MLB’s self-imposed deadline to reach an agreement with the Players Association is today, and Evan Drellich, Ken Rosenthal and Fabian Ardaya of The Athletic report that the league took a “more threatening” tone to the MLBPA today and voiced a willingness to miss a month’s worth of regular-season games (Twitter link). The first meeting between the two parties today lasted only 40 to 45 minutes, tweets Michael Silverman of the Boston Globe, though the expectation is that negotiations will continue throughout the day.
The players have, unsurprisingly, taken that as a clear threat, tweets ESPN’s Jeff Passan, although there’s been no indication to this point that the union’s solidarity has begun to wane. The players have generally taken an exceptionally united front, even in the wake of what was seen as a discouraging counterproposal from the league late last week. There’s been little expectation that the league and union would be able to avoid the “disastrous outcome” of canceled regular season games (as described by commissioner Rob Manfred himself), so the only notable component of that threat is the number of games the league is willing to miss.
The Associated Press estimates that each day of canceled games would result in a collective $20.5MM of missed salary for the players, although it’s worth emphasizing that the union has envisioned just such a hardline tactic from the league for years and has been stockpiling funds to weather this type of storm. MLBTR’s Tim Dierkes reported over the weekend that the league’s strike find is “exponentially” larger than it has ever been (Twitter thread). The MLBPA has been holding back full licensing revenues for years to safeguard against this type of scenario, and the players also spun their licensing department into a separate company, MLB Players Inc.
In doing so, the players afforded themselves the ability to take equity in other companies. Jared Diamond of the Wall Street Journal profiled MLB Players Inc.’s deal with Fanatics over the summer, and they’ve also taken an equity stake in OneTeam Partners. The result is a considerable increase in the union’s funds, and while an exact dollar amount isn’t known, there are a couple pieces of information that can provide relevant benchmarks. An Associated Press report earlier this month indicates the union had as much as $178.5MM at year-end in 2020. An LM-2 Form filed to the U.S. Department of Labor suggests the number was $171.4MM for the 2020 calendar year. Either figure is dated by now, and the size of the fund only figures to have grown.
Notably, players can apply for monthly stipends in the absence of collecting their salaries. The union had provided a pair of $5,000 stipends for February and March, and Drellich and Rosenthal report that the figure will jump to $15,000 beginning on April 1 (when the regular season would be underway). Not all players will apply for that stipend, of course, but in theory even if they did, the 1200 stipends would cost the union a total of $18MM. Add in a pair of (again, theoretical) $6MM payouts for February and March, and it still only taps into $30MM of the union’s funds. Realistically, even based on the 2020 numbers and not accounting for 2021 licensing revenues, the union likely has more than enough capital to make it through the whole season paying out those stipends.
While it’s true that the sport’s biggest stars won’t bat an eye at a $15,000 monthly stipend and may not even file to collect it, that figure is crucial for the union members on the lower rung of the pay scale. Consider players who were just added to 40-man rosters over the winter and those who’ve not yet solidified themselves as big league regulars. Those players could well be looking at spending much of the season in Triple-A, and the $15,000 stipend would largely account for that minor league salary — in some cases, with Double-A and Class-A players who’ve been added to the 40-man roster over the winter, the stipends may even exceed their would-be minor league salaries.
The prospect of lost salaries doesn’t sit well with the union, but the game’s star players who are on lengthy multi-year contracts can surely weather the loss, and those who are most vulnerable are generally taken care of via the monthly stipends. There’s an undeniable middle class who’d be getting squeezed — pre-arbitration players who are solidified on the MLB roster — but those players are among the ones the union is fighting for most ardently, insisting upon increases in minimum salary and pushing for earlier paths into arbitration. Broadly speaking, there’s good reason to believe that even amid the loss of salaries, MLBPA solidarity is likely to remain strong.
Reisdorf, Montfort and other cheap owners driving baseball off a cliff
I have been pretty neutral as far as taking a side but I’m decidedly in the players corner at this point. All indications are that the owners are negotiating in bad faith and are trying to bully the players into taking a substandard deal.
Both are operating in bad faith. The players asked for the moon and haven’t moved very much. Neither side cares about the game
This is not remotely accurate.
That’s exactly the problem. The players have asked for the moon and the owners figure why negotiate against themselves basically
Just lock them out until $178 million is gone. Then let the lockout go one for another month after it’s gone so the guys who need the funds feel what no income is like. Then start negotiations again.
I believe it is
Brilliant! Cancel 2 months of a season in hopes that those who make (at minimum) $570k can’t survive 4 weeks without a paycheck.
The best case scenario for the owners would be to meet the players in the middle at strike a deal.
*Neither side cares about the fans
Unfortuneatley, I doubt the higher end incomes really care about the pikers at the bottom. Of course, most of those pikers will be making in one year more money than most of us will make in a decade.
How are the players asking for the moon when they are not even asking for the share of the pie they received 10-20 years ago?
Dewey, in negotiations, that’s true. They’re not thinking about fans, but they’re both thinking about the money. Long term, it’s the owners who should care the most about fans, because they are the revenue source.
lookouts — I agree,but what I’ve finally come to realize is that whether players are overpaid or not, they are the product and therefore should have a say in their labor rules, especially given that the owners have an absurd monopoly. And I don’t see the owners bargaining in good faith.
Keep underestimating the players, Hammer. It will only make your take all that more wrong. I believe the other day, you mentioned that they would fold as soon as games were missed. Now, that you found out the size of their nest egg, it’s just wait that out. Because, yeah, doing no negotiating until then won’t go bad at all for the owners in the media, will it? You don’t understand solidarity and probably never will.
@supersloth
If they were planning on negotiating, they wouldn’t have built up that nest egg.
Meanwhile the owners will be losing billions in franchise value.
Meanwhile the owners will be losing billions in franchise value. They aren’t nearly as unified or determined as you think.
I’ve never seen any pro team de appreciate in value. Not as long as their TV networks paying rights to televise their games. All it is to them is content.
Stymeedone, every union builds a war chest ahead of negotiations, in case things go sideways. It’s standard operating procedure. This was started years ago, not just in the last 6 months.
Edit: I should clarify, every responsible union does.
You thought it was so witty you had to say it twice?
The difference is, the players are willing to negotiate and the owners are not.
If only the owners would negotiate in good faith then maybe things would move along.
If that happens, the players should come back and then strike right before the playoffs. What are the owners going to do? Arrest them?
seamaholic 2 —
“Owners losing billions in franchise value”?
Not unless MLB in its entirety folds.
Your a fu.,.,?!! You know what. You’re not even a fan of baseball or a family member of one.
Your a fu.,.,?!! You know what. You’re not even a fan of baseball or a family member of one.
Your a fu.,.,?!! You know what. You’re not even a fan of baseball or a family member of one.
@MC Tim C The owners are the clear bad guy here, but I do think it’s important to understand that the players are also using manipulative language while at the same time asking for some ridiculous things.
More times than not in a negotiation you settle for less than you initially asked for, so you ask for more in the beginning to compensate for your actual target. That’s just a classic business tactic.
MC Tim C — This is exactly where I was, and where I am now. Jeff Passan’s ESPN opinion piece* this morning finally tilted the scale for me. Each step of this war I’ve felt that the owners were not bargaining in good faith. Now it’s clear.
While I don’t think most players are downtrodden, they deserve fair compensation; they are the product.
I love the game and will dearly miss every game that Manfred and his cronies delete, but I’m with the players now.
*Passan piece: https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/33362477/inside-self-inflicted-crisis-boiling-mlb-lockout-deadline-arrives
I have been the same and I am starting the feel the same way with this information out today.
Cheap owners? Players are making 20-30 mil a year in Arbitration! Teams giving out 300 million dollar deals like its candy. All for what? To play a baseball game? Ridiculous! The players are making ridiculous amounts of money and it never seems enough for them, this isnt 1981 when players made nothing.
Ummm, you do realize on the other side of this, the owners make money from OWNING a team playing a game, right? Not exactly a pillar of virtue there either…
This is not accurate. You are losing sight of the fact that it’s the owners who take on the biggest risk. They have to either front the cash or take a loan to buy the team without a guarantee their investment will payoff. They have to ensure the entire baseball operations from players on down to the lowest paid worker functions in a satisfactory way to fans. And most important, they have to foot the bill for bad player contracts and injured players. Of course the owners are part of the problem when they hand out contracts and players fail to live up to their end but it’s the players who want more money yet in turn force the owners to take on all the risk. Even the arbitration process benefits the players since there is no guarantee the new arbitrated raise will result in the same level of performance in the new season.
