Why did the Cardinals placed on restricted list comments get closed so fast? I know there is a lot of crazy anti-Cardinal hate here or did it go straight to politics?
Some threads get left open (I’m pretty sure the Benentendi thread stayed open yesterday) and others don’t. Makes little sense. Let people vent. I don’t care if someone is anti-vax or not. I do care when discussion is shut down.
Hmmm, so I scrolled back to the Benintendi thread and they didn’t shut it down, but they certainly did remove a number of fan posts. That could be even worse. I wonder if it’s not a site-wide decision, but may depend on the MLBTR writer shift. In other words, who is working.
I understand they’re trying, but their approach here is a mistake.
Rob I think it’s a mistake to open the comments on COVID threads. The discussion always has nothing to do with baseball and goes straight into politics. If I remember correctly, MLBTR had a poll on opening the comments on COVID and the majority said to keep them closed but they opened them anyway.
Why are you making such a big deal Joe about something that has close to a 98% survivability rate? We aren’t allowed to talk about what you and other’s deem unnecessary or bad?
As I mentioned further down, it has nothing to do with baseball. Nobody is adding anything of substance to the comments. Just the same crap over and over. And again, it has nothing to do with baseball. I’m not interested in survivability percentages
or what someone thinks is bad. I care about baseball. Keep the comments of a baseball website about baseball.
I personally really want the cardinals and jays to make it to the World Series and see if Goldie and Arenado still refuse the vaccine when the title is on the line.
No way Beltran way 1st ballot. You can argue martyrdom because he was no longer a player when he was named, but that he was, IMO, is damning. No way 75% of voters overlook this.
DarkSide830, the Baseball HOF voters have already proven that they don’t care if players used PED’s. The only thing they care about, is if the player kissed their back side. They have already elected known PED’s users in on the first ballot.
The inconsistency is what bothers many fans. Piazza, Bagwell and Ivan Rodriquez were all known users, nobody questions if they used PEDs, but enough BBWAA members voted them in while at the same time getting on their collective soap boxe to argue against other, greater players. Then, Ortiz even failed a test but they found a way to excuse that too. This, btw, is not an argument against any of the players they’ve voted in; it’s an argument against BBWAA members and their constantly shifting opinions based on if they like a player or not. Heyman is the worst at it.
RobM the “known user” comment is what’s debated. Some lists were invalidated. Piazza for example consistently denies using abd the one report he was named on isn’t taken seriously.
Part of the problem with the Mitchell Report was that it had limited sources. If they could have gotten sources from every team, the list would have been much longer.
Major league baseball set the precedent for lack of consistency. They came down hard on Beltran, Cora, and Hinch while doing little more than wagging their finger at an entire franchise perpetuating the issue.
Beltran, Cora and Hinch were not protected by the players association which is why they were punished so harshly and no players were. The Astros as an organization got penalized pretty bad. Much worse than the cardinals, who committed a federal crime, were.
My biggest issue with that was punishing Beltran but not other players. I feel if Beltran was punished, all players should have been punished, even if it was just some fines or something.
This is why I think he takes a hit. Why did they mention him? Sure he was retired, but is the PA not protecting him sending a bad message to your players? Seems there was a distinction made between Beltran having simply used the system vs having been involved in it’s implementation. That to me is a real big no-no to me.
From tonight’s chat and thousands of comments from Yankee and Red Sox fans in chatrooms…..
I know most of you grew up with those 2 teams fighting over the top FA’s each year, often getting 2-3. There were the one-sided salary dump trades. They were directly caused by those two franchises running up player salaries causing teams that thought they could contend to give a player a multi-year contact. Then when the team didn’t contend resulting in attendance / TV viewership going down, they were in danger of losing big money if they kept the player and paid his salary. So they’d agree to one-sided trades. Taking on so-so prospects for their established players. Later if some of those prospects developed they threatened FA resulting in their teams knowing they couldn’t afford the big salaries so they traded them to the Yankees and Red Sox for more so-so prospects to develop for them.
Fans in small and even mid-markets got sick of being feeder teams to the Yankees and Red Sox, and their owners knew that something had to be done or their franchises wouldn’t be worth peanuts. Slowly the field was leveled some. Revenue Sharing. Pay slots in the draft (The Yankees and Red Sox were notorious for telling top prospects agents to tell teams that wanted to draft them that they wouldn’t sign with them. When the Yankees and Red Sox drafted them later they’d give the prospects the big bonus money later in the draft.) There’s more of course, starting with the penalties for going into a pseudo salary cap (Luxury Tax).
