The Mets and Pirates have swapped a pair of big leaguers. New York announced they’ve landed designated hitter/first baseman Daniel Vogelbach from the Bucs, trading reliever Colin Holderman in a one-for-one deal.
New York has been on the hunt for another addition to the lineup. Team president Sandy Alderson told the New York Post last week they were seeking an upgrade at designated hitter. Vogelbach had emerged recently as a target, although Jon Heyman of the New York Post reports they’re still looking to add offense over the next ten days even with him in the fold.
Vogelbach had a decent showing over his three months in the Steel City. Pittsburgh signed the burly left-handed hitter to a modest $1MM guarantee during Spring Training. That takes the form of an $800K salary, a little less than half of which remains to be paid out, and at least a $200K buyout on a $1.5MM club option for next season. That option price looks more than reasonable given how Vogelbach has performed, and he’d remain arbitration-eligible for the 2024 campaign as well.
The 29-year-old has tallied 278 plate appearances across 75 games, hitting .228/.338/.430 with 12 home runs. It’s not an impressive batting average, but he’s walking at a massive 14.4% clip and hitting for strong power. By measure of wRC+, Vogelbach’s production has been 18 percentage points above league average after accounting for PNC Park’s pitcher-friendly nature.
Those kinds of numbers are par for the course for Vogelbach. This season’s .228 batting average is a career high, but he’s walked in more than 15% of his career trips to the plate and typically posts above-average slugging output. His 30-homer season in 2019 looks like a a bit of an outlier, but Vogelbach is a career .234/.358/.459 hitter against right-handed pitching. He’s done nothing against southpaws (career .137/.258/.230 line), but he’ll add a left-handed platoon option to the mix for manager Buck Showalter.
The Vogelbach pickup is the firmest indication the Mets plan to move on from at least one of Dominic Smith or J.D. Davis. The former, as a left-handed bat, seems the player most displaced by the Vogelbach addition. New York has already discussed Smith with teams like the Red Sox and Cubs, and Andy Martino of SNY wrote this morning they’re looking to deal him before the August 2 trade deadline. Smith landed on the 10-day injured list yesterday, but he can still be traded even if he doesn’t return to the field before then.
As for the Bucs, they’ll add a controllable arm who can step right into the major league bullpen. Holderman, 26, made his debut earlier this season. He’s tossed 17 2/3 innings of 2.04 ERA ball, striking out an above-average 26.9% of batters faced while inducing whiffs on a solid 12.4% of his offerings. Holderman has doled out a few too many free passes, but he’s averaged nearly 96 MPH on his sinker and gotten strong swinging strike numbers on his mid-80s cutter-slider.
Holderman has also performed well in Triple-A, posting a 2.51 ERA through 14 1/3 frames. The former ninth-round pick has fanned upwards of 30% of opponents in the minors this year, also inducing ground-balls at a huge 63.6% clip. He’s shown far better strike-throwing acumen in Triple-A than he has at the big league level to date, making him an interesting upper-level bullpen add for the Bucs.
Holderman is only in his first of three minor league option years, so the Pirates can freely shuttle him between Pittsburgh and Triple-A Indianapolis for the next couple seasons. He won’t reach arbitration eligibility until after the 2024 campaign at the earliest, and future optional assignments could push that trajectory back even further.
Jason Mackey of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette first reported the Pirates were nearing a deal to send Vogelbach to the Mets. Jon Heyman of the New York Post was first to report the deal was agreed upon, and was first to report the Pirates would receive Holderman in exchange.
Image courtesy of USA Today Sports.
Lol Mets
did they throw in Van Meter?
The Mets absolutely live in the heads of a lot of baseball fans!
I like the move. The fact of the matter is that the Mets just got better at the DH position, which has been their biggest weakness this year.
Holderman has some nice potential. Good get for the Pirates. He’ll get more of a chance to pitch there as his innings have been small and in low leverage situations with the Mets.
This also doesn’t preclude the Mets from making more moves – and they will.
A Pirate fan laughing at a first place team. Ok.
I mean it is pretty funny. You trade for 1b/DH while in preseason your cup runneth over with those type of dudes.
This opens the door for them to trade Dom for pitching. It’s a good move
Yeah, perfect time to trade Dom (near peak value) and replace him with a guy you will buy out at year end for 1/4 Dom’s salary.
But if the Mets bolstered Oline brings a trophy then who am into argue?
If it doesn’t then I’m the perfect person to argue.
