Although teams are calling the Angels about the availability of two-way standout Shohei Ohtani, the Angels have no plans to move their international superstar, per Jon Morosi of the MLB Network (via Twitter).
The Angels are again mired in a disappointing season, one that has already resulted in the firing of manager Joe Maddon. At 39-54, the Halos are 15 games under .500 and more than 20 games behind the Astros for the division lead. They’re more than 10 games behind the last wild card spot. It certainly would seem like another lost season for Los Angeles.
But holding onto Ohtani is a reasonable position to take, even considering the current state of the club. Ohtani is an All-Star for the second consecutive season, and he’s again producing on both sides of the ball. At the plate, Ohtani is slashing .256/.347/.482 over 386 plate appearances. He also owns a 2.80 ERA/2.41 FIP across 93 1/3 innings. All together, Ohtani could very well be looking at another MVP season.
If Soto is worth $500 million, how much is Ohtani worth?
A guy almost 30 compare to a guy only 23 I bet lower
Actually, Ohtani just turned 28 (28.018 technically). The difference in age is 4.101, not the 7 years that you are implying. Accuracy counts.
Understood if your only comparing Ohtani the hitter and Soto, but your getting an ace of the staff as well. You can’t afford to let that walk. I thin you have to consider what it would cost to replace both and see how much the AAV is.
The Angel’s should reconsider and trade Ohtani. Example; from the Cardinals, the Angels could actually fill any gaps the Angels have in either mlb ready prospects or mlb players on the roster or both. It would be a boat load of young exciting players!!!
Weggie is right… take the contract for one of the best hitters in the game then add the contract as one of the best pitchers of the game, and add them together…. You’re looking at like a $650 mil contract
he won’t, in million, years go to the cards.
He sells tickets to a team that is out of post season competition in July. It would be a major blow to the fan base.
He would make more sense to be moved if they were going move him in the off season when more teams would be interested and the 2022 draft picks would be available.
He brings stuff to the table that we have never seen
Totally agree. Ohtani wants to win the that’s not in the angels near future
Should have come to Seattle.
Or a boat load of crap, right know you have a player playing two spots on the team only taking up one spot. They know what they have with Ohtani on both sides of the plate. Prospects are never a guarantee.
@Ben, That fan base will definitely dwindle. Once you trade Ohtani, Trout will follow. And all you have left is the second coming of Pujols (Rendon) who does nothing but collect paychecks. As long as Arte Moreno is in charge, you will lose. The only thing Arte is good at is spending money to FA who are past their primes and does nothing for the club.
That would be great! It’ll make the Angels non-existent in the minds of Baseball Fans. The Angels will never win another World Series since they just traded away Babe Ruth. Long live the Bambino Curse! But now it belongs to the California Angels. What would be awesome is to trade him to the Dodgers, you know the real Los Angeles team….
Ohtani just turned 28. This is considered his age 27 season for MLB purposes.
Higher AAV, way fewer years
If i had to guess, Soto wants a 36M AAV and between 10 and 14 years. 14 is a lifetime deal, 10 years he thinks he can get another deal pegged out.
I find it doubtful anyone would give 10 years to Ohtani at his age. You just don’t know how he’s gonna hold up. I’d bet he gets a better AAV than Soto and maybe even sets a record AAV wise if he goes short deals, aLa Bauer. But if he wants one long deal, I could see 6-8 year, 40-44M a year being as high as it goes. Shorter the deal, higher end of that AAV and vice versa
Ohtani is 28, Soto is only 23. Not much of a difference in real life, but 5 years in sports is a lot. Soto can take a 13 year deal, and still hit free agency again. If Ohtani was 23, he’d easily get a 600-700 + million yr deal based on two way playing
If that is Soto’s real age
You’re the idiot if you think immigration conspiracy theories are from the left…
What does his comment have to do with the right or the left?
I hit the search engines last week to look up past players who were caught submitting bogus identities. Several turned up, and every one was from the Dominican Republic — which is where Soto is from.
One example:
https://www.nytimes.com/2001/01/31/sports/baseball-either-they-were-clones-or-something-was-wrong-here.html
Comment I replied to was deleted..
That article is from 21 years ago.
I remember the Yankees were suspicious of Jose Contreras’ age and Cuban record keeping in general. That’s probably why they shied away from Moncada.
