The Brewers have announced to reporters, including Curt Hogg of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, a series of roster moves prior to today’s game. Righty Freddy Peralta has been reinstated from the 60-day injured list, while deadline acquisition Matt Bush has been added to the roster. Infielder Keston Hiura was also recalled. In corresponding moves, the club optioned righty Peter Strzelecki and designated righty Dinelson Lamet and catcher Pedro Severino for assignment.
Lamet getting cut from the roster comes as a surprise, since he was just acquired from the Padres a couple of days ago as part of the Josh Hader trade. Adam McCalvy of MLB.com relayed a quote from Brewers’ president of baseball operations David Stearns, attempting to explain. “Dinelson has a good arm and was included in the trade to help balance out the deal,” Stearns says. “As subsequent transactions played out, the roster fit became a little tougher. We are hopeful we will be able to keep him in our system.”
The reference to “subsequent transactions” seems to imply that the Brewers ended up making other trades that squeezed Lamet out of their plans. Lamet, and the other players in the Hader deal, were acquired on Monday, the day before the trade deadline. As the deadline played out yesterday, the club also added Bush and Trevor Rosenthal in separate deals. Perhaps the Brewers value those hurlers higher than they view Lamet, which led to Lamet losing his roster spot today.
Although Lamet technically has options remaining, Hogg points out that he recently surpassed five years of MLB service time. Players beyond that threshold cannot be optioned without their consent, meaning Lamet had to be DFA’d to be removed from the roster. That also means that, should Lamet clear waivers, he would have the right to refuse an outright assignment and elect free agency without forfeiting his salary, as all players beyond five years of MLB service can.
Frankly, it would be very surprising if Lamet cleared waivers, given his track record and modest salary. He was one of the best pitchers in baseball during the shortened 2020 season, logging a 2.09 ERA over 12 starts with a 34.8% strikeout rate and 7.5% walk rate. He has dealt with injury woes in subsequent seasons, being relegated to bullpen duty and occasionally getting optioned to the minors. Still, he’s making a modest $4.775MM salary this year and can be retained for another season via arbitration. Due to his injuries, underperformance and time spent in the minors, he likely wouldn’t earn a huge raise for 2023.
Now that the trade deadline has come and gone, it complicates Lamet’s status. For one thing, the Brewers won’t be able to work out a deal to send Lamet elsewhere, as they would have been able to do prior to the deadline. For another thing, for clubs that are looking for bullpen upgrades from outside their organization, waiver claims are now effectively the only way to do so. It seems highly likely that some club will give Lamet a shot, either a contender looking for a boost down the stretch or a rebuilding team that will give him some time to regain his previous form and perhaps trade him in the offseason or next year.
Beyond Lamet’s status, this will immediately change the calculus for evaluating the Hader trade. “The players we are receiving in this trade help ensure that the future of the Milwaukee Brewers remains bright while not compromising our desire and expectation to win today,” is how Stearns phrased the trade at the time. “This mix of present Major League talent and high-level prospects furthers our aim to get as many bites of the apple as possible and, ultimately, to bring a World Series to Milwaukee. Trading good players on good teams is difficult, and that is certainly the case with Josh. We also recognize that to give our organization the best chance for sustained competitiveness, to avoid the extended down periods that so many organizations experience, we must make decisions that are not easy.” Two of the four acquired players, Robert Gasser and Esteury Ruiz, have already been assigned to minor league clubs. Though they could be called up later in the year, this currently leaves Taylor Rogers as the lone player from the trade on the big league roster. While Rogers is certainly a fine player, few would argue that he’s been capable of pitching at the elite level of Hader.
As for Severino, he recently returned from an 80-game suspension after a positive PED test. That gave the Brewers a surplus of catchers, as Omar Narvaez and Victor Caratini were both playing well in Severino’s absence. It was reported in recent days that Narvaez was drawing trade interest, though nothing came together before the deadline. Instead, the club has merely decided to move on from Severino and stick with the Narvaez-Caratini tandem.
As for Peralta, he landed on the IL in May due to shoulder soreness and now returns after an absence of over two months. He had a tremendous breakout last year, pitching to a 2.81 ERA and 33.6% strikeout rate. This year, his performance dipped a bit, perhaps due to the shoulder issues. He had a 4.42 ERA and 30.3% strikeout rate, still high but not quite as dominant, before landing on the shelf. If his health issues are behind him and he can return to his 2021 form, he will help the Brewers form one of the most fearsome rotations in the sport, lining up next to Corbin Burnes, Brandon Woodruff, Eric Lauer and Aaron Ashby.
