The Major League Baseball Players Association announced Tuesday morning that a “significant” majority of minor leaguers have signed authorization cards in favor of the MLBPA creating a minor league bargaining unit. The MLBPA has formally requested that MLB recognize its new effort to represent minor leaguers. Evan Drellich of The Athletic first reported that the union had received majority support from minor leaguers on the matter and requested voluntary recognition from MLB.
The MLBPA first sent authorization cards to minor league players last week — a first step toward unionizing minor league players who have previously lacked the representation and collective bargaining capabilities enjoyed by Major League players. If MLB chooses not to acknowledge the the MLBPA as the new bargaining unit for minor league players, the MLBPA can (and surely will) file a motion with the federal National Labor Relations Board (NLRB). That will prompt an election among the minor league players, and if there’s a majority among those who vote in that election, the NLRB would subsequently require Major League Baseball to recognize the MLBPA as the bargaining unit of minor league players.
It’s another notable step in what appears to be a fast-moving process. MLB has yet to comment on the unionization effort whatsoever, so it remains wholly unclear when or whether the league will provide a response. The MLBPA can push forward and pursue an NLRB-prompted election at any time, so if commissioner Rob Manfred and his team continue to remain silent on the matter, the union can still advance the process. An MLBPA official told MLBTR last week that the proposed unionization efforts would give minor leaguers their own separate bargaining unit under the MLBPA umbrella, adding that any minor league CBA would be negotiated independently of the Major League CBA that was completed earlier this year.
“Minor league Players have made it unmistakably clear they want the MLBPA to represent them and are ready to begin collective bargaining in order to positively affect the upcoming season,” MLBPA executive director Tony Clark said in a statement released Tuesday morning.
Drellich’s piece contains quotes from several minor league players on the matter and notes that there would still be some hurdles regarding the Rookie-level Dominican Summer League, as the league is not based in the United States. Still, Drellich emphasizes that the players union has told minor leaguers that it plans to attempt to bargain over the working conditions of DSL players as well.
The move to add the majority of minor league players to the MLBPA ranks would see union membership skyrocket from 1,200 — the 40 players on the 40-man rosters of all 30 MLB teams — to more than 5,000. The MLBPA has already bulked up its staff in preparation for the move, announcing last week that it had hired every employee from Advocates for Minor Leaguers as a new full-time employee of the MLBPA.
Currently, neither the salaries nor benefits of minor league players are collectively bargained. Minor league players are only paid during the season, and their minimum salaries range from $400 per week in the lower levels — where seasons are only three months long — to $700 per week in Triple-A (via the Associated Press).
Sounds like Clark is ready for a another lockout.
Of minor league baseball?
Yeah right. They are just doing this so MLB will lose their leverage of using minor leaguers as replacement players in the event of another work stoppage.
That was sarcastic. Players can’t lock out the owners. In the last labor issue, the owners locked out the players.
1972 – Strike
1973 – Lockout
1976 – Lockout
1980 – Strike
1981 – Strike
1985 – Strike
1990 – Lockout
94-95 – Strike
2021 – Lockout
I’m not happy with either side. Where’s Jimmy Hoffa when you need him?
BTW
Strike = players
Lockout = owners
They’re all prima donnas
Where have you gone Joe DiMaggio?
They’re all after maximizing their income.
Just like you.
The only time I’m loaded is on the weekend…
Just like you?
DiMaggio probably isn’t the guy you want to reference. He held out for bigger contracts. Nothing wrong with that but he was no different any of today’s players in that regard.
And I think Hoffa is in the NY Giants stadium.
Giants Stadium.
@joe i think curly was quoting a song
I’m against most unions. They are now a relic of the past and not needed in most of America. But this is one of those instances where minors leaguers should get compensated a bit more. But as was stated in the article the union has already bulked up and hired more staff in anticipation. Aka the fat cats and the powers at be will get there pockets lined a lot more then what will be bargained for the minor leaguers. Hence why in todays current society unions are mostly bad now
Stopped reading after “I’m against most unions”. Everything after that screams “Any comments I make on a labor relations issue are not to be taken seriously”.
More like everything after that screams “I don’t support the further coddling of spoiled, tone-deaf, greedy, selfish, brittle, fragile, performance enhancing using (including the obviously performance enhancing using Mike Trout- he doesn’t look like a stereotypical steroid user out of coincidence and there haven’t been rumors swirling around his being a user for years and years and years by coincidence), Major League baseball “players” ”
Smash the MLBPA union. The minor league “players” could still be paid more- it’s not mutually exclusive.
Why do you even watch if you feel this way?
Imagine looking at a picture of (brittle, fragile) mike trout and still deluding yourself into believing he’s ‘clean’. It’s ridiculous- roided out of his mind.
ballistics – I’ve thought for years that unions were necessary at the turn of the century…last century, but are obsolete today. However, I agree that something has to be done about how little the minor league players are paid. If this is the only solution, then so be it.
…for clarification, I’m referring to their pay only. I’m not referring to the minutia of service time and other non-pay related issues.
I hear people say that unions are obsolete now, but never why. Maybe because the argument can’t really be justified?
I’m glad you asked BlueSkies. Back at the turn of the century (no I wasn’t quite born yet), there were no labor laws in place to protect workers. Throughout the 20th century, that all changed. The laws that protect workers today have taken the place of the need for unions, or at least what they were originally formed to do. Now unions seem to be nothing more than profit centers with a political agenda that hinder companies from getting a job done efficiently. I have personal experience with it.
I really hope that the minor league players who are making the current, league minimum wages won’t have to pay union dues unless they get a big raise or make a minimum of $XX per week. These guys already can’t survive on the low pay they receive; imagine tacking union dues on top of that with no increases to their pay?
