The Braves will option infielders Vaughn Grissom and Braden Shewmake to Triple-A, reports Mark Bowman of MLB.com. Both had been in line for the Opening Day shortstop job in Atlanta, but it seems that will now go to Orlando Arcia. David O’Brien of The Athletic relays that Arcia will get the starting gig with Ehire Adrianza as the utility infielder. Adrianza is not currently on the 40-man roster. The Braves subsequently announced the moves as part of a larger batch of roster cuts, including outfielders Jordan Luplow, Eli White and right-hander Nick Anderson.
The Braves went into this offseason with a shortstop vacancy for the first time in years, as Dansby Swanson has held down that job since late 2016. Swanson reached free agency this offseason and was considered one of the “Big Four” shortstops, alongside Carlos Correa, Trea Turner and Xander Bogaerts. Despite that robust class of shortstops, Atlanta seemingly had little interest in either re-signing Swanson or going after anyone else. Eventually, the offseason came and went with the club’s big move being the trade for catcher Sean Murphy, who was later extended.
It seemed the club was satisfied with its internal shortstop options, with Grissom and Arcia the favorites for the role. Grissom had made his debut last year when he was just 21 years old, largely filling in at second base for the injured Ozzie Albies. He hit well in his first 156 plate appearances, producing a batting line of .291/.353/.440 for a wRC+ of 121. However, that may have been buoyed by a red hot start, as he hit .347/.398/.558 through September 7 but just .174/.264/.196 after.
Nonetheless, it was an encouraging start for such a young player and the club seemed to be a big believer in his abilities. Though he largely played second in his MLB debut, he was a shortstop in the minors. But that didn’t mean moving back to the other side of the bag was an obvious choice, as prospect evaluators had long raised questions about his ability to stick at short. It seems the club decided it was worth pursuing regardless of those concerns, as they tasked coach Ron Washington with working on Grissom’s shortstop defense this offseason. President of baseball operations Alex Anthopoulos discussed the situation in January, after Swanson had signed with the Cubs.
“I can see how the scouting community might have questions about Vaughn. I had questions about Vaughn when I first saw him,” Anthopoulos said (link via Justin Toscano of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution). “And I’ve been wrong plenty of times. The difference is we have a guy in Ron Washington who’s unbelievable with this stuff. He wouldn’t just say something to say it. … And, look, we don’t know how Vaughn’s going to hit. He’s got to earn the job. Orlando Arcia can do it, too. But Wash really believes in Vaughn. We believe in Vaughn, too, but we’re going to go with who we think the expert in that area is, and I don’t know anybody better in the game than Ron.”
For most of the winter, it seemed it would be a two-horse race for the job between Grissom and Arcia, but there was a late charge from Shewmake. It was reported just yesterday that Shewmake’s hot spring was making things interesting. His prospect profile was essentially the inverse of Grissom’s, as his glovework is graded much stronger than his bat. But he hit .323/.382/.452 in spring action and seemed to give himself some momentum to take the job.
However, it now seems that neither of the youngsters will get the job, at least here at the end of spring. With Grissom and Shewmake both getting optioned today, it seems they’ve decided to go with the veteran in Arcia. Though he is more established, with 642 games of major league experience, there’s still risk with the 28-year-old. He’s coming off a fairly solid season as the club’s utility infielder, hitting .244/.316/.416 for a wRC+ of 104. However, the rest of his work at the plate is less impressive, as he had hit .242/.293/.363 coming into the year for a wRC+ of 70. He also hasn’t had a full-time shortstop gig since 2019, when defensive metrics gave him poor reviews and he was pushed into a utility role over the past three years.
This is merely a temporary move and the club could quickly call up Grissom or Shewmake early on in the season. However, it’s still a surprising result given the club’s recent history. They’ve shown a strong willingness to be aggressive with their young players, with both Grissom and Michael Harris II skipping Triple-A last year, going straight from Double-A to the bigs. The club then avoided free agents all winter, seeming to have little interest in either the marquee players or even a modest deal for someone like Elvis Andrus. It seems they’ve decided Grissom and Shewmake need more time and are now left with Arcia as their top option at short, at least for the time being.
The move could have service time implications for the younger players, as Shewmake’s clock has yet to start ticking and Grissom has a tally of 57 days. Whether either of them can reach the one-year mark this season will depend upon how long they eventually spend in the minors. It’s possible to earn a full year of service time even while spending time in the minors if a youngster finishes in the top two of Rookie of the Year balloting, but they also have to appear at least two preseason Top 100 prospect lists at Baseball America, ESPN or MLB Pipeline. Neither Grissom or Shewmake are on any of those three lists at the moment.
With Arcia securing the starting gig, Adrianza will apparently need to be added to the roster to take the backup infield job. He hit just .175/.264/.206 last year but is capable of playing any position other than catcher.
Turning to the other moves, Luplow and White were both in contention for a job backing up the starting outfield trio of Ronald Acuña Jr., Eddie Rosario and Harris. They seem to have been bumped out of that contest, at least for Opening Day. That perhaps will allow Sam Hilliard and Kevin Pillar to secure jobs on the bench. Nick Anderson was in the running for a bullpen job but will start the season in the minors.
Atlanta will need to make some roster moves in the wake of all this, but they may have already gotten a head start on that. Neither of Adrianza or Pillar are on the roster and it looks like the fifth starter job will go to one of Dylan Dodd or Jared Shuster, with neither of them being on the roster either. However, they recently opened a couple of spots when they lost Dennis Santana on waivers to the Twins and outrighted Jackson Stephens. They can also open a couple more by transferring Huascar Ynoa and Tyler Matzek to the 60-day IL, with both pitchers likely out for the season due to Tommy John surgery.