The point is that what went on for over 25-30 years since FA came into being is gone. Many raised Yankee and Red Sox fans don’t understand that your FO’s were not brilliant. They were swimming in revenue compared to other markets and devious. Those good old days are not coming back. It’s not just the partial leveling of the revenue. It’s literally every franchise in MLB understanding how to compete with less revenue than the Yankees and Red Sox. Now those 2 FO’s must compete within a structure. So the days of your trading so-so prospects for established star players are not coming back. Nor are the days of your signing 2-3 of the top FA’s each year. Your farm systems have to develop players. Your ML coaching staffs have to make those on the 26 man roster better. In short – the bullying is not coming back. You need to understand how the game is played.
P.S. It’s not the teams I “hate”. It’s that I get annoyed at people commenting here that don’t respect or understand either the game or the opposing franchises right to compete.
Even without the 2017 Astros connection, Beltran always struck me as a slower-burn HOF candidate, meaning he wasn’t going in first ballot. There will be some blow back to 2017 with BBWAA voting members, further suppressing his vote, but he’ll eventually make it. Voters will fill the need to punish him for a few years.
One does have to wonder if the seat under Bloom is getting a little warm. Swept at home by the Blue Jays (including possibly the most embarrassing game in team history), a terrible overall record against their own division and a 5-15 record so far in July that has seen them outscored 148 to 76. That cannot possibly sit well with Henry, Warner, and the rest of the Red Sox ownership.
Best wishes to Steve Jeltz. Played a little ball with him back in the day, but haven’t heard the name for some time – gifted college player and a very nice guy.
It’s a little dishonest to look at Merrifield’s numbers as a whole and say he’s under performing. He had a terrible first month of the season, Since May 1, he’s hitting .275/.325/.399 and since May 11, he’s batting .292/.346/.451 . Those numbers are in line with his career numbers.
Hypocrisy has taken over the management of this website. An article about players missing a game due to their medical history being revealed now has comments closed. All of this after the site did a grandstanding post a few months back about no longer wishing to close comments as often and having a desire to promote open discourse. They deleted many comments solely because the comments did not agree with a certain agenda. The website then has the gaul to send out surveys asking why more people are not willing to pay for content and subscribe to the website. Look in the mirror.
I agree with some of what you are saying but what sports value do those comments have? The comments immediately fall into poop slinging and we already have Facebook for that. This should be a place to get away from that. To use the popular comment whenever a sports figure speaks on politics “Stick to sports.”
Joe I certainly agree with you on that, but unless the website makes a blanket rule regarding all comments these random acts of virtue come off as rather disingenuous. Furthermore, unless something is blatantly vitriolic the decision to remove or not remove something seems to be at the whim of the pressure mob. I dislike any type of thought policing.
As I mentioned in my reply to Rob, I remember MLBTR taking a poll on opening the comments on these articles. I think I remember the poll showing the majority wanting to keep them closed but as we see they opened them anyway. I agree with you they shouldn’t pick a side on what comments to delete but I also think no good can come from opening them at all.
The problem is the comments veer off course and just become posters attacking eachother over political differences and who’s “right” and who’s “wrong”. Honestly player vaccination status inadvertently being revealed publicly due to players being put on the restricted list is a clear violation of hipaa laws that somehow pro sports leagues are getting away with.
Unfortunately it is nearly impossible to have a civilized conversation about a subject that is automatically divisive, nor is it civilized to have a thread for people to attack players for personal matters and does this website no good in trying to get more player interaction with the posters on this site if they are going to be attacked
I agree, except for the teams violating HIPAA laws. In this case, there is no way around vaccination status not being revealed. If players can’t cross into Canada, their spots need to be taken by minor leaguers, and that can only be done by putting them on the restricted list.
Even if the team decided to go to Canada with a short roster, it would still be obvious who was unvaccinated. HIPAA prevents releasing information, but if that information is deduced, by the team simply operating as usual, then that is not a violation.
Absolutely, particularly Shoeless Joe. He was illiterate and tried to give the money back. In addition, he batted something like .365 for the Series. Keeping him out of the HOF has been bs from the jump!
I would not have voted for Ortiz due to my questions about whether he did it or not, but he never actually failed a reliable test in his career and from what I heard recently he was also tested much more than anyone else in the league.
As a Yankees fan and someone who’s against PED guys getting in, Ortiz belongs in the HOF. His link to PED usage and the Mitchell Report is tenuous at best. There’s barely any smoke with him, much less any fire.
I do think it’s a confusing message to fans, as so much of this is based on speculation. I want Ortiz in, but by that same standard, Bonds should be in. I think my issue is with the voters. Their beliefs and opinions impact who gets in. There should be more standard metrics and rules to determine induction.
