The Athletics have traded outfielder Cristian Pache to the Phillies in exchange for minor league right-hander Billy Sullivan, per announcements from both teams. The Phillies opened a spot on the 40-man roster by placing first baseman Rhys Hoskins on the 60-day injured list.
Once one of the sport’s top-ranked overall prospects, the now 24-year-old Pache is an elite defender whose bat has yet to develop at the game’s top levels. He’s also out of minor league options and has been leapfrogged on Oakland’s depth chart by offseason trade acquisition Esteury Ruiz, which led manager Mark Kotsay to announce earlier in the week that Pache wouldn’t make the roster and that the front office was exploring potential trades.
They’ve found a match to their liking in Philadelphia, who’ll presumably use Pache as a reserve outfielder and perhaps a righty-swinging complement to left-handed-hitting center fielder Brandon Marsh. Pache is a particularly logical fit for the Phils, given that he can provide a late-game defensive upgrade over either Kyle Schwarber or Nick Castellanos (either by playing a corner himself or by stepping into center and pushing Marsh to a corner).
Pache has always been rated as an excellent defender going back to his early prospect days with Atlanta and that’s held true during his time in the majors as well. He’s already earned +9 Outs Above Average and +4 Defensive Runs Saved in 824 2/3 innings, though Ultimate Zone Rating does have him slightly below average. The major issue has been on offense, where he has struggled mightily. In 332 career plate appearances thus far, he’s hit just .156/.205/.234 for a wRC+ of 26, indicating he’s been 74% worse than the league average hitter. If the Phillies do plan on platooning him with Marsh, that might be the best use of abilities. He’s produced a passable .214/.267/.337 line against lefties for a wRC+ of 73, compared to a dismal .129/.176/.186 showing against righties, wRC+ of 4. These are fairly small sample sizes but there’s perhaps some glimmer of hope there.
For the A’s, they originally acquired Pache from Atlanta just over a year ago as part of the Matt Olson trade. They still have Shea Langeliers, Ryan Cusick and Joey Estes from that deal, but they surely hoped to get more from Pache in 2022 than they eventually did. He struggled enough that they had to send him to the minors for a few months, exhausting his final option year. When they acquired Ruiz and squeezed Pache out of regular action, they decided to pivot and move on.
In exchange for Pache, the A’s will get Sullivan, a right-handed pitcher who turns 24 next month. He’s spent the past two years getting work as a reliever, spending all of last year at Double-A. He tossed 51 innings over 44 appearances at that level with a 4.59 ERA. His 15% walk rate is very concerning, but he also struck out 32.1% of batters faced and got ground balls at a solid 45.5% clip. He’ll head over to a new organization that will undoubtedly be looking to improve that control in order to get those earned runs down.
Transferring Hoskins to the 60-day IL was an inevitable formality after he recently tore his ACL and will require surgery. That will almost certainly result in him missing the entire 2023 season.
Interesting indeed that the a’s obtained very little from the trade with Atlanta … boy those a’s fans are going to be upset … I’d bet that they both decide not to show up to the opener.
What an original joke! Don’t quit your day job if you have one. If you don’t have one, try harder.
They got a catcher and a 1st round pitcher.
It’s interesting AA gave up very little when he made the trade for Josh Donaldson also when still GM of the Jays .
I wonder if the A’s front office will just hang up on AA next time he calls about one of their stars
Yes but he also got very little for a superstars donaldson batista and encarnacion when he decided to hold on to them longer then he should have. He set the jays back years in their rebuilding phase..
What ? AA left after the 2015 season – should he have traded Jose and Edwin that year and not had for alot of younger Jays fan the best post season moment of their home team?
If your talking about Ross and mark should have traded them , thats fair but mark already said in a vacuum they would have liked to start the rebuild when they took over but ownership wanted to remain competitive for another year or two .
Also they were in the playoffs in 2016 – so 2017-2020 3 years of not being very good ( tho in the playoffs in 2020 but I’ll give you throw away season fine ) – missed by 1 game in 21 but a good competitive team
How many teams / fan bases would not be happy with a 3 year re build ? Unless I’m not understanding your point this is not a good take
Those As fan will indeed be pissed. All 12 of them.