What lol lamet DFA why trade for him
I thought he was the one they over valued in that trade
Big whiffs, Esteury Ruiz was the big get for MIL
The big get? Hardly.
Ruiz is hard to judge. He produced decent power numbers in tge minors along with good plate discipline numbers but according to prospect guys his minor league statcast numbers were very bad and he played in a very hitter friendly environment.
This is a bit of a reason for concern, he also had very high launch angles in the minors which is good for a power hitter but will cause low BABIPs for fringe power guys.
In the worst case this ends as a guy who doesn’t hit for much power and also doesn’t use his contact rate ideally due to a lack of babip
Rogers was the big get. Without him the trade doesn’t happen. Ruiz was a throw in. His upside is a 4th OF/PR because of his speed.
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I think he can be optioned still. He was up and down for Padres so not sure why Brewers couldn’t assign him without exposure to waivers.
Maybe I’m wrong but if I am there would have been little reason to acquire him except to absorb the contract and this guy has shown some return to the 2020 Lamet recently so I’d say this is just a AAA assignment.
It’s right in the article. He has 5 years service time so he goes through waivers and can elect free agency instead of the minors.
Yeah and the article says ‘if’ elects FA he still gets his entire salary and doesn’t forfeit a penny. So the team picking him up now only pays the ‘prorated portion’ of the league minimum.
The stupidest move from any MLB team I’ve ever seen in a long long time.
Would a “less coming; more reading!” chant be appropriate in this circumstance?
For starters, I expressed “maybe I’m wrong);
Secondly, it isn’t like there had never been an error in one of these posts.
Thirdly, A quick check for service time didn’t show me anything at 5.0. He literally must have just crossed 5 because Baseball Reference has him at 4.130 (probably beginning of year) because the Padres had just a week or so ago sent him down to AAA. You know, we are just past the 62% mark on the season so I’m not sure how .62 and 4.130 adds up to 5.0 but, I don’t know.
If it is accurate and he is now over 5.0 then he is exposed to waivers.
Appreciate the consideration of your time
It’s like how batting averages don’t go up as much when you go 4/4 in August.
You have to determine how many games .62 is and add it to his total. The 4.13 is out of context because it represents multiple seasons.
It adds up. Trust us.
Why so sensitive?
Service time numbers aren’t shown as fraction but by the years and number of days. So at the start of the season, he had four years and 130 days (4.130). A player needs 172 days on the active roster/IL to accrue a year of service time so Lament would have needed 42 days this season to reach five years.
Hope that helps.
Zaidi here’s your chance to swoop in and pick up 2 DFAs: righty Dinelson Lamet and catcher Pedro Severino.
No chance he makes it past Pittsburgh imo
Too expensive for them.
I was here to make this exact statement. I see no way Cherington doesn’t make a claim. The Pirates need starting pitching for the rest of the season and next year til Burrows, Preister and Solomento are ready for their shots in the rotation.
People have actually heard of him. Not Farhan’s style.
Great pick up for Boston. They are short a couple of bullpen arms and Lamet (when healthy) is nasty. I hope he lasts long enough to get to Boston on the waiver claim.
DM:, you make a lot of sense!
If Dorothy likes it I’m in
Can’t see Lamet making it past both Washington and Cincinnati before any other team can claim him.
Certainly wont make it past texas in the AL
He almost certainly will not be claimed. Not because no one wants him, but because as the article points out he passed 5 years of service time and so if he passes through waivers he can choose free agency, and there’s no reason for him not to because Milwaukee will be paying his fully salary regardless. At that point any team can sign him for minimum salary. Why would they claim him and take on his actual salary when they can get him for free?
Hey seam. I would suggest that if somebody wants to guarantee they get Lamet, then they will claim him. ’22 pro rata isn’t too expensive IF somebody believes in him and they’d retain his rights for ’23 (Arb 3)
Aloha!
seam – if a team claims him they get him. If they wait until he hits free agency they have to hope he wants to play for them and not someone else..its more about having him for next year not this. Claiming team would, in effect, be paying more than minimum to guarantee he is theirs next year.
@seam – because there’s no guarantee you’ll get him for free – at that point he can opt to sign with anyone. The near-guarantee is in the claim.
If they think that he will chose another team and they really want him, would be a reason.
Interesting this happened, as the brewers how do you let part of your return for Josh Hader end up DFA? That’s a hard pill to swallow if you ask me regardless if they got other players in deals they liked better, this is the return for arguably one of the best relievers in baseball
It was a GM doing another GM a favor. Lamet was a toss in to be tossed out. He’ll get picked up. I wish him well.