Exactly what I was thinking. Great minds think alike
Buuba ho tep
DOUBLE WOW WOWEE
Bart Harley Jarvis
Sweet fancy Moses!
I’m not sure which one of us is shocked the most
I took was thinking WOW.
Not surprising that one of the pair got optioned, but no way I expected both of them to be sent down.
Do people still view the decision to sign no SS as the right move for the Braves?
Now the guy all of you were banking on replacing Swanson isn’t even on the roster to start the season. That says a lot.
Arcia and whichever bums turn it is in our corner outfield spot now gives us 2 automatic outs in our lineup every night.
I hope everyone is looking forward to this year. Braves fans… remember this is what you all wanted. Don’t cry when the team struggles and wonder why. I told you all countless times the Braves are unwilling to fill their gaps. I wish they would but they won’t. The rest of you have 100% backed their choices to neglect glaring holes so I don’t want anyone upset about Arcia or the corner outfielder we have when they’re hitting .200
I can’t believe Liberty hasn’t hired you as GM. You clearly know more than both AA and the fans
Everyone I seen wanted Swanson back. Most fans don’t care about money and luxury tax.
Everyone wanted Swanson back on a reasonable deal. Smart fans know that money and taxes matter in the long run
Word is leaking that the Braves are optioning Grissom down until June 10th just to get another year of control for him.
Lmao…. This is the team you all think is trying to win now huh? Cut the teams legs out with a worse option for 2.5 months and hope things are still within reach by the time we can play our best guys.
Nevermind the fact Grissom shouldn’t be the best option, but even now that he is the Braves won’t use him.
This organization is a joke. We’re not in rebuild mode where the extra year of control is critical. We’re in win now mode. Braves (and it’s fans on this forum) really can’t seem to grasp the simple difference between the two.
Braves are not reckless with their spending and only look for hometown discounts. They will go with what they got and still do well, but they will miss Swanson’s bat and his play in the field for sure. .
@MJ, Arcia is a career .243 hitter opposed to Swanson whose a .255 career hitter. Doesn’t seem like that much more of an “automatic out”.
Yeah if you ignore walks, XBH, and everything else. Arcia’s 26% below the league avg. offensively for his career.
Imagine the mental gymnastics it requires to post Arcia’s and Swanson’s career averages and act like you made a good point like that other guy did.
This is the type of stuff I deal with on a regular basis from posters on this site.
@MJ-2, So u prefer Swanson had a .329 OBP compares to Arcia’s .316 last season. And .321 to .295 for career. Yes Swanson is the better batter. But the drop-off is not as extreme as being portrayed. Especially for the amount of $ the Braves saved relative to how expensive SS has become in free agency.
He’s hitting .379 this spring with 2 doubles and 6 RBI? They sending him to AAA because his defense isn’t ready? Because his bat clearly is?
Sid Bream Speed Demon
What the actual eff? Grissom had three hits today and multiple smooth plays on D, Shewmake has hit all spring. Oy.
They’ll get a full year of control after about 2 months. They clearly weren’t sold on the D and want him to get everyday reps.
I suspect he’ll be up sooner if they need the offensive jolt though.
Yep Braves or worried about the tournament. Can care less about the meaningless regular season. More player control the better.
“They’ll get a full year of control after about 2 months.”
Seems like an odd move for a team that loves to lock up talent with extensions. Wonder if they approached him with an offer and it wasn’t satisfactory for Grissom or something.
No one’s saying Grissom and Shewmake aren’t better than their alternatives, but not several wins better.
?????? Grissom and shewmake both are have MUCH better spring training then Arcia. This move literally makes no sense. Wow.
It makes cents.
It’s about service time. There was an experiment done on children decades ago. People placed a piece of candy in front of a kid and told the kid you can have this piece now or two pieces if you wait 15 minutes. Decades later they followed up with the kids. Those who waited for the second piece were far more successful in life. This is a long term decision and not one to fill the immediate need.
@SocoComfort With Grissom it cant be service time , His time has already started. It could be with Shewmake BUT the players must not care that much or the PA would have already addressed it.
It could still be about service time with Grissom. Now that he’s back in AAA, his clock is paused until he gets back to MLB.
I’m at a loss.
Curly Was The Smart Stooge
I hope AA has something other than an armpit up his sleeve. WTH?
I really can’t believe they are going to go with Arcia at SS.
What am I missing here? That seems nuts right?
I don’t get this either
ST batting and pitching statistics have nothing at all to do with what the players, manager and coaches are working on. The same reason minor league stats are misleading.
A good chance both will be up well before mid-season unless Arcia is playing extremely well.
I don’t really care about ST stats. Grissom looked capable last year with the bat in his debut. I know the glove is shaky though. Arcia is a low ceiling player, just seems weird to want that over the Grissom upside. Witt Jr has awful defense at SS but he’ll probably get a full season at the spot again to see what he can do. Why not do the same for Grissom?
Only reason I don’t care for the Witt Jr comp is where the franchises are at within their own division/season aspirations. Regardless, this move makes next to 0 sense.
KC will be battling for last. The Braves will be battling for first. That’s why they won’t do the same for Grissom.
I’m sure they would if Grissom was a member of the Royals. But he is not. Different franchises have different rules for their prospects and use them in different ways. I’m not saying any of them are right or any of them are wrong, they are just different.
Well that and Witt Jr was a MUCH better prospect than Grissom. Witt was a top 5 prospect in the game and Grissom has never even been a top 100.
Minor league stats are only misleading if they’re not adjusted for league, level, and park. If they’re adjusted for all of these factors then they are indeed very meaningful. On the other hand spring training stats can be misleading and take place over too small of a sample size to have much significance.
