Pirates general manager Ben Cherington held his season-ending press conference today, broadly discussing several offseason topics with the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette’s Jason Mackey and other reporters. While the Bucs went 62-100 to post their seventh consecutive losing season, Cherington felt some progress was made among the team’s young player, both on the field and in the clubhouse.
This young core is key to the Pirates’ rebuilding strategy, but some veteran help may be added at specific positions. Cherington noted that first base, the starting rotation, and catcher are all areas of need to some degree, though in case of the catcher spot, the GM said “we feel increasingly good about that position, organizationally, certainly. At the major league level, really like the job that Jason Delay and Tyler Heineman did.”
This might count out a new deal with Roberto Perez, though Cherington said the Pirates “are keeping the door open” on Perez’s status. Signed to a one-year, $5MM contract last winter as some veteran reinforcement behind the plate, Perez played in only 21 games before undergoing a hamstring surgery that cost him the rest of the season. This makes it two straight injury-marred seasons for the veteran backstop, and while Perez is a two-time Gold Glover with a strong defensive track record, his checkered recent health situation will certainly lower his free agent price tag, if he lands a guaranteed deal at all.
A lower price, of course, helps the chances of Perez remaining in Pittsburgh, as the payroll is once again a key factor in the Bucs’ offseason decisions. Cherington again reiterated that “I really believe that we have the resources to win and that once we start winning, we’ll be able to sustain that,” and yet until that corner is turned, there doesn’t seem to be any expectation that the Pirates will make any significant expenditures.
Pittsburgh fans have long been critical of the Pirates’ lack of spending, as ownership didn’t much stretch the budget during the Bucs’ last stretch of winning baseball (three straight postseason appearances from 2013-15). The promise of increased spending down the road isn’t exactly welcome to a fanbase impatient for success, but Cherington said his front office is concentrating on the present realities of its rebuild process.
“I don’t believe focusing on payroll is the right thing to focus on in a town like Pittsburgh, in a place where a winning team is not going to be built in a way that is in other places,” Cherington said. “I understand where the question comes from, but the way we wake up every day and do our work, it’s just not the thing that we think about.”
As such, the Pirates won’t be breaking the bank to address their offseason needs, though first base has traditionally been a position where some solid production can be found at a lower price. The same could be true of the rotation, and the Bucs had success in this area last offseason with Jose Quintana’s bounce-back year after signing a one-year, $2MM free agent deal. In terms of a general wishlist, Cherington is hoping to add more strikeouts to the pitching staff, and more runners on base for the lineup as a whole, not just at the first base spot.
Cherington said in August that Derek Shelton would be returning as Pittsburgh’s manager, and on Friday, Cherington added that the coaching staff would also be retained, apart from “considering someone getting an opportunity somewhere else or something like that.” If anything, Cherington hinted that the Bucs might add more personnel to what is already a deep coaching staff.
*sigh*
Hard as it would have been for me to believe this past Spring, I’m beginning to think that the Reds rebuild is going better than the Pirates…..with the Cubs (because they are stressing developing pitchers) doing better than both….and the Brewers are about to embark on a ‘rebuild on the fly’.
But… Theo said you draft hitting a sign pitching.
Theo doesn’t work there anymore.
Miracles always happen when you believe. – Bob Nutting
He gets US
Don’t do something goofy.
To note the obvious…..
Jason Delay and Tyler Heineman have years of control, some upside, and are cheap.
Roberto Perez is what he is – an excellent defensive catcher, a very good handler of pitchers, and a poor hitter. His salary is not cheap, but it’s not expensive either. He’ll probably surface as a back-up catcher or one sharing the job with another catcher for a contending team in 2023.
If it’s true that the Pirates top catching prospects are “offensive catchers” then they may be looking at them as 1B’s / DH types and see if they can develop Delay and or Heineman into a solid ML catcher.
Marlins currently have better options than Stallings. Wonder if the Bucs could get him back. Veteran catcher without the constant injury risk like Perez
The Pirates should sign Jakson Reetz.
Cherington needs to be ready for Priester and Davis.
He will be in September.
Hoping for Heineman to have that breakout year at age 32, eh? Gotta be tough to root for the pirates.
When your a die-hard pirates fan like me hope is your last resort.