Gabriel… if you want to not be a child. And have a full blown conversation oin the pros and cons of unions. The origin of them during the industrial revolution versus what it being used to say.. the California port.. Starbucks… I’m more than willing to be rational and have a Dialogue.
There is always that give and take with employer vs employee. And yes it’s tricky and each situation is unique and needs to be looked at and solved that way. What I think would help a lot with the conversation is if someone who wants to debate unions. Is that in their career been both an employee at one point and an employer.
Hmm. In reality, the labor laws you believe make unions obsolete are the very laws that made them possible, such as protecting the right to organize and collectively bargain. Your personal experiences notwithstanding.
In reality. Your just talking in circles. Your just misinformed. No disrespect, go educate yourself. I’d gladly expand and have a conversation oin your interpretation of labors laws and their influence oin unions
Baseball is boring is profile_screen_name. He is just a troll.
So Prov356, you are BmoreBallistics? Collectively bargaining in a changing workplace is always necessary.
Companies “getting a job done efficiently” is code for screwing over their workers so they can make the most profit possible and pay their executives obscene compensation.
? I’m my own person. Don’t mix me with prob. You can change and evolve to make a company more efficient without screwing over workers… their are an insane amount of variables to this. Size of company matters… talking small mom n pop? Publicly traded company? To your logic your probably mostly right about a public traded company but they answer to share holders. Which is your 401k… so don’t cry when you look that it’s lost 20 percent in value yoy … instead say ohh okay I had to lose money n my future so someone can keep there job.
In 2022, MLB players pay $70 per day in union dues. For a MLB minimum player, that is 1.8% of their wages. At the end of the year the MLBPA in essence repays their dues with interest from the proceeds of the MLBPA’s licensing program.
That 1.8% is a typical amount for union workers. In the US it averages under 2%. On average, union workers’ wages are 11.2% higher than nonunion workers, so that 2% is a great investment. A 500% return.
Pretty sure that minor league players are looking for more than an 11.2% increase in pay. Just paying them minimum wage would mean an increase of close to 100%.
There is always going to be a winner and a loser. That’s free market that’s capitalism. Is it morally and ethically right all the time? Is it perfect? What system would you like?
If anyone is talking in circles, its you Bmore/prov356. Please provide an actual example. Even one would help.
Financially from a employees standpoint that seems well and good. Now as a employers standpoint. Are you getting more of a return out of a Unionized crew? Versus not?
Your mental capacity just cannot keep up pads fan. It’s okay. Need low hanging fruit like you around. The useful idiots as the politicians like to say. Good day to you little one.
@ BmoreBallistics. Hard to tell what you are talking about, or even who you are responding to, but we can all see that insults are big part of your approach. So it might be best to not accuse others of talking in circles.
Hey Pads Fan. First, you and I have had exchanges on here before so you know my screen name, which I have had for years. I don’t need to use two or change mine every couple of days like many trolls do on here.
Second, your job performance is what you use to bargain with. Your value is based on hard work coupled with how many people are standing in line behind you that can do what you do. There are bad companies and there are good companies and the same with employers and employees. I’ve worked for and with them all. If you aren’t treated well, get another job. It’s the free market.
With respect to efficiency, when one employee can’t fix a problem he identifies because it’s not his job, or because that job belongs to a union worker, that is the definition of inefficiency.
That’s my opinion based on my experiences. I’m not trying to sell you on my point of view. Your opinion is right for you based on your experiences.
@prov how much experience do you have with unions, and i would like to know where we differ. i’m a union carpenter and proud to be one and i can tell you right now, even though i like my job i wouldn’t do my job if it was for the union. i will agree with you that unions have grown fat and drunk and forgot that there there to protect the working man. imo i feel we’re at a point where unions are giving themselves a black eye because of there greed, and big corporations are playing nice, but as soon as unions go away we’re going right back to working conditions comparable to industrial revolution.
Hi brodie. “…but as soon as unions go away we’re going right back to working conditions comparable to industrial revolution.”
If working under a union works for you, that’s great. I just don’t think they’re necessary anymore. As for your statement I copied and pasted, that’s an extreme assumption. The fact that there are many industries that aren’t unionized that aren’t working under industrial revolution conditions proves that wrong. I’m not knocking your opinion or personal experience. I just disagree based on my experience. It’s all subjective.
@prov356 thanks for the well thought out response, it’s refreshing having a discussion or debate and it not end up a “your an idiot because you don’t think like i do.” anyhow back to my point it’s ok that our points differ i respect your points and you make some good ones, and i did use an extreme example and didn’t take into account when i posted that your image or brand is the most important nowadays i.e. the whole trevor mess. i feel like most employers are aware of this and did the math and in the long run it more profitable to keep the workforce happy than the pr nightmare of being that ahole company. this will be the last i speak of this, yes i side with unions, but unions gave me a pretty good life so far both as a kid and now as an adult (i’m a union carpenter), and i’m not going to try to change anyones views on unions because this isn’t the place for it, all i ask is before anyone wants to hardcore bash unions do some research on the union and the felid because all unions are not the same
Well said brodie. Thanks.
no problem bro, i appreciate your challenging banter, one of the main reasons i engage in this site is for a good argument with good points even if i disagree with them. i will say this it does get tiresome and sad that it seems the majority of us can’t discuss something have different view points on the issue, and we resort to trolling because either said person lost the argument or they have to be “right” therefore there point is right and you’re an idiot and your point is wrong because it’s not mine.
Exactly. Disagreement always turns into personal attacks. I blame it on pride. People can’t wrap their heads around the fact that some people might see things differently than they do. It’s too bad. Lot’s of angry people out there.