Minor league stats are misleading because pitchers are working on throwing types of pitches that are not their best as they’re working to develop those pitches. Batters may be working on bunting; hitting balls through holes in the infield; getting the ball in the air with power, pulling pitches; using inside-out swings; hitting to the opposite field and even just making contact on certain pitches they have trouble with. Fielders may be trying to play new positions to either be moved there or to become more of a utility player to enhance their value; or to clean up shortcomings at their primary position. Baserunner’s may be asked to try to steal more bases to learn how to do it; or the coaches may be sending them to take extra bases on a hit in order to become more aggressive.
This is what development is about – and there is no spreadsheet or stats available that someone not working in an organizations FO will be able to put into perspective.
Some of the above applies to what certain players are doing at the major league level as well working with the coaching staff. This is why overall year-long stats are so deceiving. Most MLB FO’s have detailed stats and they know the program the coaching staff is putting each player on. The objective is to have players peaking by the stretch run, and if they’re bogged down during the year the FO will bring in others that they can hopefully be made more productive to fill a role on the team by August-September.
Generalized stats are good for arguing cases in salary negotiations and arbitration. Managers and coaches are in the business of making players better, winning more games, hopefully getting in the playoffs and going deep in them. They’re not concerned about players future salaries.
Pretty good take Samuel, Braves sending Grissom down to work on his defense more. If he can play the position well in the minors for a couple of months they call him up. If he can’t it was the right decision to send him down anyway.
hey steamer, can I ask where you came up with your username?
Sid Bream Speed Demon
I better be reading that the Braves just traded for Tim Anderson very soon.
The perfect guy to replace a Gold Glove SS.
Sid Bream Speed Demon
He wouldn’t be replacing a gold glove (lol, imagine being impressed by GG’s in 2023 like a 9 year old) SS, he would replace Arcia.
How do you know he is not a 9 year old? For that matter, what is wrong with being a 9 year old? We have all been there at some point.
Not if we’re only 8
Sid Bream Speed Demon
Lol, ok white knight.
Sid Bream Speed Demon;
How many weeks have you been following MLB?
Tim Anderson is as bad a SS as I’ve seen watching MLB for over 60 years.
He belongs on an undisciplined team like the White Sox – where he’s a leader. The Braves have been stressing fundamental defensive play under AA, Snitker, and Ron Washington. Next to the C, the SS is the most important defensive position on a team. Anyone that follows the sport knows that Tim Anderson is the last guy AA, Snitker, or Wash want playing SS for the Braves.
Post something of value, kid.
Why would you want Tim Anderson? He’s a tool and his defense sucks.
Sid Bream Speed Demon
What makes him a tool?
His attitude and the hole Jackie Robinson drama. He definitely doesn’t fit in with the Braves.
Yes, Josh Donaldson had nothing to do with that Jackie saga. All on Tim. Josh is a pure soul.
Anderson showed his true self. Donaldson is irrelevant to this as he’s not the player being discussed.
So Donaldson issuing a statement apologizing for the “misunderstanding”, as well as getting a 1-game suspension had no relevance on the Jackie saga? Wouldn’t be the first time Donaldson overstepped.
If you don’t go woke, you go broke.
Bart Harley Jarvis
So you poke with a joke?
Anderson started comparing himself to Jackie Robinson long before Donaldson said a word. That was the whole reason for Donaldson saying stuff. Race aside. he is an arrogant SOB that runs off at the mouth far ore than he needs to.
He apologized because he was forced to do it. Anderson started all of it by being a moron.
Guess Grissom can’t play shortstop as many scouts acknowledged
He made some pretty good plays today at SS. Other than one egregious error on a double play he’s been fine.
Superstar Prospect Wander Javier
I think I’m trusting scouts before I trust your “eye test” on a handful of plays.
Well crap. I was hoping you’d hire me to be the GM of your MLB team.
Yeah. it’s almost like skipping a couple levels/years of development might not produce the best product. Who knew? Roberto Osuna & Miguel Castro certainly did.
Service time shenanigans
Grissom was up fort the last 2 months of the season. So I don’t think that’s a factor.
Man, you know every win counts, so this decision is just perplexing. Signs point to service time concerns here, otherwise you start the guys that earned it. Not that Arica is horrible, but when you have better options you have to put those guys on the field from the start. Was kinda rooting for Shewmake!
Arcia is a solid but DEFINITELY NOT a spectacular defensive SS who is about league average offensively. There’s questions re Grissom’s defense at SS and there’s questions re Shewmake’s offense. As mentioned by a couple of other posters, EVERY win matters. With that in mind it looks like the team went with the more finished product over the potentially (probable) better offensive but worse defensive option (Grissom). At least to start the season this makes (some) logical sense.
Shenanigans? For a guy that is not even a top 100 prospect? I think you might be stretching the imagination just a bit.
He is no longer rookie eligible, so he can not appear on prospect lists. I have no doubt he would be ranked very high on top prospect lists if this were not the case after last season. He was an 11th round pick who was only in the minors one year going into last year and then immediately lost eligibility
Maybe it’s less the best player and more the best defense. They’ll be fine with a quality glove and mediocre bat at short. And Arcia’s upside is greater than that.
Anyone remember Chipper Jones?
Nope. Never heard of Chipper Jones. Did he play for the Braves?
I think he was a golfer, earned his nickname by being good with his wedges?
He debuted for the Braves in the 1990s and retired around 10 years ago.
Did he have more than 4000 ABs?
Sid Bream Speed Demon
I thought that was Jeff Francoer.
Nope, Ryan Klesko.