If Langeliers and just one of the Cusick, Estes or now Sullivan trio pans out, it will still be an okay trade. It will all hinge on the pitchers really putting it over the top and Oakland probably knew that because Pache was already low on options when they acquired him. I would gather they thought if he could pan out there it would have been a bonus rather than the key element of the trade for them.
However all three of these pitchers got hit rather hard last year and Cusick in particular is the guy I would suspect they were hoping for the most from but he was obliterated multiple stops last year.
Well there you go, struggle and get traded to a contender. It doesn’t get better then that. Good for him.
Yeah for real, he could do wayyy worse, he better get used to the booing because well, philly is philly.
I don’t think the booing is worse in Philly then NY. In NY they boo you even if your a star.
But did they boo Santa Claus and cheer for injuries?
Ah, yes. The old Santa Claus pull. Unoriginality at its finest. Pour this fella another cliché.
Is this Dennis from Always Sunny?
I remember the “Lincecum fix your teeth” sign in the stands during the 2010 playoffs. Classy.
Cohen is a dumb Stooge
Didn’t Dodgers fan beat a Giants fan into a coma?
I didn’t say it was worse than new york, teams from the north east (both New York teams, Boston, Philadelphia) seem to have a larger number of rude fans than teams in the west coast or Middle west. (LA, San Diego, St Louis, Chicago.) In my experience, when they are called out on it they claim they are just “passionate.” Like any other teams fans isn’t? God forbid your MVP has a bad week at the plate . I’m sorry if that sounds harsh but I’m just telling you what I have witnessed and experienced. I’m not saying that any of you guys do that or support doing that. I spent my first 19 years of my life in Newark NJ. And I have spent the rest of my life in northern Missouri and I can say that I find people a lot more friendly and polite when I left New Jersey.
I’ll never understand why teams like the A’s trade for guys without options. It’s one thing to trade for 19 year old high guys who don’t make it but at least you saw potential and that potential can be slowly realized 3-4 years. Trading for AAAA guys who get half a season on the mlb roster to make it, is useless in most cases.
Pache can catch the ball, which cannot be said for all Phillies outfielders. Bumping Jake Cave to the curb doesnt hurt, and no one has ever heard of Billy Sullivan.
This trade has zero impact on Cave. Guthrie, is who it affects. Gurhrie was the right hand hitting back-up cf, on the roster. Cave is a corner outfielder/dh, that bats left handed. Pashe will likely replace Guthrie on the opening day roster. He won’t play much, but will be a late inning defensive replacement ( and pinch runner), when the Phillies are ahead.
Nice post bbh, it looks like Cave, in response to a great ST makes the squad as a 3-4 day a week starter until Harper comes back.
Schwarber/Castellanos will see a lot of time @DH the first couple months…
Maybe Pache gets a start or 2 @tough LH p’s as Long would like for Marsh to get a legit shot @lhp…
Except Pache sucks at running. He covets ground in th OF but he is dumb on the bases.
At least they traded Matt Olson for a Star reliever
Pache was never the main part of thr trade. Langeliers is.
He was the highest-ranked prospect – he wasn’t a throw-in even if the obvious target was Langeliers, despite having so so many young catchers.
A’s GM is the worst of all GMs in baseball. He traded away a good team for almost nothing. I could see if they received back good prospects but instead AAAA players that will amount to NOTHING.
You do realize teams don’t get there prospect rankings from top 100 lists right?
I mean, give it some time, seriously. Harris was barely rated on prospect lists and Strider wasn’t on any top-100 lists from ATL’s system — and they were 1-2 on RoY balloting. There’s a lot of raw talent there (i.e. Royber Salinas, Tarnok, Muller) but it’s need more development. Don’t get hung up on top-100 that really gets it wrong a lot.
Website lists are weak. I outperform them with miniscule time and effort. If you pay attention to gm bs speak, they will be flattered if their farm is highly regarded and will say we disagree when not. Pache hasn’t been a top 100 prospect for years if at all.
All Oakland does is win win win trades no matter what.
Ownership got money on their mind they can never get enough.
Agreed, but “for years” also includes no 2020 MiLB that stunted development league-wide and eschewed scouting reports/prospect lists.