Its simply the same thing your business would do should a union come in. Let the union do the process. No business wants a union sooner than it has to be. I question how the MLBPA can claim to be able to negotiate separately from the Major League players, when things like the international draft has a bearing on FA compensation. I would want a completely separate representative as a minor league player. I can easily see the MLBPA selling them down the river for the benefit of the top earning players.
Not quite the normal rules with MLB’s trust exemption from the government. The union has quite a bit of leverage and hopefully they finally start caring about people other than MLB veterans.
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Would be nice if MLB just recognized this and accepted the MLBPA as the minor leaguers bargaining unit. But not holding my breath. MLB’s MO is to oppose this and stall the certification for as long as possible.
But am glad so many minor league players have signed their authorization cards so quickly. Long past time for minor leaguers to get fair treatment.
Indeed. For them to hold up the process as a mere formality is an unecessary slap to the face at this juncture. Get it done!
Why so Clark has a free pass to do Lockdown 2.0 this Winter? That’s the only reason he’s pushing to get this down now is because they have leverage over preventing next season. Doesn’t sound like MLB has stood in the way at all anyway here though. I think you took the section of the article about what they could do as what they are doing.
We found Manfred’s account here. Yay Sports, the OWNERS locked out the players last winter. Let me repeat that, because you don’t seem to understand it.
The. Owners. Locked. Out. The. Players.
If you expect the worst from MLB, you will never be disappointed in their response.
If the owners didn’t lock them out the players would be striking just about now.
That would have meant the players had agreed to play without a CBA. That would have been a huge concession, especially when the owners refused to even come to the table to negotiate for 2+ months.
no they were going to play under the old CBA and their regular contracts then put pressure on the owners since the owners make their real money during the playoffs like the players did for the strike in the 90’s .. no playoffs no world series = major dollars lost for the owners while the players still made i cant remember if it is all their annual salary since they played the full regular season or majority of their pay.
So the owners jumped ahead of them to save the salary and put pressure on the majority of the players with a lockout. since they only get money saved out from their stash cash from the union reserves. This was the whole reason the MLBPA told players to stash cash.
I know exactly what I read and more importantly how the above mentioned situation has transpired thus far. I certainly do not need your guidance. Thanks anyway.
Lmao, I wasn’t even replying to you so some guidance is clearly needed
Yup, you are a shill for MLB.
Its a thread. ANYONE can respond to you.
Let me repeat it since it doesn’t seem to be getting through.
MLB. Locked. Out. The. Players.
The players didn’t lockdown MLB.
Does that make it simple enough for you to get now?
I hate hitting the cute little mute button before Noon local time. In your case I am making an exception.
Please do. It’s no doubt going to be a nicer place without your angry self scolding anyone you disagree with
Are you implying that the players union would not have gone on strike right before the playoffs? Neither. Side. Cares. About. The. Fans. There was going to be a work stoppage because neither side would compromise. The players just got beat to the punch.
The players were on the field that entire season without a CBA. When the owners made quite obvious that they were not going to negotiate in good faith by refusing to even come to the table (sound familiar), the players went out on strike.
Im not fired i quit?
lets be real if the owners didnt lock out the players the players would have gone on strike, The outcome would have been the same regardless of which side you want to choose.
@Pads Fan – It really doesn’t matter who did what last winter. The facts are that the existing CBA had expired and the players were not going to play under the rules of the old CBA (clearly stated by the MLBPA) so if the owners did not initiate the lockout then the players would have gone on strike.
So this time the owners got it right then, and the two sides were thus compelled to come to an agreement BEFORE the season started – even if both sides, predictably, held out till the last possible minute.
It worked – clearly to their mutual benefit – with no lost games.
Lets be real.
The owners DID lockout the players after refusing to negotiate at all for 2+ months.
Neither you nor I know what would have happened, but one thing is certain. They players can’t lockout the owners.
Another thing is certain, the players can only strike during the season. That would have meant they made a good faith gesture to play without a new CBA.
The last time that happened the owners refused to even try to negotiate for half a season and the players were forced to strike just to get them back to the table.
The outcome would not have been the same. There would have been a work stoppage and part of the season, probably the playoffs, would have been lost again.
It matters a tremendous amount who did what last winter. The players can only go on strike DURING a season. Let me repeat that. The players can only strike during a season. They would have had to agree to play under the old CBA in order to strike. Not my opinion. Its the law.
This past winter the owners refused to negotiate for 2+ months and then locked out the players because the players refused to cave to their demands. In essence, the owners took their ball and went home.
We will never know what the players would have done, because the owners locked them out. Trying to claim that they would have done one thing or the other, besides what was legally available to them, is not a fruitful line of argument.
AFTER locking the players out, the owners refused to come to the table for 2 months.
whats ‘significant’ precious and can we see the receipts
Minor League players have been treated like henhouse chickens. I just hope in getting fair treatment for these players they don’t crush a system that gives opportunity for so many to keep the dream alive. I could see further contraction in order to squeeze out players that have little chance to make the Majors. I also wonder what happens to the generous bonus system for first rounders if there is the chance of strikes.
Does anybody really doubt it’s going to force more contraction? These minor league teams don’t make much money and it’s not realistic to the the major league club is going to double or triple what they spend there. They’ll end up just trimming way down to only the players that they see having a real future in the big leagues.
Your lack of understanding of federal labor law is showing. Once a CBA is signed, MLB will be unable to further contract the minor leagues ad if they even tried to do it now, they would get raked over he coals in court.
Minor league teams made HUGE amounts of money prior to COVID, and according to other articles on this website are on pace to make more than billion in 2022.
Minor league teams have been selling for $60-90 million the past 2 years. Investors are not laying out that kind of money in order to lose money. They are doing it because they know that as long as there is the possibility of fans being in the stands they are going to make a hefty profit.