You’re all wrong, it was Mark Lemke
Keith Lockhart, the gritty, hard-nosed player with a lot of heart.
Are you suggesting the Chippy Jones person may come back and play SS for the Braves? Seems like a long shot.
I guess the Braves don’t really want to win. Adrianza lmao
And their FO, manager, and coaches have no idea what they’re doing….
Just look at their record.
They want to manipulate service time with Shewmake. Adrianza couldn’t hit water if he fell out a boat.
I could see if one of them was sent down, but both? The only thing that would make sense if there is a trade on the horizon. Arcia is fine but Adrianza over both Grissom and Shewmake makes no sense to me.
I thought for sure they’d cut Adrianza loose since he’s not in the 40-man, and he’s not worth a corresponding move. You will NEVER get anything out of him at the plate – he’s the ultimate poster child for banjo hitters. Arcia isn’t the worst, but I guarantee you he wouldn’t be the starting SS for any other major league team.
AA do Something Predictable Challenge: Impossible
Motor City Beach Bum
The Braves are having an interesting spring training. Lots of surprises. This one is certainly more puzzling than the recent pitching decision.
Maybe they’re gonna trade for Swanson?
A Swanson’s TV dinner.
Curly Was The Smart Stooge
TV dinner is no good, they freeze at the plate…
Okay I’m just lost right now. I thought for sure grissom had it. Okay I was wrong. If arcia is the starter, cool let him do his thing. But grissom or shewmake would be a better bench replacement than adrianza. Either a trade is coming soon or something. This is not a good move from the braves strictly because they kept no one in the loop for this. Even the braves beat writer wrote a collum saying he thought the starting gig would go to shewmake, and tons of articles from other people saying it was grissoms job to lose. Both shewmake and grissom need to play everyday so one should have been in the majors and the other in the minors, now they will be competing against each other for triple a with both getting limited playing time due to the other. I don’t like this plan at shortstop for the braves. Arcia would be a perfect utility guy to complement one of the young bucks, but now it’s him and adrianza? I’m so confused. They could have even signed iglesias or another stop gap free agent if this was the route they were going to take. Wth man!
I wrote the other day that the season is about to start and lots of surprises are coming.
Every offseason the media leads fans into believing things about the coming season regarding teams and players. And every season by mid-May / early-June so many of those things are so wrong.
Stick around and watch. Highly entertaining.
Definitely going to stick around, even if the braves went 0-162. I’m a braves fan ride or die, but this? This is beyond confusing and I hope arcia holds his own and the kids prove they belong in the majors. At the same time though if this is due to service time I think that is a sad way to run a baseball club and I hope this turns out better than me and many are others are thinking it might turn out to be. We could be set up for greatness, or utter failure. I don’t see any in between here. I hope for the best though. I guess this is why I’m not a manager or gm of a baseball club because I have no idea what’s going on behind the scenes.
It’s tough to see why Arcia was given the starting job, but I get the optioning of Grissom and Shewmake if Arcia will be the SS. They probably are looking to get them more consistent ABs, and they see the minors as the path to do so.
That’s the thing though, how are they both supposed to get significant playing time when one or the other will be taking reps from the other? One should be in the majors, the other in the minors, but both being in triple a means that they won’t always be on the field every single night, unless one plays ss and the other a new position or dh. But why do all this and say they are competing for ss when one or the other won’t get significant reps at ss by both being in triple a? Like I said I’m just super confused at this point. Hope all my doubts are put to rest though.
They could be thinking platoon. I’m not saying I agree with the move, just trying to somewhat rationalize it. Snit tends to lean heavily on his starters, meaning Arcia will see the bulk of the time, for whatever reason they chose him. I don’t know if however many games at AAA is better than sporadic playing time in the majors, and the chance to work with Wash.
FWIW, I agree with you though, and it’s what I would’ve done if I had a say. But I don’t.
Very doubtful they’re looking at a platoon. If defensive improvement is the goal, spending half the time on the bench doesn’t help Grissom. Shewmake would most likely start at second full time with Grissom at SS full time.
DOB said Grissom will play short and Shewmake will play 2nd at AAA. But honestly I have no clue what they’re doing.
Well now I’m completely confused. Lol. Shewmake has always been seen as the guy with the glove for SS if the bat plays, and Grissom the opposite. I’d think if they were going to move someone it’d be Grissom to possibly prep him for a UT role ala Chris Taylor.
The Braves are not obligated to keep anyone “in the loop”
Yes and no. If it works out, yeah, they don’t have to keep anyone “in the loop”. If it doesn’t, you can best believe the media and fans will have questions, though. Typically the more a club dodges those, the worse the scrutiny becomes because that’s when reasons start becoming invented.
I never said they were obligated to do anything. I understand keeping trades and fa moves under the radar, but to keep things this unknown when it comes to players already on the roster, in the middle of competition for the shortstop job should not have been so hidden. Snit even said just the other day the competition was between grissom and shewmake for the starting shortstop job. Doing this completely negates that and shows that not only did he lie about the competition for shortstop, but sends the media and fans alike into a frenzy, and personally to me that’s not a good look. But then again this is why I’m on mlbtr and not in a front office somewhere. I’m confused as all get out and I personally don’t like the outcome but that’s not for me to decide.
I think Braves66 was replying to me, Braves_Saints_Celts. I didn’t get the impression you were saying they were obligated, and Braves66 reply shows to me. And that’s fine because I disagree with Braves66 because sometimes a team is obligated to explain itself to an extent.
Braves_saints_celts, You say Grissom or Shewmake would be a better bench option than Adrianza, but later say they need to play everyday. That’s exactly why neither is a good option as a bench piece.