This I don’t get. What door? Why couldn’t they just trade Dom before? They don’t need Vogelbach for that. They could’ve traded Dom and just used Davis, or heck, even Guillorme. Certainly didn’t need to replace a 0 WAR Smith preemptively.
Nobody is giving any decent pitchers for Dom.
Right? Mets are getting rid of him because he can’t hit. There are a lot of players with better defensive skills available who also can’t hit. Trade him to TB for whatever pitcher the Rays will give you, and I guarantee Smith will turn to solid gold for them. All they do down there is turn sows’ ears into silk purses.
Ah yes, the Mets fans still trying to tell everyone how Dom is a trade chip. I’m sure the Mets will flip him for Montas in another 1 for 1 deal
Huh? What in the world is a s0ws ear?
That’s a pretty narrow view of this trade seeing as It was made for offensive reasons, not defensive reasons.
Great transaction, use 270 lbs to block home plate?
Can’t score if you pancake them right when they leave the box!
I’d love Buck to take one look at this guy, and say ‘Son, youre a sloppy mess. Lose 25lbs and i’ll pencil you in the lineup’
What boggles my mind is the dude is 6’. Like 2 inches shorter and 90lbs heavier than me.
He must be a freak athlete. Imagine a svelte, 185lb vogey? The dude would probably be a fleet-footed, 3-4 tool CF.
According to Mark Gubicza he has an amazing unit. So there is that.
Well, that’s…a thing.
Weird, a 60 year old former player/current analyst is the person to bring that up. Is he peepin’ dongs while waiting for interviews? This dude is rating flaccid dongs as they come out the shower, and has an “amazing” classification. That means he probably has lower ratings for dongs, possibly “okay”, “passable”, “good”, “somewhat agree”.
Why are people not filing police reports for this pervert??
Remember back when he was a middling prospect for the Cubs? He is one of the few players I was lucky enough to see play high school ball. He had a great hit tool and plenty of power. He was the type of hitter that the shift would not work on. Unfortunately, he loves food more than a shot at a big contract. If a team were to put him under the same strict regime the Giants used on Sandoval he could become a special player. At 29 years old his window is closing and it’s sad to see him not taking advantage of it. He has a very smooth, sweet swing when he is in better shape. Every time he dropped 50lbs in the minors his OPS topped or came very close to 1.000. When it returned he was lucky to break .800. Team after team gives him a chance but when their catering bill triples they seem to move on quickly. If he played any other position teams would make a better effort at getting his weight under control. The true 3 outcome player he has become is fairly common at DH. I hope he figures it out because it would be great to see him spraying line drives to every corner of the field again, providing clutch hits when his team needs it most.
The Pirates forgot where first place is. Hey is it football season yet?
As i recall, the Mets can’t seem to beat the Pirates. In fact, the lowly Bucs derailed the Mets whole season last year
I guess when you’re a Bucs fan, you gotta take your (teeny) victories where you can.
Well wrong because no real Met fan felt last year was derailed. We got 100% better. From Owner, front office, Players. It’s called building a winning team. But when your team trades 2 Cy Youngs in the last 6 years and get nothing back, your whole fan life has been a derailment. But your ball park is only of the top 25 in MLB. Goooo bucs
Mets fans disparaging pirates fans while you’re in first place is pretty hilarious.
Every NL central team tunes this out and treats it as banter. I also assume most fans do as well. But, Mets fans taking it to heart and pulling up a “works cited” is pretty much a self-own.
Act like you’ve won before.
Oh don’t be so bitter, Beans. Jesus is watching…
I actually like the Pirates. I just think the whole lol Mets thing is asinine and childish and the obsession some fans have with this team is odd and telling.
Mets fans should hush up because they all know how this season will end. Not raising a flag! Mets be Metting. Sit back and watch.
The Mets yearly free fall is coming soon. Will be out of first by the deadline.
Aahhh, predictions without reasoning… the bread and butter of morons
terrible trade by the mets. what is eppler thinking?
Such a letdown
Wow, break the internet…
Another bum
The stove just got set to ‘low’.
That’s okay. It’s a trade.
Right so another smith/davis nice one
agreed. SUCH A DUMB freaking move!!!
He is similar but he has 12 homeruns which is alot better than the other two
Welcome to Houston Mr Bell.
I liked Holderman. Cheap quality arm out of the pen who has pitched well this season.
Traded a key piece of our already weak bullpen for Vogelbach? Good grief, this makes absolutely no sense.
Going for Fulmer AND Chafin from the Tigers.