Depends. Are you talking as a player or as a public relations gimmick? As a player, I would take Soto hands down. As a PR gimmick, nobody has ever been bigger than Ohtani since Babe Ruth.
Ohtani is no gimmick and you’re a baseball idiot if you believe that; he’s the most talented player in MLB and I’d take him for the next 3-5 years over Soto or anyone else.
Well good luck to you with that.
Agreed with taking him for the next 5 years over anyone. Ohtani is a freak in the best way. A two way player that is very good both pitching and with the bat.
What other player can give you over 500 at bats and over 120 innings pitched — with an ERA around 3.00 and an OPS over .800? He’s like a football player that’s both a great QB and a top middle linebacker.
Most valuable player might be a stretch. Sure he’s a top 10 pitcher and top 20 hitter which is one hell of a combo but not top 5 in either category and already said he wants 40+ mil a year. Take that 40 mil a year and you could find a middle of the order bat plus a #2 pitcher. Think that’s a better way to allocate your funds. Not knocking ohtani he’s very impressive but you have to factor in everything. In a vacuum ohtani > Soto
Middle of the order bats are $30-36 million AAV. #2 starter are $25-30 million AAV. You are definitely not getting both for $40 million.
You’re right on this. You get it. Giving Ohtani 40 million is more than worth it because it’s like paying one player for the for less than the price of two.
“As a player hands down”? I think you meant as a hitter…as a player nobody comes close to what Ohtani offers
I meant EXACTLY what I wrote. If you disagree, that’s fine. I’ll still sleep well at night.
hiflew;
Gimmick might not be the best word.
Soto is a much better offensive player on the days he plays than the days Ohtani DH’s. Obviously Ohtani is also a TOR pitcher.
If we’re talking salary Ohtani gets more as more fans will attend games and watch on TV to see him pitch and hit than watch Soto hit. In fact, until the Nationals said they were taking offers on Soto, how many people here that don’t live in DC made it a point to watch him play? Furthermore, as much as I liked Soto since his rookie year, I think Rafael Devers is a better overall hitter and has improved quite a bit at 3B while Soto is still a below average LF.
Keep in mind that the Babe only pitched and hit for a short time. Once he was a hitter he stopped pitching.
I heard former pitcher Ben McDonald that now does the Orioles games on TV say he was amazed that Ohtani could play the day after pitching. McDonald said the day after he started a game he was too sore to do anything.
Can Soto pitch?
At the rate the Nationals are going, we might get to see that at the end of a 14-1 game.
If Soto gives you an 8 WAR season and Ohtani combined (pitching and hitting) gives you a 8 WAR season, why would Ohtani be worth more? Ohtani is also higher risk because if he’s injured, a team loses and needs to replace both a hitter and a pitcher, and then there’s the part where Soto is younger. So I’d say that Ohtani is not worth more than Soto.
RobM3 mins ago
If Soto gives you an 8 WAR season and Ohtani combined (pitching and hitting) gives you a 8 WAR season,
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Except for the fact that Soto doesn’t give you an 8, and Ohtani does. Soto, WAR/650 PAs is actually only 5.7 for his career. Ohtani’s 2021 bWAR was 9.0. His WAR this year is 4.6 (projects to 8.0). There is certainly a risk with Ohtani, but he is certainly a better player right now.
Joe, I support both players getting paid. The question is who should get the larger deal? You seem to be indicating Ohtani.
My issue with the OP was he was implying that Ohtani should get a bigger deal because he is a pitcher/hitter, yet that ignores other factors. I don’t agree with his leading question that if Soto gets $500MM than Ohtani must be worth more. (Not sure either gets $500MM, btw. Soto and Boras are more focused on the AAV. A 10-year deal with a high AAV and an opt-out could get the deal done for well under $500MM.)
As you yourself noted, Ohtani is a touch over four years older. That is not insignificant as Ohtani will turn 30 in the first year of his next long-term deal. Both Ohtani and Soto came up in 2018, although Soto started his season a littler later in mid-May, IIRC. That I suspect is why the Nats have one more year of control on Soto than the Angels do with Ohtani. I don’t remember any discussion of service-time manipulation when Soto debuted, but he was also 19, or maybe I just wasn’t paying that close attention.