Teams, especially ones with WS aspirations, just can’t afford a bad fielding SS. Like catcher, and a lesser extent, CF, it’s better to have a light-hitting, good glove guy, than a better hitter with a bad glove. The fact that the Braves made this move indicates they think neither Grissom, nor Shewmake can cut it defensively right now.
There’s no reason why both can’t play everyday at AAA. If they aren’t good defensively at SS, it would be good to see how they do at 2B or 3B. The MiLs are about learning, and the MLs are about producing. The Braves must feel like neither can produce with the glove, and need further development.
As to Iglesias, his defense has fallen off a cliff. While he used to be a very good defensive SS, over the last couple years he’s been ranked the worst in all of MLB per OAA.
This move doesn’t necessarily mean the Braves don’t think Shewmake can’t “cut it defensively.” Grissom has the defensive issues. The Braves FO probably doesn’t trust Shemake’s bat. He’s been a pretty bad hitter in the minors so far, but he ranks as the best defensive SS in the system.
You’re probably right. I shouldn’t have said the Braves think Shewmake can’t cut it defensively. What I should have said is the Braves probably think he isn’t ready to hold down a key everyday ML job, and needs a little more development. But it also could be what you say, that they like his glove, but the bat just isn’t ready.
Maybe an attitude adjustment.
Snit and AA know what they are doing. It would sure be cool to see behind the curtain though…
Imaging giving a grossly overrated Shortstop with 1 good season to his name- *coincidentally* his walk year- and a career .255/.321/.417/ 95 OPS+ a mega contract and then watch him fall on his face in Spring Training. Well, the Cubs don’t have to imagine.
They needed a replacement albatross contract after dumping Heyward.
Cue Heyward’s breakout in Doyer blue for minimum investment, alongside BFF Freddie.
They’re reunited and it feels so good.
Hopefully he’s working on something in Spring that he’ll ditch in the regular season, but as a fan of a team with many an albatross signing over the years I feel your angst.
Ozuna and Rosario just knocked on the door looking for their checks.
Any Braves fan would love to see Dansby have a awful ST like this cause he’s the worst when he’s slumping but then can carry a team for 2 months. Then he will be the worst again…..def not worth 7/170 that’s for sure. Great move by AA
Right now Dansby is hitting .071 with an OPS of .342
That means he’s due to hit .700 for a month and avg out around .250
Trade announcement incoming, right??
I wonder if they’re sending Grissom down to work out in LF, and they’re parking Shewmake to delay his clock. Arcia is a steady player with a low ceiling, but they can put him in the #9 hole and just look to him for defense.
That would make a lot of sense and hopefully so…but wouldn’t they have just been doing that all ST anyways if that was an option?
Maybe they were hoping Grissom would blossom at SS, but decided he hadn’t? Pure speculation on my part.
I would assume Shewmake’s improvement with the bat would be why it wasn’t the plan coming in to ST. Shewmake’s defense is pro ready and Grissom’s bat is pro ready. In the short term, even though it’s frustrating and none of us like it, another few weeks to work on their perceived weaknesses isn’t the worst idea. Who knows, maybe the plan will be for Grissom to move to LF because he bat plays well for the corner outfield.
Arcia isn’t good enough with the glove to play in spite of his bat. This move makes no sense to me on any level.
We really don’t know how good Arcia is defensively at SS. He’s only played 10 games there in the last two years. Maybe putting him there full-time will help him settle in.
The Braves could put Rafael Belliard at short and still have the best lineup in the NL. Their lineup is ridiculous.
Just looked at his numbers. Was having a nice spring too. What the.
I really like Grissom, I can’t imagine starting a guy with a lifetime .295 OBP over a rising young player, very baffling
Wow, so now many are questioning the Grissom move when a few months back some were complaining about not resigning Dansby. Someone said it, if they wait they get a full year of control it’s part of the business. If the combo of Arcia/Andrianza doesn’t pan out they call a dude back up. RELAX.
But meanwhile they hurt the confidence of both players that did everything right to win the job. SMFH!
There’s no crying in baseball
Braves4410, If they’re that fragile something else will come along soon enough to hurt their confidence. I’ve heard multiple guys talk about being sent down, and most say it just motivated them to work harder.
Mike Krukow was one who shared his experience of being sent down. He said, first it was a shock, because once he’d been promoted he thought he was there to stay. But then he realized he need to work harder, to not only get back to the majors, but also to stay there.
Freddie definitely cried when he lost his legacy and got less $.
Yeah but he’s better than both up and comers and is a steady player. Even with tears in his eyes.
This has to be service time manipulation. There’s no other explanation for this move other than getting that extra year.
No other explanation other than the Braves thinking neither is ready to hold down the position of SS for a ML team with WS hopes, and need more development time.
The only one I’m sort of surprised about is Anderson. I guess no one likes Anderson…
I like him, but the Braves must feel he needs more work to tighten up his fb command. Not surprising that he’s rusty after his injury woes the last couple of years. Having an option probably didn’t help him stay on the 26 man either. Too easy to send him down for depth purposes.
Backup Catcher to the Backup Catcher
Anderson and Grissom to Bucs for Reynolds. Dynamite DP combo for the Bucs (O’Neill and Grissom) who could be in the Steel City for the next decade. Bucs have done a nice job with SP other teams didn’t want (Quintana, Tyler Anderson) so maybe Ian is next?
Reynolds becomes our everyday LF. Rosario best suited for reserve role and/or DH duties.
Yeah, the Pirates will trade their best player for your garbage.
The Pirates number one prospect is a 2B so the bucs may not need Grissom. And if you think Grissom and (i assume Ian) Anderson get you Reynolds straight up you’re crazy
AA says sign that early extension or off to the minors you go.