Yeah, amazing how many times Stearns has done “a favor” for another GM. DS, please go to NY after this season.
I assume the Brewers tried to flip Dinelson Lamet before the deadline. He is as overhyped as any player in MLB. With his salary and health issues, there were no takers.
If he’s waived the Brewers pay his salary and he will be selected but I don’t think as soon as many will expect him to be.
@Taco: Wheelin’ and dealin’. The Hader trade was all about the shekels.
We got fleeced for Hader, can’t change my mind now.
Brewers front office not making it easy right now.
What. In. The. Foooq. Is. Going. On.
Hader has been awful. Pressure off of Rodgers pitching in the 8th now. Lauer and Urias worked out. If only the Crew had the TV cash that the big markets do, different story.
Hader looked great last night, 1-2-3 inning with a K. Four seamer was sizzling at 98. If he had recent issues, I suspect they were just a speedbump on the highway. Good luck gents, at least until we meet in the Postseason! Cheers
The Brewer nation already knows how good he is.. Thank you for reminding me of this.
Awful. He gave up one big inning. He gave up runs in only 5 appearances. You take that big inning away his era is under 2.
Word!!! And, I do believe that what was going on at home, had him a bit stressed…didn’t his wife have a complicated pregnancy? If so, I totally understand how he could have struggled on the mound…husband and father first, before ALL-STAR Closer!!! We LOVE him in SD!!!
If you take away that time I killed a guy, I’m a great person
One of the local SD reporters mentioned that he was tipping pitches in SF when he got rocked there and he had since fixed the issue.
You can’t erase it from his ERA, but if he’s not tipping anymore then he’s probably going to be back to his old self
He was dominating during the stuff with his wife.
He just had a couple bad outings. That’s all. Gave up a GS to a lefty. He’s been slightly less than the best reliever in baseball for a month.
It’s not like he’s been getting hit around all year, just 1/3 of an IP(though over 2 games).
Killing a guy, allowing a big inning same difference?
It’s like sueing the cigarette company cause the print on the surgeon generals warning was to small and you couldn’t read it and got cancer
That’s bull. He had three bad outings and the sense was in the SF series that he was tipping his signs.
He’s the most dominant closer of the past 5 years.
Stop it. He had 2 bad outings resulting in 9 ER in .1 IP.
He had an ERA of like 1.09 before that and his stuff hasn’t diminished at all.
“Hader has been awful,” sounds like something someone who hasn’t watched the Brewers would say.
Stop using lack of $$ as an excuse instead of arrogance, greed and incompetency for the Brewers’ history of mediocrity. Usually top half of MLB teams for home attendance along with a benefactor of revenue sharing.
Yep. Feel the pain
Wouldn’t mind if the Red Sox gave Lamet a chance. I could totally see the Rays picking him up and turning him into a monster though
Was all about the money…he’s making $4+ million.
Someone will offer them something for Lamet.
May be an ignorant question, but I thought they did away with post deadline DFA trades?
It’s not a trade anymore. If it works similar to the NBA, a team that claims him would assume the remainder of his contract. If he clears then refuses an assignment to choose free agency, the team that signs him would only have to pay the minimum with Milwaukee paying the rest.
Great, we get to pay his pay for being on our roaster for one day! What a value!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They did have s waiver trade deadline. Not sure if that changed with CBA
Or maybe not. I believe you can still trade minor leaguers not on the 40 man but he was on the MLB roster so he can’t be traded.
wesstl— Most likely he’ll pass through waivers due to his extensive injury history, but someone will bet on him again. Too much talent.
He’s not making that much. He won’t clear waivers.
Can’t see the A’s passing on a claim.
likely got the prospects they did because they took on the contract and essentially made the deal neutral $ wise this year allowing SD to go after Soto
Take your common sense elsewhere. This is the place for irrational discussions Sir
How dare you!
Reds could give him a try.
Could, but he’s not part of the “player pipeline.”
Na. He is older than 19. Too old for them.
How does this work w no August waivers? Can a team still trade for Lamet but he is ineligible for the postseason or is he stuck having to go to Nashville to collect his money? Lamet still makes a lot of sense for some teams to see what he has. I mean I am not going to say a guy stinks because of 12 bad innings.
No trades period. Someone could pick him up afterwards for the prorated league minimum and still have control for next year, which was going to be his last under arbitration.
Thanks. I just assumed he gets dfa, goes on waivers and nobody claims him because of his salary so brewers stick him in aaa.
His pro rated salary for the rest of this year is less than $2MM, which won’t stop most teams from putting in a claim. Just keep him on the 26 man if not on the IL, and he is a fair gamble for next year. Teams will have a better idea of his actual injury level.