Last, but certainly not least. MLB needs a robust minor league system in order to have games to develop the players that eventually make the major league. They don’t develop into MLB caliber players by playing scrimmages on the back fields. A large percentage, over 25%, are players that no one thought when they were drafted or signed in Int’l FA would ever make the majors. They were the organizational filler that MILB needs in order to play the games. And yet there they are in the majors.
This. Owning a minor league team is a fantastic deal. You basically just need a stadium and some creative folks to run promotions. The players are paid by the big league team. I don’t know how this is going to come out, but if MLB teams just doubled minor league pay overnight, it would hardly be a burden at all. It would amount to the pay of a random 1st year arbitration outfielder, about $4m.
Once the MLBPA is recognized as the union for MILB players and a CBA with MLB is signed, they cannot cut any jobs. There will be no more contraction of teams.
MLB already contracted 42 teams because they knew that this was coming and they know they can’t do more without it being litigated. MLB just lost a $185 million case to current and former players. They certainly don’t want to be back in court, this time being sued by MLBPA and NLRB.
@ pads fan
Hmmm. Auto companies are unionized. They cut jobs. Please explain why this would be different. Also, your getting confused with your numbers. Revenue is different from profit. Companies that make Millions in Revenue may be losing money. Just ask Sears, or Circuit City. If you have access to teams’ private accounting statements, by all means prove me wrong. While most will make money, not all will. Unlike a retail chain, some rich people buy sports teams as a status symbol. As there is a limited quantity in their area, that’s what makes the price go up when sold.
Both Ford and GM have a CBA with more than one union that requires them to have the same number of union employees. They can close plants, but they have to retain the same number of union employees. So either they pay people to not work, or they open a plant elsewhere and hire union workers.
Check your facts. Since October and November 2019 respectively, neither GM nor Ford have cut a single job in the current CBAs they have with the UAW and the 2 other largest unions they deal with.
They have closed plants, but have to hire union workers at new plants in the same numbers. In fact, Ford is required to add 8,500 jobs in the US and spend $6 billion on US based plants by the end of the current CBA in November of 2023. I don’t remember how many GM was required to add, but it was similar.
The CBA’s with the UAW are not completely on the side of the workers. Both give the automakers the right to offer early retirement packages to workers in order to lower payrolls. It also gives them the opportunity to hire more temporary workers for up to 90 days before they are required to join the union.
We have the books of two teams that are owned by publicly held companies. We know that both are making in excess of 30% profit.
I don’t know how many companies you own stock in or that you follow their quarterly or annual stockholders reports, but please find one that makes that amount of profit. I want to invest in that company.
The Minor Leagues are run like a baseball plantation. I don’t see in other sports where not treating these players like disposable human beings has harmed opportunity. The signing bonus system is in the CBA, so it won’t change any time soon whether the minors are unionized or not.
You guys are hilarious with your associations. Call McGuire or call McBluff – they’ll get it figured out. It’s knowing thats half the battle.
Minor league players are treated like fast food workers give them both a union
Yep. Then it will cost as much to go to a minor league game as it does to go to a major league game. Much like how it now costs about as much to go to a drive thru as to go to a decent sit down restaurant.
“Then it will cost as much to go to a minor league game as it does to go to a major league game”
I feel like this got explained to you the on the last article that got posted about the MILB unionizing, but here goes again:
The cost to attend a minor league baseball game is almost solely based on what teams think people are willing to pay. It has almost nothing to do with player salaries. In fact, the reverse is true. Player salaries rise because team profits rise. It is not the other way around like you seem to think it is.
If a team could charge $1,000 a ticket and pay their players nothing, they would.
Worse. Fast food workers have to be paid at least the minimum wage. Minor league players earn a little more than half the national minimum wage.
Yikes
Wrong Hiflew. MLB owners pay the players, not the owners of the minor league teams. So ticket prices in the minors will not change because of this.
@pads fan,
If you think paying the players more won’t affect the agreement between the MLB team and the minor league team, you’re delusional. It may be as simple as cutting the number of players the MLB team supplies, requiring the minor league team to fill in the rest of the roster. Or it could require them to pay all the coaches. It will be something.
You are missing the point or points.
MILB players are currently making about half of federal minimum wage and about 1/3 of minimum wage in many of the states they play in including California, NY, Massachusetts, Connecticut, and Washington.
In the current CBA with MLBPA, MLB owners agreed not to cut anymore jobs in the minors. Jeff Passan wrote extensively about this back in February.
MLB already cut 42 teams in anticipation of unionization.
The current agreement with minor league teams and MLB runs for 7 years and they cannot force those owners to take on any expenses that are not included in that agreement .
Once there is a CBA with the MLBPA regarding minor league baseball, MLB will not be able to cut jobs just like they cannot in MLB.
MLB needs minor league baseball. Both to create a fan base for the game and to develop professional players. They can’t just send all the players they draft or sign straight to the majors.
Anything else you need to have cleared up?
For the love of all that’s good and holy can we please get an updated pic of Clark? That beard is too epic not to be his profile pic here.
Best of luck to MILB. I hope this is a good first step in acknowledging time spent in the minors should count towards service time.
Getting called up to double or triple a should be service time it should also be applied if a foreign player goes to play in Asian pro Leagues
It’s gonna have some strange deleterious effects you can’t even fathom right now
MLBPA about to ask for $50k a week per player
Time in minor leagues should count towards service time. Negotiate an actual contract with these players when signing them rather than a bonus for some and Pennie’s for others.
4K MiLB players multiplied by $50k/year divided by 30 MLB teams is just under $7 million per team. Since there’s no salary floor, teams can take that from the MLB player budget. For the cost of a Kike Hernandez or Jackie Bradley Jr, a MLB team can pay their whole farm systems yearly salary.
Wouldn’t cost that much, because they are already paid something now.
