Tyler O’Neill’s name was part of trade talks with the Marlins and other teams this winter, The Athletic’s Ken Rosenthal reports. Back in January, Rosenthal wrote that St. Louis had shown interest in the Marlins’ pitching, and since Miami was known to be looking for outfield help, it stands to reason that O’Neill was part of those discussions. No trade materialized between the two sides, of course, and it isn’t known if O’Neill was necessarily one of the Marlins’ top targets on the St. Louis roster, or if the Cards were more open to moving O’Neill than any of their outfielders.
Given all of the Cardinals’ outfield depth and the Marlins’ rotation depth, any number of names or potential trades could’ve been floated in negotiations — likewise, any team engaging the Cardinals in outfield-related trade talks might’ve had a few options in mind. While O’Neill was coming off a relative down year in 2022, that doesn’t mean rival clubs wouldn’t have still had trade interest, perhaps hoping to nab the two-time Gold Glover in a buy-low situation.
With this all in mind, Rosenthal wonders if O’Neill could potentially be tangled in trade talks again, perhaps in an outfielder-for-pitching swap similar to the deal that sent Harrison Bader to the Yankees for Jordan Montgomery at last year’s trade deadline. As The Athletic’s Levi Weaver noted, Bader was traded within a couple of months after Cardinals manager Oliver Marmol removed him mid-game for a perceived lack of effort. On Wednesday, O’Neill wasn’t in the Cards’ starting lineup, which Marmol publicly said was due to what the skipper felt was a lack of hustle on O’Neill’s part in running the bases in Tuesday’s game. O’Neill both denied that charge, and also wasn’t pleased that Marmol went public with the criticism.
It should be noted that O’Neill still appeared in Wednesday’s game as a pinch-hitter, and after Thursday’s off-day, O’Neill was back as the starting center fielder in the Cardinals’ 4-0 loss to the Brewers on Friday. Talking to Derrick Gould of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch and other reporters, Marmol said it was “one hundred percent” important to have O’Neill back in action, calling him “one of the most talented players in that clubhouse. There’s a next step for Tyler in his career, and my job is to get him there.”
The manager also explained his perspective on “holding someone accountable” as it related to his decision to call O’Neill out, saying “it’s your ability to sit down with a player before the lights come on before the stadium is packed and ask them what they want for themselves and what they want for the team. And allowing them to articulate that and then asking for permission to hold them to that. And when it doesn’t look right, you hold them to that.”
Beyond O’Neill’s return and the shutout loss, Friday’s game was also notable for what might be a significant injury to left-hander Packy Naughton. After pitching to three batters in his relief outing, Naughton left the game with what the club later described as forearm tightness. Goold wrote that Naughton was slated to have his left arm examined last night.
It seems like Naughton is headed for the injured list at the very least, and he and the team can only hope that a serious injury has been avoided. Naughton is just a few days shy of his 27th birthday, and he is in his third MLB season. St. Louis claimed Naughton off waivers from the Angels in March 2022, and his first season with the Cardinals saw Naughton post a 4.78 ERA over 32 innings, working mostly as a reliever.
In other injury news, Lars Nootbaar might be activated from the 10-day IL as early as Monday, since Marmol told MLB.com and other reporters that the club will wait to see how Nootbaar’s injured left thumb feels after batting practice. However, Nootbaar said that his thumb is more of an issue when trying to catch a ball or even when wearing a glove, moreso than any pain caused by taking swings.
Adam Wainwright is on the 15-day IL recovering from a groin strain, and is slated for his second 28-pitch bullpen session on Sunday. If all goes well, Wainwright might throw more pitches in another bullpen tentatively scheduled for Wednesday, and a minor league rehab outing could then follow in the coming days.
“Bader was traded within a couple of months after Cardinals manager Oliver Marmol removed him mid-game for a perceived lack of effort.”
When will Marbol be removed for perceived lack of clues?
Has he lost his marbols?
Yes. If he ever had them.
Schilt/Shildt was a good skipper. Moz is like Cashman… Neither would cop to a mistake, and both want ‘yes’ men in the dugout and front office.