Timmy you forget Slamming Sammy and Palmeiro. I agree with bhambrave though if all known PED users are allowed in Shoeless Joe Jackson and Pete Rose belong in as well. Cheating is cheating in my book. I was a huge McGwire fan myself and took the bury my head in the sand approach with him. McGwire was a large guy to begin with and I thought he did it legit but it seems Canseco got him juicing early on… I also think Rose has paid enough already. There are people convicted of murder in this country and released way before the over 30 years of punishment Rose has already been doled out.
I agree, except for Rose. His crime is much more egregious. It’s one thing to cheat in an attempt to win. It’s another to bring questions to the integrity of the game itself.
The one thing to remember about Rose is this. He voluntarily accepted a lifetime ban in exchange for MLB not publicly releasing the findings of the investigation in to his gambling. Those finding were obviously very damning.
As soon as Bart Giamatti died and Fay Vincent took over as commissioner, Rose tried to get reinstated. Keep in mind also that Vincent, as well as Selig, and now Manfred, undoubtedly had access to the investigation report, have reviewed Rose’s request, and have chosen not to reinstate Rose.
Plus, as long as Rose and Shoeless Joe are banned by MLB, they cannot be inducted into the HoF, whether the writers want them in or not. No one banned by MLB is eligible.
Politics is allowed on all sites . If you believe everything a liberal says it stays if you disagree with their beliefs you get deleted . As liberals say love everyone and accept everyone no room for hate Excepts for if you disagree with them then they hate you and hope you die all the while asking you what would Jesus do?
Why did the Cardinals placed on restricted list comments get closed so fast? I know there is a lot of crazy anti-Cardinal hate here or did it go straight to politics?
You take it easy with all these simple questions.
Covid
Someone was wishing that certain players couldn’t have children because he disagrees with their beliefs about vaccines.
You know…
Some threads get left open (I’m pretty sure the Benentendi thread stayed open yesterday) and others don’t. Makes little sense. Let people vent. I don’t care if someone is anti-vax or not. I do care when discussion is shut down.
Hmmm, so I scrolled back to the Benintendi thread and they didn’t shut it down, but they certainly did remove a number of fan posts. That could be even worse. I wonder if it’s not a site-wide decision, but may depend on the MLBTR writer shift. In other words, who is working.
I understand they’re trying, but their approach here is a mistake.
Rob I think it’s a mistake to open the comments on COVID threads. The discussion always has nothing to do with baseball and goes straight into politics. If I remember correctly, MLBTR had a poll on opening the comments on COVID and the majority said to keep them closed but they opened them anyway.
Why are you making such a big deal Joe about something that has close to a 98% survivability rate? We aren’t allowed to talk about what you and other’s deem unnecessary or bad?
As I mentioned further down, it has nothing to do with baseball. Nobody is adding anything of substance to the comments. Just the same crap over and over. And again, it has nothing to do with baseball. I’m not interested in survivability percentages
or what someone thinks is bad. I care about baseball. Keep the comments of a baseball website about baseball.
I personally really want the cardinals and jays to make it to the World Series and see if Goldie and Arenado still refuse the vaccine when the title is on the line.
No way Beltran way 1st ballot. You can argue martyrdom because he was no longer a player when he was named, but that he was, IMO, is damning. No way 75% of voters overlook this.
The key question is: “is he nice to the media?” apparently that is a deciding factor into HOF voting.
DarkSide830, the Baseball HOF voters have already proven that they don’t care if players used PED’s. The only thing they care about, is if the player kissed their back side. They have already elected known PED’s users in on the first ballot.
The inconsistency is what bothers many fans. Piazza, Bagwell and Ivan Rodriquez were all known users, nobody questions if they used PEDs, but enough BBWAA members voted them in while at the same time getting on their collective soap boxe to argue against other, greater players. Then, Ortiz even failed a test but they found a way to excuse that too. This, btw, is not an argument against any of the players they’ve voted in; it’s an argument against BBWAA members and their constantly shifting opinions based on if they like a player or not. Heyman is the worst at it.
Rolen will be the only one voted in.
We’ve all seen being a jerk can cost one an election.
One jerk wins and the other jerk loses every time. Being a jerk has never cost anyone an election.
Heyman lacks integrity. He pushes whatever the agenda of the moment might be in a desperate ploy to remain relevant.
RobM the “known user” comment is what’s debated. Some lists were invalidated. Piazza for example consistently denies using abd the one report he was named on isn’t taken seriously.
I would argue being likable plays a huge role in whether someone gets elected.
Part of the problem with the Mitchell Report was that it had limited sources. If they could have gotten sources from every team, the list would have been much longer.