Problem is that the MLBPA represents Enrique Hernandez, and JBJ, and they are not gonna want them being unemployed for the sake of the minimal dues those 4K players provide. Obvious conflict of interest at work if the same union represents both sides.
It will be interesting what the domino effects will be. I can see the affiliated teams will contract further. Money and benefits will be better for those signed with affiliated teams but many players who would have been drafted and signed will be resigned to Indy Leagues and they will be worse off than they would have been under current conditions.
Once the union is recognized and a CBA is signed, no further contraction will be possible.
MLB just lost a $185 million lawsuit brought by current and former minor league players. If they tried contracting again after cutting 42 teams last season, they would find themselves right back in court and this time the federal government would be a party to the lawsuit against them.
What you will see is no more Development List players or teams stating them on an IL list if the player is just playing poorly. A lot of that was done to stay under the maximum rostered player lists. There will be less players being paid in the long run by MLB affiliated teams.
I think you misunderstood what he is saying. That is all controlled by what is agreed to in the CBA. MLB and MILB can’t do those things unless the players agree to it in the CBA they sign.
The suit that was decided back in March was not the suit brought by contracted teams. The suit was brought by players regarding California League teams unpaid wages dating back to the 2011 spring trading. They were suing based on California Labor Law.
The suit brought by contracted teams was only filed in December 2021. And far from over.
There were 3 suits that were combined into one class action suit. https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mlb-to-pay-185-million-to-settle-federal-class-action-lawsuit-filed-by-minor-league-players-per-report/#:~:text=A%20judge%20has%20approved%20a,Cooper.
I thought that he was referring to the suit from the contracted teams. Yes, I know that they are separate suits. There are a lot of players, especially lower level players that if they are struggling have been placed on either a Developmental list or placed on the IL to let them work on things. Nothing requires teams to do this with players. It allowed them to manipulate the maximum player rules. You will see a lot less of this if payrolls dramatically increase as I suspect that they will. Yes, the rostered players will benefit but those like that I mentioned will no longer be rostered and if they want to play and follow their dreams, they will have to go to Indy Leagues and will have even less than they do now.
“He” is you pretending to be someone else.
You need to put down the crack pipe.
“Put down the saki!”
:Put down the crack pipe!”
Right on, more angst between the players and owners.
Yep. Counterproductive to the game in a big way. A permanent, unnecessarily confrontational tone using the disguise of “it’s always been like that.”
The game would benefit from a complete 180 degree turn from the personnel involved.
To bad they didn’t do this before Manfred destroyed all of those teams and jobs in the process. Would have been nice for alot of cities.
I think that was done partly in preparation for this. More pay for minor leaguers means there will likely be less minor leaguers and thus less minor league ball parks. Expect it to get worse.
How much is considered a fair wage for players who bring in no revenue? Also there should be cap on how long you can stay in the minors!
Don’t worry about the cap on time in minors, contraction will take care of that. Currently, the marginal cost of a minors player is near 0 right now for MLB clubs. Once they have to pay, they will remove the bottom 2/3rds of prospects that will never make the majors. Indy leagues will expand paying players roughly what the get now, if the leagues can stay solvent…
this is pretty interesting. i think the first round bonuses would need to be addressed
isn’t it considered a “good draft” if you have 1 player from a certain year of a certain draft on an mlb team? meaning, the vast majority of players fail. meaning the vast majority of 1st rounders fail. though the efficacy of first rounders making the mlb is higher than the later rounds.
but how do they account for failed 1st rounders that received large bonuses but also guys like mike piazza or albert pujols who were not first rounders but went on to be great?
if they make it something like “only 1st rounders” are “likely to make it to mlb”, imagine if they never let pujols attempt to make it
Startinglineup, 70% of 1st round draft picks make the majors and about 1 in 6 play at MLB average or above (2.0 WAR) in at least one season in their career.
There will be no further contraction. MLB already contracted 42 teams. Once the union is recognized and a CBA is signed, no more jobs will be cut.
Its not about whether MLB wants to be a holes about it. Federal labor law will control what they can and cannot do.
MLB just lost a $185 million lawsuit brought by current and former minor league players,. That also led to them requiring housing and one meal a day to be provide for minor league players.
After that loss in court, they don’t want to be back in court, this time defending themselves against both MLBPA and the NLRB.
Indy leagues are required by law to pay minimum wage. They don’t have the exemption that MLB has. Most players make more money per season in indy leagues than they do in MLB affiliated leagues.
Wait 5 years and see.
It will be the same in 5 years, because they will sign a CBA. The MLBPA already protected the number of minor league jobs in the current CBA they have with MLB. That will continue when they are representing minor league players too.
Minor league teams are being sold for 9 digit sums. I wouldn’t say minor leaguers bring in “no revenue”. Minor leagues contribute to the product at the major league level and are an undervalued part of building interest in baseball. That brings MLB more profits in the end.
and those hand full of teams that are in good shape will be the ones that remain. It’s the other ones that will get cut
MLB already cut 42 teams in preparation for the minor league players unionizing. They knew they were about to lose the lawsuit against them brought by current and former players and they could see the writing on the wall.
Once the players unionize and a CBA is agreed upon, MLB will not be able to cut more jobs.
Some teams and some players, Ring, but most do not.
Even the ones who never make the MLB team are a valuable part of the process.
Let MLB contract more teams and the major league product will suffer. Maybe not by much but with the increased money being spent by teams every year. It was only a matter of time before before minor leaguers got paid.
Look at the huge bonuses top international signings, top draft picks, and most free agents get. A fraction of those costs could double every teams MiLB payroll.
MLB teams have the money to pay all these guys, don’t cry me a river about contraction
I stopped after the first couple lines when you were ok with people losing their jobs so a few other could get raises.