Sure, idiot
with 15 games of relief hes not necessarily a key member, though definitely agree that pirates got good value for a year and a half of a righty killer
Key piece???
AGREED!!!
Yeah I’m not thrilled with letting Holderman go. Looked like a really solid piece for the pen. Only makes sense if they can turn around and land a few reliable arms in these next two weeks to bridge to Diaz
I don’t really like the deal, but calling Holderman a ‘key piece’ of the bullpen is absurd. He’s thrown 17 innings of almost exclusively medium- to low-leverage ball. I agree that they shouldn’t be trading MLB-ready relievers to acquire someone like Vogelbach, but don’t overstate Holderman’s role.
Dom Smith leaving next?
I think if anyone else wanted Dom, he’d be gone already.
Eppler is a complete moron,’this makes absolutely no sense.”
Trade a good reliever from a bad bullpen for an overweight player who will probably die of a heart attack while running to first base!
Wait until he has to bat against real teams and real pitchers instead of that crappy division; mark my words they are going to make him look stupid. He wont even get the bat off his shoulders before he heads back to the dugout.
Man. People love to fat shame on here. I’m sure everyone posting is in tip top shape, and not spilling Cheetos all over themselves as they type.
Hey,he’s in good shape.Round is a shape right?
He’s pleasantly plump.
@VonPurpleHayes
It’s not fat shaming when your job and profession is to be an athlete.
If you have so little respect or control for your self and your employer and go out on the field totally out of shape then the only shame is on him not me!
And yes I am in good shape and have a desk job.
Lmao… a key member…..lmao
HAHAHA this is such a Mets move!
Seriously, your offense has been below league average against left handed pitching, So what do you do? Go cheap and get big Dan Vogelbach who cannot hit lefties to save his life.
Bad move I guess the Pirates didn’t want Smith or Lugo
Does Danny still walk away from the plate after watching 3 strikes with the lost look? He was supposed to have great awareness of the strike zone I can’t believe how many times he walked away just lost. So glad he is gone.
Wow you know alot about baseball. So getting a lefty with 12 HRs to replace a lefty with 0 HRs, for $400k, and doesn’t prevent them from making an other trade is a bad thing. Even if Don just gets sent down it a win. We gave up a guy who the Mets felt walked too many guys.
You are so right I am sorry I said anything bad about the Mets getting him. Wait I just asked a question about how lost he looked many times. That really shows my lack of BN knowledge. Thanks genius.
Big Dan, in demand!
Not sure how this is an upgrade from what they already had. Certainly doesn’t move the needle much. And gave a decent arm in return.
Look at Smith’s numbers. This is an improvement.
How? Lost a guy in the bullpen with a 2.07 era and the bullpen is the weakness of the team.
The Mets DH spot has preformed far worse than the Mets bullpen. I would say DH is their significant weakness. This addresses that.
*Performed
Heh, I thought you meant “perfumed”.
I’m sure their bullpen smells just fine. Hah.
Have to agree with Von here on it being an upgrade. Mets DH have a combined .662 OPS. Pete has a .816 OPS in 90 PAs, but Davis has .733 in 152 PA, Smith has .625 in 59 PA, Escobar has a .602 in 21 PA, and a handful of others have put up like a .250 OPS in 48 PA. Still not a huge fan of the move, but it’s an upgrade.
Davis overall is a .670 OPS, Vogelbach is .769.
Stats here:
https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/team_compare.cgi?request=1&year=2022&lg=MLB&stat=OPS
Volgelbach is basically a replacement level player. Is their nobody in their system who could match that? Dealt from a position of weakness (BP) for a meh return. Mets must be in talks with other teams about acquiring some relievers. Otherwise, not a great move.
I think the idea is that he could get hot. Capture lightning or something. That seems to be a new approach. Trendy, but remains to be seen if it’s smart.
He isn’t replacement level vs rhp and that is when the mets will use them. Pirates don’t have enough hitters so he was used vs lhp too much.
Vogelbach has slashed .260/.365/.532/.896 against RHP this season, which is when he’s going to be used. He’s ‘replacement level’ because he’s a DH and has been forced to hit against LHP for the Pirates.
Mets could also use some HR power in their lineup, as they are 17th in HR with 92 on the season.
You get Donny and his 3/4 beer league softball swing. Not sure he can get around more than that.
They aren’t limited to one move. Every trade doesn’t have to work by itself. It just needs to work in combination with the other moves yet to come.
Exactly but a lot of fans like to react to every move as it it’s made in a vacuum.
