Half the league can’t even afford to hit the current tax threshold it doesn’t need to be raised. Soto just turned down 350 mil, and reportedly wants 50 mil a year… take it easy it already costs $200 for a descent seat at a ballgame anymore. Raising the tax threshold will further kill small market teams, and further raise ticket prices. The salaries for the lower end players (including minor leaguers) need to be raised and per annual caps need to be added so players can’t make half of the team payroll per year. A cap of 30 mil sounds about right to me. Team owners should also build housing complexes at all of their minor league sites for players who financially qualify.
EXACTLY!!.. The offer to Juan Soto would have paid him what $27 million a year for the entire contract?? That would have set his family up for YEARS!! But he has Scott Boris whispering in his ear hey I can get you 50 million a year…Makes Me sick. There has to be an end to these escalating salaries…. I don’t care how much money the owners make. They’re the owners for a reason…
Here’s the solution, LET SOTO BE A FREE AGENT RIGHT NOW.
Let’s see what his true market value is.
Here’s my thought on what a free market offer for Soto would be, 600/10
This solution just adds to the already escalating problems there are 32 teams in baseball maybe 10 can put forth that kind of offer. Makes for bad baseball
27 million for one year would set his family up for life, let alone multiple years
Mets spend all this cash and won’t be able to win anything this year what a shame for them.Next year when they don’t win squat they will blame the lockout for that too.
The owners are pigs. I hope (and no longer care if) the season is canceled. Or even 2023.
B.S. The owner’s offer was neither their “best”, nor their “final”.
They have been negotiating like players and fans are financially illiterate. All the players asks are legitimate, aside from the luxury tax and salary cap numbers. That needs middle ground, but the way owners abuse super two rules and draft pick compensation had hurt the game gravely. These kids need to have paths to the bigs without owners stashing them in AAA with nothing more to prove.
Believe me. It was the “best” offer. Players are just being greedy!
So let me get this straight?? Players want the CBT to be at 263 million by the end of this new CBA? Thus allowing for the Dodgers, Yankees, and Red Sox of the league to continue to have a DISTINCT advantage over every other team? Yeah..sounds like a “Competitive” balance tax to me…hahaha. This all STINKS for us Die-Hard, Lifelong fans, but it is starting to get old with me, in a hurry… Walker Buehler said It’s not millionaires versus billionaires. It’s workers versus management?? Sure buddy…. Whatever you’re entitled self wants to believe… Many of these players, if not a vast majority of them outside of being able to hit a baseball or throw a baseball 98MPH.. certainly don’t have any other life skills that would pay them this well… I have no empathy for someone who’s minimum salaries are north of $500,000 a year…. Increasing to $700,000 a year starting in year one…
. The owners are billioanaires. I think every single one of them,baseball, to them is a toy, a hobby, a fancy… This nonsense going on today has shown me undoubtedly that neither side gives a damn about us fans… And Tony Clark.. don’t even get me started. One of the biggest busts in Detroit Tigers draft history. Guy thinks he’s the Messiah now…Terrible leadership and Manfred is helping to ruin the game that we all love …
.
Baseball is a cash cow. Owners are in it for the cash.
So are the players
Tony Clark, biggest bust in union history…
Start the season with scab players, the players will eventually come crawling back once they dont get their 43 million dollar pay check
Good idea. I bet some new stars would be born
Max Scherzer hot temper… came in with agenda and bullied everyone into voting it down.
I wonder if there would be a deal without Scherzer on that board?
That makes no sense. None of the proposals really affect him. As a matter of fact, he stands to lose 230k per cancelled game. Try again.
I don’t know. The guy put himself front and centre with an uncompromising position. Max was going to be the hero of the day was the impression I got. They accept something less than intended and he looks like a fool. Ego is in play. As far as a leader goes, I think they went with star power over intelligence and savvy.
I’m dangerously close to no longer caring. Should free up a considerable amount of time and money this summer.
The owners and players just don’t get it. Attendance and interest in the game is down. Baseball is no longer the national past time. The bargaining process and hostile interaction between players and owners will kill the game.
What a joke! He MLB fans, stop spending your hard earned $ on these bunch of spoiled multi millionaires that seem to be way to greedy to even consider the impact to the game they apparently love, and the fans that ultimately pay for everything. Maybe I will start following Cricket?