If I were the owners, I’d see how serious the players are with taking on risk with the following proposals:
1. Give the players complete revenue sharing which means they can make much more when revenue exceeds operating costs yet they will also have to PAY part of the loss when operating costs exceed revenue; or,
2. Give owners the option to “fire” players from contracts if they fail to perform and reduce player salaries when they exceed a certain time on the injured list (similar to disability payments for most employees). On this last point, I’d give the players everything they want as long as I can vacate contracts where one party fails to honor its side.
Owners blindly believe they don’t ‘make enough of return’, because they conveniently seem to forget to factor in, the yearly appreciation in value, of their individual franchises.
The owners would never agree to that, Darth, because the dirty little secret they will never tell you is they very, very, VERY rarely lose money. If they lost money all the time, they’d have no problems opening their books. However, when looking at Atlanta’s, we see that they lost money in the Covid season, but surprisingly enough, they made money the other seasons. They aren’t even in a big market.
“Big Market” as in spendthrift, no. “Big Market” as in population, yes.
@super sloth
You fail to note that Atlanta is one of the teams that shies away from the big dollar contracts, which is likely why they were able to make a profit. $20mm in operating income does not seem too inspiring when you consider they were the WS winner. What if they had failed to make the playoffs? Would they have made anything?
Oh this is just ridiculous. Buying a big 3 (MLB, NFL, NBA) team carries zero risk. Selling for a higher price than they bought if for is guaranteed and no owner in the history of any of those sports has ever lost money on their investment.
You know that this is a lockout right? The owners are the ones keeping us from watching baseball, it’s not a strike. The owners greed is what you and all people should be concerned about (in and out of baseball), as it seems to be infinite.
And I’m always amazed at the ignorance of those mad at player salaries while being ok with billionaires making exponentially more money, but constantly crying poor. I mean jeez, if you think a player makes too much money, just imagine how much the guy signing their checks makes!
The players aren’t being greedy, they have a legitimate claim that they receive a lower percentage of revenue than they used to and deserve to be compensated fairly-especially given the crazy amount of money teams are making these days.
It’s the 1% (owners) trying to screw the 99% (players) in a conflict that’s exactly analogous to the state of our country. They’re destroying baseball just like they’re trying to destroy democracy, and all just to stay in power.
Why would any morally conscious person be on the side of the owners!?
Spoken like a true comrade.
On a more serious., or realistic, note: the owners aren’t trying to screw the players any more than the players are doing the same. Both are reciprocating in this process. Why would the owners look to destroy their investment? According to your logic, the owners make a great return on their investment but at the same time are looking to destroy it by not allowing the game to continue. Also, I’m not sure where democracy fits into this analogy. This is a bizarre comparison.
When players are making from $570k to $43MM, I have no problems with the morality of the persons paying those saLaries
They think if they can bust the union they’ll make even more. This really isn’t hard, unless you’re so ideological you just can’t see it.
Everyone sees it. Just not to the rabid extent you do.
Well you had part of that right: the owners are definitely trying to screw…well everyone, but I fail to see how the players getting a fair cut of revenue is “trying to screw the owners”?
And exactly what is happening right now child is that the owners have locked out the players and are willing to not play baseball games (destroy the sport) in order to not pay the players the same share that the used to. Revenue has gone up, but player salaries haven’t at the same rate…
Any other simple things that you need explained to you?
And that you don’t see how this situation is analogous to our nation just shows how slow you really are. Look up the definition of nihilism while you’re at it kiddo
You people need to stop saying “to play a game”. Their profession draws in millions of dollars in revenue and millions of viewers, what’s they do to draw those eyes and dollars is irrelevant
It’s not about the dollar value, it’s about the percentage. If you were making $5 for every item you produced and then you found out that your boss was selling them for $100 each, wouldn’t you want more seeing that you are the reason he is able to sell them at that price?
Made nothing? First off MLB wasn’t taking in the type of money it does now back in 81. But they did have a lot of well paid players. It’s all releative.
I side with the owners. What people need to realize is it is a business. These owners were billionaires before they bought their teams. The team is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Let the players go work regular jobs for 50000 a year and enjoy their 2.5% pay increase each year. All the players are doing is reaching for the stars. Keep changing the money but in the end it’s the same amount just a new way of receiving it. Owners own businesses to make money and the players union is trying to shut the business down. I root for a team and like players, but in the end of my favorite players leave my team I’m still rooting for the team. Let’s just boycott all of baseball, don’t go to games, don’t buy player jersey (which players earn money from) and send the players to the real world. Owners will still be billionaires and players will be working along side us.
No one cares whom you blame.
Not sure why I keep coming to this site expecting good news.
Come on now, there was a fascinating article earlier about where Clayton Kershaw will si*snore*
Ownership once again giving a finger to the MLBPA and fans.
Stand strong players.
What percentage of revenue will be enough for the employees to get from the employers? Do you think they’ll stop asking for more at future CBAs when they hit a certain percentage?
How about, say, whatever percentage the owners freely hand them in contracts without colluding to artificially lower it? Like, say, every other job in a free market economy?
But of course that’s unrealistic and the players will settle for far less, nobody’s talking about getting rid of the draft or 6 years of what would be an illegal non-compete clause in any other industry, or even the CBT that MLB was fine without for decades.
Right now the players get somewhere in the ballpark of 45% of total MLB revenues.
@smuz EVERY other job in a free market economy? That’s hilarious
Carl: Is your assumption that the players currently get $6Billion /year? That sees awfully high. Too high, when the highest salary is $40M. I think you’re stretching that number. It’s much closer to 33%, nowhere near half.
Total payroll last year was just about $3.2B for all the teams. Definitely nowhere near $6B. It was $104M+ average times 30 teams.
And they should get at least 50% considering they’re the product.
I believe they used to get 53%, assuming we were to believe the revenue numbers from MLB (I don’t), and now they’re around 47%. I believe a 50-50 split is quite fair. Can’t really get there unless the owners open up their books. They won’t because we’ll find out, and thus the players will find out, they’re making much more money than they’re saying.
By all accounts and reports MLB is just under $12B revenue and the players payroll, which is public, is just Uber $4B. That’s just under or at 33%, but I don’t know any common core math.
I could be missing numbers somewhere on the players’ side, I guess, but I don’t see how it’s 47%.
Exactly ^!
The 45% number is very well documented. It was over 50% at one time.
What percentage of that $12 billion in revenue was the non-Player salary costs? Things like operating a stadium, player benefits, non player salaries, loan payments, cost of goods sold, scouting, minor league system costs…? What percentage was profit? There’s a lot of speculation going on here. There are more than two slices to the pie. Money not going to the players does not all go into the owners pockets. The owners have more bills to pay.
They get enough.
Which is about as low as it’s ever been. On top of which the owners aren’t fully open about their revenues so it could be much lower than that, but certainly not more.
Well the owners don’t pay taxes and the players pay 50%+
Carl, I asked myself the same question. Based on 2019 figures, MLB players collected 37.5% of revenue. NFL players got 31% of league-wide revenue. The NBA was 41% and NHL was 53%. However, “2019” for basketball and hockey meant the loss of games. I’ going to try to compile the numbers for 2018 to keep Covid fully out of the equation.
Baseball players might end up with the highest percentage of any of the major sports, yet baseball revenue also has to support a more developed minor league system than any of the other sports. Food for thought. Facts for thought might be a better term.
MLB players have the lowest minimum salary of all the major sports, even though it’s the second-largest revenue producing league in the world.
Baseball produces more revenue than the NFL, NBA, or Premier League?
@Chucky, I said MLB ranks SECOND worldwide in revenue, only behind the NFL. The NFL generates between 40 and 50% more revenue than MLB. The years of Covid in 2020-2021 has created some fuzzy numbers, as some leagues were hit harder than others, but rankings haven’t changed much. The NBA is third worldwide, with MLB being about 25% larger measured by revenue. The Indian Premier League (cricket) is 4th followed by the English Premier League in fifth. NHL ranks 6th. You might see some variations on the actual numbers, with one league listed slightly ahead, but every list shows the NFL as the king in 1st and MLB in 2nd.
Catuli Carl: Do you realize how much the players gave up during the last contract period? They took a bath. This time around they’re TRYING to get some of it back plus some more. That’s why it’s called a NEGOTIATION. The owners, however, haven’t REALLY conceded much of anything.
Compared to the previous CBA, the players got a raise.
Stand Tall owners; let these 300- 500 million dollar guys go sell sporting goods and maybe we can get rid of the puppet masters and the cause for all of this; Agents like Boras!
Like the $300MM players are going to take minimum wage jobs if the sport is shut down. Even the guys earning $500K per year can withstand a few months of no pay. They knew this was coming.
Man you must love authoritarianism
Players have made concessions, I can’t see where the owners have moved much at all. I’m seeing a lot of comments from the owners like”non-starter” non-negotiable”.
You think this is Boras’ fault? Are you naturally this stupid or has it taken years of practice?