His long history of injuries is what’s held him back.
As long as a player is on a team before August 31st, they’re eligible for the postseason. Lament or everyone’s favorite player, Robinson Cano, if picked up is eligible.
I assume no one will claim Lamet and he’ll end up in AAA off the 40 man.
Uh….no.
Padres, get Lamet back!!!
Wait what? Why trade for Lamet?
Salary offset.
Bottom line is the brewers don’t care about winning. All they care about is saying the phrase “hey we made it to the playoffs again”. They have zero drive and too cheap to put together a championship team. All they do is add around the edges and margins and play average baseball in a crappy division. We essentially gave Hader away for nothing. Hader could have stayed this season, acquired 2 bats at the deadline, and made a serious run.
This sucks
I’m a little frustrated too, 2208. But just think of some of the teams that have won the WS over the years. Just have to get hot at the right time. Baseball is random. It’s not basketball or football.
How is it random when you have to win a 7 game series? It’s not the NY Giants going on a run and winning the super bowl, that’s random. Anyone can win one game. You have to be better to win a 7 game series.
Soler, Peterson and Rosario all getting hot at one time is random. Check out some of the Cardinals WS wins over the years. Jeff Suppan getting “hot”is well beyond random in one of them. The Dodgers over the Mets and then the A’s in the WS. That was the pure definition of random and getting hot at the right time.
Agree
Giants three WS
Direct hit!
Wow this is unexpected.
Lament was a salary dump for SD. He must be out of options. That gas can wasn’t gonna be on the brewers roster, if so. I thought they would keep Severino at this point with rosters expanding in September. Catcher for next year. Hader was awful his last five games. Really should’ve blown the game Saturday. Got bailed out by a rookie.
Surprisingly he’s not out of options, he’s been down in the minors a lot this year. Must have been a 40 man issue not a 26.
Ahh I’m a little off. The article actually explains it, even though he had options his service time gives him the ability to reject an assignment.
Total lip service from Sterns to be saying they hope to keep him in the system. Even if he somehow cleared waivers he would just elect FA
Next thing you know they’ll designate Rogers and release Lamet and Ruiz.
Must be nice having all the money in the world to spend and winning all the time. Oh, wait, one WS win with all that cash dropped. And it was the 60 game Covid year.
It’s nice enough having management that actually knows what they are doing. Anything else is a bonus.
It is nice knowing the Brewers have good management. Making the postseason 4 straight years while spending less than half of the big market teams is impressive. Thanks for acknowledging that.
LouHoltz22: “I’m frustrated” at Brewers management for their deadline.
Also LouHoltz22: “the Brewers have good management.” It’s “impressive”
Keep to one story, bro
They already optioned Ruiz to Nashville.
cmon man
I’d take Severino for the next couple of years in a heartbeat.
He could replace the shell of Suzuki until O’Hoppe is ready.
Yes please. Suzuki is hitting what, .180?
It’s good the Brewers got Matt Bush, Trevor Rosenthal, & Taylor Rogers for the pen, but Dinelson Lamet seemed like the perfect candidate for a Brewers reclamation project. A Legacy of Failure will always make questionable decisions.
Maybe Lament was pissed he was gonna get sent down and they decided to waive him. Who knows. Bush has been really good. Rosenthal, worth a flier. He should be fresh, hasn’t pitched in two years.
Rays just have to be begging for Severino to reach them on waivers. They need to fix their catching situation.
Sell the team
Why did people make comments without even reading the article??
Only the first paragraph of the article was written by the time most of the people above posted the comments.
This happens fairly often, so a lot of times it looks like some of the early commenters on articles didn’t read the articles.
Why not include a bat in the Hader trade package if you had no plan to keep Lamet?
Unofficially, we probably would have included Myers instead of Lamet. To be fair, everyone in SD believes Lamet’s hose is broken until he gets surgery and MKE knew that. To be even more transparent, I’m definitely not a doctor so take the anecdote with a grain of salt.
Antidote?
an·ec·dote
/ˈanəkˌdōt/
(noun)
-an account regarded as unreliable or hearsay
Thanks for educating the uneducated!
Wouldn’t mind seeing Lamet as a depth piece in Lehigh Valley.
Be interesting to see if they can sneak him through waivers but odds are someone will claim him
If they “sneak” him thru waivers, he can refuse, and become a FA while still keeping his money. But sure, for the Brewers, he’ll stay.
Yankees. Need the depth since the prematurely ejected Monty
I don’t think he’ll last for the Yankees to select him. A .500 team will pick him up.
I don’t think he gets claimed. But he could get a min. MLB deal somewhere.