You should. Indian Premier League starts 26 March. Runs through to end of May. Richest comp in the game. All the games big guns. Worth a look.
The thing about “making it look like the unions fault” is, outside of Reddit, nobody gives a damn about picking sides. Most baseball fans aren’t thinking “I’m glad there’s no baseball as long as the players win in the end!”
We just want to see baseball.
exactly I think their both greedy idiots but in the end I just want to watch the game
I’m pretty much done with the sport. Analytics imo have ruined the sport now this crap. 94/95 was bad enough but this is going to be even worse.
The one time I didn’t follow MLB very much was during a skateboarding phase around the early 2000s.
You are right! Analytics have ruined baseball. They have taken a lot of the beauty and fun out of the game.
I BLAME THE METS.
Scherzer deal may go down as the worst in baseball history at this rate.
I was beginning to slide towards the “players” side, then this news appears. Enough is enough. NO MORE!!!
The fans once again lose out. This is no longer a sport. Big business once again wins out.
Fans need to agree not to buy tickets or merchandise of MLB. Let them know of our resolve to punish their greed, don’t take sides.
@holden – you nailed it. The same people who have been duped by politicians have been duped by the owners.
Well I am done with mlb for at least two years and I would suggest you do the same and let it be known. We pay their salaries and need to take a stand. They are all spoiled millionaires. I enjoy all of you and baseball too but I am out.
Cannot believe how many stupid people in here are blaming the players in anyway. They have seen their salrays go down for 5 straight season while tv deals and owner profits skyrocket. The value of a team is literally like 20 time more valuable than it was 20 years ag0. The player have given up so much of what they were originally asking for and willing to negotiate and compromise. The owners have conceded hardly anything and they are the ones making deadline and drawing lines in the sand. Players are the product and should get everything they can because without them there is no game.
@ Jeff K – There are a lot of people these days who’ve been recently emboldened to voice their stupidity. It’s hilarious that they all pat each other on the back too for their foolish comments.
vtbaseball — So calling people names shows what? Everyone on this site has opinions. Get used to it.
The irony of your post is hilarious.
Yea but the players salaries are more then 20 times higher then it was 20 years ago. Both sides are to blame end of story.
My issue is that a lot of what the players are asking for is bad for the game. They want no luxury tax or revenue sharing, which is just going to make the league extremely top heavy.
Their proposal to stop service time manipulation is to give players an extra year of service if they finish in the top 3 of ROY/MVP/CY. That will lead to MORE service time manipulation .Why call a guy up in May and risk giving him 2 years of service when you can call him up in July and have a much better chance of just having him just get one year?
The “ghost win” for the division, along with higher seed picking opponent AND getting all home field is just going to make it more appealing to lose and make it into the draft lottery than to go into the playoffs with insurmountable odds.
I’m all for the players getting their due pay. But a solid chunk of their ideas are plain stupid.
I’m really pissed that the Billionaires and the millionaires can’t get together. I guess it’s good that I’m pissed because that means I still care. The league should really be concerned if the majority of us just start to not care then the league has real problems.
I don’t believe that to be true. Baseball is hurting and we are not stupid people. Just don’t believe ball players should be making 400,000,000 a year.
On the contrary, other guys can come in and play the game. Without someone putting up the capital and taking the risk of a financial investment, there is no game.
I have bad news for the players – the beer is still cold, the dogs taste great and the summer sun still feels nice. Bring on replacements and play ball.
8 and a half times greater, but who’s counting?
Interesting that a person who spells “salaries” as “salarys” considers others to be stupid 🙂
There’s also no game without the owners. Just as their is no movies without studios, producers, and directors even though the actors are the draw. Their are no comedians without clubs and no hot dogs without refrigerated shelves in a grocery store. Nothing exists in a vacuum.
Of course players should get everything they can, as we all should, but we live in a capitalist society. What a product or person is worth is what someone is willing to pay for said product – not what the product says it’s worth. There is not a league in existence who is willing to pay more, but if their is they can play in that league. The owner have less to lose and are leveraging that position. You may not like it, but that’s what business and capitalism is.