Not only players and fans but all the stadium staff and workers as well as restaurant and bar owners and staff.
Reposting from this morning. Another fine take from The Athletic on the owner-led lockout:
“The owners did this.
The owners initiated this shutdown. The owners waited 43 days to make a proposal. The owners have refused to budge on the relatively modest requests made by the players for a more equitable piece of the industry’s massive revenue pie. The players are willing to grow the pie by diluting the playoffs and sullying their uniforms with ads. They just want to get paid better. The union isn’t rallying for revolution; they’re asking for a cost-of-living raise.
That’s all. That’s it. And the reason baseball is not happening, the reason camps are closed, is because this legal monopoly — the stewards of the sport who have refused to pay minor-leaguers the minimum wage and contracted affiliates and shrunk the draft these past few years — will not pay the players a bit more.”
———————
Just in case you’re confused as to who caused this, who is responsible for Opening Day being delayed until who knows when. Who is responsible for lost wages and revenue on all the businesses who support MLB. The CBA expired. Both sides need to negotiate in faith on a new deal. The owners have not. The owners have brought us here.
That is a ridiculously biased take. Not really accurate at all. It reads as propaganda.
It’s an opinion piece, which by nature has a bias. When you write a post here, it also has bias. Your bias.
Beyond that, there is quite a bit of validity to it, even if you don’t agree with his entire view. I agree with most of it. This lockout is caused by the owners.
Propaganda is what you have soaked in for years and now you lick your bosses feet.
I bet you say anything you don’t agree with “sounds like propaganda”, when in reality, it’s a truthful account of events.
That was a pretty spot on description of what’s currently happening, yet you’ve chosen to deny what’s going on right before your eyes.
So what’s the truth then? At least give some kind of push back or reasons why you think that take is wrong.
Just because you don’t agree doesn’t mean you’re right, especially in this case!
“Cost-of-living raise. That’s all.”?? I think most households can get by fairly well with a $500K+ salary. If the union really cared, they’ll be rallying behind minor leaguers for better pay instead of raising the ML league min. salary. My comment is more of an indictment of how out of touch these owners and players are.
That was all you took out of it, YBC?
Just read through it as I’m working my way upward through the thread. I wouldn’t have included the cost-of-living statement, but I understand his point. The owners really aren’t offering anything so far in the negotiations, but they stand to gain a lot. If they seriously want to avoid lost games, then they should show up with the intent to negotiate and compromise. That’s how this stuff works.
RobM: I don’t want to be a braggart, BUT, I did pick May…. My boy Manfred coming through for me
Minor leaguers aren’t union members.
@Lord Yeah pretty much. To me, it’s a tone-deaf statement. Neither side has tried to address the fans, ya know, the people who pay their bills, and say stay patient and we’ll get this done ASAP so you can all enjoy baseball again. We know this isn’t fun for anyone. Sure, it may be lip service but acknowledge our frustrations.
@lordD99
That seems like a slanted take. “The owners waited 43 days…” There are two sides. Why didn’t the union act any faster than the owners?
I saw the requests by the players. Calling them “relatively modest” is an opinion, not a fact. Asking any business to just suddenly add $150mm to their budget, for anything, is going to create waves. That’s a chunk of change. As for bringing up what minor leaguers are being paid, that immaterial. Why hasn’t the union worked to represent them? Also immaterial. This is MLB owners vs MLB players. It takes two to tango. The past CBA is the starting point. The players will make gains, but they won’t get every thing they are asking for, and I doubt they expected to.
Who is going to pay all these increases for the players?? Your kidding yourself if you think the owners are going to pick up the tab. The expenses will be spread to the fans. Ticket prices, concession increases, cable/app increases, etc. the fans unfortunately will be the ones punished in the end.
MLB revenue, non-Covid season excluded, has continued to increase at a greater rate than payrolls have increased, which is why the players’ portion of the revenue pie has decreased by about a full six percentage points over recent years. Remember, the owners also have at least $100M coming to them with the expanded playoffs if the players approve it with this CBA which they will if the owners budge on any of the players asks. The also want cost certainty on the international draft. There’s also a pending TV deal with Apple that will bring in millions more. There’s additional advertising revenue on uniforms, etc. So, yeah, the owners are making lots of money. The players are asking for an increase as the revenues increase, with a large portion going to the players with less service time, yet the owners have barely budged on anything. That’s why we’re at this point. It’s on the owners.
Also, do you believe what the owners charge you will go down? The only way it decreases is if you stop consuming what they’re offering at the current price. Their goal is to take as much money from the players, charge fans as much as they can, and keep even more profits. I have no issue with both sides getting their share, but don’t believe for a moment it’s going to be funneled back to the fans.
Your approach is sound, focus on the dollars. Do you think if MLBPA would drop its demand for service time manipulation credits, and a % increase in those eligible for early arbitration, the owners would negotiate on the only thing that matters, $$?
Yes.. Which is why I am on the owners side. The avg family can’t afford to go to more than one game a year (if that for many). The owners have already offered a lot and the players standard of living will raise. Play Ball or scrap the season.
The owners have offered a lot? They’ve raised the prices for parking, concessions, tickets, merchandise. Those aren’t tied to player salaries. It’s just the owners being greedy. The amount of bootlicking that goes on here is insane.
The players get zero part of the parking revenue or the $12 hot dogs you’re buying at the ball park. Let’s all keep that in mind.
You do realise that the reason tickets are so pricey is because the owners raise the costs and pocket the extra profit, right? You cannot be this stupid, surely?!Player salaries have not increased anywhere near to owner profits, and yet prices have gone up. So where has all this extra money come and come from? From TV revenues and game day income, and it’s gone straight into the owners pockets. They could have used that money to lower the price of the gameday experience but they haven’t. Do you know why? Because people like you buy their lies and continue to lick their boots, siding with them while they laugh at you and rummage around in your wallet even more.
It’s America in a nutshell. It’s why you have some of the worst working protections and conditions in the first world. You get bent over and thank your bosses for the privilege. It’s insane, but these boot lickers only have themselves to blame.
What nonsense. The owners will set prices as high as the market will bear, regardless of how much the players are making. The players could all agree to play for free, and ticket/concession prices wouldn’t decrease a penny. Franchise valuations would double (at least) , though.
Ok Padre – We get it, you hate the US. You should absolutely never come to our country as our standard of living is so far beneath what you have become accustomed to in the paradise that is the UK.
Is that all you’ve got?
Well at least we know ukpadre must be correct or else you would have disagreed with him, instead you go after his screen name? Bravo Einstein
By his nickname, BleedzBlue probably things that O’Malley was good for baseball by leaving Brooklyn. Owners care about the fans as much as Putin cares about the Ukranians.
I don’t hate the US, I hate a small subset of you idiots who hold the rest of you back from being treated well and getting what you deserve. That small subset, people like you, are the epitome of crabs in a bucket.
Well UK, turns out as a Brit your opinion of US affairs became irrelevant a few hundred years ago. Furthermore, as an American, the only thing that would stand between me and success would be my own motivation. to work hard and earn it I don’t blame other people for my shortcomings and I certainly don’t need their help to succeed. Keep your crabs George. I’m doing just fine – thank you!
The fans will be paying regardless whether the players get increases or not.
Thank you!
There is no correlation between player salaries and ticket prices!
The owners set prices at whatever they want…
Can we dissolve the players Union? There’s no way Cole and Scherzer have the best interests of bubble players in mind
Why would you think that?
Maybe the fact that they are only interested in big money issues, not fringe players?
Are you paying attention to the negotiations at all? The big fights have been about arbitration, minimum salaries, and CBT. Maybe the CBT benefits only the big money guys, but the other two big issues affect the little guy more than anything.
The owners are trying to keep the Rays, Pirates,Marlins , Guardians and Athletics above water
Jimbob – If you think any MLB team is losing money, I have some swampland in Florida to sell you.
The A’s play in a sewer (literally) and refuse to field a competitive team while threatening to move. The thing all those teams have in common, aside from the Rays, is that they have purposely fielded garbage teams. The Rays play in a stadium that is extremely difficult to get to and the owner has the ability to move that franchise or sell it if he feels he can’t be competitive. All these owners do. And they would make millions more than when they purchased the team.
@Mingo The A’s are competive year in and year out.
If only they’d try that by putting money into their teams and being competitive…but socialism for the rich is ok I guess.
Umm, the A’s are plenty competitive. Or at least until this off-season. So are the Brewers. The Reds aren’t half bad. The Marlins are coming on. Part of the problem here is that there is less and less reason to spend for players because some teams do just fine with lower payrolls.
Trying to keep an MLB team “above water” today is like worrying your boat will sink on concrete.