There is always the hope of Spring Training.
And the sobering reality of late July
Does he need to have a breakout year to be a backup on a non contending team?
Will guarantee one thing, Henry and Endy won’t both be catchers. Not sure where the other ends up.
Because one or both can’t catch or you can’t have one as a backup once a week or a time share?
If Malcolm Nunez doesn’t get a crack to earn that 1b job out of Spring I’ll be shocked. Why spend money on a premium position with marginal talent when he’s clearly the answer.
Prepare to be shocked. Extra year and super 2 are more important than winning for most teams.
Early call ups aren’t the issue for the club and it’s really not the detremit against the organization. Nutting is. Considering the youth movement and the reluctance to make andujar a full time stop gap I don’t see the harm in bringing him a long with the rest of them when he’s clearly ready and fills every question mark and then some at the position for them.
The harm is losing a year of service time so he will need to be traded a year sooner or not have him for a playoff run when you could have.
I still think it’s such a demand with the way he has played and positional need. It’s not a quick flip position either on a low sign for a buy and sell.
If cruz is sinking and swimming defensively and hayes is learning to better his bat on the fly (I think he is what he is though,) along with the overall depth of infielders in the system coming up having continuity is key to building up this core.
Cherrington has to work with what he’s got, Same with shelton. It’s not like were going to spend 6-8 million on a 1b. That’s on nutting and even attempting to be competitive I don’t ever see that happening through Free Agency.
Nunez is a bat 1st 1b. He’s demonstrated that throughout his Minor League Career. The power has finally caught up with his bat on top of it and I don’t think losing the year is the main argument here vs making an executive decision that he needs more fine tuning defensively and I think that’s even a stretch for a team that trotted out Josh bell for years hoping for the best.
Nutting throws pennies into a fountain hoping for a miracle. Cherington puts the moves in place and Shelton makes the call. It’s really a GM Manager decision at this point and with a strong spring like I expect him to have it’s a really hard argument to make that he doesn’t deserve that job going forward over other options in play currently at the position.
No free agency spending sounds good. They flushed 9 million on Perez and Yoshi. Stick to the guys nobody else wants like Quintana and Vogey.
What’s to know. Take all the Luxury Tax money. Trade all your prospects for peanuts, probably to the Yankees. Business as usual.
More like trade all your veterans for prospects. I haven’t seen any prospects going anywhere. Probably not too concerned about the luxury tax money speaking of peanuts. They will definitely take the revenue sharing money though.
Leave Andujar as DH
.300 30HR 100RBI 75 Doubles
One game a week in LF & 1B
Heck play him at ss or cf even with those numbers.
They need to create a 4A minor league with teams like the Pirates. Don’t belong in the major leagues.
Why they win a third of their games. Couple years they will win half of them.
The Pirates are a ML franchise. Laugh now, while you can.
Not holding my breath. PIT has young talent bubbling up but won’t ever be a real threat unless Nutting opens his wallet.
If MLBTR reports on your team’s off season last, then your team will have had a successful season.
BC’s To Do list this winter:
1. Sign a LHSP to a multi-year deal.
2. Sign a RH power hitting 1B.
3. Sign a couple decent bullpen arms for cheap.
4. Sign Perez to a 1-year deal to bridge gap until Endy and Tank come up and turn Catcher into a position of strength.
How about firing the hitting coach? In 2021, the Pirates ranked 6th in the least number of strikeouts per team. In 2022, they finished 28th in the same category, meaning they struck out at the 3rd highest rate in MLB. No wonder they don’t score runs.
He is easily pleased if he is happy with those 2 catchers. I must have higher standards since catchers like Peña , Kendall, Sanguillen are what I like.
Cherington must have a script that past Bucs GMs have used, dating back to Joe L Brown (uh, other than Syd Thrift). Same baloney. Same confident take in guys who are punch-and-judy hitters, at best, and the old “don’t believe what you saw over 162 games” line that would have you believing that going from 62 wins to 92 isn’t that far off
Old steelworkers here used to say, “Don’t piss down my leg and tell me it’s raining” to such carping
Hey, don’t spend on free agency. (No one wants to come to Baseball Siberia anyway). I heartily agree
Preach about small markets. We’ve heard it all before
And keep telling us the organization likes where they are. Same old, same old
The orioles were in a dismal situation in ‘21. Almost none of the pitching looked good & then 2022 rolled around.