Salaries are stagnant, but not for the upper tier, much like America. Why? Because that’s what the market dictates. You can’t have fat salaries and cushy salaries on your way trying to obtain fat salaries. Capitalism rewards risk takers as it should
The Marlins lost money last year, but they didn’t ask for money back from the players. During 2020 mlb players received full salary (prorated) without being able to sell tickets. The players didn’t give back part of their salaries as owners incurred the same operating costs.
Before calling others stupid you should think a little more.
Outside of possibly Bill Veeck, what owner ever gave a damn about the fans? At least ballplayers used to autograph for free.
And why did the free autographs begin to fade out? Because “fans” began to take those free autographs and monetize them – resell them. It was no longer a nice thing for some kids, it was a number of hucksters trying to work a hustle.
Guess we’ll be having football first?
MC TIM… Exactly.. having the highest paid players in the league as your reps is a very bad idea… They’ve made their money so they think they’re going to say to the little guy. Hey you got to hold out .You got to be strong.. well if they miss one single paycheck it can be very bad… They need to have guys that are in their first few years in the league as representatives
So they worked till 1am and then couldn’t agree. Congress at least can agree when a deadline comes.
Restrict players salary’s? God forbid…can anyone say 100 million dollar club? For f..k sakes, stop being so greedy and play ball
The fans ought to declare war on MLB. No tickets, no merchandise, no nothing. This is all the doing of the owners. This was their plan all along. Time to punish them and hit them where it hurts, their bottom line.
It’s not all on the owners. Some of the players’ demands have been ridiculous and, while they’ve been more willing to negotiate than the owners, it’s still been this slow, weekly proposal that concedes 2% or less every time. This is on both sides, just perhaps slightly more on the owners’ side.
@beyou2215 You’re right. We should.
It isn’t all the owners. Blame and stubbornness and greed is equal on both sides
“A person associated with the MLBPA told Evan Petzold of the Detroit Free Press, “We are done. This was always (the league’s) plan.””
This was, in fact, always the plan, as I have been saying for months.
Drag their feet, toss a few crumbs and expect without a doubt that the players will cave.
The owners expected a cake walk and now the only path is for each side to show a greater willingness to damage the game than the other side.
Both sides are being dumb. Do any of them remember how much attendance went down after 1994? Fans didn’t come back until a PED-fueled HR chase several years later. Is risking that really worth less than splitting the difference on a lot of these differences and honestly trying to make a deal? 50% of $1B is worth more than 70% of $600M.
The greedy players can take their balls, bats and gloves and go pound sand! The hell with baseball. Too frigging expensive any way to take my family.
As salaries go up, so do ticket prices. The players make millions while the average person can’t even afford to attend a game.
Not anymore, not for many years. Ticket prices go up because fans will pay a larger price. Those forces are largely independent of player salaries. Player salaries are more often tied to things like TV contracts.
Yeah, I guess that’s right.
I’m old and remember the 1981 labor issue and I cared a lot more then. In 1994 I didn’t care as much and now meh. I follow the sport and live it but I’ll survive just like all of the other fans of the game. It’s sad, however, for the stadium crews and people who depend on the game for their livelihood. Bet they won’t see any stipend from ownership or some bucks from the MLPA strike fund.
I remember the 72 player’s strike. And when did they strike? right before the season started.
Let’s get this out of the way now.
Piss on the greedy MLBPA
And the league. We’re gonna have to drink more to make enough piss. The sacrifices we make as fans…
No, piss on the greedy, old white-haired owners who have no clue.
When it comes to having no clue, the owners have nothing on the players association.
Replacement players. PLEASE!
I agree. I bet we would see some good baseball.
As Jim Rome would say “Good Night Now”
I don’t take a side, but the whole thing is sad for the sport. I am sure both sides know they will be losing a lot of money which they may never get back.
I am thru with MLB. Rob Manfred has destroyed the National past time!!
Well, not just Rob Manfred; Tony Clark, too. They are both clueless.
Ok, why not just throw ALL income revenues into one pool, then divid it equally betwen the teans first, and then teams split that equal share between their owners and players, once the clubs costs are covered….thus all is equall revenue sharing ? The owners extra incuurred costs for staffing, travel and facilities are also removed from the arguments this way…who knows. all seems avoidable if both sides were truly engaged, and motivated and not as just plain money hungry and motivated….apparently.