Anyway, they both arrived the same year, but Soto still has approximately 1.5 higher career rWAR, even though Soto arrived later. Obviously, Ohtani missing time with TJS accounts for that, but that is a critical piece of information. His two-way nature is great, but as he enters his 30s I simply don’t see him being able to maintain both at a high level while remaining consistently healthy. Players break down more in their 30s than their 20s and Ohtani will be attempting to remain healthy and highly productive as a pitcher and a hitter throughout his 30s. I may end up paying for a two-way player who partway through the deal becomes a one-way player.
My guess is Soto’s best years are still in front of him. I don’t have that same belief with Ohtani, so back to the OP’s question, I believe Soto gets paid more.
RobM23 mins ago
Joe, I support both players getting paid. The question is who should get the larger deal? You seem to be indicating Ohtani.
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I’m an agnostic on getting paid, I have no issue with the owner getting richer, or the player getting richer.
But past that, I favor Ohtani very slightly. I wouldn’t pay Soto $40M per on an extended deal. I’d pay Ohtani $50 on a shorter duration deal.
In a general sense, a deal that pays a 23 year old until he is 37 is risker than signing a 28 year old until he is 37. The end date is the same, but more years always involves more risk.
Because you can add another top level player to your roster at other positions because Ohtani fills two positions at a high level.
No player is worth that kind of money.
MAYBE $250. Anyone with any baseball sense knows Ohtani will get paid significantly less than Soto when he reaches free agency.
I don’t know man… I was at his game last night and it was packed like a playoff game. No one goes to Nats games when they are in town, Soto or not. From a financial stand point it looks like it makes a ton of sense to put as much effort as possible into getting Ohtani on your squad. The owners spend money to make money. Shohei is the better business bet.
One of the sites (Fangraphs maybe?) did an article recently saying that Ohtani is worth roughly $65 million a year.
That would make sense based on their cost-per-win model, which is around $8MM per win. Judge even when injured puts up near 5 WAR seasons and when healthy 8 WAR seasons, so he also has an argument for $60MM plus. Teams, however, don’t want to pay full value up front, although they often end up paying more in the latter decline years.
6-8 years at a similar AAV to what Scherzer received from the Mets.
You’re Pads Fans
I will never understand why a guy on a 4th place team who are 5 games from last place is in serious contention for MVP. Before Ohtani the Angels were a garbage team with him they are a garbage team, how is that Most Value? I get he can pitch and he play hit, but you play to win the game.
This is why.
https://www.fangraphs.com/warleaders.aspx?season=2022&team=al&type=
Soto is a way better hitter but he can’t throw 100 and rack up k’s
He’s not a way better hitter at all but ohtani is the way better player!
If Ohtani didn’t have to pitch once a week and only concentrate on hitting he’d be a better hitter than Soto if he’s not already
We don’t know that and it is in fact unlikely. Soto’s career OPS+ is the second highest ever in the HISTORY of that game for a player age 23. Only Ted Williams is higher and take a look at the players behind him and it’s pretty stunning. Soto’s plate discipline and eye vastly exceeds Ohtani’s. This is no knock on Ohtani the hitter, but I don’t believe some fans fully recognize Soto’s historic-level hitting skill. Ohtani is also historic, but it’s because he’s a two-way player performing at a high level. That type of player doesn’t exist but for him. Don’t assume if he focused on a single discipline like hitting that he’d be a better hitter than Soto. I don’t see any evidence to make that leap.
need to move trout stead of Ohtani
No one will eat that crazy contract trout is stuck in the hell that is Anaheim
The weather and the women are great in “Hell” in case you’re wondering.
He’s a married man
If the Angels eat 100 million of trouts contract I could see him playing for the Philadelphia Phillies New York Mets or New York Yankees
Lol, every team in Baseball would take the full trout contract. What is wrong with you people?
Yup. Including the Pirates and Rays. They’re not going to get his kind of production for less elsewhere.
Agreed
Stanton for Trout would be huge
For the Yankees
Yea. For the week or 2 they’re not on the IL.
Make sure to tell the crowd to tip their waitresses before you exit the stage.
Stanton for Trout would be dumb. Dumb for the Angels.
I’ve been saying that they should move Trout for years. Unlike the other dozen players that the writers consider “generation players”, Trout truly was the best of his generation. But every player has a tipping point, and Trout is at about his. Four years ago, you could’ve named your price. He is still real good, but $300M/8 until age 38 will scare off almost everyone.
No one will take that contract, Trout never plays baseball anymore.