Yea exactly. In fact, I think this trade was made specifically to open the door for further trades. Smith and or Davis can be moved in a bigger trade for example.
Problem is, what do they get for either right now. Maaaaybe a piece to slightly replenish the lower minors.
Yea. Point. Perhaps they can be packaged to sweeten a deal, but their value is low.
@vonpurple
Yes, until acquiring Vogelbach, there was no way the Mets could afford to trade either of those two. Uh, not exactly.
Holderman was actually looking pretty decent
Pirates love their 6’6”+ pitchers.
Probably stretch him out and turn him into a future starter for the Yankees.
As long as the Yankees send another Roansy Contreras in return…
One of the only good pieces in a bad bullpen. Makes sense.
I like Vogy, but he’s not going to look good in a Mets uniform…
What uniforms does he look good in?
Lolmets
Thanks for the insight
Don’t be bitter Cosmo.
My team is in first place and getting better! Nothing to be bitter about at all! I just don’t suffer idiocy very well.
How many more Hours will the Mets remain in First Place?
Objects in the Rear View Mirror are Closer than they Appear. LOL
At least 33… they’re 1.5 games up, so it’ll take 2 games.
I get chest pains watching Vogelbach run the bases even when he hits a home run.
He actually did hurt himself running the bases when he was with the Crew. Pulled his hammie something fierce rounding 3rd. Other team was wincing too and let the dude score! But he’s fun to watch and hope he has a good showing. Been a Brewer killer this year on the Pirates so far this year.
I enjoy watching big people run.
Pretty sure you have a heart problem.
I actually dig this move for the Mets. Vogelback provides some power to the bench/DH spot. A significant improvement over Smith.
You spelled his name wrong. And not sure about that later part you egg head
You spelled egghead wrong
Spelled “latter” wrong too………….
I spell everything wrong. Half of the blame goes to the giant ads blocking the comment box on the app. The other half goes to my stupidity. Smith’s numbers have been horrific. Vogelbach will provide some pop and he’ll look better in the lineup. Mets fans seem to like Holderman, but really I don’t see this as a bad move. I think a lot of people are overeacting.
Have you actually looked at Dom Smiths numbers? Are you aware he hasn’t hit a HR in over a year? Great DH material, huh?
Good move for the Pirates.
Good deal for Pirates. Will miss Vogey, but the return is positive
. Good Luck, Vogey.
I HATE this trade! The dude don’t freaking hit!!! Why couldn’t we push harder for someone like Mancini or even possibly Bell… HECK, even a reunion with Drury or India (Reds) or an opportunity with Reynolds (Pittsburgh), Happ (Cubs). Even an over-the-top opportunity maybe to get Marte (D-Backs). This guy doesn’t hit, career avg 213! His projections suck! So, we get another POSSIBLE HOMERUN HITTER… TECHNICALLY WHAT WE ALREADY HAVE with Smith and Davis. How the heck is this BETTER!!!
AND WE LOSE A PITCHER WE DESPERATELY NEEDED!!!
I really don’t think the Reds are trading India.
Might as well have gotten Joey Gallo for a Klondike bar and keep the BP arm
India? They need someone who will help them now, not someone playing below replacement level.
Almost 900 ops in a pitcher friendly park. If that isn’t up to your standards of hitting then trade for Soto.
India? He’s a .636 overall so if he has a .900 at home that looks pretty fluky. Or do you mean Vogelbach?
You should see someone if a baseball trade upsets you this much
Are you upset?
The best news your team can have is Donny was traded. Yes I know it is Danny but I got in trouble for calling him Fat Danny so Donny just felt right.
Only way this makes sense is if they have more trades coming for a guy who hits lefty’s good and bullpen pieces. Otherwise, this trade makes zero sense. Hodlerman also has years of control and looked good so far.
Vogelbach mashes RHP, above league average, but that’s all he brings.
This has got to be one of the stupidest trades ever. A non hitting obese fat guy for a young quality bullpen arm. I guess this is why the Angels sucked under this gem.
12 hr in the Pirates lineup. Essentially replacing Dom Smith’s 0 hr in a much deeper Mets lineup. I see this as an upgrade.
12 homers and nearly nothing else though. Base clogger. Has less doubles than homers. This is a bad move.
.338 OBP. He’s no game changer but probably a better roll of the dice than what they have already.
Exactly and let’s not act like the Mets really need anything. They’ve been one of the best teams in baseball. Slight upgrades are all they need.
“Base clogger”? Joe Morgan, is that you hiding behind the name bryan c?
Wait until Marte or Nimmo hit a gapper and this dude is on first.