Thank goodness my MLB.TV subscription has been rolling over season-season at no charge to me. Not going to spend any money on these pleabs.
How’d you pull that off? Asking for a friend.
Curious to hear the owners’ “best” offer. I mean the owners keep trying to manipulate language to make the players look bad, but I don’t think anyone is being fooled. And don’t get me wrong, I’m not happy with the players either, but they do have some legitimate gripes.
The players will eventually fold. The Trouts of the league will be just fine but all the lower end salaried players that can’t afford their lifestyles without a paycheck are gonna start barking soon. Meanwhile Team owners can still sell merchandise, and they can still rent their stadiums out to different venues. Oh and they are billionaires. Team owners have more leverage and know it, and will simply wait it out.
sounds like Rob Manfred wanted to cancel games all along
I like the shorter season, bring it on
Bring some replacement players in. Get some players used in the Major League Movies and The Naked Gun Movie. I wanna see the OF lose his head trying to make a over the wall catch. Or. Tiger tackle a runner sliding into 2B. BRING IT ON!!
Time to move on to another sport. Too much time is spent on a bunch of whiny Millionaires and whiny Billionaires.
Pain.
Selig, Vincent Euberroth, Kuhn……all would have driven this thing to a settlement. Instead, we get Manfred set to announce “no end in sight”/games cancelled. So weak.
Manfred is a tool. He’s even worse than Bettman who is horrible for the NHL
Bettman has taken the NHL from a $400 million league with no national TV deal and 21 teams to a $5 billion 32 league and the game is better than ever.
But, you are right than Manfred is a tool.
He’s just a puppet for the owners, who are trying to show the players once and for all who’s boss.
I am feeling pretty good about my buying tickets to opening day in Toledo instead of Detroit. After 42 consecutive opening days in Detroit, I will continue my streak elsewhere.
This best and final offer proves these owners are as dumb as a box of rock and stubborn as mules. Had they countered the CBT with an offer of $230M in 2022 and increased it $5M every year until they hit $250M in 2026 I have to believe the players would have accepted it. I’ll give the owners credit for increasing the minimum salary, wh/ the players should have taken and the lottery/post season offers should not have been deemed significant enough to reject the offer.
With the players anchor in these negotiations being the CBT its hard to believe the Owners being so blind to this fact and not giving more in order to resolve this lockout. This is now on the Owners and I doubt we’ll see MLB Baseball until the 4th of July at this point. By then it will be too late as we’ll all be looking forward to the start of the NFL pre-season and College Football,
RIP MLB you’ve got what you asked for!
Well, I guess I am going to be watching minor league baseball all year. Good riddence.
MLB’s PR program working beautifully, given the number of commenters who seem ready to blame the players for everything and insist that it’s just greed, and they are ready for replacement players, etc.
So, friends, let’s get real. Minor league baseball is not very profitable, and they pay the players in Fritos. Minor league ticket prices are a fan’s dream, but, guess what, fans don’t turn out in droves for lower-level performance…because they want to see the best players they can. If you really are ready to pay top dollar for sub-replacement-level players, well, the Owners are certainly willing to cut ticket prices by…..oh, 3%.
It’s not MLB’s PR.
Some people have been conditioned to grovel and beg and wash their bosses car with their tongues because they think that’s how the money falls down on them from the sky and if they don’t, it won’t.
They take pride in it.
Folks, go watch a college or high school game instead of arrogant greedy privileged a-holes
Players’ wants were unrealistic when considering how firm the League held to their core. It seems today’s ultimatum was testing whether the Players’ were really negotiating in good faith, or at least that is how the league managed it.
Players’ should have realized they weren’t going to get their dream-ask and should have made their own ultimatum that was reasonably close to the owners. Instead, they danced around the reality until the owners hit them with it today. Players’ are going to bear the responsibility for being obtuse.