Harrison Bader and “perceived lack of effort…” The Cards are going to run out of players to trade very soon.
Other than what I’ve read here, I know nothing at all about Oliver Marmol, so this is definitely a hot take on my part – he sounds like an absolute dick to me.
I don’t know that much either. I know Harrison Bader, while limited in talent, leaves it all on the field. The fact that the same skipper has called out two young hard charging players speaks to a pattern. Not a good one.
Maybe someone here has already brought this up. I saw a number of times last year where Molina and even Pujols were not hustling. Didn’t see them called out and never would have seen it publically if they were. Granted. They are franchise icons, future HOFers and just a tad bit older. I’ve always liked Oneill’s balls to the walls style of play. Something is just not right with this. I’d also be pissed if I was him. Thank god Marmol doesn”t have Machado on his team. That would be some real fireworks.
The St Louis cardinals have the same record as the Oakland A’s and the only teams keeping them from being the rock bottom in all of baseball are the Nats and Royals.
It’s also 7 games into the season. Pipe down genius.
You’re right. Plenty of time for the Royals and Nats to catch them.
You haven’t seen the Tigers in action this year, have you?
When is Marmol going to call out his pitching staff.
Well the Cards got shutout yesterday. You can’t win a 0-0 tie. I wasn’t aware of Marbol calling out Bader. I see a pattern here, and not a good one. Who’s the next guy getting tossed under the bus? Maybe guys looking over their shoulders?
There’s not enough there for a decent staff infection.
The 3rd base coach is the one who needs to be called out
Funny thing, I remember him replacing Mike Shildt at AA Springfield. When the Cardinals hired Mike Matheny over Chris Maloney, Shildt and Warner, I thought that sent a crappy message to the minor league brain trust. They developed most of the 2011 WC team. I saw every homegrown come up through Springfield. They did an excellent job. Yet only Maloney even got a taste of big league ball for years.
The St Louis Cardinals had chosen the wrong manager. Went with a rookie less costly then the manager genius sitting at home.
Joe Madden and pitching coach Don Cooper.
When will clubs start to learn go cheap and lose.
Madden is no genius.
Name me a other manager alive that lead the Chicago Cubs to a world series and won it.
Well we’re waiting
Madden was good at giving confidence to young players like the Cubs had (he did the same in Tampa) but who walks home a run intentionally that is sane?
Joe took two teams that never had win on everyday bases and turn them around and won with both of them.
Sure some moves do not work or my look odd but look at his record with both Tampa Bay & Chicago Cubs.
You’re waiting. Keep waiting.
Another 108 years.
Tampa Bay franchise only started 8 years before Madden became manager. First 8 years of being a winner is not normal. Do the Rays miss him? No way
Hang on. We’re still trying to dig up Frank Chance and prop him up.
The Cubs Tinkered for Ever, with no Chance of winning.
@Rantucky, the Marlins and DBacks have something to say about what is normal for newer teams winning….
This is Madden ing……
It’s MADDON guys!
Yessir. Madden (BOOM!) passed away sadly. Maddon is the baseball guy. Not my fav skipper, but he was scapegoated in Anaheim.
@Tigers3232, normal is the normal average. Not cherry-picking 2 abnormally good beginnings
@Rantucky, 3 of the 4 most recent expansion teams have had success. So yes in modern expansion success has been the norm.
Maddon is a good manager for sure, but both Tampa and Chicago also both offered him good resources. Tampa with their scouting and Chicago with their money. Tampa did such a good job scouting and drafting, and still have, which is why they were good with him and have been good without him. Chicago had a good core of younger players when he arrived coupled with the money to bring in the pieces they were missing.
But I think his time with Anaheim showed that he wasn’t necessarily the driving force of what led his previous teams to victory. While he definitely had some pieces needed, he still had enough there to where he should’ve been able to do better than he did.
I think Tampa Bay & the Cubs won in spite of Madden, not because of him. If the Cardinals had hired Bruce Bochy, I’d consider them World Series contenders, right now.