As sad as it is being a White Sox fan I’m glad I’m not a halos fan. That team is f*cked.
Roob, it sux arse. It starts with Arte and sludges it’s way down.
You’re probably correct but Trouts trade value is questionable and it’s unlikely Ohtani stays past next year. To keep both Moreno needs to spend north of $250M plus hire someone who knows how to develop talent. He won’t do that so we must trade ohtani
call the phils and see if they want trout—my guess is they would
Full NTC
Losing is okay in the eyes of the front office. As long as they can sell tickets
Do you think ANY MLB owner would be OK with winning in front of an empty stadium? Owners are in this to make money. First and foremost. Sure some are competitive and want to win, but not at the expense of making money. And anyone that thinks otherwise also explains why they never had enough money to buy a team.
Yup, most of the ‘they only want to sell out the stadium” is pure idiocy. The only way you sell out is by winning.
Tell that to the Cubs. One title in 120 years and sold out most every year. It’s not always about winning, it is about being loved by fans regardless of whether you win or not.
The Rockies are a prime example. They don’t win often, but they are consistently in the top 10 in league attendance. Their fans, myself included, LOVE them.
And yet the Angels drew 3 million plus for 17 straight years while making the playoffs in only 7 of those years.
The Cubs and Red Sox had full stadiums for decades with no rings or even pennants.
Hiflew makes it sound like it’s winning or selling tickets. Some teams do both though. It doesn’t have to be one or the other.
Considering the original post was about losing vs. selling tickets, I figured an either/or argument worked.
No it doesn’t have to be one or the other, but if it has to be the owners will ALWAYS choose money first. And so would anyone else in that position.
No the original post wasn’t about tickets vs wins. They stated that losing was ok as long as tickets are sold. Go back and read it again. You just love to respond to the contrary on here.
::anyone that thinks otherwise explains why they never had enough money to buy a team::
So *thats* why I’m a billion short on buying my favorite MLB team…man I couldn’t figure that out. LOL.
SO, THAT ENDS THAT!
Angels need to stock their system bad, though
They had the system stocked very well. The farm led by Adell and Marsh was a top 10 system. It just seems to have not really worked out well for them.
They’ve lost touch with reality. They keep on insisting on Marsh & Adell, and both need to be in AAA. It’s like the Angels believe that the best way to go from benching 150 to benching 225, is to go straight to 225. Marsh & Adell have a combined 33/3 K/W over the past 28 days.
It shouldn’t have been. Anyone that watched the players on that list regularly in the low minors would have known their ability shown didn’t match up with the promise or occasional numbers they put up
Marsh is more for real ability wise but rushed way too fast, a lot of development time had been missed because of injury. Adell just doesn’t get it and was rushed on top of that. Canning was so high up largely because he was so seasoned with so many pitches out of UCLA, but needed more time against MLB quality hitters in AAA. Suarez needed so much more time in A+/AA especially, he was rushed way too fast. Maitan is one of the worst players you’ll ever see play the game and should have never been on their prospect lists, he only was because of his signing bonus. Guys like Jones, Thaiss and Rengifo had been underperforming for years in the minors.
If they Angels don’t win next year, Ohtani will be a Dodger in 2024.
preferably giants.
Trading the most interesting player in baseball is surely a good way to keep your fans engaged, right?
Currently in their 7th straight year of sub-500, 4th place in ALW, baseball
The fact that any fans are still engaged is the problem. It gives Moreno the reason he cares about most ($$$) to keep putting out business as usual, top-loaded but otherwise piecemeal, shallow, garbage teams
Why are the Angels considered a disappointment? The core of the current team has been together since 2020. The Angels haven’t had a winning record since 2015. What makes people think that 2022 would be any different than 2021 or 2020?
Idk maybe because they are 20 games behind 1st place with 2 of the most exciting players in baseball on the team.
Ohtani and Trout were just as exciting the last couple of years.
They did the same thing the entire decade of the 2010s except Trout was the younger guy and Pujols was the older guy. Now people are starting to turn on Trout just like they did Albert.
hiflew – “Now people are starting to turn on Trout just like they did Albert.”
I haven’t heard or read anywhere from anyone who is turning on Trout. You’ll see the occasional “Trout in decline” or “Trout is injury prone” comments, but they are non-Angels fans who would love to see Trout on their team.