2023 is the year where we’ll know if the Pirates rebuild is complete crap or if they have something started. I’ll reserve judgment til this year.
There are a couple Orioles fans who will be happy to list the differences in the trajectory here. In fact, they point it out often. Look, I agree with you on basis. Problem is, the kids we have seen coming up from the farm remind one of a lot of hype and not the kinds of players who will propel this franchise. But Cherington thinks Bucs fans are simpletons who equate success with fireworks night, pierogi races and a .500 team
Whew! Offseason reports on the Reds and Pirates in consecutive days could lead to serious depression. I feel bad for the writers.
Imagine if the reds nats and pirates weren’t allowed to play each other. They’d all lose 125 games 37- 125
Make it 130 if the Dodgers could avoid losing 5 of the 6 games they played vs the pirates.
They better not have any VanMeter types taking away playing time from prospects next year.
Call it a rebuild or whatever you want this team never has the intention of building a quality major league club. Calling it a rebuild is insulting to the Pirates fans the other teams that are giving them their revenue and anyone else with the ability to add 1 plus 1. Money goes right in the owners pocket and will never change until forced.
Likes what heineman and delay did lmao. These guys wouldn’t be backups on most teams. Guys full of s-it, the perfect mouthpiece for nutting
Cherington talks a good BS, he thinks Buc fans are dumber than dirt.
While he’d never come out and say it, Nutting’s too cheap to put a competitive team on the field and while they’d consider signing Perez again, it will be far cheaper than what he made in 2022
Judge has struck out 7 times in 2 games for the Yankees. So to the guys who say the strike out is a pirate thing. It’s a baseball thing
the Bucs had 6 players that struck out 100+ times
2 players had twice as many strikeouts as hits
Remember when the Pirates were consistently good? It’s getting more difficult. Willie Stargell, Dave Parker, Steroidman aren’t walking through that door any time soon. Develop players and then trade them away for prospects. The Pirates are one of the have nots in baseball. Sad situation but ownership sucks.
As expected, Nutting won’t open his wallet, instead the Bucs will dumpster dive for the cheapest players to fill their major league roster. Both Delay and Heilman wouldn’t be back ups on any club, but will be because they’re cheap, like the owner.
For long time Pirates fans, it will be at least another 2 years before they’re in contention
I’m 67, I may not live long enough to see them in another WS.
It has nothing to do with Nutting’s wallet. Or the wallet of any other existing or potential owner. Want your team to spend, insert a proper financial system like every other major leagues did.
the Athletic did a piece on Nutting last year. After the franchise receives their portion of the luxury tax, it’s all profit for Nutting, so yes indeed it’s about money and his refusal to spend any more than necessary because it might impact his bottom line
Salary cap and floor with a narrow corridor between the 2, you know, like the NFL, NHL& NBA.
Wondering, how it is a 7th consecutive losing season for the Pirates, if they had 82-79 record in 2018?
Crime against baseball for that ballpark and the sports fans of that city not go have a competitive team.
the other, seldom mentioned crime, taxpayers footed the bill for the construction of the ballpark
That’s the big takeaway about the Nutting group I’ve always had. There is no compulsion to build a winning team here as their profit margins continue to bulge. Any civic pride this town once felt for the team….and as an older guy I can tell you there was a great deal—has largely been destroyed. They’ll continue to push this “small market” line to the public but the reality is, you have to feel some sense of athletic competitiveness and some responsibility to community
They feel neither
Guess that’s why comments from Nutting and now Cherington seem so insulting
They’ve provided a team which is extremely difficult to watch for a number of years….but want you to feel good about it
Sheesh
Nutting said in 2013 if attendance increased so would payroll.
Between 2014 and 2016, attendance indeed increased and in 2015, attendance was a franchise record of 2.4 million
By 2017, Nutting ordered then GM Huntington to start dumping high salaried players
Finally after the 2018 season, it was back to the perpetual rebuild again
tiredolddude;
The Pirates ARE a small market team. That is based on the size of the market they play in as well as the average expendable income of people living there. That factors into how much they can sell their local TV-Radio rights for and how much fans are willing to pay to buy tickets to see games. In almost any small market fans will pay to see a wining team (Tampa Bay and Oakland are exceptions).