Major league baseball set the precedent for lack of consistency. They came down hard on Beltran, Cora, and Hinch while doing little more than wagging their finger at an entire franchise perpetuating the issue.
Beltran, Cora and Hinch were not protected by the players association which is why they were punished so harshly and no players were. The Astros as an organization got penalized pretty bad. Much worse than the cardinals, who committed a federal crime, were.
My biggest issue with that was punishing Beltran but not other players. I feel if Beltran was punished, all players should have been punished, even if it was just some fines or something.
How was Beltran punished though?
This is why I think he takes a hit. Why did they mention him? Sure he was retired, but is the PA not protecting him sending a bad message to your players? Seems there was a distinction made between Beltran having simply used the system vs having been involved in it’s implementation. That to me is a real big no-no to me.
By stats alone, Beltran deserves it, but because of the controversy, I agree he has no chance.
From tonight’s chat and thousands of comments from Yankee and Red Sox fans in chatrooms…..
I know most of you grew up with those 2 teams fighting over the top FA’s each year, often getting 2-3. There were the one-sided salary dump trades. They were directly caused by those two franchises running up player salaries causing teams that thought they could contend to give a player a multi-year contact. Then when the team didn’t contend resulting in attendance / TV viewership going down, they were in danger of losing big money if they kept the player and paid his salary. So they’d agree to one-sided trades. Taking on so-so prospects for their established players. Later if some of those prospects developed they threatened FA resulting in their teams knowing they couldn’t afford the big salaries so they traded them to the Yankees and Red Sox for more so-so prospects to develop for them.
Fans in small and even mid-markets got sick of being feeder teams to the Yankees and Red Sox, and their owners knew that something had to be done or their franchises wouldn’t be worth peanuts. Slowly the field was leveled some. Revenue Sharing. Pay slots in the draft (The Yankees and Red Sox were notorious for telling top prospects agents to tell teams that wanted to draft them that they wouldn’t sign with them. When the Yankees and Red Sox drafted them later they’d give the prospects the big bonus money later in the draft.) There’s more of course, starting with the penalties for going into a pseudo salary cap (Luxury Tax).
The point is that what went on for over 25-30 years since FA came into being is gone. Many raised Yankee and Red Sox fans don’t understand that your FO’s were not brilliant. They were swimming in revenue compared to other markets and devious. Those good old days are not coming back. It’s not just the partial leveling of the revenue. It’s literally every franchise in MLB understanding how to compete with less revenue than the Yankees and Red Sox. Now those 2 FO’s must compete within a structure. So the days of your trading so-so prospects for established star players are not coming back. Nor are the days of your signing 2-3 of the top FA’s each year. Your farm systems have to develop players. Your ML coaching staffs have to make those on the 26 man roster better. In short – the bullying is not coming back. You need to understand how the game is played.
P.S. It’s not the teams I “hate”. It’s that I get annoyed at people commenting here that don’t respect or understand either the game or the opposing franchises right to compete.
I wouldn’t say every team is learning to compete with less revenue. Though perhaps they just aren’t trying.
Even without the 2017 Astros connection, Beltran always struck me as a slower-burn HOF candidate, meaning he wasn’t going in first ballot. There will be some blow back to 2017 with BBWAA voting members, further suppressing his vote, but he’ll eventually make it. Voters will fill the need to punish him for a few years.
I must be remembering incorrectly. I thought the crazy thing about Trouts extension was that there wasn’t a trade blocker in it?
He doesn’t need it. Trout has 10-5 status. That’s an automatic no-trade clause.
He’s got 10 and 5 status (10 years in the league, 5 with 1 team), so he gets full no trade rights on that alone.
One does have to wonder if the seat under Bloom is getting a little warm. Swept at home by the Blue Jays (including possibly the most embarrassing game in team history), a terrible overall record against their own division and a 5-15 record so far in July that has seen them outscored 148 to 76. That cannot possibly sit well with Henry, Warner, and the rest of the Red Sox ownership.
Cora’s seat probably is. Bloom is doing exactly what ownership wants. I think he has at least one more year.
Best wishes to Steve Jeltz. Played a little ball with him back in the day, but haven’t heard the name for some time – gifted college player and a very nice guy.
It’s a little dishonest to look at Merrifield’s numbers as a whole and say he’s under performing. He had a terrible first month of the season, Since May 1, he’s hitting .275/.325/.399 and since May 11, he’s batting .292/.346/.451 . Those numbers are in line with his career numbers.