Risky. A non playoff team should claim him.
Jerry DiPoto is sitting around licking his chops hoping Lamet falls to him in the order. He loves picking up everyone else’s pieces.
If Nationals have first shot due to record, why not? They can add to Padre farmhand collection this week.
Why would MIL keep Rosenthal over Lamet?
My first thought is that Rosie is closer to full health and therefore able to help the club sooner. I could be way off and this simply became a 40 Man crunch after the Deadline flurry. I don’t know MKE’s 40 Man well enough to comment further.
Trade went from c minus to D. If two prospects are not starting for Brewers in 2 years looks like an f grade! I actually have bought tickets to 5 or 6 more games this year yet! Feel like I have been ripped off! All of my Seats are either Monday night or senior days.
Hang in there. There just wasn’t a team that was contending that was gonna give up a bat for Hader. Freddy is back. They have the bats that can get it done. Yelich isn’t hitting for power but he’s getting on. Just need clutch hits when it counts.
What power? Yeli playing better than 2021 for sure, getting on base, stealing bases…but he hasn’t hit for power since 2019.
I corrected my post and said he wasn’t hitting for power. My bad initially. I think the bullpen, minus Hader, is in better shape now than last week. Rosenthal is the wild card. Maybe he’ll get the sixth. Boxberger has been a little shaky.
I hope you are right!
At this point I trust in Stearns. 4 straight years in the postseason isn’t a fluke. Matt Bush should get the 7th. Boxberger will still be in the mix. Maybe Keston is slowly figuring it out. He was hitting well when they sent him down last time. He just doesn’t have a position to play. DH or pinch hitting.
Either you work under Stearns? Pass some this way whatever you are imbibing? Or do you also believe in unicorns, leprechauns, the Easter bunny & Santa Claus?
No way he clears waivers
With his salary and a meh season, he might.
If he clears waivers AND accepts an assignment, this is a genius move by Stearns.
If not, it’s a ‘why the puck did you trade for him to “even out the deal” only to dump him a day later?’ kinda thing.
But, it means Brent “eefus fastball” Suter and Jindal Gustave on the big club, so there’s that.
Yeah, that’s what is shocking here. There are a few guys in the bullpen currently that don’t have the natural ability in terms of raw arm speed and talent that Lamet is supposed to. Try to clear one of those guys through waivers and at least see what you’ve got in the new guy. Bit of a head scratcher here…
Their gm should be fired over this…. I mean what the heck. Why trade for him in the first place? He’s pretty good… no way the brewers will get to keep him. What a joke.
The Brewers got a closer in return with 28 saves, Rodgers. Who will pitch the 8th behind Williams. Less pressure. They also got two other prospects. The last two prospects they got in a trade from SD: Lauer and Urias. They won that one.
And they are kissing a legit arm away in the deal which makes that trade look rough. Roger “ain’t” that good … # of saves is an arbitrary stat as it’s only as good as the # of opportunities that show itself. And although 28 is good, his underlying metrics are meh. Hader, although having a down year, is one of (if not the best) closer in the game. Can devalue your return for him in any way
Ballballsavant gives the best snapshot of where he’s at this season. K%, BB%, Whiff% all still elite. An elevated ERA may be symptomatic of simple bad fortune or myriad other factors. He had a lousy July. Throw that out and it’s an impressive season.
How’s that working thus far?
My guess is he was just included in the trade as salary offset to facilitate the trade. Padres had CBT considerations. If he gets claimed, Milwaukee is off the hook. If not, they still got the players they wanted and have to pay his salary the rest of the way. That’s a risk they were willing to take.
Tigers should grab him. Need as many warm bodies as they can get with all the pitching injuries. Might as well grab one with some potential still in the tank.
The question is can he pitch NOW? I agree he is an inexpensive lottery ticket and seems like a better gamble than Derek Law breaking out.
Instead of trading for Leon, Twinkies could have had Severino for the price of a waiver claim.
swerverino can’t be used in post season due to his PED suspension tho… so there’s that…
Will that matter? The Twins will play the Yankees and be bounced in 3…again
Lamet will be claimed.
By taking the Lamet contract Stearns probably got more prospect wise, the Padres needed to dump salary in the worst way. If you look at it that way it’s a pretty genius move, Stearns improves his return and then lets someone claim Lamet and doesn’t have to pay his salary anyway..
What return tho? Everyone falls in love with the Padres farm, and none of them wind up doing $hit. Hader should have netted the Brewers more than 2 prospects on his own, let alone taking a salary dump.