Atlanta wit blatant service time manipulation…shameful!! As if they’re not saving enough money on those horrible contracts they coerced Acuna and Albies to sign…
Blatant? No. Coerced? no again.
Acuna will make more before he turns 30 than most mlb players make in a lifetime and still have a mega contract if he ever starts hitting again. Albies same thing if he decides to not get hirt anymore. I love them both but the structure of the Braves gives them more than if they paid them league minimum for 6 years…. And don’t forget no one held a gun to their head during signing time. They are both fine with it.
Arcia has played like crap this spring. Both Shewmake and Grissom have played better
And by play, do you mean offensively or defensively, or both? Grissom’s defense has been bad, Shewmake’s better. I’d venture to say Grissom’s defense is worse than Arcia’s offense. The difference is that Arcia doesn’t have options (other 2 do) and he has a higher floor with a career of decent defense and sporadic offense. This early on, they’re looking for high-floor, not high-ceiling. Wouldn’t be surprised to see Grissom getting reps in LF (Rosario FA after this season; Ozuna could be expendable if bad enough/Grissom good enough).
This is just my take, and could be way off.
This is about roster spots for the grueling schedule the first month of the season. Rather than have a ton of days off, the Braves play almost every single day. It’s a rarity. They were going to keep Arcia and Adrianza both even if they kept Grissom or Shewmake up. Now, they will just roster those two and hope they don’t implode for the first month, and use the saved space for an extra pitcher.
This is especially needed given that they will really only have two veteran starters ready to work normal early season innings. They will probably try to limit innings for Strider and Wright more early on than they would a typical starter (Strider had big uptick in innings last year and Wright with the shoulder and delayed start). They will probably try to limit ‘third-time through the lineup’ innings for Shuster and/or Dodd as well.
So, this is less about Grissom or Shewmake and more about the overall 162-game picture that is impacted by a heavy front loaded schedule.
Holy cows they have ALOT…….TONS……of belief in this Ron Washington fella!
Wash isn’t a chef — turning chicken s*** into chicken salad. Guy spent 3 weeks in NoLA putting lipstick on a pig. Let’s look for another bag to put our marbles into.
Arcia is a free agent at the end of the year, and could possibly be a candidate to be DFA’d if he doesn’t perform. That’s the only logic I can think of with this decision.
Part of this could be around Arcia’s options or lack thereof. They always intended to keep him on the roster as he can back up multiple positions. This could also be an opportunity for Arcia to solidify himself in this role – his first opportunity since 2019 when he was a very highly regarded prospect.
Add to this the opportunity for both Grissom and Schewmake to get more AAA seasoning in both the field and in the batters’ box. It makes this decision less shocking and likely the one they always intended to make.
If Arcia fails and Grissom and Schewmake force their way up, the Braves can let Adrianza go and relegate Arcia.
I mostly agree. Teams say they’ll have a competition at times, but they almost almost always have a preferred candidate. Well-run organizations, and the Braves are well-run, don’t let spring training exhibition games dictate who wins starting positions. So, yes, this was their likely plan at the start of camp. The real question is what is their long-term plan at SS and with Grissom.
Who’s the SS for the A’s?…
I dont agree with this move. Grisshom has potential to be one of the best hitters in the game. Hope they don’t give him the Andujar treatment and ruin his confidence
Many said it on here, guys with options. Roster shuffle and manipulation. We still have a good team. No one was counting on Grissom to light it up and completely fill Swanson’s shoes. People also forget about Albies. He needs to remain healthy and some of his production will replace the SS position. We got crap out of 2B last year because he was hurt. Don’t talk about that “cup of coffee” Grissom had the first 2 weeks either. He got exposed and overwhelmed and faded that’s why Arcia was out there. Go to Gwinnett and don’t pout and earn your way up by lightning up AAA. We will need more than just the 25 to get through a season.
I’m beginning to think the Braves have better players than my Red Sox.
Funny we all assumed they’d go with less experienced at SS (Grissom) and more experienced at SP5 (Anderson/Elder) but it ended up being the reverse.
What’s lost in all of this how much AA is empowering Ehire. He LOVES Ehire. I feel like Arcia is the new Dansby and Ehire is the new Arcia…and it feels like a bad idea.
Here is my take:
At AAA, they play Grissom at ss and Schumake at 2B. Why?
Because if Arcia is not hitting by mid-season, Grissom will take his place. When Grissom is called up, Schumake will slide to ss.
Grissom will be starting at ss or LF before the year is over. His bat plays.
Harris and Acuna have two OF spots.
Murphy and Arnaud are catcher and DH before Grissom comes up.
Riley and Olson are solid corners.
Schumake is insurance for MI. But Albies should be recovered.
This team looks very solid other than the pitching.
The pitching looks pretty good too. Fried if healthy is an ace. Strider is healthy may be an ace, but we need more time to be sure. Wright will regress big-time but he is a solid 4-5 starter at worst, maybe much better. Morton is on the decline but a fierce competitor. The youngsters competing for a #5 sot are both legit but maybe ready, maybe not. Soroka is just gravy if he makes it back, which I don’t count on. Iglesias, Minter, this team is still the team to beat in the very dood division.
Dood = “good”
They might as well have signed Andrus if they were going to do this
Wrong call again angel
It’s manipulation, nothing more to it. Right now, Grissom is better than Arcia. Tomorrow, Grissom will still be better than Arcia.
What criteria are you looking at as “better”? Are you sure you’re in line with the Braves braintrust on that?