“Oh no, Bob, bad news. You’ve only made *$100M in profit again* this year after all expenses are paid. I’m not sure what you’re going to do, but you may want to think about declaring bankruptcy before you’re completely ruined.”
Where is this money they should “just put into their teams” coming from? Should they ask for a loan? Should they cut scouting? Should they refrain from capital improvements for a few years? The Revenue sharing is due to markets having different sizes and the more teams than have the opportunity to compete, the healthier the entire sport is.
I say let them sink if need be.
The money from profit sharing should have to go into the stadium and players salaries (or at least certain percentages) and not just disappear into the bank accounts of billionaire owners. Even the least profitable teams are making millions in profits…take out loans!? Hahaha! These dudes are all billionaires! Some just refuse to put out a decent product and cry poor while trying to get taxpayers to pay for more and more of things they’ll never see a dime from.
Don’t let the skill of Billy Beane fool you, we all know the state of the A’s and it’s entirely the fault of their billionaire owner refusing to put any money into the team. Even the other owners got so tired of him putting so little into the team while taking revenue sharing that they phased the A’s off it!
The sport is healthy when all teams are actually and sincerely trying to win, and will invest in themselves to do so. Just spreading the wealth doesn’t ensure competition…its the exact logic used when discussing capitalism vs socialism.
No question the Oakland Coliseum is a sewer, but both the A’s and the Rays constantly field competitive teams.
ABstract — And throughout the U.S. it’s getting worse. And those most disadvantaged by it, seem to applaud it.
Yet keep in mind that the Oakland Coliseum is a garbage dump and the Rays stadium is inaccessible. I’m not suggesting cities GIVE the stadiums to the owners, but if you’re playing in either of those facilities, you are playing with at least one hand behind the back.
Nevertheless, the owners got themselves into those facilities and it’s time for them to get out. They signed the contracts.
The A’s are in playoffs quite bit Mingo
Those guys have their final contracts. What happens from here on won’t affect them.
Still the players’ negotiators are stuck hard on protecting the upper end of the pay scale.
162 games is too many anyway.
i disagree, if they miss games it will truly hurt the statistics part of the game which is one of my favorites.
Perhaps, but for the majority of years MLB has been in existence, the standard was 154 games,.
I’m with that. Messing w counting stats is really my only downside w a shorter season. 162 is a lot of baseball. I don’t think 145 games would even be very noticeable beyond the final season stats.
While I don’t want to change it now, 100 games would probably be enough, and a much cleaner number. Then they can have all the stupid expanded playoffs they want.
No matter what, I don’t want ANY expansion to the playoffs. Just more greed. And advertising patches on the unis? F*#king NASCAR.
I like 162-game seasons and 3-hour games.
I like baseball.
Heaven forbid MLB try to ingratiate themselves to their actual lifelong fans instead of corrupting the game in a vain attempt at attracting new fans huh?
I agree with Jimmy, it should be 172.
***says the fair weather who finally shows interest in September if their team is in the race.
The players’ solidarity is strong… good to know. So is the owners. My opinion is that the players have much much more to lose. Do you think Marcus Semien, Max Scherzer, etc want to sit and not collect their money after signing their big deals? A deal will come shortly and put an end to all this soap opera drama.
I don’t know, the owners have actual overhead that they have to be concerned with. Stadiums sitting vacant all summer would hurt the owners way more than players.
Owners make way way more than the players, but much of their wealth isn’t liquid and is tied up in that and other businesses.
I’m sure most owners leverage their expected incomes to facilitate the loans, large purchases and other investments that keep them rich. Without that they could be in tough spots…finally
Owners seen this coming for years. They are prepared to do what’s necessary.
Nope, collectively the players make more than the owners. And Max is 39yrs old and can’t recoup that $232k/game in future years. You can own a team for 50 years but a player has a finite window to make money, and 2020 was already ruined for these guys.
That’s it. I’m watching soccer. Go West Ham.
“go Hotspurs” – fixed it for you lol
Knew there had to be at least one spuds fan here.
“What do we think of Tottenham?!”
Two more months of “Trouble With the Curve” on MLB network. Ah well, at least we won’t have to listen Amsinger’s constant drivel.
College baseball is great. Plenty of it on ESPN+ and I had a great time at the Long Beach State game last weekend.
Is it MLB level? Of course not.
But it will definitely work until MLB comes back.
Gotta say, I’ve tried. I’ve tried and tried. It’s pretty lame. Rather watch minor leagues.
Yes there is a reason why you haven’t watched college baseball before. For most it won’t satisfy. At least the minor leagues is still your teams players.
The last union proposal took pretty big steps towards meeting in the middle, the owners basically reacted with nothing.
It’s pretty clear now that the owners have just been waiting the players out until their salaries are in jeopardy and using that to get what they want. The only real way for players to level the playing field in that environment is to tell the owners to shove it and miss paychecks. Let’s see if they have the stomach for it.
the owners definitely must believe they can get public sentiment to turn against the players on this. in the age of twitter and diver media platforms, I don’t think their gamble will play the way they think it will. they can definitely buy a lot of astro-turfing shills, and there are plenty of mouthpieces that are basically stooges for the owners already, but more and more people feel less sorry for crying billionaire owners than they used to
Nearly every reference I’ve seen to the situation except on this site is saying the players are on strike. So the owners have no problem turning sentiment against the players, that’s already achieved. Their trouble is, once the CBA is signed the players are their product… and they’ve just turned the fans against their product, so good luck undoing the brand damage you just did.
Smuz, they’re directing the ire toward Union negotiators and agents who are “manipulating” the players, who just want to go out and play ball.
There may be some truth to it, as well. The union tries to get higher salaries for their “members” so they can collect more from them, same with the agents. These are the people really pushing this BS. Are we really supposed to think all this stuff was thought up by the players and was presented to the union? OR did the union and their own agents tell the players what they want and why they should want it?
There are people in these proceedings who provide absolutely nothing. It’s not the owners and certainly not the players. These leeches are who we should be angry at.
mlb.com and MLB trade rumors are both mouthpieces for owners with disinformation. A baseball reporter was fired for not toeing the line for owners.
larry48 — I’m gonna have to disagree with you: I don’t think MLBTR is at all a “mouthpiece for the owners.” I read the site more than once daily and I don’t see that kind of distortion of the facts.
His contract ran out and was not renewed, you can’t know anymore about the facts than I do
I don’t think it matters whether public sentiment is on the owners’ side or the players’ side and both sides know that. Most Americans really don’t care as most don’t follow baseball. I think both the owners and the players know deep down it will not matter with most fans. I suspect both sides are running on the assumption that the bulk of the fans will return. Maybe not right away, but over time they will return over time. Yes, they know that they might lose some fans, but not enough in the long term to matter.
What do you mean “level the playing field?”
The players, the employees, already get 45% of total MLB revenues form the owners, the employers.
Uh okay. 55% of revenue divided by 32 owners, versus 45% divided by 1200 union members.
Let’s just say hypothetically, mlb earned $1M in revenue. That would work out to each owner making $17,185., while the average salary of union members would be $375.
I’m all for the owners making their money, but no one is lining up to watch the owners.
How about this give the players 55% of the revenues but they pick up all the expenses including minor league salaries, scouting departments, stadium fees, concessions workers costs, supply cost, hotel expenditures, overall travel expenditures, training staff, equipment, benefits for all that staff, plus taxes for the stadium, maintenance, etc etc
Oh also dont forget i dont believe there are many if not all teams that are 100% owned by 1 person so your 17k number would drop severely once you break it out amongst all the different owners.including businesses such as liberty media that owns the braves. Thats also after you pull back all the expenses listed above.
@Flyby…awesome idea!!
The total paid to players has gone down each of the last 4 years.
I run a business, I employ people. The idea of paying them less every year for 4 years running is a joke.
I’m normally not one to side with a labor union, but the players are getting screwed in MLB.
@99socal. Here is the salary breakdown for the last four years. While salaries were down in 2021 & 2020, I think it’s far to say the pandemic played a role. Regardless I’m hoping the players get taken care of, but salaries are broken down as follows:
2021: total payroll = $3,556,784,893
Average payroll per team = $118,892,892
2020: NA due to shortened season
2019: total MLB payroll = $3,999,827,072
Avg per team = $133,327,569
2018: total MLB payroll = $3,983,892,634
Avg per team = $132,327,569
And just for reference here are salaries at previous start of the decade this century:
2010: total MLB payroll = $2,757,480,197
Avg per team = $91,916,006
2000: total MLB salaries = $1,685,767,602
Avg per team = $56,192,253
These numbers are in line with what I’ve found. Which is nowhere near 45% of $12B. Very close to 33%. Someone above likes to make up numbers! 45%. Lol.
You run a business, then feel free to pay people whatever you feel is fair. If they agree they will continue to work for you. To say you are paying them less each year simply because revenue has increased disproportionate to salary is distortion at best and a fabrication at worst.