It doesn’t matter if everyone falls in love with Padre farm, it only matters that league GMs and scouting staffs (ie experts) value the players that the Padres draft and develop in the farm. Because they do and have is how the Padres have succeeded.
That’s my point tho. What have the Padres produced that has these “experts” ranking these players so high? It’s just mind boggling to me that the Padres keep collecting some of baseball’s best talent for nickles on the dollar because “they have a good farm” when the players turn out to be garbage.
I get your point. But…
…it hasnt been that long (6-8 years?) that the Padres farm has been considered top tier. After Preller’s first rebuild following the disastrous “won the offseason” in 2014, the team wisely changed their strategy and decided to instead rebuild by investing in scouting, draft, and development. They poured their improved financial resources into the farm and have since generated via draft or trade a long list of talented young players. Some haven’t developed into MLB stars yet (such as Joey Lucchesi and Paddack). To early to judge though. Given time many of these prospects (Patino, CJ Abrams, Morejon, Weathers, Hassell Jr., James Wood, Xavier Edwards, Owen Cassie, Gore, Luis Castillo, etc…) my well emerge as MLB stars.
So it’s way too early to say they’ve turned out to be garbage. Especially knowing that Tatis, France, Lauer, Max Fried, Urias, Cal Quantrill, Margot, Andres Munoz, Naylor, Kluber, and Trea Turner are fine examples of recent players from Padre farm system that are not at all garbage .
I love these Milwaukee fans crying poor. Come to Pittsburgh and see the true meaning of hell.
Buccrazy, I hear ya. Sucks being poor and eating Ramen. From 1983 until Attanisio bought the Brewers in 2004 we were doing just that. He’s able to spend about 120 million. For your sake, I wish Nutting would do the same thing. Pittsburgh is a good baseball town. Good fans.
Attanasio doesn’t “spend about 120 million” or close to it each year. Last time I checked and went to a game I paid good bucks for parking, a seat, food & drink, and MLB memorabilia. Also paid for the stadium to be built. Plus Attanasio receives a chunk of $$ each year from MLB and” large market teams” in revenue sharing! Tell me again how much Mr. Attanasio spends each year?
crying poor is a bit of an overstatement methinks… just a bit confused why a team in first would trade arguably the best closer in the game, at this time, for what they got, then not get the bat that was needed… and then turn around and DFA part of the trade because you traded for too many players who play the same position of the player who got traded… I mean, even the explanation doesnt make any sense!
no one is arguing with you that Pitt is hell tho… so, ya know… sorry about that
They wanted to dump hader contract. It was small market BS no doubt but the pirates won’t have a closer who gets 11m ever unless he ends up in jail and out of baseball and they get stuck with him.
Angels need to take a flyer on this guy
I would laugh endlessly if the Padres got him off waivers.
LolBrewers is becoming a thing. Don’t think this is a “fleece” quite yet but I doubt Rogers pitches in a way that makes it anything but.
yeah, the timing of this trade makes no sense at all… why not wait til the offseason and have 15 other teams interested in him too?
Be nice if Cleveland made a claim for Lamet.
Get the Orioles jersey ready
This comes as a bit of a shock, but Boston would actually get 1st crack in the AL east…
As a Brewer fan, I’m not going to say this is a good part of why our system sucks but…
Actually I lied. This is exactly why our system sucks. We trade away our better prospects for marginal upgrades, and we honestly don’t get much back for our sought after pieces.
I look at this Hader trade as getting ONE controllable piece that is an iffy asset at best. He seems like he could just be our next Keston hiura. And they took back Lamet as a way to balance the trade? Why are they doing the padres favors? If they want Hader, they want Hader. But losing, because sorry stearns but they are losing him, he owes nothing to the brewers, a piece of the Hader trade a mere say after doesn’t look good.
Even with a couple weeks of not being himself, I find it hard to believe there wasn’t a better offer for Hader. But, one decent prospect, a pending free agent who’s been struggling even longer than Hader, and someone who they’re just going to lose now? Sounds like a stupid deal to me. When’d we get Doug Melvin back?
Two prospects, not one. But I agree with your point.
I believe that pitcher has always to go doesn’t he? But yeah, I think a struggling reliever, 1 decent prospect, 1 lotto-ish prospect, and apparently a pitcher we had little desire to keep, makes me think back to when we traded Carlos Lee AND Nelson Cruz for Francisco Cordero, Laynce Nix and Kevin Mench. Granted, that trade was bad and looks even worse when you look at what Nelson Cruz had done now, and still beats this one handily in terms of being a bad deal. But this one looked iffy at the on set, and then they basically just said, “oh actually we didn’t even truly want this guy” and bought it down to 2 prospects and a rental
Also he has one more yr at arbitration and he made 4.75 this yr. So that will go up. Do teams feel he is a 5.5-6 mil pitcher. We will see
It would be amazing if the Padres could get him back!!!