Dom Smith wasn’t exactly Steve Prefontaine out there.
Well since he wasn’t on base too much this season, he didn’t have much opportunity to show off his jack rabbit speed
Oh loveable rubbery vogelboy!
Finally a smart trade by this franchise. Holderman was pitching way above his head, hes not that good and the Mets sold high. Vogelbach basically means that Dom Smith is gone by the deadline. I would trade him for a real reliever. Vogelbach is controlled past this year and he mashes righties
Seems curious to me everyone trashing smith after about 130 ab still a young kid top 100 prospect too.
Dom Smith hasn’t done anything in his career other than a really good 60 game run. The shift has actually killed his game. In 2020, he was hitting to all fields and essentially beating the shift. Now he just pulls every pitch. He doesnt have enough power to hit homeruns anymore. Every at bat he looks lost up there and blames the umpire for striking out. Once in a while he will have a 4 hit game and then go 0-20, then proceed to have another 4 hit game. I think he needs a change of scenery
Vogelbach is controlled past this year and he mashes potatoes.
Only winners in this is the fast food restaurants and cardiologists in NY.
Horrible Eppler move; the guy who gave us Lowly Rodriguez.
I live out in Angel Honk land and they can tell you how bad Eppler is; they are still living his damage
He will be batting .152 against real teams; Braves are laughing their asses off.
As a Pirates fan I love this move. Pirates need a bullpen arm more than a lefty DH. Plus Holderman appears to be better at his job than Vogie is at his.
WOW! What a beginning to the “frenzy”? If the rest of the “frenzy” looks like this…I’m taking a nap.
Set your alarm for this time next week, Rip.
Why are you quoting yourself? What frenzy?
Cosmo2. In a previous article, this website dropped the green flag on the trading season by writing “With the annual amateur draft and All-Star Game now in the rearview mirror, what figures to be a frenzied and condensed summer trade market will be up and running.”
This is the first trade of that “frenzy”. Not very awe inspiring.
Ok I got ya. But media always has to overhype stuff.
And to think, there was a rumor the Mets would push possibly, POSSIBLY, for Abreu of the White Sox. NOW THATS A TRADE!
Imagine what they were asking for and they can still add because they didn’t give up any top 15 prospects.
I get Dan Vogelback and Luke Voit confused all the time.
Deal gives Holderman a great opp as a potential valuable arm in PIT pen, but he’s gotta be upset to miss out on a potential playoff run with NYM. With regards to the swap, don’t like it. Don’t feel Vogel moves the needle much on offense and Mets make their own pen thinner by moving a young & controllable arm that was pitching well.
Bye Bye Dom Smith LOL
The Mets could’ve sign Vogey this spring and dealt Smith for a reliever before this season tanked his value. This seems like a great move by Cherington, cost the pirates little money and they flipped him for a young arm with years of control left
Glad to know that Mr Hindsight is available for comment.
Yeah that’s how the comment section works. Welcome to internet.
Even the Pirates aren’t hurting over a million.
This is a great move. I like Holderman, but I’m sure more relief acquisitions are on the way. Vogelbach is a fantastic hitter against righties. He can’t field or hit lefties for his life, but he’s just an option to have for pinch hitting and DHing. Great, low cost move.
That is one chunky monkey
His pre-workout is a 24 oz Yeungling and a polish sausage with everything.
LMAO The Mets actually just got worse with this deal. Vogelbach is a lifetime .213 BA who has been a journeyman while Holderman actually looked like he has a live arm and was effective RP.
Dumb Mets not checking out his lifetime BA. Lol Idiots probably looked at more recent fancy stats and went off of those.
Yes the Mets FO are idiots here. Vogelbach is a one trick pony. Can’t play defense, run bases, or hit LHP. He is a platoon DH at best and is all or nothing. Holderman is a legit Power Arm with good control who can be a backend RP. Makes no sense.
Wow. Im absolutely shocked. As a Mets fan my assessment of Eppler just went from 100 to 0 in an instant
Holderman was a critical bullpen piece with 6 years of control left. Outside of Diaz he’s been the best arm in the pen
They traded exactly what they need, young bullpen pitching, for Daniel Vogelbach
This makes absolutely no sense. The Mets are absolutely doomed with Eppler as GM. This shows a complete and total lack of understanding of baseball on his part
And as I write this Todd Zeile is on SNY trashing the trade also, making the same points I’m making
One of the worst trades I’ve ever seen as a Mets fan. I don’t think I’ve ever been more enraged about a trade in my life as this one
Todd Zeile is referencing RBIs in his assessment. Dude doesn’t know modern day baseball.