I am not sure development was stunted or at least much. My thoughts were the best prospects going against the best prospects being coached by the best coaches from the entire system wasn’t a awful thing. Guys who didn’t get the invite lost out. People I know in the industry don’t disagree.
They should have been smart enough not to fall for all the fantasy camp news teams reported to them. Read about the camp wonders. A bunch of bs. Kids who never played full season ball having the loudest bat in camp. Pitchers who came from northern schools or multi sport athletes lighting up radar guns and impressing coaches. Yuck
Lol pretty sure Langeliers was the centerpiece of that trade
But that trade doesn’t get done without Pache, They wanted him.
I’m sure that top 100 prospect lists from Keith Law, Baseball America, Fangraphs, and MLB Pipeline are pretty close to the teams’ own evaluations.
The impression I got was Langeliers was the centerpiece and the MLB ready pitcher was more intriguing, putting Pache at 3 out of 4 in a package for 2 years of Olson.
@case: There was no “MLB ready pitcher” in the Olson deal. The A’s got pitchers Ryan Cusick, the Braves 1st draft choice in 2021, and low A arm Joey Estes, as well as Pache and Langeliers. I believe the MLB ready arm you’re thinking of is Kyle Muller. He was part of the return for Sean Murphy. The second pitcher in the Murphy deal is Freddy Tarnok. He’s also close to being MLB ready. He got an inning in relief w/the Braves in 2022 even though he’s been developed as a starter in the minors. The other pitcher in the deal—Royber Salinas—is a bit further away unless the A’s want to rush him up as a pen arm.
Ok, but not sure Pache will have more chances playing in Philly town now. His best opportunities, short lived as they were, one single season, well were with the young A’s…
Philly values him because they have so many bad fielders, especially in the outfield.
Unsure why NYY didn’t make this trade. I still stand by that a Florial-Pache could have been good for both players and both teams
thegreatgoodbye Why? They are both bust former prospects that can’t hit. Not really ‘change of scenery’ guys at this point IMO, just AAAA talents that will end up as depth journeyman for the rest of their careers.
Except Florial would have been cut to make room for Pache.
Is this a joke?
I wonder if Pache can play first?
He is a backup CF. They don’t need a first baseman with Hall, Bohm, JT, Sosa, and now Castellanos there is little need for Pache to do it.
I was being sarcastic.
Pache is the best defensive CF the Phillies have ever had. Literally any other player should move to 1B over him moving from CF.
Ever heard of Gary Maddox?
Pache is way way better than Maddox.
I think you mean Garry.
Or Richie Ashburn!!
Garry Maddux was the best defensive cf in the National League for a number of years. Don’t be silly.
Actually, it is Maddox. But yeah, he was about the best I’ve ever seen, including Blair.
You never saw Ashburn play, Pache is better defensively. He’s really awesome. So weird how Phillies fans are arguing this awesome CF they just got isnt as good as he is. His bat STINKS though!!
@cpdpoet Hi, you know I can read your comments, right? Why would you speak on me and reply to me but not address me in the first person? Weirdo behavior. Be better.
You are like 17 you never watched any of those guys lol
Garry Maddox (why cant any of you Phillies “fans” even spell his name right?) was an iconic, incredible defensive CF. Pache is better than him.
SCR, first and last reply….am GenX born in philly, watched Maddox my entire childhood on tv before cable…..and Richie Ashburn was a family friend and my pop was in TV.
To quantify, both Maddox and Ashburn were considered generational cf talents…
You are a simple troll looking for validation….
If you really wanted to engage in different era conversations, bring up Andruw Jones, otherwise enjoy another mute, until you find anew email…
I grew up an Orioles fan. We had a pretty good center fielder in Paul Blair, who won eight Gold Gloves. Garry Maddox won eight consecutive Gold Gloves with the Phillies. Here’s a popular quote from back in the day . . . . “Two-thirds of the earth is covered by water. The other third is covered by Garry Maddox.” Christian Pache will never win a Gold Glove being a late-inning defensive replacement in the Phillies outfield. The guy will need to hit first!
Was the 70’s though, did he have cigarette after every out?
2/3 of the world is covered by water the other 1/3 covered by Garry Maddox
I’d take slightly less defense for an ounce of offense. Pache’s bat is useless. Marsh is much more valuable.