Hypocrisy has taken over the management of this website. An article about players missing a game due to their medical history being revealed now has comments closed. All of this after the site did a grandstanding post a few months back about no longer wishing to close comments as often and having a desire to promote open discourse. They deleted many comments solely because the comments did not agree with a certain agenda. The website then has the gaul to send out surveys asking why more people are not willing to pay for content and subscribe to the website. Look in the mirror.
I agree with some of what you are saying but what sports value do those comments have? The comments immediately fall into poop slinging and we already have Facebook for that. This should be a place to get away from that. To use the popular comment whenever a sports figure speaks on politics “Stick to sports.”
Joe I certainly agree with you on that, but unless the website makes a blanket rule regarding all comments these random acts of virtue come off as rather disingenuous. Furthermore, unless something is blatantly vitriolic the decision to remove or not remove something seems to be at the whim of the pressure mob. I dislike any type of thought policing.
As I mentioned in my reply to Rob, I remember MLBTR taking a poll on opening the comments on these articles. I think I remember the poll showing the majority wanting to keep them closed but as we see they opened them anyway. I agree with you they shouldn’t pick a side on what comments to delete but I also think no good can come from opening them at all.
The problem is the comments veer off course and just become posters attacking eachother over political differences and who’s “right” and who’s “wrong”. Honestly player vaccination status inadvertently being revealed publicly due to players being put on the restricted list is a clear violation of hipaa laws that somehow pro sports leagues are getting away with.
Unfortunately it is nearly impossible to have a civilized conversation about a subject that is automatically divisive, nor is it civilized to have a thread for people to attack players for personal matters and does this website no good in trying to get more player interaction with the posters on this site if they are going to be attacked
I agree, except for the teams violating HIPAA laws. In this case, there is no way around vaccination status not being revealed. If players can’t cross into Canada, their spots need to be taken by minor leaguers, and that can only be done by putting them on the restricted list.
Even if the team decided to go to Canada with a short roster, it would still be obvious who was unvaccinated. HIPAA prevents releasing information, but if that information is deduced, by the team simply operating as usual, then that is not a violation.
I think if you let Ortiz into the Hall of Fame. They should let ARod, McGwire, Clemens and Bonds in.
If you let those guys in, you should let Pete and Shoeless Joe in.
Absolutely, particularly Shoeless Joe. He was illiterate and tried to give the money back. In addition, he batted something like .365 for the Series. Keeping him out of the HOF has been bs from the jump!
Taking PEDs to become a better player (not an endorsement) is quite different than knowingly breaking MLB’s Rule 21.
I would not have voted for Ortiz due to my questions about whether he did it or not, but he never actually failed a reliable test in his career and from what I heard recently he was also tested much more than anyone else in the league.
As a Yankees fan and someone who’s against PED guys getting in, Ortiz belongs in the HOF. His link to PED usage and the Mitchell Report is tenuous at best. There’s barely any smoke with him, much less any fire.
I do think it’s a confusing message to fans, as so much of this is based on speculation. I want Ortiz in, but by that same standard, Bonds should be in. I think my issue is with the voters. Their beliefs and opinions impact who gets in. There should be more standard metrics and rules to determine induction.
Timmy you forget Slamming Sammy and Palmeiro. I agree with bhambrave though if all known PED users are allowed in Shoeless Joe Jackson and Pete Rose belong in as well. Cheating is cheating in my book. I was a huge McGwire fan myself and took the bury my head in the sand approach with him. McGwire was a large guy to begin with and I thought he did it legit but it seems Canseco got him juicing early on… I also think Rose has paid enough already. There are people convicted of murder in this country and released way before the over 30 years of punishment Rose has already been doled out.
I agree, except for Rose. His crime is much more egregious. It’s one thing to cheat in an attempt to win. It’s another to bring questions to the integrity of the game itself.
The one thing to remember about Rose is this. He voluntarily accepted a lifetime ban in exchange for MLB not publicly releasing the findings of the investigation in to his gambling. Those finding were obviously very damning.
As soon as Bart Giamatti died and Fay Vincent took over as commissioner, Rose tried to get reinstated. Keep in mind also that Vincent, as well as Selig, and now Manfred, undoubtedly had access to the investigation report, have reviewed Rose’s request, and have chosen not to reinstate Rose.
Plus, as long as Rose and Shoeless Joe are banned by MLB, they cannot be inducted into the HoF, whether the writers want them in or not. No one banned by MLB is eligible.
Politics is allowed on all sites . If you believe everything a liberal says it stays if you disagree with their beliefs you get deleted . As liberals say love everyone and accept everyone no room for hate Excepts for if you disagree with them then they hate you and hope you die all the while asking you what would Jesus do?
Aaaaaand this is exactly why politics aren’t allowed here.