Lamet has likely gotten the dumpster diving Pirates attention.
Probably two of the dumbest and most random transactions you will ever see in a row here. Trade for a guy then DFA him, even though I don’t think he’s that good, for lesser players.
Also the cherry on top is trading for a guy who was free to sign all season who hasn’t even pitched in years. Brewers are a good team, what on earth are they doing here??
That was my number 1 question. Why trade a prospect for a guy you could have signed yourselves two weeks ago? Especially when he likely won’t be available until Sept. And MKE is picking up the entire contract… Headscratchee for sure.
As a cardinals fan, I’m having a hard time seeing them giving his roster spot to rossenthal who hasn’t pitched yet this year
really cut lamet so we could bring keston back up to hit .165 for us
Huirá is a member of the against the pirate all stars. Destroys them and sucks against everyone else.
Welcome to the Chicago White S…and he’s injured…
“While Rogers is certainly a fine player, few would argue that he’s been capable of pitching at the elite level of Hader.”
Yeah, well, I guess that makes me one of the few, the proud, the argumentative.
Key word: “capable”
This year, Rogers has a 1.3 fWAR in 41.1 innings. Hader has a 0.6 fWAR in 35.0 innings.
Hader is more of a strikeout pitcher: 15.43 K/9 to Rogers’ 10.45 K/9
But Rogers has a better K/BB: 5.33 to Hader’s 5.00
Rogers has a much better HR/9: 0.22 to Hader’s 1.80
Hader has a better opponent BA: .198 to Rogers’ .236
Their WHIP is practically the same: Hader’s 1.09 to Rogers’ 1.11
Rogers has a much better FIP: 2.34 to Hader’s 3.40
Hader has a much better LOB%: 78.8% to Rogers’ sub-par 60.8%
Hader has 29 saves to Rogers’ 28.
B-Ref’s WAR is kinder to Hader than Fangraphs’: 0.0 to Rogers’ -0.3.
Baseball Prospectus’s WARP prefers Hader: 0.9 to Rogers’ 0.7
All told, yeah, Hader’s the better closer; he has fewer blown saves and better peripherals for the most part. But I don’t mind taking issue with the language used above. I don’t think the numbers this year make the case that Hader is so much more elite that he’s dunking on Rogers. I don’t think that’s fair. Of course, now that Hader’s moved to pitcher’s heaven in San Diego, he’s probably going to look a lot better, and the move to Milwaukee will probably hurt Rogers. But, still, I think Rogers maybe deserves a little more respect. It’s not like he’s been lapped by Hader this year.
Agree with most of what you say above, though prefer to compare the two pitchers based upon stats over their past 3 or more years, not just this year. Not quite fair to depict Hader’s ( or Roger’s ) abilities based on this year alone.
Also, with configuration adjustments over past 6-7 years Petco has not been the pitchers heaven it used to be. Runs there are down this year but that’s largely due to a bad Padres lineup and an excellent Padres rotation. But Miller Park is certainly one of the most hitter friendly. There is no doubt that Rogers is a closer-level talent though, thanks for making that case.
@Fink, it’s a results based biz and the key result for a closer is Saves. Hader has blown only 2 while Rogers has blown 7. I’d say that’s enough to call a ‘lap’. That being said, I agree with you that Rogers is still pretty good, but all closers should be 85-90% successful, especially if you want to call them ‘elite’. Unfortunately for Rogers, he’s got no chance to make that happen the rest of the year and therefore is not elite.
Seriously? You are trying to use WAR for a partial season for relievers? You need 3 full season or a minimum of 150 IP for relievers to get an accurate comparison. Hader is elite. He had 2 bad games. Rogers is good, but not elite. He has been bad for 2 months. https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/haderjo01.shtml#2019-2022-sum:pitching_standard vs https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/rogerta01.shtml#2019-2022-sum:pitching_standard
“You need 3 full season or a minimum of 150 IP for relievers to get an accurate comparison.”
I know that the proviso with defensive metrics is that you need three years’ worth, but I never heard that applied to closers. Where’d that come from?
Curiously enough, I went and checked their respective fWAR from 2020-2022, and guess what? They rank 8th and 9th: Hader with 3.5 fWAR and Rogers with 3.4 fWAR.
https://bit.ly/3P3aCuD
Then I went back another year to check 2019-2022. Hader ranks second with 5.8 fWAR and Rogers ranks 4th with 5.5 fWAR.
https://bit.ly/3Q2CEaS
Doesn’t look to me like Hader dunks on Rogers by those measures.