Wrong, wrong, wrong. The owners have lacked any resolve to bargain in good faith. They still think they can dictate everything to the players. Let’s see these old white-haired geezers get on the field and play the game. Nope, won’t work. They better wise up and bargain in good faith or MLB will die. They started the lockout and then made no attempt to negotiate with the players union for 6 weeks! Really! Who are they kidding? They deserve to lose millions in revenue until they wake up and realize they can’t have it all with no real concessions. Utterly stupid and unbelievable.
Have they?
Employee… I want a 100% raise.
Owner… I’ll give you a ten percent raise.
Employee… OK a 50% raise.
Owner… Ten percent.
Employee. You are not bargaining in good faith. You are not even trying to meet me in the middle.
The players have given nothing. Maybe they are right not to give anything, but the owners are the only ones that are giving anything.
I agree Halos. Any negotiation requires both sides to give up something. In this case, the players seem willing to “allow’ advertising on the uniforms in exchange for…
Huge increase in minimum salary, bonus pool for pre-arb players, a lottery for non-contending teams, a modest increase in the CBT, the universal DH (which both sides apparently want)…
and the MLBPA insists on more.. What are they offering in exchange?
So you’re blaming the owners for not accepting, what one could easily consider as unreasonable demands compared to the prior CBA, proposed by the MLBPA during negotiations as ‘bad faith’.
But isn’t that the same thing the MLBPA did by not accepting the latest proposal by the Owners that did improve on the last CBA? Most of the recent complaints of MLBPA are because has acted in bad faith.
Now, if you think that the Owners purposely chose to make an ultimatum when the players weren’t willing to agree to make them appear in bad faith to excuse them from coming to the table, then there is an argument. But to make that claim there needs to be evidence to support this logic. If there is, then sure I’d agree.
But until there is some form of evidence the league was planning that deeply, knowing the MLBPA’s greed, then I’m not buying it. MLBPA is just too guilty of self-deception about their own greed at this point for them to be the one I support. There just seems to be smaller concessions that they could receive if they weren’t trying to hit only home runs. Kind of ironic considering how they play game (Homers or bust).
And the players have bargained in good faith? Ha!
The owners are destroying the game.
The owners should hire replacement players. that actually love the game!
Not without the players help
There are 300 D1 NCAA baseball programs. Over 3000 Jrs and Seniors. Hold a draft, each MLB team gets to choose 10 schools, they will each have in excess of 100 players to work with. Take out those who would have been drafted and there will still be 80 or so ball players per team. Offer those guys contracts and play on. What can the union do to them, they weren’t going to be drafted or make the majors. They are talented ballplayers who play because they love the game and now have an opportunity to wear MLB uniforms.
Go Celtics!!!
My prediction of a deal by Wednesday looks in danger!
My fear this morning is all the positive info from last night was only coming from one side–the owners. This has been scripted so far by management. A lockout, no bargaining for six weeks by owners, then no movement on significant issues, a self-imposed deadline by owners, and only 24-hours prior did owners attempt to negotiate, while ownership tried to force the deal to be signed last night.
This has been the first opportunity for the MLBPA to turn the tables on ownership to negotiate a better deal. Just hurry up and make it by Wednesday!
I predict a deal by spring training, 2047
2047 World Series…
Oklahoma City Red Wolves over Vancouver Sharks
F I U players you greedy pos sorry excuses- fire that arrogant pos bad faith Tony Clark- he is the problem.
Amen!
MLB did not say this was their final offer. They said they were offering their best offer.
That’s what I heard on the MLB Channel and Manfred stated this in his press conference.
This story is wrong saying it was their final.
Well, we know all offers exchanged so far are not final offers because there is no deal.
All very sad. Not sure who is right and who is wrong in this negotiation. I only know that two years of Covid and all of its ramifications, Russia bombing Ukraine….baseball would hopefully be a respite and bring joy to so very tired and mentally worn out people that desperately need an escape. Instead it only adds more angst and anxiety to that segment of the population that follows this great sport. I think that MLB is missing out on a great opportunity and this will only alienate a large number of current and potential future fans. Sad!
I blame the players 100%. Their demands are irrational. They have it so good. Owners own the team for as long as they want, players only get to play for a few years. Every missed game is a game they’ll never get back.
Exactly
You are so misguided. It is the owner’s greed this time. They ineffectively have tried to blame the players. Now these fat cat owners will finally get what they deserve. Lack of income due to their greed. I hope a few teams go belly up.