Most people see the giant bonuses teams pay their top end prospects.. Teams know very well who to invest in and that’s exactly why they wont be spending money on the guys that don’t have that upside anymore. If there’s no profit there there’s no point in them doing it.
Have you looked at the major league product? Its already suffering. Maybe they should change the ball again?
MLB is making record amounts of both revenue and profit and that is increasing annually. Teams are increasing in value and double the rate of the S&P 500, which historically is one of the very best ROI investments out there. More people are watching live games between butts in seats, TV, and streaming than ever before. We have stars like Trout, Judge, Kershaw, Machado, Judge, Arenado, Verlander, and on and on today. The game is not suffering in any way, shape, or form.
All of the last dozen minor league teams sold have been for more than $30 million and all of the last 5 have been for more than $60 million. Minor league players are entertainment and they bring in massive revenue.
MLB pays the salaries of minor league players and coaches. After losing a lawsuit against them and having to pay 20,000 current and former minor league players $185 million, they agreed to provide a meal per day and housing for players (that are single, married players are on their own if they want to live with their families during the season) starting at some point during the 2022 season. But, and its a BIG BUT, MLB is requiring the minor league team owner to provide that meal and housing. None have provided housing yet as far as I can find in the media or in talking to local team owners. The logistics is incredible when you think about housing 25-30 players.
Minor league players will still only be making between $5 and $6 per hour on average, not including travel time, when the value of that meal and housing is included in their compensation.
MILB is a development source for MLB. They cannot simply draft players and bring them to the majors. They must have a place where they can learn and get better. They also can’t just keep the players that are expected to be MLB quality. #1, a large percentage of MLB players were not expected to make the majors. #2, they need to play games against someone in order to get better. MLB NEEDS the minors.
Maybe they should just call minor league time internships, like many other jobs do. You know, like where you have to work for free or little money to gain the experience needed to do the real job? Lots of college students and trade students gain experience this way for much less lucrative pay. Just like the minor league players, working the internship doesn’t guarantee the big money job.
My daughter is an intern at Google and she is making $93.6k. Minor league baseball is a profession. These guys already did 10 years of interning in Little League, high school, and college for more than a third.
The minor leagues are expected to bring in over $1 billion this year. If attendance rebounds to 2019 levels post COVID that number will go up even more.
The last handful of MILB teams sold for between $60 and 90 million. Investors plunk down that kind of money expecting to make a profit, and they do.
Expect MLB to do the worst thing possible and then you won’t be disappointed by their response.
Sad but true. MLB is the worst-managed of all the pro sports and it isn’t just a recent thing but a historical one. If MLB was smart they would now be saying, we don’t like it, but it’s done, so now let’s deal with it. Instead they will probably foot-drag and stonewall, and in the process make labor relations even worse than it is now, as if that was even possible.
I disagree with the people who say this will lead to contraction. MiLB teams provide development and build ground level interest in their product. The minors are much more valuable to Manfred than what the $5 tickets and $2 hot dogs bring in revenue. Interest in minor leaguers is at an all-time high. Baseball prospects have been big business for over a decade, it’s time the players got a decent wage. $14k for 3 months isn’t the end of the world but baseball could afford to pay them much more. Manfred bought minor teams and contracted the leagues in preparation for this moment. Baseball fans have been calling for better treatment of minor leaguers for decades. This was long overdue
14k for 3 months of being mediocre at your job is great pay! Most minor leaguers suck and need to realize such and get a real career
3 months? Minor league players show up to spring training in February. They are not paid for that at all. Then they play from April to August, 132-150 games depending on the level. September this year. Then if they are chosen for fall or winter league ball they play another 2 months without pay.
Here is what the organization that spearheaded the lawsuit said after the settlement was reached.
https://twitter.com/MiLBAdvocates/status/1548088798797393920?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1548088798797393920%7Ctwgr%5Ec171686d8abc6d062f672a6453da8ac2c0359254%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fembedly.forbes.com%2Fwidgets%2Fmedia.html%3Ftype%3Dtext2Fhtmlkey%3D3ce26dc7e3454db5820ba084d28b4935schema%3Dtwitterurl%3Dhttps3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fmilbadvocates%2Fstatus%2F1548088798797393920image%3Dhttps3A%2F%2Fi.embed.ly%2F1%2Fimage3Furl3Dhttps253A252F252Fabs.twimg.com252Ferrors252Flogo46x38.png26key3D3ce26dc7e3454db5820ba084d28b4935
Just cancel the MLB season and smash the MLBPeeA union, owners. Shove it in the players’ greedy, spoiled, tone deaf, selfish faces. The country would hardly even notice and you know it and you also know you could easily achieve a much better ROI with other investments. Thanks.
Better ROI with other investments? Have you not been paying attention? MLB is a cash cow for owners and players.
Why is everyone so bitter about minor leaguers getting paid more? I thought fans who think players are overpaid and greedy would like to see some of that pie shared with the younger guys.
It truly boggles my mind as well Farhan.
Nobody gives a crap about the plight of players or teams. What they see is how this is going to squeeze the lower levels of the minors and not be good for baseball in general. Just because you argue it’s good for the player doesn’t mean it’s good for the game and some of actually enjoy the minor leagues.
Yaysports, i’m glad you brought your crystal ball to predict the future.
you act like every team couldn’t afford an extra $2 million a year just to pay the players enough to each buy a car.
Have you guys not been paying attention to the billions of dollars that MLB makes?
It’s not a crystal ball it’s common sense.. They flat out aren’t going to pay players a significant wage if there’s no future with the team.
I don’t care about everyone else’s checkbook. The only one here worried about other peoples money seems to be you. I care about phasing out the minor leagues. I care about yet another contraction and i have the common sense to know contraction is exactly what happened last time they they had to make changes.