Well, the Angels may have the closest thing to a modern Ruth/Gehrig duo. Not being able to have ANY kind of success with that jas been jarring to watch.
As a Cubs fan, I would absolutely love to have the Cardinals hire Maddon and Dandy Don Cooper.
I think the trade choices have more to do with the least number of controlable years left and the specific needs of the trade partner. The Cardinals needed pitching. Bader was the only player the Cardinals had who was of interest to the Yankees. He was also the expendable player who is a free agent at the end of this year.
O’Neill now has the least number of years left before becoming expensive. Of course he’s the one the Cardinals would rather move. The odds are Edman or Donovan will be traded at some point. That is more likely after the season than mid season. Room has to be made for Winn. Donovan is under control until after 2028. Edman is a free agent after 2025. That makes Edman more expendable. It’s how small market teams operate.
Conspirasy theories are everywhere. Yes personality conflicts can cause trades. It’s not the norm. Professional adults don’t have to like each other to work together.
“Professional adults don’t have to like each other to work together.”
In theory, you’re correct. But in practice, I believe Gerardi lost his Yankees job due to personal conflicts with both Cashman and Gary Sanchez. I believe front office suits now hire ‘yes men’ as managers, specifically to avoid personality differences… results be damned.
Girardi lost his job in Miami for basically the same reason
True. He won MOY and got canned by Jeffrey the idiot Loria, same season!
He had the Marlins in contention with a team payroll less than A-Rod’s.
Edmond won’t fetch you much. The Cardinals got a steal in Montgomery because Bader has never been good. The Yankees had a deal in place to get a Pablo Lopez at the dead line last year and needed to make space so they dealt Montomgery for whatever they could get before the ink dried on the deal with Miami. Then Miami changed their minds and it was too late to cancel the Bader deal. And the Cardinals are not a small market team. They have one of the biggest territory rights in all of baseball.
Edman had a higher WAR than Dansby Swanson last year. He was the 13th most valuable player in both leagues. I think Edman would bring back something nice.
What are territory rights? I’ve never heard of them in baseball.
Ever heard of blackout? Each team has exclusive TV and Radio broadcasting rights over areas that don’t have teams if there own. You can pick up Carindinal games on various radio stations almost all the way to Indianapolis and south of Saint Louis almost all the way to Texas. And a lot of the residents in their area make the Mecca to Busch stadium at least once a summer. It’s a huge reason they sell so many tickets every year. News media size and metropolitan population is far from a complete picture of baseball economics.
People come from eight states to Busch Stadium. Some pass Kauffman Stadium in KC to do so.
Winn has a lot of maturing to do. I watched him in AAA yesterday. 1 error and 0-4 with bad at bats. Also he wouldn’t acknowledge the kids. One of the only players that didn’t engage the fans. Not that he has too but shows his mindset. He needs to lose. Up and have fun.
Without getting too deep into it, from the outside looking in, I have O’Neills back on this one. Marmol is in his 2nd week of managing, and O’Neill is a hard working, passionate kid.
I don’t have any problem with Ollie having a problem with O’Neill sand bagging it; whether he was or not isn’t the question. But once you make it public, you’re actively crossing a line, calling attention to the situation. Hope he’s ready for that. Sounds like he wants all the smoke
I don’t think it was sandbagging that caused the conflict. I think it’s because O’Neill was looking back over his shoulder while rounding third instead of running as the third base coach was telling him. Odds are he’s out at home either way. I have to wonder if there have been other incidents of O’Neill not trusting the coaches. I believe there’s more to this story than one incident. It may also have to do with setting a bad example for the large number of first and second year players on the team.
The coach is just that – the coach. The baserunner is tasked with actually running the bases. In that situation, trying to score was idiotic. O’Neill was placed in a no-win situation.
Have you ever played organized baseball? The third base coach decides whether you should run through third base. The runner has no business watching the play or making running decisions.
Yes. I have. As a base-runner I always held the final responsibility for how I ran the bases. I always made running decisions. The only decision that was unimpeachable was if the head coach/skipper put up a stop sign on a steal attempt.