Bleed blue: But the purpose of negotiating a contract with star entertainers every few years in an entertainment industry that increases revenue by such multipliers is so they can incrementally increase their pay in some sort of direct relationship.
To presume that players salaries would simply remain stagnant in an entertainment industry is not taking the context into consideration or being disingenuous.
This is wholly different than a normal private business.
^This^.
It was no different in 2020, so I don’t know why anyone expected the owners to act any differently this time.
Hold the line, owners. You know that the season could be completely cancelled and that the country would hardly care or even notice (because baseball is culturally irrelevant) and you also know that you could easily find much better ROI’s than MLB. MLB players are already spoiled and treated great for playing a game with a stick and a ball and mittens 7-8 months per year and you know it. Lifetime benefits after 6 weeks on a MLB roster, many of them receive signing bonuses (frequently major bonuses) before ever playing their first professional game, entry level salary is in the top 1% of incomes, average salary (more than $4 million!!!) is in the top 1/10th of 1% of incomes, playoff bonuses, awards bonuses, daily food allowance, luxury hotels, luxury travel accommodations, etc. Enough is enough- stop being weak and stop allowing MLBPA to make you look like chump pushovers. Hold the line! Stop giving in!! BREAK THE MLBPA UNION!!!
STFU already. You post the same garbage on EVERY article.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Ftenor.com%2Fview%2Fno-nope-no-way-noo-absolutely-not-gif-20244171&psig=AOvVaw0oQ-DJdFWnjXhPiPQY64tc&ust=1646163826702000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAsQjRxqFwoTCLjLqqOUo_YCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAN
the voice of reason hired by the owner for disinformation.
AMEN! Tim C
Where’s the logic in shutting down a billion dollar industry and destroying billions of dollars in personal net worth by making baseball less popular and less relevant? A lengthy shut down of baseball hurts the owners far more than the players if permanent damage is done to the brand.
Voice of Reason loves authoritarianism. He’d love to hero worship any of history’s dictators. At the very least he’s as useful idiot for parasites like Cohen.
130 games would obviously be far more legitimate than 60 but missing games over something this stupid would be unacceptable.
So, let it be 130 games. The owners are playing the long game, hoping to strong-arm the players into compliance. The players can do the same thing. Don’t take a bad deal. And, please, as a fan, do something about competitiveness/tanking other than insisting the players pay for it. Sometimes teams go bad because of bad luck, underperformance, and injuries. But encouraging teams to be lousy by design?
It’s getting to the point folks don’t even care about baseball s anymore
or any less
I do.
I still love baseball. I also still think people are depraved and will resort to their base, sinful, greedy nature as soon as possible & whenever possible. I also understand that to most people, particularly very wealthy people, the love of money is the idolatry of choice, their god. What would you do for more of your god?
Who didn’t know a year ago that the owners didn’t care about April?
Apparently the players don’t care either
Oh great, Max, Marcus and Cole negotiating on behalf of players, what a joke.
Fans know so little regarding what teams really earn. Objectively It’s hard to take sides unless we do.
I really can’t take one side over the other unless books are opened.
1) Young players deserve to get paid.
2) The luxury cap should not act as a barrier, just a speed bump.
Other than that, I have no idea what is going on.
I’ve lost patience with both, but particularly with the players. The average major league yearly salary is more than $4 million bucks. If you’re not satisfied with that, abandon MLB and play in Mexico, South Korea, Australia or Japan. You’d be replaced by the next wave of players.
Hilariously awful take.
@dan_plays_drums And a devastating rebuttal from you. Very well reasoned. You absolutely dismantled his argument.,
Leftcoaster – The average salary is far less relevant than the mean salary. Most players earn far less than $1 million.
Sign a deal and they can earn living like the rest of us, sooner or later they will cave
Since so many players are up for a cup of coffee, the mean alary is also irrelevant.
you could look at it that way. You could also say that since minor leaguers earn below the poverty line, that they should all be included in this discussion because a few weeks in the majors can be the difference between earning a livable wage and needing to work 2-3 jobs in the offseason to support your family.
mp2891 — I’m with the players, but to be accurate, the medium annual player salary is $4.8M. The median annual player salary is $1.18M.
Thanks Pete. Appreciate the correction.
This is a bad take because:
1. the players take all the risk (injuries)
2. The players average career lasts 3 years, which means with options and sky high income taxes they earn about 700k in their career, despite being with billions (collectively)
3. The owners don’t provide any transparency and have gotten fabulously wealthy from rising franchise values
4. The players are the workers and the product.
kylegocougs — I’m with the players, but your list is half inaccurate:
1. Players do not take all the risk. This is so untrue in so many ways, I’ll just say, “Own a business. Tell me what the lose of your product costs you?”
2. The players make more than you suggest (see my comment above), But at any rate, a person can build a financial future if they make $700k in 3 years, if they invest smartly.
3. I agree. Kill the owners monopoly.
4. I agree.
I disagree that the players take all the risk.If anything, the owners do because players are on guaranteed contracts (most anyway). Do they go back to the owners and offer to reduce their salary after an injury or poor season? All they need to do is to have a good season in their walk year and they get paid again.
On the bright side it should be a great college baseball season.
Fitting right into my prediction of losing 4-6 weeks of the regular season and the whiny players will want full salaries anyway.
I’ve assumed from the beginning that 1-2 months would be lost. The owners don’t think the players have the spine to miss game checks, and so game checks will have to be missed before good faith negotiations begin. Until the owners start to feel some pain too, they aren’t going to negotiate in good faith.
What I find funny is the narrative that so many folks take on this site. That the players stand the most to lose from a few missed game checks. In reality, the owners have much more to lose. The average baseball career is less than 6 years, with the majority of those years earning less than $1 million in compensation. No player wants to lose a year of his career, but if the Union can offset the loss of gamechecks, the pain isn’t too severe. In contrast, the owners own franchises worth $1.5 billion to $5.25 billion. If baseball suffers a permanent hit to the sport, the owners are at risk of losing substantially more than the players. That’s the big picture, one that the owners ignore at their own peril.
Anyway, looks like baseball in June at the earliest.
The amount of potential new revenue is staggering. The owners have deeper pockets and are willing to risk the present for a massive windfall in the future. they’re willing to accept that loss, hoping that the players cannot hold out . I think they may have miscalculated this one.
I hope you’re right.
I did not renew my mlb app subscription this year but I have been paying for the mlb channel. Looks like I will have to cancel that soon. Disappointed in this whole process. I have done my best to not visit anything mlb related other than this site as this has been going on. Revenue growth for mlb will involve raising prices not as a result of growth in interest. So sad coming out of a pandemic that this crap is going on.
I just went to my mlbtv account and cancelled my auto-renew.
Thanks for reminding me.
As an old-timer that saw his first MLB game back in 1959, I’m fed up with the whole situation and will pursue other activities. Over all these 60 plus years of following the game, owners and players have become far wealthier while the cost of attending a ball game has skyrocketed. MLB has failed to demonstrate appreciation for fans. For me, I’ve had it.
How do you think they got wealthier
Stand strong, players!! You’re making slave wages! Don’t let these evil capitalist pigs exploit you with these measly hundred million dollar contracts! you have to eat after all. You play a game for a living for God’s sake. I can’t think of a more laborious and toiling endeavor of work. Your never ending crusade for more money is an inspiration to us all.
Lol the players pay taxes and the owners don’t
You should get paid what you are worth. It shouldn’t matter if each player is getting millions. They are both workers and the product. As the revenues from their labor and from themselves as products increases, so should their compensation. They’ve become more valuable. Owners profits are increasing exponentially, but their never ending crusade for more is an inspiration to all you other billionaires who labored to be born into fortune.
The first 30 days of the season are cold and poorly attended. I bet most televised games have decent ratings.
The owners are giving up nothing.
How long? I say once you get into June. June 1. If there’s no hardball after June 1, no one will care.
Both sides should be ashamed of themselves.
We’re talkin’ baseball!
Kluszewski, Campanella.
Talkin’ baseball!
The Man and Bobby Feller.
The Scooter, the Barber, and the Newc,
They knew ’em all from Boston to Dubuque.
Especially Willie, Mickey, and the Duke.
Ron Manfred and Tony Clark have the same appeal as a fart in church on Sunday.
And us fans are willing to miss the entire season.
The only good thing about the possibility of a lost season is knowing my marriage is safe for another year since my wife gets upset when I yell at the TV during Yankees games.
Not sure why fans are letting the media and doomsdsy scenarios to get clicks upset them so. Sit back, hope the players maintain solidarity and when the games come back go back to enjoying the game. I’m sure there is something you can do in the meantime and not let a game cause you such anger and stress.