Well, that takes the cake. Biggest over-reaction of all time to a trade involving Dan Vogelbach. Todd Zeile? Sheesh!
Eppler weak point does not know how to evaluate pitching
Do you people look at any stats before you post? Holderman has pitched a grand total of 17 innings this season and almost none of it has been in a high leverage situation. Yet you have him as a ‘critical bullpen piece’ and everyone clicks the thumbs up. Crazy.
@RCT lmao stats. I’ve watched every appearance that he’s pitched. No need to look at stats, son
He throws 96, nasty slider, strong fastball explodes late, good command, good perceived velo,, hits his spots perfectly most of the time. On top of that and most importantly, he’s a good “makeup” guy. Gets out of jams. Gets the K when you need it. Eppler just casually tossed that away to get something that they don’t even need
You’re another one of the hordes that has no idea what’s going on but thinks he does…lmao stats…nobody who knows how to evaluate anything bothers to look at stats ever
“No need to look at stats, son”
Well, you’ve told me everything I need to know about you. Sorry, but I will trust the stats over the ‘eye test’ of some random internet commenter. Especially one who thinks a guy who has thrown 17 innings in his entire MLB career is somehow a ‘critical bullpen piece’. MLB history is littered with guys who’ve thrown 17 solid innings and then never amounted to anything special.
By the way, I’ve watched every inning he’s pitched, too. But I’m not dumb enough to let that obstruct my thinking and get hysterical over 17 innings, “son”. 17 innings in his entire career and you’ve got him as a ‘critical bullpen piece’. Is this your first season watching baseball?
@rct lmao so you admit stats are a better evaluation than actually watching the player
Like most, even Eppler, you don’t have much idea what’s going on
Former GM Steve Phillips once said on ESPN he’d trade prospect Stephen Strasburg for Roy Oswalt. There’s many GMs that haven’t a clue what’s happening either
Trading Holderman for Vogelbach shows a complete and total ignorance about how to build a roster
Even if Holderman loses it and is out of the league next season it’s still a bad idea
” lmao so you admit stats are a better evaluation than actually watching the player”
Never said anything close to that, buddy. You said, ‘no need to look at stats’, and I’m saying that’s dumb. You use both tools. You watch him pitch and you look at the stats.
Dude has pitched 17.2 innings in the Majors in his career and only 32 (!!!!!) innings above AA-ball and you’re hysterically calling him a ‘critical bullpen piece’ because you’ve ‘watched him play’.
Get a grip, because you’re losing it. I question how long you’ve been following baseball.
I mean stats ARE better for evaluating a player than watching games on tv. Unless you are an actual experienced scout watching the games in person and taking notes, stats are the best tool to use. A layperson watching the games on TV is called the eye test and it’s not that useful, quite deceptive actually.
He has been a critical piece in a bullpen that has been spotty for the past few weeks. But yeah, he’s unproven for the long haul. This is one of those trades that we won’t know who the winner is for quite some time. Vogelbach could wind up hitting better with a better lineup around him. Holderman could wind up being a poor bullpen piece in the majors once he gets more use.
@bill They could be dumping damaging goods. He just got off the IL. Maybe they know something about his shoulder or arm
That’s the only reason it makes sense
Keith Hernandez just commented on it on the SNY telecast
“I was surprised”, “good command”, “good composure on the mound”, “good fastball”
I like Keith but his player evaluation skills boil down to: Mets player in front of me, must say something good. I once listened to him talk up Darrel Ciciliani for five minutes.
The Mets announcers are so good that people tend to take their word as gospel. That’s a mistake for reasons like mentioned above.
@Camden453 totally agree; worst trade in all Mets history.
Horrible Eppler move; the guy who gave us Lowly Rodriguez.
I live out in Angel Honk land and they can tell you how bad Eppler is; they are still living his damage
He will be batting .152 against real teams; Braves are laughing their asses off.
Gotta give to get. NYM far from done. Has to viewed in context on Aug 2
This is why I love trading season. I get to see some select Mets fans have complete meltdowns before the guy even puts on the uniform. It happens almost every time they make a trade too. I love you Mets fans.
True. I’d say the Met fan base is about 60% hysterical reactionaries. Unfortunately.
LOL right? They’re a legit championship contender but a pretty insignificant bench/platoon trade has them ready to hit the panic button.
You love it because you’re a troll hiflew. You constantly argue and comment all the time here.