@yay milb isn’t going anywhere out of the 4 big sports bb is the hardest to predict who is a mlb caliber player, and it is a very complicated game to learn at higher levels. with no milb it will hurt the end product because we’re now just seeing sloppy play and teams will find it harder to expand there brand.
At this point MILB players would like to just not be sleeping 4-6 players per two bedroom apartment and eating ramen and peanut butter 2 meals per day,
Hopefully the milb players take the ultra wealthy greedy owners to the cleaners around same time MLB loses its antitrust exemption it paid for with bribes and empty threats
“MLBPeeA.” Almost forgot about that one.
Forgot the account name who did it from recent mlb/mlbpa standoff, but he should be preaching soon on here for the owners not to give an inch and whatever humorous copy & paste guidance.
Anybody else ever notice whenever this debate is going on you get the same hand full of people with gold banners showing up to try to shut anyone down that doesn’t agree with what the union is doing?
No but I notice the obvious bot accounts like profile_screen_name who show up and post anti-player garbage. I get why some fans hate the high prices players are paid but most minor leaguers are not making 6-7 digit salaries.
MiLB players getting representation and fair wages has been coming for a long time, why are people even surprised at this?
I’m not surprised but I’m also not silly enough to think it’s going to be good for the game. That’s the big disconnect here. The game and the effects on it aren’t your primary interest.
I think it will be good for the game. MLB isn’t losing money and you don’t need to cry if they have to pay their players more. They’ll just take it out of their payroll budget anyways. None of these teams are declaring bankruptcy
Lmao see that’s completely unrealistic.. I’m sure it sounds cute to you but in the real world it’s not going to happen. Loses will be offset by cuts. That’s just business.
But the union that will want that budget reproportioned to account for minor league payroll is the same as the one who wants bigger amounts for major league payroll. Do you not see a problem with that? It should absolutely not be the same union!
Awwwwww, YasySports muted me after I showed him he was a shill for MLB and wrong.
He was bugging me 1/2 hour ago so I made quick work of him…Thank You MLBTR for the beautiful little MUTE button <3
The problem with the muting system is it doesn’t just hide offending posters it also hides every reply in the thread. Then the worst of them simply create a new screen name and they’re off to the troll races again.
It’s not “all powerful” by any means but I guess it’s what we have. Some threads get so tainted I don’t wanna continue with them anyway.
Kind of weak, really. A WordPress thing. Years ago these comment boards were served by Discus. It works better, especially for muting. They had their reasons for migrating I’m sure, but it hasn’t improved this issue. I’m with you on the threads overrun with trash talkers.
Good thing you have half a dozen other accounts that you can copy and paste the same comment 100 times from that he doesn’t have muted.
Harambe weren’t you put down at the Zoo years ago? I don’t debate monkey ghosts. Adios amigo. MUTE!
My comment was at Pads Fans, not you.
I see people claiming contraction, but I’d argue for development purposes they’re at the point they need to be at.
The irony to me is that MLB could have avoided this completely by simply being more aware… of course… being tone deaf is something they’re good at.
Oh well.
Minor league baseball is for poor people living in poor towns. No thanks
San Antonio, Dallas suburbs, half a dozen teams in So Cal, 4 teams in
NYC area, Salt Lake City, Las Vegas, Colorado Springs. Could go on for hours. You get the point hopefully.
The rule has always been if your town is a magnet for tornados, drought, or you can support a fully functional gas station that has at least 6 options on a fountain drink machine, you are awarded a minor league team.
Are you being sarcastic? Minor league teams are selling for $60-90 million today. They are in places that can draw huge numbers of fans.
There are no teams in podunk anymore.
Please don’t feed the trolls.
Wow what an ignorant statement.
Maybe minor league players are trying to match the wages of fast food workers in California…
I mostly support these minor league players and their need for better pay but unions will only serve to force the owners to raise ticket prices to those who can’t afford to pay to see a MLB game. It’s soft science but unions in general cause inflation.
Minor league team owners, the ones that set ticket prices in minor league ballparks, don’t pay the salaries of minor league players. MLB owners do that. If every minor league player got a raise to minimum wage, it would not cost as much as that setup man on your favorite team.
Why join a union?
Why not just be thankful for whatever crumbs the owners happen to drop on the ground and scrounge for those?
They should just worship the “job creators” and be glad for that honor.
Crumbs. LOL. It is a gamble to win the lottery and get paid like Brian Harper or Mike Trout or Garret Cole yes. But a gamble they are willing to take. If not, stop playing and get a J-O-B. I am sicknof the whiney crybabies on here.
Exactly.
People who want more than crumbs are “whiney crybabies”.
Good little foot stool.
@josh depending on your trade, i’m going to use mine for this example which is construction. the only reason any non-union gets paid anything close to what i make is because if they want workers they have to pay a comparable wage or no one would work for that contractor. now get rid of construction unions the rate of pay drops to a point where it’s not worth the wear and tear on your body when you can just go work at a gas station.
Does anybody make these players play baseball or is it by choice – what about all the players taken rounds 1-10 who make way more – gimmie a break mlbpa doesn’t care about its minor leaguers – they just want another lockout to try and close loopholes in the old agreement that they made
Players can’t lockout anyone. Only owners can.
The players would hope for a lockout in an effort to put the onus on Ownership. If they strike, the player option for a work stoppage, then the onus is on the MLBPA. Same but different. A strike would allow the owners to look for replacement players. A lockout would prevent that.
GOZU, put down the saki. No one hopes for a play stoppage. Not even the owners that locked out the players.
A strike would NOT allow the owners to look for replacement players. READ THE CBA.
If you can’t make logical arguments, just stop.