So when do the fans lockout the owners and the players? Fighting over how to share billions in revenue while it costs $200 to take your family to a ball game.
Exactly. The fans have to exact some form of financial revenge. Otherwise, we are just getting played. Both sides take us for granted. There should be done kind of fan strike – at least fan pledges to make a conscious effort to spend less on MLB (tickets, concessions, merchandise, subscription services) and their advertisers.
This isn’t a Fortune 500 company it’s not target it’s not McDonalds ! The owners just need to stfu sign the checks and be happy to own a team ! A team they could all sale for 5 to 10 times more then the originally paid for them , the owners are irrelevant and all replaceable!
The players are the whole league the players don’t owe the useless owners one bit of gratitude and don’t have to take what the owners say they should ! Also nobody cares about tools that say I wish I could make what the players are scoffing at , nobody cares that you would get fired if you showed that defiance towards your bosses!
MLB should try replacement players again it didn’t take and it was such a debacle the players forever got a league with no salary cap ! Never side with ownership under any circumstances
There’s really not much that is factual about your post. For one, many MLB teams are in fact owned by corporations. Look it up. For two, there are zero instances where an MLB owner can sell a team for 10x what they paid for it. It’s just not factual. I admire your passionate response, but not the substance of it.
The owners are clearly acting in bad faith. I hope the players hold out for the whole season.
As C-3PO would say “we’re doomed”
Bobby Bonilla might end up being the highest paid baseball player this year.
Hah! Time for Bobby to renegotiate for another 25 years of deferments since owners are clearly in a tight cash crunch now.
I’m glad I don’t hate anything in life as much as MLB owners hate baseball.
If the owners cancel so much as 1 game the players should strike.
Good for you owners! We can live without baseball until you break these overpaid players!
It’s the owners that overpay them. It’s the owners that dole out $350+ million dollar contracts. They don’t have to do that.
This type of reaction always confuses me and here’s why: I presume the logic of hating the players’ pay is tied to your disdain for the costs of games, merchandise, TV/streaming games, etc.? If not, it’s borne out of jealousy. If it’s the former, do you honestly believe that the owners would charge you less if they paid players less? The answer is no. They will milk you for every red cent you will pay.
I guarantee this chump thinks he’s underpaid.
Do the players not see the irony of complaining about service time while willing to get a year older and give up a year of service time for a cancelled season? All while the minor leaguers get another year under their belt and another year closer to taking their jobs. The owners don’t owe the players anything. They are all private companies, not public. If the players don’t lie the way they are treated, go play in a foreign country or independent ball. Or I saw the Taco Bell by my house is hiring. The players have agent, let them do all the negotiations for them, every year at the extreme from draft day to retirement and absolve the union.
what if mlbpa made an alt league?
Their contracts include a clause that they can’t play elsewhere professionally. Wonder if the lockout would give them any leverage to test that clause. But, that’s a huge undertaking in addition to creating a new league.
While employee ownership makes sense and works in a number of industries, I doubt it would work or make sense in pro baseball. Imagine trying to make personnel decisions. “You can’t waive me, I’m a co-owner.” Think of free agents. “Hey, guys, we could sign Seager for $30 million a year or we just could divide that $30 million between us. I vote for the latter.”
You have to come up with a better alternative than player-owned teams.
Cancel the entire season, they have ran off all the fans except for the hard core. That amount isn’t going to fill the stands. They have ruined this game.
They can all GFY. That is all.
This might be a social experiment to see what it will take for some people to stop licking boots.
Must. Worship. The. Job. Creators.
Tone deaf to embarrassing to irritating.
Sooner or later the players will cave or have to find them a real job and then the Owners will start all over . They are billionaires
A bunch of whiny Millionaires fighting a bunch of whiny billionaires.
Not quite sure if accurate but I understood that the players would demand their full salaries prior to resuming a shortened season. I hope they stick by this proposition.
The only overpaid people are the owners.
I don’t really care how much players get paid or how much owners make any more than I care how much a movie costs to make or an actor gets paid. I do care about getting entertainment value for my time and money and today’s game is boring, slow and too long. I don’t want to see 8 total hits and 20 total strikeouts. Fix the game first.
You can’t fix it if you don’t have players on the field
the only reason to care about the issues under negotiation is how they impact the product. i agree that the modern game is a little tedious compared to the version i grew up watching, but i don’t know how to fix this. my biggest issue is how few teams are actively trying to win. further diluting the playoffs will make it even easier for small-market teams to cross their fingers and do nothing. IMO 3 division winners and 1 wild card per league was the perfect system
Well said, especially, “ how few teams are actively trying to win.” Exactly right.
Are you suggesting we restore baseball to the competitive 1950s when the Yankees won the pennant only eight times in ten years? The NL was much more competitive during that period as the Dodgers only won the pennant five times.
@Skeptical
There were no divisions in the ‘50s and there were only eight teams per league. Going back to four postseason teams out of 15 per league would still be much different than that.
How did you possibly get that out of his reference to “how the game is played” because it’s “tedious, boring” etc.? I mean, I’d be cool if the Yankees actually tried to win again, yeah, but I didn’t take that from what he was saying, lol.
Greed on both parts. Players making league minimum won’t have any issue going a month without getting paid. They’re gonna get stipends…How about all the workers like grounds keepers, concession, stadium employees? What do they get? They get we’ll call you when we are back. Same thing happened the last time they went on strike turned a lot of fans off all for greed. I get it this is their job and that’s why they have a union but greedy owners want more and greedy players won’t bend. Let’s face it your not digging ditches.
Maybe us fans should boycott a months worth. And don’t buy any products-from official sponsors of MLB and their advertisers.. You owners want to pull the plug on a months worth of games. Then it’s no soup for you. The fans need to be heard.
Seems like if the players would just take the money the union has and divvy it up among themselves, it would about cover anything they might get as part of negotiations.
The union, as opposed to the players, seems to be taking advantage of all of this to do quite nicely thank you.
I am hoping the owners hold the line on the CBT as this builds parity in the game and gives about 20 other teams at least a chance to compete with the Yankees and Dodgers. The rest of it they could just meet in the middle and be done.
Im on the owners side, not every sport or every player should be paid equally, thats just life, some get more some get less. But greed is found on both sides. One way to destroy greed is to pray for the Holy Spirits Gift of Counsel and use the virtue of generosity.
i think player salaries we 4billion last year? l get it the owners will not have income but they must have quite a bit of the payroll in reserve. No question that $$ is invested well. if the union thinks they can outlast these guys they have no clue (clueless)
once games are cancelled, pro-rated salaries will become yet another issue to negotiate. welcome to The (epithet relating to bowel elimination) Show
I believe it’s the small market teams that are holding this all up… I can’t understand why the players won’t allow mediation. That is the way the 94-95 strike ended when the govt stepped in and mediated it
They don’t want mediation because they don’t want a fair deal. The MLBPA has no interest at meeting the in the middle. Problem also is I don’t think the owners want to meet in the middle either.
The MLBPA has made multiple concessions here. Which ones have the owners made? I don’t see any indication the owners want to meet in the middle. They want to keep things pretty much as is, while also getting huge additional TV money from expanded playoffs.
The owners have made concessions from the last CBA. I don’t think the players have.
The players have made fair proposals. The owners have not.
Mediation could lead to an intentional impasse being declared, merely by owners continuing to insist on imposing a de facto salary cap, and the players aren’t going there.
Once the owners drop their proposal for higher CBT taxes and penalties and a reasonable thresholds, the rest can be settled. The owners are not trying to settle. It’s the same tactics they used in 2020, same tactics and same issue as in 1994.
Despite the belief the Dodgers, Yankees, Red Sox and a few other major market teams control the dialogue, it’s been quite clear for some time it’s the smaller and medium market teams calling the shots. They have the votes to contain the bigger market clubs.
The small market teams ARE “holding this up’ because they’re fighting for their survival. At least a third of the league are small market teams, and their operating plan is built on being able to afford players when they come up and knowing they have to let them go when they become too expensive. Drastically increase the cost of pre-free agency players and some of those teams may no longer be viable. Sure, we could contract TB, Cin, KC, Mil, Oak, Col, Clev, Pit, Min, Mia, etc. and shrink the league to 20-24 teams, and perhaps the remaining teams would be financially competitive, but at what cost? The fans in those cities and the sport as we know it..
No MLB team is fighting for survival. Every single MLB team can easily afford a payroll of $100 million per year. Every one of them. They get $91 million in revenue sharing, plus $ 60 million in national TV money, plus 52 percent of their local revenue that isn’t shared, plus more from the central fund. plus marketing, licensing, naming rights, and sponsorships. They’re not even close to struggling.
Same conversation every single time, Patrick. Small-market victimhood has really taken root. This is some incredible work MLB has done for people to completely ignore the obvious.