Pujols, on the other hand, was turned on because he stunk for us. He couldn’t run so any infield hit was an out. He struck out a ton or killed any rally when he came up to bat.
You can’t compare the two.
I CAN compare the two, because I just did.
Trout is no comparison to Pujols. Besides, when we got Pujols it seemed like he was 35. No way that guy has been honest with his age.
hiflew – actullay you didn’t compare Trout and Pujols. Your comment was a statement about fans being critical. The only comparison is they are both male and both baseball players. That’s about where the comparison ends, which is why I said you can’t compare the two.
They were 18 games behind 1st last season with the same guys
They were 10 games behind in just a 60 game season in 2020 with largely the same team
They were 35 games behind in 2019 with much of this club
So as S_man said, why did anyone truly expect anything different?
It’s an interesting question. This team was different. When the season started, it was believed they had a bullpen, a third baseman, two young talented outfielders, a young first baseman coming off an all star season. A gold glove caliber second baseman. Three solid starters, plus Thor and Lorenzen. Shortstop was a big question mark and I have no idea why the hole was not addressed, but other than that there was reason for optimism…there still is.
And there is also plenty of reasons for the skeptics to be skeptical about Mike Trout ever sniffing the playoffs again.
And don’t forget about Taylor Ward’s ridiculous hot start.
The thing that people always dismiss is health. Yes, the Angels have had this core of players the last three season but they’re always banged up. Rendon has had back-to-back season-ending surgeries. Trout was only supposed to be on the DL temporarily last season and never returned and the same thing might happen again this season. David Fletcher has been on the DL most of the season. Griffin Canning has yet to throw a pitch this season.
It’s hard to win with so many injuries and their thin roster is getting exposed.
This was before Ward, who I thought might be a nice 4th outfielder. I still think he’s going to be a 4th outfielder, but that’s just an opinion.
Wow who would have guessed?
No reason for Trout and Ohtani to be on this team if they’ll finish 20 games out with them. Might as well trade both, build an unbeatable rotation and get some young bats
Except Ohtani is the type of player you build around. It would take 2 top end free agents to replace him
44 – Trout is the type of player you build around too and here we are 10 years later still talking about it.
That’s because the Angels failed to do so.
I am Happy that the Angels aren’t making the mistake that the Red Sox made with Babe Ruth which would trigger a 100 year curse. Don’t give him up. He is the Babe.
teams could keep players at whatever compensation the wanted then. the angels simply cannot keep another $40-45 million on top of what they have. trading him this offseason helps so much in building the team. then we can keep velasquezes as backups.
The Angels have a $152 million payroll with top 5 attendance most seasons and a top 10 TV deal. They can very easily afford a payroll at the $230 million CBT. Moreno is just cheap.
They need to convince him that they can win consistently. And pay the most money. It won’t be easy. He has at least 10 other options.
lolAngels. Only worth keeping Ohtani if he signs an extension this offseason. He’s said he wants to win and another season in Anaheim isn’t gonna do it. If he’s serious about contending he’s not going back to the Angels as a FA. As popular as he is, they need more than another superstar to become contenders. Look at the amount of AAA players they’ve been fielding all season. They need to replenish their farm system and this is the time to do it. Sell now while his value is high or risk losing him for nothing next off season.
Only worth keeping Ohtani if he signs an extension this offseason.
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Yup, at some point, the Angels need to make a decision, same as in the real world. You have to know whether or not you can sign him. If you can’t, then keeping him so that you can finish 4th again, holds no appeal to me.
The next person who calls them the “Trashstros” or refers to the “cheating” thing (all teams “cheat”, hate to break it to the deniers), there’s going to be a problem.
What?
asstros appologist?
Did I miss the comments where people are talking about the astros?
I do agree that all teams have cheated though. Giants first base coach got caught stealing signs last night and the umpires stopped the game to tell him and Kapler to keep their coaches in the box.
Some teams just take it further than others.
Cheating Trashtros. I said it. What you gonna do about it?
Absolutely nothing. Just laugh at you and others like you and the sorry teams you support.
This team is so bad. Can’t afford to field a competitive team with Trout and Rendon’s anchor contracts. Roster is the most top heavy team in the league. It’s like a little league team.
To be fair, Soto looks 23. Pujols looked 40 for about 7 years.
Soto looks a lot older than 23
Yeah NO way Soto is only 23. NO WAY.