Unions destroy another industry. Kudos to Scott Boras for his part. After all, “he got his” already.
It’s such a bad look for baseball and a bad taste in the mouth of fans. Owners and players arguing over dollars while the majority of fans slowly get priced out of being able to go to games. Flipping channels you see Scherzer walking out of the meetings and his $43M per salary while the next channel shows folks fleeing their country. Kind of brings things into perspective and how folks take things for granted while they play a kids game.
I had been 100% on the side of the players. And though the whole “the players are greedy, they play a kids game” bit is beyond moronic, I think they should have taken this deal. At this point I assume the season will be something like the 60 game season from 2020, if there is a season at all. The MLBPA had the high ground and squandered it. Bad form.
As a lifelong, rabid baseball fan I say screw the greedy owners who have no clue. I have better things I can spend my leisure time on. They have truly screwed the pooch and yet I’ll bet they have absolutely no clue. What a bunch of old, greedy and stupid prima donnas they are and I’m talking about the owners, NOT the players. They are trying to blame the players union but guess what? We see through that silly guise. I almost hope a few teams go belly up due to the owner’s lack of common sense. They deserve whatever fate they face. Too bad.
Time to bust the POS union.
Tonight President Biden is going to give the State of the Union address. Spoiler alert, it ain’t good. Someone needs to remind these buffoons their place in this world is to be paid handsomely to be a distraction from real issues and problems.
Gentlemen, you have failed miserably and as a result your reward will be pain and suffering. Way to let your pride trump your common sense.
Perhaps for competitive reasons? The disparity between teams with $75 mil payrolls and teams with $250mil is already wide enough; why would you want to increase that if you’re a small market owner….or fan for that matter?
Competitive reasons? How does capping good, spending owners who want to win, fix bad, selfish, non-spending owners who want to save money? Answer: It doesn’t. It only hurts the rest of the game’s competitiveness.
The Pirates spend $50M out of $118 allocated to them from te total revenue shares for more than one year. How are they even trying? They’re not. They’re saving 68% of the money that’s given to them to be competitive for profitable gains.
McGuire and Sosa arent going to come save the game again. This is it boys. Hell of a run!
It’s up to Acuna this time.
Anyone familiar with labor deals knows that you negotiate off of the last collective bargaining agreement. If you look at the last CBA and the proposed changes that MLB has been willing to make, you see that the latest offer is pretty realistic.
However if you start from the initial player demands, then it looks like the players have made considerable concessions….but that’s not how the process works. One gets the impression the players felt they signed a bad deal last time and this time they expect to either win or “make up” for whatever they didn’t get in the previous CBA. Again, that approach is counterproductive and not conducive to finding common ground.
What happened to the statement “I play this game because I Love It?”
Oh wait now it’s “I play this game because I Love Money”
We all know that owners are in this because of money that has always been transparent.
So it’s definitely the growing greed of the Players and it’s Union vs. the Eternal greed of the Owners.Get it together both of you because we as fans love the game.
I don’t have any issue with the players trying to get theirs…I think their initial asks were an unreasonable starting point, but that’s just my opinion. It’s also my opinion that both sides made a mistake trying to negotiate via the media. Bad look for all parties
I dont understand something! Why would the league annouce they r willing to cancel a months worth of games and why has someone not asked Manfred what the leagues plans r beyond that point? Bc i def dont see a resolution anytime within the next month nor within this year tbh…the league is trying to break the union and they dont understand that that will be an incredibly long process and will destroy the game itself long before it breaks the union….yes players will run out of money, but the licensing fees will provide a years solid salary to all basic(under 1 mil) players, the allstars will survive and a lot of the rest will play in Mexico or the far east…..and yes their foreign limits r already full, but can u see them changing that temporarily to accomodate an influx of mlb talent?? Theyd be like FU MLB lol……when r the owners gonna propose replacement players??? Lolol
they should have ticket lines for owners and players. the money for the ticket you buy can then by added to the players sum, or the owners coffers. take your pick.
Are they also gonna have player’s stadiums and owner’s stadiums? How about broadcasts, training facilities, stadium staff, etc. Acting like the owners don’t contribute to MLB is ignorant.
start the season on time. use the minor leaguers. no need to cancel any games. it’s called, ‘playing hardball.’