Depends whom you’re talking about. Some teams really don’t have a lot of wiggle room. Just do the math. The Marlins only draw like 600k a year, at one of the cheapest average ticket prices, and have essentially no local TV deal to speak of. Compare the Braves situation to that of a low revenue team. The Braves played lots of playoff games in 2021, had the 2nd best attendance in the game, with higher than average ticket prices, and an average TV deal. They made about $180m or so in “profit.” Which sounds great. But now start subtracting. Most of that $180m would be gone as soon as you substitute, say, the Marlins gate for the Braves. Throw in the difference in local TV, and it’s gone and then some. Now, the Marlins don’t have to spend as much on players on the Braves (which itself is nowhere near the big boys) but there’s just no way you can do the math without realizing that the Marlins, Pirates, Reds, etc of the world make profits somewhere in the $20-50m range, with the outside of that very unlikely. That’s what they have. So sure, they can spend more, but they can’t be competitive financially. They just can’t.
It’s not a matter of survival, it’s a matter of competitiveness.
If the small market teams start spending $200 million each on payroll, what will happen? The bigger market teams will spend $400 million.
So, you are going to end up losing to a bigger spending team anyway, would you rather spend $200 million or $50 million.
None of those cities are “small market” in the NFL or NHL or NBA.
MLB is rigged for the big markets and virtually everyone involved in the game likes it that way.
Why not just go back to the 60-game season? Would like to see a Dodger dynasty but they can only win it all in a 60-game season…
They would also have to go back to neutral sites with no fans. That’s when the Dodgers are at their best…in a fake setting.
Season’s about to be postponed and all you can think about is the Dodgers. Yup, sounds like a Giants fan
Hey now, don’t make this about Giant fans. Lots of baseball fans hate the Dodgers.
If I didn’t like the Dodgers, why would I want to see their dynasty?
I’m a Yomiuri Giants fan, yes.
Old York-You sound bitter
Looks like more threats and bullying tactics showed up from the owners. Hopefully just negotiating language. I’ll remain positive we get a deal this week until there is no deal this week.
Just glad this is happening when my Orioles aren’t competing. Feel bad for teams/fans like the White Sox and Mariners where they aren’t always in the mix and seem to have an exciting season up ahead
Loving the MLBPA. Wish the NFLPA could unite like this. At the end of the day the players’ talent is the product. Never forget that. And with all the new networks teams are making a killing on and new media deals. The players should get paid and find a way to solve the terrible service time calculation.
the league needs to fire the commissioner. He don’t care about Baseball
That’s not his job. He works for the owners, period. Not in a “conspiracy” sort of way. That’s literally his job and who hired him.
Since ownership is not transparent, I guess taking one month off tells you how much ownership is making all around. I’m not a fan of the players here, but I am surely not a fan of owners who have no desire to put a competitive team on the field..
Players aren’t moving at all. It’ll go as long as that stance remains. 90% of the union depend on the pay checks. Those players will start to waver after a month of missed wages, but likely not until then. If the union cares about their 90%, there will probably be movement in May.
The players just dropped their request for $ 30 million reduction in revenue sharing, and the super two arbitration cutoff from 75% of players down to 35%. Are you paying attention at all? The owners are stuck on a de facto salary cap, and that’s what has to go before any agreement is reached.
The union has a huge warchest with which to compensate players to hang tight.
Do locked out players qualify for unemployment benefits?
Part of this CBA should be relocation. Make these changes immediately…
New York Mets become Rochester Rabbits
Tampa Bay Rays become Raleigh Reapers
Miami Marlins become New Orleans Gators
Oakland Athletics become Las Vegas Vipers
Washington Nationals become Albuquerque Desert Dogs
San Diego Padres become San Antonio Scorpions
Pittsburgh Pirates become Omaha Dragons
Cleveland “Guardians” become Wichita Warlocks
Philadelphia Phillies become Hartford Seals
Will you knock it off with lame team names and locations
If you don’t like “Hartford Seals” then we can go with “New Haven Hydras” instead.
Someone needs to tell the owners and players they are all greedy turd balls
You know, with all that’s going on in the Ukraine, one would think they’d realize how insignificant THEIR issues are compared to “real” problems and meet in the middle of everything.
The problem with “meeting in the middle” precludes that both sides initial offer is reasonable. If a teenager offers to shovel snow from my driveway, and I offer him $10 and he asks for $500, meeting in the middle may not be practical..
The players are not going to meet in the middle of the CB taxes proposed by owners and the owners are not going to meet in the middle of $115 million bonus pool. So that won’t work.
@polglot – Arbitration is earned and presided over by an objective 3rd party. So, the fact that it has to go that far is in fact a testament to the cheapness of the owners. The owners are making good money, but do you think the owners are bankrupt. Do you not think that the players deserve a raise and more sharing of the revenue that their labor contributes to? Passan made a good point this morning, “If you went and got the next 1,200 best players in the world, the product would suffer greatly. If you handed MLB teams over to any 30 competent businesspeople, the sport would not suffer. Actually, it might improve. It doesn’t take a billionaire to leverage a spot in a legalized monopoly with profound built-in revenues.”
I cannot understand the mindset of siding with the owners, who are clearly the ones driving this lockout. Again, it’s a lockout, not a strike.
The Passan opinion piece is excellent. I hope more people on this site read it.
@Pete’s I did not read the Passan piece but did see that he said that if games are missed, it would be “horrendous.” No, it wouldn’t. It’s not that big a deal, truly. A war just started last week that could lead to catastrophic loss of human life. There is nothing “horrendous” about anything that can happen, or not happen, on a baseball field. Whether in 2022, or if they cancel the whole god damn season. A hell of a lot more important things going on right now, players and owners alike can go F themselves. Neither is worth anybody wasting their energy either defending, or criticizing them.
Will you knock it off with lame team names and locations
This “ownership is willing to lose 30 games” sounds like a leak from the PLAYERS side rather than the owners. Why would the owners tell the other side exactly how many games you’re willing to give up? It tells the players they just need to wait until the 30 game mark is reached and the owners will ‘cave’.
While I like neither side, I think the players came into this trying to “win’ after they felt they signed a poor agreement last time, and they set their sights too high. The laundry list of things they wanted from the start was confusing and muddied the waters. Refusing a mediator looks as if they didn’t want a deal, or recognizes that a mediator isn’t going to ‘blow up’ the current plan but is more likely to make smaller changes, which the MLBPA clearly doesn’t want.
Fans look to sports for entertainment and an escape. The fact that both sides are headed toward a lost season after we’ve had to put up with a pandemic and all the resulting loss of life, personal incomes, businesses, etc. is short-sighted, and the sport is going to suffer as a result. .
Does anyone understand the accounting in all this? Owners lose nothing if games are lost. Their portfolios include many ventures, all with their own accounting logs. The ‘team’ accounting book will still function as its own entity. They have plenty of other investments with which to make money. Only the players lose with a reduced schedule.
Yeah they do. They lose value on their investment. And in many cases they owe payments on their stadiums, with no revenue coming in from said stadiums.
So if the owners are so important. Who is going to watch/buy MLB products if there are no superstar players. The issue is the owners own a franchise and stadium. Without the players this game is nothing and worthless. Paying minor league players nothing, and controlling your ability to earn more for the first 7 years of your career is absurd. Teams like the pirates keep their players in the minors until they are 23-24 years old so they control their best years. They don’t care about winning at all and pocket all their revenue sharing. The owners are way out of line I my opinion. If all of the teams tried to win I wouldn’t have such a big problem with them, but in any given year, how many teams are out of it from opening day.
I strongly suggest that we fans assess the amount of money we spend on baseball each season and as soon as games are lost, reallocate that money. Schedule a trip, even if it’s a small one. Buy tickets to a concert. Donate the money to a worthy cause. Spend it on a loved one. Otherwise, when baseball starts again, you’ll be jones-ing for a fix and you’ll come crawling back, tail between your legs.
Hey MLB and all of the MLBPA…go F yourselves.
I am glad the players are solid on this and have a deep strike fund. The owners pulled a fast one with the last CBA. I do not blame them one bit for trying to get what they lost back and then some. MLB is a lucrative business, but the players themselves are the product. They deserve to be treated better than MLB has treated them. And don’t get me started on how MLB treats the minor leagues.
This is coming to pass because the owners think the players will cave with the loss of games. They will soon find out that isn’t going to happen.
I’m OK with there being no season. Don’t capitulate, MLBPA. Hold the proverbial line. This labor dispute has broader implications than just baseball and may set a disturbing precedent as far as labor negotiations are concerned.
Ya know. I know it won’t mean anything to anyone on the grand scheme of things. But I won’t spend any money on MLB this year for however long the lockout lasts. We are at 12 weeks already. If they cancel another month and make it 16, I won’t spend a dime until 16 weeks of play have passed. Nothing else I can do really.