Trust in K-Long.
Playing 1B isn’t that hard.
Ok, so maybe it’s incredibly hard.
I’ve seen Moneyball though, so I get the joke.
15 mins later
Oakland A’s designate Billy Sullivan for assignment
Would a GoFundMe for the A’s be inappropriate?
A’s made 60 million last year. Betting it all on Vegas.
For an ownership group sanctioned for embezzling revenue sharing funds and exploitation of minor leaguers during the pandemic? I’ll contribute to a GoFundMe for a lawsuit removing MLB’s anti-trust exemptions.
I mean, Langeliers has already made the Olson trade a W, so Pache=Sullivan and with Cusick looking like likely a washout, you wonder what other offers the A’s got for Olson and if it was better than Langeliers, maybe Estes and now maybe Sullivan (altho he’s a reliever so he’ll likely be in MLB this year at some point).
LMAO How delusional do you have to be to believe that Langeliers already made that sorry ass trade a win? You must be reading the stupid takes from the fanboy Pollyannas on AthleticsNation.
LMAO how silly do you have to be to think “player making MLB” is NOT the industry standard for “win” or not? Are you 5 years old?
Are you stupid? Langeliers just made his debut and put up 0.1 WAR with a .261 OBP and you’re already calling it a win. That’s what makes you a delusional Pollyanna A’s fan.
No one says the word “pollyanna” anymore, grandpa, take a seat and maybe learn something from my posts.
You mean learn something like you’re an ageism bigot who thinks spewing insults makes you sound intelligent?
The Olson trade is a wash from Oakland at best. A+ for the Braves. Murphy trade was a D. Chapman trade was an F—–
Chapman trade depends on Hoglund, if he’s good then its a W.
Murphy trade literally just happened, if you judge it right now then you are not doing baseball analysis correctly, that’s on you.
Hoglund – the damaged goods at the time of the trade who is still damaged and only managed 7 IP last year. LMAO good luck with that.
No it’s not. Matt Chapman is one of the better 3B in baseball. They need more than a maybe good pitcher years down the line after an injury and a bunch of triple-a players
Folks in the A’s front office should get canned for the Matt Chapman trade.
Logue, Snead, and Smith were awful at the big league level and Hoglund is looking like damaged goods.
Logue is already gone and Smith and Snead are clearly 4A players.
Meanwhile, Chapman produced 27 Homers for the Blue Jays and a 3.5 Wins Above Replacement stat.
Until the 4 players we got for Chapman provide anything at the Big League level, the A’s got Fleeced and gave Chapman away for 4 spare parts from the Blue Jays.
You are MASSIVELY overrating 2 years of Chapman and he was a 3.5 WAR player last year, but you talk like he’s Mike Trout? Nope. A’s got a decent package for him based off prospect lists and prior milb experience.
Until those 4 players provide anything AT THE MAJOR LEAGUE level for the A’s, then the A’s got nothing in that Matt Chapman trade. They are holding 4 Scratcher tickets and hoping 1 of them will provide a payoff.
Snead, Logue, and smith got their chance and blew it and now appear to be career Triple-A players. Do you still have high hopes for them? Most A’s fans do not. None of those 3 were even ranked in the Blue Jays top 10 prospects lists..
Hoglund was ranked in the Blue Jays top 10 and is really the only hope left to salvage that trade. He is the only one capable to even match the 3.5 WaR that Chapman provided last year.
Compare the WaR stats of the players involved to Grade any trade..
Matt Olson produced a 3.4 Wins Above Replacement stat for the Braves last year, at the Major League level.
Until Langeliers, Cusick, Estes and Pache combine to produce the same WaR stat at the major league level, we have Lost that trade.
Just reaching the Big League is NOT enough to say we Won any trade. Using that logic, then one could argue that trading Josh Donaldson to the Blue Jays for Lawrie, Graveman, Nolin, and Franklin Barreto was also a Win for the A’s. No chance in hell that is the case. Graveman was solid for the us but the other 3 were Busts, meanwhile. Donaldson was the MVP one season and then All Star two more seasons for the Blue Jays.
True comparison is WaR provided at the major league level.