The issue is not Nutting and money anymore than with any other small market team. The issue is hiring people to run their Baseball Ops, explaining the size of the budget they’ll have, and not interfering in their baseball decisions. Even then it’s a competitive sport, and not all Baseball Ops are going to be winners.
o The Rays, Brewers, Guardians, and now Orioles have found ways to be competitive for 3-5 years runs.
o The A’s sort of get competitive but they stay with many of their players too long and don’t regenerate their team fast enough.
o The Royals, Marlins, and Reds were able win years ago, but the Baseball Ops departments they’ve had since have been awful….consequently, so have their teams.
I’m watching Mr. Cherrington walk a tightrope with Oneil Cruz – seeing his natural abilities but lacking any sort of Baseball IQ and instincts. It’s an old story in pro sports – an athlete has outworldly ability but can’t seem to harness it to play consistently – they just want to do what they do well thinking everyone else is supposed to adjust around them. A lousy team gets a guy like that, the FO and media play him up to the fans, and the Sport Ops people are caught in a pickle…how do they enforce discipline and their coaching methods on the other players when one guy gets to do things his way?
In MLB a successful small market team has to have a “all for one one for all” attitude. I keep harping on the Cruz situation because it can well undermine that rebuild. A rookie bringing in his own coaches and refusing a position change is poison to a small market team. It undermines what the organization is trying to do. The Rays, Brewers, Guardians, and Orioles don’t run their teams that way. In fact – the great Steelers teams were made up of some extremely talented players, but they all fit in working with the coaches to fulfill their responsibilities as per their role with the team.
Samuel, spot on, and indeed, your eloquent reply is exactly the point. The small market “excuse” is really no excuse at all
Thanks, as always
Who hires the player development team?
Ben Cherington with the approval of Bob Nutting. No matter how it’s sliced, the failures of this team are on Nutting’s shoulders
And while the Pirates are indeed a small market team, Nutting’s only goal is maximizing his profit
He wouldn’t care if only a handful of fans attended games, as long as his bottom line isn’t reduced
tiredolddude;
Agreed on that. But try to find an owner that wants to buy a small market baseball team, and will stay hands off. The Royals may have found one….then again, he just fired the Baseball Ops guy…..then again again that may well be for the best. (I suspect Mr. Sherman will be hands off on baseball decisions.)
Mark Cuban has repeatedly tried to buy the Pirates, Nutting won’t sell
I mean why would he?
The franchise is a cash cow for him
Not sure that’s entirely accurate, @TheMan 3. The interview the PG did with him a couple years ago discussed how Cuban had been looked upon as the cavalry for a number of years and by many, many fans, some quite famous
But the article made clear that while he had no interest in buying the Pirates, Nutting would be crazy to sell the team given the amount of profit he was making.
Your points are well taken, Skeptical, and I don’t think any real businessman opts to buy a professional sports team to take a loss or eke by with little profit. That’s not the issue
Samuel and TheMan3 rebutted your points quite well and my first blush response would have echoed both, namely in the windfall a team provides a city—especially businesses around ballparks. This is only magnified when a team is successful. So in an ironic way, Nutting doesn’t need big attendance numbers. Businesses around PNC Park do
Quality of life in livable US cities often takes into account professional ball teams and their facilities, too, as an important sidebar. I’ll say again that there is something to be said in the area of civic pride when a team is successful. And I’ll say again that unlike many business owners, pro sports team owners should necessarily feel a sense of obligation to its city, region and fan base therein
Nutting might as well be our region’s Mr.Potter
I was around for the “City of Champions” era and Pirates owners the Galbreath family and the Steelers, the Rooney’s. I’ve watched what Mario has done with the Pens.
While I can’t speak to exactly how much profit is enough, there’s something to be said about winning financially and on the athletic field.
No one is asking Nutting to bring A-list free agents to town, but his track record here suggests he’s never been interested in finding a nice balance
It is clear to me from these comments that Cherington has drunk the Kool Aid and is part of the problem.
He has some good qualities,like Shelton,but it seems now that the Peter Principle certainly applies to both.