Once again. Locate foot. Ready, aim, fire.
Money. Money. Money. MLB thinks that missing a month of games is going to produce a desirable outcome for their side. I’m assuming they think fans will be so thrilled to have baseball back and that stadiums will be full. Um, no. Google: 1994.
I’ve been a baseball fan since 1960 and as much as I love baseball the game has become boring. Way too many strikeouts, no strategy and man do these games take forever to play. If they do have an extended strike for more than six weeks they’re going to have to swallow a bitter pill when fans don’t come out to the park or watch games.
@Dakota Joe
How has the “game become boring”? You either love baseball or you don’t. People’s attention span has fallen, and that’s why they eat fast food and can’t be bothered cooking, because it’s boring. It’s the same concept, the attention span is too low and waning by the day.
@Fred McGriff, I think I answered your question at least in part. There are way too many strikeouts, games are taking longer and longer despite MLB’s efforts to shorten them, the game has much less strategy and will have even less as the NL is headed for the DH, the stolen base and manufacturing runs has become way less common, when guys do put the ball in play over-shifting means less hits and therefore more reliance on hitting the long ball. And with the over-shifting one would think guys would learn how to bunt but they just can’t. Less excitement in watching a game is why MLB is making attempts to shorten the games.
MLB owners want this lifelong fan to cancel my gameday audio subscription and listen to every NBA playoff game, instead of only the ones the Celtics are in. Great – I love basketball!
Cancel games and I’m out, will never spend another dime on baseball, all my subscriptions will be canceled. Did it with football, I’ll do it with baseball.
Without the players there is no product, not one fan has ever bought a ticket to see an owner.
A lot of league revenue comes from cable contracts.. without the camera operators, there would be no cable contracts. Therefore, the camera operators should take home most of the revenue.
Curious. Was this supposed to be silly-funny, or do you think you’re making an actual point that’s relevant?
I understand that the owners took a bath the last two years — first the 60 game 2020 season, then the absent fans at the start of 2021. Just because you can sell a team for a huge profit doesn’t mean you are making a lot of money season to season.
That being said….this was a lockout, not a strike. A war of choice by the owners. Ask Putin how his “war of choice” is working out.
I’ve suffered through Reinsdorf for most of my life. This ass clown runs all these negotiations for the owners and keeps the White Sox payroll running like the Rays.
When the White Sox are good, he wants to strike. It’s 1994 all over again.
In 1994 they were arguably the best team in the AL. Now, they are maybe 6th. 1994 may have cost them a trip to the World Series. This year Sox fans will be missing nothing whether there is a season or not, because of their cheap owner like you pointed out. They have a ton of talent but are simply not on the level of teams that are serious about winning and commit more payroll to that, as we’ve seen the past 2 Octobers. Sox were like 15th in payroll last year and there was a 50M payroll gap between them and the Astros. If the season ever does start, other teams will undoubtedly get better signing the remaining free agents while the Sox will be pretty much the same as they were last year. I know people point out that the Sox are now like 5th in payroll, but there is like a 10M difference between them being 5th or 10th. They will almost undoubtedly not be higher than 10th when all is said and done.
More owners are fighting to run their team like the Rays than they are fighting to win the World Series of baseball. Something is very wrong with that picture.
Charley was right. Make everyone a free agent every year.
Could there be less urgency and more complacency on the Owner’s side because they don’t rely on the Major League product to put food on the table?? Ostensibly they’ve made their fortunes elsewhere so these franchises are just hobby horses for them like a rich man’s Strat-O-Matic. So I guess it makes sense to me why the owners aren’t champing at the bit to get this season rolling.
In that sense, they don’t owe anything to the fans either. Because I betcha in their minds they perceive the fans should just be grateful for whatever middling crumbs they decide to hand out to us. (Even though it’s our tax dollars that pay for the elaborate stadiums, in most cases.)
Here’s what SHOULD be included in every collective bargaining agreement: if any work stoppage results in lost games (including spring training), both parties will evenly reimburse the parking lot attendants, concession stand workers, ushers, groundskeepers, etc. who suffer as a result.
In other words, no matter who “wins’ the CBA, it’ll cost them millions. THAT might expedite matters.
A brutal part of this is that owners can write off losses due to not playing. Congress should allow the players to do the same to even the playing field.
MLB indicates they are willing to lose $2 billion by cancelling a month of games? Only way they would do that is if they are trying to screw the players out of $2 billion.
Value of an MLB team 10 years ago: about $475 million. Value of an MLB team today? About $2.1 BILLION.
The idea is that the players should actually share in some of that growth in value. Gee, what a concept.
Did you know that minor league players GET NO PAY for spring training?
Well then I’m not surprised at all. I predicted that an agreement wouldn’t be reached until around the beginning of May with a start to the season Memorial Day weekend.
The owners claim owning a team is a losing proposition and then proceed to cancel games that would lose them money? Makes tons of sense right?
If Putin lived in the U.S., he’d be an MLB owner.
Embarrassment
For me, the players are only part of the product in the MLB. The real attraction of the game for me is the scope of the season. The depth and breadth of it amazes me. Probably because I didn’t grow up with anything like it, and therefore don’t take it for granted. Take the same current day MLB players and put them in a 60 game season and I think I’m a bit ho hum about the game. Take the Triple A players and put them on the big stage every day for 162 games, and I think I’m still right into it.
It’s each to their own, but the players definitely aren’t everything for me. The MLB organised stage component of it all is a big draw. The way people are grimacing at the thought of a reduced season, would suggest I’m not alone.
Anyhow, looks like it won’t be 162 this year. Disappointing.
Jeff Passan said it right on ESPN:
“If you went and got the next 1,200 best players in the world, the product would suffer greatly. If you handed MLB teams over to any 30 competent businesspeople, the sport would not suffer. Actually, it might improve. It doesn’t take a billionaire to leverage a spot in a legalized monopoly with profound built-in revenues.”
I’ve often thought about that. I suspect if you replace the current 30 controlling billionaires with 30 new controlling billionaires, things wouldn’t be too different. 30 is a fair sample when it comes to human beings. I struggle with the concept that the current 30 just all happen to be all tight fisted aholes.
So…let’s give them the collective voice of the fans!!
https://chng.it/m8rLjtnB
Please spread the word!
I side with the owners. What people need to realize is it is a business. These owners were billionaires before they bought their teams. The team is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Let the players go work regular jobs for 50000 a year and enjoy their 2.5% pay increase each year. All the players are doing is reaching for the stars. Keep changing the money but in the end it’s the same amount just a new way of receiving it. Owners own businesses to make money and the players union is trying to shut the business down. I root for a team and like players, but in the end of my favorite players leave my team I’m still rooting for the team. Let’s just boycott all of baseball, don’t go to games, don’t buy player jersey (which players earn money from) and send the players to the real world. Owners will still be billionaires and players will be working along side us.
Here we go, its starts with no spring training, then starts eating into the season.. Once season games are being missed, its easy for the owners to carry on with no games, all the while this just hurts baseball and the fan base.. The owners and MLBPA lament all the time ohh why the drop in attendance.. maybe it has to do with all the whiners on both sides claiming they do not have enough of your money and every time the fans turn around they hear one side grumbling about the other.. shut up or play ball, or tear it all down… If they keep this @#$% up all we will keep seeing a slowly dying sport.
The I and U keys are next to each other. “Strike find”, but I know what you meant, strike fund.
I like the shorter season so this is a win for me
Chargers fan?
Perhaps it’s time for MLB to get rid of the owners who never seem to be able to compete, no matter how much revenue sharing they receive. Failing that, now that the DH is apparently going to be universal, dump the league names and consider splitting the teams into an upper and lower tier, much like soccer is handled in Europe. If that’s not the answer, then seriously consider contracting some teams and then do it.
If it’s the same owners who can do nothing but complain and obstruct who are the ones preventing real progress, and a more equitable split between owners and players from occuring, who really needs them? They can make tidy profits from selling to people who actually care.
Tampa Bay finds a way to compete despite its horrible stadium situation, yet Pittsburgh with its beautiful setting cannot? All over this site I see comments like “nobody forces the players to play if they don’t like it.” Well, no one makes owners own teams if they can’t seem to do it successfully.
While some concerns thrive, others go bankrupt. This is the nature of business. If some MLB teams cannot make it, new ownership or moving the team is the answer. Otherwise, contract the franchise. Nothing last forever.
Contract the team.? Is that fair to the fans who follow the team for generations? No team is going to go bankrupt. Not with the TV money they get.
Tampa has a good front office and knows how to develop players.
But when it comes time to pay $$$$$$ they trade the players away.
Who do you curse at under breath for having to pay $20.00 for a beer, The Owners or the players?