Hey players Union, I hear Walmart is hiring.
Has anyone contacted The Rock about starting the XLB?
Any one else have a hard time watching Max Scherzer, someone who is going to be making over $43m per season the next 3 years, say the players are “looking for a fair deal”? What a joke!
Guaranteed money too so if he gets hurt in day 1 or has a down season he still gets his 43 million.
At what point do the owners fire Manfred?
Unfortunately much of this is on the players more than manfred. Demanding an $85 million dollar bonus pool right out the gate, while also demanding $100,000 raise in league minimum are just some of the examples of players asking for the moon out of the shute
WRONG! This is ALL on the owners. They were the one who locked the players out. They where the ones who went 43 days after the lockout to even begin to negotiate. They are the ones who have refused to give anything substantial to the players even after getting concessions from them. Players got screwed with the last CBA and they had every right to ask for the moon given how profitable baseball is for the owners.
Both sides are equally at fault. Both sides, in reality, refuse to budge from their position. We need a federal arbitrator whose decision is binding
These “concessions” they are giving up are from a crazy high starting point…
I’ll agree that both sides are to blame and since I have no personal stake, I’ll leave it to those that do to weigh the risk/reward of this course.
I respect your passion, but I disagree. Let me address your points one by one.
Four of the past labor stoppages were strikes, not lockouts, and one is just as bad as the other. A lockout shifts the power from the players to the owners because it prevents players from going on strike, which they’ve done in the past.
Either side could have submitted a proposal during those 43 days so there’s equal fault to pass around..
The latest proposal from MLB is a significant improvement from the previous CBT, which is what any labor negotiation starts from. I have yet to see what “concessions’ the MLPA has given up, aside from allowing advertising on uniforms. Labor negotiation is giving up something you CURRENTLY have in order to get something you want. MLB has agreed to raise min salaries, establish a lottery pool, raise the CBT tax, add the DH.. What have the players given up in exchange?
If the players feel they got screwed on the last labor negotiation, who is to blame? Both sides negotiated that deal and signed it. Just because one side regrets the deal they signed, doesn’t justify them to “make it up” or shoot for the moon in the next. Negotiations start from the previous/existing labor deal; not from where you wish it was.
The owners are trying to hold onto what they have, just like you and I would. The players are trying to get the most they can, just like you and I would. But so far, I see the owners have given ground and the players are trying to “win’ to offset what they feel was a loss last time, and trying to beat the other side is a bad place to start negotiating from.
When the Cubs won it all in 2016 that was the end of my support of MLB and I went on to watching the Minor League and Independent League games, so this happening truly does not bother me one bit.
Players and Owners forget that they need the fans and ya know what?
I prefer to watch Soccer instead now than watch MLB because I am so over the childish attitude from all sides…
Fans matter but they forget us, so us fans should just say no and tell them to cancel the season.
Baseball is no longer our National Past Time, so say no and just let the league go bankrupt and fold!
Really? Go away then to a soccer.loving.country……
Why am I not surprised by this?
This sport shoots itself in the foot every chance it gets. To hell with them.
If the Players Union does not correct the horrible arbitration issues, this is all for not.
minimum wage in major league baseball is too high
minimum wage in minor league baseball is too low
“For fans, it marks a disheartening end to the past week and a half of daily negotiations.”
Not for this fan. If a deal isn’t fair to the workers, I’m glad they’re using their collective bargaining power to reject it.
RIP =MLB
The MLBPA can go **** off to Hell.
You’re allowed to hate the MLBPA, but there’s a serious lack of antipathy towards owners. We think of ballplayers as workers making millions whereas the majority of us are merely “temporarily embarrassed millionaires” juggling rent payments with our paycheck.
Owners extract tax dollars for stadiums, use their capital as leverage and pull to dictate policies that work in their favor, both on and off-the-field, and literally do nothing but sit on their yachts as their real-estate and derivative valuations go through the roof during a pandemic, all-the-while, they complain that billionaires are suffering too. Neofeudalists.
You’re allowed to dislike players for wanting more when they have well more than any of us. There’s not enough criticism of owners ala the “true non-working class” in society.