I wonder what he is going to say at the end of next year with marginal improvement
Probably the same yada yada yada
Without the proper instruction these young position players are not going to generally get better until they change teams.
Milwaukee is considered a small market team and they’re contenders every year.
The “ small market “ reasoning has become an old excuse
Milwaukee spends money to put a competitive team on the field which results in attendance well over 2.5 million people at their ballpark
Nutting doesn’t care, management will always use the “small market “ line as an excuse and Pirates fans will eat it up, no questions asked
Mendoza Line 215;
I like Mr. Cherington. He was made the scapegoat in Boston when he had his hands tied on some major baseball decisions. He did build a farm system there that ultimately was essential in the Sox winning a WS. And he did build up the Toronto farm system – the major reason that team has hit a wall is that the pipeline of players coming from his system have primarily been used in trades, now the organization has a large payroll along with young players coming up for substantial raises, a few prospects on the ML roster that aren’t getting playing time, and the pipeline has pretty much dried up.
But the Peter Principle may well apply here. Time will tell. That manager was not a very good choice.
–
For the uninitiated, The Perter Principle is sort of the economic equivalent of Walter shouting: “Donny, you’re out of your element!” to Donny.
It basically means that you will be promoted until you reach a level where you are incompetent.
What is a fair profit for any owner of any athletic team? Despite the expectations of many fans on here, owners are operating a business, not a charity. Forbes estimates the value of the Pirates at 1.3 billion. If I and a group of investors bought the Pirates for that amount, what rate should our return on investment be? If we expect a modest return of 6%, that comes out to $78 million per year. Yes, Nutiing and his fellow investors paid a lot less for the franchise (92 million in 1996 or $174 million in current dollars), but the franchise is now worth 1.3 billion and any new owner would expect a decent return on investment rate.
(Just for the record, I think professional sports teams should be operated as non-profits in the vein of Green Bay Packers, so don’t think I am defending the owners. If the taxpayers pay to build the stadiums, they deserve a seat at the table. We need to stop welfare for the rich.)
Skeptical;
I back owners and their rights to make a profit for the reasons you stated.
I also know that pro sports teams suck an incredible amount of tax money from municipalities. On the other hand, I’m not sure how to put a price on what having professional sports teams do to revitalize an area – and I’m not just talking on game days / nights. I grew up in Cleveland. For decades the downtown area was dangerous and falling apart. I visited a few years after the new baseball park was built, right next to the Cavs basketball arena. Downtown was bustling, buildings were being knocked down and new ones rebuilt. This year I had to go to the Cleveland Clinic for treatment. That area – also a run down area (when Bob Hope grew up doing vaudeville the area around there was one or the great entertainment centers in America. It’s maybe 4-5 miles from downtown). The Clinic is now a small city of it’s own with people (like me) traveling hundreds of miles because the doctors and facilities are so good and so advanced. Stopped by the downtown area. It’s branched out for miles with quality stores, universities, entertainment, and people. All that was done using the ballpark, and basketball arena as an anchor.
Downtown Pittsburgh has been a national secret for decades. I love going there when I’m in that area of the country. I don’t know how much PNC Park and the Steelers Stadium had on the development there, but I’m sure it affected it. I know that an area of DC was revitalized when their new baseball park was built. St. Louis the same. The SF Giants area the same. Milwaukee, Cincinnati and many others.
I see MLB owners trying to invest to build up areas around their ballparks as the Cubs owner has started to do, and the Angels owner tried to do but went about it in a not so legal way.
America – and the world – is sports crazy. Go on You Tube and watch some videos of sports stadiums that have been built around the world, and how they built up areas around them.
Also keep in mind, when municipalities pay to build sporting facilities, they also get into an agreement with teams to be paid back (actually to retire issued city bonds) for every ticket sold to reimburse them for the building and ongoing maintenance costs. And those taxes or whatever you call it are quite substantial. The narrative that the teams are playing for free while the greedy owners are taking money out of municipal budgets that can feed intercity children and give them decent schools while putting that money in the owners pockets are demagoguery – made up by agents and others that want a piece of the action. If you read the articles here and many of the comments, your would assume it is true.
Economies have rippling effects – good and bad. The good effects are knows and “The Velocity Of Money”.