I would argue that the Last trade that the A’s truly won was getting Marcus Semien and Chris Bassitt from the White Sox for Jeff Samardzija. Those 2 produced alot more WaR at the big league level for us than Samardzija produced for Chicago. .
You are delusional because you are arguing against what industry standard is, and instead are positing some arbitrary boundaries based off what YOU think it is. MLB disagrees with YOU. End of day you are crying about 2 years lost to FA when the players coming back give the A’s 7. Your entire post is so invalid I gotta laugh.
Dude, the entire industry has been blasting the A’s trades. I’m an A’s fan and even I can admit that. Every single one of your comments here has been nonsensical.
and you value Prospects performing in the minor leagues instead of what they are providing at the major league level.
the end all be all is WAR contributed at the Major League level, not in the minors.
But fine ……… lets let the other Board Posters chime in on what teams they think won the Chapman and Olson trades.
Yeah Phillies fan here. You can tell from that Garry Maddux thread that this guy is a stupid troll.
And sorry (rational) A’s fan, your front office crapped the bed on these trades.
Its simple Math …..
Josh Donaldson provided the Blue Jays with :
7.4 WaR in 2015
7.3 WaR in 2016
4.7 WaR in 2017
19.4 War in his 3+Seasons with the Blue Jays.
Meanwhile, I don’t even have to look up the WaR provided by the 4 players we got for Donaldson = Brett Lawrie, Kendall Gravemen, Sean Nolin and Franklin Barreto. It is nowhere near what Donaldson provided.
A’s fans are so trained to think of players in terms of ” but We get 7 years of each of these 4 players for only 1 year of Chapman / Olson ” that they lose sight of what is most important, which is production at the major league level.
Most times when you trade Quality for Quantity you are gonna lose that trade.
Braves fan here. Just want to think Beane and Forst again for doing business with us. Keep them trades comin’
I think the recent trades were so bad for the A’s it broke StephCurryRetiresWith8Rings’s brain.
The A’s got burned in all of these trades. End of story. But ownership doesn’t care as long as they don’t have to pay Olson, Chapman, and Murphy their salaries anymore. I’m shocked they took on the Manny Pina contract, lol.
Get Off My Mound
You really should just delete your troll account.
“Until Langeliers, Cusick, Estes and Pache combine to produce the same WaR stat at the major league level’
Nope – what’s the saying? Four quarters doesn’t equal a dollar?
So the Athletics managed to trade Pache, after all.
Actually a huge W not losing him for free.
They got the equivalent of nothing for him. A AA relief pitcher with a walk percentage of 15. Oh boy!
Unless they’re going to only play him in the 8th/9th inning, the guy has to bat sometime, and it’s becoming quite clear his bat won’t play in MLB.
Pache will start occasionally against a tough left handed pitcher. His other value will be as a late inning defensive replacement, and a pinch runner.
My thoughts exactly.
It’s a long shot, but Kevin Long is far and away the best batting coach in MLB.
If he can get Pache to simply meet the ball and hit it up the middle some the man will be come extremely valuable.
So they will only play the weak hitter against a tough pitcher? Let me know how that works out.
He maybe could fit in a platoon role vs lefties, though still horrid hitter. Maybe the Phillies hitting coach can fix him
Well, Kevin Long is the best in the game. If anyone can do it, he can.
Playing in the senior circuit should unlock his bat .
He’ll make for a great Phillie.
What difference does the league make?
With no dh batting him 8th ahead of the pitcher.
If this was 1975 some dumb old-school manager would have him leading off every day. Thank god the great Bill James came along and taught teams that this was not the way.
You’re not buying into this Bill James bs are you Hank?
I don’t get why the A’s just didn’t give him one more year to see if he could figure things out at the plate. I mean, it’s not like they’re trying to win now. If any team could have given Pache a chance, it’s them.
Isn’t he out of options? Dude kinda sucks and not someone you wanna end up DFAing for nothing come June because he can’t hit his weight.
I’m not sure Sullivan counts as much more than “nothing”.
Pache will be passe by July
So the bench will be Stubbs, Harrison, Sosa, Cave and Pache?
Yeah, I guess….
Imagine the rp corps will see a lot more shuffling….
Either way…. So it begins…..
I like this for Philly. Marsh can’t hit lefties, so he can slide into a platoon.