At least I am memorable, I have no clue who you are. Oh well, enjoy my arguing.
This. People saying Vogelbach can’t hit but his numbers vs RHP is better than most of our lineup.
@hiflew maybe because we know he is to fat to put on a uniform.
I know Vogelbach isn’t a game changer, but dang am I going to miss him. He was just fun to watch. At least the return looks decent.
I like the move, but am surprised the Mets gave up a useful bullpen arm. Would think it’d be better for both sides if a prospect or two went to Pittsburgh.
Pittsburgh must have really liked this reliever and maybe Mets are saving prospects for bigger trades.
Sounds like the Pirates were stuck on Holderman. May try using him as a starter based on the little bit I’ve seen.
Come get Robertson from my cubs, New York.
Garbage move. Weaken a middling pen already for a guy that hits 50 points below his weight. Better be brighter days ahead before 8/2
Looking at the guy I’m thinking 50 points below his weight mightn’t be so bad.
Lol. He is “listed” at 270
Maybe Vogelbach gets flipped. One can only hope.
To whom and for what? Even if they package him with Smith you’re still only getting an iffy return.
He’s a pretty big guy. Not easy to flip.
If he flips over, he’s gonna need a lot of help getting back up.
now DFA Dom Smith
Ummmm no.
Two things this thread proves: Met fans like to panic over nothing and the Mets absolutely live in the heads of a lot of baseball fans.
Agree. I just didn’t think trading anything for this guy was worth it. He is really just a DH on a bad team or a pinch hitter on a good one. I would have preferred avoiding this trade and just brought up Vientos after all the moves were done. Now if some team liked him and they can flip him, fine but preferred a 3.86 ERA in the pen over a .228 bat on the bench.
Losing Holderman no big deal we didn’t need him
The Mets do not matter in their own city, let alone matter to anyone else in the country.
People only read these messages and posts because quite literally we have nothing better going on at this exact moment (speaks volumes about how much time I waste).
The sheer number of posts that simply read “lol Mets” would say otherwise. Few teams generate such obsession.
890 something ops will play vs rhp on any team.
Pointing out that your team just made a bad trade is not panicking
I mean, you’re one of the reasonable ones, and your point is legit, but have you seen some of the hyperbole on these boards?
Yes, no doubt. There certainly is a fair amount of that, especially recently
Vogelbach’s swing and physique are modeled after John Goodman’s in the 1992 movie, ‘The Babe’.
Vogelbach looks exactly like Chief Wiggum from the Simpsons.
He’s got a cheap option for next year and if they do away with the shift he could be a monster against RHP.
The bad news is he hit much better in PNC park then on the road, but did have just as much, if not more pop.
Right now he’s the Mets best option at DH vs RHP, but I’m thinking the from office will make a bigger splash between now and the deadline.
Ok, someone else announce a minor trade. This one’s been analyzed, debated, and scrutinized for all it’s worth. Moving on.
Nah, piling on the lolMets never gets old
Win for both teams.
A for Pirates. They can use dh spot to get more prospects abs. A promising looking mlb reliever with full team control. I don’t see how they could have done much better.
C for Mets. They couldn’t find any prospects? Maybe they don’t think this kid can sustain his success. Either way they added a much needed bat now instead of waiting last minute. Extra week could be meaningful.
Is he able to wear Big Bart’s #, or would that confuse too many people.
As a Pirates fan, I view it as a red flag when the first adjective used to describe a player is “controllable.”
Vogelbach gone. Now Gamel, marisnick, van meter, Newman and a couple more. Then bring up the kids.
Pirates have Reynolds and Bednar who could go
Burly? More like fat.
How about “big-boned”?
I don’t love the trade, but you can’t evaluate until 8/2. The guy is over .800 OPS against RHP. That’s certainly decent DH production, and much better than they have gotten this season. If they aquire two late inning relievers and a 3B or outfield bat this move works as part of a bigger picture.
Imagine what they were asking for to get abreau, and they can still add because they didn’t give up any top 15 prospects.
While Vogelbach is obese, it’s a better pickup than the disruptive influence Josh Bell would have been.
Sorry, man, but that comment has an aroma of sour grapes. A 159 OPS+ beats a 117 OPS+ by enough that you could welcome Bell into the fold and trust Buck to keep things on an even keel.
Bell’s a great guy. Pirates thought so, Nats think so.
Nottingham pretty much just comes here to talk stupid crap about how much they hate players. They’re all lazy bums etc. It’s pretty pathetic. Some of us actually want to have intelligent conversations about baseball, not trash other human beings from the comfortable anonymity of the internet.