Fourth in fWAR might be considered elite, no?
Don’t know how the damned URL shortener effed-up the second link, but here’s the correct one (I hope):
https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=rel&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2022&month=0&season1=2019&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2019-01-01&enddate=2022-12-31
it was my understanding that WAR is useful as a comparison for many position players but not so much for RPs and middle IFs. It’s especially difficult for RPs because managers use them differently and the WAR metrics don’t parse out well. For example, Hader was often used in 7th-9th, pitching multiple innings, and not always a closer. His value was that he could come in and simply blow away the best the opposition has to offer.
These are both really good RPs but with differing abilities, and I don’t fault Milw. for making this trade. SD was really frustrated by Rogers’ rapid decline the past 2 months (blown save extravaganza) and just simply couldn’t fathom him as closer moving into late summer. So they pulled the trigger and hope for the best.
That’s taken into account in the calculation of fWAR:
‘Leverage
‘We want to give relievers who pitch in higher leverage spots more credit, but we have to make an adjustment to their leverage index first. The idea behind WAR is that we are comparing a player to a replacement level player. For a starting pitcher, that’s easy enough to do. If you get hurt, you’re replaced by someone from Triple-A. But relief pitchers have a hierarchy. If the closer gets hurt, a Triple-A player doesn’t slot into the closer’s role. Rather, everyone in the pen moves up a slot and the Triple-A arm takes the lowest rung on the ladder. As a result, we want to account for this by considering the reliever’s role in the WAR calculation. You may hear this referred to as “chaining.”
‘LI Multiplier = (1 + gmLI) / 2
‘Essentially, we’re regressing the pitcher’s average leverage index halfway toward average to account for the chaining effect. Once you have the LI Multiplier, multiply it by “WAR” for relievers. You can ignore this step for starters.’
https://library.fangraphs.com/war/calculating-war-pitchers/
Thanks Ployed for those specs on how fWAR is derived. Will be interesting to see what sort of contracts are offered to Rogers this offseason.
I’m sure the Angels will place a claim.
The people insisting that there’s no way Lamet gets claimed are drunk. For $2M this year and maybe $6M next year not one of 29 teams would be willing to see if a once promising arm can turn it around? Elderly journeymen get more than that amount of money all the time.
The people insisting that there’s no way Lamet gets claimed are drunk. For $2M this year and maybe $6M next year not one of 29 teams would be willing to see if a once promising arm can turn it around? Elderly journeymen get more than that amount of money all the time.
You can say that again.
Craig Counsell has been leaving struggling relievers in lately. I don’t understand behind the scenes but it’s happened more than just to Josh Hader.
I gave you a thumbs up but I have a reply. I think it has to do with trust. Like I trust that Yelich will not be the same ever, but I also see him having a .290 avg with 15-25hrs at some point once or more in his ‘new’ era. A leash is only as long as you want it to be. But I have faith in all our players. Just glad we didn’t trade for Gallo. Phew!
Red Sox will claim him. We need arms.
Stearns looks like a clown right now. The past week really make the brewers front office look like a dumpster fire. They’ve clearly given up a WS this year. Stearns must REALLY like Esteury Ruiz, even though he’s currently listed as the brewers 5th OF prospect (9th overall).
Prospect rankings are always accurate.
This definitely felt like a year the Brewers should be going all in not making their roster worst for something down the road.
Ballnglove
who is listing him 9th overall? BA doesn’t have him in the top 100 for 2022.
@Shawnpe- Not trying to speak for ballnglove but I think he meant Ruiz is currently listed as the 5th best OFer on the MKE farm and 9th overall in their Top 30 (per MLB.com prospect rankings)
He should have known that, lol. We all slip up from time to time, lol
KC should be all over Lamet.
Comments on the web very negative! Do not understand getting Rosenthal at All! I am a poet and I do not even know it!
Question 1: SD probably would have DF’A him anyway — MILW could have just waited on him for later.
Question 2: Will SFGiants look to that garbage bin and pick up Lamet? as another reclamation project
It sure smells like Brewers brass, was unaware Lamet had reached the 5 year service mark only a week or two ago. I think they thought they could send him down. Brewers jobbed themsleves with this blunder.
They got low balled of course. Everybody knew they had to offload him. It really probably was the best offer. The offers would have been the same or weaker next year or this off season. We got taken advantage of. Same thing will happen with Corbin. Hopefully he’ll accept an extension but my eyes point to a trade when the time comes or free agency if we keep him for as long as we can.