Casey Stengel used to TEACH runners to look around as they ran the bases. So did a few of his pupils, like Mickey Mantle. Joe Morgan also looked for the ball himself. I’ll take their advice over yours, buddy.
Is it possible the game has changed since Mantle and Morgan?
Is it possible Mantle and Morgan knew what they were doing? Or are you advocating that Pop Warner and Ollie know more?
It’s still 90 feet between bases. It’s still the runner’s against fieldwrs. Hasn’t changed that much. Sending O’Neill in that situation was stupid.
Then, now, and forever.
It’s not my advice. It’s the way the game has been played for decades. I had a friend named Buddy. He’s not me.
We’ll have to agree to disagree.
I agree with Stengel, Morgan, Mantle and others. You agree with whoever/whomever you want, okay friend?
Do you agree with Pop Warner sending him there?
I believe it was Pop Warner’s call to make which is exactly what Marmol said. Warner is on the hot seat if O’Neill runs without hesitating and is thrown out. O’Neill didn’t trust the team member he has to trust. That’s the entire crux of this issue.
The Cardinals are always very aggressive on the base paths. It helps them more than it hurts them. This time they would have lost because Acuna made a perfect throw. Players rarely make perfect throws home from that distance. It’s a gamble that doesn’t always pay off.
The situation called for ONeill holding up imho. That one run meant far less than that out did. Rally killer. Imho.
In my opinion, Marmol or Warner asks ONeill his thought process. If they think it’s skewered, they address it. And certainly not in the press.
No longer privy to the daily goings on of the Cardinals (since my relocation from Mizzou) I don’t know if Marmol amd ONeill have a ‘history’ that brings more to bear than one base-running misadventure.
Couldn’t agree more with all of this. Maybe he needs calling out but not publicly.
Once you’ve made it public, there’s virtually no going back. If Marmol tried that crap with Arenado or Goldy, he’d be excommunicated.
Bader or Montgomery
Cards win that one
I’m a Yankee fan.
And I approve that message.
I do agree it was bush league of Marmol to air dirty laundry to the press…..
For me, there’s something about the way this young man carries himself. Dudes got some strut. That has me thinking the calling out is not about the running incident in isolation. But yeah, keeping it in house would seem a more prudent course of action.
Marmol thinks very highly of himself. He has a lot to learn about managing people. I know because I was the same way at his age. You can’t be so rigid. You don’t have to keep telling people what you think and where you draw the line. Let your actions speak for themselves. Everyone will appreciate it more. Once you lose the respect of those you’re managing, it’s over.
Damn, watching Oneill’s value absolutely plummet is starting to make me feel bad.
This year’s deadline deal should be made with the Angels. Cards sending O’Neill and Marmol to LAA for Benji Gil. That’s a win-win if I ever heard one.
I listen to Angels games. Make that trade!
No worries, Cards fans, our almost 42 year old savior, who can barely throw 90 mph on a good day, will soon be back to put our club on the right track.
Heh heh heh
HEH HEH HEHEHE HEH!
Hey, if loving Waino’s wrong, I don’t wanna be Wright!
He’s definitely a hard guy not to like at the personal level, but I’m ready for him to move on.. btw, great to see you around, bronx, it’s been a minute!
Thought I remembered you from the MLB thread days! You, the ladies, thatsawnr, all the gang. Good to see u too, dig!
Do you think Pop Warner was right to have ONeill diggin4home?
No, it was a terrible decision. I can’t imagine why anyone would’ve thought O’Neill had a chance. I also don’t like the way Marmol treated T.O. when the real issue was clearly Warner’s fault. By the way, I miss the official
comment boards and the common visitors very much. I wish MLB would bring them back, but I doubt it ever will.
I agree with O’Neill, and you. Maybe if it’s a tie game with two out. If ONeill gets a great jump. If someone juggles the ball. If.