Ohtani is the real superstar and the Angels have him under contract for one more year. That’s money in the bank for them. If they care about winning they can move in that direction by selling their biggest assets, Ohtani and Trout. The Nats said they weren’t trading Sosa either, but it’s probably going to happen. Never say never.
Sosa?
July, 2022: Angels not planning to move Ohtani.
June, 2022: Nats not planning to move Soto.
‘Angels Not Planning To Move Ohtani’
And back on June 1, 2022, this headline on this same site:
‘Nationals GM Mike Rizzo: “We Are Not Trading Juan Soto”’
Ha! Great minds. I beat you by an entire minute. (I have not peered above to see who might have beat both of us!)
I tip my cap to your superior posting speed, Quick Draw. (I didn’t scroll through the whole thread either. Took me a while to hunt down the actual headline.)
That a was before Soto rejected the biggest contract ever. Why keep him? He doesn’t want to play in the miserable weather or team.
With Boras as his agent, Soto might sign with an expansion team in Juneau if the money’s good enough.
Another MVP? Hahaha…
Are you laughing because it’s true?
Nope
It’s a shame that Trout may very well only play in three playoff games in his entire career…
Damn shame.
I don’t think he cares about winning that much though. Everyone saw this coming a mile away and Trout still re-signed without testing the market. Some guys value money and familiarity more than being competitive. Nothing wrong with that, especially considering he has a HOF plaque reserved no matter how many October games he doesn’t play.
Only 2 teams play in the World Series all the rest of the teams go home You could say that about a lot of players don’t play in the playoff
talking heads ripped Kershaw apart for not carrying the dodgers in october. trout gets a pass from the media for always losing because he’s a nice guy. baseball is a team sport so I wouldn’t put it all on trout but he chose to sign that big extension with a loser franchise. he has to wear the badge of a loser while he counts his millions. a spade is spade
it’s the path he chose. can’t feel bad for him.
They weren’t planning on being a losing team either. But here we are.
The Angels FO must obviously think they have enough talent to win. And while names like Trout, Rendon & Ohtani make it seem that way, I don’t agree. Maybe they should be better than their current record, but I don’t see a playoff team here.
Ohtani the P is Max or Kershaw like but younger $40mil per
Ohtani the DH is JDMart like but younger so $25 mil per
Anything lower than 10/$650 million is a bargain..
I can see your point on AAV but not the length. Max got $40 million on a 3 year deal and I don’t think JD ever got a 10 year offer either. A 10 year deal seems too risky for a guy like Ohtani. Maybe the Rangers will prove me wrong though.
It probably will be set up as a 10yr deal with opt oute.outs.. like most these huge deals are
They wouldn’t even get a huge haul for Trout anymore. Not for a 31 year old, fragile, declining Mike Trout- especially with what’s still remaining on his contract. The only viable option for them in order to be competitive (maybe) by 2026 at the earliest would be to rebuild and trade any player over age 25 who has any trade vaule, yet they don’t even have much to trade for a rebuild. An organization going nowhere. If they had traded Trout before the 2020 season and never signed Rendon (a terrible contract before the 1st games was played, it would be a much different situation.
If not Ohtani they need to move Trout… they would still get a decent haul right now…and could get 2 or 3 MLB pieces to bridge the loss of Trout as they wait for the specs they also get to come up… as wellbas freeing up $$ to extend Ohtani… no way in hell they can pay $50 +$35 +$30 to 3 players per and still address 5 SP and the rest of the team
Walker/Gorman would get it done
LAA could really improve their TEAM by moving Othani.. a lot… if they don’t extend or trade him by the desdline..value only goes down..if they don’t extend or trade him in the offseason..then he becomes a deadline 23 rental.. lucky to get a 50 and a 45 spec for him for 2 months..more like a 45 and 2 40s next July… they can get 2 or 3 50’s another 2 or 3 ROY top 6-7 types and 3 or so 45 specs
Right now for him..
Since Pads are my team a package of CJ Abrams + Gore + Cronesworth (AS) + Hassell + Campusano + Susana + Acosta SS + Mears
But if they wait til next deadline
Rosario + Zavala OF type return… LAA some kind of well run org…Not!
As an Angels fan, I would hate to trade Ohtani, but the package listed above of SD players/prospects would be tough to pass up. It fills alot of holes on the Angels major league roster and adds depth at the minor league level. As an added bonus, for me as a SD fan, I get to continue watching Ohtani.