So now a .213 career hitter is considered value?!
Batting average should never be looked at in a vacuum.
Because vacuums suck
Well played Bill.
Good trade for both
Both, except the Mets
Wow, what a Sandy Anderson / Wilpon style garbage move this is. I thought the Mets finally learned some lessons about athleticism and not flooding a roster with one-dimensional players. Someone please tell the Mets that moneyball was a philosophy developed to try and help poor teams win. The Mets should be aiming higher than this, not to mention you’ve now subtracted from your bullpen which is your biggest hindrance to winning a World Series right now. And no, anyone with eyes doesn’t think that Trevor May coming back is the answer. I hope I’m completely wrong and am openly mocked in this forum about how wrong I am about all of this.
I agree that the Mets, Padres and Yankees should be approaching this deadline full tilt. It’s shouldn’t be about “getting better” but putting the boot on the collective throats of the rest of the league.
It’s embarrassing for Anderson to say that the Mets will use their financial might at the trade deadline and then come up with Dan Vogelbach… not only that but to be so blind to the teams needs. Vogelbach doesn’t really help the Mets, the Mets offense is bad against south paws and he goes out and get a guy who cannot hit them?
Yeah I don’t really mind getting a DH only guy Since that is the Mets biggest offensive area of need, but I would hope it could be one that could hit against both lefties and righties, not a part time player with no positional versatility.
Horrendous trade for the Mets. Their primary need has long been the bullpen. Holderman has been one of two reliable arms in their pen and he’s young and controllable for a long time.
Vogelbach is an unathletic DH only with no speed who is marginally playable against rhp and unplayable vs lefties. He has slightly better than average power but he also strikes out more than average. He walks but, again, has zero speed on the base paths.
He’s better than Dom smith so far this season vs rhp, but smith has at least some track record that indicates that he could be better, and he is a good defender at 1b.
Billy Eppler got fleeced. Putrid deal.
I don’t understand how anyone can say they need bullpen more than DH production. Their DH spot is near the bottom of the league. This addresses that directly. They have a decent pen. Room to improve certainly, but it’s not an area of weakness in my view. They tradeda reliever who pitcher 17 solid innings of low-stress ball. It’s not like they lost Smith, Lugo or Diaz.
@Von As always, your takes are objective and accurate. The guy has a .817 lifetime OPS and almost .900 (15th in all of MLB) against RHP this year. Considering 65-70 percent of pitchers are RH, that’s pretty valuable.
Obviously it would have been nice to keep Holderman, but it’s 26 year old relievers who look good after 18 innings that are a “dime a dozen”.
Mets are out on Soto.
Grab a hefty left hand bat and stay clear of a hefty left hand contract.
I’m starting to think Nats are such a mess they are going to flip Soto to a team not in any big market.
Good job Mets. The NL East grip is loosening.
Pushing back arbitration. That’s what the Bucs do best.
What a blunder. You don’t trade a useful player in an area of weakness for a platoon DH, and a platoon DH who isn’t actually all that great.
Vogel’s useful to a Mets team that couldn’t figure out how to get production from the easiest spot in baseball, but not at the cost of a competent reliever. In fact the reverse of this trade, picking up that reliever for a platoon DH who’s a dime a dozen, who’s been barely better than replacement level for his career, is what you ought to be aiming for.
Who knew, that when Alderson and Eppler had to rely on their ‘skills’ to make a deal, it would be one this obviously foolish.
The guy has a .817 lifetime OPS and almost .900 (15th in all of MLB) this year against RHP. Considering 65-70 percent of pitchers are RH, that’s pretty valuable.
Obviously it would have been nice to keep Holderman, but it’s 26 year old relievers who look good after 18 innings that are a “dime a dozen”.
Care to comment on this opinion?
?
Not you, idk why the reply button has been replying to the wrong people.
There was a whole wave of negativity after this trade and holderman appears to have been just a flash in the pan, and traded at his max value.
Cool, that was my point.
The only people happy about this deal in NY are fast food restaurants and cardiologists.
Eppler is a complete moron and as a long time Mets fan I have to turn it off.
Look at his great deal to bring in Lowly Rodriguez and now trading a promising young redeliver with 6 years of control for a guy with a lifetime .213 batting average.
The only thing I can hope for as a Mets fan is he tires to run out of the box and pulls a hamstring and goes on the IL and I don’t have to watch him play!
Let him know that I will be happy to buy him as many Bareburgers’ as he can eat!