Except that Nutting only paid $1.2 million for the team when he bought out Kevin McClatchy, and his average profit since 2012 is $63 million
Sure, he’s in business to make money, the taxpayers footed the construction costs to PNC Park
It’s time we the fans are giving our rewards
I should add that when McClatchy bought the team, Nutting had invested a percentage of that initial purchase.
correction
Nutting paid $92 million to McClatchy not $1.2 million
John Adams once said basically” don’t let facts get in the way of your preconceived notions.”Truism.
Some people just complain to complain because they can.Truism.
Small market teams are greatly hampered by baseball’s monetary irregularity.The eight large market teams have won the WS 57% of the time since 1991.Small market teams have won 3% of the time.
That is a fact.
However,in the AL,the five small market teams have won seven pennants,or 23%,versus,being 33% of the teams.That is at least somewhat close as the three NL teams have won 0.
Unless extremely lucky,a team needs to have at least two or three superstars to win the WS.That is why the small market teams cannot compete for the ultimate prize with the current salaries of superstars.
What it does not show though is that the well run small market teams can generally be competitive with the best teamsThis has been generally true in this century of four of the eight small market teams.
Based on this sample size the General odds on winning the WS are 250; to 1 on average.That does not,However,give any of them a pass to be a continual losing team.
Mendoza Line 215;
I don’t so much put a value on winning the WS, just getting there.
When one takes stats with a macro view, they often show skewed results. There are now 30 teams in MLB. If we only count winning the WS as an accomplishment, then 29 teams are going to be losers each year. If that were true, most MLB fans wouldn’t be fans of their local team.
The problem with the salary structure and small market teams is not that they can’t get to the WS…..it’s that when they get there – or even near there – many of their players are approaching free agency or about to be in it. They want massive salary increases. Most teams – even some large market teams – don’t generate enough revenue to keep them. Some players get let go, others get traded for multiple prospects. Teams like the 2014-15 Royals collapse after their WS appearance, and it’ll take a minimum of 5 years of building to even consider having a team talented enough to go back.
On the other hand, a large market team can keep it star players if they want. It doesn’t mean they get back to the WS each year, but it does keep enough of a veteran core for that franchise to be competitive.
The smart small market teams – where innovation comes from – have adjusted to that reality. They constantly flood their farm system with quality prospects and invest huge amounts of money to develop and train them to play at the ML level. Being proactive they’ll move their quality players if they can’t extend them for a reasonable amount BEFORE they’re in a walk year – depending on players they have with 3-6 years of control. Those teams are going for ‘sustainable contention’ – knowing that the competition is great, teams can have stars injured or unknowns have great seasons, etc., so all they can control is knocking at the door in the playoffs and being prepared to peak in them.
The fact is that MLB has a greater diversity of championship game teams in its sport over any period of the last 25-30 years than the other professional team sport leagues – and all of those have far more revenue sharing then MLB does.
You nailed the Pirates modus operandi during their semi-recent wild card runs. Local media still plays the Russell Martin homer off of Johnny Cueto uses the game as proof of what a tremendous fan base the Pirates have. Or had
After that “run” we witnessed exactly what you describe. In short order, Cutch, Walker, Cole and most of the stars of the team were gone
The idea was that a rebuild was in the offing
This of course fell into line with the realities of a small market team that does well, falls short and has the conundrum of having to decide between paying big salaries—which is difficult—or re-tooling
I think that while it wasn’t a desired decision, most fans understood what the front office was doing
Where the frustration came in was in then dealing too prospects for questionable veterans in attempts to again make a run at a wild card slot
I know @MendozaLine and I disagree here a bit. The Archer trade along with other smaller deals made fans wonder exactly what the blueprint was, especially after continual “dumpster dives” and a pipeline of players who were not even midrange talents coming through the farm system
We’ve heard endless comments about the re-tooled Pirates farm but after one full season, we can only wonder what Cherington is talking about above
Like TheMan3 has asked, who is in charge of developing personnel, of instructing, of scouting.
If you’re going to use the small market team blueprint for success, it would seem these are integral pieces. And if you watched this past exercise in futility, Cherington’s comments are even more mind-numbing
Samuel- You are correct about the WS but that should be the goal for all players and teams,even in an unforgiving major league world.It is what attracts the best players to the best teams.