Pache can’t hit lefties or righties. I think Marsh is better than a platoon player.
@Seamajolic it’s makes no difference. I think vandilioff just wanted a reason to say “Senior Circuit”. More of a balanced schedule this year but being in the NL East and having to face Fried, Strider, Sherzer, Verlander, Alcontra, etc more often definitely won’t “unlock his bat”.
Pache couldn’t hit for the Braves, and they are in the “Senior Circuit”.
Surprised no one else got that.
How is a wRC+ of 73 respectable?
Not a fan of any team trading away a local boy.
I agree 100% with you.
In that ballpark he might increase his average to his body weight.
I don’t understand how Christian Pache can’t find a starting job for CF but Myles Straw is apparently worth 3 WAR even though hes probably the worst everyday player in the league outside of Austin Hedges when it comes to hitting. Both should be in Double A right now but for some reason teams will prioritize great defense with awful offense over average defense with average hitting, makes no sense to me
Myles can at least consistently hit over .220 and steal 20 bags hardly gets caught
pache cannot hit .167 consistently and cannot steal more than 3 and gets caught 50% of time.
Myles is far superior to Pache
He’s an exceptional outfielder
I’m not a fan of this trade, as I actually like Guthrie for the Phils. Pache brings nothing to the table. Billy Sullivan isn’t a particularly valuable piece either.
Come on Von…..
Guthrie will be up my mid-May.
He’s better off getting reps in AAA than sitting on the Phillies bench.
If Long can’t do anything with Pache, he’ll be DfA’ed.
Billy Beane seems to be losing on trades, Pache was a mistake to take, and now you get a lesser pitcher who is suspect and may never go beyond AAA.
The A’s trading value system is broken
You can’t call this a loss for Oakland. Pache is not helping them right now. Better to take a flier on potential future reliever. I wouldn’t call this a huge win for Oakland or anything like that, but they did fine here.
Billy Beane stopped making trades years ago.
They are doing fine. Murphy trade was weak. If anything question their player development.
A for PHI. They have yet to find a fix for the reliever so aren’t losing anything. Could have used reliever for a different reclamation project though.
A for OAK. Same thing with the hitting. Sure they can find another defensive outfielder who can either hit better or steal some bags. And they got a nice arm. Like their end better.
I feel so bad for Billy.
And Probably will be traded again sometime soon. Billy was a Phillies fan growing up. He got a non-roster invite, but just didn’t turn out the way he would have liked it to go.
Jarred Kelenic's Beer Can
Surprised the Phillies actually traded away someone for Christian Pache. Could’ve waited a day and just claimed him for free.
Is an undrafted 24 yr old reliever that hasn’t played above AA a real person?
Are you over 24?
What have you accomplished?
Are you a real person?
Here’s a hot take: Michael Lewis should be sued for his fraudulent book/movie “Moneyball” honestly. This is getting ridiculous. We need the A’s to get back to the Walter Haas days.
I liked the movie and loved the book. Movie really over exaggerated and left out things.
Very true. The movie left a lot of things out that made the A’s seem like a minor league team who miraculously won over 100 games and set the all-time winning streak at the time. True, they did the “recreate him in the aggregate” with some players/positions, but they conveniently left out that Eric Chavez and Miguel Tejada were two of the best players at their position at the time, Jermaine Dye, who was in his prime, Mark Ellis who was one of the better rookies in 2002, and three all-star caliber pitchers, one of which won the AL Cy Young that year.
They made the right choice. The real story isn’t as good and hard to explain to audience. We couldn’t afford to keep are stud players because are other stud players were getting expensive via arbitration. So even though we lost all those guys are payroll is going to be the same without them. So we had to go cheap and find undervalued guys to supplement are core of stud players.
Going to the player’s house on Christmas eve was more entertaining than the simple phone calls that happened in real life.
I like how Pete thinks Damon getting 7 million a year or whatever is a massive over pay. I thought he was well worth it. Guess I don’t understand where runs come from.
The A’s haven’t wanted to win since the last time they blew up the team they had with Donaldson & Cespedes. The team should have been sold to someone who really wants to win, not fair to many longtime fans that have hung on and pay some of the bills. They brag about how good Billy ball is, but never tell about the failures. A sad time in Oakland and I really feel for the fans as I used to be one. No more venting.