I’m reading the situation as either the Braves decisionmakers want more out of Grissom and Shewmaker and that the minor leagues are the place to get it from them; or that they see something in Arcia’s game that fans and media people don’t.
This is one of the proven top 5-6 organizations in MLB. By May 15 at the latest we’ll all know why they did what they did.
It ain’t because they see something in Arcia. He is a fringe major leaguer and far from an everyday SS.
Was it AA, Snitker, Washington, or a combination of them that you got your information from?
Pillar over Eli White is asinine as well
Pillar doesn’t have options, Eli does. Despite his ST AVG, read any interview with Snit/AA and they love his clubhouse presence and leadership, which will be an olive branch for only so long. Maybe he’ll teach Acuña how to take a beaning.
That face shot he took literally ruined that pitcher but he was begging to come back that next week. Stoked to have pillar on the team.
If my math is correct, we can expect to see Grissom up around June 1st. 54 days last year and approximately 117 days this year gives him just below 172.
Marinararivera + Tony Plush
I had a feeling and said a couple months ago that I thought they would give the job to arcia out of ST. I am a bit disappointed though.
Not as big as the Dodgers falloff from Turner to Rojas, but not too far behind going from Dansby to Arcia
Grissom’s defense is either terrible or he has some attitude problems
The Braves know what they are doing. If it’s service time great. It’s allowed. If he isn’t good enough that’s not good but if his bat plays he will find a home somewhere. Possible trade? Pirates would want either or both these guys for Reynolds. Just theories I seen mentioned. I would go with a combination of 1 and 2. Nothing to worry about. Braves are one of the 10 or so teams you should trust.
Because of how baffling this move is, it’s highly plausible that a TRADE IS IMMINENT.
Dumb moves by a usually smart team. Grissom earned the SS job. Arcia did not. Eli White earned a spot on the team. Rosario and Pillar did not.
Fred McGriff HR
Tell me when Arcia has let down the Braves. He deserves his chance well and truly. Grissom and Shewmake are still young, they will get their opportunities in due course.
Fred McGriff HR
Orlando deserves first crack at the job.
The guy just needs to be a little more consistent at the plate.
This will be Arcia’s 8th MLB season. At what point do we stop assuming he can still be the guy?
Fred McGriff HR
Why do you care about what the Braves are doing with their roster?
Grissom and Shewmake can get more seasoning and will get their opportunities at the right time. Throwing them in there now may have its upsides, but there is more downside to that if they don’t cope with the pressure of playing at the MLB level everyday. I’m comfortable with the decision, and the coaching staff must be too.
They know what/who Arcia is ( a guy who had average defense in 2022 playing mostly out-of-position at 2B due to Albies’ injury, while hitting 104 OPS+ or 4% better than average (fyi: Swanson hit 115 OPS+)). Will Arcia do that over 162-game season? No, but they’re not looking at him for that long. They still have questions about Grissom/Shewmake, who have options, and can’t afford to take those questions into a season, while they have a vet with a higher-floor on the roster. This team won’t be won or lost on if a guy hits average from the 8 or 9 spot. It will be if a SS is missing routine plays, extending innings, and making SPs labor through more pitches, from the most active defensive position (SS) on the field.
Beyond inane that ATL would do this move to avoid potentially losing EHIRE ADRIANZA, aka the man who couldn’t hack it in Washington last year so he had to go crawling back to Atlanta. Baffling. And O’Brien touting Arcia’s 104 OPS+ is silly. Everyone knows last season was largely poor for offense. That doesn’t make ORLANDO ARCIA, a man with a CAREER OPS+ of 75, a good player, much less deserving of a starting gig.
Fred McGriff HR
Different players play better for different teams. Jesse Chavez is just one example of that over the past few years. Adrianza has always played well for the Braves when given the opportunity, he’s also had some key and clutch hits in big situations for the Braves. He only had 97 AB’s for Washington in 2022, and why have you said that he is “crawling back to Atlanta because he couldn’t hack it in Washington” as you so respectfully put it? Adrianza has always been a good reliable player for the Braves, so I don’t see it as he is “crawling back” at all, in fact, I see it as AA giving the roster depth, as Adrianza can play all over the infield and give guys like Albies and Riley a day off whenever they need it. Experience counts.
At the plate, Adrianza had some memorable clutch hits for the Braves in 2021 and batted .342 (14-for-41) with runners in scoring position with three doubles, two homers, 25 RBIs and a .984 OPS., plus he’s also had a good spring training in 2023, last time I looked he was hitting .296 with a .960 OPS and OBP of .441, you can only do what you can do.
Backup Catcher to the Backup Catcher
Gotta give AA credit for winning a WS in 2021 with an 88-win team. However, AA likes to play smartest=guy=in-the-room, and this latest move is a real head scratcher.
But if the other eight hitters in the lineup perform as expected, Arcia playing SS and batting ninth won’t matter too much. Arcia is no Ozzie Smith, but is probably better at this point than Grissom.
With the Brewers, Arcia often made web gem worthy plays in the field. The knock against him defensively while with Milwaukee was that he didn’t make the routine play a lot of the times.
Arcia has shown both speed and modest pop at various times, so at 28 there’s a good chance he can do both this year as he’ll get regular PT for the first time in four years.
On the surface this isn’t a popular move on Peach St., but I don’t think it’s the disaster many are suggesting it is.
Biggest black marks on AA’s report card the past two off-seasons is letting clubhouse leaders like Freddie and Dansby move on. Braves elder statesman now is Charlie Morton. Tough for a player who only plays once every five days to be the de facto voice in the clubhouse.
Moot point. Braves and Mets should both make the playoffs, but the Phillies will win the NL East.