There is a lot of over-reaction on this thread and in this article. 57 has it right. Of course, O’Neill is the outfielder the Cards would prefer to trade. That was true before any perceived rift with Marmol. Walker and Burleson have been playing regularly and haven’t done anything to lose playing time. Noot will be back soon, and Carlson has played well enough to start regularly. Trading O’Neill makes sense, and I don’t say that lightly because I agree with Marmol when he said that O’Neill is one of the most talented guys in that clubhouse.
However, there is no need to do anything today. It’s been a bad week. The Brewers are hot and building a solid lead. The starting pitching has struggled. But it’s APRIL. No need to panic. The starters need to be more aggressive and stop pitching from behind in the count. The hitters need to be more willing to take a walk. But these are slight adjustments that can be made. All the pitchers look healthy and their stuff looks like it did when they were successful in the past. They will come around. The hitters have been hitting the ball very hard with regularity. The runs will come. The wins will come.
The wins will come and there is plenty of time, but one player who should be just about out of time is Hicks. He’s not making adjustments and hasn’t for quite a while now. He should be in AAA until he decides to pitch rather than throw because he’s not fooling anyone he’s facing.
Hicks has been extremely overrated (in my opinion) the entire time he’s been here.
Totally agree, no command of the zone. Throwing 103+ as a ball is the same as me throwing a ball at 55mph.
People are enamored with speed. 100mph, etc. Highly overrated and in a lot of cases, counterproductive.
That’s funny. Two teams with Hicks problems.
Are you watching the same games I am or are you watching replays of previous years? They aren’t hitting the ball hard. They are averaging almost a negative launch angle. Carlsons bits are all soft ground balls, he is not playing well. The last thing they need is to take more walks. All they do is hit singles, that’s slightly better than walks. Getting Nootbaar back will definitely increase the walks, that’s pretty much all he does, so when he’s back the move overrated player in baseball is not going to make a positive difference. And yes, as I type this I am aware they hit a couple HRs in tonight’s game.
And before you tell me how hard Carlson is hitting the ball, his average exit velocity in his 4 hits is in the low 80s
Ok. You’re right. Like always.
“tangled in trade talks”? Or dangled?
I don’t blame O’Neal, Pop or Mo for the Cardinals poor start. I blame DeWitt. Dude is the 7th richest MLB owner worth $4B, how about spend a fraction of that on quality starting pitching. We need a playoff rotation to match our hitting and defensive depth. Come on dude get with the program and quit pinching pennies.
The owners personal wealth has absolutely zero to do with how they allow their business to run. Now that, that is out of way, I don’t disagree with your view on spending. The business has plenty of money to spend. It I think that decision starts and stops with Mozalak, I don’t think Mr. Cincinnati DeWitt is keeping the safe closed.
I love how owners always say “it’s a business decision”. Truth is these billionaires have a day job that made them wealthy, and having an MLB team is their hobby. #funnymoney
Canary in the coal mine. Marmol sees what is coming. He’s just trying to lay the groundwork for his shaggy defense when the deciders perform the autopsy on the season.
If he keeps this crap up, I’d think he’d be toast by the AS break. Then again, as a Yankee fan, I watched when Gerardi, who’d just took a young team to the brink of the World Series, get replaced by an ESPN color clown with zero managing experience. A yes man. And he’s somehow still there.
Yes men sometimes flourish. Until they don’t.
A couple of old Cardinal flames suiting up for the Pads, MattCarp and Wacha. Carp was Superman for the Yankees last year.
That Walker kid.
I read Oli Marmal has already lost the clubhouse, I thought he was doing a good job
“Run, Tyler! Run!”
First—- Bader, (Of all Players!!)—- is benched for not Hustling. (Ha! That was a joke!). Marmal immediately throws him under the bus to the Media. Then, just like that he’s traded and the Cards are still trying to replace Bader.
Now Tyler O’Neal is accused of non-hustle. Marmal throws O’Neal under the bus to the Media!!
Who’s Next? I’m sure the Cardinals players are thinking the same thing!!!!!
So the next step will be——-
O’Neal will be traded.
My Opinion of Marmol has gone from—- Give him a chance, to
Fire him and get some life back to this team!!