I understand and am not knocking you.
I don’t see how anyone remotely following the A’s situation can believe they aren’t heading to Las Vegas in the near future.
For over 15 years there are negotiations with the ever-changing politicians. They seem to come to an end. Then like an A’s rebuild it starts again with some sort of study or proposal along with a Mayor or City Council head that says it looks like the A’s will get a new park and stay. A bit after that things get quiet and deadlines to do this and that are missed. It’s happening again. Lucy keeps telling Charlie Brown to step up and kick the ball she’s holding…and he tries…and she lifts the ball up just as his foot is about to make contact.
A’s fans don’t pay most of the bills – and that goes back to when Charlie Finley moved the team there. A’s owners and MLB Commissioners have been patient for 15 years. Enough.
Billy Ball was from the early ’80’s.
I don’t see Pache lasting long. He’s a poor man’s Bully Hamilton and that didn’t work out so well either. With as much training baseball players do all year long from such a young age, they whole “they could develop into a hitter thing” is complete fantasy now. If the knock on you is your bat at draft time, it will be that way your whole career. It’s not glowing to suddenly go from 0-100 because you have major league organizations teaching you. They probably had better private instructors they were paying for before pro ball. Those private instructor make more money teaching the teenagers then they would with a minor league team.
I do think hitters can improve but what is hard to improve is the “double bad” guys.
For example Billy Hamilton had a decent eye at the plate (slightly better than average chase rates) but was below average at making contact and horrendous at power.
Pache is slightly better at power than Hamilton but very bad in both contact and plate discipline (and still below average in power) so that is really a profile that is not really correctable either.
But there is some hope he could improve everything a little, run high babips and is like a 90 wrc+ hitter and 2 war player.more likely he stays a defensive replacement type of guy though.
How about Jarred Kelenic??? I’m on the optimistic side. But I’m also a Mariners fan, so biased.
I think kelenic has a chance because he has plus Power and he did show better K rates in the minors.
Some swing and miss issues only show against mlb pitching (for example you see less extreme spin rate high fastballs or really good sliders in the minors) but I do think kelenic can be a guy who hits 250-260 with a mid 20s K rate and 30 Homer pop.
Is Nick Castellanos your CF? Christian Pache is a true CF and his playing there improves Phillies pitching. The Phillies can afford to sacrifice some offense to improve OF defense. I think Brandon Marsh should be playing LF and Castellanos RF until Bryce Harper returns. Marsh-Pache-Harper will be a good defensive OF. I don’t think the Phillies lose any defense with Kyle Schwarber at 1B. Schwarber is a dedicated hard worker so I think Schwarber’s defense will eventually eclipse Ryse Hoskins’ defense. IMO.
Marsh is a very good CF. He is wasted at the corners. Pache is an excellent CF. Pache cannot hit. Pache will be used off the bench as a late-inning defensive replacement. In those cases, you may see Marsh move over, but in general starting Marsh at CF is a better option because Pache is an automatic out.
Is it true that Christian Pache was ahead of JRod on most Top 100 lists at the time?? If so, that’s bonkers.
You have to consider that Julio was in low A ball back then and pache hadn’t failed in the high minors yet.
By 2021 Julio was already ranked much higher but 2019 was basically his first full year and he was in A ball and 2020 there was no season
I appreciate the help Domingo.
I like it for the Phillies. Pache is never going to hit much but as a platoon guy/defensive replacement he is not bad.
The Phillies OF is horrendous so having a plus defender that you can bring in the 7th with a lead is nice.
There also is still a chance he at least can develope into a semi competitive hitter (say like an 85-90 wrc+ which with his defense would turn him into a 2-2.5 war player) but even if he stays a sub replacement level 70wrc+ hitter he has still utility as a defender/pinch runner
He better get off the interstate…..
Kingery has to be better than this guy.
Kingery is an IF. Definitely not a CF. The days of the Phillies plugging in random scrubs at CF are over thanks to Marsh. Pache will be a solid backup/defensive replacement. He can’t hit a lick though.
Horrendous pitching today
And again. Wow, 18 runs in less than 13 innings.
I hope this experiment is over soon
Can’t hit his way out of a wet paper bag