Regarding your last paragraph,I take exception in that the small market teams are not competitive for the highest prize.This is not true of any other sport where even the worst teams can turn it around in 2-3 years,
NBA is based on superstars on a five person starting team and they have tended to congregate on one team for the last 15 years.
Hockey continually changes over but there have been haves and have nots based on the competence of the coaching and management staffs.
Football has been dominated by one team who had the GOATS of quarterback and head coach which are the two most important positions.That is an anomaly.
Baseball does have a number of well run middle level teams with large consistent fan bases who have won 40% of the WS over the last 30 years.That is where you get your diversity in WS winners except for the four great Yankee teams.
Tired-Regarding the Archer trade,it was 2018,and they had just taken a complete five game series from the Brewers who I think were leading the division at the time.
As another posted above,what about the 2018 winning record?!
NH said the great thing about Archer was that he had years of control.So what if he gets hurt or is no good.A 3 for 1 trade is dangerous,especially when you are dealing young major league ready players.
The trade went against everything that the modus operandi said to do,and that is why I think that Nutting may have wanted him to do it.
The biggest problem that I had was including Baz as he was a first round draft choice and even with his control problems he was young enough to fix them.
I gave the Pirates kudos for going for it Which with their conservative slant is difficult for them to do.
I think what bothered me most about the Archer trade was that it was an incredible risk taken on a guy who at best, had been up and down. You were essentially mortgaging your immediate future on this type of guy—a pitcher, mind you—who really could only affect the outcome of the race every 5 days, at best
Made no sense
Additionally, I saw Glasnow as a guy with tremendous upside and really in need of someone who could fix his control issues as it was clear that Searage wasn’t up to the task. I still believe Meadows is a good player who had a great year and ran into injuries. I would not be surprised to see him return to being a very good player for the Tigers or someplace else. And yes, placing Baz into the equation was the proverbial slam dunk
Many who defend the trade now have the benefit of hindsight where injuries are concerned, of course. I believe these three guys are the types of players you build your future around and again, trading them to “go for it”—a potential wild card berth—seemed amazingly shortsighted.
I think that any GM has a tough job,but Cherington especially has one.
He seems to be good at drafting and to some extent developing but I wonder how well he can afford to get the best coaching staffs,the ones that the wealthy teams get.
He is working for an owner who will not pay for players unless the team is at least good or very good.
Nutting does not seem to care if they lose 100;games,as they have done for three years in a row.
The problem that I have with Cherington is that he does not acknowledge the weak points of the Pirates and lauds two catchers who are just frankly good AAA depth players.I understand that no amount of lipstick will make a pig good looking,but don’t feed us BS either.
There is a saying “ if it ain’t broke don’t fix it”
But there is also a saying,”if it is broke fix it”.He seems to be at sea regarding the fundamentals or lack thereof of this team.And he was also not smart enough to realize that you do not paint yourself into a corner by giving a manager with the worst % of victories of all time a thumbs up.
There had to be reasons why he was let go in Boston and maybe he just does not see the forest for the trees.
I lost any respect for Cherington when he allowed both Yoshi and Van Meter to hang around late into the season when there were prospects waiting to be called up to the major league club.
Then Shelton’s insistence in playing either regularly when one is a defensive liability and both couldn’t get on base to help the team score runs
Not much to talk about until the Pirates get new owners.
Unfortunately, them spending anything of legit free agents is a pipe dream. On a lighter note though, Mitch Keller turned into a legit pitcher this year. Roansy Contreras is a stud. Johan Oviedo looks very promising and Luis Ortiz, Michael Burrows, and Quinn Priester will all be in AAA. Endy Rodriguez, Henry Davis, Nick Gonzales, and Liover Peguero will be in AAA. At least 6 of those guys are gonna show up on multiple top 100 prospects lists. Cruz’s floor is 30+ homers, 100+ RBIs. Suwinski and Castro look like legit pieces. Hayes can’t possibly hit any worse. It’d be a monumental development failure is the Pirates aren’t least halfway decent by 2024 even with nothing but homegrown talent. There’s too much talent there and starting pitching is starting to look like a real strength. If you can squint, there’s some hope.
Small potatoes…but it’s not their 7th losing season in a row. They were 82-79-0 in 2018.