I’m confused as to why people think owners can’t simply contract more teams. Don’t union shop companies close factories all the time? Relocate them to China or replace workers with robots? Why can’t MLB contract a team? They can’t delete the jobs, create “new” jobs with a different job title and the hire non union guys to perform the same jobs the let go union guys were doing, but I’m not aware of any Federal law that says they have to provide any jobs in the first place. Free market and all. There is no federal law requiring entertainment companies to provide services. If they want to close 42 more “shops” I don’t think anyone can stop them, law suit or otherwise.
The contracted teams that are suing are doing so on an entirely different premise. Basically MLB threw their antitrust clause weight around and took the business right out from under those management groups. Not the same as deleting jobs from employees.
Do you really think that the players would agree to a CBA that would allow the owners to close down teams?
Look at the recent FORD and GM contracts. They have to maintain a certain amount of jobs, period. They can close plants, but must still employ the same number of union workers. Why? It was in the CBA.
They CAN’T create new jobs with new titles to skirt a CBA and hire non-union employees. That is against federal law.
Yes, MLB can shutter minor league baseball entirely prior to signing a CBA with minor league players. But if there is a minor league baseball after a CBA is signed, they will either have to keep more players on the existing teams or not be able to contract teams.
Can corporations find ways around contracts protecting jobs? Do bears s….?
In the 1980s, my father worked for a major steel corporation and was a union member (United Steel Workers). He was nearing forty years with the same company. Under the contract, if the corporation decided to close a plant permanently, workers with 25 years experience with the corporation could take early retirement and the corporation had to pay those workers the difference between their early retirement and their regular wage until they reached age 63. Awesome deal, except the corporation laid off the workers, “temporarily” shut down the plant (sold off the equipment though) and waited the older employees out. The corporation knew that most, if not all, of the older employees would find their unemployment benefits inadequate and would voluntarily retire under a temporary shutdown, which meant they were not eligible for the buyout. The corporation had one year to reopen the plant or fulfill the contract. Worked like a charm, the old workers retired voluntarily. The plant? Never reopened.
The auto companies are committed by contract to offering union workers a job at a different plant if they close a plant. Sound great, but it is less attractive than it sounds. You’re fifteen years into your job at plant X, you have a mortgage on your house, kids in school, family nearby, blah, blah, blah. Company closes the plant and offers you another position at a plant 1,500 miles away. Do you move and lose everything else in life? When the plant closed, your house dropped significantly in value and the market for houses shrank. Kids don’t want to leave their schools and friends. Many people value their extended families and want them nearby. Move or find another job where you live?
I support the unionization of the minor leaguers, though I think they would be better served by their own union and not the MLBPA, which has done a crappy job of promoting the interests of the average player in my opinion. I just wonder that would the MLB owners just move some of their minor league operations overseas (Mexico, Venezuela, D. R., etc.) where costs are lower and union protections far weaker. American corporations did that in the 70s, 80s, and 90s.
You bring up examples from 40 years ago? Seriously. Read the current Ford and GM CBA’s wth the UAW for how its working today.
Since 2019 not a single job has been lost in the auto industry. In fact, both CBAs are requiring an investment in the US. $6 billion investment in plants in the US and 8500 union jobs for Ford and a similar number for GM.
According to federal labor law, you can only be served by one union at a time. Minor league players are shuttled up and down from the minors to the majors and often taken off the 40 man roster and designated to the minors. It has to be one union representing all professional baseball players because of that movement.
$50,000 per full season paid per player. divide that number by the number of games per level and pay it out as a per-game sum for each player on the team’s roster or IL. The PA can make this happen by willing to split the cost in some way with the owners (i.e. some percentage deduction from each player’s salery to be paid to a fund which pays the players).
Another socialist takeover. MLB just move all training leagues out of the country then.
Exactly, when workers want to make money, it’s “socialist”.
@Redstitch108* 2
Meanwhile, we have mega corporations using socialism to spread lobbyist money to Congress to get favorable deals. We also have many monopolistic industries that are allowed to make a large profit and when competition comes around, the mega corporations just buy them up to keep their market share and grow it further. All the while, crying that workers wages are costing the business too much and they need to outsource to countries with extremely low wages so they can sell that shoe or t-shirt for a 500% mark-up.
The leather industry must be booming the way some of you are loving the taste of boot.
Plenty of career minor leaguers that will be willing to cross a picket line, undrafted college players, indy ball players, and foreign league players (thinking more Mexican League than NPB/KBO) to fill rosters in the event of a work stoppage. Whatever leverage Clark thinks this gives the players union the owners will find a way around it
No they won’t. Minor league players are not going to strike during a season. The owners will be forced to lock them out. During a lockout, they cannot hire replacement players.
American workers have been systematically brainwashed since the 1970s to hate unions — and then they can’t figure out why their wages stagnate, they work longer hours for less money and benefits than European workers, they have no job security, and the wealth gap between the average worker and the tiny fraction of the wealthiest Americans grows every year and is far higher than in any advanced European country.
This ^^^. 100%.
And I am in the group of wealthiest Americans. Those 1%ers people rail against includes me.
Question to those who know: If minor league teams are affiliated with a major league team, but not owned by the major league team, wouldn’t the owners just buy a few minor league teams for the players to play on, then cut off the rest of the teams in order to circumvent the Union? that would mean they’d only have to pay whomever was on the Team-owned roster without worry of a lawsuit for contracting teams in an effort to cut costs.
MLB has already cut 40+ minor league teams. As someone repeatedly posted, the MLB cannot cut anymore teams since the union has been approved by the majority of minor league players. For more info read some messaes at the top of the board.
MLB team owners can own the leagues the minor league teams play in, but are not allowed to own the teams themselves.
Some posters are dreaming that the union days are still here. The unions can’t compete.
that was so yesterday!
Miller is so much better than Budweiser! Wait, what were we talking about?