I’m not well versed in valuing trade proposals so I don’t know if this is reasonable or not. At first glance, I would guess the Pads say no. That said, Henry sounds like he knows his stuff.
The debate about how much he’s worth is a good one. Personally I don’t think anybody is worth $50M AAV. Not even $40M. That said let’s break it down. What would a full time DH who hits in the high .250s, 40 bombs, 90-100 RBI’s per year worth? Nelson Cruz is a good example. Maybe $18M per year? Now, how about a full time pitcher with about a 3.00 ERA, high K, and about 1.00 WHIP worth? But he only pitches every 6th day. Maybe $25-$30M? So do you then just simply add up the two estimates because he’s one person? Keep in mind the injury factor. If he’s injured you loose two “players”. You’ll also need to adjust your pitching staff for 6 starters vice the usual 5. Lastly, who believes he can sustain being a two way player for, say, 10 more years??
Nelson’s age makes him a poor comp in my opinion. Ohtani is so unique I have no idea what his FA contract would look like though. $43-$48 million AAV seems fair though. How the market values the length of his contract is another story. 10 years is too long to me.
I would hate to be a Halo’s fan. This team has no hope.
I give the Angels one more season. If theyre out of it by the all star game and or Rendon is hurt again im sure Trout will having had enough and want out.
32 yr old Trout maybe not capable of CF every game by then at $35 mil per starts to become a what prospect do the LAA need to attach to him to move him… especially if he continues his 2-5 visits to the IL yearly routine
Good thinking. Hold onto him. You’re going to do the same thing next year. Lol.
The only sports owner worse than Arte Moreno is Dan Snyder
Shoot for the moon and include Rendon in any trade!
Definitely an offseason trade candidate. He’s not staying in Anaheim and Angels would be dumb to not get anything in return for him.
This is such a quandary because Ohtani is amazing and any team would benefit from having him. But if the Angels pay to keep him (40m to 45m AAV), they will not have any money to build a team around him and Trout that can compete. If I was Moreno, I would listen to offers but it would have to be an unprecedented return. Moreno needs to show Trout the loyalty he deserves and build the proper team around him.
Angels need to go sell all their players and enter into a rebuild mode. What a miserable failure and waste of the good Mike Trout years.
I think about it this way…
Arte is paying Thor and Upton a combined
$49 million this year.
Shohei is better than both combined, $45 million/yr would be a bargain.
6 years – $276 million.
Or 7/300 and add on to his 2023 contract
Ohtani is a Dodger in 2024 – if there’s no Trea or Soto. It would behoof the Angels to make that trade now. Rendon is a glass house after throwing stones at the Hollywood Lifestyle. Trout may have made peace with how his career will end. The rest of the organization is just trying to play themselves out of Anaheim.
They’ll have to get lucky in ‘23, and Arte just doesn’t have that.
Be smart, Perry. The iron will never be hotter.
Last night’s game is Nevin’s fault for not pulling him out early.
Worst team in sports in terms of assets available and product put out. Waste of trouts amazing career. Hope Ohtani leaves ASAP
There is no way the Amgels trade Ohtani – he’s their cash cow. He makes the team over 20MM just from merchandising sales alone. His salary is about 25% of the revenue he brings in.
Your numbers are correct but you’re assuming he stays. Risky assumption
Guys… I love reading your comments. We’re all die hard Angel fans. But at the end of the day, with or without Ohtani, the angels are destined to failure. They are the least talented organization, from top to bottom, in all of baseball.
Don’t see the Angels up close much as a Braves fan.. but looking at what they’ve trotted out there in this series, they ought to consider trading him and Trout. Just an awful collection of players. Could turn those two into like 10-12 nice pieces. May hurt for a minute.. but hit on at least half those pieces coming back and you’re a winning team real soon. Hope they can improve (as a lifelong Ducks fan I hope both OC teams are competitive soon)
Ohtani is overrated. As a hitter, he’s a full-time DH with a SLG of .482. That’s good but not great for that position. As a starting pitcher, he’s been great, but hasn’t pitched a lot. He’s never pitched more than 130 full innings in a single season. Rather have Soto who’s an elite corner OF over a full-time DH who’s not an elite hitter or a starting pitcher who has been elite, but in limited work.