Fred McGriff HR
Backup Catcher to the Backup Catcher
“Biggest black marks on AA’s report card the past two off-seasons is letting clubhouse leaders like Freddie and Dansby move on. Braves elder statesman now is Charlie Morton. Tough for a player who only plays once every five days to be the de facto voice in the clubhouse”..
AA didn’t let anyone do anything.
Both had offers on the table, both had pens, both could have signed if they had wanted to, they didn’t. Freddie blamed his agent. Freddie had every opportunity to make it his business to be a Brave if he wanted to. Furthermore, he was warned by Chipper Jones. Swanson was also offered a contract, but didn’t sign it. I don’t know how you pin them leaving on AA. That’s a false take if ever I heard it.
I don’t have a crystal ball like you to say who will win the NL East, the Phillies certainly have a good roster, especially when Harper comes back with Turner and Realmuto in that lineup, but we will see what pans out.
Backup Catcher to the Backup Catcher
All AA had to do was give Freddie what he wanted and he’d still be a Brave. And when the Swanson signing dragged out because other FA shortstops were more desirable, AA should have seized the moment and signed Dansby.
Brave fans already miss Freeman and they’re gonna miss Dansby, too.
Fred McGriff HR
Nope, AA made an offer, if Freddie wanted to be a Brave he’d be a Brave. AA didn’t have to do anything, the offer was on the table. It’s like an invitation, if it means something to you don’t wait around, just do it.
Who misses Freddie or Dansby? It’s done.
I loved Freddie Freeman as a Brave, but he chose his destiny and has no one to blame but himself. I still like watching him play and respect him greatly, but his choice was of his own doing, nothing whatsoever to do with AA. Dansby also made his own choice and his own bed. If you really want to know, those two guys will regret it more than any fans do, because now they’re part of different organisations, different teammates, different feel, different fan bases, different nuances. Freddie and Dansby could have been Braves ‘lifers’, they chose otherwise.
@Fred McGriff I couldnt have said it better myself. It was ALL player greed
And that is why they are both gone!!
Dansby’s stiking out 40% of the time this spring with Chicago with only two hits!
Arcia will do better!!
Too bad Arcia consistently hits .220 and plays subpar defense to Dansby. Dansby might hit .070 for a month but he’ll hit .700 with 15hr the next month. Way higher floor and ceiling than arcia.
I was afraid of this happening. The Braves probably have the least productive short stop of any contender. We had the least productive left field position last season. While it seems difficult for that to repeat itself, we also should have some doubt that left field is going to be a strength.
I wish I could know how much service manipulation has to do with this.
You’re undervaluing defense. The offense is strong enough not to have depend solely on someone hitting average, especially with the DH (that takes away from the auto-out that a hitting-SP would represent). In limited play in 2022, Arcia hit 4% better than average (per OPS+ @ 104), which wasn’t too far from Swanson’s 115 OPS+. Sure, Swanson had a lot more ABs, but I don’t see Arcia as being the SS by the AS Break, especially since they need more bench depth behind Adrianza.
The idea of service time manipulation is hilarious considering both of these (Grissom, Shewmake) aren’t top prospects or viewing as anything more than long-term utility pieces. They don’t look like a franchise player that’ll be making a ton through arbitration to warrant manipulating their time. I hope I’m wrong, but this looks like Grissom needs more time on the farm for his defense.
Look bellow. I responded to you but not here by mistake.
Im not undervaluing defense. You’re overvaluing Arcia’s glove. He hasn’t posted a positive DRS since 2018. I’m also not overvaluing those prospects either because it isn’t difficult to be better than Arcia considering the small sample Arcia gave as well. That was the only season he finished with a positive OPS.
Additionally you are making to much of my last sentence that is a passing thought to the rest of the statement. But still, it could be that they saw something during their time that makes the FO want to be cautious with their service time.
Braves beat writer, Mark Bowman, had an article that touched on many of the position competition decisions will be based on who has options, citing the backup OF battle between Pillar/Hilliard and someone that has had a better ST: Eli White (plenty of options). Essentially, those with options need to play not only better, but substantially better than those without options, since they run the risk of losing those by having to place them on waivers. While Shewmake/Grissom would be a better duo than Arcia/Adrianza, imho, I don’t think they want to give-up on giving each guy an opportunity for regular play to make a final decision. Promoting both and only giving Shewmake sporadic ABs, using him as a utility player, seems inevitable, but also a waste, at least right now.
Of course, that all could be thrown out the door if Arcia misses routine plays and has a 50 OPS+ through the first 1.5 months, while Grissom/Shewmake continue from their strong springs.
I can only imagine optioning Shewmake and Grissom are service time manipulations. It’s not like all the MLB clubs don’t do it. It’s just harder now with the new contract to do it with the top rated prospects.
Do the Braves have a history of keeping a player down to manipulate service time in the past? Not being a Braves fan, I really don’t know. But to me that doesn’t seem to be the way they normally operate. I know they like to extend their guys early on so manipulating service time wouldn’t pay off if they were extended at some point.
The idea is to make the Post-Season musical chairs pitching exhibitions.
Mets lost Edwin Diaz for the season, assuring the Braves of either a first or second place finish in the division.
Whatever combination of names appear at SS probably won’t deny the Braves a slot in the Playoffs Crap Shoot.
Assured of 1st or 2nd because of no Díaz? That’s bold. They have David Robertson, who won’t be anywhere close Díaz, but in combo with another (Ottavino?, Raley?, FA: Britton?), could get the job done. They have the money and prospects to be able to get a bad team’s closer (PIT: Bednar, KC: Barlow, KC: Chapman, lol!, CIN: Alexis Díaz??) down the stretch, if it really is a problem.